The Tolkien Geek Reviews “The Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim”

[@Crafty_Spirit]

The film had a pretty clever answer regarding the rumours that Helm ate manflesh 🧟‍♂️

[@devitradio]

One of the things I loved about this movie. That whole sequence was done very well in my opinion. Showing how the legend of Helm grew among the Dunlandings.

[@akanomamushi15]

Haleth falling in Edoras is accurate, Hama reached Hornburg with Helm and was even joining parties gathering provisions for the impending siege but in one of those foraging excursions, his party went missing, including him.

[@illinoisan]

To me the most important thing about Tolkien is language. Tolkien uses archaic language to great effect and I think the LOTR movies do a great job mimicking that style. My problem with WOTR is that they recycled so much of the LOTR dialogue (“eye is fixed” is one example). It was like wearing a straight jacket. There are plenty of creative ways to use archaic language but we were denied that by the constant “callback” to LOTR movie dialogue.

[@Crafty_Spirit]

The dialogue was unfortunately often wooden and out of place, lost in different callbacks

[@phillystevesteak6982]

Exactly. Instead of mimicing Tolkien, they mimiced Peter Jackson's rendition of Tolkien (a diluted interpretation of the source in a sense), which limited their creative space in regards to language

[@illinoisan]

I can’t help complaining about the incorrect usage of the word “whence” in the movies. They use the tautology “from whence” more than once. Funny they never make the same mistake saying “to hence.”

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

@illinoisan “from whence” drives me crazy too 😂

[@a-lightful-forest]

Yeah, if they ever did another version like an extended edition perhaps, they should really reword the memberberry LoTR/Hobbit dialogue to make them original instead. The songs are fine, as has been pointed out, it's logical that people groups use their same songs more often. I just mean the copied dialogue. I'm not sure why studios do this. I'm not getting high on a particular phrase or wording so that simply repeating it automatically makes me feel happy... I don't get cut-and-paste elements in general 😅. You don't copy the success of a story by recycling the exterior like sentences or a character's appearances. These are all superficial things. What they *should* copy are the values of the beloved world, the intricate worldbuilding, the quality of it, the love therein, the spirit of it, not the outward things. 🥴 Luckily, in this movie, most these callbacks were integrated into the logic of their scenes more or less, so that I could ignore them. Just really didn't like what Héra called herself when confronting Wulf late in the movie. To replace the word she used with "Rohan" would really be better, as (I think) Men of the West suggested.

[@jonathonfrazier6622]

Jackson Crawford is reading LOTR and doing a series on it. I think both of you would be a great colab.

[@zacharyclark3693]

I’ve heard from multiple channels (that for context, were critical of the Rings of Power) that WOTRH wasn’t bad, and not nearly as woke or virtue signaling as they feared it might be. I’ll have to see it to make my own opinion. Unlike the live action shows that try to be in the same universe, with animation (and this being a fairly disconnected story) I can always think of this as it’s own thing and it shouldn’t affect any other story going forward. Kinda like how I can acknowledge and still enjoy the Rankin Bass movies (although I think their Hobbit movie was 10 times better than the Peter Jackson version). It’s too bad studios have lost the trust of so many fans, that (with good reason) we approach new films with trepidation rather than excitement. Not just with LOTR, but with other franchises as well.

[@ruddyrutherford]

I saw it yesterday It's real good Not woke or virtue signalling at all Biggest criticism for me is its too long

[@Hero_Of_Old]

It's not obnoxious but there are still feminist undertones throughout.

[@SirBoggins]

​@@Hero_Of_OldWhich work fine as long as they fit within the rest of the structure of the story.

[@arminius504]

@@Hero_Of_Old agreed. And that’s a no go for me.

[@squaeman_2644]

​@SirBoggins EoWYn wAS a feMINisT 🤦‍♂️

[@gandalfolorin-kl3pj]

Mellon Geek: Well, I wasn't inclined to watch this movie. But after watching your review, I'll give it a chance--although, on my income, I'll have to wait till it's online. Excellent, as always, dear Loremaster. Namarie.

[@jamesbaluarte3]

There should be a movie ticket below $15.

[@RaceAce_69]

Been waiting for your review! 😁

[@braedenh6858]

I don't understand why Hera (an unnamed character) takes center stage in a story about Helm Hammerhand. The plot of this movie is that everyone should have listened to Hera and done what she said. I mean, that's really it.

[@scranton8582]

Because if she wasn't the lead then you wouldn't have a lead cos they all die. Choosing to make it Hera allowed them to have a consistent narrative while you then see everyone around her perish in the war. The main parts of the story are all there apart from Frealaf not killing Wulf. however, the people are the ones who would tell the story and as far as they're aware, Hera just stayed behind to distract the enemy to allow them to escape. They didnt know how she was going to do it. Then Frealaf turns up and the battle is won. Wulf is dead. so to the majority, Frealaf must have ended Wulf. Yes thats not the exact lore but tolkien does utilise (especially with the og bilbo gollum riddles in the dark) the unreliable narrator trope. I thought it was great movie!

[@jonathonfrazier6622]

@@scranton8582 Leads can die. Gladiator. 300. There are others.

[@mr.s2005]

at least she wasn't a mary sue.

[@scranton8582]

@@jonathonfrazier6622 great examples there champ. Those leads die at the end of their stories.

[@michaelburbidge5835]

@@scranton8582 Wrong it is done for female empowerment plain and simple.

[@elizabethlestrad5282]

Movie was a 7 out of 10. Most of my issues were less related to story and more related to how significant points of interest revolving around the construction of Helms Deep were conveniently forgotten, resulting in at least one potentially unnecessary death. How did Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas sneak outside and ambush the urukai at the gate of Helms Deep again? Hmm... Why don't attackers (especially when they're also from Rohan) ever use the completely unguarded escape tunnel to infiltrate "The Deep" from behind? Does it only exist when its convenient for the plot (the civilians need to escape!). Also the whole Ring/Gandalf thing was unnecessary. Even if Gandalf did somehow know about a very specific event at Helms Deep (its not hard to imagine, from him talking about it in Fellowship, that there are search parties around this time), there's no way with everything else going on, Hera would think one throwaway line from an orc was important enough to remember through out the rest of the movie. But other than that, it was enjoyable. Will probably pick it up when the bluray drops.

[@NickBR57]

Youre more forgiving than I am. Making nothing of Frealaf, who actually kilked Wulf so should be a major event; putting in the Eagles who never apoear in the source unless I am misremembering; making so much of Hera who was a nameless one-liner; having Heln run from the gates of the Deep and then frozen to desth (which at least is right)... and many more. Thanls gor watching for me 🙂

[@S4ltyTar0]

I mean, it's a trade, he loses his moment of killing Wulf, but he gets to be the one who leads the Rohirrim to defeat the Dunlendings without Gondorian troops.

[@jesserochon3103]

Freilef never kills Wolf in this. However, he still has a massive moment at the end. Basically saves everyone. So I don’t really give af

[@mr.s2005]

would say there's also a problem with showing the passage of time with the siege, I mean it was supposed to have lasted a whole year. One sec they are talking about Helm sneaking out killing the dunlends to the point the army is freaked out of their minds to the point Wulf had to return to his camp. Then they show Hera waking up and acting like its the first time Helm had disappeared when the narration and the other character's talk sounds like he's being doing it for a while.

[@AnnaBenIsrael]

The eagles are looking for a ringbearer to carry to Mordor and finish the thing early but all they got was a stake...

[@Arrowfodder]

Well a movie about Berúthiel, the black numenorean queen of Gondor, would be an alternative as an in canon version of a "girl boss".

[@greatscott175]

The movie was • made purely to retain the LotR rights, and • drawn by SIXTY studios mostly in places like Indonesia working for cents per hour because Japan's industry is overworked and too expensive for them. Just by those two metrics I can't justify seeing this, even if it wasn't ugly and looked so choppy like it was 4 frames per second. This is not a movie made for art, or the love of the source material.

[@squaeman_2644]

Remember the Rankin Bass Hobbit? That illustration actually used an old British cartoon style that totally fit... Anime... Not so much...

[@mysteryroach42]

@@squaeman_2644Bakshi made the animated The Lord of the Rings film. The Hobbit was Rankin/Bass.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

@mysteryroach42 Rankin/Bass did make The Return of the King which might be what he’s referring to.

[@x0UncleSam0x]

Yes it was choppy. But that is my only complaint however as the story and characters were great.

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

I think that armor of Helm and his sons in the movie is pretty similar (especially considering stylistic differences) to the armor Theoden is wearing in PJ movies (there is a close look of that armor when Theoden is being armored during the battle of Helm's Deep). I am not sure what type of armor this armor supposed to be, but probably so-called "cuir bouilli" - early plate armor made out of hardened leather, or maybe segmented armor akin to Roman lorica segmentata, but covered in leather.

[@tarzan8575]

I have given up hope for getting any accurate adaptions from Hollywood these days of ANY literary source. Peter Jackson's trilogy the last great adaption as far as I'm concerned and that's sad because I was really excited for this when it was announced. Then I found out what they were doing to it and my excitement vanished.

[@scranton8582]

But even the trilogy wasn't that faithful. It was brilliant but WotR was just as accurate as the trilogy.

[@tarzan8575]

@@scranton8582 Were any minor characters from the trilogy made into main characters? Were they made members of the Fellowship? Was Sam and Frodo's story told from the point of view of Fredigar Bolger or some other side character? No, WotR is not as accurate as LotR.

[@hazbojangles2681]

Haven’t seen it yet. Honestly no idea when I’ll go see it. For some reason I’m not super excited and it has nothing to do with hating adaptations. I just don’t have the urge to see it just yet.

[@monkeymox2544]

I quite enjoyed it. It made quite a few deviations from the source material, but that didn't bother me too much, I have no objection to these things going their own way. Hera is obviously an invention of the writers, but that didn't make me annoyed, because I'm not a tinfoil hat neckbeard who thinks that Marxistfeministwokenazis are trying to take over the world by putting women in films. 6/10, not in a hurry ro rewatch, better than ROP, some good moments.

[@cielomcmeekin7296]

Wait .. a maid n a guard boy are the main characters? That was shocking to hear that they would make the cut

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Leif isn’t a main character, I’d say he’s bottom rung secondary character.

[@obadiah_v]

I enjoyed the movie. Telling the story of Helm from the perspective of the unnamed daughter is not a bad idea. I thought it worked well enough.

[@jessmith7324]

I didnt see hera as a girl boss. She gets her ass handed to her a couple of times and even was about to consent to marry him. And that her attitude torwards marriage and rulers was stated from the beginning. The line about no stories about hera in the beginning was the move acknowledging the written lore, not taking a swipe at tolkien. If anything I wanted to see why shes later ommitted from the history

[@morriganmhor5078]

Because someone other knew why Helm died?

[@Crafty_Spirit]

Neither did I perceive her as bossy. She seemed strangely unaffected though by all the death and despair and hard to relate to for her presented flawlessness.

[@scranton8582]

@@Crafty_Spirit If you look at history and how "royalty" are meant to behave and act it kinda makes sense why she appears stoic in all the horror going on. However, ontop of that she's also the daughter to Helm and has probably been around this kinda thing for most of her life. She's used to it. the death of family comes when she cannot take time to wallow in self pity, especially when halef dies.

[@elizabethlestrad5282]

Exactly! She made plenty of poor decisions (including strategic blunders). The whole thing about people getting pissed about Helm saying he wanted her to rule, and all that... they don't understand how morale works. She admitted she had zero confidence that she was ready or capable of leading, but like it or not, she was going to be the leader. Whether Helm believed it or not, he HAD to get Hera to believe in herself or the keep WOULD fall. Helm knew he wasn't going to be around to save her.

[@enzorocha2977]

3:24 D word?

[@johnkredit9072]

Damn!

[@johnkredit9072]

Could also be dick, I haven't seen it yet

[@johnnzboy]

I was wondering about that too - are we sure it's 'damn'? Tolkien Geek says that it's out of character for Middle Earth, which wouldn't seem to apply to the pretty mild 'damn' - are we sure it's not "male part" (used as part of an insult), which would definitely be incongruous?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

@johnnzboy it’s “damn”. It’s out of character in Middle-earth because there’s no hell to be damned to so it has no referent.

[@a-lightful-forest]

I liked the movie a lot overall, there were a so many little and big things done right and well. I liked the pacing, the little plot ideas, the emotions, the love and respect characters showed each other, it was not anti-men or anti-women but pro love and pro peace. Also, some invented lore things which you could question (like Mumakil), I noticed they made a genuine effort to make them fit in logically, so that they made more sense... I was also worried about modern politics: but there's so little of it that I think: if THIS were the only "need no man" heroine that Middle-earth got, it could digest her. It would be fine to have one such character in this world. She is nuanced enough, too, to be human and likeable. I'd give it a 7/10. The story is not as grand as LotR (does every story have to be?), but in terms of actual weaknesses, only some small plot issues and the annoying copied dialogue, but easy to overlook in face of the pleasant animation and storytelling. I recommend it happily.

[@JrodXX]

Can’t say I expected the Fire Emblem mention lol.

[@roguehart]

The production used 60 different animationstudios so that more than likely contributed to the jarring animation an choppiness.

[@YamiAi]

If instead of Hera the pointless being the protagonist Helm was the protagonist this might have been good. As is this is merely passable.

[@Benevolent_Fafnir]

I really don’t understand the whole thing with the Eagles… I mean, it makes sense why Gondor would revere them (being Dúnedain and all), but Tolkien clearly states that the Northmen fear the eagles. This takes place only about 200 years after the founding of Rohan as a kingdom so there should still be fear and mistrust there imo.

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

And they did. Hera was the only one trying to befriend them.

[@Benevolent_Fafnir]

@ right and this is one of the things that makes her a Mary Sue… A horse girl befriending the eagles that the rest of her people fear? Yeah that’s a bit too on the nose for me.

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

@@Benevolent_Fafnir Then a hobbit who befriends elves the rest of his people fear is also a mary sue :)

[@Benevolent_Fafnir]

@ not hardly… The reason Frodo is so fond of elves is because of Bilbo’s influence. This isn’t even remotely comparable 🤣

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

@@Benevolent_Fafnir I meant Bilbo, not Frodo. But either way, it is normal for the main character to do something remarkable and by itself doesn't turn them into a mary sue.

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

The Eagles saved young Huor and Hurin in the Silmarillion once, so I do not think that they completely ignore regular humans. Also, in the Hobbit they say that they steal sheep from humans, so if some human wants to give them meat, they probably will accept it. I'd actually prefer if the the Eagles would play a bigger role in the movie, I pretty liked them.

[@drpaimon2369]

As an avid watcher of anime I would't say anime is typically very brutal/gorey. Nor adult only. Most of the time they appeal to a pretty broad audience I'd say. Anime is just a medium in the end, not a genre. Although I guess if you think of some classics that were big in the west like Akira or Ghost in the shell, yeah they are definitely more targeted towards adults. Also I recommend Sousou no Frieren. Amazing storytelling, worldbuilding, pacing and lore. I recommend I either the animated series or the source material. Both are amazing if you like high fantasy literature.

[@pikewerfer]

What in blazes is the D word???

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Damn

[@hazbojangles2681]

Probably will make several comments but your review is really good so far.

[@bobbibaker5877]

Thank you for the honest review. I watched it and enjoyed it. The points you made about some of your dislikes - I get it. Thanks again!

[@parhwy]

An hour long video?! Oh my! I liked TWOTR. I agree with you about the background and anime frontage causing eye-focus disorientation as well as the eagles being unnecessary and that Lief was too much a Samwise facsimilie. I actually liked the Watcher especially how over-the-top / epic was its eating of the elephant. Hera didn't strike me as a girl-boss. The back of the dress was distracting for being unexpected and unusual. There were a few callbacks / memberberries but they were dispersed and infrequent. Overall, wayyy better than TROP.

[@matthabir4837]

Did the mahouts in Middle Earth carry an ankus? I can't remember from PJ's movies, but that would have been an interesting detail...

[@Chociewitka]

but the Rohirrim knew hobbits from back then, they called them "Holbytlan", so he very well could have been one

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

It’s pretty clear he’s just a young human.

[@Chociewitka]

@@TolkienLorePodcast he was probably created as a hobbit but this must have been cut afterwards, as he seemed to have been build up for a reveal which seemed to have been missing from the movie - maybe after the RoP'a Harfoots met with such a resistance from the audience...

[@sststr]

I have no idea what you mean "the D word"? ''Dwarf' in the context of LOTR can't be considered a slur. Sop what, the nickname for Richard?

[@takavar2]

LOL what is the D word? Damn? This is hilarious.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Damn is the word I was thinking of. I realize that’s nothing for most people these days but it’s a pretty serious word and some people would rather their kids not start repeating it.

[@sststr]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Fair enough - I've seen very religious parents get upset at their kids saying things even lesser than that.

[@thehouseofoverthinking]

​@@TolkienLorePodcast Are. You. Serious??? I've never in my life heard anyone refer to damn as the D word 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 omg think of the children!

[@thehouseofoverthinking]

​@@sststr I wouldn't say "Fair enough". I'd say "Get some real problems"

[@sunsin1592]

Saw the extended preview when watching another movie at the theater a couple weeks back. It convinced me that my original decision to pass was absolutely correct. Two things I dislike mashed together: girl bosses and Japanimation. Sprinkle in the desecration of Tolkien and it's easy to skip.

[@Maverick.D.]

Neither of those things were the problem with the movie, though...The story, uneven soundtrack and pacing were...

[@whisperingshadowXI]

​@@Maverick.D. Doesn't matter, these people love their delusional ideologies and will latch onto that rather than the actual nuances and reasons for why something doesn't perform well. Genuine criticisms and notes for improvements will be disregarded by these people on favor of their culture wars. And unfortunately they make that their entire personality oftentimes, so even trying to ignore them won't work as they make it their life's mission to ahove their politics down everyone's throats at any and every opportunity. We are all worse off for their bullshit.

[@otaku-sempai2197]

Have not been able to see the movie yet, but it does seem as though it does Fréaláf dirty. 1) He can take charge of the Rohirrim at Dunharrow without being banished first; that seemed unnecessary. 2) He's kinda robbed of what should be his big moment. Am I wrong? I still expect to (mostly) like the film; but I don't know that I'll love it.

[@gnothiseauton626]

In the source material (which, by the way, is less than three pages long) the killing of Wulf does not end the war, and in the movie Fréaláf does save the day. Sure, Héra comes up with the plan, but without Fréaláf, the best that Héra would have accomplished would have been delaying the slaughter of those hiding in the Hornburg. I think the biggest flaw in the movie isn't making Héra the main character, it was not having Fréaláf as the second of dual protagonists. Héra as the main character makes perfect sense for the emotional beats of losing Haleth and Háma - after all, they are her brothers - and then for losing her father Helm. If any three of those men were the main characters, or dual main characters with Fréaláf, it would have either meant a jarring switch when they died, or a weird uneveness jumping from two to just one character. However, so much more could have been done with this movie if Fréaláf had been a dual protagonist along with Héra. If we had seen more of what he did after he was banished - which also would have made so much more sense if he had been a main character - it would have given us a better opportunity to see what Rohan was like, all the stuff we missed out on when Éomer was banished, and it also would have given the film less of a "Two Towers re-run" feel. I liked the film, but didn't necessarily love it. It has some flaws, but overall was enjoyable and isn't as lore-breaking or as woke as a lot of reviewers are saying. A lot of those people have just conditioned themselves into being unable to enjoy any adaptation if it involves 1) a woman, or 2) deviates at all from source material in any way. I don't think they dislike women, I just think they have been so critical (and rightly so) of so many other adaptations and projects, that they can no longer suspend their cynicism in order to enjoy something.

[@S4ltyTar0]

Frealaf comes off well in the movie, I think, he has one line which I REALLY wish he didn't say, but overall ok. His banishment makes sense as it gives a reason that Frealaf was at Dunharrow instead of retreating with them to the Hornberg. Frealaf also still gets his heroic moment where he charges in and defeats the Dunlendings and becomes king. I liked it for the most part, and the people I went with overall liked it, you'll probably like it.

[@otaku-sempai2197]

@@S4ltyTar0 Okay, though I don't think that there needs to be any justification for Fréaláf to be at Dunharrow. He and Haleth could just as easily been among the Rohirrim who remained in Edoras (with Haleth serving as his father's steward in his absence). Fréaláf could have simply organized the retreat to Dunharrow.

[@gnothiseauton626]

@ Yeah, I think I know the line you mean. And I agree. The one at the very end of the film right?

[@S4ltyTar0]

@@otaku-sempai2197 the people of Edoras retreat to the Hornberg, the Rohirrim from other parts of Meduseld retreated to Dunharrow. The plot needed a reason for Frealath to not be in Edoras when it was invaded which the appendices solved by not mentioning him until the very end which wouldn't work in the movie because you can't have some random dude come Deus Ex Machina the war. Same reason they replaced Erkenbrand with Eomer in The Two Towers.

[@bobsbigboy_]

What is the D word?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Damn

[@1simo93521]

Digger

[@GeoffTrowbridge]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Are you serious? THAT needs a warning?

[@ipercalisse579]

Absurd!

[@beetledjuice3062]

Thank you! I was looking for this comment wondering "What the hell did he mean by D word?"

[@istari0]

I saw the movie this past Saturday. It is infinitely better than RoP and it does feel like Middle-Earth. It's not a bad movie and I did enjoy watching it but it's not a particularly good movie either. There were a number of relatively minor things that I don't feel fit that well with what Tolkien wrote but the major problem I have is making Héra, who was really a tertiary character in what Tolkien actually wrote, into the protagonist. This was a simply a big mistake because it's not the tale Tolkien wrote and we were told was being adapted. No, I don't agree with the idea that this change is OK because it is an adaptation; it's still based on what Tolkien created. Yes, I'm aware that Jackson's films made changes as well; I disliked quite a few of those changes. But what they did here was basically give Fréaláf's role to Héra. Once Helm died, the movie should have gone back and forth from the Hornburg to Dunharrow instead of giving one small scene to Fréaláf before he and an army of the Rohirrim showed up at the end. And yes, you can make that work. After all, in The Two Towers and The Return of the King, depending on exactly what point we are in of the story, we are following as many as 4 sets of characters in different locations. The final fight between Héra and Wulf is cringeworthy, particularly having her fight in a wedding gown, and so are the final scenes. The movie went downhill after Helm died. I actually got frustrated with what they did with Héra because I liked most of what they did with the character early on. She was smart, clever, and could think fast on her feet. She was interesting. But they blew it at the end. I'll watch the movie again but not in the theaters. Initial box office returns are disappointing. I've heard the argument that Warner Brothers mainly made this movie to retain their rights to make more movies. But I can't help but wonder that if this movie ultimately ends up a money loser that WB might reconsider their plans. A Tolkien movie should be one that has people eagerly waiting for it to come out and that doesn't appear to be the case here, even if most people who did see it liked it.

[@KevDaly]

The name they invented for her was pretty brainless. They seem to have taken the name of the Greek goddess rather than use names derived from Old English as Tolkien did. It's amateurish.

[@velvet_victor]

They were not actually intending to reference the Greek goddess, more so trying to create a name that sounded Rohanish. Philippa Boyens gave a pretty good explanation to this in one of the interviews. But I do agree they could’ve done better.

[@samuelleask1132]

The crew at least explain their reasoning here in this interview with Nerd of the Rings kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZpmngnmlaJeKe5I&si=bc2DlBOQvXShX1bo

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

Héra (with an acute, also written as Hēra, with macron, in a more modern spelling) is a reasonable Anglo-Saxon name which is good enough for a princess of Rohan. And it alliterates with the name of her father, according to the naming customs of Rohirrim. It comes either from "hēra", an Anglo-Saxon word that means "follower, servant" or from "hēre", an Anglo-Saxon word that means “dignity, majesty or greatness”.

[@squaeman_2644]

To be fair (as this was a good point though we don't see it often and it was Tolkien himself who did it) Tolkien also gave the Hobbits some Spanish names which seems uncommon for them, for example BILBO (BILBAO), SANCHO, ETC... But again that was Tolkien who did that...

[@josephfisher426]

@@RockBrentwood But that's most audiences... While it can be linguistically justified, this still seems like something that should have been flagged at the first table reading as being potentially inconsistent with the immersion.

[@attackoftheants]

What's the d word? Watched War of the Rohirrim today and as a huge fan of the Lord of the Rings, this film sadly suffer the worst sin of just being incredibly boring. I feel this could have been a animated short film so longer than 30 minutes, with more detailed animation. It was so clunky. So disappointing

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

The d word is damn.

[@ruddyrutherford]

I think this is a fair review. I like anime so I enjoyed it more. I've no problem with Hera being the story focus. As a blank canvas, she's a writers dream. This is the story of Helm through the eyes of his daughter. I'd prefer a different name for her however., Hera is not Anglo Saxon enough. Yes, some unnecessary additions such as the Eagles and the Watcher in the Water. Tolkien wrote a 2 page summery with very little detail or characterisation. The film, on a whole, fleshed it out into a good movie narrative. I think your criticisms are valid although I disagree with some. Those not watching it simply because of Hera are missing out sadly

[@Crafty_Spirit]

Hera really isn't the issue of the film, I think it should have been shorter - could have edited out 30 minutes or so, and I agree with your other points

[@jarlwilliam9932]

Hera is actually a word in old English, problem is, it’s not a name but a job title. It translates into modern English as the term manservant.

[@CallinicusHu]

I watched it in Hungarian twice but I cannot recall anyone swearing or referencing a dingo. Who and where? Maybe the dub was censored.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

The word I was referring to is “damn”

[@rhystrotman7812]

How on earth could Helm be the protagonist if he dies before the climax?!? WoTR has as many plot deviations as Jackson's Two Towers?!? Are you mad! Elves at Helms Deep, Theoden choosing to evacuate Edoras and hide in Helms Deep, the warg attack and Aragorn being separated, Eomer's entirely different plot, the entmoot choosing not to go to war, the character assassination of Faramir, no Shelob... The list goes on. The only "D-word" your viewers need to watch out for is you. Pull your head in

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Helm calls Freca fat before he asks for Hera to marry Wulf, Frealaf is basically banished, he doesn’t kill Wulf, who doesn’t die at Edoras, Hera is kidnapped, Gondor isn’t invaded, Wulf pulls all the strings rather than opportunistically taking advantage of the invasion by others, a lord in Rohan turns traitor, eagles get involved, Helm gets wounded and mysteriously disappears before his rampage, etc. as I mentioned in my video I’m not comparing characterization differences because there’s nothing about most of the characters in the book for this story, but there are TONS of plot deviations. I didn’t even list them all. So maybe stop making a fool of yourself.

[@Mythologos]

Shhhh!!!! After the book, the Sacred Peter Jackson Trilogy is the most important part of Middle-Earth! It is perfect in every way and will save western civilization from girlbosses! (I agree: this movie was waaaay more faithful/respectful to it's 1 page of source text than the PJ trilogy, which I have never liked).

[@g.t.werber4476]

The LOTR trilogy is a masterpiece of film making.I doubt War of the Rohirrim is even close to the quality of those films.

[@Mythologos]

Rankin Bass is anime.

[@neildaly2635]

Thankful for your review since I doubt I will watch it. I want to remember the Eorlingas, not the Bossgirlingas.

[@djohnston6856]

You're doing orcs work

[@neildaly2635]

Care to elaborate? Don’t like freedom of speech?

[@tevildo45]

@neildaly2635 Do you not like his freedom of speech?

[@monkeymox2544]

Yeah. Which is why Eowyn killing the Witch King sucks so much too, I guess?

[@persallnas5408]

What is the "d" word?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Damn

[@persallnas5408]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Ok, that is funny, I agree that it is not very Tolkienesce. I wonder though, will you Americans not soon run out of letters for all the words you regard as taboo?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

@persallnas5408 most Americans don’t consider it taboo any more. But there are parents who might not want their kids exposed to it.

[@persallnas5408]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Exposed, hm, like words have a radiant harmfull effect. But to me it seems you are rapidly expanding the number of words that are forbidden

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

@persallnas5408 stop and think a minute. A lot of Tolkien fans are Catholic, or at least Christian, and from their perspective that word has a very real, very serious meaning and they don’t want their kids using it because of that meaning.

[@balrog262]

Honestly, if Hera and Frelaf got married at the end and Hera and him fell in love, it would be perfect. I'd view that as the canon ending with Hera being a proto-Eowyn. I think they didn't do it since they were first cousins. It isn't PC but I say do it anyway. Royals ALWAYS marry their cousins.

[@Gottzchalk]

That’s to faithful Tolkien

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

Tolkien clearly did not support marriage between cousins, though.

[@balrog262]

@@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ I mean Aragorn and Arwen. Though when Elros is Aragorn's 56th Great Grandfather it's an non issue. Also Celeborn is Galadriel's 2nd cousin. Elrond is their daughter's 5th cousin.

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

@@balrog262 Pharazôn took the King's daughter Míriel as his wife... against the laws of Númenor which prohibited first cousins from marrying. I am not saying that Rohirrim definitely follow the same customs, but those laws were there for a reason.

[@balrog262]

@@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ Yes, the Church bans that without a dispensation.

[@JohnAndrewMacDonald]

what is the D word??

[@stevemonkey6666]

Going into this, I'm expecting it to suck. And for there to be a strong, powerful woman who may be a lesbian

[@obadiah_v]

How people are saying she might be a lesbian from the fact that she didn't want to be married off is an incredible heap of logic.

[@braedenh6858]

@@obadiah_v that's a good sign, tbh

[@obadiah_v]

@braedenh6858 quite the nature view.

[@LiamHarper]

The Watcher scene was our first glimpse of Hera's quick thinking and resourcefulness in a dangerous situation, and her faith in the wisdom of the shieldmaidens before her that has been passed down. I think it nicely set up her character and capabilities.

[@Benevolent_Fafnir]

Okay so what is “the D word”???

[@urizen7613]

WTF is the D word?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Damn

[@devitradio]

Talk about nitpicking: what is wrong with some "callbacks" to beloved movies? Rings of Power has jaded us all. But let's be more specific about what RoP did wrong. It wasn't the member-berries itself. OVER-DOING IT, CORRUPTING the lore, cramming things in where it jars you out of the story -- those are the only problems with "member berries". Explain to me why "member berries" is inherently a movie sin. If it FITS IN WELL, is SUBTLE, and INFREQUENT...then who cares? My kids and I noticed the hobbit likeness and we were all grins. We loved it. It wasn't in-your-face, it didn't clash with Tolkien's world, nor did it destroy anything about the Hobbits in the movies.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Did you watch the whole video? Part of my complaint is that some of the callbacks are part of unnecessary sub plots.

[@jonathonfrazier6622]

Hey its not 1 am. What gives?

[@davidguerrero7066]

My thoughts exactly I feel betrayed !!!

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Gotta strike while the iron is hot lol

[@MTB214]

I may check out the movie. 🍿 I saw the original cartoon lotr movies. McFarlane’s (the creator of spawn and venom) toy company is making the action figures from this film. It’s $20 each or $65 for the bundle of 4 figures and build a figure.

[@jonathonfrazier6622]

@MTB214 Nothing will ever beat those original Rankin Bass productions. I will definitely go watch this. There will probably be plenty to complain about but I'm sure I will be able to cherrypick something enjoyable out of it. Anyway the competition has set a woefully low bar so I hope it will prove to be at least a mild success.

[@MrBulbasaurlover]

@@TolkienLorePodcastI'm in a different timezone than usual and it was actually midnight when it dropped 😂 Authentic experience

[@PleaseNThankYou]

I have disdain for a script that focuses on a character of little value, for the sake of Feminism.

[@djohnston6856]

Get a grip.

[@ruddyrutherford]

Tell us your an incel without saying it

[@PleaseNThankYou]

@djohnston6856 For the sake of Feminism, ( a hybrid form of Marxism... which is bedfellows of Communism). So, no. No further grip of the issue is needed. You should read more.

[@SirBoggins]

​@PleaseNThankYou Marxism had existed long before feminism and had only influences on feminism within the USSR (1920s-1990s). Marxism demands a stateless, classless society. Feminism (at the end of the day) supports the equality in opportunity and treatment of the sexes in general. Feminism supported this ideal from the 1890s-1920s when women wanted to vote. You should be the one reading more instead of using culture war language.

[@PleaseNThankYou]

@SirBoggins it's you, Sir, who are not keeping up.

[@Lexi-Eve161]

Solid analysis. I enjoyed the movie despite the deviations, and despite the weird shit. I give it a 7.5 out of 10 myself. I'd watch it again for sure.

[@Crafty_Spirit]

I'd agree with that mostly though I think the film would be better if most of what happens between Helm's demise and Wulf's death would have been cut out, the film became rather tiring at that point

[@_-.Everlast.-_]

It's not anime lol, it's a cartoon.

[@dmdebruijn]

Megovanen!

[@seanmiller5460]

I actually liked it. Couple issues with the animation style and questionable cameos... NOT ENOUGH HELM HAMMERHAND!!! But certainly one I look forward to seeing again.

[@aramiscalcutt]

D word? What’s that?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Damn

[@aramiscalcutt]

What really? That’s an unspeakable word on KZbin now? That’s hard to believe. Silly.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

@aramiscalcutt I doubt KZbin cares but I assume kids might be in earshot of my video and keep my videos G-rated as much as possible.

[@aramiscalcutt]

@@TolkienLorePodcastokay. I think however that the word “damn” is generally accepted as G-rated. It certainly isn’t censored in G-rated movies or on broadcast television. Maybe we just come from very different social circles.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

@aramiscalcutt what G rated film have you seen with that word used?

[@nicholasmorre7371]

Glad this is flopping :) stop bastardizing Tolkien

[@Spartan1312]

I will never watch another Girl boss movie the rest of my life, Hollywood has burned that bridge. TY for your review.

[@squaeman_2644]

I mean just look at the symbolism in Mad Max, Wonder Woman and Rings of Power where you have scenes of incompetent men have to lift the perfect heroine up to save the day... They have it to the point women are replacing men... But the funny thing is, isn't replacing feminine with masculine qualities only admitting they think men are better than women? 😅

[@johannesponzio178]

Thanks for your review! Liked and subbed. Personally I was dreadfully disappointed! 😢 5/10, which for a lotr movie is unacceptable in my book.

[@ipercalisse579]

Now Im curious about how Rings of Power scored for you... for me it was unqualified😂 I didn't watch WoTR yet

[@johannesponzio178]

@@ipercalisse579 Hehe ROP was a 1/10 😅 1 point is awarded for good visuals and good music. The rest was unbearable. I hope you enjoy WoTR if you watch it. Not for me though. 😌

[@visotoo3129]

From what I understand, New Line had to release something within 10 years of the last Hobbit film (12-17-14) in order to retain the LOTR film rights

[@Trencher1375]

"I not sure why they put that line about her not appearing in any songs in there" Its because the movie is about Hera. Its a fan fiction level story about the self insert shield maiden mother and rebellious princess. Hera is a name chosen because the authors of this fan fiction dont get the difference between Greek mythology and the world of Tolkien. And they want to "fix" the perceived injustices towards the Goddess Hera by making her a cool character. Then combine that with the anime directors love for fighting women movies. (He made blood the last vampire who is a movie about a scoolgirl fighting vampires) Then you got this movie which is just using the cool story of Helm as an launching point to get Hera to be a franchise. That is why she will go to Gandalf and tell him about the rings and then do quests for him. Its a set up to make more movies about Hera just as the recent Mad Max movies have just been a set up to make Furiosa movies. This is an unholy combination of chick fight flick for fetishists and a feminist creed about the evils of marriage and how stupid men are since they all should have listened to Hera in the first place. Not just a fan fic level trash heap.

[@andeeleininger5968]

This movie sounds like a s**t show. Glad I didn’t make plans to watch it.

[@mr.s2005]

6/10 for the quality of the movie on its own. 4/10 for being a poor adaption of the actual story. The excuse for her not having a name in Rohan's history....is very stupid. Even with the reasoning that she never cared about ruling, what legitimate excuse is there that her own nation would forget her accomplishments and give them to someone else.She did selfishly decides to abandon her country when it took generations for it to recover...which is probably why they rewrote that part of Rohan's history. Done as an act of revenge for her running away from helping with the recovery. Not like I don't think the movie could have worked with her as the POV, since she could have played a small part, but they made everything big happen evolve around her...when she was a unnamed one sentence character, which Tolkien made clear was an insignificant character. Helm didn't punch Freca for proposing marriage, it was because Freca threatened him the music and voice acting was great, the writing wasn't.

[@havtheroc]

I don't really give a rat's behind about the story because there functionally isn't one. It's a something from nothing story, like many unfaithful adaptations. The part I take issue with is a moral one. According to the internet sleuths, a great number of very overworked animation sweatshops put this film together at an inhuman crunch.

[@leonardodavinci7425]

Seven out of 10 seems very high considering how unimpressed you sound LOL Rings of Power is at best a 5 out 10 show.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

7 to me means I could watch it again, not that it’s great. 6 is barely good enough to watch once; below that I consider it bad.

[@Alfonzridesagain]

I don't like anime aesthetically, and I don't like girl boss story lines, so not keen to be honest.

[@MWhaleK]

Releasing a movie this long this late in the year is bothersome.

[@Peak_Aussieman]

This show sucked. Even if it weren't insufferably woke, it'd still be terrible. Boo! Booo! Ooooo!

[@squaeman_2644]

I think when we have the Lord of the rings as a standard, we've grown tired of the straight up mediocrity being pushed into the public for them to just clap their hands like seals... Isn't it sad there was a time when authors like Tolkien and Lewis were alive... Who do we have like that now? Where's our culture gone? Tolkien will literally be the best author of the past two centuries... Perhaps three...

[@monkeymox2544]

​@@squaeman_2644I love Tolkien. He is my favourite author. But it is absurd to say "where has our culture gone", there are so many incredible authors alive today, inside and outside the fantasy genre.

[@Peak_Aussieman]

@@monkeymox2544 What? Like the post modernist morally grey degenerate bilge of George R Martin? Ha! No the boi is actually correct. All of modernity is sloppy, and slovenly.

[@squaeman_2644]

​​​@@monkeymox2544Name one that even holds a candle to the intellectual heavy weight Tolkien... Who? Brandon Sanderson? JK Rowling? George RR Martin? Neil Gaimon? Don't make me laugh... If there is talent it's obscure and not widely popular... In the 20th century we had authors like Tolkien, Lewis, Paul Herbert, Robert E Howard, HP Lovecraft juxtaposed by whatever we have now... That's why I question where our culture has gone because not only was what was in the Public good, it actually taught about the nature of good and evil and humanity while now it's just moral relativism and shallow, baseless nuance...

[@monkeymox2544]

​@@squaeman_2644 Within fantasy: China Meiville, Robin Hobb, Margaret Atwood, Steven Erikson, V. E. Schwab, Madeline Miller, Guy Gavriel Kay... just to name a few of my personal favorites. None of those authors are shallow, they all have exceptional prose, and they all write intelligently, exploring very deep themes. Outside of fantasy (some on this list do also dip into fantasy and Sci Fi), I don't even know where to begin. There are hundreds of critically acclaimed English-language authors, writing amazing works of fiction. Kazuo Ishiguro, Hilary Mantel, Ian McEwan, Sally Rooney, and Maggie O'Farrell are among some of my favorites. Again, it would be bizarre to describe any of these writers as shallow. Tolkien certainly gives a perspective on the nature of good and evil, but he doesn't have the final word on it. I suspect that you're confusing _different_ approaches that you disagree with, with shallowness. Which is a mistake. I think that Tolkien's philosophy, his theology, his whole ontology, is part of what makes his work so incredibly special... but I also disagree with a great deal of it. Which is okay.

[@kkirT]

The animation was poor, the backgrounds were beautiful for the most part but some of the character art (horse in the beginning for example) was also simply badly drawn. I don't care if they mix different technologies to achieve something pretty, but some CGI effects were distracting because they were so low FPS. Usually when an anime series get a movie, the movie is much better animated than this. Look at Cowboy Bebop the series vs the movie for a classic example. Trying not to spoil anything, but another issue is that you have a medium where you draw things. If you draw something that is of size X, that thing can be anything. So why are so many things small in scope. Very small groups, few individuals involved (and not because they are so powerful, I'm talking non-descript soldiers and so on). You can in most scenes count everyone fighting on screen. This feels so weird in contrast with other LotR media depicting similar events. The voice acting and/or script was really weak at points. If you watch it again, count how many scenes end with a generic one-liner. Some character says a statement or asks a question, and they get a stoic, cheesy reply you've heard in a million movies and shows before and the scene ends. Best case it feels like a genre parody, worst case it just feels uninspired and derivative. THE MOVIE IS WAY TOO LONG FOR ITS PLOT! I like slow moving, simple animes like what Studio Ghibli typically offers, but there were points I almost struggled to stay awake because a slow moving anime needs beautiful art and animation, good musical support and more emotive voice acting than live action. They should almost chew the scenery verbally to make the drawn scenes come to life. The movie could easily be cut down by an hour, at least 45 minutes, and that's coming from someone who likes watching extended edition LotR. The added references were for the most part contrived and clear winks at the audience, breaking the fourth wall almost. It was unnecessary, contributed nothing to the film and just padded runtime for no reason. Some references were very natural and fit with the story, but if you watch the movie you'll know the ones I'm talking about. I usually go see fantasy movies twice in the theater just because I enjoy them so much but this one will actually be the first time in a long time that one time is enough. Maybe I'll watch it again because there are parts worth seeing in this, but I might hold out for a fan edit like the wonderful 4 hour edit of the Hobbit trilogy.

[@stigkenobi7525]

No actual Tolkien fan would ever support this travesty.

[@monkeymox2544]

Actual Tolkien fan here. I have pretty much read the books every year for about 25 years. I can quote large segments of The Silmarillion from memory. I absolutely adore Tolkien's work, and the films (not including The Hobbit). And I am of the opinion that the film was... okay. Wouldn't describe it as a travesty, and it is incredibly presumptuous of you to decide that anyone who 'supports' the film isn't a true fan.

[@squaeman_2644]

​​​​@@monkeymox2544You might have read the books 25 times and yet you did not understand them... Tolkien wrote about the nature of good and evil, how evil could not create, only mock. These modern films are trying to blur the lines with shallow nuance... Didn't Helm tell his daughter in the trailer she should rule the world or something to that effect? It's also just mindless entertainment throwing "member"berries to the casual fans who only enjoy Jackson's Films... Its a sin to celebrate mediocrity...

[@scranton8582]

Can you say "No True Scotsman" Fallacy?

[@Sable2322]

@@squaeman_2644you take yourself way too seriously. “It’s a sin the celebrate mediocrity.” Like bro, get over yourself. It was an OK movie. I was entertained. It’s all going to be ok lol

[@TyTyman8]

Whole movie was “Girl Power” was a let down some cool Helm stuff

[@jamiesanchez8063]

The old 90s anime style makes everyone look Japanese to me. The animation looks cheap. Even back in 2000, I thought Boyens and Walsh’s writing to go into the territory of misandry. So I didn’t expect much from this effort to hold onto the license.

[@YouTubeShillApologist]

Box office flop and B cinemascore

[@dee-taylor]

But girlboss, man. Patriarchy and such.

[@classyname42]

it is absolutely wild that you think you're not getting the story of Helm Hammerhand. That is such a bad faith interpretation of this movie. and to be so smug about it as well...

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

I didn’t say that, so….

[@classyname42]

@@TolkienLorePodcast @21:05 you say those words explicitly

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

@classyname42 the words came out of my mouth but the context makes clear that what I’m saying is that the story isn’t about him as the main character or even a POV character. Yes, we get as much in the movie about Helm as we get in the book, but the movie is Hera’s story, not Helm’s.