Is The Mesa JP-2c A Better Choice?

[@Roelend]

Whatever you changed about your A/V setup has really upgraded your videos, man!

[@TONEWARSgearshow]

@@Roelend thank you. I've been busy working on my set for the last week or so. I change my camera settings, my background and the lighting

[@jasonapmarshallful]

@@TONEWARSgearshow Looks sick!

[@hanovergreen4091]

Agreed. Great format. Competent player. Knows his tech. Keeps the words sparse. No “awesome” every 10 seconds. Down to earth. Somebody you would want to sit down with and talk for a few hours. Best Regards and Best Wishes!

[@gpi66]

The price is Gibson trying to cash in on nostalgia.

[@Uberboogie]

Not hard to figure it out.

[@rangle187]

bingo

[@masonkertson9774]

The much fairer price would be 2k.

@@masonkertson9774 The price is fine. Get a better job...

[@PrincessDaddy-s2s]

What? I mean what evidence do you have that Gibson of all brands would even know anything about cashing in on nostalgia let alone would try to take advantage of us like that?😅😂😂.

[@13strigoi69]

Gibson taking notes: increase price of JP2C by $1000!

[@matthewduncan9405]

I know right 😂 don’t give them ideas

[@donniejean]

Ha! “Who here takes notes? Anyone? You, with the broom, write this down…”

[@ScottGailor]

The JP is the better amp for the money. The 2C+ is about nostalgia

[@realtruenorth]

Original iiC+ sounds better, but not worth the price that they command, not to me. I mean, well over 10 grand people are paying for those. Not sure about the reissue though.

[@willchug]

An original 2C+ next to another original 2C+ can sound completely different. The tone can sometimes be in the tolerance. 🤘

[@JohnWiku]

​@@willchug Right on! Pots are +/- 20%, and so are most capacitors, most parts have +/- 5 or 10% tolerances. No two amps will sound exactly the same, unless you blueprint every component to spec, but that will cost you a lot of money on labor and extra parts (nobody will ever do this, unless there's a reason to do so).

[@SHREDTILLDEAD]

Not necessarily. When you buy newer mesa designs you're paying in time and cost for the serviceable future of that amp. The old designs are much easier to repair.

[@donniejean]

@@SHREDTILLDEADI agree, but technicians are aging too. So the guys that grew up working on the originals, won’t be around forever :/ Out with the old, in with the new… You used to be able to change a car battery without having to take the trunk off and front right tire. Along with the radio and “drive it yourself” system which does not stand for DIY 😂

[@benh1467]

I've got both the JP2C and the IIC+ reissue, and I feel like they don't sound very similar to each other. They both do the Mark thing, but the JP2C sounds a lot more modern. Might be more of a feel thing, but I'm definitely hearing a difference in the two.

[@laffta6727]

put up a vid on ur channel-thx

[@AuntAlnico4]

😂 you are the targeted Gibson/Mesa customer.

[@jonfai]

Blues lawyer?! Is it you?!? lol jk blues doctor here… :)

[@benh1467]

lol awesome 😂

[@petruccirocks02]

The JP2C is based on an HRG C+ (100/60 watts) whereas the C+ Reissue is a DRG (SimulClass 75/25 watts). They should sound different.

[@swampscott2670]

The problem with the 2c+ was always that you really needed two the way most people have been using them - at least outside the studio. That’s what the Mark IV was for - which in my book is and always was the better amp.

[@DjackTheDjurst]

Is it worth it? *Doesn't play the other amp in question AND plays with too much gain*

[@mykuntstynx9463]

He can play an arpeggio over and over and over, bro. That's all the experience and expertise anyone needs here anymore.

[@3000KTM]

in new zealand a mark 7 is $7300 , a jp2c is $9000 , we get fkd in the butt in my country with prices

[@manuelaguilar8060]

That is brutal.

[@3000KTM]

@ it sure is , it would be almost the equivalent of paying 9 grand in the US , there’s currency conversion of course but what you buy for a dollar there - say a can of coke is the same here

[@bluesful]

Similar here in Australia mate. It sucks.

[@JimsMusicJourney]

I was thinking the same exact thing. Did you get a new camera or adjust the lighting. It looks a lot better.

[@PippPriss]

He got new lighting in the background and changed his camera settings so it how films at 60 fps instead of 24 fps like before. Looks really good.

[@drlove2112]

Gibson will see this and say, "My God, We aren't charging enough for our other Marks!"

[@MK-oz2lf]

Ola Englund was able to make the SYNERGY IICP module sound exactly the same as his own MARK IIC+ and it costs a fraction of the reissue. So what does that tell ya? nostalgia hype is just hype and people are blinded enough to buy into it.

[@tommanseau6277]

As Glenn Fricker says, the tone of the amp is in the circuit. It's not in the tubes, not in the marketing. The power amp section simply makes things louder with minimal coloration. That's why the Synergy platform with its individual preamps works. And the best part? Repair is dead simple - swap out a module.

[@SHREDTILLDEAD]

​The preamp tubes , and poweramp tubes are part of the circuit genius. The poweramp definitely colors your sound. It may not be as noticeable on audio tracks , but it's noticeable unless you're deaf or don't care. Everything in that signal chain including the pick affects your sound , its only a matter as to what extent and what you can subtract or add to equalize or enhance it. Will it transfer to producer's mediocre youtube productions, not likely or often.

[@tommanseau6277]

@@SHREDTILLDEAD Missed your coffee or something? I'm not attacking your precious tube amp. The Synergy is all tube. It's just that the power section isn't the be all, end all, it just makes things loader like a good power section should. You can swap from EL34 to 6L6 tubes, and it won't change the time of the amp. If you feel otherwise, record it while changing only 1 thing and let us hear. If you can prove a change in tone, we'll be all ears.

[@FastRedPonyCar]

Part of why the synergy worked in that video was it running into the Mesa power section. The IICP module is a killer deal and sounds awesome (I just got a review unit) but the power section and cab play a huge part in the sound and feel too.

[@lostinpa-dadenduro7555]

Bro the new lighting for your videos has significantly upped the level. Looks great.

[@RottenRotny]

Mo options Mo better People can't see past their nostalgia bias though

[@BradRocker]

Those points are certainly valid. Love your new camera for the shoots.

[@TONEWARSgearshow]

@@BradRocker thank you so much!

[@roland4ever22]

You bring up valid points😂.. Mark series is so fun. I love my mark iii black stripe. 🎉

[@derekdamager7928]

Loving your video quality

[@jasonapmarshallful]

Agreed completely! The new lights look awesome in the background.

[@SonicDriveStudio]

Love the new backdrop!

[@pauljackson2938]

The people buying the reissue are the same people who spend 3k on a 59 les paul reissue and bitch about your boost pedal.

[@jonfai]

6k^^

[@jb_50w78]

Hey Jarod! Hope you’re doing well!!! I immediately thought myself that I’m better off just staying with the JP2C. Basically the same sound and more practical features.

[@bengoldstein964]

I agree the JP sounds better with a boost.

[@billallengo]

That sounds excellent. My first time seeing this amp. I see the Bass is all the way down. Interesting!

[@Tomcat82]

That "Bass" knob there really ought to labeled "Mud" and it is the #1 reason why so many people feel these amps are difficult to dial in. In all Mark amps, the bass, mids, and treble controls are not a 3-band EQ; they're more like three separate mini boost pedals built-in to the amp. The vast majority of the EQing in all Mark amps is controlled by the 5-band GEQ slider knobs, not the bass, mids, and treble.

[@MrSixstringthing]

If you want “The sound” of the 80’s hands down the mark IIc+, if you want a more versatile all around amp it’s the jp2c. Hand wired Mark 2c+ and way larger transformers. Non hand wired smaller transformers in the jp2c. You get what you pay for.

[@Henysipper]

Woa did you change your lighting or camera cuz your video looks so much better. You might have to start wearing makeup here soon lol.

[@TONEWARSgearshow]

Thanks for noticing. Yes, I changed the lighting and the camera settings along with the background. I'm still doing some fine-tuning to everything but I'm really pleased with it all so far.

[@berndgroters2745]

Thanks Jarrod! That's exactly what I've thought! The price tag of the reissue IIc+ is absolutely ridiculous!

[@berndgroters2745]

Your JP-2C sounds killer btw!!! I „just“ have the Mark V, but man, I'm so happy with this amp! I'm runnin' it with a 2x12 Roadking-cab. I wish I had the chance to get a JP-2C, but I can't afford it… 😂🙈 Nice video as usual! 😊👍

[@TONEWARSgearshow]

Thanks for commenting. I really appreciate it. Hopefully, you'll get a chance to pick up a jp. They are so amazing.

[@blacklion401]

Great video. I’m a non boost pedal guy and I’ll take that up with anyone 😂. Sounds killer dude, enjoyed the video.

[@crumpetsandteaparty]

How does using an overdrive pedal compare to using the shred mode? What do you like about it better?

[@nickx1754]

The JP does sacrifice some flexibility in the gain staging by omitting some of the original's controls. (Not gain, gain staging control). It does offer far more features though. The JP is also far more friendly to live playing. Different strokes for different folks.

[@pip5528]

I agree that the JP-2C is more practical at the same price point but each can shape tone in ways the other can't. They each have different pull functions but there's also a fixed gain level on the JP-2C so you can't tweak the cascading gain stages and I believe pull treble and bright are set to on in the JP-2C, etc. What I think is more practical than the IIC+ reissue with the same tone shaping and then some is a III or even a IV which can typically be found for cheaper than the IIC+ reissue and especially an original IIC+ that's been priced to high heavens. I've even heard the argument that a IV is better value than a JP-2C for those who just want the base voicing across 3 channels rather than a library of sounds. The modern Marks simplify things in terms of gain controls but also give separate tone stacks per channel so everything's a trade-off. The IV sorta separated tone stacks but not as well as V and beyond.

[@laffta6727]

ola has done the comparison jp, vii and the og--in the end he agrees with u--I do look forward to your future vid to settle this gear question-thx so much-great job

[@BeautifulGuitars365]

The thing is you’re assuming they sound exactly the same which as others who now own both mentioned they do not. So for someone who wants the IIC+ sound and hasn’t been able to afford on up until now is willing to purchase it at this price point. Also keep and mind there was a lot of R&D that went into recreating the IIC+ so you’re paying for that too

[@JunkRacecars]

Can't defend the price of the 2c+ reissue as I think it should be $1k less, but the circuits of the V/VII/JP definitely aren't the same, even in their respective 2c+ modes. The OG 2c+ and the pre-V Marks have independent gain controls for the tonestack and lead, bright and fat switches (some are actually gain boosts and change the distortion), shift controls, etc. The JP2C also doesn't have simulclass which is a very important if you wanna drop EL34s in the outer slots and chase classic Metallica tone.

[@ValiRossi]

That thumbnail is priceless.

[@hanovergreen4091]

Hey Boss. Have you done a compare with the Neural DSP Petrucci Archetype to your amp? Looking forward to getting a Petrucci JP TONEX and a new IIC+ TONEX capture. If you have both will buy..gotta go look. If not, will buy when you get them up. Best Regards and Best Wishes!

[@TONEWARSgearshow]

Thank you very much. I really appreciate that. To your question, I have it compared them yet but I definitely am curious to see if there's a difference. Maybe sometime in the future, I'll carve out some time to do that comparison.

[@bontilley]

I have the JP2C and I honestly think it’s pound for pound top three amp on the market not only can you switch the wattage but has a fucking headphone jack also lol that’s a win for my wife. The reissue should be 800

[@danielhenry4614]

It would have to have a superior sound over my jp2c for me to even consider purchasing . I’m not sure I could switch from pristine cleans to great leads channel withouth turning a knob . I love my jp2c it’s probably my favorite even though I only play at home it’s the dream Mesa 2 eqs 2 leads what more could you want . I will get one of these on the used market to try out in a year or so . When someone is selling one for a great deal . Ps l love your content and channel bro

[@TONEWARSgearshow]

@@danielhenry4614 thank you so much!

[@manuelaguilar8060]

I came to meet the JP-2C, because it was at the moment, the closest thing to the IIC+, and on top of that, a signature model by one of the most respected lead guitarists in the world, I'm talking decades of experience. If I were to have nothing on my shelves, and I were a Mesa Boogie fan, I would probably start my journey with the IIC+ Reissue.

[@Bret_Sanor]

Buying a Mesa these days is a tough sell for me. There's virtually no techs willing to work on them because of how complicated they are in the circuitry. They will need work. A buddy had his MK V 35 transformer blow. Luckily for him, it was covered under warranty, but it had to be sent to Mesa and took a long time to get it back. They sound great, but it is a big investment and not easily repaired when they need work. To each their own.

[@realtruenorth]

That's why I like PTP wired amps over pcb, self serviceable.

[@blacklion401]

Very true dude.

[@Gmanrushfan]

I dunno… I have a certified tech within 100 miles. For other things, I’ve sent a chassis to Mesa all the way across the country (I’m in the South East) and the turn around time was less than 2 weeks… transformer blown because of a power generator electrical issue last year. I’ve been using and having my Mesas serviced for 20 years. They also answer questions and trouble shoot over the phone and email.

[@SHREDTILLDEAD]

​@@realtruenorthOh yeah who makes those? How many do you have. I'm not an amp tech and the longest repair I ever made on my old mark iii no stripe was like 30 minutes. The iic+ reissue layout looks fairly similar to the old designs. Nobody does ptp affordably anymore unless you're gonna tell us where. 😊

[@realtruenorth]

@@SHREDTILLDEAD I'm about to make my own, from Roseamp, it's a SLO clone, cost a little over a 1000 dollars I think, a bargain compared to an actual Soldano SLO. It's a kit you buy.

[@josephrusso7069]

Jared.....that lead tone was super sick! I sold my two Redseven The Dirt amps because they were just not bright and agressive enough. Would you recommend the JP2C or the Engl Special Edition FE? I hope I can get your opinion.

[@manuelaguilar8060]

If you're looking for brutal gain, you're into rectifier land and all those other ultra high gain amps.

[@crummy.]

The reason this exists alongside JP2C is because it has the drg simulclass transformer for people who want exact specs to metallica this is the amp for them. You're underestimating how serious metallica Tone fans are.

[@RubberMuffin]

I am one of those tone fans I admit lol but I’ll stick with my used mark v that does every bit of Metallica that I need it to and then more lol.

[@ericjones-y2q]

I think you're right and it surprised me that this amp was and is simulclass. I ordered that option on my mk3 and it made my lead tone sound like reeling in the years, or "main street" by Bob seeger. Maybe it works as a heavy rhythm tone but for lead, I thought it sucked.

[@crummy.]

@RubberMuffin yea sure it's an acceptable mark iic+ metallica tone, but there's a lot of stuff in Mark V that tone sucks compared to og iic+ or mark iv. If you want exact album tones, it won't do it.

[@nOpOrOpMoP]

@@crummy. the jp does it just fine. i'm 45 years old, I grew up on Metallica and it was my favorite band for many many years. A lot of the album tone that you're referring to also has to do with the type of microphones they were using and the speaker cabinets they were using which significantly changed the way an amplifier sounds especially recorded. if you're trying to get an exact tone from an album from any artist and you're relying solely on the amplifier to reproduce that then you will probably never get there anyways. my friend has a o.g mkii c+ And it gets close but it's not the album tone, And so does The jp. another thing that people are not considering here is that the standard mkii c+ It's not the same amplifier that metallica used. If you do your research you will come to find that they had a modified version of that amplifier that is basically unavailable to the public at all at this point. So you will never get Metallica by simply purchasing one of these amplifiers, you will first need their speaker cabinets And then you will need to find a modified version of that amplifier. Close enough is good enough for me because who the hell wants to sound identical to someone else? I'm not going to go out and spend almost $4000 on an amplifier just to sound like Metallica. I want versatility and the JP does that. Gibson is banking on the fact that most guitar players are stupid enough to believe that if they purchased the amplifier they're going to sound identical to someone not considering all of the variables. Then there are manufacturing tolerances which make each specimen play and feel slightly differently so realistically in order to sound exactly like Metallica you would need their amplifiers That they used on the album., You would need to figure out which version of which speakers they were using in which cabinet they were in and then figure out their microphone placement and microphone type. Sorry but that's way too much work just to play around with a Metallica tone for five minutes and more or less completely pointless. I personally believe for the 90% of us out here that would purchase that amplifier, not interested in sitting around and playing Metallica covers all day. realistically I feel like it's beginners that would try to emulate someone's tone that specifically and most of those people that just started their guitar journey are probably not going to go out and spend $4000 on an amplifier anyways either because they cannot afford it or because they do not know what the hell they are doing. so I find it kind of odd that anyone would market this amplifier to that audience.

[@SHREDTILLDEAD]

​@@crummy. You can get nearly exact for way cheaper. Nobody has a clue what they are doing these days, and like for master of puppets at least there is a lot of b.s. floating around.

[@chipchiperson679]

It’s all about the C plus legendary tones that they re-created for that price yet it doesn’t have the cascading percussion of the C+ but more modern attack

[@SHREDTILLDEAD]

B.s.

[@AuntAlnico4]

Yeah you are right but when are you are right you are right !

[@thestrummingcorner3322]

Good question! I heard the 2c+ have better low gain crunchy tone. Jp2c had better high gain so for people who are looking for low gain, the 2c+ could be better. I don't know if It is true ? A comparison of clean (without chorus), edge of breakup, crunch and high gain would be a nice comparison

[@Tomcat82]

I've never played or heard the IIC+ reissue in person so I have not formed an opinion on it yet. However, I do own an OG Mark IIC+ and a JP2C. The high gain channels between the two amps do NOT sound the same. And I don't mean the JP2C just has different ranges in its EQ controls or whatever; I mean I couldn't get one to sound like the other if you held a gun to my head. They really do sound that different. "But John Petrucci said...!" Yes, I know what John Petrucci said a decade ago in a Mesa ad a promoting an amp with his name on it. But I believe my own ears over John Petrucci, and I can confidently say from years of first hand experience owning many Mark amps that the JP2C has its own unique sound (and I personally consider it to be the Mark VI that never was). How are the high gain tones of the C+ and JP2C different? The OG C+ is brighter, more open, more present, more raw, and pushes harder. The JP2C is darker, more compressed, has more gain on tap, and it has a boxiness to it that is difficult to dial out. That boxiness is really the biggest difference from the OG; it's just always there. I'm not shitting on the JP2C here. It's a highly versatile, fantastic sounding amp, and the dual GEQ and shred mode are great features. I understand there's a lot of hype and nostalgia surrounding the C+, but it's very much justified by its incredible lead tone and criminally under-discussed clean sound. The C+'s fatal flaw is that it's essentially a single channel amp and I wish the C+ reissue had a control layout like the Mesa Quad preamp, but then I guess it wouldn't be a reissue and people would complain. Anyway, my point is that if the C+ reissue truly does sound like an OG as claimed by numerous other reviews - if that raw, present openness and push is there - then the JP2C will not provide the same sound with more versatility at the same price.

[@scottpeters4401]

I owned a 2C+ from 85 to 2003ish..Worth $3600 for the re-issue,not for me…I have the Synergy IICP,and it’s that circuit,and that sound,for a fraction of the re-issue…I would definitely buy the JP2C over the re-issue,given the crazy price….its a single channel dual mode amp,you can get a Mark7 for nearly the same price..

[@woodward_alan]

The JP2C has the features i would expect thus making it a better value and more practical.

[@SHREDTILLDEAD]

Practical my ass.

[@sheriewart8100]

It’s like buying a car with out a bunch of options and for $60 more you get all these extra options, for that little bit of money why not, if it was hundreds more then no, or would be like comparing a Diezel VH2 or for $60 more you could buy the VH4, which would you buy?

[@benpotter4905]

Jarrod, between the Mark V and JP-2C. Which would be a smarter buy? I’m looking at used only. I like to play death metal type riffs and don’t really need the versatility of the V.

[@M3dicinePYT]

Here is one reason that I have not been able to confirm that it might be a high price with less features. ...and I'm speculating because I haven't seen gut shots of the 2C+ reissue. I suspect that the JP2C will be less easy to repair and that there's probably a fair mount of PCBs. Assuming the JP2C is more complex and less labor intensive to build, that could lead to the similar price. And, if the components are easier to work on, the 2C+R might be a better buy on the longevity side. But, it's just speculation...I haven't seen the inside of the reissue. ...if it's all PCBs and surface mount components or otherwise cheaply made or difficult to repair long term, then there's probably not much justification for the price.

[@billgreenly5522]

You can see some of the internals of the RI on mesas KZbin, their official trailer they dropped about 10 days ago. 3 minute mark. Had my eye out for the same thing when I heard it was coming out

[@M3dicinePYT]

@@billgreenly5522 I might take a look... For me the jury is still out... I have a 2C+ and it feels very mid-heavy. Great for lead work, but less so for rhythm IMO. But, I have a IV that is a monster in the Rhythm area. So, I'm not personally in the market. But, if the 2C+RI is good quality less complex than some of the newer amps and therefore easier to maintain... It'll be good to have the extra units on the market ESPECIALLY IF THERE IS PARTS COMPATIBILITY... aside from the sliders which I am pretty sure are different. ...now from a touring perspective... It's a different question. I'd probably direct people to the JP2C if people are looking for the Mark sound. It has a lot of things that make it work well in that use case. Hopefully there'll be a teardown video hitting sometime soon and we can get some info on the internals.

[@nobodyimportant76467]

When I saw they were doing the IIC+ reissue at that price my first thought was that the JP2C would make more sense. The reissue is more of a status symbol in my opinion. There’s a reason why Mesa could have reissued it but chose instead to create a more modern, flexible version

[@jannatinkarlen8702]

if it is better built and easier/cheaper to service due to its simpler design, then it is a better option. Because we know those modern mesa sound good but are a nightmare for techs to work with. It is not always about features

[@irmasil3]

Pretty much a solid opinion here. If I was to go for a Mark 2c+ Mesa, I wouldn't buy the original for crazy money, neither the re-issue for the problems it carries from the original...I would get the Jp2C for sure...A modern made, fully controllable JP 2C....Too bad my modded Triaxis sounds exactly like a 2C+ (A/B'ed properly) so I cannot justify to my wife getting the JP2C...lol...

[@ones9308]

What about JP-2c vs Mk.7? The last one has an insane amount of features too including Mk.2C+ channel.

[@Tanax13]

It depends on what sounds you want. If you want 2C+ sounds, the JP2C has two full gain channels available. The 2C+ mode on the VII is only on channel 3 so you can only get 1 sound at any single time. So it depends. If you want to have the IV sound and crunch and all... the VII is cool. If you prioritize having just the 2C+ sound, the JP2C is cool. Just keep in mind that the JP2C has locked preset values of many of the original 2C+ knobs and pull pots. If you want the full 2C+ spectrum, the reissue is cool.

[@ones9308]

@Tanax13 yeah, i'm not buying any of these anytime soon, Mk.5:25 serves me just fine for now. I'm curious though why didn't Mk.7 get a mention since it's in the same price range.

[@Tanax13]

@@ones9308 I'm guessing since Jarrod doesn't have a VII, but I agree, it's definitely worth considering!

[@michaelcalleo292]

Mr Tone War iz 100% correct the JP iz a better buy. Theres alwayz one bad decision maker when these equity firms get their hands on iconic companies.

[@Murphy_R9]

This is a No-brainer for me. I would go with a JP!

[@ceniam12]

Heyy Man! Personally I just don't believe Mesa nor Petrucci in this regard, In their last releases they have been saying over and over again "THIS Is like the real IIC+". John said exactly the same about the V, and based on your old comparison, the V and the JP are very different sounding. Keeping this in mind, probably the reissue is also not the same as the vintage versions, but it could be that the reissue is the closest of all to the vintage ones... Maybe not, a good tech should answer to that. In case that the reissue is the closest, I would prefere it. I don't have the money and I never will anyway 😂

[@ubisuccle]

I do think the IIC reissue should be cheaper. The only reason I would choose it over the JP2C is because the circuit is more simple and would likely cost less to service

[@DerSilvano]

Sounds like you're using too much gain and that there are too much highs overall. But too each their own

[@donniejean]

Jarrod, did my internet get better, or did you get a new camera? You’re like in super dooper HD mode or something on my phone.

[@TrumpetsInMy4x12]

Sometimes features aren't the value add the builder thinks they are? My multiple times with the Cab Clone has me using a Suhr RL 10/10 over the Cab Clone turd. I don't want a second GEQ. Only thing I would like is the extra wattage and the shred mode.

[@IamTheDustDevil]

Hey Jarrod/Captain Overdrive, Gibson own words "Play Authentic" The new IIC+ is not built by Randy Smith thus Not Authentic, JP-2c is an authentic amp built by Randy & you get more !! And I just Purchased a Used Revv Generator G100P MKIII for $1500.00.... SCORED

[@TONEWARSgearshow]

Great points! Congratulations on the new amp. That is a great deal.

[@thunderfootpower]

Gibson vanity there selling for how historic or legendary the product is and people suck it up kinda like charging more than double for there new epiphones because they have a gibson shape headstock now and pickups

[@swampscott2670]

Well, in fairness people have been kicking and screaming for decades asking MB to reissue the amp. Now they finally did it under the new owenership and people are still complaining. It’s another option. I think it’s cool even though I’m likely not getting one (still have my Mark IV and full Triaxis rack - yet have been using my Kemper 99% of the time…)

[@levijudy4629]

Not really surprised with the price difference. I mean there isn’t a ton of musicians out there using the real tube amps anymore. If companies go out and put something new and overprice it how many people are actually buying it? You have probably 70% of touring musicians using kemper, fractal, and line6 then lots of studio musicians/producers are using amp sims and plug ins. But I’m with a lot of people, the real amp in the room sound can really be nearly impossible to replicate with these new sims and modelers. Never had a mesa but they do sound sick

[@donniejean]

Board of directors “what is this Tone Wars guy? Don’t send him one. He just single handily ruined our new IIC+. And now people are smelling eachothers farts.”

[@lynoj777]

I am actually thinking the same way. MkllC is JP with some extras. Why get the reissue mkllC for almost same price. It’s a no brainer. On top of it. For the purist perspective, the reissue MK ll C is not exactly same as the OG, and even the OG MK ll C doesn’t actually same exactly same. Great review and commentary 👍

[@lynoj777]

My JP 2C is coming in two days

[@GhostofGenX]

It's a no brainer!

[@0megalul309]

is simul class that expensive to replicate?

[@davew1134]

No

[@JohnPArgueta]

I think most people who will buy this reissue…already have the JP-C2. It’s a working Collectors Amp. It’s not for everyone. No need to overthink it. 🤘🏼

[@pizzaisgood4877]

Spot on with this video. JP2C all the way.

[@MrSpillify]

PSA for Motor City Guitars: It looks like the JP2C is in stock there for $3,599. Even more of a no-brainer!

[@fedrek01]

Many people may decide to buy a reissue simply because it is DRG which stands for SimulClass, my friend would say that the feeling between HRG and DRG is quite significant. Some difference in tightness, gain. But most people who want a reissue are just Metallica and Dream Theater fans. It's very important to make them understand that JP-2C is enough for Petrucci, for Metallica, Simul Class is needed just to be authentic. JP-2C can have 20 channels and more functions, you still won't convince the fans, so give them THAT amplifier or just go away, it's how it works for them. People forget how to use their ears instead of their eyes. I would buy the JP-2C and judging by the new reissue videos, I'm not very impressed with them, they sound kind of MEH. I will wait for Ola of course to make my final thought.

[@crumpetsandteaparty]

Metallica didn't use the simulclass portion of it. James only used the preamp from The Mark 2C + + and slaved it to the power amp of a Marshall JCM800.

[@fedrek01]

@crumpetsandteaparty Nope, Flemming Rasmussen already was asked if they slaved the amp or not and he said it was only for a couple of Kirk's solos. MOP is all Boogie and James specifically asked Mesa to give him Simul. I'm surprised this rumor still exists.

[@fedrek01]

@crumpetsandteaparty The different thing was AJFA but even there they slaved into Strategy 400 poweramp.

[@laffta6727]

ola did the jp-2c vs the og 2c+

[@DigiEvoluido]

It's not night and day, if you owned and compared vintage mesa marks you'd know. It's like saying there's a huge difference between a Mark II and a Mark III when there isn't.

[@jrlee243]

The hole tube market doesn't make sense to me. Is paying 4k for a soldano different than the c+ reissue? You could make a case that is a different situation, but both are priced to the moon. I own many tube amps, mostly from trades and buying used long before Reverb. I haven't bought a new amp in several years, because to me it seems more about the features than the tone. I have a mk1 engl savage. I like that better than the mk2. And it didn't cost me nearly what a new one cost. Only time will tell if this will keep going or they cut their own wrist. Dig, the new look, hasn't gone unnoticed.

[@TONEWARSgearshow]

Thanks for commenting. I totally get where you're coming from. Buying used amps is definitely the way to go. You save a lot of money and you get a lot for your money. I'm glad you like the new look. I appreciate the compliment.

[@LukeTurner-dg5zi]

What you’re paying for is the nostalgia of the 2C-+ reissue. That’s it, and of course the JP-2C doesn’t quite sound exactly like the original. I would play both and see which one sounds better.

[@matthewduncan9405]

Dude I felt the same way. The MESA Fanboy Karen’s got REALLY offended when I posted this question in the Heavy Metal Amps FB page. Total legit question! Less features with a lower price would result in higher sales due to it being more accessible.

[@TONEWARSgearshow]

Thanks for commenting. It's funny how all the Fanboys always get their panties in a wad over truth isn't it?

[@clemguitar63]

Jarrod, that outro Jam was the SHIT Dude! JP-2C!

[@TONEWARSgearshow]

Thank you!!! I'm glad you liked it.

[@WilliamWendland]

The JP was 4399 previously some months back IIRC. Seems like prices are coming back down.

[@TONEWARSgearshow]

Wow! It actually went up that high? I wasn't aware of that.

[@WilliamWendland]

@@TONEWARSgearshow I was checking it out last week, and I was like WOW!. I remember it being a lot more then the ENGL SEFE. I could be wrong though..I tried to look it up on the Wayback Machine, but no records just errors.

[@SociopatheAssume]

Wow, i was asking myself the same exact question a few hours earlier , then I see the title of your video, and the only thing that comes to my mind is : Why Gibson ? Why ? I know and realize that nostalgia has a price for some people , but why on earth would someone buy the IIc+ over the JP2C ? And I'm not even a Petrucci fan, but my choice would be without hesitation the JP2C any day any time. And I dare ANYBODY to differentiate these two amp in a complete "blind" test

[@Tanax13]

Simple. Because the reissue gives you all tonal options available on the 2C+. JP is only a preset for his sound, it's a signature amp so it makes sense. You can get sounds out of the reissue that you simply can't do on the JP. Of course, if you only dial it in for the classic 2C+ sound, you'll be able to get the decently close to each other.

[@SociopatheAssume]

@@Tanax13 But still , the reissue stays a really old , shared eq antiquity : who would choose this over a modern take on it, with 3 separate channels and double GEQ , and which is on top of this, even cheaper than the reissue ? You just can't make sense for the pricing, how can a 80's old technology , single GEQ, shared EQ, be more costly than a 3 channels, double GEQ, way more powering options and up to date components ? It defies the most elementary logic , but hey it's Gibson, since when are we expecting basic logic from them ?

[@Tanax13]

@SociopatheAssume Anyone that wants the full 2C+ tone palette? Most people don't need 2 GEQ. Most people don't play live these days and won't need the separate channel tone stacks. I'm not trying to convince you. For some people the JP2C will make a lot of sense. But you don't have to be a genius to be able to think about how the reissue will be great for some people. The JP2C, as I said, brings many improvements, but removes A LOT of the tonal options that the reissue still has. That's why they're similar in price.

[@nOpOrOpMoP]

Both amps can be made to sound nearly identical. I have a Jp and my friend has a o.g Mark ii C+. now I will say this, they do feel slightly different to play but not significant enough to matter. You can basically get the same thing out of both of them. if I had to purchase another brand new I would definitely choose the JP because of the dual eq and 3rd channel. it's not significantly heavier or anything so I would rather have the extra features. I have had both amplifiers in my possession at the same time for weeks at a time and have had a chance to dial both of them in and I don't see a huge difference honestly other than like you said, more features.

[@veronatragedy7016]

I have been planning to buy the JP since before there was even talk about this reissue coming out... and I did NOT even know the JP 2C has a 2C+ in it! I didn't even know Metallica used Mesa until fairlry recently, I thought it was all Marshall, although I heard talk of them using Mesa but until recently I didn't know which model Mesa they used or which albums they used it on... So picture this, I was already lusting after the JP "just" for the JP Channel 3, I had no clue about the 2c+ part of it! THEN, when I found out a 2c+ was used on Master of Puppets I was like wow, I want to get a 2c+ reissue in ADDITION to the JP 2C because that way I can have the JP 3rd channel & also a 2C+ for Metallica! After I learned the JP 2C "already" had the 3c+ in it then I realized wait a minute, why would I need a 2c reissue if I got a JP 2C that already has that in it plus does MORE! This was about a week ago when I had this epiphany & now you upload this video! See, great minds think alike! haha!

[@allengarrow6295]

Jp 100% nice playing by the way

[@mattvdh]

Ya that's a good point about the JP. The pricing makes no sense. I guess Mesa figures that the clout it has because of Hetfield and so on will make it more valuable on the market. Why wouldn't they just make a Hetfield signature already with built in klon and noise gate. That would be actually worth the price.

[@davew1134]

Because Metallica uses Fractal exclusively now.

[@MesaBVHT]

Choosing one over the other for individual taste and preference will almost always trump choosing one over the other because of a price difference

[@libertywormfarm3819]

I can has more gains?

[@hip-hopjedi4423]

The Synergy IICP is a better buy than both of them imo

[@therileyobrien]

I agree. Put two of them in a SYN2 and you’ve got your JP2C.😂

[@pauljackson2938]

@@hip-hopjedi4423 I agree into the right power amp it's very close

[@Eliphas_Elric]

Mark IIC+ RI is Simulclass and triode powersection. JP2C is Class A/B and Pentode. It's a different power section.

[@davew1134]

🤣

[@JohnWiku]

JP-2C is just a better amp, all the way!!

[@PK22-b7v]

100% true Factoring in the fact that building the JP2C is farrr more complex with much more manual labour plus far more parts ! The reissue is far less complex to build hence should be cheaper.

[@masterofreality230]

I knew it was going bad when they skipped Mark VI. 🤣🤣 I was thinking it would go for $2.5k since they are more simple. Greed does it again! I see it getting adjusted, at least some. Judging from their demos, they dont really know who their customer base. Its actually a bit slimy, counting on purists and the electronically ignorant. For me, I just like it has a good clean and a dirty channel that are both great. Its a flat out inspiration sometimes.

[@catalyzed8457]

Welcome to Gibson pricing logic. 🤦🏻

[@moorestreetfootscraytrucks2909]

Thanks for the interesting video. Does the jp2c have a pull deep equivalent?

[@TONEWARSgearshow]

You're welcome. Good question. I don't think it does. But it does have a pole on the presence knob so you can get two different types of presence sweeps.

[@Lokair54]

I hear ya, on the JP2C+ being the best amp Mesa ever made for me, but C+s selling for 10 to 15 K, Mesa(gibson) would be fools to not re-issue and charge less than originals yet put money into their pockets. Lest also not forget Mesa guys are loyal to what they like. Arnt they re-issuing the original dual Rectifier head too.

[@Tanax13]

It's not JP2C+, it's called just JP2C

[@Lokair54]

@@Tanax13 Oh wow I miss typed ,I stand corrected

[@Tanax13]

@@Lokair54 No worries, mate :)

[@stephenpryor1505]

......I think this is the best way of asking this but: Do you not hear the clipping? Ive followed your channel for a long time. Your tones are good yes, but everything seams to clip....Im a high gain metal guy too FYI

[@braxal6983]

From my understanding Jarrod Mesa had to pay a lot of money to reproduce the exact transformer the the reissue amp. They could not use stock on hand. It was very, very expensive to do along with other components. It is like my old 1972 Marshall they do not make those transformers. It blows I need a donor amp to get another.

[@davew1134]

Total BS, transformers are easy to make, wire and core, there is nothing magical about them. Just hype. Randall Smith never wanted to make the 2C+ because it was antiquated. The newer Marks covered the same bases, and most guitar players didn't care too much for the simuclass. Nostalgia is a powerful drug. Only Gibson brought back the 2C+, If Mesa wasn't owned by Gibson, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[@1xRacer]

this is missing the point, the jp2c has the reissue transformer... unless you mean they need to sell more amps ? but why not just reduce the price bc it only makes sense to buy the jp rn.

[@braxal6983]

@@1xRacer No from my understanding the transformer in the new Mark IIc is a different transformer than the one in the JP. The new transformer was made to be exactly like the original. That is where the cost is. Well a lot of it. The 2 amps do not have the same transformer. Go check out some Fryette amps video where Steve explains about the cost of remaking vintage transformers.

[@davew1134]

@@1xRacer No actually it doesn't. There were several 2C+ variants back in the day. The standard class A/B power section which the JP2C has, and then the Simuclass, which allows you to run 2 tubes class A/B and two tubes in class A. The supposed holy grail 2C+ that everyone longed for was the Simuclass verion. The 2C+ re-issue has the SimuClass power section. If you go back and watch the old John Petrucci JP2C videos he says the JP2C was based on the non simuclass version. Which is correct.

[@demokraatti]

Ridiculously overpriced reissues are what Gibson is know for.

[@cunjoz]

and a Mark VII is e$50 cheaper than a mark iic+. gibson are really trying to NOT sell the iic+.

[@robhanson2653]

Even the OG Mark v. You know the full head or freaking a 35 w you're talking a third of the price

[@veronatragedy7016]

I think it should be at least $1,000 less. Unless we are talking a Two Rock head, any amp head over $3,500 is over-priced..... I am basing this on the fact that a new Suhr SL68 head is $3,449 and the 100 watt EVH Stealth is $2,449. I mean for real.... the evh 100 watt stealth is every bit as good as the reissue 2C in terms of quality/tone, I mean looks like its one of your faves on your channel & its way under 3k! Also look how amazing the Friedman JEL 50 head is and its only $3,000.... just pointing out it seems the average price of a head of this type of cailber is $3,000, these are the reasons I feel the 2C is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over priced, especially when the JP 2C is the same thing but with way more of everything!

[@Tanax13]

But it's not more of everything? It has none of the pull pots from the original 2C+. It even does away with an entire knob (volume 1). The JP2C is LESS of everything related to 2C+ tone. Sure, it adds OTHER things, like shred mode, which is cool, but not related to 2C+ tone plus you can achieve the same thing with a boost anyway. 2 GEQ is cool, but kinda niche. The JP2C is a modern version of a preset tone from the 2C+. The reissue gives you all 2C+ tone spectrum. Depends on what you value I guess..

[@veronatragedy7016]

@@Tanax13 I don't hear a difference though between 2c reissue and jp 2c... however, here is something for YOU to think about.... the 2c reissue is VERY different from the original 2C too! Because the original 2C used parts like transformers.caoaicitors, not sure which parts, but I know for a fact it has several parts Mesa can't source anymore so they had to use parts available now, so if you really wanna be OCD about it all don't get the reissue either because it's very different in that regard to the original 2c. Also if ya wanna get even further in the weeds, bet you that each original 2c has slight variances between everything too.... no two of ANYTHING sound exactly the same... with that said I think the 2c in the JP is the same, unless you are a OCD Metallica fanatici that has to have every minute detail, and in that case ya better seek out Hetfield and buy the actual 2c he used on the records... and I bet that due to age even that one won't sound the same as it did in 1986.... you are chaising a dragon you will never catch.

[@Tanax13]

@@veronatragedy7016 I agree that components are probably different. I'm not one that cares about that. But not having the volume 1 makes a drastic difference in what tones you can achieve. If you're only comparing high gain and the "petrucci" sound, then yeah you probably won't hear a difference. But turn the volume 1 down to 4 and you'll hear a difference. That pushed fat tone is not possible on a JP2C. If you don't use it for those kinds of tones, fair enough, enjoy the JP2C. All I'm saying is that there is DEFINITELY a merit for the 2C+ reissue to exist and that the price is warranted.

[@veronatragedy7016]

@@Tanax13 Could be. I have not thought much about anything beyond high gain tones. Really seems like a extremely versatile amp though. I'm learning new things about it each day. I'm really starting to see now the reasons why people said even back in the 1990s that Mesa blows Marshalls out of the water. Really makes me wonder why Marshall does not even seem to try and compete with stuff like this and design amps of this level of complexity. Seems like Marshall was the amp that started it all, but now a days seems like Marshall comes in last place to all the other brands.

[@Tanax13]

@@veronatragedy7016 I think that's the issue tbh, most people just see these as a one trick pony, and for that the JP2C nails those tones. But anything other than that, it's very limited. Not bashing on the JP2C though, it's a cool amp and brings many improvements also! Marshall is introducing some new things at NAMM 2025. It's rumored that they are opening up for factory modding. Fluff uploaded a picture of a JMP with factory mods as a teaser on his Instagram, saying "Marshall at NAMM will be amazing". But I agree, the Mesa Mark is such a unique beast!

[@darekpeszt3640]

Funny enough they were the exact same price when I checked on the website the day it went up. I actually would pick the Mark VII over this as it has the cab clone ir+ which apparently doesn’t suck. This is a pure cash grab for the fan boys and collectors.

[@donniejean]

Well possibly, it’s been in development under wraps for so long, they had no choice. As far as cost, I also think they were clueless there. Perhaps they thought like the comments say, it’s nostalgia. I firmly believe in my JP. I’ve been sick lately but I have almost all the stripe Mesa III stripes. I know some are the + and one might be the ++. Perhaps coliseum so I wouldn’t be apples to apples at all if you got your hands on the new IIC+, you could shoot them out. And then tell me my Mark III needs $3k in servicing 😂 But again, I think they had to price it where it is, because I’m betting they’ll lost their $$$$ in not knowing what they are doing. I guarantee in crap marketing alone they spent a good million. I work in marketing so I know costs etc. I wonder what agency they used or if they have an in-house team. The way it went I’m guessing in-house and they figured it would be a no brainer plug and play marketing campaign. It’s almost as if “we” as an entire industry of our own, start our own campaign and what is happening to our music market. H3LL NO WE WONT GO! It’s kinda cold to Pickett, but I’m still down! We’ll bring out our JPs and OG’s!

[@epasternak4206]

Marshall, Hi Watt,Engal.

[@rottingcorpse6002]

I'd buy a used JP2C all day over the "new" C2+.