Tone King Sky King (It Blowed Up)

[@vanguard9067]

Blowed up real good!

[@dougulman6700]

"gave up the ghost"!!! Heart be still, you are not nearly aged enough for that one! Lol lyle, you are wealth of knowledge in ways I've lost count!

[@marcospintor1333]

My dad is a truck driver and he delivers parts for ToneKing teehee. They share the same factory as Morgan, Friedman, and more. I always tease him to steal an amp for me

[@fc7896]

Like golf clubs. Lots of marketing but mostly built in the same handful of factories.

[@chuckdriver8269]

I’m ready for part two! 🇺🇸

[@ctcards2636]

Tell me about it ! :-)

[@NotAPacifist825]

Same

[@dykeneuk]

The suspense is killing me.

[@ctcards2636]

@@dykeneuk I shake my fists in furious anger !!! :-P lol . I love his videos and they are some of the few i follow and am up to date with. Im glad hes gotten on a few amps recently that i hadnt seen him work on. Im such a nerd for this haha, I could watch these videos for weeks straight LOL!.

[@chuckdriver8269]

We got part 2!! Lyle is the best!!🎸🇺🇸

[@ferraridinoman]

BLEW up!!

[@sgt.grinch3299]

Looks like a quality build. Waiting on part 2 and some nice tones.

[@Bairov]

Loving this episode!

[@fiddlix]

Wow, blowing the ceramic off those wire wound resistors takes one heck of a surge in that area of the circuit. Looking forward to the diagnosis and repair.

[@robbysguitars8223]

Good stuff. We love ourselves a mystery.

[@tommyconancoates7097]

Waiting patiently for part two

[@ronaldgrim606]

I'm seriously considering one of these amps. Great to see the guts and hear your opinion! Can't wait for part two!

[@axe2Mummy]

I recently sold my Falcon Grande because my Swart Antares was just more dynamic and real feeling The tonekings are definitely nice but Micheal Swart is the real deal. No corporate sell outs and more importantly s better sounding amp. Milkman is also a better choice than TK. In my opinion the TK’s have this slight sterile thing happening It’s okay but just not amazing

[@stringlocker]

What does assembled in the USA mean. Where is the actual amp made

[@GuitarLen75]

@@stringlocker Los Angeles.

[@stringlocker]

They are assembled in Los Angeles. I want to know where they are made.

[@axe2Mummy]

@@stringlocker that means it was assembled in the usa with some or all parts and components made overseas. In order for something to be truly made in the usa it must have individual parts and components made in the usa You can do better than tone king

[@WayneMemphisMojo]

Good Morning Lyle, thanks for looking into this amp for me. I know it's in good hands. *edit (I had it set to 8 ohms for use with an OxBox IR load box)

[@chrisdiceart]

Liking this so far... This amp is on my short list! Waiting to here "The rest of the story..." 🙂

[@lescaster2179]

Awesome. I had just asked about the TK Imperial MkIi on the live stream last week.

[@fullwaverecked]

No Smoke King...

[@arnolddealiii4259]

It looks very well laid out, it’s disappointing to see those quick disconnects plugged in wrong for an otherwise clean looking amp! Look forward to the next episode!

[@pauldavis6356]

WOW - on the 10 watt resistors, your were correct - I couldn't see the cracks in the video, but when you put the exacto knife to them they opened up like oysters. I've never seen that before. I'm going to watch part 2 now - great job Lyle.

[@zbaby82]

Looking forward to the next video(s) about this amp.

[@dazfarrell]

So informative, future amp purchases will be more evidence, and design flaw based. Thank you kind sir!

[@SweetSpotSC]

I can’t wait to see the follow up on this one!

[@richardnagamitsu1582]

Nice cliff hanger… I hope the manufacturer is quick to respond…

[@butchlauer]

Such interesting problems from such an interesting amplifier.

[@Crunchifyable2]

I learned something new today! I had/ have a Traynor ycv40 that shipped with 5881s and it has the spring retainers. And I always wondered why it was the only one with the springs and why all the other amps have the bear trap style retainers. And now it makes total sense because the bear trap style ones would not be optimal for 5881s.

[@goodun2974]

Original 5881's (aka 6L6GB) from the 50's and 60's had a full bakelite base, not a "coin" base. I don't know why the modern Russian versions use a coin base..... Back in the 1960s you were more likely to see the coin base on late-production 6V6's or 7591s, and they were often more microphonic than the full base version of those tubes although I don't know that it was simply due to the style of base...

[@goodun2974]

Granted that it would involve additional metal work to the chassis and that costs money, but it would be nice if amplifier manufacturers used one set of bolts or screws to mount the tube sockets and another set of bolts or screws to mount the beartrap type clamps or mounting lugs for the spring type clamps. Ideally you would want the clamps to be mounted with their own set of self tapping screws, or machine screws that go into a threaded-insert fitting inside the chassis so that the owner of the amplifier could swap tube retainers to better match the tubes he is using.

[@waynerd]

So, what is your opinion on the old Tonekings? Anything I need to be concerned about.?

[@PsionicAudio]

Old ones were great.

[@waynerd]

@@PsionicAudio Thanks!

[@driftless.electronics]

I repaired a falcon and an older model sky king with crazy triangular pcbs in the past couple years. Both had little build details that caused problems... Falcon had a side mounted radial cap with a snapped leg from lack of support that took out the relay supply. Cool amps, but they seem to be a bit overcomplicated and underbuilt...

[@0megalul309]

pc mounted tube sockets?

[@ditchgator1]

Very interesting 😎👍

[@goodun2974]

"Velly intelestink ---- vut [does it schtink?"] Apologies to the Laugh-in guy, Artie Johnson. Or perhaps this amp was designed by "Abbie Normal?" 🤔😖

[@rodolphep0nthus555]

​@psionicaudio you seem to be very expert on amps. And I very often hear from you not to spend money on industry amps.. But what, say 15w tube amp would you advise to buy, not boutique, an industrial build easy to buy? Thanks

[@weevilsnitz]

Well, i've never seen the inside of a ceramic resistor before, so thanks. Also, holy crap that's a wild failure mode. Funny to me they cared so much as to scrape the markings off of them.

[@SirLoinMagroin]

I put those coin base tubes in my PRS HDRX-20 because they're supposedly high quality low noise/mil-spec/low microphonic but I also replaced the bear-traps with spring retainers. Surprised those sharp bear trap points don't crack regular tube bases after repeated heat cycles/vibration.

[@PsionicAudio]

They are exactly the same tube as the Sovtek 6L6. Just a different base and a different label.

[@goodun2974]

@@PsionicAudio , why use a coin base for Russian "5881" tubes? Makes no sense.... original US 5881/6L6GB had full bakelite (or brown micanol/micalex) bases. Perhaps they were trying to shave off a little height so the tubes would fit into vintage hifi gear with covers on it? (Except that most hifi didn't use 5881's anyway except in the form of Sovtex 7591xyz repros, which were merely repinned 6L6's). I've rebased a few tubes in my time; not easy to do unless one has a vacuum desoldering station or preferably a solder pot. Never tried it with a coin base tube; breaking the glue bond to the base might be harder than with a regular collar type tube base (for the benefit of others: Dremel a slot in the side of the bakelite base, insert a flatblade screwdriver into the slot, say a silent prayer, and twist the screwdriver!). Easier to just buy the right damn tube!

[@SirLoinMagroin]

@@PsionicAudio Live and learn. I was led to believe the 5881/6L6WGC was a 6P3S-E equivalent like the ones used in Russian MIG jets.

[@SirLoinMagroin]

Hate to break the news.@@goodun2974 The coin base tubes are Taller than the others. Way longer glass envelopes. Sorry. That's seated as well.

[@SirLoinMagroin]

@@PsionicAudio Not so. Measure the envelope length, plus the internals are different as well. Whether or not the specs are the same {which they are not} there is a pronounced difference between the two in almost every area including max plate voltage rating. Still a 23watt tube.

[@gregmize01]

Fly high Sky King😔

[@frankkissane1908]

My guess is the speaker is a relabeled Celestion Vintage 30. 60W rms and 16 ohms, greenish gold basket.

[@PsionicAudio]

That was my guess but it was only a guess. Haven’t heard it yet.

[@williambock1821]

Man I’ve seen those ten watt resistors do that where the smaller 5 watt were just fine. I wonder if there’s a bad batch of those or even a mistake in their design.

[@goodun2974]

I suspect you're correct. In over 50 years of working with electronics I've rarely seen ceramic resistors fail like this.

[@mattg082]

I went through 3 Sky King recently and all had similar issues, down to hum noise and blowing fuses. Had to return them, and went with the Imperial MK2 that just worked. Something is going on with the current Sky King builds for sure. I reached out the MF, and they traded me out a new one…that was my third and final. Better, but still had issues with Ultralinear solid hum coming from inside mechanically. Would cascade to the reverb and Ultralinear. It’s a shame because it sounds very good. But the Imperial MK2 seems to be better built, and they stuck more to the original design. Too many bad reviews and videos of recent Sky Kings. As well as the used market on current builds took a plummet. The Imperial MK2 used, still hold value. Also all these KZbinrs got to pick a Sky King or Imperial they said…they all picked the Imperial. Makes me very suspicious!

[@matthewf1979]

That’s the only time I’ve seen a ceramic 10 watt get hot enough to cook off the ink and split like that! I’d almost wager that the heat alone from the resistors made that cap fail. They had to be hot enough to boil water twice!

[@justinrayguitars6024]

My thoughts exactly. Guess we will see what it looks like under the board.

[@PsionicAudio]

I agree. I have other thoughts but I’m waiting to hear from TK about the OT secondary connections (white wire etc) before doing the next video. But I know what those resistors and that cap are for. And it displeases me. Stay tuned.

[@goodun2974]

@@PsionicAudio , the board itself looks to be high quality epoxy-fiberglas; I've seen similar boards in other equipment and the one thing that slightly annoys me is that it's harder to trace by eye where the foils go. Did the board or the soldering look discolored or broken down from the heat? Those resistors probably should have been perched above the board. I very rarely see ceramic resistors break like that. Perhaps they were defective, poorly manufactured? One other thing about black PCB's: do they absorb heat (presumably infrared) better than they radiate heat? Black is supposed to be ideal for both....

[@cgavin1]

Wow when you split that ceramic cap my jaw hit the flaw. I'm not a scientist but I can only imagine how hot that must have become to cause that .. Amazing it didn't start a fire!

[@PsionicAudio]

Fun fact: those two 10Ws are in parallel, making a 20W component.

[@cgavin1]

@@PsionicAudio

[@jamescfreeman2437]

@@PsionicAudio would that be a 20 watt attenuation component for an amp that is rated at over 20 watts by any chance....

[@jutukka]

Some Tone Kings feature two 50 ohm 10 W attenuation circuit resistors. If they blow open, it means troubles to output stage, OT and output tubes. Maybe those resistors you did so effortlessly that autopsy to, were attenuation resistors?

[@PsionicAudio]

This one has 50W chassis mounted aluminum clad resistors for the attenuation circuit. Stay tuned for what the 10Ws in question were/will be again.

[@jutukka]

@@PsionicAudio OK. Then second guess; they were output stage cathode resistors.🤔😁 Third guess: screen resistors...😅

[@PsionicAudio]

No spoilers

[@murrayguitarpickups9545]

I'm attempting my first ever amp repair. Just scored a peavey rage for ten bucks....jealous? Input jack works intermittently, so I'm gonna replace it or attempt to.

[@stratnut]

I have the earlier handwired version of this amp. Any thoughts to its build quality?

[@ctcards2636]

Thanks for doing a video on one of these. I like their amps. But def interested to know what caused that ceramic to crack like that. Thanks as aways, cant thank you enough. :-)

[@goodun2974]

Obviously the wire coil inside the resistors got hot and expanded sufficiently to crack the ceramic resistor; but it doesn't seem to have burned the board or caused the solder to break down as I would have expected. I suspect the resistors were poorly made..... I've been working with electronics for over 50 years and I think I could count on one hand the number of times I've seen ceramic resistors crack and fall apart like that.

[@Exploboy]

Those sovteks output tubes look 100% like russian made 6P3S-e tubes. I'm using them as 6L6GC equivalent. They're military grade tubes with lifetime about 5000hrs. They were designed to use in avionics like strategic bombers or so.

[@PsionicAudio]

They are, and they’re fine tubes - until they meet a bear trap.

[@mattg082]

I finally got my new one today. I turned power on, tuned guitar up and waited 5 min. Flipped standby and now it won’t turn on at all :(. I haven’t even played a lick on it. Was plugged into a brand new ground socket, I had installed 8 months ago in my studio. So now I’m guessing new fuse? And if they keep blowing…yet another amp to send back 🤦‍♂️. Only fuses I have on me are 2a, this is 3a. So not sure whether to try just to see if it works. Update: went through 3 Sky King amps, and all had loud hum, static or blew fuses. So it’s going back, and sticking with the Imperial MK2. The Tranny and power sections would make a loud buzz mechanically in amp..then it would transfer to the reverb and Ultralinear most the time. Random times the amps would stop producing sound. Also the hum would get louder on the middle attenuator setting? Lots of issues with this build on 3 total I’ve tried….probably should have left it the way it was originally built. The Imperial MK2 I’ve had no issues with, and seems they kept that built pretty close to what it was. Update 2: (October 2023)- I’m happy to say TK/BAD did honor the warranty. It was a board recall for Rev D. As long as you get the newer Rev E, which is in production at the time of this writing…you’re good! You can watch the last TK video in this series and find out. I would just not buy used, unless Rev E is stated by the buyer. I suspect the Rev E and above given they revise years from now should be good. Plus lifetime warranty if defects are found. But only to the original owner. So this does make buying this amp used a difficult decision! New you’re protected and will get the new board that is fixed. Used it is a toss up, and you probably be better off used buying the original Bartel one from 2014 or so. Those can be fixed and worked on at a premium given layout. The Rev D board as seen in this video isn’t one component, but the ground plain all by the power tubes and back. You cannot simply fix that, it will fail not matter what at some point. If it was a component failure no problem. The Rev E has fixed the board and did away with the ground plain issue. So if something does fail, at least it’s repairable. Point and case if an amps PCB board, and these are high grade PCB compared to Fender Reissue and Marshall. They are super thick and durable boards. But a faulty board is the boat, and the people are the pieces that make up the amp. You can’t sail, if you don’t have a boat, but you can buy a ticket if the boat exists. It reminds me of the Marshall TSL2000 days and I owned one. They had so many issues first run, and had to swap the board…however it was revised in the 2000s. Similar case but SKY KING parts, are not just a common buy online like a replacement part or board for a Marshall. I give big credit to BAD/TK for fixing the issue, and honoring the warranty. If this amp is up your ally, it’s a gorgeous sounding amp. Very much worth to buy it new, and try to get the price down to $2600-$2700 range…that’s about what I paid. And yes I am happy with the amp, regardless of the bad timing when I bought it. BAD/TK covered all shipping costs as well.

[@stringlocker]

What does assembled in the United States mean.

[@Lu_Woods]

effin pharma ads...they are going to drive me away from youtube

[@PsionicAudio]

“Do not take this brand new wonder drug you’re only just now hearing about if you’re allergic to this brand new wonder drug.” “Ask your doctor about this new drug she probably hasn’t heard anything about yet. Did we mention it’s new?”

[@Lu_Woods]

@@PsionicAudio ...and it's the humor and wit that keeps me here, thanks ; ) (also the Amps)

[@BeantownToBigD]

@@PsionicAudio Commonly reported side effects include: ataxia, skin rash, headache, insomnia, and nausea. Other side effects include: infection, dyspepsia, abnormal gait, constipation, and drowsiness. Continue reading for a comprehensive list of adverse effects...

[@samuel_towle]

I can't say that I have ever seen a ceramic resistor that had broken from anything other than physical impact. Seeing two of them, side by side is very strange. Is it possible they might have been damaged prior to installation? Did you see any signs of thermal damage to the PCB near those resistors? I would think if they got hot enough to crack, that there would be some damage there. Interesting wiring modification.

[@PsionicAudio]

No heat damage to the board. More on this soon.

[@Earlvis]

So it’s a Blown King 😆😆😆

[@frankbennett3075]

What a cliff hanger.

[@axe2Mummy]

4:24 These retainers biting the tube glass is a huge oversight on BAD’s part If I remember correctly my Falcon Grande came with Tungsols that had a full sized plastic base. Also I thought the sky king was the one Tone King model that was p2p not circus board. Great video 🎉

[@lescaster2179]

I'm not (yet) convinced those are factory or not. TK specs say: 4x12AX7A, 1x12AT7, 2x6L6GC, 1x5AR4. I'd like to think they would clearly define those as 5881 and not 6V6, if that's what shipped in the Amp. They do clearly define on other amps when they're using a 5881, like on the TK Gremlin Head where it's clearly indicated as such.

[@PsionicAudio]

I don’t know that the 5881s are factory. I hope not.

[@goodun2974]

@@lescaster2179, Original US production of the 5881 would have had a full base, typically a Brown Micanol or micalex base (resistant to arcing). The 6L6GB (same voltage and wattage rating as the 5881) was typically equipped with a black bakelite base ,and sometimes in a fatter bottle, but roughly the same height. Coin-base tubes, even vintage ones, usually suck! (Often microphonic). Note that the 6V6GTA is rated for 350 V and 12 W of dissipation (although many amps exceed this) and the 5881/6L6GB is rated, IIRC, for 430 v and 23 watts or thereabouts. I generally wouldn't recommend putting 6V6's into an amplifier that was designed for the 5881/6L6GB, not without knowing the parameters of the circuit, and Although the 5881 might be substituted for 6V6's, the 5881/6L6 draws twice as much heater current so again it really helps to know how well the amp is built. There would also be some output transformer impedance mismatch as well......

[@PsionicAudio]

You’re talking about old real 5881s. Soveteks are just their 6L6GCs with a coin base.

[@goodun2974]

@@PsionicAudio , I am mystified as to why they'd use a coin base....and although I can understand why Sovtek might want to not bother making a lower-rated tube such as the 5881, they really should have tried to makea 6L6GC version with the shorter bottle of the 5881/6L6GB....

[@mrbuttons1243]

You're like an amp Sherlock Holmes.

[@jimmyjoefine]

The wire being disconnected and the discrepencies between the printed and actual location of the other wires is very odd. You would think they would get that right on a $3000 amp, but I would be shaking my head to see a wire just dangling about like that, with a connector on it no less.

[@lescaster2179]

We don't yet KNOW that this is a factory issue yet, or not. Just like those 5881's that don't match the specs on a Sky King.

[@almoreno8852]

Would love to see you get your hands on an original 64 Vibroverb or 64 custom.

[@themodularmodular]

It looks pretty good, but sorry.. if I have to shell out that kind of money I'll look for different brand. Even my cheap Ampeg never gave me issues.

[@TNTales]

I really like my Gremlin I wonder what it looks like in the guts. I hesitate to take it apart

[@David.S.]

Yikes, very interesting. Also, let's see how many try to correct the blowed vs blew ;) It's humour, people.

[@bobjones7082]

It fell..

[@PsionicAudio]

Nope

[@camielkotte]

ConFused here. Is it " blew up"? (Non native English here)

[@PsionicAudio]

“It blew up” is proper English. I was using bad English on purpose for a light comic tone.

[@robertbarnes9745]

It blowed up real good!

[@ushnicyuvnikof2748]

I had a Tone King Gremlin. It was junk. They pay content creators to give them rage reviews, obviously. It's definitely a brand to avoid - very cheap inside. I'm not impressed - over hyped. My AC15C1 with a different speaker and reverb tank is the sweetest amp I own, yet boutique guys will turn their nose up at it.

[@PsionicAudio]

Well, I’ve only been inside this one current TK. So I can’t speak for the other models. It’s not junk. But it’s not IMO a $3K build. The AC15C1 is a really great amp for the price.

[@Michael-bm8hi]

This is so disappointing to see. Clearly I will continue staying away from BAD made stuff. It is just about wrapping cheap electronics into candy colored tolex, giving it beautiful names and asking for a clearly unjustified premium. This is especially when thinking longterm not a win-win relationship between BAD and guitarist but a win-loose. There are videos of their production plant (maybe from the one that burned down). For people that have an eye for how a high and consistent quality output plant should look like there are lots of signs making clear that BAD is not there where their marketing promise would like to see them.