Ep. 20 - Tim Pierce on Tone Talk - Top Session Musician - Real Amps or Modelers?

[@ShaneOBrien]

I respect that many of the comments about music, in general, that you folks had discussed, still stands over 6 years after this interview took place.

[@peterschaefer1665]

Another great show! Thank you Marc, Dave and Tim! Marc thanks for the t-shirt! Cheers!

[@bruceanderson8720]

Hey Mark, Dave and Tim I really enjoyed the show and I hope you guys get together and share some more. Thanks.

[@Qstick333]

This was amazing. I wish I could find the brief section again where Tim talks about his string preferences....

[@bobbyu878]

Qstick333 1:58:50

[@sn95_mustang_garage]

The best line from this interview with Tim when discussing people owning lots of amps and pedals. “At some point you’ll have to stop searching for tone and start playing guitar.” Amen brother! I went down this rabbit hole and after a year I sold it all and went simple. For me it’s a Helix, just fits me. I just want to learn more guitar.

[@WhippJunior]

Tim Pierce is a modern day Tommy Tedesco. Great job as always guys. Keep 'em coming.

[@chadeatock6395]

Great session. I need to sit and have a few drinks with Dave. He's on point with everything!

[@passionplayer7]

Fantastic episode guys! Thanks for having Tim on, amazing to hear how someone like him works and operates, cant wait for pt. 2!

[@tonyw1416]

Hooked on this channel. Started marathon watching Grover, John Suhr, and Mike Soldano episodes. These guys all seem to get that most of us are not stars but they were once like us. Great show guys and thank you for allowing me to get inside the heads of some of the guys that influenced me so much!

[@heidibettencourt6543]

🎉😢❤

[@jennyobien8119]

yy6

[@jennyobien8119]

yy

[@rogertheshrubber1135]

Another great show guys. Tim and Pete on the show would be a real treat.

[@Zedd5]

Still one of the best episodes, great stories,still waiting for Part 2

[@Toobzilla]

just caught tims tale @ working for Rick Springfield in the early 80's. we had a player from NH who i kno was a player in Ricks touring band, mid/late 80's.. he also worked with George Lynch. & i kno that recently, he's been John Fogerty's guitar tech. his name is Dave Whiston. he may well have spun in the same circles as Dave & Tim.. curiosity leads me to wonder if either of you had the pleasure of his acquaintance?.. keep up the good work guys!

[@fiddlix]

What a great interview. ....And what a great musician to interview.

[@MrWolf5150]

I really enjoyed that episode. I listened during my morning shower so took it in stages but never got bored. Thank you.

[@toddflowers8052]

Really enjoyed it can't wait for Tim part 2 !

[@RestrictedAirspacePodcast]

Tim is everywhere now. Sheesh. 🎸 🎉

[@Jerrylumdegaard]

Tim is an awesome interview. So many stories!!

[@JamnThang]

Fabulous as always. Y'all keep wonderful, fascinating and informative company, in every broadcast. Thank you!

[@tone-talk]

Thanks so much!

[@alexandrevonstieglitz]

Dave,...! It made me smile when you mentioned Thailand...Indeed, I've lived there for 10 years...You would absolutely love it there...as I also know that you like Thai food...You HAVE to go sometime ...it'll blow your mind ! Peace & Love :)

[@RickHollis]

Another great show, chaps. I don't need no stinkin' tv when I have Tone-Talk. .

[@evilrockinator]

Thank goodness you guys hear the same deficiencies in digital that I do. And I'm old and deaf so I don't see how others don't hear and feel the difference.

[@Dimiguitar]

evilrockinator they are there (even with kemper) but hard to hear in blind tests with smooth transitions, ect.

[@cardbored_]

I sold my Kemper and Controller after a year and went back to real amps and pedals. It was option paralysis.

[@satinwhip]

Love my Kemper. Best music gear purchase I have ever made. Sold a bunch of amps after I bought it. If the Kemper/Axe FX/Helix didn't sound as close as they do to the real amps then the amp manufacturers wouldn't have an issue with them. Nobody complained about the Pod or the Johnson J-Station. Now that digital technology has closed the gap it's suddenly an issue. Most working guitarists just can't afford to drop three or four grand per amp to get all these tones. For less than the price of a used SLO 100 (or new BE 100) I have a full rig (Kemper, foot controller, powered FRFR monitors) including the cost of the profiles I purchased. It's simple economics. Most of the audience can't tell the difference.

[@peanutbutterisfu]

1:21:15 I know what he’s saying and many musicians, engineers, “producers” can’t hear the difference between live amps and modeling amps/plugins when ur in the middle of getting guitar sounds and recording but when the songs are all recorded people like the live amps. IMO the biggest difference is the live amps are much more dynamic and it’s not all the amp u play differently with a live amp every little mistake is heard, the harder or softer u strum or pick makes a big difference. Last album my last band did everyone thought I was crazy and too close to the songs because they couldn’t hear the differences I was hearing in tone but when I got it everyone was happy I took so long. They wanted to use amp plugins because it’s easier.

[@lance134679]

The real amp vs emulations discussion was interesting. I think Tim might be right that there is a subtle difference in digital emulations compared to real amps that may never be solved because everyone is now used to the sound of digital compressed audio. I personally like the process of miking up a real amp. The only thing that would be better is having real tape, but that's too impractical. Whether it sounds better than a Kemper or Helix I'm not sure, but I can quickly get a good sound.

[@JuddLofthouse]

That was a quality 3 hours of great chat ..thanks guys

[@MrDavemiley]

I love every topic you guys covered in this Video. Dave Friedman really knows his stuff !

[@livingabovethe12th]

Tim is right about the top end and Sonics of a distorted guitar in a digital medium....as things get dithered down to nothing, all the upper end hamonic complexity that gets generated by a tube amp gets chopped into a phasey mess. It's those harmonics gives you presence and Clarity and audibility. The modler also makes it hard to hear in a mix for any given volume. I have had the same player with the same guitar play through DI'd Marshall and play through a DI'd fractal of that exact same Marshall and when you listen to it all by itself thru a large system you literally couldn't tell the difference- until he started playing with the band ....and if you put the fractal and the Marshall at the exact same level the Marshall was clean and clear and sat right in the mix the fractal was virtually in Audible and had to be turned up nearly 4db to be heard but then the low mids that came with that started to smear other things. It was very interesting how in the mix is when its shortcomings really became apparent.

[@javymontoya]

I wonder how your experiment would compare with something like a Blues Deluxe and then a Roland Blues Cube Artist. Not a modeler, but modeling the same idiosyncrasies in a full solid state amp. Is it all tube overtones, or is other contributing resonance?

[@slickslade8681]

that was true at one time, but no longer is, they have taken all the upper and lower harmonics (odd and even) and reintroduced un phaze back into the signal, i'm sorry but there is no argument against digital amp modeling that can still be considered relevant, every aspect of a signal from a tube amp is prevalent in the computer signal. they have faithfully remastered the entire chain and latency isnt even an issue anymore, the computer model is every bit as good if not better than the original. I say better because you can boost the aspects that make your tone pleasing and cut any that would make it less than desirable. period.

[@LAboomR]

I listen to the tone talks start to finish and I never do that with anything my adhd your shows are that interesting and the guests are killer.

[@brianmckenzie1318]

Awesome show guys! Loved listening to Tim! Not only is this a fun show, but I actually learn a great deal too!

[@jayy7207]

Another great show guys. Thank you! A big thank you to Tim Pierce as well! Another wonderful guest on the show and clearly a great guy! I was talking with several other fellow guitar and amp geeks at the local music store this week and we were all talking about how great this show is.

[@MrAletube]

anything Tim Pierce is cool,i have the Guitarland cd,great,and his lessons and tips are top of the line!

[@zakkzedras3142]

Great show again guys, thank you - , best thing on YT

[@simonwilliams9916]

Been saving this up for a good day to watch. Great show as always. The format allows you to relax into it and get the best out of your interviewee. Can’t wait for part 2. 🤘🏻👍🎸🤘🏻👍🎸🤘🏻👍🎸

[@julensdad]

Love the Tim Pierce and Steve Farris episode. Inviting Dann Huff would be awesome.

[@alcoyot]

fantastic and informative.

[@nicholaswoolfenden5254]

Enjoyed this. Thank you. Tim plays when the guitarists are too out of it. Including Sambora perhaps.

[@joeyhayek]

One of these days I'll actually catch this live....

[@shorerocks]

In Germany I advertise for Tone-Talk telling everyone - it's like a "Stammtisch" (regular's table), hence the hours it takes to more or less conclude the conversation. Because you can't call this an "interview". Which is your USP, in a way. I love it!

[@timec818]

Thanks again cool show

[@ShawnTubbs]

Darn....Missed this one!!Tim is the best!!

[@tone-talk]

Shawn Tubbs Thanks Shawn! Tim is awesome! Hope you are doing great

[@greendragon2471]

@@tone-talk hey mark can you go back to this way of doing the videos? Going back and forth to the person who's speaking and put who isn't in the corner?

[@tone-talk]

green dragon unfortunately no. This was the old way of going live on KZbin using their google hangout software. It’s not a working software anymore. The only one I know that does that is Zoom now and we don’t use that to go live. Sorry but the new format is pretty cool. Check it out

[@greendragon2471]

@@tone-talk drats! It's all good it's all about the gear obsessed talks anyway! Lol. Thanks for the super quick response!

[@tone-talk]

green dragon no problem! Thanks for watching!!

[@cappy781]

Great episode

[@chrishamm60]

To answer the question in the title: real amps for life! :)

[@sampokantele]

Big Fan of Tim's here! I guess the Ozzy (around 35 mins) thing could be Dweezil's "Staying Alive" track that was originally recorded with Donnie Osmond as lead singer for "Confessions" album. Tim played one of the solos (w/Lukather, Wylde, Bettencourt, DiMartini and Dweezil). I think the track was later released w/Ozzy overdubbing the lead vocals for Bee Gees Tribute.

[@tomulator]

GREAT show! Tim’s awesome. If Lukather’s show goes well...you should have Tim and Luke on together to tell their collective “stories from the studio”!😎

[@mateusd.camargo8964]

00l

[@tonyw1416]

I have a Les Paul Custom and added the string butler but I cannot for the life of mr keep my Les Paul in tune. Tim and I will not have to die lonely as I can feel his tuning angst!

[@inspectionnegross8695]

Sarah's guitarist was Bill Dillon from Hamilton Ontario.

[@wilbur218]

session musicians spilling the beans is excellent.

[@mars6433]

Mind.Blown.

[@kerrybayton8356]

More please..

[@michaelreis8266]

The Babys "Isn't it Time" is a great retro song to cover...

[@cbeserra]

Oh, didn’t realize Tim worked on Human Touch. Great guitar parts on there.

[@RockDrillSuite]

I love Tim Pierce and have viewed nearly every video. This is the 2nd interview where he mentions "Motley Crue's Dr. Love song" when I think he means "Dr. Feel good", Kiss did "Dr. Love". Am I wrong? I think he has it stuck in his memory. Still love his amazing talent!

[@tone-talk]

RockDrillSuite you are correct. It’s Dr. Feel Good

[@stevehawthorn8733]

FYI only, not about Motley Crue, there is a song called Dr Love by Neal Schon's Hardline on their Double Eclipse album, cracking band and album featuring Joey Gioelli on vocals, his brother Johnny on guitar, Dean Castronovo drums and Tod Jensen bass

[@alwilliams1997]

Awesome

[@chrisbarclay]

So good 😊

[@kingfisher7960]

I recently gave myself 2k to buy an amp of some sort. That gave me many options on a nice head and cab or combo. I went with Boss Katana Artists 2 of them. I did this because the downfalls to owning a tube amp are not worth it in 2021. I do like this new tech in solid state. I really like them. I had a 96 Dual Rectifier for many years and had tube issues with one channel. Sold it in 2002. I went Boss because of this even though I almost bought dirty shirley!

[@danpfeifer7618]

Another fantastic show!

[@holyronin]

Modellers are mentioned at 1:19

[@HiHello-ku1fl]

I love Tim Pierce...cool guy but that story about the East Indian limo driver driving him 80 miles out of the way of the gig made me laugh so hard. Oh man that was a good one. :) Great show!

[@jsk8et]

The amp vs digital is rough. Amps are loud and expensive and get broken. Digital is quiet and less expensive and exists essentially virtually. But it's a catch 22. Digital only exists because there are amps to model/profile/insert buzzword for "make a digital copy." But then everyone goes digital and amps die. You can argue amp companies should do something newer, but it's a big risk and there's little incentive since no one plays the digital innovations either. Can you name someone who used one of the Line 6 self-models like "Electric" or whatever else they were called? If no one will buy new, why make it? Don't make the "art" argument; even artists need patrons. The creative process is almost always this: Copy your heroes. Copy their heroes. Then make something as if your heroes were working together. Eventually the movement evolves, but it will be in spurts. The other big issue is reliability, which is what the amp companies are improving, even if they are making "copies," which are slowly getting tweaked and morphed. Even if we are seeing new versions of old stuff, the good ones are improvements, adapted for modern application. Digital is to amps as diet is to regular soda: close enough for many but it's not the real thing, and tasting the real thing reminds you of that whenever you taste it.

[@fiddlefolk]

Thanks guys and especially Tim for sharing! The biggest take away from Tim for me about session work is working on the chorus first! It really changed my approach because I would start at the first verse building and then get to the chorus and I had over built to that point and no where to go! It is so much easier to build the pay off and then back down versus the other way around! I know it is common sense to do that but when you play live then you are used to start at the beginning and not jump around. Thanks !

[@johnnyblitzkrieg8985]

I'm from Finlanld but once, 10 years ago ago I almost got arrested in la when wanted stoled wee back

[@KE8UYV]

Just happened to watch this old episode... I actually have worked many shows at Harpos, mostly under Ruzvelt's ownership. Got to work the Phil Anselmo show where they played Pantera songs, and got to meet him.

[@WutipongWongsakuldej]

greetings from Thailand :)

[@greatvanzini]

Learned a lot tonight. So Naylor Eng. was originally Joe from Reverend?

[@sabrinagirola4776]

Buongiorno e Buon lavoro sono iscritta ♥️

[@mpesta]

Dude just stole a guitar and escaped out of the door right behind Dave. You have it all on video! 😂😂😂

[@3score10]

Awesomeness x20!

[@bro7269]

@2:00:00. I love it. World class session guitar player can’t find a pick in his own home studio!

[@Robstafarian]

I just used archive,org to review the Phil McKnight/Wampler fracas, and I find it pathetic that people complained about the language used in the blog post. If you are old enough to understand international distribution and surface-mount electronic components, then you are old enough to survive the word “bullshit.”

[@CrazyLG72]

Did Tim play on the Kiss Unmasked album? There have been rumors that he played on the song Shandi and maybe other tunes

[@88Gibson1]

Look I own 4 Gibson guitars and they are all great guitars Friedman of course has to bag on them because he is wanting to sell his guitars. Mine are 1988, 1989, 2012 all Les Pauls and my 2018 Gibson Explorer is excellent. Gibson has listened to their base and have returned to the classics. They will thrive they have adapted and the will still be there.

[@tone-talk]

88Gibson1 Thank you for your comment. At the time of this interview, Gibson still had lost their way, wasn’t at NAMM and Henry was at the helm. Seeing them this year, they are back and back with a focused vengeance. Kramer was a pleasant surprise and the Gibson models shown this year were gorgeous. Long live Gibson. We love them too.

[@warbirdfotos]

Best term I'd ever heard describing NAMM - "NAMM Breath"

[@whatarefriends4]

Did you play the leads on Master Of Puppets? How much of the recorded music we hear is studio musicians?

[@Spidouz]

1:25:45 You only have to go back to your initial statement: All we need is s Blackface, a Vox, a Plexi and a high-gain... why would you want more amps anyway since most of the new ones are still just a reissues or variant of those anyway??! That's why tube amps builders will become a niche market in a long run... they haven't innovate much since the '60s, and keep doing over and over the same amps... with all models already on the market, there's more than enough to model from already...

[@tonykennedy8483]

I agree, but people do like their own flavours of a Blackface, Plexi etc, so it's nice to have the option

[@Spidouz]

Tony Kennedy but all flavors already exist with all amps ever built from the early time, up to today. So, saying there would be no amps to model is a bad argument to me, because if (and that's a big IF) a modeler would already model/profile/reproduce accurately all Amps ever produce to this day, it would already be more than anyone would ever need in his/her lifetime. The problem is not about having enough model, but to reproduce them accurately. All new amps we see today don't bring new flavors/tones... they bring it in different shapes, with different options, different combinations, different price ranges and quality, etc... but they don't create new flavors / tones... it's always "another variant" of something that already exist. If you play with gain, EQ and compression, you can very often get what you need. As said, we just have to go back to 1:25:45 and both Dave and Tim also say we can "get away" with just 4 main Amps. So now imagine you would have 40 or even 400? You would already have all different nuances from each of the main 4. Fractal already have 220+ Amp models, Kemper has thousands of profiles... if absolutely no more tube amps would ever be built starting today, they would already have plenty to work with... not counting the hundreds (thousand?) of other amps that already exist and they could still clone/copy. That's why I think this not a good argument for tube amp builders. If amp builders would start innovating and would actually bring something new instead of doing over and over the same thing from the '50s/'60s... then the argument would maybe have some chance. But they don't... All they're doing right now, is only to catch up with what digital have been already proposing for years: being able to play at low volume, have a Direct Out for FOH or for direct recording at home, midi integration, recall system to have multiple settings presets, smaller and more portable version, more onboard effects, more amp topologies to switch from, etc... I can't think to any "new feature" that's been introduced in new tube amps that couldn't be done already by digital Modelers, or didn't even already exist on older tube amps 20 or 30 years ago. If you know something, I'd love to hear, because I searched and found nothing so far... Building a new Amp that would give you a good Princeton of Bassman sound, or a good JTM or good Plexi sound... is not a way to bring new flavor/tone. It's just recreating the existing ones. And that's why I think Amp builders will slowly lose against digital and become a niche market. The only main thing is that tube amps still do sound and feel right, and digital isn't 100% there; but it's pretty damn close and closer every year now since digital progress on an exponential curve. We can already get fooled on a record now. Most non-guitarist or engineers will also get fooled in a concert... it's just a matter of time for the sound to be even closer to fool everyone in any situation. And it's only because of the nature of technology and human biology. This is not some kind of personal preferences. I love tube amps, and I buy them... but I also mainly buy them because I know their time is counted and they will become collectibles since in a near future they will mainly be on a niche market for passionate people and hipsters (That will be ready to pay high prices to get them). So yeah it's definitely a good time to invest in tube amps... but it's mainly because digital is slowly becoming mainstream. Between the Katana, Cube, Kemper, Helix, Fractal, Bias, etc... digital is slowly more and more "accepted"... even in pedals with Strymon, H9, new Boss, Source Audio, etc...it's just part of the technology evolution. The sad part is that it wouldn't have to be that way and could be different if amp builders would start embracing digital technology instead to try to resist it... but hey, what do I know?! That's just my 2 cents, to each his own, YMMV.

[@ThemFuzzyMonsters]

There are only so many ways to make square waves before they all sound the same ...

[@rferguson3]

​@Spidouz That was more like w5 dollars worth. Jesus, longest comment I've ever seen

[@rorshakks]

What's with the thumbnail of Tim with a white Gibson ES model guitar? I don't see that in the video.

[@dananthony6258]

How do i make my fender blues jr sound the most like a Marshall ?

[@ryanreeves3915]

The limo driver story LOL..

[@coreybrown4920]

Had to listen to that whole Bon Jovi Christmas song to find it was an outro solo. Worth it though

[@JJDPROMEDIAPRODUCTION]

Hey guys. Can you time mark where the main question is: Real Amps or Modelers? Thanks

[@JJDPROMEDIAPRODUCTION]

Although I play Fractal, the BE OD pedal is on every board I have..

[@fleadoggreen9062]

What’s a BE ??

[@johnnyblitzkrieg8985]

I have one, what was the band ?

[@davelowets]

Hands down.... REAL amps all the way for me.

[@Dejoblue]

1:22:40 Interesting conversation; while having a Fractal AX8 box in the background in the bottom left! LOL! i know, I know, dave will build whatever you want, just humorous and sad how pervasive it all is nowadays ;/

[@Dejoblue]

2:56:15 Jackson Roswell Rhoads V www.frettedamericana.com/sites/default/files/01575_front.jpg Fender should send them a cease and desist letter for the shape.

[@joeyvanostrand3655]

I watched a Stew Mac video where Dan Erliwine lovingly painted and sealed a Tele body. I'm not a fan of Teles but he did a great job on it. After drying, he takes the finished body outside in his driveway and proceeds to beat the ever loving shit out of it against a well placed paver stone. Like a gorilla with a boulder. "That'll be $500 please!!" GTFOOH......

[@jasonbone5121]

Why did the musician cross the road? He didn't, he went for an 80 mile ride instead!

[@johntomme8250]

I don't own anything by Friedman. But I am gonna buy something just because I like him on these videos. Tim Pierce has already made me buy stuff.

[@chrislestermusic]

Well, here is the problem with the “Just wear it naturally “ argument about aging. The old Fenders used the least amount of finish and paint as possible compared to the 100 coats they do now. So good luck wearing through the new coats naturally. The wood practically becomes irrelevant because of how much coat is used on it. Obviously that doesn’t apply to all guitars but I do agree with the less is more theory. Oh, and Cairo Knife Fight rocks!

[@tone-talk]

Chris Lester try the new Friedman guitars. Made with real nitro and thin finishes

[@chrislestermusic]

I will when I get the chance. They look and sound great in the videos. Plus between Rappoport, Shawn Tubbs and all the great players demoing them it’s a hard sell. Ha!

[@MrWolf5150]

Did Tim ever get a Friedman guitar ?

[@tone-talk]

Not sure but I'll ask.

[@tone-talk]

MrWolf5150 no Tim has not gotten a Friedman guitar

[@MrKjohnson123]

JCM 800 - Kerry King asked Marshall when they came to him to do a signature amp,"This one is my favorite,I want to know exactly why." After Marshall reverse engineered it,they told him that every single part was 100% on spec. Marshall's window at the time of that amp was 10-15% on each component.

[@fleadoggreen9062]

What does that mean?

[@tem_anu]

Flonase. Stops drainage. B12 gers energy back

[@Yupppi]

It sounds concerning that majority of the work today, in music business or elsewhere, is about something secondary and not the actual work.

[@johnnyblitzkrieg8985]

i love fuzzes but every fuzz needs some push - Iam fuzz lver lover , but the the ting is is to put rat Rat before Blue Box neeeds one after too Big fuzz

[@vhollund]

Salvador Dali didn't sleep

[@fiddlefolk]

One last thing, mucho respect to Tim, Dan Huff, Dean Parks, etc.....you guys are heroes to all of us and thank you so much for sharing your secrets, talents, gear stuff....etc...To all of us you are super human but it is awesome to listen to you and see that you are just like us...Real people! I love Don Henley as a fellow Texan, and his music, but I can't stand that egocentric asshole or the late Glen Frey! Don Felder was just as important to their success as their singing...So was Randy Meisner, so was Joe Walsh, so was Timothy B Schmidt, and so was Bernie Leadon! When your name is the Eagles then it is a amalgam of the group! Sorry! That's how I feel about it!

[@diegorhoenisch62]

Until I had met people who had worked with Don Henley, I had great respect for his talent. After those stories, I would not want to interact with him under any circumstances. More generally, I've worked with famous people who were wonderful and others who weren't. Cheers

[@johnnyblitzkrieg8985]

Its od to muff that maks the guiter to sing

[@19581998]

Kinda funny to watch this five years later and the effect of the plandemic on guitars sales-Gibson, Fender, Martin, etc

[@AllenBarclayAllen]

One thing I learned , stay with the click and move up and down within the click . As a piano musitions 2:37:51 That's what makes music . Not Lawrence welk ..! And not Lawrence welk not worth listening to ..!

[@TheDistortionPrinciple]

Bad flu? Dave started Rona!!!!!

[@Neuri]

True songwriters have zero thought of finance whilst creating. That other stuff is called pop.