a deep dive into villain characters

[@elanorly1505]

Catchier name for "villain-is-the-only-one-that-is-willing-to-teach-the-mc-to-reach-their-true-potential" trope: Menacing Mentorship.

[@saskia5644]

Or 'I can show you'

[@morganakanan8204]

love it!

[@marinKem]

@@saskia5644 sounds a bit sus

[@winterillust]

that's just mob psycho 100.

[@alexia6685]

AARON WARNER

[@charlesbackstrom6571]

oh! a villain trope i love so much is when the hero and villain have to spontaneously team up in the middle of a fight because something worse happened

[@catdownthestreet]

OMG I NEED TO GO WRITE THIS TROPE _RIGHT NOW_

[@alma3468]

i’m a bit late, but do you (or anyone else) have recommendations for this trope?

[@charlesbackstrom6571]

@@alma3468 in a way, except the protagonist is the villain people have to team up with. "shadow of the conqueror" by shad brooks. the protagonist is a deposed dictator whos given a second chance at life to make things right but no one knows its actual him because he looks different. its very good if you also like a really muddy path to redemption.

[@megan88]

@@alma3468 Movie Sinbad legend if the seven seas- the beginning. also clocks friends to enemies and a redemption

[@SnailHatan]

@@alma3468Pirates of the Caribbean movies 2-3 I believe. Great villain-turned-partner but I won’t spoil which character it is.

[@anniekr184]

I think the 'complex backstory: yes or no?'-question depends on the genre quite a bit. We all love the iconic villains of renaissance era Disney (Scar, Ursula, Gaston) not because of their tragic past, but because they have such a menacing presence and are just having a lot of fun being evil. In those cases, adding a tragic backstory will do the story more harm than good. A good example is the Cruella live action movie, in which it's explained that Cruella's mom (or someone else, i don't remember) was killed by dalmatians. We don't really need a tragic backstory for the puppy skinning villain. Of course there are exceptions, Frollo being one of my favourite Disney villains because of his complexity, but it's fair to say that different genres will lead to different answers to the question.

[@pottertheavenger1363]

Except the live action cruella wasn't evil, just an anti-villian. This version isn't skinning dogs, just pretending she does.

[@hijabiloser313]

I find ur insight intriuging. I'd love to analyze more on the impact that different genres have on villains as well as how different intended audiences can impact it as well because when it all boils down, we love diff villains for diff reasons and they r plenty of factors that can change how we perceive things

[@kingofhearts3185]

​@@hijabiloser313 8t also depends on what type of villain. To use star Wars as an example, Palpatine doesn't need a personal backstory to work, just his rise to power. But Vader's backstory makes his redemption more impactful.

[@SuvuIC]

In Arcane, I love the combination of getting the explanation and backstory of how Jinx became the villain she is. While we at the same time accept that she also is quite crazy and "evil" just because she's unhinged.

[@swordigosung994]

@@kingofhearts3185 But don't you like to know more about the tell of Darth Plagueis the wise?

[@sanaoswal8790]

I also love characters who are technically nemeses but also have like a chill best friend/ah my old friend vibe like perry the platypus and dr. doofenshmirtz or jake peralta and doug judy or professor x and magneto. (p.s. loved the video!!! also i continue to be in love with your earring collection! obsessed with the howl earrings)

[@TheBookLeo]

yesss i agree!

[@ChemicalPenguinn]

jake peralta and doug judy are a pretty iconic duo to be honest

[@Firemast]

This is actually a trope called Enemy Mine.

[@faeryeclair]

perry and dr doofenshmirtz relationship was always so great, it's 🔛🔝

[@LucyHabecker-kn2fm]

Yes idk if anybody has ever read the book series lupin but that totally has that vibe

[@indigo92099]

The trope of the villain being the only one who is willing to assist the main character in reaching their full potential is reminding me a lot of Hannibal and Will, or of Erik of Phantom of the Opera. Love the trope, too!

[@user_2793]

Hannibal was interesting in the show, I hope it gets a proper conclusion.

[@Cephalgia-uk7iw]

Anton Chigurh from No Country For Old Men is a great villain who is "evil for no reason". We don't know his backstory and his motivations aren't clear, but this is a big part of why he's so scary - it's the fear of the unknown because we just can't fathom why he does what he does, and makes him inhuman to the point where you almost feel like he's not even a human but some kind of a personification of evil

[@jamesduggan7200]

Yes, Chigurh stole the show in that movie. A more typical Russian 'evil for no reason' is in the Jack Reacher movie, the first one, starring Tom Cruise. They provide a backstory that helps bing some sympathy for him but in the end he's just too unambiguously bad to give him the benefit of any doubts. Another one of that mold is in the Denzel Washington movie, The Equalizer. In the Keanu Reeves movies - the name escapes me - that type of villain is featured but without the same intensity.

[@beeeater9722]

The third female villain trope is where her whole personality is being in love with the male lead lol

[@malublue1013]

misa from death note lol

[@basement_gremlin2577]

@@malublue1013she’s not really villain tho, is she?

[@Challenger-pi2vm]

Shout out to every cdrama love rival ever

[@soaber]

@@basement_gremlin2577 She’s a villain, just not an antagonist.

[@malublue1013]

@@basement_gremlin2577 considering how her morals are very questionable and her only motivation is self gain (light's affection) i would consider her a bad person/villain.

[@ChemicalPenguinn]

If you like David Tennant you'll probably like Good Omens (both a book and a TV show). It kind of fits the villain theme because he plays a literal demon who develops the most heart-warming friendship with an angel as they both try and avert the apocalypse.

[@vanrir6866]

Good Omens is such a cool show with so many interesting character dynamics, cool to see it mentioned here

[@Aigra]

I see Crowley as a failed villain. Humanity doesn't really need him to do bad things. Like when he gets some type of promotion from hell for an inquisition he didn't even know about ... and of course, being friends with an angel doesn't help either.

[@smaragdapapadopoulou7807]

We don't care if there's already a female-villain-vid from someone else, WE NEED IT FROM YOUUU 😭

[@priscillacosta1307]

I just rewatched an anime called Monster and it's a masterclass in storytelling and the whole dynamics between heroes and villains, highly recommend!

[@sapphiree6872]

A build up of how the villain’s greed and desires, shape them to who they are is always compelling. President Snow is an example of this as he wasn’t this maniacal evil in the beginning but his professor brought out the worst in him.

[@erikaconley1175]

I read Vicious and Vengeful literally right after I watched this video when it came out, due to my friend recommending it but not saying it was a FRIENDS TO ENEMIES??? HELLO?? So immediately i read the series and like. it was fantastic and I’m never going to get over it. I loved that both protagonists were so blatantly horrible people, and I just found myself loving Eli so much. Eli and Victor’s dynamic was also just. chefs kiss. Best thing ever.

[@seaweedbren]

I SWEAR ON MY LIFE I HAVE NEVER CLICKED A VIDEO THIS FAST

[@bookswithlau]

Same here ✨

[@rivendells_shona]

I think Collins mastered the “explanation but not excuse” with Snow’s backstory in A Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. She found that perfect mix of privilege/entitlement and genuine childhood trauma to plant the seed of his hatred; then added the influence of groomers to nurture his choices. He still had agency in his choices, but works as a fair warning. It also underscored how he and Katniss really were two sides of the same coin; and added to the “punch” of him contributing to her ultimate choice to reject the process. In no way does this redeem him, but together Snow and Katniss serve as a warning for all of us about how we allow ourselves to be influenced when we are vulnerable.

[@chantal2382]

I can really recommend "Moriarty the patriot" It's a retelling of the Holmes universe and has the arch-enemy, explanations, equality tropes and the psychology around the moriarty BROTHERS is just amazing.

[@booknerd369]

I feel like Darth Vader is one of the greatest villains of all time. He’s got backstory, is kind of an ass by himself (as Anakin), he’s got a specific goal that made him the way he is (saving Padmé), and he has a redemption arc. Absolutely perfect combination for me Edit: oh also he was totally being groomed for villainy by Palpatine his entire life so the cards are stacked against him

[@byzoemay]

Vader will always be the perfect image of the best kind of villain for me. Like you said, his backstory, motivation, fall, power, manipulation, redemption,... it all just comes together so well.

[@lezeltunbridge7509]

If only I could show ALL your videos to my high school students and tell them "THIS is how you construct a decent essay with a proper intro, conclusion and examples of evidence!! Now do this on paper!!" What the heck... I might as well try. 😆

[@Priya44888]

The villain teaching the mc to reach their full potential is fully the shatter me trope lol

[@moonstone___]

spike from buffy the vampire slayer will forever be one of the best villains for me, and that’s absolutely the best enemies to lovers story. his backstory wasn’t originally planned because he wasn’t meant to stay around as long as he did, but even from his introduction he’s already a layered and interesting bad guy who really shifts your perspective of evil. the backstory they weave in layer makes perfect sense. he’s a foil to buffy but so much more too. he’s a mirror, as she is for him, and every moment of their dynamic is so crunchy and endlessly compelling.

[@strawberriestastegood]

This isn’t niche at all but Light Yagami from Death Note is an excellent villain protagonist.

[@janospillinger3233]

​ @The Book Leo I am sure you already seen this anime, but I also wanted to recommend Death Note just in case.

[@strawberriestastegood]

@@janospillinger3233 Yes, I have! Thank you!

[@cblooms]

Catra has one of the best redemption arcs and it's extremely underrated, I would even dare to compare it to zuko's

[@Zivilin]

Still need to watch the She-Ra show. My example for a good redemption arc is Faith from Buffy/Angel.

[@arieldamian2248]

I am unapologetically in love with Hannibal Lecter 😂 also he has a lot of those tropes you mentioned at first going on with Will. Like, he wants to guide him and help him reach his true potential, of course that potential is being as savage and flamboyant a killer as himself 😂😂😂 but he is the only one that gets his dark side. He also has the “for me it was just tuesday” thing with everything he does to him to “help him along” in getting there

[@alyssavon5246]

Oh my goodness, Shades of Magic, The villains series, Babel, The hunger games? I live these books, and I love that you do to.

[@anikellermann2338]

I'm obsessed with the new content, Leonie! I could listen to you talk for literal hours about ANYTHING, and even more so when it comes to your nuanced and interesting takes.

[@SeashellMerchant]

One of the best villains I have seen recently is Black Jack from Outlander (the tv show). He is just despicable in every single way. Even in some scenes when you think there could be a drop of humanity in him, he defies your expectations and does something absolutely horrifying. The same actor who plays the villain Black Jack plays Frank, the protagonist’s kind and loving husband who just completely foils Black Jack. I won’t even talk about what he does to Jamie, he’s so freaking sick.

[@TinyGhosty]

OMG if you feel like doing a video on all the villains from Legend of Korra I would be eager to watch it! The villains are all so interesting in different ways. It would also be interesting to hear your thoughts on most of the characters from the show! Tenzin's family is probably my favorite and my absolute fave is Bolin💜

[@spalanai]

i highly recommend the loki series. it literally has the trope of ‘for me, it was tuesday’

[@atlasavian4377]

Omg yess one of my favourites

[@bookswithlau]

Your discussion videos are the best!! I think my favorite villain is Silco (arcane) because his arc was amazing. But Eli from Vicious and Ayt Mada from Green Bone Saga are really good too. Eli because he genuinely thinks he's the good one of the story and for everything you said about him having a common past with Victor and being both morally grey. Ayt Mada because the author (Fonda Lee) made her in a way that she could have been the heroine had the story been told from her perspective.

[@chokofilter]

My favorite villain (he's not completely a villain but) is from an anime/manga called Bungou Stray Dogs. It's about classic authors with superpowers searching for a magical book that can alter reality. The main character is an orphan kicked out of his orphanage and later he joins a Detective Agency and we watch him as he grows. Most of the characters in the anime/manga have tragic backstories, but the plot deals with abuse, trauma, and morally gray characters very well. The "arch-enemy" (Akutagawa) of the protagonist (Atsushi) is a mafia member, who is, morally, the complete opposite of him and they hate each other's guts at first. They have this "we have to work together to defeat the enemy", and "I'm rooting for you aggressively so you can be better" kind of relationship. They both grew up in environments that made them who they are, so different yet so similar personalities. Though the writing has a bit problems i highly recommend reading the manga for anyone who wants to read about a story about trauma in a world of superpowers

[@anionictrash4414]

Such a fun video! Enemy being the only one willing to teach MC immediately made me think of Chancellor Palpatine and Anakin Skywalker from Star Wars. Palpatine doesn't start off as a known villain and he perfectly manipulates Anakin, who feels frustration with the jedi council and their rigid ways, to come to the dark side by teaching him how to use the power within him that the jedi refuse to acknowledge.

[@elleryrogowsky]

The false prince has a great villain. I would recommend it, there just so many layers and plot twists and like- I don't want to spoil it, you should just read it

[@Catacombz1]

I don't know what one I really like is called, but I enjoy when the protagonist or "good guy" you were supposed to be rooting for all for the whole time turns out to be the bad guy. Like there is a plot twist at the end that completely throws off the good guy/bad guy dynamic. Maybe not the best example of it but it's the first one that springs to mind because I finished reading it like 2 days ago is in Rock Paper Scissors by Alice Feeney.

[@duckii1703]

I have two protagonists and one of them is the villain. It explores both of their internal struggles (they are also introduced as siblings from the start) and the fact that the villain just wants to experience the fun and growth of the childhood he never had as his sister kind of took that away from him. It also explores his sister coming to terms with the fact that she has been way too controlling

[@catarinathebookworm]

Villains are so complex and make the story so compelling! I live for a good villain in a story

[@devanandasanspillai]

One of my favorite characters has one of the most beautiful redemption arc I've ever seen... It is definitely Loki💚. He starts as a villain and then becomes something like an anti-hero... Now he's like one of the most loved characters in the entire MCU..

[@elisabethp3699]

I really love your video essays! I like your style of telling, the editing, the topics, I also really like the lenghts of them (even though I think my attention span is getting worse from TikTok 😂)

[@captaincyoomin]

I like how in Daredevil season one, we spend plenty of time with Kingpin seeing what a hopeless romantic he is

[@foundtheplott]

I don’t know if this is a trope, but I love the good guy turned (momentarily) villain storyline (due to trauma of some sort). I’m thinking of Willow becoming Dark Willow in season six of Buffy the vampire slayer after her girlfriend was murdered. It’s extremely frustrating and painful to see someone good and innocent crossing over to the dark side, but it also makes for interesting character building. I love it when shows/books can evoke intense emotions in me. I love feeling ALL of the feels, even the ‘bad’ ones, and I definitely feel like this specific ‘trope’ just does something unmatched. I almost wish we got to see Alina go down that route. I think that would’ve made her character a lot more interesting and layered. Make her do really heinous stuff that makes you wonder if there’s even a way to come back from that and then give her an epic redemption arc. I felt like Leigh Bardugo was trying to do something like that with Alina by giving her a taste of merzost, of power, but it didn’t go anywhere impactful while there was so much potential for Alina to be this badass character. Also, unrelated, but I wish the Darkling and her had actual, meaningful, intimate time together instead of the rare instances they interacted. I wish he would’ve whisked her away from everything and everyone, made her into a monster, maybe even make him grow to fear her. If anyone knows what I’m talking about and knows some good recommendations with this type of ‘trope’, let me know!

[@jamesduggan7200]

Yes, tho I do sometimes wonder when it was dreamt up that Willow would turn villain. Her character arc in the series was both edgy and believable.

[@j.gillette5411]

Emet-Selch from Final Fantasy 14 is one of the best villains of all time. Tragic backstory, noble goal, foil to the hero, alien morality. He's powerful, charismatic, and he wants the hero to succeed.

[@Haexxchen]

22:00 You want to read the Nevermoor Series by Jessica Townsend. Officially they are children's books. My 60 year old mom and I love it. The whole life of the MC is basically a villain arc, that is holding on by a gossamer thin thread to not happen to her and a huge influence is the only living man with the same powers as her. And any other detail REALLY is a spoiler in this case.

[@weh_jee]

"no mr. bond, i expect you to dine" reminds me so much of Moriarty the Patriot anime/manga, and i think you'll like it!!

[@brigiish]

One of the many reasons why I love Partials trilogy by Dan Wells, that it’s kind of full of villains, yet it’s not. What is that trope? People that did things that make us look at them like they’re the villains, but they’re not really big mean people just trying to survive and live however they can?

[@tabbysilberman7446]

my favourite example of "villain-is-the-only-one-that-is-willing-to-teach-the-mc-to-reach-their-true-potential" is the villain from the nevermoor series bc he's that but if she doesn't let him train her he can mind control her. so she has to agree to learn for her own safety. he's also really interesting when it comes to backstory because most of what we know at the moment is very vague and it makes you wonder what happened to him to make him like this. i can't wait for the next book.

[@imhistory93]

I love Regina's redemption arc in Once Upon A Time and that she never wanted to be evil in the first place, one of my favourite scenes in the whole show is when she fires an enchanted arrow to lead her to the person she hates the most thinking it will lead her to Snow White but it leads her to a mirror and shows her her own reflection 💔

[@astralvelocity]

A great example of the anti-villain trope is in Jojo Part 7: Steel Ball Run with antagonists Funny Valentine and Diego Brando! Valentine has an especially noble reason for opposing the protagonist (for the good of America) and Diego doesn't even really oppose the protagonist, only doing so if he gets in the way of Diego's goal of fame and wealth. Very cool, very well developed side characters and "villains", Jojo is always a good reading recommendation :D

[@jorgerangel2390]

The best villians are the ones that have reasons that are understandable but not excusable, agreed

[@mondayswithfran]

This video is super exciting, and I used it also to inspire my writing now. I'm super in love with the villains and villains to lovers trope in City of Brass. It's just such a good one!

[@chancecomic1595]

I think the most important element of a villain, maybe even more than backstory, is presentation. How they're perceived by other characters, how they act under different situations, how they're going about their master plan, etc. A villain doesn't need to have an ultimate moral grey motivation or a super deep well thought out backstory if they're just super fun or menacing or interesting to read or watch. Things like some Disney villains (Scar, Captain Pete, Ursula, Dr. Facilier, etc.), Emperor Belos from Owl House, The Beast from Over the Garden Wall, GLaDOS and Wheatley from Portal 1 and 2, Gravemind and the Flood from Halo, Trazyn the Infinite and Nagash from Warhammer, etc. I could go on (And I will). Sometimes all a good villain needs to be is intimidating, scary, cool, and/or fun/funny. And it's nice to see a villain be _really_ good at their job, and/or being a maniacal dickhead. A fantastic example of this kind of villain is The Distortion (Both Michael and Helen) from The Magnus Archives. Despite their motivation literally being "It's just what you are", they steal the show every time they're on tape. They're just so much fun to listen to, it fills you with joy. Sato from Ajin and the Major from Hellsing are also stick out examples, because their respective motivations are "I got bored" and "I love war", but _god damn_ , they're so fun to watch

[@sveadezember403]

Jessica Townsend Wundersmith, Nevermoor series... some Menacing Mentoring, morally grey hero and a really strange system of values and believes.

[@skylarwood1163]

One of my favorite tropes is when the protagonist IS the antagonists villain arc- like the villain became a villain BECAUSE of the hero, before or after the hero becomes the hero. Also I want to see more hero arcs! We all know villain arcs, blablabla, tragedy occurs, "good" person becomes "bad." I want to see more characters that are just regular people living their lives not really caring about the battles going on but then something big happens that makes them think maybe they should join a side. I don't want them thrown into it like a chosen one trope, they should make the choice on their own. Another favorite trope real quick is the friends-to-mortal-enemies-to-broken-friends-to-friends/lovers. If you know you know, if you don't think She-Ra Catra and Adora (yeah I said it, don't judge me) and if that doesn't work, the only other one I can kind of think of right now is Harry Potter, Ron and Hermione, Deathly Hallows - Ron gets jealous and angry and storms off, doesn't really become an enemy exactly, but he leaves in a huff and the two are mad at each other. Then, Ron comes back and Hermione is still furious at him but happy he came back, and eventually she forgives him. Close enough I guess.

[@jonweman6128]

Holmes vs Moriarty is considered a classical rivalry, but iirr he is introduced in the same story that he and Holmes (spoiler) kill each other and Holmes just explains retroactively "I have been following him for a long time", which is a bit cheesy.

[@janus6349]

For me it's about balance, I enjoy a villain with a tragic backstory, who you can feel for, someone who makes you explore morally grey areas but I don't need that in every story and it's also not fitting for every arc and not realistic for everyone, some people are evil without a good reason

[@stormaxelsen3167]

My favourite stories are the stories that show villains in nuance and show us that we're not immune to becoming evil/abusive and that nobody is born inherently evil. eg: the fallen hero/corrupted hero trope. But it's important that it's written in a way where it's made clear that just because there's a reason why you're acting the way you are, that doesnt mean that it can be excused

[@Zivilin]

Yes! I second the recommendation for people to watch jessica jones. I watched it around release and always felt it was so underrated as a show because i never really saw people talk about it. Been one ny my favorurite marvel shows together with Daredevil for years.

[@jazzp454]

I love a villain, who has a reason to be evil. But somewhere, somehow just … snapped. Who is clearly in the wrong, but as a reader u can somehow relate and understand, how it could happen.

[@helenelordel9128]

about the fact that only villains actively try to change the world and the "heroes" aren't allowed to even want that, I love CACW just for that. Because of the moral ambiguity of Tony Stark and the fact he's portrayed as the antagonist and the film focuses on Captain Rogers, and HIS side of the story while at the same time, permitting the audience to question themselves. The importance isn't who's right or wrong, it's the moral implication behind the choices made by the characters.

[@nedmerrill5705]

The villain often has a physical defect. A few examples: Captain Ahab has a missing leg, Dr. No has missing / artificial hands, Mr. Hyde has attributes of Dr. Jekyll plus deformities, and Scar in the Lion King has a small, thin, pink scar over his left eye.

[@janiehenderson3239]

Hoping I can summon a whole fandom with the name of one villain: Maven Calore

[@arabellaashaw]

for me, the Darkling is one of the biggest characters waste EVER ! He could've been one of the greatest vilans of the new YA littérature but his ending is so plain.... I was very much disappointed.

[@BanjotheFrog]

I've been loving TRIGUN STAMPEDE which is a remake of the original Trigun that came out in the 90s which I haven't watched. But lemme just say, aside from being hot like every villain, I don't know if I actually hate Nai or as his villain name, Millions Knives. They talked a lot abt like, the way we abuse natural resources, and I don't want to give spoilers, but why Nai doesn't like humans. Again, it's the moral good intentions, just the actions that don't justify it But overall TRIGUN cuz you don't really know who to root for and I always love that trope

[@spoonfulofsugar5961]

I think that another character that had a redemption arc comparable to Zuko is Scar from fmab. His back story is so intricate and his morals are so grey, but the way he ends up on the side of good is so so delicious

[@GretaM-rb4ro]

You NEED to read The Invisible Life Of Addie LaRue since you already seem to like VE Schwab, Luc is an absolutely fantastic villain!!!

[@cymonharrist]

Best Villain from a video game. Handsome Jack from Borderlands. Just the best hero of his own story.

[@pendragon2012]

Ahh-it's Evil Leonie! I'm here for it! I do love the trope of the villain is sometimes pursuing a worthwhile goal but in the wrong way. Saving humanity is a worthwhile goal but if you destroy millions of lives of real people to do it, it can make a villain. Have a great week! :-)

[@mariashmakova3530]

One of my favorite villans is Rizel from the french anime Lastman (2016). The anime itself is great especially if you decide to watch it in French with English subtitles. The voice of the villan is so mesmerizing I fell in love instantly) I recommend you to watch it if you haven't seen it yet

[@brianshadura-ok7kw]

My personal favorite villain is Artemis Entreri. He is a menacing and calculated assassin and at first he comes off as the stereotypical cold heartless villain but after being defeated by the hero TWICE we follow his life after that and see him make a genuine friend, delve into his childhood, and the internal struggle he develops and eventually comes to terms with after being shown his aspirations to become the best swordsman will never become a reality. It’s very hard to describe him briefly so I just recommend reading the three books he’s in and literally just all of RA Salvatore’s books: Servant of the Shard Promise of the Witch-King Road of the Patriarch

[@celibethgonsalez1760]

thanks leoni for the video, I recommend Psycho-pass the first season is incredible

[@MargaretPinard]

I was so intrigued by Holland in ADSOM!! Excited for the new series in that universe... :D

[@aeolia80]

21:26 ah man!! The first and second books in the Morrigan Crow series are like this. But eventually Morrigan learns her powers from different sources

[@annejia5382]

im trying to binge brainstorm this previous weeks on details i still don't have on different characters and elements of my untouched story so this is helpful 💛

[@tigerinateapott]

once upon a time. this show has a lot of incredibly written villian arcs and also many trops used

[@MrEmbryonicjones]

oddly enough, two westerns come to mind when you brought up 'to me it was tuesday'. the first is 'once upon a time in the west' which waits a decent amount of time to give that context. and the other is 'the great silence' where klaus kinski plays this evil bounty killer who's just too damn good at his job. and it's nothing to him. highly recommend both even if you don't watch westerns. they're sergio leone movies so they're mainly poking fun at and having fun with the genre. also sword earrings?! very cool. your spooky vibes are unmatched regardless of the candelabra placement

[@ldbianco]

love this lighting

[@edithdoesart4477]

18:29 I think that’s why I find the x men films so compelling is that they subvert this trope and are fighting for mutant rights while the government defends the status quo

[@Andrea-zz8bb]

i love your long/“documentary” videos💕💕

[@malublue1013]

The Poppy War series by R. F. Kuang has an AMAZING hero-villain dynamic, where the protagonist is an anti-hero and the antagonist is an anti-villain, so you can never tell who's wrong and who's right

[@IgnisRex64]

Probably a very different genre than is typical of this channel's audience, but Sanguinius and Angron are fantastic foils for each other. 2 angels, one who raises his sons from the darkness and fights against the potential evil within him, the other who drags his sons into the darkness and fully embraces his nature. Their final confrontation really shows how close, yet so impossibly distant, they really are.

[@evavalentin5668]

i need book reccomendations with villains more than air right now

[@mayamemories]

talking about goals; i feel like good villains are convinced that, by their morals and vision, they are doing the right thing. if we saw their pov, if the narrative had their internal monologue, they might even be the hero of their own story. the only thing making them stand out as a villain is the means by which they try to achieve their goals (usually unmoral, but again thats subjective of which perspective we see it from)

[@booklover11976]

the unwanteds series by lisa mcmann has a really good redemption arc in it, although it does happen over the course of all 7 books so it’s kind of a commitment lol

[@morganblalock873]

OMG Jessica Jones is SUCH a good show. I need to rewatch.

[@OnefortheBooks]

Great redemption arc that (to me) rivals Zuko in ATLA is Catra in She-Ra and the Princesses of Power. SUCH an underrated show! (Also has "No Mr. Bond, I Expect You to Dine" in season 5, lol!)

[@__LB_]

The two that always stuck with me were Percy from The Green Mile and Dolores Umbridge from HP. Both because their cruelty seemed rooted in something so tangible and real. They seemed to embody the insidious depths of humanity, but remained wholly realistic. Specifically in the way they welded malicious power over others they should have no business being in charge of, all the while, relishing their ability to torment them in unequal and unjust ways. Furthermore, how that couldn’t quite be curtailed by the people around them, who also seemed disgusted by certain punishments. The cherry on top for both of them was being packed in seeming innocence- Percy with his small stature and Dolores with her affinity for girlish things (pink, bows, kittens).

[@__LB_]

Meanwhile, one of the best in my opinion is Killmonger from the Black Panther movie. I think he is a great villain because he serves as a great counter to the hero. He doesn’t seek to rule because some vague thirst for power but because of a singular driving goal of liberation. And you understand why and how he got there, and ache for him that he is simply seeking to repeat the pattern he was taught, knowing it’ll only end the same way- pain and bloodshed. But in the end, he helps truly grow T’Challa into a better person and fully align him with his true moral arch. I think the best villains are ones that help the hero grow, that you can sympathize with, and that have a strong motive and goal. And to the end he remains true, his final lines in the sunset still give me goosebumps and usually make me shed a tear or two.

[@hcoffeegirl]

under the red hood - both the movie (animated) and the comic jason is walking in the line of a villain and an antihero. the movie asks so many interesting moral questions

[@Meggimagine]

I also love the evil overlord types of villains, like Sauron. The way he's written in LOTR, you almost never see him but you feel his presence constantly. Granted, it's more interesting when there is some interaction between them and the protagonist(s), but it adds to the tension, I believe :3 Otherwise, I'm all for the archnemesis, not only the preestablished type (like Batman and the Joker), but those that become said archnemesis to the hero because they've done something horrendous enough the hero, who was in this with maybe less stakes up until then, becomes invested on a truly personal level (dunno if what I just wrote is comprehensible enough...). Oh, and the whole obsession with the protagonist. Love me a good obsession (I swear I'm sane)!

[@Meggimagine]

@TheBookLeo. Suuuuuure, nice try 😂😂

[@shalice21]

Villain media recommendation!! I totally understand what you mean by western media needing to branch out on tropes. Anime and just Eastern tropes are so interesting to me probably because I don’t seem them as often. That being said, I don’t know if you’d be interested but there is a really good enemies to lovers trope kdrama called “Doom at Your Service.” I recently rewatched it after a while and I had forgotten how good that show is and how much I absolutely love the villain in it. Honestly maybe getting into more eastern media will help with finding more good villains for you as well! I know I’m in desperate want for more really good villains myself!

[@jaja231]

I recommend Hench by Natalie Zina Walschots, it has strong The Boys (tv show) vibes (it's also set in a world where superheroes and supervillains exist) and it's just great exploration of that morally gray space, and you could say a corruption arc for our main character (even though she was never really on that ''good'' side of things, mainly taking it a step further)

[@FrumiousMing8]

Personally I think villains have to be suited to the story that they're in. Sometimes a villain needs to be unambiguously evil, sometimes a villain has to be layered with a deep backstory. I have a preference towards complicated villains but I know that that doesn't really work in every story. Variety is the spice of life, after all. One would get tired of only having 1 type of villain for every story. In defense of mustache twirling villains, they can be a lot of fun, you just have to make sure they have personality. To paraphrase Megamind, the difference between a villain and a supervillain is PRESENTATION!

[@ЙоханМессинг]

Redemption arc: naruto, gaara. Interesting villains in anime: Makeshima from psychopass, Johan from monster.

[@tehufn]

26:12 - I think my novel's protagonist has this to some extent. Very interesting concept...

[@ttwicecoloredd]

oh!!! i LOVE a good villain. some of my absolute favs are Solas in Dragon Age, Kreia in KOTOR II, and, of course, the ultimate love-to-hate, Joffrey.

[@oasis-wasteland]

TV recommendation is The Devil Judge (kdrama) and book recommendation is Dark Rise by cs pacat.

[@luciasegui5256]

I know i'm a month late, but i missed this fantastic video and i can't not comment. The blue and orange morality reminded me of one of my favorite manhwa, "the way to protect the female leads older brother" just because you can't tell exactly who is morally correct. The actual female lead belongs to a family where killing, or poisoning or things like that are nothing out of the ordinary, so you can't really tell who is a true villain, you can't even tell if she just lost it sometimes, and that is why i enjoy it so much. Maybe is jut me loving morally grey characters... (I'm sorry for my grammar mistakes, english is not my first languaje).

[@Thenoobestgirl]

So many of my favorite characters are villains. Last night I finished Finale and my favorite character was Jacks (although I suppose he's more of an anti-villaim in Finale 🤔), so I'm so glad he got his own spin-off, which I am going to start today or tomorrow. 😌

[@cillexmm3208]

Ok this isn't very bookish but can we all agree that Negan from twd is one of the best villains of the 2010s

[@no_i_dont_want_no_slugs]

i think some of the love for villians without backstory is when they are Symbols of evil. it's doing something else for the story. think Sauron and characters like that. sometimes the story's trying to do stuff and just needs symbolic representations.

[@jamesduggan7200]

hmm, that's interesting, as I'd always heard the line as Auric Goldfinger saying to secret agent James Bond: "No, I expect you to die" (rather than to save yourself from this obviously very painful torture by confessing your true identity, and telling me everything you know about my evil plans). Possibly, all these years I was wrong, and the villain is making a sarcastic retort to re-enforce the completely one-sided current balance of power? Today, I confess I like yours better, though I cannot be sure I'll feel the same way tomorrow.

[@cmm5542]

I think the 'I expect you to dine' was from a different film, playing on the earlier one. The Man With the Golden Gun, I'm PRETTY sure. But my sister is the James Bond expert, not me 😏

[@jamesduggan7200]

@@cmm5542 Yeah, I googled it and learned how old I am, as the "to dine" is a current meme spoofing the older "to die"

[@destroyerinazuma96]

Here's what I find neat - picture a setting where special powers aren't uncommon and an underdog protag who relies on technology and wits. Now take a villain with a similar upbringing and also no "natural" powers, who also uses technology and wits. I think this could make for a good dynamic.

[@bettyreads222]

Love this video. I love villains. And this details why so amazingly, they're so complex when done well! Oh Killgrave what a horrible human. And the AI in the Illuminae Files has a great reason as to why he's terrorizing the crew. I enjoy space stories a lot so Jessie Mahlik's characters also have depth to their bad decisions and villainy. Glad Jesse shouted you out in a recent vid!

[@Noxhh_]

When you said the "villain-is-the-only-one-that-is-willing-to-teach-the-mc-to-reach-their-true-potential" trope I immediately thought about Danny and Vlad from Danny Phantom