Learning To Drive A Rifle; 257 Roberts XTR Featherweight

[@rogernichols9987]

Tom you just answered more of my questions in 3 minutes than I have gotten answered in a 20 year span of trying to make improvements on my bench work thank you for your detailed advice it is always appreciated.

[@jamesmooney5348]

One of Nathan Foster's books, on Long Range shooting, goes over this.

[@christopheransell2179]

It's great to hear that the .257 Roberts is still a relevant round to some people! Although my mother's Remington 700 Classic .257R hasn't been shot in many years, back in the '90s with 117 grain Hornady BTSP's I could hit every groundhog in the earhole at 80+ yards, it was also a potent deer stopper with the same round...

[@johnandrosemarywyatt977]

Some thoughts: Twist rate for heavier (longer) bullets. My .243 was inconsistent with 100gr bullets - flat base and boat tail - with a 1:10 twist rate. I switched to 1:8 the gun now "drives" well. Getting squared up behind the rifle. Avoid standing sideways like the army taught. Gun must fit. There is a relationship between lop and cheek height. The higher your cheek goes, the less lop you need for proper eye relief. To get that locked in feeling, you shouldn't have to fight the scope to get a good picture. Women tend to have longer necks and might benefit from higher rings. I really like your approach to just about everything and try not to miss a single show. Thank you.

[@nerradnosnhoj5122]

Thank you for the videos Happy New Year Best wishes for 2023

[@edwardabrams4972]

Managing recoil, trigger control and proper shoulder and cheek weld takes lots of practice and lots of dry firing! All the great marksman do a lot of dry firing and learn to hold their rifle properly!

[@todsimpkins8908]

You are a gold mine of information. Your videos have helped me a lot. Here is wishing a happy and healthy 2023 to you and your family.

[@charleshuyck6641]

Long range scope matters too I had Nikon build em for me BCD range compensation to 600 yards and adjustable turrets will get you to 1100 yds. Scope and trigger pull matters. I use a lot of FN control feed actions, Browning A-bolt for hunting and for hunting and target now vintage synthetic, worked Savage model 10s with heavy barrels the 11 pound ones in 308 with aluminum bedded stocks and Accutriggers. Savage has a perfect head space, chamber and hand straightened, button rifled barrels and my Accutriggers are safely set to one pound. With the weight, trigger and a perfect action and barrel it melts to the perfect union with body.

[@zayacz123]

It absolutely makes sense regarding both sports. I used to hunt pheasant and geese, but never big game. I’ve played golf (or something resembling it) for years.

[@warrenminer877]

Hi Tom, my most favorite gun is my Winchester super grade featherweight in 257Roberts it will shoot 1/4 moa no matter what grain bullet I use with H4350 and Nosler partitions. My gun will not shoot Sierra boat tail bullets at all, they spray all over just like yours. I really don't think your technique is all of your problem as you shoot other guns well, I think we can all learn some things from others but also don't always believe in reinventing the wheel. I really enjoy all your videos and look forward to this series, hope you can figure some things out to get your gun to shoot like it should, I would not sell or trade my 257. for any gun or money in the world. It shoots that good.

[@jstrunck]

Thank you for the tip on the “winning in the wind” channel!

[@bobbygreen2291]

Tom I am a fifty year reloader,,one trait I’ve noticed in a lot of calibers and different rifles is that to get great groups with a heavier bullet sometimes I have to sacrifice from my targeted velocity to one that is slower than I wanted ,,I have learned to live with this when sometimes I don’t want to.

[@308guy8]

I'm gonna video myself and see what I do. I never really thought about that, thanks, Mr Tom

[@kewanna70]

Found your channel when searching for articles on the 257 Roberts and have really enjoyed your work. Happy New Year to you from Indiana.

[@charleshuyck6641]

When you are one with your rifle you can predict where it hits and you send the bullet, I like 150 grain high velocity and BC plastic tip boat tails. I like em at 3000 fps from a 308. It's like sending a breath to the target a part of you is launched.

[@jamesmooney5348]

I know a while ago, Nathan would zoom call with you over your shooting technique. You just need to cowboy up. Get to doing some push-ups and sit -ups. You know, "push-ups, sit-ups n nose in the ring- Hard work " Nathan says to be sore the next day, because core, shoulders, chest and entire body were stiff just shy of shaking. Again, we have to cowboy up!

[@denniswiemer72]

Tom, started to respond yesterday when I first saw this video, but my iPad swallowed it😂. Went back and checked with Gunblue and confirmed how we are both similar shooters. When shooting off hand, entire upper torso and rifle are one. Recoil is taken up in your hips, supported by good position of legs, feet. On larger caliber rifles (I mostly shoot 300WM), I give a slight lean into the rifle.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Dennis, that is exactly what I'm trying to achieve with my shooting.

[@martinfitzpatrick6632]

Happy New Year 🇨🇦!! Great advice as always.

[@usafret4709]

Tom, looking very forward to this series. I have a Remington 700 Lightweight Mountain Rifle in 270. When I shoot it, it just about jumps out of the rest every time. I load test as well, and it is hard to group test when you are not "driving the rifle" correctly.

[@bowentian2485]

This should be at least a 500k sub channel… I subscribed to winning the wind channel too recently and amazing stuff there too! With social media blooming people nowadays only chase the trend and don’t appreciate real quality content anymore. I subscribed to this channel a few years back and I recently asked my girlfriend to subscribe too though she’s not really a gun person. Very interesting and educational and inspirational and fun-to-watch video as always. I hope more people see this channel!

[@repairfreak]

Happy New Year Tom, Family & Viewers! Keep the cool videos coming Mr. River. 😎🎉

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks Mike, and happy New Year to you and yours!

[@LuisRodriguez-sc1oq]

🇺🇸🇵🇷🇵🇪😎 Happy New Year !!🌞 Love the channel.

[@michaelwilson9986]

IMR 4831 42 to 45 grs lights out of 3 257 2 70s Xtr n Ruger 115 to 120 Noslers.. Recently 6. 5 Staball showed promise.

[@beestoe993]

I have a couple lbs of staball that I may give a try. Being the miniature 06 that it is, anything in the 4350 range should do well with the heavier bullets.

[@robertdinicola9225]

Thats the same problem i have always had with the heavier loads. My 35 rem gets sprayed all over, even the 7mm-08. Gotta give this a try!

[@jonfranklin4583]

Thanks for this Tom, makes so much sense! If your upper body is locked together every time your results should be consistent versus pivoting at your spine, shoulder goes back, right arm goes back, left arm and head stationary so the shot can get thrown off. Great video and advice, look forward to your range time with this!

[@leeadams5941]

Well let me say, I hope you figure it out, we used to call it "Shooting through" You shoot the rifle till the bullet impacts.. There is a guy you might have heard of, Bob Hoover, he passed recently, but Ill never forget what he said about a crash, you fly the aircraft through the crash..and really its the same thing as shooting through, and it works..Good video and God bless

[@Rico11b]

Very good point. Mr. Hoover was a hellava pilot.

[@BigT27295]

Happy New Year Tom, and family. Thanks for your content. God bless you all...

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Right back at you BigT!

[@johnl5974]

There is only so much you can learn about form from other shooters. We all have unique muscle and skeletal builds which determine how we'll move during recoil. It's that first 1/8" or so of rifle movement when the crosshairs have to remain on the poa.

[@clasvirhodes4969]

Tom, if interested, I have some unopened boxes of 25 cal bullets and 257 Rob brass (nosler) to trade for 7mm-08 brass and bullets.

[@easttexan2933]

Tom, good shooting practices must include not closing your eyes in anticipation of the shot. Not saying you do that but in the video you showed, you definitely closed your eyes. Be mindful of that at the range. Personally I don't care for the set up where the left hand is under the buttstock by the rear bag. I prefer my left hand being used as another steadying device in front of the front bag, just lightly holding the forearm. Takes all the upward movement out of the shot and causes the rifle as a whole to slide rearward. Not pulling down on the stock mind you, just squeezing to steady the rifle, with a slight rearward force. Been watching GunBlue for years. He has quite the credentials for what he is talking about. Highly recommend your subscribers if they aren't familiar with his channel.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

East Texan, I watched the original video of me shooting frame by frame and I did close my eyes but it was after the shot. With that said, the one time I shot that Featherweight correctly and watched impact I never closed my eyes. With the rifle coming back like it does with my left shoulder moving back but my head staying still I don't know if can not close my eyes? I think it's just a reflex and it will be fun to see if that changes when i get to the range. And I have recommended GunBlue in the past. He really knows his stuff.

[@easttexan2933]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving yes sir, he sure does. Haven't gotten to the range yet with the JC Higgins Model 51 with the new timney trigger. Hopefully later this week.

[@quincygoodson3531]

Tom can you do a video over Thompson center percussion rifles .50 caliber shooting distance 100 yards open sight

[@teestampers8948]

Tom, great video as usual. I wanted your thoughts on purchasing a new Ruger M77 257. I had a M70 Featherweight 257 Bob previously that would not group - best was about 3 MOA. I love caliber but never owned a Ruger M77 and not sure I want a “project” rifle. I would love to hear you thoughts. thanks in advance.

[@brianlee6849]

Interesting 🤔 I wanted to see an example of this from someone I know to be a great shooter gunblue490. He has a video him shooting his 257 featherweight. You are right he stays connected and everything moves together. I want to see how I do. Thank you 👍

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Brian, if you really want to see it watch Gunblue490 shoot his M1A from the standing position. There's more movement because he's standing but everything still stays together.

[@brianlee6849]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Yes I have watched it. He is a great shooter and very informative I'm a subscriber of both channels. Thank you 👍 BTW beautiful model 70 257 Roberts

[@aaronwilcox6417]

I'd rather have that old Ruger 308win you were recently shooting. Ammo and components for 308win are easier to source and it really can do similar work with lighter bullets and then get it on with 165gr and 180gr.

[@johnnorman7708]

A featherweight m70 in . 257 Robt. sounds very slick.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

John, I love everything about the rifle. I just have to learn how to shoot it! LOL

[@charleshuyck6641]

Everything stated is true. Ultimately you can use techniques like Systematic Desensitization and relaxation techniques to slow heart rate breathing and flinch. Your soul, body and rifle become one. You can cross your arms, load the sling and hold cross armed standing and your buddy can do pull ups on the barrel. You and he rifle become one unit. Shoot shoot shoot until you can mark the center at 1000 yds with a 7.62 x 51. Celebrate this great nation and the bloodlines ahead of us.

[@BuckIt00]

Happy new year. Get some snap caps. Have someone load it for you at the range some caps some live . Chamber it with out looking. Noticed in the slow mo you do same as me some times. Slight flinch and close your eye. Im working on it. This may help you.

[@joeparker7508]

Can you put a links to other good shooting channels you like

[@kevinstokes5214]

Great video !!

[@cervus-venator]

Happy New Year!!! Thanks for the video as always!!

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Same to you!

[@cervus-venator]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Thanks!!

[@michaelwilson9986]

Happy New Year Sir God Bless You n Yours... Excellent video. 2 things. 1 Seats at benches are often ( but not always ) adjustable. Check em n get comfortable will shoot better . Actually reduce felt recoil. 2.. Flexible. One need to have grip on firearm but at same time be flexible ..or Roll with it I find if am tense have a death grip on rifle or handgun n rigid groups are terrible but if relax grip n hd firmly n roll with it I shoot alot better.. I to dry fire as have a case of the flinching disease.. dry firing aids in that n the 2 above. Carry on Sir.

[@beestoe993]

Hi Tom. Did you get the skeewompus rifling in the lands issue sorted out? One thing you might try to improve your technique is to use a bipod instead of the rest and practice "loading" the bipod. Just for the sake of developing the habit. I think one of the most important parts of driving a rifle is a feeling of leaning into the shot. Just a thought. I love that rifle by the way. Always been a fan of that particular style of the model 70. I would like to have one in a 7-08.

[@cornbreadburgess1950]

Thanks for the video Enjoyed it Tom

[@jonathandavis7810]

What's a modern common cartridge that's similar to the 257?

[@donaldanderson3249]

Ive seen some really good shooters rest they're hand on top of the scope when they shoot from a bench to take out some of the rifle jump . Ive tried it and it does help some , maybe try it out next time just to see if it helps 🤔

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Donald, they mentioned that in the American rifleman article I mentioned in the video. I guess I'm just too stubborn to do that especially since I know the rifle can stay on target without doing that. But the question is will I figure out how to do it again?

[@roddawe2505]

That's the technique Randy Selby (The real gunsmith) says is the proper way to shoot a hunting rifle off the bench when practicing or sighing in your rifle. I've tried both ways, and I've recently switched from a rifle stand (like you see in the video) to a heavy support bag filled with rice with great results. I like the bag system a lot better than the support stand, and I shoot more accurately with the bag.

[@tbjtbj4786]

Do you know the difference between the lightweight winchester m70 Vs the ruger 77 lightweight? I have a line on a 77 lightweight in 257 r. Watching your videos have me a bit interested in the 257r. I all ready have a liking for its offspring so to speak the 6mm remington.

[@gizmocarr3093]

I agree you have found a common flaw in shooters that cause poor accuracy. There numerous ways to shoot precisely, however, it will be be different for each shooter. The effects of recoil do make it more difficult as it increases. Lightweight rifles shooting light recoiling cartridges recoil more than heavier ones do. New shooters will shoot heavier rifles better than featherweight rifles. If I see any shooter blink or close their shooting eye at the shot, I know that is a follow thru problem. It is easier to improve your shooting using an accurate rimfire rifle. Practice using one simply enables you to improve using larger cartridges. In addition to, saving and wasting costly centerfire ammunition and blaming the rifle for your lack of technique. You can test your technique by using a 10-power scope or higher power one shooting a rimfire at 200-yards. You will see the bullet path appear at the bottom of the recital pass thru to the top and back down striking the target or showing the spot of impact. When testing hand loads or factory loads using an accurate rimfire rifle first tells you if you are shooing well or poorly. Using one first is a money saver and shows your level of shooting skills and you have a solid shooting rest set up. The same hold used to shoot heavy recoiling cartridges is the same one to use shooting a rimfire rifle and no different. 🤔

[@TMO-p7d]

Thanks I needed this

[@juliogonzales9217]

Square the shoulders, uper body with the target. Don't drop the shoulder back from Square. The couture in the shooting bench aids in this. Off hand needs to support the rifle and not hold the rear bag. Some rest off hand on top of scope. Things I've learned for shooting light rifles from the bench or prone off hunting pack. Light rifle are harder to shoot.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Julio, they certainly are harder to shoot. And I think that's one of the things I love about this rifle? I know it's a challenge and it's going to force me to become a better marksman. Do a search for that article I mentioned, American Rifleman - How To Shot Light Rifles. I think you'll enjoy it?

[@joeparker7508]

Happy New Year

[@saskdad115]

Question for you Tom: I just bought a Tikka t3x in .308 for hunting ranges to 400 yards. Would you suggest jumping into upgrading components on the rifle immediately or shoot and see? I mounted a bushnell 3-9x40 I had sitting around until I really nail down this guns purpose and function. Any thoughts?

[@endutubecensorship]

I understand you're asking Tom, but respectfully, it could be an absolute tack driver out of the box and I'd say give it that chance

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Mike, I have to agree with the previous comment. Tikka's have a great reputation for accuracy so try it first. It might be under 1/2 MOA out of the box? And while trying it you might notice something else on the rifle that you want to tweak so just give it a try and then go from there. And the video I mentioned in this video by GunBlue490 shooting a 222, it's a Tikka and it sure looked accurate!

[@WayStedYou]

As far as I know, the first thing that should be replaced is the recoil pad on the t3x's

[@saskdad115]

@@WayStedYou Sounds good. Ill add a limbsaver cushion. Ive done this to my recoiling boom sticks so far. Makes sense. Thanks

[@aldocella4947]

Mike, I've got a T3X Lite in .308 and the factory plastic stock gave quite a kick for a .308. I think the stock geometry also had something to do with it since I found myself craning my neck to see thru the scope, thus ruining the cheek weld. Tikka's are fine rifles considering their modest price point, and the cheesy plastic stock helps hold the price down. Long story short, I wound up replacing the stock with a laminated aftermarket model from a well known South Dakota stock maker, and its like a whole new rifle, way sweeter shooting than before.

[@zayacz123]

I was wondering if you felt more comfortable shooting while hunting than when at the bench? I’m not a hunter, but I find bench shooting tiring.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Ed Z, that was a really interesting question that I hadn't thought about before but there is a huge difference between shooting while hunting vs the bench. Hunting is tiring from the monotony of just sitting there. Your butt gets tired plus you're often cold or hot or whatever. And you might go however many trips and never see a thing or fire a shot. But when a deer walks out it's all adrenaline at that point and so often you don't even feel the shot or any other discomfort you might have been experiencing. You're totally fixated on making the shot. I remember shooting a doe when I was young and I dropped her in her tracks but then another one stepped out and just stood there as I fired 4 or 5 shots at the 2nd one and missed with every one of them because of the adrenaline rush from the first one. I was shaking to bad but I didn't even realize it. I would have sworn every shot was dead on the money just like the perfectly placed 1st shot on the first doe. As for the range, well you know all about that. I don't know if you have ever played golf but hunting and range time are very similar to playing golf vs driving range time. You work on your technique and form and all of that at the range but then you have to put it to use hunting and there are no do overs if you mess up. I hope that made sense.

[@keithjarrell3616]

Can you do a video on your favorite shotgun 5:22pm

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Keith, I've been planning on doing a video on shotguns but honestly I know very little about them from a technical standpoint. I've hunted a lot with shotguns over the years but mainly when I was young and I just used whatever I had. But this year I'm planning on building a dove field for September and I do want a nice automatic for that. So yes, I do hope to be talking about shotguns in the future. And quick version, my favorite is the Remington 1100. I know shotguns have come a long way since then but I haven't figured out yet if they're actually any better? The 1100 was simple, had a steel receiver, and lasted forever if properly maintained.

[@charleshuyck6641]

Driving a rifle is a combo of things. GOOD VIDEO! You should experience your rifle never shoot it.

[@tomprince5192]

Gotta get behind the rifle and not bladed or too closed...ie prone with Garand or M14. Some benches won't allow this

[@charleshuyck6641]

Also practice things such as Systematic Desensitization Relaxation to slow breathing, heart rate and flinch. Shoot standing arms crossed and sling loaded until your buddy can do pull ups on the barrel. become one with the rifle. Celebrate this great nation and the Blood Stripes before you.

[@jamesmooney5348]

It's called battery. Controlled recoil is battery. A cycle of battery.

[@barneywaggles]

Tom...your "Driving the rifle" is well taken...I think? Not so sure? My training from my dad was...ON THE BENCH or a STANDING shot pulling the trigger in a STEADY pull while BREATHING OUT! With that said...If you cannot shoot any 257 with ANY load tells me the rifle is screwed up or you have a flinching problem. Here is a quick cure idea: Get ahold of a 338...fire three rounds...see how you do...then go back to your 257 with 120's...I will bet you shoot THREE in that sweet babe in ONE HOLE!!!

[@jamesmooney5348]

No, their is a great great value to dry firing. If you don't dry fire, your training is coming up short.

[@mrhamburger6936]

Any type of firearm you should learn how to drive it to put it simple I agree on which telling us it's like the guy that has 20 or 50 Firearms I can't see how he could get good with any one of them

[@mattyallen3396]

Get a suppressor

[@rogerray2545]

It is always puzzled me why everybody wants to go by their kid a lightweight rifle youth model and kicks her teeth out heavier is definitely better for recall

[@tbjtbj4786]

It depends on the cartridge that 257 r not really going to kick from what I remember there less pressure than a 243 or 6mm remington so there going to be soft shooting. A ultralight in 35 w not so much. Like my nephew we have the lightest 350L that we could find to put together for him. The 350l in that simauto doesn't kick. But the light weight of the rifle lets him use and handle the rifle in a safe effective manner. Basically its a over all package a lightweight rifle is fine in a light recording rifle cartridge.

[@keithbelz2952]

Depends on the caliber and a hand loader can make a reduced load with plenty of kill power and not much recoil

[@beestoe993]

Give them kids a single shot for their first rifle. It naturally teaches them the first lesson really well, make it count!

[@endutubecensorship]

If a platform fits someone's size better they will have better control and they're going to be able to carry it all day. It's the cartridge choice that can lead to difficulties like you said.

[@WayStedYou]

@tbjtbj4786 how can it be less than a .243, it's a heavier bullet at the same speed

[@terrycalvert7812]

This is the most rediculous thing iv ever herd!! It dosent matter it that barrel jumps 8 feet into the air after each shot as long as it jumps 8 feet every time!! There is no way in hell that you can shoot bug holes with 100 grain bullets and then shoot several inch groups with a 117 or 120 there is not that much recoil difference in 17 to 20 grains heavier bullet that your technique will work with one and not the other! This boils down to twist rate I have a 25-06 shoots just about any bullet I run through it into zeros and low ones untill I get up around that 115 grain class of bullets!! Standard twist is 10-1 and is barely enough for anything about 115 grain some guns will shoot them some won’t and the shorter barrel on a feather weight over a standard sporter just makes this problem worse!! We’re not talking about a 300 win mag here where we can load 150 grain bullets with low recoil or a 230 grain bullet with a hell of a lot more recoil that I could see but as long as you do the same thing every time even if it’s wrong it will shoot the same every time IF and I says again IF the gun will spin the bullets fast enough. And I don’t think learning to drive a rifle means changing your technique all together to me it means just to tweak your technique a slight bit here or there to improve your consultancy. You go trying to learn a whole new way to shoot a rifle after doing it one way for years and years your just making the problem worse!! And explain how you can shoot a 270 accurately with much much more recoil that a 257 but can shoot a 257 with way less recoil. That just shows your technique is fine if recoils was the issues as the guns got bigger so would your groups and this isn’t the case so what’s the problem technique or twist rate!! That’s right it’s the twist rate! Or the gun just plain don’t like the longer bullets!!!

[@trentsnaza3372]

Yes!! Keith Glasscock. Good info! Watched a couple of his videos. Clearly he has no wife or kids!! Too much money and allot of time on his hands. 🤷 money and time!! That's what's makes champions right????

[@NCWoodlandRoamer]

Hold the forearm with your support hand and not the rear bag! Look at your own footage and the rifle is jumping all over the place because you’re not holding it. Geez