this harmony in Bach is INSANE 😲 | Evan Shinners

Evan Shinners shares his discoveries around a particularly surprising chord in Bach's Chromatic Fantasy and Fugue, BWV 903.
Check out Evan's podcast WTF Bach: wtfbach.substack.com/ and on Instagram: @wtfbach
Watch Shinners teach Bach and more on Tonebase! app.tonebase.co/piano/library...
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[@wilhelmbeck8498]

Bach, during his time-travels, must have snuffed that chord from Bill Evans

[@cmusic2365]

I would love to like this comment, but I would feel bad to change the like-counter from 69

[@philipmateo3816]

Or bill evans got it from Bach during that same trip

[@leomilani_gtr]

And Bill snuffed it from Debussy, I guess...

[@jaikee9477]

Brahms wasn't kidding when he said "Study Bach! There you'll find literally EVERYTHING!"

[@HBSuccess]

😂😂LOL😂😂 touchè

[@herbertbeiderbecke]

it's sounds like something from a modern composer. That's why Bach was an absolute genius.

[@BluesDivinity]

By modern do you mean classical? Most modern composers don’t stray too much further out from the pentatonics

[@nezkeys79]

Well the same could be said of Debussy since his music is littered with chords found in modern jazz music

[@Quim141]

Bach and Debussy music is sepparated like 150 years so...

[@nezkeys79]

@@Quim141 what about folk songs that sound like they were influenced by greensleeves lol

[@leomilani_gtr]

Proto-impressionism!

[@ratboygenius]

The problem is solved when you consider Bach didn't call them "chords". They are intervals above a bass that are moving horizontally and resolving by step. So many Bach pieces can sound like they have "wrong" notes if you stop in the wrong place.

[@JulioLeonFandinho]

the lost art of counterpoint

[@guitarplayerfactorychannel]

Interesting. They didn't use the word 'chords'? The triads and added tones were obviously in use. Did they have a different name ?

[@7riXter]

@@guitarplayerfactorychannel You don’t need to describe „chords“ or using another word for it when every „voice“ has it’s own movement/tension/line. The example is clearly a point in a piece where a resolution is approached. Anyway… of cause there also were „chords“ back then.

[@dead_yellow]

Hi ratboygenius ily❤

[@MaggaraMarine]

While I generally agree with this, the chord in question is really weird, even when you take the context into account - not something you typically find from Bach's music. I think the most plausible explanation is that the copyists made a typo. They probably missed some accidentals (E natural). The C in the middle is quite strange too, when you combine it with the Db on top. Typically this kind of weird harmonies are simply the result of suspensions, but that's not what's going on here. BTW, this is not just a random isolated harmony from a more polyphonic context - this is from a section that is very "chordal".

[@mr.rul0005]

My boy Johan was laying some Proto-Jazz back in the 1700's 😎

[@MaxIsBackInTown]

lol definitely not

[@elias7748]

@@MaxIsBackInTownit kind of is. Its Almis like Bach improvised

[@rientsdijkstra4266]

@@elias7748 He did. People like Bach and Mozart where GREAT improvisors!

[@davidtrevino8202]

No

[@ricsouza5011]

sounds like debussy tbh

[@matheusbenini9707]

I always find funny how classical pianists say "this chord is a monstruosity" and them you hear and yeah it's a chord with dissonance but they say it like it's some sound an elder god could only produce and it's C9

[@recel503]

Its because this music is deep and spiritual

[@marni3155]

well it’s about context! in the baroque era (as far as I know) the harmonies weren’t typically like that, so this chord would be strange. But if like.. Debussy wrote it, no one would bat an eye

[@FreeBrunoPowroznik]

C9 is dissonant? 😂

[@procyon6445]

@@recel503oh please

[@OdaKa]

​@@FreeBrunoPowroznikyes,

[@tunabomber111]

Chromatic Fantasia and Fugue in D minor BWV 903

[@Kazarijyanainoyonamidawa]

Thank you

[@HuggumsMcgehee]

Thanks so much

[@TNTErick]

thank you kind sir

[@TiagoCavalcanti-ji6hu]

Exactly! I was able to recognize the excerpt, and that's my fav piano piece. Never saw a 'mistake' there; rather, as you say, it has some special weight for sure, but this piece is the trickiest one I've seen (I'm no pianist, I play the guitar, but I study on the piano). Cheers!

[@stephenvanwijk9669]

Thank you.

[@neirinski]

“Oohh that sounds expensive” P. McCartney

[@TNTErick]

"Oohhh spicy!" Adam Neely

[@117iwhbyd7]

Nuno's great. didn't expect to find a fan here. lol

[@EyeLean5280]

Hearing that chord in isolation, it sounds very mid-20th century postwar era, particularly the compositions of Fred Rogers (yes, Mr. Rogers from TV).

[@Aleksandr_Skrjabin]

No way Mr. Rogers also had a composition carreer! I tought playing piano only.

[@WBensburg]

@@Aleksandr_Skrjabin Nearly every song you hear from his 'Neighborhood' was written by him.

[@Aleksandr_Skrjabin]

@@WBensburg I knew he was a pianist, which almost all pianist compose music, how stupid of me as musician and composer to not saw that.

[@WBensburg]

@@Aleksandr_Skrjabin Not at all!! Very few know of Mr. Rogers's background in music. He was a music major at Rollins College in Central Florida.

[@Aleksandr_Skrjabin]

@@WBensburg Understandble, i have a bad memory so i couldve forgotten, i always focus on the background music wherever i am. I havent heard of Mr. Rogers in a long time.

[@blender_wiki]

I did my thesis in Musicology around Bach Harmony and more you go deep in the rabbit hole more you are amazed by the Bach Genius.

[@JackSimonot]

That sounds incredible! would you be willing to pass on some sources you read that you found interesting?

[@elizabethscott7660]

it's why Bach is truly my favourite composer

[@ach2lieber]

Bach's dissonant chords are like jewels, especially in the toccatas and partitas. I play some of them over and over.

[@H4RLM]

That chord is gorgeous

[@LeVezz]

It's because of voice leading , you can't say it's weird when you don't see the motions of the 4-5 voices that are before that chord. Oftentime (always) , his "added notes" come from the last chord and are resolved in the next . It could be because of a chromatic upscent or descent also.

[@thebenevolentsun6575]

He's not saying it's a "bad" chord he's saying it's a bizarre chord to find in a baroque piece.

[@stefanmirica6485]

@@thebenevolentsun6575 the comment is not saying it's an issue of chords, it's saying it's an issue of chromaticism or passing notes.

[@thebenevolentsun6575]

@@stefanmirica6485 yes but the harmony itself is still bizarre to find in a baroque piece.

[@slatebook2384]

@@thebenevolentsun6575 Bach does "choral", it's Counterpoint not Harmony (classical era). You are supposed to hear each voice not to think them as chords. As a result, if you play it as chords, you'll be amazed by the complexity of the "Harmony", still despite the inspiration each voice follows a precise and coded path, rules are numerous in Counterpoint.

[@thebenevolentsun6575]

@@slatebook2384 It's still strange to find in a baroque piece though.

[@kitstr]

Sounds wonderful.

[@r0d3r1cvs]

That's actually "La Quinte Superflue", an augmented 5th over the "III grade" in the minor scale. You can find it in Dandrieu's Teatrise, or in Couperin preludes and a bunch of music from the same time 👍

[@vayasaberlo8]

Bach was so ahead of his time🎉

[@nathanaelhahn4795]

You know he's sophisticated because he says "baCHXHC"

[@someonespecial1329]

Bach was jazzy af

[@LeoDurman11]

I was expecting a really dissonant chord when he said that but then he played it and I was like I listen to too much jazz

[@pjbpiano]

@@LeoDurman11, it is only dissonant for him because he has made certain associations.

[@donaldaxel]

It is an E flat minor with added six - Ebm6 - with the third in the bass, so - Ebm6/Gb - and the top voice has a D flat, the seventh of Eb minor which advances stepwise to the seventh of the following F dominant seven chord; in normal notation Ebm6/gb - F7 which is a Phrygian cadence. The sharpness comes from the C clashing with the top voice D flat; that is the Ebm 6th clashing with the Ebm 7th above. However, an Ebm6 - F7 is a common Phrygian cadence.

[@johnslater8998]

Why Eb? He doesn’t give the key signature, so I guess you know the piece? I assumed the E was natural, making it just a C7 flat 9.

[@willmorris8198]

​I think the chord is a C half-diminished b9 in second inversion. The notes from bottom to top are Gb, Bb, C, Eb, Db (I excluded the doubled Bb). If you stack those in root position from C you get C, Eb, Gb, Bb, Db. This is a half diminished chord with an added b9th. Of course the Gb is in the bass which makes it a second inversion. I don't think the root is Eb because that would make C a non chord tone. I think all the written notes are chord tones since it's written as a blocked chord. But honestly I don't think Bach really cared about how the chord would be labeled, as much as he did about counterpoint and the intervals in between each note. ​@@johnslater8998 It's Eb because the Eb from the previous chord carries over because they're in the same measure. Same with the Gb.

[@donaldaxel]

@@willmorris8198 :: Yes, your label and what Bach cared about, yes, agree! :) There is a recording (Trevor Pinnock, harpsichord) where the player makes the arpeggios very expressive. That, I think, is the way to go. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXfRkK2MhNF3d9E I was wrong, though, about the added notes, Pinnock plays pretty much note for note.

[@willmorris8198]

@@donaldaxel Yeah, Evan in this video even added a passing tone C at the top of the chord. Or maybe, since we have deduced that it is not only a chord tone but the root, it is not a passing tone. It sure sounds like one though lol.

[@johnslater8998]

@@willmorris8198 - Ah yes of course. Thanks

[@catkeys6911]

It might look crazy on paper and when you're trying to play it, but when you hear it, it makes perfect sense.

[@buddyfm7001]

Genuinely beautiful

[@tsizzle4shiz]

Bach rules

[@freemoney3919]

Bach was very dense in his harmonies, and many people interpret it differently. That's nearly what makes his music so great

[@dxdtee]

Whoa...I went to high school with Evan. He was and is so talented! He even sold me a burned CD of his recordings back then. Mind blown. So happy to see him thriving! 🤯🙌

[@indioduran4535]

John Mulaney is a great musician

[@groezy]

doesn't look too much like mulaney to me, but his vocal mannerisms sound so much like him

[@tambetott626]

Doctor Who (David Tenant)

[@Clarity-808]

Sounds EXACTLY like him! Brilliant 😂

[@ExAnimoPortugal]

Bach pushed the boundaries of harmony. 300 years ago.

[@longlifetometal1995]

Ayyyy priorizing melodic lines over harmonic stability leads sometimes to spicy chords that aren't meant to be considered as structural chords in the sense of the term used here but standard voice leading in the late-Baroque period. Who would've thought.

[@briansadler5225]

Bach was probably trolling music theorists in the future

[@TheIvyLens]

These are key strokes that emulate human emotion. It’s funny how it trips them up when they can’t reconcile technique with the notes lol. Humans created this. For other humans. Don’t forget hahahaha

[@user-eb9me1ie7z]

It's beautiful

[@michaelsmith697]

Bach is an extremely special composer. Playing his music still gives me joy. I’m almost 70 and played him first at age 17. His music is so satisfying to play. I love his tierce de picardis! ( piece in a minor key which ends in its major key - gives an uplifting to the heavens feeling)

[@bethhall-ee2ip]

A fine example of the genius of Bach. So interesting as, in isolation, it has the quality of a modern modern jazz voicing...Very cool !

[@casey7411]

What's the piece?

[@EriRosi]

He uses that chord in quite a few of his pieces! It's really beautiful. Gives me the feeling of a day at the beach ending because it's getting cold now the sun is below the horizon.

[@jaylenterry278]

His speaking voice and articulation is very reminiscent of the late, great, genius Glenn Gould. I love it!

[@awakenwithoutcoffee]

beautiful chord from I believe the Chromatic fantasy ? I do like to add the thought that Bach loved the "space" in between the notes , the counterpoint allowed him the utmost expression possible. It is why I personally love Baroque and Classical music so much, even moreso than the romantic greats.

[@leomilani_gtr]

I heard the fantasy and it sounds nothing like it. I need to know what is this piece.

[@awakenwithoutcoffee]

@@leomilani_gtr it is the Chromatic Fantasy and Fugue from J.S. Bach. Remarkable piece!

[@thelostartofcounterpoint8648]

It is indeed "strange" for this era, but it is less strange and more understandable if we read the music horizontally/contrapuntally. These chords must been seen as multiple part harmony, where each note comes from a previous one and goes to the next one. The concept of a chord is here just a "frozen" moment in the contrapuntal texture. Like one filmshot. It can create strange dissonances if we analyze them just vertically. Bach thinks horizontally in different layers. The "chords" are snapshots. Check my channel if you're interested in voice leading and counterpoint!

[@fabz1509]

Absolutely love this chord. Early inceptions of rebirth of the coolness.

[@robertgift]

Love the d Chromatic Fantasy and Fugue BWV903

[@jonathonaltmann4493]

It kind of sounds like a C7b9, the passage kind of sets up this C diminished thing but then you hear this C7b9 chord which maybe indicates that Bach may have been utilising the two modes of the diminished scale. Truly far of his time.

[@davidvernon3119]

You don’t usually think of the classical composers having the harmonic sophistication of the modern jazz guys, but bach was laying down a spicy jazz chord there!

[@tj3482]

All those jazz composers got h Their harmonic ideas from the impressionists and modernists

[@althealligator1467]

They'd never do this in Jazz, though, they pretty much always do the exact same extensions, never this one though.

[@vadim4252]

​@@althealligator1467You are not serious right?

[@althealligator1467]

@@vadim4252 _You_ are not serious, right? Name me one occasion in Jazz where you have a m7 chord over its major 6th. It's like a cardinal sin in Jazz to put the perfect 4th (usually they call it an 11th though) over a major chord, so if it's a major chord like a dominant or maj7, you'd put the #4 or #11 to avoid the minor 2nd / minor 9th between the major 3rd and the perfect 4th. You'd get that same dissonance with a major 6th in the bass of a m7 chord, so you'll never see that. You have plenty of counter examples in Pop music, but in Jazz it's pretty much always ii-V-I galore and b9, #11, b13, and no 5th over a dominant chord. Same extensions. Always.

[@Distractionalist]

@@althealligator1467 Tell me you took one jazz theory course in college without actually telling me.

[@ronl7131]

Goosebump producing genius

[@simonshusse]

Remember that Bach improvised much of what is written down. He didn’t overthink this, it probably came to him during a session. Amazing.

[@spectralflapjack]

Every now again, Bach threw in harmonic concepts hundreds of years ahead of their time. His understanding of harmony was absurd.

[@emanuelecicchino7256]

Bach , der Genie.

[@swim3936]

Gender is weird in German. “Genie” is neuter, so even though Bach is masculine, we’d still use the neuter article and say “Bach das Genie” rather than “Bach der Genie”.

[@lenni_3812]

Bach, der Geniale

[@user-ck6ly4st3v]

Beautiful transcendent music

[@JorgeLopez-fu9lb]

How different would this sound on a keyboard NOT tuned to equal temperament?

[@Shamanator]

There are dozens and dozens of different tuning schemes, so each one would sound different. Also, noone knows how Bach tuned his keyboards to his own version of equal temperament.

[@WeedMIC]

​@@Shamanatoractually bach wrote his temperaments down and would take about 8 mins to tune the instrument to those temperaments. This marking was decyphered by Lehman very recently.

[@xourbo8734]

Not that different.

[@abz124816]

Bach was a Jazz musician ahead of his time.

[@harleyjo4875]

When Bach fucks with jazz but it’s before jazz.

[@jseligmann]

The Fantasies are approaching the mystical in their searching and ruminating. Leaning toward the surrealistic...

[@marklomnas6531]

Bach knew very well what he was doing.

[@e.d.1642]

Reminds of that passage in a Chopin Nocturne where I heard and saw three different versions of a particular chromaticism

[@jamespatient7438]

What’s it called? Beautiful playing☺️

[@jakebaker4066]

I love this guy and the words he chooses. And most of all his beautiful playing

[@johnwoods6539]

love Back!!!!... he was so so brilliant, and genius..

[@emefcue]

Could someone tell me what bach this piece is please?

[@evanrossman2804]

sing us a song you're the piano man.

[@trevormichaelmcgowan]

Genius

[@tabby7189]

One suspension, enormous chaos

[@PepperWilliamsMusicBlend]

BACH was 1000 years ❤❤❤ahead of his time❤❤❤

[@commontater8630]

Bach died 274 years ago so that means another 776 years before we catch up with him!

[@GT19873]

Use more emojis

[@da33smith37]

Name of the piece, please?

[@MarshallArtz007]

Chromatic Fantasia and Fugue BWV 903

[@theo2460]

@@MarshallArtz007thanks!

[@TheCAPTAINDESTROYER]

Great video thanks. It’s heartening to know that there are still interesting and intelligent videos on KZbin nowadays

[@LacoSinfonia]

When played in sequence rather than as a chord, it’s like a score from a film about space exploration. Bach was literally centuries ahead of his time.

[@rafaycheema7643]

Whats the name of this piece?

[@cadenlovelace5819]

It sounds a C7 flat 9 over G, a great sound overall

[@isaacbeen2087]

G flat! and there's no E natural, it's also flat!

[@suryanima_chandranima]

I wasn't expecting something so floaty and a lovely sounding. Sounds curious, looking around... "searching" is right on.

[@NormalGayBro]

Lovely little chord there

[@gillespage5489]

Is your piano tuned to the era's standard?

[@TiagoCavalcanti-ji6hu]

fair point

[@davidlouis2354]

Don't judge a chord in isolation.

[@g_way]

By Fall Out Boy

[@tianlandai]

It’s so beautiful because there’s so much to resolve

[@giovi.0]

It is gorgeous, it reminds me of certain contemporary flamenco pieces, the most daring, outside ones like the compositions of Chicuelo. Also I hear the great Scarlatti.

[@giuliobaldi6166]

What composition is this?

[@Me-uv6kc]

BWV 903 it's the fantasy part of chromatic fantasy and fugue

[@markharder3676]

According to Rick Beato (YT channel), Bach employed a chord, in the Well Tempered Clavier I think, that wasn't used by any other composer until the 20th C. The guy was channeling the future or something equally bizarre. And he could improvise this kind of stuff on the spot! Multiple 3-voice (or more) fugues based on a subject his host had just showed him. The host was Frederick the Great. Bach went home and wrote out the pieces plus some more and sent the result to the Emperor. Another eerie Bach phenomenon is that some listeners, myself included, often sense that the old master is present when they listen to his stuff. He speaks to me in ways no other composer can, odd chords included.

[@markharder3676]

I too have felt his ghost hovering by my right shoulder, listening to his own music with me. Gotta admit that hearing of the same phenomenon from other Bach addicts is a tad creepy. You do realize there are more than the 2 of us, don't you? Doesn't happen with any other composer, just J.S. Too bad I can't play an instrument. Do you?

[@morrisgreg2176]

That face when you played the chord after saying "it sounds like Bach didn't know what he was hearing here"

[@edelahaye]

Telonious Monk have said that Bach was one of his greatest source of inspiration.

[@novakingood3788]

So now we know who really invented jazz.

[@Mili.Amadeus]

Name of the piece?

[@leoribic1691]

It's one of the arpeggi from the Chromatic Fantasy :) I play that piece and like it a lot! Besides the scale-runs it's a pretty easy piece to learn, and has a really clever descending chromatic line in the end sequence, all the way to the last D Major chord!

[@Mili.Amadeus]

Thanks!

[@michaelsmith697]

I’m playing the prelude in B flat minor book1 now. It’s incredible!!

[@キラキラくりくり頭]

I definitely understood all of that.

[@leomilani_gtr]

Tell us the piece!!!!!

[@PedroCristian]

Bwv 903 chromatic fantaisie

[@leonardodelyrarodrigues3752]

Jazz started with Bach, then Chopin, and then it was born in the 19th/20th century.

[@byron8159]

Classic pianist hears a jazz chord for the first time

[@billysuter]

Bach was a monster

[@treypdx]

Which piece is this?

[@timothyhoft]

Chromatic Fantasy and Fugue

[@treypdx]

@@timothyhoft thank you!

[@beastasfiist]

isn't this a re-upload?

[@OrpheoCT]

They had uploaded a version where the score didn’t match his playing at that precise chord lol

[@jamesmacaulay564]

Yes and despite that glaring and amusing lack of effort it’s still more or less viral. KZbin music is a depressing place.

[@davidbrandt6925]

a master composer

[@paxwallace8324]

Every jazz pianist "Gee I play that chord every gig"

[@boogiecats]

It's a cool cluster chord. If you want to hear jazzy things in popular music listen to Steely Dan.

[@guitarplayerfactorychannel]

What is this piece?

[@brickshotted]

Sounds perfect to me

[@jens2994]

I really liked that chord even out of context 😅

[@codythedoggo7671]

Jazzy sounding

[@barrilitomusic]

Name of the chord?

[@michaelklein9276]

Id call it a C7b9/G

[@willmorris8198]

​@@michaelklein9276 don't forget about the Eb and Gb carried over from the previous chord which is in the same measure. It's Cm7b5b9/Gb (or in classical terms C half diminished b9 in second inversion)

[@user-bj9st5zj9h]

I can't stop watching this!

[@arismakaronas4469]

and just like that, impressionism was created!

[@seacoast4950]

Your playing piano is lovely 😍

[@qiaoerye]

This is beautiful

[@ChopinIsMyBestFriend]

Robert Hill’s recording of that B Minor prelude is super good.

[@JerryEboy69]

I’m not sure if this is applicable to this specific piece, but I always read the manuscript. I spend time finding them to refine my playing

[@cristianogiuriato2621]

amazing!!!!!

[@hoshmoggen1746]

Every one of those chords sounded crazy.