The Life of Thranduil | Before & After The Hobbit - Tolkien Lore Video

[@Landstalker1999]

Thranduil could've been one of those mediocre, minor elf character of Tolkien's universe. But Lee Pace made him one of the most alluring elf characters of the Tolkien's world.

[@kumabear3529]

Absolutely, I would even go as far as saying that his scenes are what make the movies watchable

[@Nunelii]

he couldn't have been mediocre. Never

[@That1Outlander]

@@kumabear3529 idk,the camaraderie between bilbo and the dwarves is inspiring. So too with Gandalf and bilbo. But the books do win out. People love a visual representation and In my own opinion I think it isn't half bad. Both "trilogies" are very incorrect but what we got was what the director literally had to work with. Some decisions were poor with what he had but it Still whisps you away to a magical world where you feel,just for a moment,that our world isn't half bad.

[@envoltaemla6652]

to use the word "mediocre" to describe any Toklien character that isn't a main one is.. offensive.

[@lohiasam3495]

Mediocre? He is an Elven King of the dark Elves who survived through the years of war... he is like the nerd IT guy in your office; you think you can type away on that computer without acknowledging that this other dude set up the network cables, firewall, antivirus and internet access.

[@Nimno74]

I love that you pointed how well he did, even though he was the only elven ruler who didn't have a ring of power.

[@lopirobinson1991]

It must be especially tragic for elves when a loved one dies. It’s not expected. Where as for us it is sad yes, we all know our loved ones will pass. It’s not so with elves. A greater loss. In the movies I think they did a good job at making Thranduil somewhat traumatized. He doesn’t want to spare his warriors for others. He doesn’t want to lose his people.

[@ladyalaina42]

Lopi, how could it be traumatic when the entire 1st and 2nd age was one battle after another. Many Kings were killed as well.

[@ArtyBuggy]

@@ladyalaina42 Elves live forever. Losing someone is losing an potential eternity with them. You live with the losses forever. Humans dislike change, Elves have to deal with it on a much much larger scale.

[@trekstarsam2494]

@@ArtyBuggy when an elf is slain, they are sent to the halls of mandos where manwe judges their actions then they are reincarnated in new bodies to live in Valinor. So apparently elves can reunite with dead family members and loved ones if they sailed west. That’s why I believe thranduil eventually left, to reunite with his father and son, as Legolas sailed west with gimli.

[@iamnoro]

@@ArtyBuggy no. Elves reincarnated on valinor with new body. So their sorrow only last in a blink of an eye since they'll live forever bound to arda.

[@lordwellingtonthethird8486]

But he will see her again in valanor

[@JT4runner]

I have always felt that Thranduil of all the many characters we meet in Tolkien's world is the one I relate to most, in spite of the sparse details on him. I'm also of the opinion that after fighting so hard to maintain his realm and outlast the darkness of Sauron that he would be more of a mind to stay in Middle Earth and enjoy the fruits of his labor, so to speak, instead of packing up and leaving. I like to imagine that Elvenking Thranduil rules from the Woodland Realm, drinking his Dorwinion wine and partying with his good people evermore, carrying the memory of all that has been done to secure such prosperous times.

[@tristansmith5587]

@B a n d C What you're describing is exactly why Tolkien stopped at the Third Age. The darkness was defeated and he didn't want to give in to the idea that mankind is inherently evil. It was his respect for his readers and his own world that he didn't let it go on to become a jaded, edgy mess. It helps that after about 6,000 years we land in the modern day, as the Shire is merely Oxford. Evil remains small scale, never so grand again. He also did make the world bigger with the Silmarillion and other Legendarium works until his death before he could finish any of it. If you think the Amazon show is a sign of respect and not just a quick cash grab, pissing on what Tolkien wrote and intended for the characters, just like everything else they've made recently than I'm not sure you really paid attention. See: Shadow of War/Mordor, mobile games, The Hobbit trilogy... Using the character names and the settings and made in the most predatory way to get your dollar. Are the Shadow games fun? Yes. Are mobile games bad? Probably an unfair question. Was The Hobbit that bad? As an adaptation, yes. You're free to enjoy anything, but to say they make these products out of respect is the farthest stretch of the truth. I'm angry at your words, not you particularly. Lot of regular complaints thrown Tolkien's way.

[@tristansmith5587]

@B a n d C I hope you will not be disappointed

[@noahfranke467]

@@tristansmith5587 i was, in fact, not disappointed, despite being very sceptical.

[@dv6342]

@B a n d C this didn’t age well…

[@GoldenHeartIncorporated]

I’d say in personality I relate to Beleg or Gwindor - ironic of their meeting.. because my husband is a Túrin Turambar if I’ve ever seen as great as he can be his pride and he too will admit it, is his own undoing to just jump to angry defense, for nothing.. but of course every man for 3 for sure generations directly in the family all have that fools pride and anger.. I feel like Cirdan sometimes actually yeah i cab relate to some really awesome heroic characters and I just keep holding that light being the messenger - without a thank you or anyone ever realizing.. but I’m okay with that many of us can relate to that :-)

[@kongsied4279]

Man in a perfect world, I would love to see Lee Pace play Fëanor, dude killed it as Thranduil.

[@tolkienuntangled]

Yeah, Lee Pace's performance was one of my favourite parts of the Hobbit trilogy.

[@creativecolours2022]

@@tolkienuntangled I think that he overacted in this role. Probably because the script was written this way but his performance was a bit over the top. But his on screen appearance was the most accurate depiction of how elves are supposed to look like. Tall and intimidating. Lee Pace would have looked great as Fëanor too.

[@lordwellingtonthethird8486]

@@creativecolours2022 they also butchered his character

[@creativecolours2022]

@@lordwellingtonthethird8486 Yes they did. I didn't like the Hobbit movies and I switched watching the fan edited versions where some people took the movies and re edited them according to the Hobbit book. But they nailed the appearance of the Elves in the Hobbit movies probably because they already knew how to do it. It was the second time that they had to show elves and they were more familiar with the concept.

[@Landstalker1999]

I loved Lee Pace as Thranduil. I want to see more of Lee Pace and Thranduil. I think the guy playing Aemond from House of the Dragons (the guy with the eye patch) would play Feanor very well.

[@anaknipara]

I had always imagined that Thranduil will leave eventually. There was this poem that Tolkien had penned from 1930s but was published in the 1960s named the Last Ship describing 3 elves with crown in their heads leaving western shores. By 4th age I can only recall only 3 Elf Lords that remains in Middle Earth, Cirdan in Gray Haven, Celeborn of Lothlorien and Thranduil in Greenwood. I had always just imagined the 3 as the Elves described in the poem.

[@belleretiredaccount]

This is a wonderful take! Went back to read the poem and now I'm convinced this is actually what happened.

[@cris_ad]

A ship with golden beak and oar and timbers white came gliding; swans went sailing on before, her tall prow guiding Fair folk out of Elvenland in silver-grey were rowing, and three with crowns she saw there stand with bright hair flowing.

[@pipsqueex]

@@cris_ad this makes me sad. i know it must have been lonely for them but i hate to see the very last elves in middle earth leave. beautiful poem indeed.

[@planetxmetal]

If New Line ever wanted to return to Middle Earth I’d love for them to chronicle the wars in the north. Make Thranduil the main character, watch him grow from a young prince, to going to war in the South, then to becoming king and defeating the invasion at the same time as Pelanor fields. Plus, they might still be able to use PJ’s footage as context.

[@rodaster5049]

I don't usually comment on KZbin, but I just have to commend you on your great work. This is hands down the best Tolkien lore channel out there. Your videos give me a much-needed respite during a tough day, I watch your videos on almost every break. It's a crime you don't have more followers. Take care!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thank you so much! I'm really glad you enjoy the videos!

[@kylewebb989]

Agreed. This is some of the clearest and best narrated Tolkien explanation and exploration out there.

[@joseaustin2692]

Keep up the good work!!!

[@archmage_of_the_aether]

I also rarely comment on KZbin, but I gotta say, you nailed this comment 👍

[@katepeck2384]

Hollywood should make a movie about what Thranduil was going through while Frodo and company were taking the ring to be destroyed. Only Thranduil's part in all that. Should make it soon so Lee Pace can play the part again.

[@Cewdipie]

He's very handsome as thranduil 🥰

[@katepeck2384]

@@boynezijlstra4244 Well now the way things are going right now, you could be right.

[@theghostofsabertache9049]

Hollywood should leave Tolkien’s work the hell alone they can’t make anything faithful to the lore so they should make nothing at all. Half of the hobbit trilogy was fanfiction.

[@-breakofdawn-]

Hollywood should stay away from Tolkien’s works. Peter Jackson did such a great job bringing the characters to life, and he’s the only one who should touch Tolkien related material - regardless of what book enthusiasts say, I enjoyed the movies. Middle Earth is in New Zealand, not Hollywood.

[@katepeck2384]

@@-breakofdawn- Maybe you're right. I would love for Peter Jackson to do the movie. Whoever invests in it would make a lot of money.

[@SuperBIGGY84]

He definitely my favorite elf in all the movies

[@CryMyName100]

this was a bombastic video. Thranduil was always one of my fav characters. now I know why..

[@Iondaime100]

i like the fact that that tranduil didn't insist to get back his father's place dol gouldour or the entire mirkwood he accepts the deal for peace i can tell you the noldors would have been bitching over it without a doubt

[@Silmarillion784]

Telling the story of Thranduil is very sad and exciting thanks so much for bringing memories to an retired director

[@abelingaw5070]

At least the guy didn't need a ring of power to preserve his kingdom, and yet they endure for who knows how long, probably until the second song of the Ainur. In comparison to Rivendell and Lothlorien who diminished with their lords after the destruction of the one ring, Woodlands would continue to thrive on its own.

[@GOLTEB]

His role may be small but sure he's the most fabulous

[@Quot.homines.tot.sentetiae]

The ending was awsome! It just made me want to go out and find that anchent forest, find the elves. Brilliant...

[@camillosteuss]

Keep in mind regarding the secrecy of the Lorien and Rivendel that those were the houses of the rings of power and neither Elrond nor Galadriel were dumb enough to flaunt and celebrate their realms, but instead used them as anchors of the light in the world that was growing dark once more... As even Thranduil felt that Sauron was not ended nor done with his work, so too must have the elder of that race, more wise and learned in Saurons ways, and they would remain secret until they were sure that no grasp of evil hand had remained to cowl their rings and bend them towards chaos...

[@MikeyAllenPoe]

Thranduils wife was captured by the Orks and tortured, ultimately leading to her demise. In the Hobbit, the white star jewels that Thranduil wants back from the Dwarfs were his. He had them sent to the Dwarfs because they were talented Craftsman & he wanted them to make necklaces or crown for his wife. But she was captured and so he didn't pay, instead he just wanted his jewels back. I think to use them to bargain for his wife's freedom. That's why he's so stern. That's why he hates the thought of love because he lost the love of his life.

[@sk8shred]

Best Tolkien lore video channel on YT, period. Keep doing these things!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks so much! I'm really glad you enjoy them!

[@sk8shred]

@@tolkienuntangled No you thanks! Can you perhaps do one on Rhun and all those foreign lands to the east, like Hildorien and that mountain range were there supposedly lives another dwarf clan. It's sad that there's so little information about it.

[@tolkienuntangled]

@@sk8shred I actually have a video all about the origins of the Dwarves scheduled, which will talk about the Dwarves of the Red Mountains and the east. The next video after that will be on the origins of Men, which will talk about Hildorien and Men's migration from the east into the west. They'll be released in about a month or so 🙂

[@emmacasarez1250]

I have to say your videos are amazing. I love the videos on the first age and Silmarillion. It’s helped me explain the story better to my 9 year old son who is a budding Tolkien fan and he just loves the content too

[@tolkienuntangled]

That's so awesome that your nine year old is a Tolkien fan. Good for him!

[@michaelrue1400]

He's "very old." Understatement of the age.

[@celestejohnston6613]

Love this video. I think Thranduil is a lot more complex than is thought by many. Thank you for pointing out that Thranduil has no elven ring to help protect Mirkwood. It is him, the strength and force of personality and his warriors that protect Mirkwood. He is tramatized by the tragedies in his long life and makes his way through life with those in tow. Fascinating character. BTW, I absolutely loved Lee Pace's Thranduil he so closely resembles the Thranduil from my imagination and all the fan fiction I had written before the Hobbit movies came out. Thank you for this video!!!

[@leaiplussize]

Instead of that insult to token of a show Ring of power, The story of Thranduil as told in this video would make a great series. We could see him raise Legolas (perhaps a single father) to become its king and beyond .

[@riennekoh3901]

Wow thanks for making Tolkien lore more interesting & easier to digest, Love the Thranduil played by Lee Pace - Lee nailed it!

[@sharoncraker8393]

As always, you have made everything much more clear. Many thanks, much respect.

[@jandunn169]

Thank you....you always add so much to my understanding of Tolkien's work and that is great because I don't want it to end after reading....

[@Paulies-dn38416]

Like it? I loved it, you have a good voice and make Tolkien so accessible. I've been a fan since I was 12 and I'm 41 now an I have lots of aha moments listening to you! I wish there was more on Tom Bombadil and the Ringwraiths, perhaps a big live stream discussion on those??

[@mishaelhere]

thanks for the vid! i always thought that thranduil is under-appreciated as a great elf-lord.

[@terenceheusaff967]

I just love listening to your stories after a long day of work. Bravo 👏

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks!

[@kathleenhensley5951]

There is a deep well of grief at the center of Tolkien's legendarium... Even the rule of the elves must end. Life is transitory, and endings come. Life is always a tragedy when the story ends.

[@jdatkin8601]

Another fantastic video. I love the patient, conversational style and of course how can you discuss Thranduil without first discussing Oropher? Thanks for your continued hard work.

[@freydycat1416]

I like to think he did sail west eventually, even if it was well into the forth age, simply because his only known family member went to Valinor. If he has other living family members, that might not be the case.

[@carlcramer9269]

My distant memory of the battle of five armies, I think Tharanduril had seen to his army; no longer are they lacking in armor or weapons of war.

[@rbjensen530]

Considering Thranduil's reaction to the war of the last alliance, imagine how Elrond felt when Isildur refused to destroy the ring

[@Tyler0789]

This is the line that I wish Tolkien spent more time on with the lineages. Legolas < Thranduil < Oropher < who? How do they tie into the broader lineages among the teleri

[@deborahcolbert8097]

Amazing information. Love your channel ❤️

[@tolkienuntangled]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@samonetaz]

Spectacular! You really make this subject come alive! I will def watch your other videos.

[@Ouroboros_FuFu]

Favorite elf bc of the actor.

[@Sandbarfight]

Thank you for all your hard work.

[@laurenbernstein621]

I think Tolkien said when Celeborn departed, the last memory of the Elder Days went with him. But whether that means Thranduil was born in the Second Age or Thranduil left for the Undying Lands isn't clear. And the image of a "lesser" Elven King, not in isolation but slowly dwindling, I think matches the picture we get first in the Hobbit - a merry folk, little troubled by war - almost as if someone saw that kingdom in person...(just mind your manners when going through their realm!)

[@kamion53]

I may be wrong, but I think that Tolkien at the time he wrote the Hobbit had yet fully fleshed out the character, history and lore of the Elves. The Elvenking is much closer to English folklore then the Noldor, Sindar or Vaynar ever were. Tolkien made early drafts and they echo in the Hobbit when Elrond indentifies the swords..."made by mighty elves that are now gnomes." Oldest name Tolkien used in his drafts for the Noldor was the Gnomes.

[@mon_moi]

It would be kinda tragic if Thranduil stayed behind in Mirkwood forever until he diminished to the point of becoming a wandering phantom haunting the forest, similar to the Erlking of Goethe's poem. That's why I like to think he went to the West. The idea of him and his people staying behind and diminishing is too bleak

[@minnumseerrund]

It seems likely that Cirdan (and whoever accompanied him) is the last elf to leave Middle Earth. That's basically his whole stick. Cirdan the Shipwright, keeper of Narya, the ring of the inner fire (hope and resilience). IIRC there's a passage in the Silmarilion about how he builds mighty ships but he doesnt get to sail into the West - badly paraphrased, and I cant remember if it's just stated or if it's an outright command by one of the Valar. But yea, Thranduil (and the Silvan) are more tied to Middle Earth than Valinor, likely to remain and slowly fade from the common world of Men.

[@ghostdreamer7272]

Cirdan is the last Elf of the Elder Days, with Celeborn, but Tolkien also writes that some Elves will stay here until they fade even into present day. That definitely seems to be the fate of Thranduil that’s implied. Since Tolkien wanted a deeper mythology for England, I wouldn’t be surprised if Tolkien personally imagined Thranduil as Oberon. Also, with how detached Legolas seems of Thranduil,how playful and easygoing, I think Legolas was probably the youngest of many children, not ever expected to have the responsibility of king if something happened to Thranduil.

[@TJPactronix]

What a great video. Thank you.

[@thestraightroad305]

Thranduil and Oropher living in Doriath may have contributed to their distrust of the Noldor, because of the crimes committed by Feanor against the kinsmen of Thingol, ruler of Doriath. Thingol went so far as to ban the speech of the Noldor from being spoken in his kingdom. I think Oropher and Thranduil likely carried this with them as they settled in Greenwood after the ruin of Beleriand and Tolkien even alludes to their wariness of the Noldor settling in Lorien, across the river from their realm. The refusal of Oropher to place himself under the command of Gil-galad during the Last Alliance was likely because of this distrust. This makes the settlement of Thranduil and Celeborn (with the Beornings) of the regions around Mirkwood after the fall of Sauron more significant as a matter of peace and possible friendship.

[@mariavi33]

Also, they were most likely survivors of the second kinslaying in Doriath and maybe even the third in Sirion, so Oropher’s decision was likely a trauma reaction. Of course, it was still a huge mistake, and it is unfair to lump all the Noldor in with the feanorians (especially considering that the survivors of Nargothrond were accepted into Doriath and the survivors of Gondolin were accepted into Sirion, so some of the victims of the second and third kinslayings were likely Noldor) however trauma reactions can be pretty irrational and even harmful

[@LordTelperion]

To be fair, the Grey Elves, while technically Moriquendi (having not seen the Light of the Two Trees) were still Eldar of the Great Journey and in-between High and Dark power-wise, having been uplifted for an epoch by the presence of Thingol and Melian.

[@trekstarsam2494]

Both Oropher and thranduil lived in doriath before the fall. I’m hoping we see Prince thranduil in the rings of power at some point and learn about the rift between Oropher and Gil-galad.

[@victors.3633]

Such a great video! Thank you 😊

[@cristopherfernandez5765]

I love and listened to all your videos. I'm a big fan

[@jenkhemhuffersanonymous3990]

Just off of how he treated the people of dale in the hobbit in the books I think he's a very nice guy he's just very damaged he lost his dad and most of his(not his technically at the time) people in 1 battle

[@jameshitt3263]

Well done, sir! Thranduil never seemed like that much of an interesting character, but how wrong I was. Very relatable character, too.

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks!

[@rohuriel]

I really enjoy all your videos. Thank you. Although, I’ve watched them out of order due to not seeing how to find the beginning.

[@cameronjones8641]

Love this video!

[@pentegarn1]

I'm so glad to see someone paint The Woodland realm in a more accurate way....and give Thranduil a bit of a break.

[@snazzie-designz]

Thank you so, so much for this video. It has answered several questions that I've always wondered about whilst reading LotR. I always wondered why Thranduil and his people (except Legolas) were not at the battle at Minas Tirith and why there were no dwarves (except Gimli) there too. It was hinted at by Gandalf that the people of Legolas and Gimli had their own battles to fight but it never really went into details about it. Similarly I wondered why there were so few black riders at that battle because I got the impression that all 9 were not there. Now looking at this video it explains that some of the black riders were attacking Thranduil, Beorn and Loth Lorien which would explain the absence of all of the above. However the black riders were all around Rivendell chasing Frodo when Gandalf said that the people of Legolas and Gimli had their own battles to fight so they must already have been under some sort of attack even while the Fellowship was being made in the first place? Is there a book in the series that covers what was happening with them while the ring was being carried to Mordor?

[@tolkienuntangled]

There's not a specific book, but in the appendices we learn about the conflicts of the dwarves of Erebor and Men of Dale against the Easterling, and the battles of the Mirkwood elves against the orcs.

[@snazzie-designz]

@@tolkienuntangled Ok great. Thanks so much.

[@timthorson52]

I saw on another video that Thranduil and his father may have distrusted the other major elf groups, like Galadriel and Elrond due to an old issue with the Noldor elves, of which they are a part of. The Noldorin elves kills Teleri elves for boats, and the Sindar elves are descended from them, possibly pretty closely related.

[@Ari33sa]

Love him. Love it. Love the video. Honestly, since I'm not that big of a LotR I never knew about him before the Hobbit movies. But he was such a charming asshole there ^^ thanks a lot for telling me more. Knowing all this, I genuinely think they did a good job in the movies portraying him, showing him to be someone afraid of Sauron and the evil he brings, and careful/wary of endangering his people/realm, but also prideful and a little jealous and petty

[@carlbernard7615]

That was actually really cool. I never cared much for Thranduil but this has certainly changed my view of him, Even though I consider myself a huge Tolkien fan, I actually never knew or have forgotten that stuff at the end going into the fourth age. Very interesting and well presented my friend.

[@theeffete3396]

I like how Oropher's ineptitude of open warfare harkens back to Thingol's decision to turtle in Doriath during the majority of the First Age after a grieviously victorious battle. Seems that did no favors for Oropher's understanding of how to fight effectively in a similar type of battle.

[@murqouttt8188]

i can see why Oropher didnt like Gil-galad given that he was probably much much older and from doriath originally he probably saw himself and his kingship as greater than Gil-galads

[@therra1101]

The third age is basically Sauron trying to destroy everything from behind the scenes. Arnor is destroyed by the Witch King, Mirkwood is slowly darkened and filled with monsters, Erebor is taken by Smaug and Gondor is facing assaults all the time. The end of the third age is a really bad time to be one of the free peoples.

[@AleksandraS.R.]

Thank you for this very illuminating video. I understand much better the story of Thranduil, who is the elf/ elf king that I understand very well, connect to very closely to, and are very fond of. There is explained in another channel who are elves, and their characteristics, very interesting. I admire his dedication to his people, his kin, and his strong ruling without a ring. And after what he has been through, I understand his heart was closed and covered by ice. Nevertheless what appeals to me is the change, the breaking of all the ice right after the battle of five armies (in the film though). When he starts to see with his inner eye, with his soul. He gives honor to Legolas too. The other battle together with Celeborn, against the orcas army, I’m glad brings victory. ❤🎉 There is an indication, if I’m not mistaken, in the book, the he travels to the undying land as one of the three elf kings…. In the 4. age. Around year 120…. Well, I’m glad that some things in Tolkien’s books remain mystery. We don’t need to know everything, and may use our imagination. And there is no need to exaggerate with making many films about Middle Earth, since that would deprive many characters of their mystery, enigmas, history, and us of our imagination and fantasy. Elves don’t need to be shown fully, as there is magic and mystery within them.❤🎉 I am mixing the films and books together, but they kind of add to each other. 😊😊

[@chrism5971]

His wife is actually mentioned by Legolas in 5 armies when he and Tauriel we're outside of Gundabad, he said she died there

[@sharroon7574]

I think he was saying that as far as the books are concerned she was never said to have died.

[@DSnalomega]

The most handsome elf in the middle Earth real life action.

[@kathrinepap2090]

I won't lie, I fell down the rabbit hole because of trying to figure out Thanduil's ancestry 😆💖💖💖

[@LordTelperion]

I appreciate the similarities/echos of The Union of Maedhros in The War of the Last Alliance: Gil-galad is to Maedhros as Oropher is to Gwindor (or maybe Fingon), etc.

[@TBlacky]

I wish we had more on him like especially in the movies for someone who is so icy n experienced we know close to like nothing tbh

[@Owlr4ider]

Indeed Thranduil's realm is one of the last remaining Elven realms, those that survived into the 4th age. The 3 that were protected by the 3 Elven Rings of Power were desolate, but as you said Thranduil's realm wasn't one of them. Neither were the realms of the Avari Elves, those who back during the awakening of the Elves refused Orome's call to travel to Valinor. These Elves remained near where they were born, in the eastern part of middle earth, around the areas of Dorwinion and Rhun. Not much is said about these Elves at all, but their realms too probably survived the third age as they were pretty untouched by it.

[@MarleyFett]

I love Thranduil, his story is tragic, I think he doesn't get enough recognition.🙏😥 Imagine being immortal and seeing what he had to witness. He clearly loved his kind.

[@Phuskooz]

Excited for the new series!

[@quantum1141]

Rubbish

[@greenmachine6638]

Ah, I was just wondering about Thranduil. In the hobbit movie, he shows OakenShield his dragon wound, but I wondered if there was any actual evidence of that. Looks like officially no, unless there were dragons present at the war of the last alliance.

[@tolkienuntangled]

We're never told of Thranduil (or any elves of Mirkwood) encountering any dragons other than Smaug. I guess the filmmakers just wanted to embellish Thranduil's backstory.

[@jlistetson]

After I saw DoS, I suspected he attempted to take the mountain between the the time when the dwarves fully abandoned the Mountain/surrounding area and the retaking of erebor but never found any proof

[@greenmachine6638]

@@jlistetson I figured it was from a battle in the second age perhaps, maybe even the first age. Although I don't recall the timeline on the dragons that we do know about. At this point I forget exactly how old Thranduil is, but he's been around for a Long time.

[@lordwellingtonthethird8486]

Thranduil of the movies is nothing like his lore counter part

[@veljkobogdanovic609]

I don’t know but somehow i don’t think it was easy for the sindar to leave middle earth i mean they spend their whole life there it was home for them, so i like to think then when celeborn and cirdan left it would have been quite a sad moment for them

[@milliepeg01]

Love this. ❤❤

[@LusiaEyre]

Thranduil's war experience seems to mirror the Battle of the Somme, so it would be a reasonable assumption that he developed a 'shell schock,' which influenced his later actions and decision-making. However, I do find it strange that we don't get more information of his marriage and children. Neither in his context or in relation to Legolas. Thus I tend to believe Mrs Thranduil died when Legolas was very young. Also, do you think Legolas was the elvish princling that was the original recipient (or intended recipient) of the Mithril vest? I believe this is a fact from the books and what other elven princlings were around?

[@rinjiang]

is there nothing out there about that one moment from the hobbit when thranduil's face goes all scary?

[@pickybitch2707]

Gotta love a guy who goes to war for jewellery 💜

[@ezrahendog5837]

So as To Legolas' age and I think it is his actions tell us he is a young elf. He seems to show wonder at how men and dwarfs are. He doesn't act like he has been out of Mirkwood that much, I'd say he is about 200 years old.

[@termarytomcat34]

honestly he probably did leave. his son did and I don't think he is willing to be separated from his only family left

[@EeuorT]

12:25 come on, the barrels Bilbo and the dwarves escaped in made it clear.

[@TheBaronAmaruPhoenix]

Thats so epic for them to still be around with men

[@Arcad1010]

I am curious though if he returns to valinor does he still retain his status as king? How about Legolas is he still considered a prince?

[@kamion53]

Is calling Sindar Dark Elves ( Moriquendi) really correct? The Dark Elves are the elves that did not behold the light of the two trees, but the Sindar as followers of Thingol Greycloak did behold it through the medium of Thingol himself. He was one of the for ambassaders who went to Aman/Valinor. Actually all the Lindar ( or Teleri) had seen the light of the Trees shine in the faces of Elwë and Olwë. Only those undr the lead of Olwë eventually reached Aman, where they were called Teleri or Late Comers.

[@tylerberman7527]

lol when you switched from legolas back to tranduil i was like nononono its too late, you are now doing a legolas video

[@LordTelperion]

Any/all Elves that remained in the mortal world would have suffered the effects of Morgoth's Ring by now and would be little more than spirits or ghosts in our modern age, but I would love to explore Germany's Black Forest and find the old halls of the Woodland Realm, find out for sure. ;-)

[@namelytile6140]

Yay... woodland elves stayed 🫶🏾🙌🏾💯

[@lyndazema94]

Have you ever made a video about Beorn?

[@kamion53]

@7:59 ".... oropher rushed forward at the head of his most doubty warriors before Gil-Galad had given the signal for the advance...." mmmm... lack of battlefield wisdom seems inherital among the Elves of Mirkwood. In PJ the Battle of the Five Armies the Dwarves form a perfect shieldwall to break the attack of the Orc's and what do the Elves do?...... they jump over that shieldwall and attack the Orcs!!! Very impressive, clearly cooked up by PJ I thougt for the sake of drama, but very suicidal too. Till I read this... could PJ have taken inspiration from Orropher's bad leadership?

[@SK-uq6db]

what I keep wondering is this: after the drowning of Beleriand Oropher moved away with all those Sindar who would follow him. Why did these elves follow Oropher instead of Celeborn? Probably because he was married to a Noldo. But Celeborn was described to be quite closly related to Thingol, the former, mighty Sindarin King. Whereas Oropher....? Was there already a longing in the surviving Sindar to be more like "woodelves" and they chose Oropher over Celeborn due to this? Or was their dislike for Galadriel (Noldo) so enormous that they would rather follow some "lesser" leader (Oropher) than someone related to their Ex-King but married to a Noldo?

[@jg1982jg15]

I wish they would make more movies with his character

[@ThunderhawkVeronicaLazerwolf]

Based on my lack of knowledge, would it be possible to do any semblance of order to the outer Legendarium?? What do I do after The Hobbit, LOTR, Unfinished Tales, and the Silmarillion?? Where does it make the most sense to start?

[@davidthetraveler1466]

To think that somewhere in the wilderness there lies a hidden hall full of ancient elves clinging to the last bits of magic left in the forests of the world, and their leader Thranduil sits in the center of them waiting....

[@loridresser9420]

Hi, poster; is there a preferred order we should watch your videos in? I have read everything. All of Christopher’s books, JRR’s extras and his official books. But not in order. Any suggestions? Thank you.

[@Nunelii]

The fact that we know nothing about his family tree and his wife (so Legolas's mother) is really a bother for me, and also shows that no, the books aren't perfect (nothing can be). It was okay not knowing it in the Hobbit (children book) because Thranduil was technically the first elf created by Tolkien. But if you wanted to adapt it, especially after all the other elves with their lore in the LotR and other stories, you had to develop the character a bit more (what P.J and his team rightly did). You have for example to justify why there is no sign of his wife, queen and mother of one of the most important characters (plotwise), an immortal being. Her absence in the books IS a problem for anyone who want to adapt the story, and anyone who knows how to write a character would give Thranduil the background he deserves (I'm not saying he's badly written by Tolkien of course, he's just a "prototype", written first for a book meant to children). He necessarily has a wife (an elven queen no less), so WHO is she ? If we don't see her ruling beside him, WHY ? That's why we know actually nothing about Legolas. At this point he could be anything (Noldo, Sindar, Teleri, Nandor, part human, part Maia, lmao yes Maia why not??) since at least 75% of his family tree is missing.

[@Takhii]

Anyone think that thranduuil fought smaug up north and that's why his face is scarred?

[@anthonysullivan5839]

Thranduil was also traumatized by the dragons also he suffered pretty severe injuries

[@tolkienuntangled]

That was just made up for the movies. It’s not a Tolkien thing.

[@ianmhor100]

Can you make a video about by which a amount the strength if the high elves was heightened when they became high elves aka how much stronger/mightier high elves are than dark elves? It's always mentioned that high elves are more powerful because they saw the two trees but how much stronger did the light make them?

[@boddingtonsz5532]

Question for ya, Thranduil when he was talking with Thorin in the Hobbit (Movie), he shows half his face melted off. He tell of his conflicts in the North fighting dragons, this wasn’t in your video and I cannot find it in any lore. Was this a made up filler from Peter Jackson? Thanks for the Videos they are awesome, when I read Silmilarian I had to print out a map to keep everyone straight, Your movies help!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Yeah, that part of the Hobbit movie was completely made up by Peter Jackson. There's not really even anything in the books that's similar to an elf revealing an injury that they're somehow magically able to hide. There are quite a few elves who suffer disfiguring wounds in the Silmarillion, but we're never told of any of them do anything like what Thranduil does in the movie.

[@dew-me7266]

I think Thranduil and all his elves, like Lorien, did leave. Because even the nador/silvan elves answer the call and did travel in the first age, they just stopped in mirkwood and lorien. So i think the only elves were some avari that were left. But i think 1000% thranduil and silvan they left too in time they did answer the call. only avari didnt.

[@ladyalaina42]

Legolas left after king Aragorn died, taking with him dwarf Gemli as he was a part of the fellowship as he wanted to see Lady Galadriel again.

[@MarleyFett]

❤️🙏this!

[@danielprates2208]

Hey Rainbow Dave, what about that thing that appears in the movie about his scared face? It conveys the idea that he faced a/the dragon before and was left burnt in the face, which he hides. Is that a mere screenplay novelty?

[@redmagelibra2897]

I wish there was a tale of the fourth age of restoring the forest and some mechanism or magic keeping it safe from men.

[@StorytimeWithZara]

Aah loved the ending! However, if Thranduil never sailed to the Undying Lands, wouldn't he "diminish" and eventually become something akin to Dobby?