Tolkien the Scholar (with Luke Annear)

Luke Annear answers questions about Tolkien scholarship and Tolkien the scholar from Patreon supporters of Jackson Crawford, in a Patreon-exclusive Crowdcast recorded January 22, 2021.
Jackson Crawford, Ph.D.: Sharing real expertise in Norse language and myth with people hungry to learn, free of both ivory tower elitism and the agendas of self-appointed gurus. Visit jacksonwcrawfo... (includes bio and linked list of all videos).
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[@slee3155]

09:45 ... sorry, but Harry Goatleaf was the gatekeeper. Barliman Butterbur ran The Prancing Pony

[@GrimAhren]

For future reference, the problem the guest is having with his audio is that the noise suppression, or noise canceling on his phones microphone is cutting out the sound of his own voice because he is too far away from it.It's programmed to assume that the person is going to be holding their phone closer to their mouth while on a video call. Notice how it starts cutting out more aggressively as he starts to lower his tone of voice towards the end of a sentence.

[@philaletha]

Unfortunately, the computer I was planning on using for this was having video issues, otherwise sound would have been beautifully coming through a microphone/interface system. Instead due to time constraints, we ended up needing to use my phone, alas!

[@CandyCarbonnier]

As soon as I saw the title I thought to myself: “If Dr. Crawford was a Tolkien character, he’d totally be Tom Bombadil!”

[@christy734]

Aragorn.

[@christy734]

@@eliecanonicimerle4886 I have not read the novels; but I think that was the Nobleman’s name in some of the movies.

[@eliecanonicimerle4886]

@@christy734 yes sorry, my pocket wrote a comment on its own. I think picking Aragorn is not far from some truth, but I figure him more as a Gandalf the grey.

[@Nikelaos_Khristianos]

In regards to Tolkien's passion for Beowulf, his notes that accompany his translation are still exemplary for students studying Beowulf. He dissects so many aspects of the language, the historical artifacts within the poem and the possible conjuction of the poem and the earlier, oral folk-tale of Beowulf. His scholarship is still invaluable. On his translation, he never intended it to be a personal verse translation, it was purely meant as a study-guide. In one of his essays, he wrote on the nature of translation, and held very strong opinions against exclusively reading text in translation. Instead, he strongly advocated for reading texts in their original and using translation as an aide for doing so.

[@radagast7200]

Just finished with Graham Philips lecture on King Arthur. Perfect timing.

[@elizabethford7263]

Link Please?

[@trufflehunter58]

Jackson, I completely agree with your connection between Tengwar and Devanagari. When I first studied Sanskrit under the tutelage of the magnificent Professor Godfrey Tanner at the University of Newcastle (NSW, Australia) back in 1983, I was immediately struck by the similarity. After carrying this around in my head all these years, you are the first to confirm it!

[@armedpatriot8611]

Wow I graduated with this guy. Never thought I would see him here. Small world.

[@judyshoaf448]

Re Goatleaf--Marie de France herself tells us that the English name of this lai is "Gotelef." Marie was pretty important to 12th-c studies in general because she excelled at the genre of the lai (which also flourished in English), and also she was an early author for King Arthur, so Tolkien probably knew her work. However, he may have just wanted to provide an older English word for the plant.

[@nestorotto8678]

A drengr in the modern age.:)the cowboy

[@electricc437]

I LOVE that word. "Drengr"... It's oddly satisfying to say out loud 🤠

[@the_purple_mage]

Loved the discussion, but the uneven audio levels were frustrating. Perhaps the audio issues could be addressed before going live?

[@samuelterry6354]

I read this as Tolkien the soldier; I thought it was going to be about his WWI exploits...

[@seanbeadles7421]

The character Túrin in the Narn i Chîn Húrin is heavily inspired by Kullervo in the Kalavala.

[@Vanalos]

And he's killing the dragon Glaurung exactly like Sigurd killed Fafnir.

[@Gauteamus]

The Amon Sul podcast (on e.g. spotify) is a great resource on Tolkiens authorship from an orthodox christian perspective.

[@Gauteamus]

@@davidweihe6052 Late reply to a fair question: The guys behind the podcast are eastern orthodox (of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese in North America?) I am not Orthodox (eastern) myself, and I feel the podcast fairly seldom (but on occasion) is specifically Orthodox (again, in the "eastern" sense). I do think the podcast has some of the deepest analysises of Tolkiens work, that I have encountered, and I feel (without having an intention of doing "second-hand evangelization") that the podcast would be enlightening and valuable also for someone coming to it without a christian belief of their own.

[@caseyrogers573]

I don’t know if he mastered them, but Finnish and Welsh were the phono-aesthetic inspirations for Quenya and Sindarin respectively (in regards to what non-Germanic languages Tolkien had some level of “mastery” in)

[@caseyrogers573]

...aaaaaand Jackson just said it. Never mind.

[@jays.8621]

On the point of other languages Tolkien knew, Tolkien provided a translation of the Book of Jonah for the Jerusalem Bible. However I do not know if he translated that from modern French (that Bible's original edition was a French Bible), Greek or Hebrew.

[@radagast7200]

Have you ever heard the Van Zandt song called Silver Ships of Andilar? It seems to clearly be referencing Ar Pharazons fleet... but the song was written before The Silmarillian was published, which is (I believe) the first time that story was released to the public. It's always been a mystery to me.

[@aesir1ases64]

Must be a coincidence, I have a hard time believing Van Zandt has read the lord of the rings lol

[@WilliamMoses355]

Korean Hangul always struck me as a possible inspiration for Tengwar, not aesthetically, but in the phonological organization. For example, in Korean, all the labials are "boxy," and in Tengwar, they all have a bar on the bottom of the letter and the stem on the left. Maybe that's just what happens when a linguist creates a writing system?

[@paulaunger3061]

Nice discussion, but I wish Luke had been a bit more prepared. I did get the impression that Jackson and the attendees knew more than he did about his chosen subject although this obviously isn't the case! Maybe he could come back another time and maybe discuss something specific about Tolkien's work? That bit about the word Earendel was fascinating (I've been adding to my own notes during this vid!) and you make a valuable point about how many people are drawn into Norse and related studies.

[@roystonsbailey]

About Tolkein and Hebrew: Tolkien mentioned in a radio interview that he had derived Dwarfish from Semitic languages (names like Barad-Dur for example), and in fact Dwarves were somewhat based on his perception of the ancient Jews.

[@tolkienstuff7038]

That's not true. Barad-dûr is a Sindarin word (Elvish) , meaning "dark tower".

[@donkeysaurusrex7881]

Regarding Ph.D.s, there are some old medieval rules still in play in England or at least they were up until around 2000 or so. Cambridge could grant a Ph.D. to a person who had a published book and could satisfactorily pass an oral examination on their area of study. Not sure if any of that applies to Tolkien though.

[@paulaunger3061]

One interesting thing about Toklien as head of Anglo-Saxon or whatever it was, is that not only did he not need a PhD for it, but he something like the third academic to actually hold it - previously it had gone to a rector, who was a non-academic member of clerical staff, simnply there to look after the smooth running of the department while the dons did their teaching. These days I don't think Tolkien would even be considered for the post! The current person in that post has an incredible CV/resume! (Check him out on their website - I think he was appointed in 2017, 2016, something like that).

[@Nikelaos_Khristianos]

@@paulaunger3061 *Professor of Anglo-Saxon studies. ☺️

[@HenrikBergpianorganist]

Chevrefoil would've been pronounced [tʃɛvrəfɔʎ] back then, no? 'Oi' wasn't yet [wa], the 'i' just palatalizes the 'l'...?

[@MicaRayan]

Love Lotr!

[@Kurufinwe_Fayanaro]

Tengwar is inspired by Tibetan, good guess with devanagari!

[@stumccabe]

I listened to a lecture by VS Ramachandran where he showed a picture of two shapes, one bulbous and rounded, the other sharp and spiky. He told the audience that one was called "Booba" and the other "Kiki" and asked people which name they associated with which shape - unsurprisingly nearly everyone agreed. So an association of a vowel type with a size would not be surprising. Any guesses about Booba/Kiki?

[@adrianhyde]

On Tengwar, I have seen a manuscript at the National Library of Wales that looked almost identical. I can't remember what it was though.

[@polyhistorphilomath]

Luke Annatar? Watch out, Crawford. It’s Morgoth Returned 2: Electric Boogaloo.

[@immortalsirens4644]

Both handsome greek schollars:-) ilovit♡ subbed followed ♡♡

[@mnels5214]

I was so sorry to have missed the original of this, what an interesting talk. Also, loved the Young Frankenstein reference.

[@LeoPlaw]

Jackson, you need a better camera!

[@nestorotto8678]

Awesome

[@yelena7997]

Audio - Your guest needs to move closer to his phone 📱

[@palarious]

My guess is that "Ah" and "ooh" involve lower tones, which correlates to the masculine, and "ee" and "eye" are higher pitch, which correlates to the feminine. Masculine = larger, feminine = smaller.

[@jglammi]

Tolkien first read in W. F. Kirby’s translation (of the KALEVALA) in 1911 when he was at King Edward’s School. The poems, or runos, enchanted him immediately, for they were very unusual, very different from what young Tolkien had encountered before.

[@jglammi]

Handsome dudes

[@chuggermagic]

That into music is brilliant, does anyone know the name of the song?

[@MClaudeW]

Loki+Sun Wukong= Luke