Fit And Finish of Hunting Rifles; And What Most Get Wrong

Fit and Finish actually effect more than the looks of rifle, and since we're about to do a deep dive on both fit and finish with the 1903a3 and FN Supreme I thought this would be the perfect time to talk about both.

[@bobd8553]

I just go ahead and push the “like” button before watching the video because I know it’s gonna be good.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I appreciate that Bob

[@robertmoore6700]

Listening to Tom is like sitting in the clubhouse after a hunt on a cold December night. It is just comfortable. I love the way he explains everything. Like two brothers jawing. Thanks Tom, I agree with you 99.9 percent of the time. Look forward to. Next video.

[@teasquared09]

This guy is like the adult man's version of Mr. Rogers. Nice, humble, soothing voice, and great info. I like the cut of your Jib, Tom; keep up the good work.

[@mikeellis4571]

I absolutely love your channel Tom. Keep up the good work! God Bless!

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks Mike, I appreciate that.

[@romansivers]

Hi Tom, thank you for making these videos! I love your sense of humour! Your videos are very informative and strike a balance between entertaining and deeply technical. You have a great presentation style. Just perfect. Cheers from Canada!

[@jims9249]

Nice rifles. This was a great discussion.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks Jim

[@Gottaculat]

Interesting point about detachable magazines. I've observed this in a particular videogame called "DayZ," a fairly realistic (minus the zombies) post-apocalyptic survival game. For those unfamiliar with the game, the basic play cycle is you start with virtually nothing, are thirsty, hungry, and cold. You must then loot towns/cities, craft items, hunt/forage, hold people at gunpoint for their stuff, or even worse, murder them for their stuff. How you choose to survive is up to you, and how familiar you are with the world and what can be made/taken from it. Survive as long as you can, solo, or risk forging alliances with other players. If you die, you loose everything, and start over with nothing, possibly several miles from where you were killed. So, if you're looting, and most people will, firearms, unlike other games, aren't guaranteed to have a detachable magazine in them when you find a gun. In fact, most aren't found with mags, and even if they are, there's no guarantee there will be bullets in the mag. If there are, it's very unlikely you'll find a full mag. Even if you find a gun with a mag, many times the guns are in a state of poor maintenance, likely to malfunction, and may even become so damaged they stop functioning entirely. They can, of course, be brought up to a serviceable condition utilizing gun cleaning/repair kits. Since the guns may be found without mags, you can still feed loose ammo in one at a time, but that's a poor, poor situation to be in when someone starts opening fire with a functional firearm with a full mag. So, some players like certain weapons GUARANTEED to have a mag, because the mag is internal. Or a cylinder. So guns like the .357 magnum (based on a Colt Python, I think), various pump and break action shotguns, the SKS, the Mosin Nagant, and the "Hunting Rifle" (Winchester Model 70, I think) are all popular due to being guaranteed to accept multiple rounds. What good is an AK or M4 if you can't find any magazines for it? Granted, if I find either of those, I'll hold onto it until I find mags and ammo, because a 30 round select fire rifle ready to accept a suppressor is infinitely more valuable to survival in such a scenario, even for hunting. Suppressors are still quite loud within a 100-200 yards or so, but they are silent, say, half a mile away. If you drop a deer, you do NOT want your gunshot being heard, and suddenly a curious person shoots you while you're skinning, butchering, or cooking your kill. Anyway, fun (or incredibly tense) game, and I thought the comment about always having your mag was interesting, as it translates between reality and fiction. Learning about, owning/maintaining, shooting, and reloading ammo for guns has been a wild ride since I bought my first gun in early 2019. So much I thought I knew about guns from Hollywood and videogames was so wrong, and it's been strange going back to games after learning so much. I actually dislike many games and movies now, because of how stupid the portrayal of guns are in them. DayZ and Arma 3 are kinda the exceptions, where they get a lot correct, even certain optics, or the weight of ammo. Also the fact getting hit by any bullet is a big, really big problem. Many times I've been going through a town for supplies, and my screen suddenly goes black and reads, "You are dead." Never knew what hit me. Never heard a thing. Like a light switch was flicked, and now I'm dead. Guy could have been right behind me, or 600 yards away. I'll never know.

[@swkohnle08]

Great video Tom. Always enjoy your commonsense approach to hunting rifles. Thanks Tom, have a great rest of your weekend.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks Stephen, and you have a great week!

[@brandonbentley8532]

One of the few channels which takes it's time. When I see a new video I brew a cup of coffee and put my feet up...and often end up cleaning or refinishing a rifle before the end of the video...

[@ssearl3231]

I enjoy your common approach to rifles. I feel the same way as you it is all about putting meat in the freezer. Thank you for sharing your personal knowledge

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

And thank you for your comment

[@willy286]

Love the Winston matches. The owner was thinking ahead just in case. Long before the Bic lighter. Fun to watch. Thanks again Tom.

[@clapton924]

Length of pull is so important. I have shorter than average arms and most shotguns come with very long stocks. I've settled on a Beretta that comes adjustable from the factory. Makes a big difference.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

On the opposite extreme I had a good friend that was 6'5" and he struggled to find firearms with a longer length of pull. And he loved Berretta shotguns for the same reason you went with one, the adjustability.

[@ronws2007]

23:20 So eloquent and succinct. For all of us viewers, if you only learn one thing about shooting a rifle, it is his words right here. The balance point. The rifle and shooter are most accurate when the rifle is balanced and you use your own body for support, an improvised monopod, of you will. don't get me wrong, I take my tripod when hunting if I get a chance to post at a spot. But if you do not have time to set up a tripod or sticks or borrow a tree branch for stability. Notice in his stance, there is no tension or trembling, solid and yet pliant. That is how you bring home some venison. And totally spot on about the fit. I have a Mossberg Patriot with a poly stock shaped much like this. And just not comfortable. I am a large guy with long arms and I have other rifles that have adjustable features. And now, I am going to fit the Patriot into a chassis system I have ordered, with an adustable stock. I can change length of pool and cheek rise. My use is hunting. In winter time, wearing layers, I might need a bit less length of pull. In summer, I wear a t-shirt and a safari shirt. The safari shirt hides my gut and my gat (daily carry.) Point being, you need recoil management so that shooting does not create pain or injury. And a bruise is an injury. That is damaged tissue being flooded with blood and that is not a good thing. And make it comfortable to you. More important having the most expensive scope ever is being consistent, like in bowling. Get a fit that is right every time and here is why. Zeroing a rifle is multi-faceted. The zero is a combination of that particular run of ammo in that specific rifle with atmospheric conditions reacting against your individual body. Get that down tight. Because you could hand your rifle to someone else and they would have to re-zero because their body handles recoil differently.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

We are definitely in agreement on a lot of things, but I always find it curious what the majority of people are interested in. I could do a video on the latest cartridge or budget rifle and that video would do well but starting talking about fundamentals and most just aren't interested. It's a curious world.

[@ronws2007]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Well, I guess, one could go about it with, as you have pointed out, the type of hunting you are going to do. The guys hunting elk need long action, such as a 7 mm Rem Mag or .30-06. But how many people have trained and learned to shoot that? There is a world of difference in recoil between one of those and an AR-15 someone plinks with at the range. And you can hunt with an AR-15, depending on game. I hunt feral hog with my AR-15 style rifle, the Windham Weaponry M4A3 Dissipator. I really like the iron sights but I may put one of my Diamondback Tactical scopes on it. And I agree, the shooting fundamentals are key. So, that might help choose. For example, if going to hunt whitetail or blacktail or large blacktail AKA mule deer, then get use to the .308 win. It is a short action. Ranging out to 600 yards provides good power for stopping the vital organs and bring the animal down quickly. And that could inform what kind of rifle and set-up you need. If all you need is to sit in a blind with a feeder 70 yards away, then a .308 in a cheap stock with a second focal plane 3x-9x/40 mm is all you are going to need. Zero at 100 yards, your holdover will be the crosshair sitting just on top of you desired point. At 70 yards, the bullet is less than an inch below your point of aim. If you are going to hunt other areas of unknown distance, then a first focal plane scope might be better. Preferrably one with a zero stop. That way, if you dial elevation for distance, you don't have to get lost, just return to zero and set up for the next one, as may. Other fundamentals can be learning how to range. If you use a laser range finder, they don't reflect well off of deer hide so range something else like a fence post or whatever. Anyway, I like watching your vids. You have calm and relaxing demeanor and your accent and speaking cadence remind me of Jimmie Dean and I mean that as a compliment.

[@bobbyboothe8964]

Great information Again. Thank You. God Bless

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I'm glad you enjoyed it Bobby.

[@MrMotorz]

I think so. I have read that Parker Hale also used Santa Bárbara barrels, but I have no reliable data. The SBs are sportive M98 rifles with the only addition of a side safety that also locks the bolt handle, instead of the traditional flag, and on some models like mine the hair trigger. Thanks and best regards.

[@kenlansing1216]

I was told that those half moon butt plates were meant to be placed just above the bicep which is why those same stocks often had a cast to them.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I've never heard that but I doubt it especially for the really early rifles.

[@kalicom2937]

Another great vid, Tom!

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks Kalico

[@ffoxyff]

another great video! Really good information. Thanks for sharing.

[@MrMotorz]

Totally agree. I am preparing an old Santabárbara, very similar to the FN (M98). I've already ordered the butt plate. At the moment I am not going to do bedding until I can really see how it shoots, although I already have the material ready. They are famous for the quality of their barrel and for grouping in their original configuration. Thanks and best regards.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Those are great actions and if I'm not mistaken that's the action Parker Hale used for their rifles? It should make for a very fine rifle.

[@kentowens2179]

Nice video Tom!

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks Kent

[@paulsimmons5726]

Another cool video about reworking these rifles. I can't wait to see how that '03 turns out; I have a soft spot for those rifles. It's hard to believe that even the newest of them are over 70 years old and they're still functional. Thanks for posting!

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I'm glad you enjoyed it and You're right it is hard to believe they're that old now. And sadly they won't be making any more of them.

[@jeanmorin3247]

Tom, you do me good! When I end a video I think that I know it all until the next video... It feels good for a while. Thank you!

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

And thank you Jean for your comment.

[@edohrling5205]

Fantastic, I’m just starting to set up hunting rifles for my young daughters and your videos are helping me explain things to them. I am currently working on 2 of there grandfather 30-06 for the kids . Thank you

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I'm glad they're helping Ed and thanks for sharing that because it really is nice to know some my videos are helping someone out.

[@teacheng3795]

I just love your videos Tom, really interesting and informative, and pleasure to listen to you explaining things that are perhaps not thought about too much otherwise. best wishes from Australia

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks teach eng, I really do appreciate that.

[@easttexan2933]

When you started cycling the bolt on the 03 I swear I had 3 eargasms lol. What a sweet rifle. That's the one I would keep if they were in my possession. We are all looking forward to the refinish videos of these two.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I do have a soft spot for the a3. And I got the first coat of linseed oil on the FN today. I'll start doing some shaping on the a3 this week and hopefully get the first coat on the a3 soon?

[@DeerHunter308]

I heard about a guy today who hunts in an fairly closed in wooded place and he uses a 7 mm Mag !

[@nickcirillo6191]

Excellent

[@scottscheuerman6170]

I got a kick out of when you were talking about the reason that guy’s shooting 03 Springfield put there thumb out the side of the grip of the stock it reminds me of the movie sergeant York when they were practicing and the one guy had his thumb in the air when he shot It poked him in the eye would guess that is why my dad would shoot his 03A3 with his thumb out to the side of stock even though he put a bishop stock which was longer in pull length

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I had forgotten all about that scene in Sgt. York. I haven't seen that one in years, and that probably was why your Dad shot it that way.

[@DanThomas-ch6nc]

My wife and I enjoy your videos!

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks Dan, I do appreciate that. And it's nice to know Mrs. Thomas likes them to.

[@rbeichner2001]

Have a great day Tom

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

And you to Stoney

[@repairfreak]

Hello Mr. River, I know just how to make that beautiful Springfield fit real nice...just send it to me, it will fit in my arms real nice!! 🤗 God bless

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Mike, you really wouldn't want it in it's current condition! We'll just say it's a work in progress. LOL But I did get the first coat of oil on the FN!

[@ssmith32183]

I like the savage 110 with accu fit.

[@jmarkley2343]

Hello Tom I would like to see you're rimfire squirrel rifle as a video

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

That's something I'll certainly keep in mind for the future.

[@joshuaprince8456]

You sir are exactly right, 44 mm at the absolute most

[@craigbenz4835]

It is tough to find a new rifle without a detachable magazine, and this is my biggest complaint about new rifles.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I just don't think younger people appreciate the simplicity and dependability of a traditional hunting rifle?

[@craigbenz4835]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Not saying you're wrong, but I just don't see any age relation in the preference for detachable magazines. Most in all ages here seem to prefer them for reasons I don't understand.

[@edwardabrams4972]

Have spent about 60 years hunting and reloading Tom couldn’t be more tight! You will find after you have hunted any length time say 20-40 years that the floor plate and the detachable magazine both have there good and bad points but I have found as Tom was highlighting that the more simple you keep the rifle the less likely your going to have problems in the field!

[@slickdazzler7330]

There's no telling how long those matches had been stored in that butt stock. One of the previous owners probably took that rifle on long treks and took comfort knowing he had those all bagged up and in there in case of an emergency.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

I just hope he had a good screw driver on hand in case he ever needed them!

[@dalanwanbdiska6542]

I like any rifle with a wooden stock . Even better is a rifle with open sights or peep sights. I want to trade my 22 rifle because the sights are fiber optic. Or else if i can order them id change it out. Its a mossberg 702 plinkster . I put on a red dot sight zeroed at 20 yards. I was thinking of trading for a cooey 64 with a 10shot magazine. My mossberg has the 25 shot magazine which makes me not trade it.

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

We don't see very many Cooey firearms down this way but I have heard a lot of good things about them. And I'm not a big fan of fiber optic sights either. I don't mind the fiber optic but the front bead is usually to big to shoot really precisely.

[@davidfriesen9512]

Greetings Tom River. If a wood stock rifle has a crack in the tang and or pistol grip is it absolutely something that needs to be fixed? What if someone just wrapped the pistol grip with hockey tape or duct tape or gorilla tape?

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

David I've seen a lot of rifles and shotguns taped up and people kept using them, but me personally I would get it fixed. There are generally 2 different reasons a stock splits there. The first is the wood behind the recoil lug has gotten weak and that lets the action slide backwards and the tang is acting like a wedge. It acting like a wedge is what splits the stock. The other primary reason for that is the manufacture didn't leave enough space between the tang and the stock. There needs to be a small gap there to prevent the splitting. Those are the two main reason that happens and that first reason can get real serious really quick. I'm assuming we aren't talking about a 22 remfire here so it's just not a good idea to use a rifle that could fail and potentially drive a sharp point piece of the stock backwards. On the plus side a gunsmith should be able to fix that easily. In the case of issue #1 he can probably bed the area for the reoil lug, epoxy the crack, and then make sure you have a little clearance on the tang. Issue #2 would be even easier to fix. I hope that helps?

[@kennethsproul9107]

Had a question regarding scope distance off the barrel and the importance of that dimension. The scope is a 3x9x40 Leupold on a Ruger m77 mk11 in 338 win mag. I purchased the rifle used , and preexisting scope was mounted on HIGH Ruger rings. I've been told for years that a scope should be mounted tight to the barrel as possible, with clearance of perhaps 1/4 inch? This is for improving accuracy, and I took it on face value without fully understanding the reason. Anyway the aforementioned Ruger/ scope combo sits about 1/2 inch above the barrel with the high rings, should I change out the rings to the next lower height? The rifle shoots very well, and with the Ruger stock, and my longer face and neck, it seems good enough. Is this a important factor, or should I not worry about it? I think it just bugs my sensibilities, based on always trying to keep the scope /barrel relationship close...

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Kenneth, I wouldn't worry about it. The only thing you would really gain is a slightly better cheek weld but if it feels confortable to you then I wouldn't change a thing. There are some technical considerations as far as having the scope as close to the center of the bore as possible and that giving you slightly more accuracy but I can asssure you it's not enough to even think about. Just look at how many long range shooters are using big scopes on rails to shoot 1000 yards.

[@kennethsproul9107]

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Thanks Tom, sometimes I get obsessed with the small stuff. It is nice to have full confidence in your rifle, considering how hard we work to get the opportunities to be successful....

[@TakeDeadAim]

You should NEVER grab a bolt. The whole process is done with your palm. It's why the bolt handle has a ball, so it simply rotates in the palm of the shooter.

[@user-yf5xk9jk8p]

אני רוצה נשק כזה

[@steemerxaxon1643]

At the 7:54 point talking about thumb hitting their nose ... WHEN I PULL A TRIGGER only my TRIGGER FINGER moves.. if you're moving your WHOLE HAND .... NOT GETTING A ACCURATE SHOT

[@johnbuck6685]

Just get a rifle with composite stock and be done with it end of discussion oh and get it in 270 winchester all other calibers are just 270 wanna be’s

[@billyellis3509]

Mr Tom Its getting close to tuning up that favorite old hunting rifle . Thanks for all you do . Your videos are as always informative. God bless .

[@TomRiverSimpleLiving]

Thanks Billy. I got the first coat of oil on the FN yesterday so it won't be long now. But I do have a good bit of work left on the a3.