Durin's Bane | The Balrog of Moria Explained

[@eric1scooby]

The depth, intricacy, and almost realness of Tolkien lore makes me somewhat offended when people compare to Harry Potter

[@petrmaly9087]

Harry Potter is slightly expanded fanfiction of "The Worst Witch" by Jill Murphy. Rowling made it up as she wrote it, chapter by chapter, there is no logic, no depth to it's lore.

[@eric1scooby]

@@petrmaly9087 you're a wise soul!!

[@timber72]

@@petrmaly9087 Indeed. There is no unifying theme or themes; each book can stand completely on its own, with virtually zero impact on any of the others. It's kind of sad, but there you have it.

[@robertaldaron4870]

There is no comparison. None.

[@chrishammonds9872]

💯 Facts! No comparison. LOTR blows. HP is the goat 🐐

[@brohanfromrohan5771]

Gandalf wasn't wrong. Numenor was destroyed. It was gone. So when he said Mithril was only found in Moria, that was to say that's the only place it could be mined.

[@billfred9411]

I cant help but think the Valar were kind of dicks for making it so easy for humans to get access to mithril in Numenor while the dwarfs had to mine into hell and back to get there's. I am assuming the humans didn't have a super deep mine on that island and mithril was basically brought to the surface during its creation. They probably just had to dig a little bit into the mountain and bam the best metal in existence while the poor dwarfs had to dig so deep they found a balrog.

[@franconnorton7087]

The dwarves dug mithral in moria for 5000 years. Maybe the easy veins ran out first.

[@billfred9411]

@@franconnorton7087 I guess you're not wrong but mithril was not exactly something they would be finding on the regular. I would bet less then 0.0001 of the total minerals they mine was mithril. Dwarfs did not even choose Moria as a home it's just where the first dwarf Durin was placed during the creation of middle earth, similar to how the humans of Numenor were placed on that island.

[@theophrastusbombastus1359]

It was their insatiable greed, borne of the 7 rings Sauron gave to the dwarves, that caused them to dig too deep.

[@billfred9411]

@@theophrastusbombastus1359 As you said seven of the dwarf kings were given rings but that didnt make them all dig deep. Many just hoarded more treasure like what happen at the lonely mountain that led to so much treasure it attracted Smaug. Moria was the only dwarf civilization big enough to dig so deep and from what i remember it was only the actions of one or two generations of dwarf kings using a ring that led to them going so deep. The thing is dwarfs live for a long time so those corrupted dwarf kings were able to do a lot in their lifetime.

[@richardmather1906]

You left out what, to me, is the most interesting thing between Gandalf and the Balrog. When the fellowship leave the chamber, Gandalf is there by the door. He puts a shutting spell on the door. He also feel the Balrog come into the chamber, though he does not know what it is. And when the Balrog puts his hands on the door, he "perceives" the presence of both Gandalf and Gandalf's spell. And he casts a counter spell. So they can feel each other's presence without even seeing each other.

[@KorithStoneheart]

They are both Maiar

[@FU05241960]

real recognize real

[@nooneinparticular1491]

The Moria scenes in LotR: Fellowship still hold up well IMO, but the Wizard's Duel between Gandalf and Durin's Bane could easily have taken the place of the collapsing stairway sequence; that would both improved the narrative and saved screen time.

[@tomlienert882]

@@nooneinparticular1491I suspect the filmmakers didn’t think it would work as well with general audiences (and they had to appeal to a LOT more than just serious Tolkien fans) as a chase scene with lots of crumbling staircases and bridges.

[@petertaysum5563]

@@tomlienert882 PJ talks about how they had "Slime Balrog" and Gandalf battling their way up the stairs, but the CGI was prohibitively expensive. Even in the shortened version it's still up there as one the greatest film openings ever. A definite case of less is more (esp. when compared to Bolg vs Legolas in TBOTFA).

[@VoidNull9222]

Adding to Gandalf and the Balrog being each other’s opposite: Gandalf with Narya kindled hope in his companions and the other free peoples of Middle Earth. The Balrog on the other hand only brought despair and destruction to those it encountered I never put all the parallels between them together before this video, fantastic work!

[@shamurevolt]

Durin’s Bane is mythologically and also narratively the opposite of Gandalf the Grey and Sauron is mythologically and narratively the opposite of Gandalf the White.

[@cptsteele91]

​@@shamurevoltand Saruman? Well, he a bitch

[@AnonymousUser1776]

Mithril was found in Numenor and also in Valinor; However, at the time Gandalf said that mithril was only found in Moria it was true as Numenor had been destroyed and Valinor removed from the world forever.

[@DreZzBE]

True so Gandalf was right tbf

[@paulbrickler]

Also, Valinor and Numenor were not technically 'Middle Earth'.

[@GaiusMarius65]

Exactly!

[@T1ttyLedz]

I was about to comment something similar. I find it odd this was overlooked.

[@T1ttyLedz]

@View Bot if that's the case then so is the hobbit and lord of the rings by Peter jackson; asog was dead but brought back for the film, aragon had the sword and let the dead army free of their oath earlier on, Tom bombadil wasn't involved, the barrowdowns never happened, we didn't see gandalf vs the nazgul in weathertop, gandalf didnt help conjour the steeds in the water... if you're going to count RoP as a fanfiction you can't deny the heavy editing of the hobbit and lotr. Plus I think it's well known numenor and Aman have mithril too.. And I imagine as some of the numenorians left numenor to create gondor among other cities on Middle earth atleast some of the guard armour was of numenorian mithril

[@chrisschmalhofer4348]

My wife’s students really enjoyed your very first video explaining what happened “in the beginning”. She really enjoys your gift for storytelling, and making a subject as rich and complex as Tolkien’s legendarium accessible. Please keep up the excellent work!

[@jayt9608]

I had a few thoughts. 1) The battle between the Balrog and Gandalf could be said to have been the last battle of the War of Wrath. 2) I agree that Gandalf's magic and the Ring would have been enough to draw the attention of the Balrog, but I also believe that he was disinclined to stir beyond his stony kingdom. Gandalf does not reveal his power again until he is facing the unseen Balrog in a war of wills, and even then they do not know one another. Pippin's dropping the stone is what alerted all their enemies to their presence, and alerted the Balrog to the invasion of his kingdom. This being the third such incursion, he chooses to come personally and with overwhelming force. 3) The fight between the Balrog and Gandalf I believe is told in exacting detail. This is a foe that Gandalf, though weakened by choice in coming to Middle Earth, can release the full force of his might against. The War of Wrath destroyed a continent, and here we get a glimpse as to why. This fight was epic in scale, especially its conclusion where the reports of fire and lightening upon the mountain heights are reported far and wide, especially as it occurred in dramatic fashion. Further, in throwing down the Balrog, both the mountainside and the Endless stair are smashed to utter ruin. Such devastation would have required the work of a lifetime or more, but was accomplished in mere moments as the fight closed. 4) The Balrog seems to take an interest in possible threats to his realm. Dain Ironfoot actually seems him briefly upon killing Azog, and then councils against the resettlement of Moria as they can not combat the the Bane of Durin. 5) I think it likely that both Sauron and the Balrog knew of one another, and felt that the best policy was one of noninterference. This Balrog would have also been present to save Morgoth from Ungoilant. It seems likely therefore that these two servant of Morgoth decided not to pit themselves against one another. 6) Could it be that the destruction of this Balrog was in the plan of Illuvitar the entire time? The elves had killed two at great cost, and there were few left who would be able to replicate the feat. The Balrog could have in time grown bold enough to become a Dark Lord in his own right, but by destroying him before his potential powers were at their full, it circumvented the rise of a third Dark Lord, just as the destruction of Saruman ensured that he could not replace Sauron.

[@thebookworm123]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5-uhmSDeMSbi9k

[@forfun6273]

Glorfindel probably could have taken him.

[@fipse]

Add Smaug to the potential future Dark Lords. It really seems that Gandalf made sure that no supernatural being was able to replace Sauron.

[@jayt9608]

@@fipse Smaug was definitely a second possibility, and if one thinks about it, most of the Third Age already had been ruled by a third Dark Lord, namely the Witch-King of Angmar, who dominated Middle Earth during Sauron's millennia of recovery.

[@jayt9608]

@forfun6273 Glorfindel, Elrond, Celeborn, Galadriel, and Círdan the shipwright all might have had the power to do this, but the conditions would have to be correct, and they would die in the doing. The only beings in Middle Earth that might have defeated the Balrog without dying would be Sauron, a Ringwraith, and Shelob, but even then, one must question if the doing would be worth it.

[@chaiwarrior11]

I have not even watched yet, but love that you are creating again! Rest when you need to, we patiently wait.

[@dreadsocialistroberts]

Gandalf, plus the presence of The One Ring and Gandalf's Ring definitely attracted Durin's Bane. I think they are also what really caught the attention of the Watcher in the Water.

[@craig3111]

Yeah I remember the film appendices made a point about how the watcher grabs Frodo and the tentacles are searching him for the ring. Showing how all evil is drawn towards it

[@forfun6273]

Yeah idk if Gandalf couldn’t perceive that bilbo had the one ring then I don’t see how the balrog would have perceived it without even getting close.

[@Flaris]

@@forfun6273I think it's safe to say the Ring wasn't nearly as active for much of the time Bilbo had it. At least compared to the level it was at by the time Frodo was traveling anywhere near Durin's Bane. By that point in the adventure I'd say it's entirely possible the Ring drew the attention of the Balrog.

[@dynjarren5454]

The Balrog couldn't have decerned the ring or even what it was...much less cared. The Balrog had no alliance or allegiance with Sauron at any time. So it couldn't have known or been aware of the ring...but maybe only it's power

[@OhNoAlexxStreams]

@@craig3111it’s a tentacle mugging. He stole Frodo’s wallet too.

[@kristinestout1170]

Interesting how the Balrog fled to the caverns deep under the Misty Mountains, just like another evil character that we are more familiar with, Precious.

[@thebookworm123]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5-uhmSDeMSbi9k

[@thebookworm123]

@Nano T. kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5-uhmSDeMSbi9k

[@jack6565]

I feel like a stressed out PI with the pins on pictures connected by red yarn but so far it goes.. Balrog = Morgoth =>/< the nameless things. Seek depth after Morgoth fell? (Only say that becouse the nameless things must be born from morgoths discourse in the song of the world, who else would make them?). Ungoliant is a bit more tricky, again it could be a by-product of the discourse and seeking darkness after she craved the light of the trees and Silmarils is more poetic in a story telling sence. The dwarves where made by Aule, the same Valar that had the Maiar Sauran and Saurman under his service, although he is righteous and true to Eru, they share the traits of coveting more than they have. The dwarves always build, create and try to improve. The trait is not inherently bad, it's just how far you take it. I don't know if I just look too far into it but Sir Tolkien really does set the themes so very very well. If you read this, sorry for the word vomit, I welcome any criticism on my ideas 😊

[@hodgrix]

I also seem to remember Gandalf mentioning something about how the dark power in Moria was drawn to him and that he was destined to meet it after he blocks the door the first time.

[@alexp6712]

It may be interpreted that Pippin also in the book alerts the denizens of Moria that there are intruders. Right after the stone, they hear the sound of a hammer tapping in an uneven rhythm, which they speculate might be a signal. Gandalf says something like “it may have nothing to do with the hobbit’s stone, but my guess is that something has been disturbed that would have been best left in peace”.

[@oguzhanenescetin5702]

It seems they like to take a nap alot. Pretty sure when Ungoliant was about to snack Morgoth they were not happy their sleep being interrupted. It seems Sauron treated them with much love and great care in Angband Jokes aside, another great video from one of my favorite youtubers. I cannot describe how excited I am to see mighty Glaurungs story!💚

[@aizensama1801]

why i feel this joke is very much real 🤣

[@TheGreatPower365]

soft balrog warm balrog little ball of fire soft balrog warm balrog burn burn burn

[@CalliopeFive]

Yay, new Rainbow Dave vid! I like waiting for longer stuff from you, knowing you get rest is nicer than knowing you stressed to get something out quicker.

[@rebeccalyn9908]

This is like a dwarven week in lore land. I love it!!!

[@ryanmcwilliams8784]

It’s always dwarven week when you go swimming with hairy little women

[@rebeccalyn9908]

@@ryanmcwilliams8784 😂 I'm little, freakishly strong, but not as hairy. Seriously. I'm 5ft 1/4 inch. I'm stronger, though much less smaller, than my husband, distance hike, have a thing for rocks, can chug a mug like a champ... I've been referred to a dwarven/hobbit hybrid. Mash up of merry and pippin (logical, polite, pleasant, loyal, and absolutely naive to the seriousness of situations at times and have to be held back from touching the big red button everyone tells you not to touch). Just not the big feet, stoutness, or hairiness. Wanna go have a beer at The Prancing Pony sometime? 😂

[@haleyschreiter9746]

Excellent video, Rainbow Dave! The collective history of Moria can get rather murky, so this summary is definitely appreciated. And I very much agree with you that Sauron and the Balrog would view each other more as equals than anything else, so an alliance of any kind where one might take orders from the other is vastly unlikely.

[@thearmchairjournalist566]

True - both were Maiar and closely matched in power, so unlikely to appreciate being lorded over 😂

[@johndododoe1411]

​@@thearmchairjournalist566But still capable of cooperation like Melkor and Ungoliant.

[@nick1801]

@@johndododoe1411 Who ultimately turned on each other, as is always the case with evil beings (at least for Tolkien). Eventually Sauron probably planned on forcing the Balrog to submit after he had the ring. Until he was certain that he would come out on top there was no need to stir the hornets nest, and for his part the balrog showed very little inclination to venture beyond Moria.

[@johndododoe1411]

@@nick1801 Oh, like Putin and Progozin (Wagner) or Hitler and Röhm (SA Storm Troopers)?

[@paulemge9156]

Awesome video as always. My head canon is there were 3-7 Balrogs and many lesser fire spirits that served Melkor and where also mistaken for Balrogs

[@martystrasinger3801]

I think that works, and may be the best way of uniting Tolkien’s early thoughts on balrogs with his later ones.

[@thearmchairjournalist566]

There were less than 10 but most were killed before Melkor was thrown into the void. I think all bar one were gone by then. Durin’s bane was a Maiar and basically neutral - all were before Melkor corrupted them.

[@TheGamingplayer12]

So like 7 main balrogs and an army of powerful fire spirits mistaken as balrogs I like that too actually excellent head cannon

[@nikhtzatzi]

obviously when people of middle earth would write history not first hand, many demon looking things could be called a balrog. how even today we can say "devils" without it meanimg "the devil"

[@astridchladek1927]

Danke!

[@dustinfindsrocks]

I love your deep dives into Tolkien's world. Keep up the great work!

[@sebastos7693]

I agree with you that if Sauron knew what exactly Durins Bane was, he'd probably not bother trying to get it to serve him, because the nature of the Balrogs (and Shelob for that matter) didn't allow them to be reliable servants for his goal and trying to subjugate them would have been much more trouble than it was worth. Shelobs primary objective was to eat, and the Balrogs objective was to destroy/kill. Both didn't align with Sauron objective of dominion over other creatures and were better left alone, as long as they didn't bother him.

[@sebastos7693]

@@Nick-zp3ub Of course he would be, but what would keep the Balrog from turning on Sauron before that. What would prevent it from becoming a power for himself, like Saruman did and what if it actually got it's hands on the Ring?

[@mandalore5558]

I wonder if Durin's Bane killed Gandalf or if it was Gandalf's use of his full Maia power that simply overwhelmed his mortal body.

[@johnsykes9623]

Yes, very nice point. Would like to see this question taken further if possible

[@johnsykes9623]

Is this realy why Gandalf could be returned without breaking too many rules

[@kd6420]

Word, never thought of that!

[@Busrayne]

Interesting, but I don’t think so. Melian the Maia used her full powers in a mortal body with no trouble. Also, Gandalf and the other Istari were sent to Middle Earth with only a fraction of their power because their role was to advise and inspire - not be combatants. The other factor was the Balrog, being a spirit of fire, was at a considerable disadvantage against Gandalf without his fire and his flaming sword (shattered by Glamdring in their first pass) after having been quenched by water. Gandalf pursued him ever hewing him with Glamdring (a sword with an edge so keen it could cut goblin chains off dwarves with ease). So when they reached the top of the Endless Stair and the Balrog burst back into flame, he must have been wounded severely by the ordeal at this point, allowing Gandalf to finish him even in his low powered state.

[@chrisdaigle5410]

Gandalf the Grey did expire in defeating the Balrog. Their battle lasted ten days and he expired from exhaustion. But since his work wasn't finished, he was sent back as Gandalf the White. "Gandalf's body lay on the peak for nineteen days, until he was resurrected by Eru and sent back to Middle-earth alive to complete his task. For three days he lay in a trance, until he was found by the Windlord Gwaihir and carried to Caras Galadhon in Lothlórien, where he was healed and clothed in white, and thus became Gandalf the White, more powerful than ever before"

[@abigailg9188]

This was just the boost my morning needed! I’m happy you’re back with more mithril quality content. ❤

[@jima6545]

An excellent video sir. I've always been of the impression that Durin's Bane fled the fall of Utumno. And never returned to Morgoth's service. As to the number of Balrogs, I've always been under the impression there was a decent amount. They were often referred to as a company, and Gothmog was their Captain. Drawing the parallel fate of Gandalf and the balrog was very cool and makes sense. Thank you!

[@mariacvale]

As always, you rock Rainbow Dave! You're my favorite Tolkien channel. Thanks!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thank you very much! Greatly appreciated!

[@Spartan1312]

Everything was fine until the fire...I mean Balrog attacked

[@Special_Tactics_Force_Unit]

Mmmm stale memes

[@ryanmcwilliams8784]

This wasn’t funny but it did make me snort with a slight chuckle so I mean I guess it works

[@Spartan1312]

@@ryanmcwilliams8784 Sorry I know it was bad, it just came to mind after hearing his intro to Khazad-Dum

[@Aros-pr2xr]

Everything was fine until the fire… I mean Hasbro Nation attacked

[@joojoo4998]

A kinda fucking demon Giant* coverd* in 🔥

[@masstrapper7645]

This was amazing as always. I’m sure it’s been suggested and there’s probably legal reasons but if it were possible for you to do audiobooks of professor Tolkiens work I would definitely purchase it. You read the story better than any I’ve heard to date. Your skills of storytelling and inflection are fantastic. Thanks for all you do👍👍

[@beckyedgeworth9639]

What if we promise not to tell…🫢🤫

[@joeybox0rox649]

I think a collaboration between Dave, Robert from "In Deep Geek" & Matt from "Nerd of the Rings," & I too would purchase those audio books.👍👍

[@James-dn8dh]

​@joeybox0rox649 yes.

[@scotthudson8722]

@@joeybox0rox649 I can't do Nerd of the Rings videos anymore after he stood by while Amazom desecrated Tolkien (and I used to love his channel!)

[@stevenklimecky4918]

@@scotthudson8722 I agree!

[@joemck74]

I think Peter Jackson really missed a brilliant opportunity with the fight between the Fellowship and the Wargs before entering Moria. It would have been a great chance to show Gandalf reluctantly revealing some of his power in a very cinematic way, and also helped the audience appreciate why the Fellowship would enter a place as dangerous as Moria - because Gandalf had been forced to make a giant neon sign pointing at their small vulnerable group wandering in the wilderness under a treacherous sky.

[@TheEvertw]

Excellent idea. There could have been a tiny little scene zooming out of that fight and seeing some crows observe the fight and then take off.

[@timber72]

Peter Jackson missed MANY things in his "adaptation", which is why I tell anyone interested to ignore the films completely.

[@bvldr]

@@timber72 sounds like the most awful and ignorant “advice” lmao

[@johndododoe1411]

​@@timber72A bit exaggerated, as Jackson's LotR trilogy is the closest available cinematic adaptation despite their lost details, such as Gandalf making such a public display of power on Weathertop while the hobbits and Aragorn watch the flames from afar, not knowing who or what it was until they see the "Gandalf" signature on a stone during their own use of the old ruin.

[@timber72]

@@johndododoe1411 That is apologist nonsense. As I explained, in great and explicit detail, Jackson didn't merely make minor detail changes...he destroyed Tolkien's main theme entirely.

[@jamesw3413]

So close to 100k! You deserve it man I love your videos I like to imagine a Balrog fleeing to the South East (as Tolkein alluded to multiple escaping the war of wrath). It would be a nice setting for Blue Wizard vs balrog fanfiction or maybe even another minor dark lord. All non canon speculation of course

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks!

[@jameshitt3263]

I doubt the Balrog would accept being considered any kind of "pet" of Sauron's, and likewise I bet Sauron knew better anyway. The threat/rivalry potential seems most likely. I imagine the Balrogs are like Morgoth's Nazgul; his most loyal and trusty servants. They might have common purposed for a while, but I suspect their goals would eventually be in conflict. (I imagine the Balrog's chief motivation would be bringing Morgoth back from the Void.)

[@adamb8317]

While Balrogs are like Morgoth’s generals, Sauron is essentially his second in command. His most powerful servant. With the one ring he would be much more powerful even than Gothmog, the chief balrog, who is already long vanquished anyway. Remember, there are ancient warriors like Glorfindel who have killed Balrogs, but it takes two of the greatest warrior kings of all time (Elendil and Gil-Galad) to defeat Sauron in his strength, and they are slain in the process. This shows that though Sauron is incredibly strong, the strength and skill of these warriors is equivalent to that of a Balrog and possibly greater, despite the fact that they are immortal beings with seemingly great magical powers.

[@CyberUK]

@@adamb8317 Agreeing with & slightly expanding upon your point, but also correct you on one thing - Elendil and Gil-Galad both fought Sauron as you mentioned, but both died in the encounter without defeating him / doing him any real harm. Isildur was fortunate that Sauron wanted to destroy him with his hand alone, and subsequently; by extending his arm out, left himself open to the counter by Isildur, cleaving the finger and ring from Sauron's hand. That one small point aside, I completely agree with your comment.

[@adamb8317]

@@CyberUK that is only in the movies as far as I can tell. I don’t recall any part of the books saying that he reached for isildur and that’s when he cut the ring off.

[@DingoNovember]

To think about it, it took just one Balrog to cause a downfall of the mightiest Dwarven faction. But Glorfindel did defeat one. And Fingolfin even did wound Melkor. Those high elves were so OP. And also those Numenoreans who can scare Sauron by only mere presence, that was so crazy.

[@VidsnStuff]

Numenorians are soooo cool though, there's thousands of long lived, wise, super strong, super humans, who can coordinate plans with the help of the Palantiri and beat back the forces of Sauron's own army back to his own lawn. He had every right to fear and hate such a powerful people.

[@aexndr387]

Don't forget Finrod...

[@zippyparakeet1074]

​@@VidsnStuff orchestrating the downfall of Numenor is the cruelest thing Sauron did to Men imo.

[@kyletrout3828]

These videos are so awesome and necessary. It allows people passionate about the amazing world that Tolkien gave us to share it with the rest of us.

[@alandeletras]

One of the best channels about Tolkien's lore I have seen. I enjoy your narration and knowledge way too much. Kudos, man.

[@hfcriske]

As much as I can hardly wait for the continuation of the Silmarillion stories, I really liked this as well :)

[@matts3137]

Your channel has grown so much. Congrats on all your success! I absolutely love your brilliant essays on everything LOTR. Cheers!

[@rarr2218]

In his first incarnation Glorfindel killed a Balrog. He was sent back even stronger.

[@exidy-yt]

Excellent video, thank you for covering this! In my headcanon, the Balrog of Morgoth had either been exiled or fled deliberately to a sanctuary underneath the roots of the mountain to hibernate many thousands of years before the dwarves ever arrived and created Kazhad-Dum. His residual heat worked on the strange ores down near the molten mantle to create mithril, small veins branching up into the mountain from the huge deposits that formed around the inert Balrog. The dwarves discovering the properties of mithril and getting rich and powerful from making and selling creations of it of course kept seeking out the biggest veins of it eventually found a massive deposit way down deep, ignoring the huge hot black lump the mithril surrounded until one day someone went looking to see if there was more mithril beyond the blackness and poked the bear/balrog. And Durin's Doom came upon him and his people.

[@anonaki-mt6xb]

As Tolkien was a philologist, we can break Balrog down into Bal and Rog. Ba'al means 'Lord' or 'Master' (Sumerian, Phoenician, et al.), and Rog in Middle-English means 'to Rock'. The Lord Master of the Deep Rock.

[@mariacvale]

Oh Dave! No one tells the stories of Tolkien's world like you do. Thank you!

[@nathaniellong4281]

I wonder if Tolkien woke someone up one day and they got very angry with him, and that's where he got the idea of the Balrog getting very angry when it was woken up.

[@christianstibich7454]

Great video, Dave! Two weeks in a row! The world makes sense again.

[@Meggimagine]

The illustrations are as great as ever... Thanks for this, I was actually wondering how the Balrog could have hidden in Khazad Dûm without the dwarves noticing him entering, it does make a lot of sense!

[@PropellerhedzMedia]

Just blown away by the depth, detail and passion you dedicate to this channel and content. Thank you so very much for.sharing

[@shaunlan5193]

Finding a new video from you is always the highlight of my day! Thank you for all of your wonderful work

[@Numberoneplanker]

Really like that your previous videos only had one ad at the beginning of the video and no other ads throughout. I would watch your videos the first time and listen to them multiple times over again while falling asleep. Sad that theres 8-10 ad breaks per video now.

[@MellowMutts270]

Great video! I always found the Balrog to be fascinating. In my head canon there were thousands of them until The Battle of the Powers where most were wiped out. Also very happy to see that you have a sponsor this video, congratulations!

[@ryancox4498]

I like to think there was only ever a small number. I suspect that the Nazgul were somewhat inspired by King Arthur's Knights of the Round Table and the Twelve Peers of Charlemagne. They were Sauron's personal force of Anti-Paladins. From that perspective, I can imagine Tolkien at least toying with the idea of the Balrogs being a similar type of force for Morgoth. Maybe Sauron was even intentionally trying to emulate his old master when forming the Nine.

[@ieuancilgwri3230]

A good work and video, I love that your conclusions and speculation do not stray too far from the lore and therefore everything you say is feasible and traceable. Thank you, as a ‘purist’ I enjoyed this immensely.

[@jamespurcer3730]

Sauron was also one of the Maiar along with the Wizards of Middle Earth and the Balrogs. However, Gandalf actually had a healthy fear of the power of Sauron.

[@Ryan-pj5cx]

being of the Maiar does not make one the strongest of the Maiar.

[@osmanshah5046]

@@Ryan-pj5cxBut Sauron was among the most powerful of the maiar and was taught a lot about power by Melkor. And I’m pretty sure I remember the Silmarillion mentioned Gothmog and Sauron were near equals. The rest of the balrogs were lesser. Plus the istari combined were no match for Sauron head to head but Gandalf beat the balrog alone

[@b.a.4467]

Most excellent content on yt - I love the dwarf lore, thanx a lot!

[@LukeWengles]

Came up on my phone - I out loud- at work- went ‘Ooo! A new Rainbow Dave!’

[@TreborPaulson]

Such a good video! Answered all the questions I had and answered questions I had not questioned yet. My new go to channel for Middle Earth information

[@tomas6179]

When I’m reading the title of this video it makes me imagine that Balrog snoozed a couple of times before waking up 🤣🤣🤣

[@maryeckel9682]

Hit that button

[@carltuckerson7718]

What a wonderful surprise. Thanks Dave!

[@nevermoreraven3340]

I grew up with the Peter Jackson trilogy as well as the 1977 version of the hobbit. I just recently read the hobbit and I'm currently reading the lord of the rings trilogy. I've become obsessed with these type of lore videos I have them playing in the background while doing other things. I love the idea that the Balrog is Gandalf's equal and opposite!

[@erikrichtsteig1055]

Love this channel. Thanks, Dave!

[@dantheman9395]

Can see this story in my head as you are telling. It was great

[@lenin972]

Nice to see you got a sponsor. And about the desk, I helped my sister move last week and she has one and it looks really good, she definitely likes it :)

[@neilgoldsmith482]

Gandalf the gray was fearing what he’d find in the mines of Moria.

[@jamieolberding7731]

Tolkien Untangled 122K subscribers Saruman [to Gandalf by confirming his greatest fear on the terrifying existence of the infamous Balrog known as only "Durin's Bane" who dwells within Moria] "Moria.... You fear to go into those mines. The Dwarves delved too greedily and too deep. You know what they awoke in the darkness of Khazad-dum...... Shadow and Flame."

[@oguzhanenescetin5702]

Although I dont really think Sauron would fear Durins Bane in any scenario,( Gandalf the Gray defeated him and both Gandalf the White and Tolkien admitted even after his empowerement, Gandalf could never defeat Sauron by himself. ( somewhere Tolkien writes even without the ring, greatly diminished TA Sauron without his ring vs Gandalf the White “with the One Ring”would be a battle of equals)) I can see Durins Bane not “minding” Sauron. Balrogs are not very motivated and they are generally quite peacefull without a power leading them. Great thoughts as always.

[@rboss5919]

I was always under the impression that the Balrog was stronger than Gandalf and it was only through Gandalfs sheer will and determination that he was just barely able to defeat it. That said, Sauron by the time of Fellowship had definitely reclaimed enough power to best the Balrog but he may have opted out as a battle with such a powerful opponent might have left him weakened enough to set back plans for his return. Likewise, I don't think he had any intent to directly fight Gandalf or Saruman without his ring either.

[@oguzhanenescetin5702]

@@rboss5919 Gandalf, for most of the time, held the upper hand against Balrog in their fight. No this was a fight of equals that’s basically the whole reason Gandalf was able to slay it. After becoming the White, Gandalf was barely powerful enough to hold back Sauron through palantir and Tolkien in his letters noted that Sauron’s strength would be much greater in person. So Sauron was still more powerfull than the White by a good margin. Gandalf the White however is way more powerful than the Grey. To make a comparison Grey Gandalf needed his whole power to “hold back” only 6 of the Nazgûl whereas as White he defeated them with a single display of power when Ringwraiths were greater in power. Tolkien also noted in HoME that Sauron was a greater spirit compared to Balrogs. All an all Balrog wouldn’t have a chance. Would it cause trouble? Maybe

[@patte039]

Thanks!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks very much! Greatly appreciated.

[@mypeeps1965]

Your the best at what you do. A master story teller!

[@klientproby]

Absolutely wonderful and informative! Thank you! I always wondered when and how and why the Balrog was in Khazad-dum. Also, when Gimli tells the others about how glorious it would be once they reached there, only to discover it deserted with the skeletons of long-dead dwarves.

[@aaronrowell6943]

I think it's interesting that we know so little about these events because it leads to find speculation like this often times the stories are at their best when they are left ambiguous It's funny in the book version that they did not know about the balrogs existence are they weren't 100% sure what it was there was speculation but unlike the movie no one knew it was for sure a balrog. Both gandalf and Aragorn had both traveled through moria with no problems other than that it was not a fun adventure. It's probably good though that this had happened the way that it did because gandalf is probably the only person who could defeat the balrog at that point.

[@bendream544]

Galadriel and Elrond would have had good go. Glorfindel resurrected as well, though it would have been pretty difficult to convince him to go through it again 😂

[@Agreus93]

It was a very looong week for me, so happy to se you posted a video, just what I needed I grabbed a beer and enjoyed! Excellent video as always, thanks you!

[@timitnyre5831]

Had the Balrog defeated Gandalf and survived, I wonder what he would have done with Narya, the Ring of Fire. Would he be content to simply remain in Moria with one of the Elven Rings adding to his might?

[@skavihekkora5039]

The 3 rings were incorruptible afaik, so no use for him or Sauron.

[@timitnyre5831]

@@skavihekkora5039 No, they were certainly corruptible, but none of them had ever been touched by Sauron so none of them ever actually was corrupted. Had they fallen into Sauron or one of his minions or the Balrog or Saruman's hand, they certainly could and would have been used for evil. And like all the rings, they were also governed by the One and their users could be corrupted by Sauron if he had the One.

[@chuntoon1]

Always so glad to see another video pop up! I'll be watching this weekend!

[@patty4349]

Honestly, I have always thought that the idea that dwarves should have known better than to dig down too far or else wake up a Balrog to kind of be a bit unfair to the dwarves.

[@anonaki-mt6xb]

I wonder what you look like...short, stocky, long beard?

[@misskay308]

Jesus I can’t believe I just found this Chanel !!! Good job man these are so in depth and interesting!!

[@raimat66]

I’ve heard some interesting speculations about “the secret fire” and "wielder of the flame of Anor". It’s more likely that he refers to the holy and secret fire of Eru Ilúvatar. Early drafts of the script are supporting that speculation. And it becomes more likely that the battle of two mayar is a competition of the more “heavenly” light and dark fire than about the balrog against the elven ring. Gandalf is not wielding the elven ring in battle because it’s allegedly worthless as a weapon. It’s a ring of inspiring and creation.

[@brucwayn6403]

Amazing video great fun and as always excellently narrated

[@richardmather1906]

I disagree that Gandalf was mistaken. What he said is what Tolkien published. And what Tolkien published is, presumably, his more decided views on the subject. It is tempting, and entertaining, to read the unpublished work (which includes, IMO, the Silmarillion for additional info. But, IMO, you have to treat the published work as more authoritative.

[@nofrillsatall3904]

Great video as always! Also, I am sure that this has already been said, but.. Rainbow Dave has improved his rolling of the Rs impressively from his first videos until now! Great work Dave!

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks very much!

[@johnmilano8113]

@@tolkienuntangled That’s it! For those of us who have to rely on close captioning, I thought I was reading the wrong JRR Tolkien book. What the heck is a Mororador (the place where Sauron lives I think- I forget how his name read). You’re either mispronouncing or over pronouncing your words. Well that stops now. You all will pronounce everything like me- I’m from New Yawk (york). After me, wata, quata, flaw (you know, the thing you walk on in your house). And if I ever figure out what an o win and glow in are I might really be upset. Love always…

[@LaViejaConsolada]

from my perspective: It is impossible for the balrog or for Sauron to not known the existence, nature and location of each other after the dark lord sent his orcs down Moria's halls. Orcs were not stupid, they had languages and fuctional societies, and they were absolutely loyal to Sauron: they would have informed him of every single detail of Moria's state of things. Likewise, I don't believe that a balrog is ignorant in the arts of torture to obtain all revelant information about those new neigboors. My conclusion is this: Sauron was too weak after losing fair form and his ring to confront a Maiar, specially one unbounded like the balrog. He would not invite it into his ranks, only to be surely overthroned. It would be a matter of time! In the other hand, a balrog that went into hiding for thousands of years had absolutely nothing to gain from an ill alligeance. Sauron had nothing to offer, and the affairs of the 3rd age were kids games compared to the ravages of war that it experienced during the first age. It was hiding to survive, hiding from the Valars and from the sure direct intervention of Eru would it manifested in the world without restrains.

[@sacjones7341]

Thanks for the upload 🙌🏾

[@mattwilson8298]

It kinda makes sense to me that Sauron wouldn't be eager to work with a Balrog. Sauron's whole deal was order and control, but the Balrogs were primeval spirits of destruction and chaos. That's not really Sauron's bag. If anything Sauron would have viewed a Balrog as a real threat so long as he lacked the One Ring. And perhaps even if he didn't lack the One.

[@jonasfavela6909]

Your work is absolutely top notch!!! Love it

[@thrivingdevelopment2317]

I have this theory that dwarfs cannot have nice things and nothing lasts for them BECAUSE there is no place for them in the world. They were not a part of the original design of the universe and how Eru Iluvatar envisioned Arda. They were created later and Eru relented and let them live, but the fact that they were not a part of the original plan translates into a string of tragedies and dramatic events for the dwarfs. And my argument is how Eru dealt with Morgoth when he began to corrupt the music of the Einur. Eru didn't stop Morgoth and his corrupted cohorts, instead he led the music in such a way that ensured there would be a constant battle between good and evil, but in the end, good will always prevail. So the music of the Einur is some sort of destiny, and the dwarfs were never a part of it.

[@jayt9608]

However, Eru also says that nothing can be done that will not work to his will and will not find its ultimate source in him, thus while neither the dwarves or the Ents appear to be "in the plan", they still seem to appear in the plan by the infathomable will and knowledge of Eru.

[@michaelsmyth3935]

Talk about missing the point. Eru KNEW that the Dwarves were going to be created, before they actually were. Remember?

[@michaelsmyth3935]

​@@jayt9608 exactly. Well said.

[@thrivingdevelopment2317]

@@michaelsmyth3935 talk about being confused. Eru kee they were created before they awoke. But never knew they were going to be created. What were his options? Destroy them? He let them live

[@danielled8665]

Honestly the same is true of the ents, and their works also seem doomed, even to their women.

[@FullMetalXV]

Most underrated channel on KZbin you deserve 10 times as many subs thanks for your hard work on these

[@tolkienuntangled]

I appreciate that!

[@andywatson29]

With the balrogs acting as morgoths generals with Gothmog being his chief lieutenant, Durins bane likely believed himself to be above the necromancer in statue and Sauron likely knew he couldn’t hold dominion over him. I always believed that Glorfindel was sent back to ME in case the threat of the remaining balrogs emerged, as we know most of them were slain but some escaped into hiding somewhere in ME. So more than just durins bane lived on after the war or wrath.

[@ZombieGrandpa]

I appreciate your encapsulations friend. Though I have read Tolkien, his mind was so rich and his reach so vast, that it all mixes together in a confusing ball. It is a place where the perspective of time is lost and you brought back that perspective. Thank you.

[@ashalley]

11:09 His part in the creation song after he fell was most likely profane rap and dark drill lol

[@dreamcream3738]

Nah, dubstep.

[@captainkal2582]

Always a pleasure to get lost in one of your videos. Your enthusiasm is palpable and shared, mellon. Content like yours is what makes the Tolkien community wonderful ✌🏻❤️

[@daytripper5441]

Would Durin's Bane and Gandalf have met as Maiar before the corruption of Melkor? And when they met in Khazad Dum, would each have remembered that meeting in the recesses of their memories?

[@michellebrown4903]

Yes , l believe they would have known ,or been aware of one another. And recognised each other ....not best mates perhaps ... how many Mair were there ? ....l used to sing in a choir .... l knew all of them....some of those Altos were proper jerks.

[@joshyB1992]

I swear the way you pronounce words is just amazing. Such a cool vid.

[@jcook693]

I like the idea that Tom Bombadil and the nameless things are two sides of the same coin, relics of the Music of the Ainur, formed at the earliest moments of creation, literal physical manifestations of the good and the evil working within the Music.

[@AdrianCruz_]

It’s really snowy and grey today, which is fine I love snow, but now I have this almost 40 min video to watch before bed later which will make it even better. Hope yall have a great day

[@tolkienuntangled]

Enjoy!

[@TheMarcHicks]

Whilst I am glad that Tolkien reduced the numbers of Balrogs from hundreds to a mere handful, I often feel like 7 is too few a number. Gothmog is called The Lord of Balrogs...but if there were only 6 others, then that title feels rather empty. I also don't feel like 7 Balrogs could have beaten Ungoliant at her full strength. My head canon is that there was between 12-20 Balrogs.

[@Syntheconductor]

Amazing as always! When I see a video from you, I know my day just got all the better! Thank you sir!

[@rjb10101]

Rainbow Dave on a Snowy day in Middle England....

[@GreatAwakeningE]

Fabulous informative story telling putting all the various pieces of Tolkien’s opera together. Thankyou

[@cyberpunkdarren]

Interestingly, the balrog was a maia on same level as sauron. So they would be near equals actually. Shelobs rank vs sauron is interesting debate.

[@Lord_Malkior]

I did not expect to watch the entirety of this video, but I did. Well done and thank you for clearly putting so much effort into it.

[@AnotherZenThought]

Do you think that it would have been hard to figure out who was going to be victorious between durin's band and Sauron? That's a silly notion. Durin's bane was killed by Gandalf when he was in his lowly form of "the Gray". Sauron is repeatedly stated to be many times as powerful as Gandalf the white. We can know who would win between them, and it isn't the unnamed Maiar.

[@chaoticgood3935]

Your 100K video 🤘🏻Congratulations! Well deserved 🍺

[@tolkienuntangled]

Thanks! 😃

[@SonOfTheWild]

2:43 overlay map is terrible - way below lore quality of this channel:/

[@kurtlichtenstein2325]

Great stuff! I would have liked a mention of his brief appearance after the Battle of Azanulbizar. But a great analysis.

[@themis828]

Really enjoyed the explanation, your efforts in doing the research to understand why the Balrog was there in the first place and even your theories. Thank you for this video and the choice of such wonderful artwork.

[@SirGEEZUS]

thank you for this content❤

[@chucknora4194]

You have a great voice for doing this! Thanks!

[@fofoleveon]

This channel deserves more subcribers!