257 Roberts Featherweight Project: 1st Range Trip!

[@keithfisher9047]

Tom, love this latest video and glad you are making progress with your .257. I was the one with the "doctored" .257 Roberts when we met at the range and had such an interesting discussion. It's always a pleasure getting insight from others on the subject of ballistics and shooting. Keep the videos coming and hope to see you at the range!

[@jdboutdoors4709]

Look forward to seeing you at the range again soon.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks Keith and I thoroughly enjoyed that discussion myself!

[@stephenhair5501]

Keith, what barrel did you end up putting on your rifle?

[@earltaylor3971]

I have had really good luck with my Remington 700 classic .257 Roberts shooting a 100 grain spire point with 4350 powder. Very accurate, and every mule deer I have a shot with it has dropped dead in its tracks.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Earl, in my opinion you have the best .257 Roberts Remington ever produced. Almost all of the Remingtons in 257 were short actions even the CDL commerative they made about 10 years or so back. But the classic and the mountain rifle they made in 257 Roberts around the same time were both long actions. I had been keeping an eye out for either a classic like yours or this particular model 70 for awhile and I decided to get whichever one I found first at a decent price for a rifle in good shape. I just happened to find this one first otherwise I would have gotten one like yours. And I still might get one eventually! I think those were the prettiest model 700s ever produced. And good to know you're getting great accuracy with 4350. Thanks for sharing.

[@stephenhair5501]

Tom, I also have a .257 Roberts in a Browning A Bolt and it also has a 1 in 10 twist rate barrel. It does not like to shoot any bullet over 100 grains. I've tried factory loads and I've reloaded many different makes and weights of bullets. And I'll tell you the one that it really likes to shoot and groups well is an 85 grain Ballistic Tip. Now, that might seem light to some but I have taken 3 mature Whitetail Bucks and many Does with that bullet and it performed very well. I really developed this load for my youngest Son so he could take his first Deer with this rifle at the age of 9. He was very comfortable with this loading and took a nice Doe which took 2 leaps and fell over. The rifle will also shoot well with 90 grain and up to a 100 grain and still give decent groups, but anything heavier will get 2 to 3 inch groups at 100 yards. I hope your project goes well and I'm looking forward to more of your informative videos. Thank you, Happy New Year and God Bless.

[@peterconnan5631]

Tail end Charlie again. Really wish I had found your channel a few years earlier. Some thoughts: On the XTR, you mentioned that it shot well with the lighter bullets. Now I don't think that there's enough difference in recoil between a 100gr load and a 120gr load to cause such a big difference in group sizes. That and faffing around with a stability calculator for two minutes makes me think the twist rate is the real problem. That brings up a new discussion. I know you prefer standard-construction bullets, and don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking them. I know they can do everything needed. But I also have shot enough game with enough different bullets to know that at least some of the more modern/complex/expensive bullets do have a significant advantage in terms of performance. There was a time when a friend and I were culling about 10 animals a week. We used three different calibers (7x57, .308 and .30-06) and shooting Impala (a similar-sized animal to a smallish White-tail) and Blue Wildebeest (which is probably fairly similar in size to an Elk but with a reputation for unreasonable toughness). We did so with a range if different bullets ranging from the most basic cup-and-core to some fairly exotic stuff. One bullet signifcantly and markedly outperformed everything else we tried (including Barnes X) in all three calibers. That bullet is manufactured here in South Africa and would probably be hard to find over there, but is very similar to the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. Thus a lathe-turned copper hollow-point with a bonded lead core in the front half and solid copper in the rear half. On the one hand this construction means that it physically can't lose more than about 40% of it's mass (actually the few I have managed to recover all retained more than 90% of their mass), which guarantees excellent penetration. On the other hand, since copper is softer than gilding metal and since they have a relatively flat ogive, these bullets actually expand faster than most cup-and-core bullets, imparting a lot of shock to the animal. Now again, I know that normal cup-and-core bullets do the job. But the way these bullets put game down makes them worth the cost as far as I am concerned. I am confident that a 100gr bullet of this type will out-penetrate the 120's you were looking at here. Anyway, thanks for sharing your experiences, they make us all richer. God bless from South Africa.

[@charlesporter1148]

Most people dont work on alignment technique and natural point of aim...the reticles should jump straight up and back down on the aiming point upon firing with the rifle tracking straight back...the front rest should be aligned 90 degrees to the rifle axis and the ears of the rear bag should be aligned parallel to the rifle axis..dry fire on this set up to make sure the reticles stay put on the aiming point...this procedure must be mastered before you start looking for your best load..

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I've heard said before that reticle shouldn't move at all when dry firing but I never could get to that point.

[@charlesporter1148]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving ....with the rifle butt snugged into the V of your rear sand bag and bottomed out so completely stabilized get your rifle naturally aligned at the center of your aiming point while focusing straight at the reticle/ crosshair...settle into position without disturbing this alignment...without gripping the pistol grip hard , apply firm straight back squeeze on the trigger to maintain rifle alignment on aiming point till trigger breaks....focus only on crosshair...not target...observe crosshair jump straight up on verticle plane with center of aiming point...this shows rifle has tracked back directly in path of alignment...repeat procedure for each round.....charlie porter....interservice competitor m14 rifle...

[@WayStedYou]

You could try and find some stubbier 120 grain .257 bullets. There are 100 grain .243 projectiles that have better stability than 90 grain accubonds because they aren't as long with a 1:10 twist

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I've noticed a lot of people have commented on having good accuracy from a 120gr roundnose which I thought was interesting and ties into your point about stubbier bullets.

[@johnkendall6962]

To get the best results out of the Roberts you need a long action if you want to shoot longer heavier bullets. If you are using a short action the Roberts doesn't offer much over the .250-3000. If you need the long action you might just as well go for the .25-06 and get the best of a worlds. It can be loaded to .257 Roberts velocities. or full throttle. The brass is easier to come by and can be made from any other case like the 30-06.

[@leonharris1329]

Tom I'm with you on not useing a hand on top of the scope.my late 338 rcm weighed in at 8 lb exactly. I once fired a 30 shot group at 100 yds with this gun useing all three Hornady loads and 7 of my pet loads ranging from 160 gr ttsx to 250 gr rem corloke .all 30 shots were inside a 4 inch group shooting off of 2 sand bags. This gun recoiled a little more than a 30 06 and was fired without holding down on top of the scope. ThT was without doubt the most effective and consistent rifle that I've ever owned.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Leon whatever happened to the 338 rcm's? I haven't heard anything about a Ruger compact mag in awhile. Does Ruger even still over a rifle in that or us it pretty much gone at this point?

[@leonharris1329]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving there is still a high dollar bolt gun and some custom ar 10s os chambered but basically gone. It was Who is to say on the 338 rcm? It would push 250 gr bullets at 2500fps and 160 ttsx barns at 2980fps. It was deadly on deer and probably any north American big game. Basically a duplicate to the 338 A Square. I had lengthened the magazine to 3 inches , pillar bedded the action, removed all excess wood fron the laminated stock and installed 1x4 leupold scope. It served me well but was to much gun for .my needs so I let it go in a weak moment. It was replaced with the model 70 Featherweight 6 5 creemoor and a lee enfield no1 mkiii *. I have to have a project to work on T all times. Have a good day and God bliss.

[@PC-uh6hk]

When you shoot and experiencing barrel jump, keep your hand under the fore stock as if you're shooting in the field and keep a good grip on it. You may try a good bench position without the sandbag and butt rest. Pull the butt of the rifle firmly into your shoulder. Going back to basics is what I'm talking about.

[@dennyhooper8987]

Thanks Tom, very informative!

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I'm glad you enjoyed it Denny.

[@dennyhooper8987]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving i really enjoy you’re videos & i’m learning a lot in the process . I’m not a great hunter, but my father was. As far as walking & stalking all day, i could never hold a candle to him. He relayed a story of being given four shells for his rifle , as a kid & telling me how angry his father would be if he fired one & had nothing to show for it. Way different times back in the early 19 hundreds.

[@beamonk]

Gunblue 490 has a good video on exact rifle

[@cbsbass4142]

Yes he does and it shoots like a needle with 100 gr Match Kings

[@gordonrizzuti6048]

Thanks Tom, I always learn something from your videos. I'm curious if there is any reason behind your preference for .023" Jump? Thanks.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Gordon that just seemed to always be a good starting point. .020" used to be sort of the standard starting point but I added .003" just to account for measurement error and I figured trying for .023" will ensure I'm always between .020" and .025" and for me that just seems to be the best distance? Less than .020" and pressures start increasing rapidly and more than about .028" and pressures and velocities start dropping really quick. But I will say I think a lot of the newer high B.C. bullets do better with more jump than the older style bullets? I hope that helps.

[@craiglacount89]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving I rarely ever get that close. Usually I’ll not get any closer than .050. If you ever noticed much of the ammo you buy is much shorter than that and many times it’s .100 off the lands or more and you’re able to achieve relatively good accuracy and your also getting decent velocities. I realize it’s hard to find 257 Robert’s ammo but the same holds true for other calibers. I would try backing off the lands to at least .050 and see what it does. I believe you’re not going to suffer on velocity enough to make a difference. And of course if your using an all copper bullet at least .050.

[@leonharris1329]

I've always been big on getting vkose to the lands but the no 1 thing that caused my new model 70 featherweight to start grouping was backing up an extra .040 to an oal of 2.780 6.5 creedmoor 140 nosler partition

[@RogerSnell]

This makes for a very interesting video series! I was going to ask about comparing the XTR to the new rifle as well as the rifling twist. I've learned to watch the whole video before I comment on stuff you're probably going to mention anyway. Lol

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Roger, you'll really get to see a comparison between the XTR and the new one in the next video.

[@RogerSnell]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Really looking forward to it. I love this series and the 257 Roberts!

[@rmatteson3142]

Saw 115 Nosler Ballistic tips for less than 30 bucks on Gnbroker. Thats before shipping and sales tax. The store had about 30 boxes. Lots of .257 bullets to choose from. Lots of 117 grain and 120 grainers too. I think you already have Sierra Game kings. sawplenty of them.

[@leonharris1329]

I thank you will get the 120 gr bullets to work. Try nosler partitions and different seating depths 25 and 50 shorter. Also the dreaded 4831 shortcut.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Leon I just picked up a pound of 4831SC this weekend!

[@leonharris1329]

You will love it with heavy flat based or round noise bullets

[@ryanstines9748]

As always, an enjoyable video. IMHO, it only makes sense to use a cleaning rod and new brush to get the ACTUAL twist rate, rather than what it may have been published to be. I certainly agree with a better free float, but this really seems like a stability issue. Can’t wait for next video!

[@kentowens2179]

That thing acted like the barrel was touching the stock on one side. I'd bet it'd do better if you give her some clearance, and try your same loads again. Enjoyed your video.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Kent my thought was seating depth issue with all of the horizontal variation? But you will love what it turns out to be! It's a good one! LOL

[@keithprinn720]

yet another featherweight video, once upon a time a decent rifle but that was decades ago.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I think they're still decent rifles and as good as pretty much everything else out there, but I do prefer the older ones.

[@leonharris1329]

My new featherweight is wonderful in ever respect it took 29 rounds of load development to get sub 3/4 inch groups. I'm pleased. Keep up the good work Tom and God bliss you and all of yours.

[@Zachrys]

I think you’re gonna take a good buck this yr with one of these Model 70s. Almost deer scoutin time

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I sure hope so Zachry! And was just thinking I need to hurry and get this rifle dialed in because season is getting close.

[@Zachrys]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Yes I’ve been counting down the days.

[@repairfreak]

Hello Tom and congrats on your beautiful new rifle. Your game plan sounds like a good one to eliminate variables. However from the little I know about these things, wouldn’t you just want to try to see if it groups well with standard store bought ammo of the most popular bullet weight sold for the .257 that is known to stabilize well in a 1:10 twist? Such as in the .270 Win the 130 grain is the most common. I would imagine the .257 Roberts also has a most commonly sold bullet weight. Perhaps though it is impossible to find this caliber in the stores nowadays, so thus my point would be mute. But it would seem like if possible, this would quickly eliminated many variables all at once, and tell you that it is the 120 grain just not being able the be stabilized & not other rifle problems? However I do know you main goal however is to get 120 grain to shoot straight, and of your own hand-loads. Best of luck my friend, I always enjoy your videos. God bless. 😎👍

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Good point on the ammo Mike, but it isn't available. I can't remember the last time I saw 257 Roberts on the shelf and I suspect it could be several years before I see it again? It was fairly rare before this although I could usually find a few boxes at decent gun shop. But I do have every confidence in my reloads it's just going to be a matter of figuring out what's going on here and finding the right load.

[@arniegudgeon570]

I have a Ruger 77 Ultra light 1-10 twist 257 Roberts it does the best with 100 grain bullets, So that is what I use it does great on deer

[@luvtahandload7692]

The twist rate and your choice of bullet is not an issue. Leave the scope alone. Sand down the barrel channel and/or dremel off the tip of the screw. Torque the front screw good and tight. Rear screw/s should be a little more than snug. Thanks Tom!

[@sergeantdwz5783]

Tom, Taking a leupold off and replacing it with a Redfield even for testing is a sin! 😉 I know the old Redfield were made by em but I've gotta give a moment of silence for that VX2

[@ricktaylor3748]

Tom, you're not holding the forearm down, that's why your groups are all over the paper. I can see the barrel jump to the right. You should try some 90 grain Sierra HPBT bullets. The 120 grains are a little heavy.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Rick there's generally going to be some muzzle jump with most hunting rifles, but the jump on this one is very small and shouldn't be an issue? Now in the future when I take the XTR to the range then you'll get to see some muzzle jump! It will jump clean off the rest and that's not common.

[@leeadams5941]

Well, I really liked this one, figuring out what a rifle is really doing, I'm very interested in seeing what you come up with. There are so many things it could be it just takes time. and Your right, especially with today's prices, you just can't go out every time you make one improvement and shoot...I'll be sitting here next week if the creek doesn't rise and waiting to see what you come up with...God Bless and have a great week.

[@ajtaylor560]

Wow that was painful. See if you can find some flat base bullets in the weight you want. I have a 30-06 that will only flat bases decently. Just a thought. Awaiting your results keeping in mind one of your criteria is shooting heavier bullets.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

AJ, you're right that was painful! LOL But it gave me a starting point and let me know what I was up against here. Right now I'm sorting out the issues but soon I will be doing a lot of experimenting with loads and you are absolutely right about a flat base bullet sometimes making all of the difference on getting good accuracy.

[@cbsbass4142]

Incidently, the 7X57 will clear 5-6 bills cold but will stick occasional around that same location as yours. So, hot, the clearance may be decreasing. As for recoil...well...with the Model 94 in 32 win Spl, it not only kicks like a mule, it holds me down on the ground and calls me names. :)

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

LOL and I don't doubt that one bit on your model 94! And that was a great point about the clearance changing with a warm barrel because heat makes a difference.

[@cbsbass4142]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Yes, I took the .32 out first with just that metal buttplate. Got a nice bruise. This time I wimped out and put a slip on recoil pad. Still jars the teeth a little. Now I had .30-30 and don't remember recoil like that, but shot mostly 150s. The 170s plus the bigger bullets is a little different. :)

[@leonharris1329]

Another thing Tom, don't forget about 6mmremington and 7x57 brass. Makes good 257 Robert's ammo.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Great point Leon, I had already thought about that with the 7x57 brass but for some reason I hadn't even considered it with 6mm brass even though I know it's based on the 7x57 case also.And I actually have 6mm brass and no rifle in 6mm so if worse comes to worse one day that brass will become 257 Robers brass!

[@ssmith32183]

I’ve got a leupold on almost all my hunting guns and never had one that wasn’t dead on reliable.

[@Joe-lk6oc]

The 257 Roberts is a very gentile cartridge. Recoil even with the heaviest loads should not be excessive at all. Good luck on looking for a good load. God bless.

[@martinfitzpatrick6632]

Hope you can get those 120 grains to group well. Loving these episodes 👍

[@bobd8553]

There are very few quality videos on KZbin in regards to the .257 Bob. Thank you for producing this excellent series.

[@slowtwist]

I think you are headed down the right path to dialing this in. My 25-06 likes the 100gr. Nosler partition bullets But I have a 1-12 twist. I wasted a lot of loads on a Ruger #3 that I rechambered to 221 Fireball because I had a broken screw in one of the mounts. I like the rubber harmonic balancers on light barrels, I closed up the group on my 25-06 with this.

[@hammerheadms]

Definitely looked like you had some stringing going on at the range. I bet that barrel clearance could be a major factor.

[@warrenporter302]

the minute i saw the group i thought wood touching steel. barrel twist maybe, bullet possibly, could be flat base verses boat tail. the scope is easy to test just do the 4 corner test. Powder possibly (Good luck with that one) anyway good luck im sure youll work it out its only time and money LOL!

[@cbsbass4142]

The 7X57 FW seems a bit short throated. Not sure. It would chamber PPU factory at a length of 3.005 and Federal Power Shocks at 2.972 fine, but would not chamber 154gr SSTs seated at 3.000 recommended in the Hornady manual as MAX COL. Bolt would not close and it wasn't even close. So it's an ogive issue maybe with the bullets. Anyway I have one good sub MOA load and will work on more myself. I need to get a modified case for it, or may be stuck making several dummy rounds. I could do that but with brass availability, it wouldn't be my preference. I think I'll try just using a fired case seating a bullet, take the measurements, then just pull the bullet from the brass. I just love projects like this. :)

[@jaybailleaux630]

I have not loaded .25 cal bullets I years. If Sierra still makes the 100 gr and 117 gr. Pro Hunter flat base. I'd try that . Flat base bullets in my opinion obdurate to seal the bore better especially if the bore is slightly oversized. I have had good luck with H 4831sc on the slow side and IMR 4064 on the faster side. I have seen the exception for every rule when searching for rifle accuracy in a mass produced hunting rifles. It is almost a shot in the dark. I've seen some rifles like bullets jump as much as 1/8 in. and some touching the lands. It sucks if it is a scope issue. That means you have to start all over again with load development after replacing the scope.

[@cbsbass4142]

My .243, .25-06 shoot well with flat base bullets at shorter ranges. The .243 cries for IMR 4064 with 75-80 gr bullets. :)

[@easttexan2933]

Next trip to the range after making those two adjustments, make sure you have a few 100gr rounds with you. Then you will know immediately if the bullet weight is the problem. Personally if it were me I would leave the scope you have on it now in place and test the 100gr'ers first and if you still shooting 3" groups, change the scope at the range. Just me though.

[@johnkendall6962]

Whats the longest length a short action rifle can hold

[@davidwooten1330]

Stringing is a pretty good sign that the barrel is touching ol son..I would knock down that high spot and then re shoot the same rounds,before changing scope and projectiles.just my two cents worth.

[@rmatteson3142]

You shot consistently to the right. I think you shoud start with the barrel . Try a 115 Grain bullet. but fix the barrel channel first.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

The barrel channel is fixed and I'll start experimenting with bullets soon but I doubt I'll be able to find any 115gr bullets? Options on 25 cal bullets are few and far in between right now.

[@rmatteson3142]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving A honady 117SST bulletis a good one. I shoot those as 257 Roberts in my Rifle. Very accrate with sb MOA groups. But they are Factory Loads. The Box claims 2945 Muzzle velocity. I dont have a chronograph. I have some Nosler 115's.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

@@rmatteson3142 Some 117gr SST's just arrived. But I honestly hated myself for buying them because I'm still ticked at Hornady's CEO. But I've always had great results with SST's in the past so I'm looking forward to trying them. And you're right it is a good bullet. And I managed to find some Nosler 110gr bullets to try as well so I have plenty to experiment with now. And I don't know if Brownells still has them but they had Federal 210 Primers this morning if you need any.

[@rmatteson3142]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving 110's should be some real screamers! Noslers are mega-deadly. I bought a Box of 115gr Nosler Balistic tips from Mid south last night along with a box of 103 ELD-X Hornady's for my 6MM Remington!

[@drunknnirish]

That is such a beautiful rifle!

[@NCWoodlandRoamer]

Do you not do any actual load development to determine a velocity node and then test seating depth from there?

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Alan, I've experimented with the Satterlee method or optimum charge weight (OCW) before but I haven't been terribly impressed by it. And I feel I get better results quicker just using the old standard incremental testing, or ladder test, where I load 4 cartridges at a charge weight and work my way up. The majority of the time I get my best group with the charge that has the lowest standard deviation in velocity and really finding the charge with lowest standard devation in velocity is all we're trying to do by finding a velocity node. And for myself I've never seen where seating depth made much of a change in accuracy. I believe it makes more of a difference on the newer high B.C. bullets and they generally like to have a lot of jump but I've never gotten good results from standard hunting bullets with a lot of jump. Or at least that's been my experience but I plan on experimenting more with this in the future.

[@leonharris1329]

Just curious Tom, are both of your .257 Robert's rifles long action or short?

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Both are long and that's something I'm going to get into with the next video.

[@leonharris1329]

That is good it allows you to have a lot more space for a good slow burning powder like your 4831sc or vhitavor n550.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

@@leonharris1329 And I'm going to try 4831sc hear real soon along with Ramshot Hunter. I've never tried any of the Vhitavor powders I hear its great stuff.

[@georgeapostolopoulos2374]

If you can Tom only make one change at a time and try to see what you get if you change 2 or 3 things you won’t know which one was the fix nosler used to make a 115 partition that might be good with the 1 in 10 twist but I understand they might be pricy and hard to find I would sand the stock and try again then if nothing changes change the scope would shoot lighter bullets just to see but I understand you want the heavy ones Speer hot core is very underrated bullet and most get fantastic results in accuracy and performance on game hope you can get the Speer 120s to shoot

[@leonharris1329]

Tom forgive me for asking questions but I'm just trying to help in my feeble way but what is your oacl on. Your 257roberts ammo?

[@gizmocarr3093]

I think you have a good plan for your next testing. Bullets of the same weight often just don’t shoot as well as others of a different brands in every rifle. The same is true for factory-loaded ammunition. I found accuracy improves from making certain changes for all rifles. Using fire formed brass formed from the rifle for testing is one. Using a neck-sizing die is another. Reducing the distance to the lands to about ten thousandth of an inch doesn’t hurt either. The same ideas Benchrest shooters frequently do works on any rifle and most are simple to do. I would use three shot testing groups instead of five and save bullets and money. Then eliminate the less accurate ones to the two best of five tested. The targets you use for sighting in are not the best for testing loads. Ones made of non-reflection paper used for target matches are better. You can add a sticker or aiming dot if you want the size you like. If you are concerned about your shooting technique do some dry firing first and see, what the rifle does using different holding techniques. I always take an accurate 22 rifle to warm up shooting before wasting valuable center fire ammunition. These are just more steps that reduce variables, I used to help me shoot better that might help you too. 🤔🙂

[@jaybird2319]

Bullet…$.75cents, powder….$.75cents, primer…$2.00, the look on Joey’s face after checking your 1st group…😳priceless. Hang in there Tom, at least it wasn’t keyholing👍

[@sandybarnett7502]

My Remington 257 will not group the 120's

[@nohandle257]

I'll watch this later after internet church but regarding your previous video and your mention of the 'perfect' discharge so to speak. I hunt hogs and often go a few days without pulling the trigger. It's hot now and I haven't been practicing at all really. I usually, almost always really, hit the hog I aim at and they usually drop right there, but often needing a quality assurance shot if they try and raise their head. But yesterday I took out my AR in 6.5 Grendel to assure myself my thermal scope was still spot on. I saw I have a flinch. Small but noticeable. And that with a heavy rifle that almost kicks like a 22 rimfire. I was hitting off about 2 inches. And it proved to be ME not the scope. I was not employing all the fundamentals, not following through and even closing my eye at the shot. Terrible. I am ashamed. Practice people, practice. And bench shooting is not enough. Shoot like you do when hunting. I use sticks cause I'm old and shaky.

[@TonyYork-KB9RAO]

I have never been willing to change my shooting style to make a rifle shoot accurately. That idea has never made much sense to me. ( referring to hand on top of scope to hold it down)

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Tony I could see changing my style for a really hard recoiling cartridge but not for a 257 Roberts.