TONEX Pedal vs Effectrode BLACKBIRD - can it hang with the all-tube heavyweight?

Obviously it's not a fair comparison, don't shout at me, but since we all love the ToneX pedal so much let's see how it compares to one of the all-time great tube guitar preamps... the Effectrode Blackbird.
TONEX Pedal: bit.ly/3kojtNZ
Amplitube 5 for $50: bit.ly/3XWAAnU
TONEX Plugin: bit.ly/3Z6tQ7O
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MY WEBSITE: (guitar tracks and mixing): www.jonwright.co.uk.

[@dw8582]

I’ve been wanting to see a comparison of the Blackbird with recently released gear. Thanks for doing this! Your channel is quickly becoming one of my favs.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Ah thank you. There might be more Blackbird stuff to come...

[@jaredashy]

agreed! loving jon’s channel!!

[@abehaddad]

I've seen so many comparison videos and honestly the difference between toneX and all the other units I've seen it compared to is negligible and for what it costs it's a fantastic addition to any guitarist's tool box

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Agreed!

[@irrationallynegative]

Great comparison, thank you. I really appreciated the laid back, rational approach. I’m getting the Blackbird.

[@GrahamPrior]

It is difficult to describe, and you’re describing it perfectly. This is why when I’ve plugged direct (albeit briefly) and heard my direct sound (no amp/cab nothing) I kinda enjoy it more than the virtual amps. I think this is why, it has an immediacy.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Thanks Graham. I’m a fan of DI too here and there. But it’s quite exposing!

[@markburrows1563]

I really do like my Tonex but… I absolutely fell in love with my Blackbird. I am running both on a board now which I guess is overkill. Thank you for this brilliant review of these two units.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Ah that is really kind, thanks.

[@dukey558]

Awesome as always...Big applause to this video from Korea. BTW, would you do comparison Blackbird and UA Enigmatic 82 recently released on the market with regards to Dumble tones?..

[@INeedsMoneys]

Absolutely fantastic video mate! 💯👍

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Appreciate this comment from several months ago!

[@brianwalton2602]

I've done profiles for the Ethos Overdrive (similar in concept to the Blackbird but without the Tubes). If you profile the Blackbird with the TONEX you will see how close or far apart the two are, and I'm sure the community would like to test drive a virtual Blackbird as well. I'm not sure the "attack" characteristics on two completly different captured devices is a fair assessment of differences in performance. I do appreciate just how close the two were tonally as you matched them up fairly surprising there considereing the IR was the only thing that was the same between the two.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I agree and I might make some Blackbird profiles. But I think we know that the Tonex profiling is pretty accurate, it didn't seem an interesting to do yet another A/B test. I wanted to see how the IK blackface and the Effectrode interpretation sounded - finding that that they're quite different in terms of attack, yet similar in tone, was quite interesting to me. I will say though that the cab IR, to me, is usually a massive part of the sound.

[@pclindholm]

Thanks for your analysis - you've articulated well that feel and playing experience that keeps us playing through real tubes. It makes me want a Blackbird. Sometimes I think we should be judging digital gear as to whether or not it's good enough, and I think the Tonex is more than good enough based on price, features, flexibility. Please keep up the good work.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Thanks Philip. I think it's not only about sound, but also about how it operates and what it brings out. Even if sometimes it's bias - if it feels different, it matters.

[@downtownbillyandthenewjivefive]

Thanks. I've decided to add the ToneX to my kit.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Congrats! Hope it works for you

[@TreyStegall]

The value in the ToneX is really astonishing.

[@robertkoascorpio]

Agreed - the fact that it can hang with the Blackbird in a good studio setting with a really excellent player shows this. I wanted to like the Friedman Tube Pre but the Blackbird is much closer to what I need and much better harmonic structure etc etc. TONEX is surprising in quality .

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Yep. Both great great pedals!

[@FranciscoYosores]

Hey Jon, great videos! New subscriber here. I would love to see you do a Bluguitar Amp 1 review video.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Thanks for the sub! Considering it...

[@shorerocks]

Honestly, what we (yes, I include myself) are doing here is ridicilous. This is not critisicm, Jon, I love your videos! If a player really depends so much on the last 5, 10 percent of tone dynamics to play decently, and feel 'good' so his/her creative juices flow, ok. I find a great player sounds great, because he simply is a great player. That being said, I am interested in all the new things that try to step up to a tube amp. Also, I am happy to play with my Kemper, current firmware, my profiles, to the end of my days. I happen to remember (and as I still have them, can listen to them, uargh) the 4 track demos and rehearsal demos on 8 track we did in the 80s. Really, I do not like modelling. But. What is on offer now is so much better compared what was available to me then. Cheers + thx for doing this.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I think that’s kind of the perspective I’m moving towards - that it only matters if it matters to you. However personally I’m still fascinated by both the tech and my own ability to convince myself of whatever I want to!

[@shorerocks]

@@JonWrightMusicTV Spot on. Cheers from Germany

[@007bennett]

I think a better comparison would be to profile the blackbird and run it in tonex. You not really comparing apples to apples. Yeah they both are the fender black face sound but I think it would be more fair if it was a profile of the blackbird.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I get that, but there are plenty of those tests. It's more about the experience of using the two different bits of gear and where they lead you.

[@smashmash]

​Might as well have compared the Blackbird to a real twin/dumble and then be surprised the feel/tone is different. Makes no sense. Tonex sole function is to accurately profile an amp, which it does, and it does do dynamics as other videos that do null comparisons (inverted profile waveform played against source so you only hear differences - the Tonex was virtually spot on, QC next best, Kemper last)

[@Malburn]

It would be even more interesting it you modelled the Blackbird and done a comparison. That might put the cat amongst the proverbials

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I imagine it would have been closer, but who knows!

[@sherbuel]

@@JonWrightMusicTV i just profiled my preamp..try it, you'll be surprised believe me !

[@perryrice6573]

There is a BB profile for kemper, in the user forum. It is sweet

[@shorerocks]

@@perryrice6573 I'll check that out. Been ages i was on the forum

[@AlecBourneMidiMadScientist]

Exactly,. My thoughts up untill the 14th minute. Capture the tube preamp and compare it to the real thing.

[@Cluless02]

Excellent video!! I'd go with the Blackbird for the feel alone. But as well the tone has a vitality and sweetness where the Tonex lacks. Effectrode is really high end. Nice playing too!

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Thanks, glad this was interesting to you

[@AlexisGerredMusic]

Always incredible content

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Thanks man!

[@keemarcello1000]

I don't see any difference, apart from the volume, Blackbird has more volume, but the tone is exactly the same

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Oh man, you don't?

[@robertkoascorpio]

A great demo showing the quality of both units . And inconclusive in a great way ! When you think about it .

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Glad you enjoyed it, I aim to share the ignorance!

[@panikpas]

Just use the Eq inside the Tone X and you will match it perfectly.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Hmm, maybe

[@grantborden5224]

Now profile/capture/clone your Blackbird pre with TONEX and see how close that is? Apples to Apples.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I've definitely seen enough of those tests to know that Tonex does a great job in that area

[@400_billion_suns]

This comparison is akin to comparing two different amps and saying they feel different. I agree with other comments who've said you need to capture the Blackbird to make any of these assessments. TONEX is a clean slate -- it can mimic a gazillion different things. Dynamic response/attack/"feel" are part of the TONEX profile. If you capture the Blackbird and still notice these differences, then you can chalk it up to a shortcoming of TONEX.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I very much understand what you’re saying and if it’s not helpful or interesting to you, that’s 100% ok. But I respectfully disagree that you can’t make assessments. I’m not really interested in doing null tests and so on, you can find that stuff elsewhere. For me it’s about pulling up ‘a Twin’ or whatever and seeing how it feels, what it inspires. Like, I’m interested in an Iridium vs a Helix. They do have inherent properties. Things don’t have be a clone of the other to be tried out together and then discussed. If it’s not for you, that’s cool.

[@400_billion_suns]

@@JonWrightMusicTV Hi, just want to first say I appreciate the respectful reply and I mean mine with all respect your way too. To me, it sounds like you’re beginning with an assumption that the TONEX pedal or modeling has an inherent quality that persists across all captures, and that’s what you’re looking for. But how do we know if that’s really the case? Every capture contains dynamic response characteristic of the captured hardware, which includes the amp itself, the mic, the mic pre, and the rest of the signal chain that got the capture into TONEX. That will affect attack, tone, and feel. If you’re looking for an inherent quality of TONEX captures, you need to isolate variables and reduce them as much as possible. The best way to do that would be to take a direct capture of your Blackbird (no mic, no cab), and then compare TONEX’s capture with Blackbird through the same IR and output chain. Without doing that, there’s really no way to separate what is part of the capture vs. what is an inherent trait of TONEX algorithms and/or hardware.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I'm happy to have this discussion. Just to clarify, they are both going through identical IRs and output chain. Anyway, I really do see your point: it's not comparing apples with apples, and in order to identify whether the Tonex has 'X' you need to make a profile of the thing you're comparing it to. I do get it. Here's the issue. Firstly, there are significant variables in the profiling process (the gain staging on the interface, for example), and you're stuck with the profile you take. The flexibility of the Blackbird - which is part of its character and value - is missed. So that's unfair on the Blackbird, if you like. Even when you have your profile accurately captured, the moment you move a knob on the Blackbird, that Blackface tone circuit means that the Tonex profile you made is no longer accurate because the EQ on the Tonex and the Blackbird are ridiculously different. So if you want a bit less gain for the humbuckers? New capture. Bit warmer for the Tele? New capture. And repeat for all three Blackbird channels. The whole workflow is different and I really just don't see the point of 'freezing' one of the infinite possibilities of an amp and comparing that single sound, because that's not how I work. I'm not just comparing a sound or two, I'm looking at the range of sounds and personally I (I suspect I'm not the only one), don't want to spend time making and cataloguing a dozen profiles for every thing I might want to use. You'd could say 'well, make one profile and take it from there'. Fine. But time is short and I want to see how the ToneX Twin sounds against the Effectrode Twin. That's the comparison. How do they feel to use, to touch, to tweak, what are the psychoacoustic effects of seeing the tubes glowing on the Blackbird, etc. Presumably the Tonex models that they've included in the unit, they're quite happy with? Ok so what's it like compared to an all-tube preamp that's trying to do a similar thing? That's where I'm approaching it from. Yes, to make it a proper 'test' we'd a/b between amp and profile. You're correct in that. I just think to limit our focus to how accurately a device can copy a single bunch of settings on a device is missing the point. Again, appreciate the respectful disagreement - it's all good with me and it's making me continue to think this stuff through which is great.

[@onpoint1180]

love your stuff brother. keep up the good work.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Thanks man

[@mortonwilson795]

Thanks for this - interesting for me as a longtime Blackbird owner, not familiar with the Tonex but will explore. I can understand you leaving it as an open question as to preferences . . . ultimately I think it always comes down to 'feel' and personal taste. I have been playing since the 70's thru various Fender amps and when I need to play direct in the studio the Blackbird is my 'always on' pre-amp - it brings a certain immediacy and harmonic lift (a 'halo' for the more poetic amongst us) that feels very natural. Will check out other vids on your channel. As an analog guy brought up on tape I wonder if you have come across the Strymon Deco? It has some interesting double-track, tape modulation and compression facets that feel quite authentic to me if I'm going straight into the desk!

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Thanks for sharing. It is a lovely preamp to use and even just the clean channel is so good to include in a signal chain. I’ve not tried the Deco, no. I’m certainly interested in the tape compression/degradation but haven’t actually made the commitment to purchase. I started off recording to tape too, and feel that sound is one of the most under-appreciated aspects of guitar tone for a lot of us.

[@mikesage2043]

Did you play with the input trim on the Tonex at all to see if you could closer to the blackbird’s sounds, especially as related to pick attack? Annoyingly harsh pick attack is my biggest complaint in any of the amp simulator units I’ve tried but you still need some presence to cut through a mix

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I didn't really experiment with the trim, just set it about right for the guitar.

[@liametoh]

Amazing video Jon. I need some help and maybe you could help me. How well take pedal the Blackbird?? For example, I have a MXR 5150 pedal (that is a overdrive pedal) that I need to run in front a good clean chanel, but I dont want to place in front of a tube amp, instead I want a good tube preamp + IR loader (to choose between headphone and monitors studio). Could the Blackbird be this golden pedal that I need? Or is better just go with the tonex pedal? I hope you understand my question! Thank in advance!!

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Sorry I missed this. BB takes pedals really nicely. Can't comment on that specific combo though. Thanks for watching!

[@ia3630]

Thank you for another banger of a video! Got me wondering if the unit's I/O could be a factor there, on top of the sim algorithm: having worked with a number of consoles from different vendors and eras I've seen a good deal of variance, mainly from preamps and probably ADCs too, both on the frequency and envelope profiles of their recordings. The act of profiling should also be subject to it, as at the time of capture you're required to run through similar preamp/ADC components, giving the profilers two extra tonal conversion steps compared to analog straight into an interface.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I hear that. Personally, I found conversion in guitar gear these days to be an area of minuscule importance. Preamp circuits yes, headroom yes, impedance yes. But I think looking to AD conversion as a factor in guitar tone is probably barking up the wrong tree. I could be wrong! But I think conversion is pretty simple and just varying degrees of excellent.

[@MrTimMifsud]

I’d love to see a comparison of the effectrode against a Two Notes Revolt

[@lourossi9862]

First off, WOW, if what I am seeing in the video is correct, you like your action high! 🙂 I've been considering the Blackbird for months now and I am getting close to pulling the trigger. After watching your demo, I am staying with the Blackbird. I've been playing a BOSS GP-10 with Fender/Roland GC-1 Strat for years, and I find myself longing to get back to an analog signal path. I am playing in a cover band - a lot of disco-oriented 70's stuff. Which is a hoot, since I was in a Disco band back in the mid 70's. The GP-10 is well-suited for recreating a lot of the guitar tones from yesteryear, and in the context of a mix with the band, it sounds pretty good. I've gotten used to the feel, but it's really not all that in the feel department. I am subscribing to your channel and look forward to following your demos! Thanks!

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

It was a bit high! Thanks for watching. Nothing quite like a simple analogue rig is there...

[@josh_ari]

The blackbird is like vinyl. It has crackles and warm fuzzy details. The tonex sounds digital. In a perfect world I'd use a blackbird for dirt and the tonex as an amp simulator. Thank you for the video.

[@theprisonier]

Comparing a preamp with an amp (simul or true) i don’t understand. What kind of power amp do you use for the effectrode ?????

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

There’s no power amp for the Blackbird in this case. Cab is off for the ToneX, both are going through the same cab in Amplitube. This is one of the intended uses for the Blackbird

[@slummymind6169]

Well, although you might have made/heard a ton of tonex models vs modeled units comparisons here it would be really relevant to make a tonex model of the blackbird to see "if it can hang" and see how it compares attack wise. I mean there will be likely some diferences between the blackbird and the amps it's modeling so these diferences will naturally show up in the tonex models of these amps.

[@mariusznaecz-nieniewski6622]

Hi, i'm really impressed by... BLACKBIRD. Thanks for bringing it up to my attention, maybe my 2 Mullard tubes will finally find a decent enough place :) And what about your opinion on SONICAKE Sonic IR? What length of waves can you uploud to it? I like your videos a lot, cheers.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

You could do a lot worse than the BB as a home for them! I have yet to get into the Sonicake, but I will be doing so soon. Cheers!

[@clintwhite3021]

I had the sonicake ir loader and it was quite bad. The latency was noticeable and just didn't seem to sound that good.

[@PoochysUncle]

this is incredibly helpful, thanks

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Glad it was helpful!

[@rayg6360]

At this point digital modelers and computer plugins are so close to tubes and will probably be indistinguishable when they solve the latency down to zero that I think what really matters is whatever makes you play better more confidently and makes you more creative is all that matters, everything recorded will end up digital at some point anyway.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Probably agree with you here. Personally I've not had a problem with digital itself for years - I like the sound of CDs - but it's the processing limitations. But we're getting there now...

[@ksharpe10]

Oh, be careful with TWIN, is it the famous 50's Tweed Twin or the even more well known but circuit different BlackFace Twin/Reverb, and or maybe a later Silver Face TWIN. Which one got Captured??

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

That's a fair question! I'll try to find out

[@Fallowsun]

Solid demo. But the quality variance between Tonex profiles is huge so… ??

[@michaelanzaldua9686]

What daw do you use for your song demonstrations? And do you use backtracking or do you produce it all yourself?

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Logic. I make the tracks myself 👍

[@robertkoascorpio]

Excellent intelligent demo with good solid playing to really test them. The effectrode which I just become aware of is a great preamp .And I am surprised that the quality and harmonics on the modeler are so close .There may be a little more upper harmonic information from the effectrode but it still stays sweet . But the modeler is generally in the same class. But if I was going to to a CD I might be better off with Blackbird and a few extra tubes. I like the quality of the directvrecording from both units . I have a good ADA Tube pre ( someone modded before I bought it ) ( cleaner quieter lower gain in a good way) but the Blackbird is brilliant and quiet - and excellent sounding . I like legato picking without hammering or tapping and noted what you said about picking attack [ on some things I like zero to sound like Sax where you don't hear the pick and the midgain type tones are what I use but clean on complex chords [ I might like to try to get a tiny amount of crunch on complex chords... Anyway I agree with your non preference and the modelers have come a long long way . Thanks for the Demo - excellent work. These are different slightly but both are album quality as you are using them . A good pre like Blackbird can get you there quicker [ I assume ] and people can go off the rails a bit with modelers . But the Blackbird reminds me of some exotic preamps from the old Huge Racks Inc. Forum -

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Thanks for this comment. It's really interesting to read your experience.

[@aonortac]

I have the Effectrode Blackbird since 2 years and have been comparing to my Two Notes Torpedo CAB M+, Kemper, SansAmp PSA 2.0, UAFX Dream and Woodrow and so on but nothing beats it... Just like a good old tube amp, the feel and natural compression is nowhere near on digital emulations. I guess Phil is right, guitar tone is better with tubes...

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

What are you running the Blackbird into, may I ask?

[@aonortac]

@@JonWrightMusicTV Into a SSL Six analog mixer and then into a UA Apollo Twin Mk II Quad Core interface, same as other units. I use 600 ohm balanced output of the Blackbird with a TRS cable.

[@clintwhite3021]

​@@aonortacHi did you feel the need for a speaker simulation, especially for overdriven tones? I'd like to get a blackbird and run direct but not sure if I would have to still use my IR loader. Cheers

[@aonortac]

@@clintwhite3021 Yes, you need cabsim unless you go into the fx loop of a real amp/cab setup. I go through my Two Notes Cab M.

[@clintwhite3021]

@@aonortac Ok thanks so much for the reply!

[@YOutsider]

interesting: with tonex you stack 2 A/D conversions (tonex + DAW), with Blackbird you have 1. may partially acct. for dynamics. I use a Blackbird and like it.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Hmm, I really don't think that one additional set of conversions would have anything close to that level of impact on the sound - I suspect it's more about the different amps that were profiled and/or the nature of modelling vs all-tube gear.

[@jwright8838]

In my opinion, the only substantial difference is going to be in the "feel" to the player. The Tonex adds roughly 3msec of latency. If you play the Blackbird direct to monitor (the same as the Tonex) its possible for someone to feel the difference between their latencies, but its difficult to hear them if you aren't playing. I will note, that the typical latency from guitar amp speaker to ear (with a 30ft cable) is similar to what the Tonex does. Because you didn't "capture" the Blackbird its really about which device's feel and tone do you like best. Nice video.

[@jwright8838]

@Sozo Yup, you are correct. I was thinking of typical stage spacing, not standing with a 30 foot cable completely deployed. That would make a tube amp even worse....lol. That makes a great case for using IEMs no matter what you are using.

[@jwright8838]

@Sozo BTW, I saw a video recently by a KZbinr discussing how IEM help with timing and groove of a band by allowing everyone to have similar latency in their monitors...I think it was Adam Neely's channel.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I think the latency from the Tonex is a non issue tbh, including in this comparison. With a computer you often have software monitoring, with an amp you have physical distance (3ft = 3ms) - nothing really. I hear what you're saying - it can add up in the end with multiple devices - but not sure it's an influence in this test. I mean you could even say that that minuscule delay gives the experience of playing an amp a few feet away!

[@prospectnyc]

I'm getting a lot more than 3msec of latency on the ToneX pedal.

[@jwright8838]

@@prospectnyc Really? Maybe yours is defective. How are you measuring it?

[@nevessl576]

I've heard that honkiness in every ToneX model I've heard so far, but you're the first person I've heard mention it.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Interesting. I do wonder if it's a character of the tone models people choose, or an inherent characteristic of the pedal/software. I have to say the profiling tests I've heard by people more dedicated to accurate capture than me, are very accurate. But this is the kind of thing I'm wondering about.

[@wolfnstrings]

While entertaining, it was a bit confusing that you didn’t use a more similar amp model on the Tonex. I enjoyed the sounds of both in different ways but can’t help wondering if we were comparing anything meant to be similar. Please don’t take this as a troll remark. I’d like to hear another comparison.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

No that's ok, I get it. I think I made a mistake in calling it a 'VS' video - it's not really a shootout or test, it's more of a discussion of both bits of gear and how I feel using them. Point taken

[@perryrice6573]

Is the BB going through an IR? Nice stuff.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Yep - they're both going through identical cab/room IRs from Amplitube.

[@jameskesler1930]

Isn't Tonex an Actual "capture" not an amp sim? A capture could have been compressed at time of capture unlike the uncompressed Blackbird. Compressed captures might all suffer from the same lack of dynamic range.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Exactly correct.

[@simonhall2682]

Great piece of music mate, so nice not to hear the usual dad rock of you tube reviewers!!

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I'm forever trying to stay on the narrow path between metal and dad rock. I feel seen, thank you!

[@simonhall2682]

Just came back to watch this again as I’ve just bought a Blackbird and that music still sounds awesome!! Needs to be turned into a full track.

[@davidlalremruata]

How would Tonex compare to, say, the Nux mg series, for eg. the mg300?

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I have tried the Nux modelling but I may do in future. By reputation, I’d expect the Nux to fall a bit short but it would be interesting to find out

[@ksharpe10]

To my OLD ears the tele stuff is almost exact, your sign wave brought out, that it is electronically different. The 335 Stuff, it sounds like the tonex is somewhat Compressed more, roll the compression off and you might get exact. It is pretty well known that the Dumbles usually the ones I have heard either actual amp. Clone models, and Captures have a more boutiquey Compressionistic Tone to them, a Rounded sound to the ear, and clips off some of that pick attack sizzle, So if the Compression in the modeller is rolled off somewhat it might match. But then your searching for maybe a Mesa mk 2c sound, and not the so called Dumble Tones. Sound is very much a personal perception. Hope this is FOOD for thought. Apples to Apples. OF COURSE I COULD use the old Rock term: IT'S CLOSE ENOUGH FOR ROCK AND ROLL, it certainly is that. oh, and just thought that works in reverse as well, could put a tad more Compression on the BlackBird and then it might get the Tonex Capture tone.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Exactly, for me this one is more about having a chilled out chat and some playing rather than scientific comparisons..

[@matthewearl9824]

Make sure you have your input trim set up properly on the TONEX.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Sounds like solid advice, but how do you define 'properly'?

[@ЕвгенийМакаров-ю3ц]

Absolutelly exact comment! I think trim setting a little bit different the Tonex and the Blackbird)))

[@thisisqualia]

I consider the Blackbird THE BEST tube preamp.

[@RDHamel]

The tonex is generally more open and less pokey. I prefer it but for the repertoire the blackbird might get you over a drummer who has no dynamic control.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Horses for courses indeed!

[@leonbrownmusic]

Think the difference you are feeling may be the latency from the Tonex. It isn't bad but it is there in my experience.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I hear you but I don't think so in this case: I record and monitor through Logic (software monitoring) all the time with 20-30ms of latency and I'm used to that - so in this example the Tonex latency would be 23ms and the Blackbird would be 20ms - I don't think that would make a difference to my experience - or even be noticeable.

[@leonbrownmusic]

@@JonWrightMusicTV Ah ok. Yea if that's the case it's definitely not latency you are feeling!

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

It’s always worth keeping latency in mind though these days

[@perryrice6573]

Latency wouldn't change the waveform

[@shorerocks]

@@perryrice6573 Gee, exactly what I wanted to say. Are you my alter ego?

[@gffg387]

You are comparing two different things and trying to interpret what you're hearing as good or bad, and most of the times leaning towards the thing with valves being the good and the digital thing being the bad. If Tonex had more of that dynamic range, one would probably say that it's digital harshness, lack of analog mid warmth, lack of valve compression and etc. Now, I've being using Tonex, alongside some of my real amps. And the atack thing is indeed something I notice. Some captures indeed have a more soft attack. Btw, most of the IK captures has this soft attack. I guess this is highly dependent of the gear you have used to do the captures. Like mics, preamps and converters, because in real recordings a Beyerdynamic throught a Neve preamp will have a very different transient response than a SM57 thorught an API preamp. Anyway, the video was good but I don't think it leads to any conclusion.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Hey thanks for the comment. Appreciate the feedback. I don’t know if I’m being unclear, or you’ve just not seen the whole video. The conclusion is basically about exactly that leaning toward the tube and a discussion of bias/expectation. I say at the end I literally don’t know what conclusion to draw from this. Maybe it’ll be helpful for someone. That’s ok right?

[@gffg387]

@@JonWrightMusicTV I guess you talked about that a few times across the video. But we can deny that you were basically describing any difference between the devices as the Blackbird = good, while Tonex = bad. Like, one has more treble? If it's the Blackbird, that's good, if it's the Tonex, that's bad. It was basically this: you spent 18 minutes being biased towards one unit, and 2 minutes being more impartial.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

@@gffg387 Really? I'm not really getting where you're coming from to be honest. I spent 20 minutes talking about how good the Tonex is in a different video, I like it very much. They're both great. If that didn't come across that's good to know.

[@truthfactreality6814]

You should try a bluguitar amp 1.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

People keep saying this…

[@truthfactreality6814]

@@JonWrightMusicTV because it’s not modelling and it sounds awesome. It’s small too

[@nenadkarisic7726]

@@JonWrightMusicTV Second this. I have it and I just can not imagine myself lugging any amp around, since AMP1 has all i could ever need and it FEELS great. But, please, if you do, DO NOT use the built-in cab sim, since it's sub-par compared to any other half-decent cab sim device or 3rd party IR (it's there just in case all else fails and you need to go straight to PA, in my opinion, but it's great this it's there nonetheless), that you can tailor to your needs. They have BluBox for that purpose as a separate product which should be complementary to the AMP1.

[@shorerocks]

Not modeling, not profiling but using some kind of (?) tube. I know Thomas Blug a bit, he definitely is a no-nonsense, down to earth guy. And a great player. I mean. What a player (saw him live quite often). Talk tone... talk with Thomas (he has a YT channel and does weekly live sessions). THAT would be something I would be watching. Ok, you would need to visit Germany...

[@truthfactreality6814]

@@shorerocks yeh he’s a great guy. Met him at a few shows in the uk. He always replies too for customer service. Bluguitar amp 1 stuff is amazing. Amp X is out soon too

[@CoolPabloDeTodo]

Does existe any footswitch for Tonex?

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Do you mean additional external switches?

[@dukey558]

Will be better for ToneX users if a capture of Blackbird be purchased at a reasonable price.. please.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I've started looking at making some Blackbird profiles - will drop another comment if/when I have something

[@Frank-fh2qn]

The Blackbird sounds more real, the tonex sounds like a video game

[@justmehere6094]

Still not sure of the aim of this video/comparison was. All it really showed is the difference of A. different Amps, and B. The one drawback, of sorts, to the profile, capture technology. Tonex, like ALL capture/profile technologies is still a 'snapshot' of an amp. More to the point, it is typically a particular person's snapshot of their preferred setup for that amp. Let's say it 100% captures everything about that amp, at those settings, feel, pick attack, etc. etc. etc, perfectly. That still might not be what YOU prefer, even if you had said amp captured. THe best use of the TOnex Pedal, is to capture YOUR amps, how YOU want them running. So, in this 'test', would have been the Blackbird (though why take a copy of something, if the same footprint). BUT, over time, you will see what Kemper had, people making 'ranges; of captures of an amp, not just that one setting.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I feel like you’re kind of answering your own question here and broadly agree with your point. The snapshot thing is exactly the limitation of modelling and it’s the emerging answer from the comparison. For me, it even feels somewhat futile to compare even a capture of the device itself because other than that one sound, they have fundamentally different characteristics of function. It’s a comparison of IK’s capture vs Effectrode’s interpretation - that’s it. Tbh I’m cool with that. People compare wildly different products all the time, and it can help build a picture for people who don’t own the devices. If not interesting, it’s not a problem.

[@justmehere6094]

@@JonWrightMusicTV First, the snapshot aspect is not really an issue of modelling, viz a viz Helix, or Axe FX. It is, though for Profiling and Capturing. It isn't the comparing of different products, even vastly different, that I'm discussing. It is the, in my opinion, wrongly, drawing certain conclusions from that comparison. If I compare a Fender blackface to a Diezel, vastly different amps, they will feel, respond, and react different, have different attack profiles, etc. I'd expect it, in fact. Not that it was your intention, but it SEEMED like you were comparing the 2 pedals as to their feel, response,, cleanup, etc, in order to make an overall qualitative statement about the technology in general, tube vs Capture. Which in, and of itself, is perfectly fine, IF, it's as close to an Apples to Apples Comparison. In the video, the Tonex may have been perfect, as far as replicating the amp models captures you used. But, the only way to quantify, how well, they did, or did not, is to compare a capture of Amp A to Amp B, IF, one wants to make generalized statements of how well id does that. For instance, @18:50 you mention that you would 100% pick the Blackbird for a Blues or Jazz gig. Maybe 100% true for you, but it did imply the Tonex couldn't do that. And IMHO that is stating facts, not yet in evidence. What we can say from the video, is for you, the Balackbird fits that ton, for you, for that, better than the presets you tried in the Tonex. But, the Tonex could still, very well, fit the bill, with the right capture and Preset. Which brings us to what the Tonex Pedal's real use case is. It is designed to allow a player to capture the tone of their rigs, set how they use them, and put it in a very small, pedal sized unit. O, as a secondary use case, to house shared or bought presets of other people doing that.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Sorry, to clarify re snapshot I did mean profiling (not modelling). Look, I'm a guy making a video about something I'm interested in - it's not a public service. I wanted to do a comparison of the two bits of gear that are both claiming to sound like the same amp. We found they're quite different. I really have little interest in doing a profile vs amp AB test because there are a ton already and we know the Tonex does a good job in that area. How would it be useful, when you include the fact that the interactivity of the Blackbird EQ means that once you turn an eq or gain know, the profile will be off? I see your point, I really do - I'm also trying to make mine, which is that they're both great, fundamentally different in their approach and likely use, and that even if the Tonex can snap a great version - it still won't behave the same nor give us the same emotional response. It's also a bit of a commentary on our bias but that may not have been clear enough. By all means do the test you like and make a video about it. People are interested and would watch I'm sure.

[@franciscovalenzuela152]

Quality sound = Blackbird Versatility = ToneX

[@javascript6948]

Blackbird has more bite . Overall i like the blackbird

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Bite is a good word

[@AresJazzOfficial]

Complimenti, iscritto volentieri...

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Thanks!

[@TheMikailovich]

Nonsense comparison...capture your blackbird preamp and let's see if anyone can tell the difference

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

As you'll see if you watch the conclusion, that's not really the point.

[@gffg387]

@@JonWrightMusicTV Comparing the Blackbird with the Dumble had no point whatsoever. You were just affirming the bias about knowing that you are playing through tubes and what not.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

@@gffg387 You're having a bit of 'whoosh' moment with all this... I am literally making the point that the bias is there (for all of us) and it can be helpful to be conscious of this when deciding on gear. I'm clearly (I thought) highlighting and examining my own bias in an attempt to be honest about the two products.

[@gffg387]

@@JonWrightMusicTV Not really. First of all, I really like this channel, it's nothing against your content. So, I've read here that it's not supposed to be a comparison, but you made everything possible for this to look like a comparison. At first I kind of understood what I thought was the point. Showing differences in dynamics makes sense. Altought this is highly depedent on the capture. But then it became a comparison of a Dumble and another, very different, preamp. I've found this video in a forum, saying how digital can't do the "feel and response" of an analog equipment. So, I guess, even without being it's purpose, this video came out as a direct comparison between this 2 devices and how one does one thing that the other can't. Anyway, at this point I don't get this video. I don't know what to take from this or even if there's something to take from this. It was like someone comparing a Fender and a Marshall. You can describe the differences I'm hearing, but that's it.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

@@gffg387 Cool. To be clear on something though: it isn't me posting it in a forum and it isn't me saying that about digital vs analogue (I explicitly say it's not about that in the video!) - so if someone else is using it as evidence of something they want to say that's nothing to do with me. Now fair enough if the video is not helpful or interesting, that's totally fine. I wanted to see how the Blackbird sounded into the Amplitube IR, and wondered how it would hold up against a couple of off the shelf Tonex models. I made a video about that exploration, that's it. Maybe calling it a 'VS' video is contributing to this issue but I do want to attract views from people interested in the Tonex.

[@johnjcarter3187]

Guess you decided to keep the Kemper after all 😅

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

It was on ebay at the time of filming!

[@notalkguitarampplug-insrev784]

If you wanna really compare both, make an advanced capture of the blackbird dude. That really pointless either way 😂

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

We already know the ToneX does good captures. The conclusion of this video (as I eventually get to) is that it’s very much about perception and feelings, as well as sound.

[@heikohesse4666]

sorry, the video and playing is great but in the end "they sound different" - really? - whats the point of this kind of video?

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

I mean you can argue there's no point to the video. There's not really a 'truth' or objective conclusion to come to but if someone wants to hear the pedals, it might be interesting as part of their research. It's not my job to decide anything for anyone.

[@jasonvai4951]

such s minimal difference. tonex is more versatile.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

The latter is true for sure

[@nicolasrivera5310]

Sorry, this comp is pointless.

[@JonWrightMusicTV]

Why do you think that? (genuine question)

[@ksharpe10]

@@JonWrightMusicTV I hope he answers you.

[@shorerocks]

Not as long as we have qualified, good exchange like the comments I've seen in this video. Also, I have to admit, the waveform comparison got me thinking. And I will make a comparison myself to see how my amp recordings and their Kemper profiles (still love this thing) look.