TONEX The End of Modelers? NO: ITS MUCH WORSE than that!

TONEX Amp Simulator technologies could have repercussions throughout the music business.
0:00 Start
0:36 General first thoughts
3:16 Advice for TONEX dudes
4:14 The MODELER Boys
5:14 The real problem!
7:16 Conclusions of some...
8:01 Some of my opinion...
Profiling technology has been around for some time (at least from 2010) and it never really changed anything.
But some people think that (for example) the TONEX device is 'the end of modelers' they proclaim. But there is a much bigger underlying issue that not a single channel that I could find, not a single KZbin video ever mentioned and I'm here today to set the record straight once and for all.
No doubt there will be guitar amplifier guys that will have strong views, modeler users that have equally strong views, profiler amp guys that will claim their opinion is king and so on and so forth.
But none of these people have actually raised the point I have made in this video, in fact it was the entire reason for making this vocalized comment about all these modelers, amp simulators, IR cabs, simulated effects pedals and so much more.
If you want the no holds barred truth about profiling equipment and what it could mean to YOU as we move forward from 2023 then I IMPLORE YOU TO WATCH THIS VIDEO because no-one else is telling you what the issues really are. Does anyone even care? They will do in the future for sure.
If you agree with my thoughts then come on - support me with a subscription, thumbs up and all for the notifications - you just know that the wolves will appear to want to eat me if they could.
WANT TO VOTE? Go HERE: / @tonymckenziecom
Visit my website: tonymckenzie.com for some great reviews not on KZbin.
This video is entirely created by me with my own money so it's important for you to subscribe and thumbs up, ring the bell and click ALL to see more of my videos. Please do SUBSCRIBE to give my channel a boost and thank you for watching - I hope the video is enjoyable - its a week of my life!
(c) A B McKenzie and tonymckenzie.com 2009-2023
All Rights Reserved. All Trade Marks Acknowledged
Visit www.tonymckenzie.com for more incredible reviews or my KZbin channel
#tonex #profiler #simulator #line6 #tubeamplifier #mesaboogie #marshall #soldano #fractalaudio #kemper #boss #tonymckenzie #review #mckenzie

[@tonymckenziecom]

Don't forget I have a thing where you can vote your opinion and it would be great to see what the majority opinion actually is from higher numbers. Here: WANT TO VOTE? Go HERE: kzbin.info/door/uuNmrkOEmTPnz4Dcc-Hi5wcommunity and if you can't actually vote there then thanks for at least trying... tell me if the TONEX 'changes everything' as they say?

[@doctersound9630]

Hypothetical thought - Now I own a Tone X, how do I hear it? (Headphones? Not gonna sound like a full stack!?) do I plug it into my $3000 Studio computer? AND $5000 monitors? Does it make sound? No? Hummm odd. So I plug it into a $50,000 PA at the gig? How do I practice? $2000 FRFR Cabinets? Oh just plug it into your $6000 Marshall plexi stack?! If so….why wouldn’t I just plug in directly and skip this nonsense?!? Everyone forgets you still need Power AND Speakers on top of the $400 pedal, but I digress. Please address this issue with your audience. Someone in the spotlight needs to point out this FACT. The TONE X Costs a lot MORE than just the hardware, let alone the super computer needed to run the Amplitube program, the DAW, and plug ins (NO FX) with out latency or at least LOW latency. This is a HUGE topic EVERYONE is skipping. #justsaying

[@robhellenius9143]

Who realistically practices with a Marshal stack at home? I have no one in the house that would complain about doing that, but still I don’t. I practice what I’m not good at yet and therefore not something I would want to subject the rest of my household let alone neighborhood to. And these days I’ve yet to meet any band that isn’t practicing with a PA. Further, a $400 pedal and a couple of PA speakers(if you need to be stereo)will likely cost you about $1200 total. Compare that to a Marshal Half Stack which will cost you about $2000 ($4000 if you need to be stereo 😂)to get into the game with. Add the cost of Yamaha THR if you don’t want to get divorced. And lastly, if you were paying attention, the ToneX is a pedal. No computer necessary. Though a basic one will help make the library of amps easier to deal with. Obviously you have something that will suffice because you are typing here on KZbin.

[@paulcanz]

I’m going to try the Tonex through my Headrush monitor hope that sounds good. Yes synergy concept has been done before and I have a Randall RM 100, this seems cooler like you can have 2 modules with 2 channels and all of a sudden you have 4 channels of boutique pre amps that are designed with the corresponding companies . This seems like an upgrade from Egnator and Randall , and you can get this into a lighter weight rack . Worth looking into , no rush though. I’ll hear what it sounds like in a few weeks seeing steve Vai , he uses them , I would get different modules though.

[@mannymejia7972]

Nobody is saying amps are dead, some people are saying modeling is dead. Amp capture technology is rapidly evolving and getting closer to the real thing.

[@BartoszXIV]

the only problem with the amp captute is that any time you try to modify captured amp with the "digital potentiometers" you are loosing completely the accuracy of the capture so it is actually pretty difficult to have the sound for every occasion - this is where modeling wins in my opinion

[@tonymckenziecom]

:) I guess its like those dolls :)

[@tonymckenziecom]

@BartoszXIV correct, but that new Kemper 'liquid' update helps... Thanks.

[@iqbaln2990]

​@@BartoszXIV should be captured augmented modelling.

[@hosoiarchives4858]

They’ve been saying that for 20 years

[@CMQ01]

They’re all tools. You can use several tools to get the job done. I just use whatever sounds/works best for the situation. I love tube amp, profilers and modellers. They’re all fun!

[@martin-1965]

For recording, these modellers are brilliant. Having spent 40+ years as a guitarist trying to move from studio to studio, trying to recreate the sound I want to record in different rooms with a plethora of mics, I can now happily work away at home and send my parts to the producer with none of the hassle of the past. For live work, I'm happier with a few pedals and my Fender/Marshall Bluesbreaker combination but... getting older now, gigging is not as regular so generally the old monster tube amps are just sulking in the spare room. Amps, guitars, effects, modellers are, as you say, all tools for making music. Oh and the modeller I use? The humble Headrush MX5 with about 12 presets I use regularly. If it's good enough for the people I work with - including the BBC - then it is good enough for me. It's a brilliant, if confusing, time to play guitar and especially to be beginning as a guitarist. Although I do wonder whether part of the player I am, and many others from the 70s onwards, is down to the limitations we all faced before the massive leap forward in technology and cheap, but excellent guitars, amps, etc? There is a "tyranny of choice" out there, but thankfully it's all so bloody good, you can't go wrong whatever you buy. Anything's got to be better than a crap Avon Les Paul copy with egg slicer action and a bad transistor 50 watt amp from the local secondhand store that I started on lol :)

[@tonymckenziecom]

Ha I remember the Ned Callan :) one of my very first guitars :). Thanks.

[@nedim_guitar]

You can't do that! There are rules! You must choose, you can go all over the place. ... 😂

[@ZdenekJonas]

Playing the guitar is not just about the sound, but also the pressure, the feeling. It's an emotional thing. If I have a small flat in the centre and I just can't put a proper machine in there, then profiling is great because at least I can enjoy the sound. I wouldn't be able to use a normal machine there anyway. But on stage I want a proper amp with an amp behind me, not some FRFR.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Exactly right IMO. The feel remains doggedly extinct in the digital realm from what I see. They have a place, but not as a replacement. Thanks...

[@bassyey]

Yeah, it's a religion. It's probably fake but it's my religion. Something like that?

[@roscius6204]

I might have agreed once, and it would still be my preference but I know a lot of seasoned pros who gig without amps and sound better than you and I put together. It's not because they don't like the tube sounds, they do, it's almost completely down to practicality.

[@bobdillon1138]

Tonex is the first modeler that has made me rethink the need for tube amps.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Really? Well of course that's OK but maybe some of it can be frustrating, especially when the software won't install on industry standard equipment... tube amps just don't have that problem...

[@ksharpe10]

@@johnb4024 I got that problem in a Vox right now, it only comes or shows up once the amp is well warmed up, someone told me when it comes to tap it with a pencil to find which one it is. And where to buy some NEW tubes??

[@nolatone]

Need? Maybe. But want....

[@AramPino]

Its not a modeler….

[@bobdillon1138]

@@AramPino If you want to nit pick yeah but Its not exactly a profiler either.

[@giorgio5958]

I think tonex, due it's price, will allow more people access to profiling. In near future nux, hotone, valeton, donner etc... will go to produsce their own profiler too. In my opinion cheaper tube amps will tend to disappear, while the higher end ones will still exist (as for painting/photography, film/digital photos). For me modeling has more prospects for improvement in the future than profiling, but requires much more investment in each individual amp, costs that companies do not have with profiling, where the work is done by the user. By the way Tonex software allowed me to find my next tube amp :) (Naturally using the models made by the same user of multiple amplifiers, I don't think it's useful to use models made by different people to make this choice)

[@tonymckenziecom]

I think that the tube amps will slowly disappear too. That was really the reason for this video... and thinking about the people that build those amps... Ha great point on the Tonex software and your amp choice :) and also check the Kemper player if you get a chance... very good tones. Thanks for watching BTW.

[@philipmarsh3522]

I don't think all the other instruments are obsolete, but I sure like being able to capture my hand-built boutique amps and get the same sound and feel in a little pedal that costs $400. "Real" amps are awesome but they are also expensive, heavy and they get banged up - keeping them in the studio is an amazing thing!

[@tonymckenziecom]

Well I can agree that it's interesting stuff, but hardly groundbreaking technology as I have been doing that since 2011 with a Kemper. Sadly though, I have not a single profiler or modeler that is creating the same feel of the tube amp in question. The tones are good, but just plug in a 1959HW Marshall and be in wonder... there really is little that is the same in comparison of any of them. Of course I would be 'thrown out' of the venue :) but that's another story. Thanks for the post and for watching.

[@milankotevski1663]

​@@tonymckenziecom The problem is, you have to crank up that Marshall to 'be in wonder'. Often times, for a lot of people, it's not an option, for many different reasons.

[@Lenny_Melzer]

The topic of amp modelers versus actual tube amps isn’t so easy. In my humble opinion, I think the amp modelers have convenience and portability on their side. Obviously, someone who gigs regularly may consider that a terrific asset when trying to decide what to get. And yes, amp modeling and tone matching has come a long way over the years, so to be quite honest, the things sound not half bad! But…. (There’s always a but)! I myself own a Mesa Boogie JP2C, (with a Mesa Boogie Mark V before that) along with a pedalboard filled with all kinds of goodies. Maybe this is just silly, but when I plug into that amp and lock in my tone with the perfect effect for that moment, there’s nothing else quite like it. Sure, the amp modelers can give you all that too, but they can’t replicate the pride and passion I have for doing it all from the Mesa (and pedals) that I have working for me. The fine people at Mesa Boogie (and other amp companies) worked countless hours to get you the tones that give you goosebumps when you play! Playing out of a device that can copy something great is fine and all, but it just isn’t the same, and that’s all there is to it. Maybe I’m nuts (actually, I know I am), but that’s just how I feel. Is it a pain in the ass to carry all the stuff around (head, 2x12 cab, and pedalboard) when playing a show? Of course! But once I’m up and running, I couldn’t be happier, and wouldn’t trade it for the world. If I gigged regularly, perhaps I’d feel a different way, but I don’t. Just my thoughts. Take ‘em or leave em, but I’m with ya Tony. I hope the tube amps and companies that supply them stay around for quite some time. Cheers, and best to you and your family. Lenny Melzer

[@alamakluke]

could not have said it any better

[@tonymckenziecom]

Lenny that's it - its all about the 'feel' (and of course the tone) but I do think the feel with a real amp is quite different. The digital stuff gets sort of near but lacks that feel and tends to remain 'digital' if you get me. The real amp when played through is very much more inspirational because of that mix of the two and there is no doubt in my mind that in my case at least the best results I can muster come from real tube amps turned up with a decent guitar. And here's a question... wem all logged those tube amps for years right? Are these new guys playing guitars whimps? :) (I can hear some now - 'I can't pick it up... booo hooo') just making people smile that's all! Thanks for the great post and for watching.

[@RobNY5150]

Interesting video. I’ve been using the AFXIII for several years now exclusively for recording into Pro Tools and I’m really happy with it. I’ve owned several different modelers over the years (not Kemper or HELIX) and I think I’ve found the perfect tool for me. I’ve also owned several amps over the years including both tube and solid state. I currently own a Marshall DSL20 head going into a 2x12. All have their place. I actually prefer the tone of the AXEFXIII over the recorded tone of the Marshall, based on my experience. I’m sure the TONEX will find its place too with some people.

[@chiefpotpipe]

Same here.

[@tonymckenziecom]

The Tonex will be fine for some guys and also the Fractal stuff I agree, its all about what works for the player realy. Thanks....

[@robertmazurowski5974]

Dude Please live a 100 years in good health, you do so much good for guitar community.

[@saleseng]

Wow Tony spot on! People don’t stop to consider if there are no real amps around to sample, the sampling software will have nothing to feed off of. Unless in a bizarre twist of AI these machines start to cannibalize one another’s library of tones😮 lol.. I was using my laptop back in 2012 wwith an audio interface and an SM 57 with profiling software that was available back then, before the Kemper hardware really truly became a thing.

[@tonymckenziecom]

This is exactly my point... and Ha I really don't follow where it would end. No new amps, no speakers, no new pedals, nothing... its almost like sowing up your mouth and crawling up your own a****** :) eat yourself? weird... but I guess we live in a 'weird' world these days. I bought a Kemper just a month after launch and there was a real thing going on at that time for sure. There still is with some of them. But you know what, 'this changes everything' is a laughable joke that is repeated (or regurgitated) over and over through time and the current guys that favor the view often agree of the 'seachange' and how its the 'end of the world' which to be honest I doubt that change will 'change everything' as the guys financed to say that conclude. Great cmment and post and thanks... and for watching of course.

[@hogger88]

But does the Tonex have that amp in the room feel ? Cause my FM3 does not , and does the Tonex present you a great sound quickly ? As my FM3 does not . I spend too much time messing with options and not playing .

[@AlexGlezGcia]

I am using ToneX without cab into the effects return of a H&K 100w Solid State amp... With this setup, the feeling of real tube amp is spot on. On the other hand, if you hear through monitors/headphones using cab sims or IRs you will never get the "on the room" amp sound

[@tonymckenziecom]

Well Alex has said he can get the 'feel' from his digital gear. However, since 1009 I have only ever once achieved similarity to a real tube amp and never repeated it... and that was with the Helix first time use many years back. The tube amps win re the feel of the amp when playing and also getting great results in about 5 minutes - the software on some of the digital gear is bug ridden, lacks proper support and is cloud based which if the maker ceases the gear could be rendered useless. The tube amps have none of that in general. Just an opinion and its no more or less valid than others... and thanks for watching.

[@Guitarman007]

Modelers will take a hit in sales for the next couple years, but they will innovate and use machine learning within their modeling to go beyond just simple captures and the current modeling in the next 2-5 years. I think what's phenomenal about TONEX is it exposes more young guys/gals to what a REAL tube amp SHOULD sound and feel like, and might even drive tube amp sales as people find their favorites in profiles and say "I want that at home". I love tube amps.. as well as analog pedals. They will never go away for me, but I love that I can profile them and take a more compact/reliable version to a gig or practice and easily recall presets without having to turn dials.

[@ksharpe10]

Will the PHOTOcapture type unit Kemper/Tonex do Feedback from a snapshot type preset??? I know the modeller type does, I can do it with my vox tonelab se, just dial in higher gain/without a noise gate turned on.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Problem is, that many of the young guys will actually have NEVER even played a real tube amp. Plug in to a JMP100 Plexi, crank it through 4x12 and THEN you can say that you really know what tube amps are about... and later they tame the volumes :) Thanks for watching.

[@cscoioscscoios2768]

Tube amps aren't going anywhere. Looking forward to your Marshall video, best amp and cabinet I have and its no clone!

[@mottosierra1372]

Can i plug tonex to my amp clean channel? cause my amp does not have an effects loop

[@tonymckenziecom]

I don't see why not, turn off the IR's of course... thanks for watching.

[@KerryLiv]

Absolutely subscribed Tony! Recently ending a 30-year playing hiatus, I'm laughing and entertained by what you just described! ~ now back to remembering how to plug this guitar in.

[@tonymckenziecom]

You know, its not just about a video, while I do feel the subject I raised IS important, equally I always try and have a reasonable approach when making videos - Ha even I can laugh at my own videos - sometimes I look at them and just smile. Video content SHOULD be entertaining and hopefully I did it :) and thanks for the post and for watching.

[@KerryLiv]

@@tonymckenziecom you certainly did Tony! I look forward to becoming more familiar with your channel, what you do. It's refreshing to see someone cut through all the bologna, smile and add some light-hearted truth!

[@rickycompton2610]

Great video Tony, I’m old school it’s always been a 100 watt tube head or a 50 watt head , through a 4x12 cabinet with pedals, Marshall and Laney are my brand I’ve always been a fan of the UK craftsmanship, a well built amp will last you a lifetime if you take care of it, My thought on these products are they are a fad , let’s hope our beloved Tube amps live on.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Well I watch them. The fad I have watched since 2011 (12 years) and other than cheaper processors etc. many will tell me its all better... but the Kemper was doing it in 2011... and that says such a lot really. Is any of it 'better'? Nope... Meanwhile guys like yourself bought up on great tone AND FEEL, know the difference. Mee too and unlikely I'll be selling my amps. Thanks for watching.

[@97guitarzan]

I've had a digital studio of some kind set up since the early 2000's (had a tape setup before) and I have tried all kinds of ampsims, IR's and similar guitar tech, including the new Tonex ap. I have often used S-Gear when tracking and still do. I also mic real amps in studio and have only ever gigged with real tube amps. I like all the tech thats available today...pretty cool stuff, but have no intention of getting rid of my tube amps or my guitar pedals/effects and I also don't see any of that stuff disappearing anytime soon.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Ha you sound like me :) Thanks for the post and for watching!

[@digital-guitars-uk]

Missed your video's Tony. Hope your well mate. Straight to the point and I agree. I went 100% digital and never looked back. All the best from the Lake District 😊😊👍👍👍👍

[@tonymckenziecom]

:) I need to teach you... (NOT) :) and I trust that at least a few guys visited your free downloads for the stuff . Thanks for watching and the post...

[@IamMusicNerd]

It’s not going to be the death of modelers or amps in the next decade or so, but you can certainly see the trend if you look at a larger time frame. Many younger guitar players are not as convinced in the old school belief that classic tube amps just sound better than captures or digital modelers. I think that was the case 10-15 years ago, but the difference is getting smaller and smaller every few years. And younger players I speak to in our shop don’t hear enough of a tone difference to justify the huge price difference. More and more of them are going digital. Which is a big reason that tube amp sales have been flat while capture and modeler sales have been exploding. And that has been the case even while Axe effects, Kemper, QC, etc are still almost as expensive as a tube amp anyway. So I think the hype with the ToneX is that for the first time, you can get captures from tube amps in a device that costs 1/5th the price of those other devices. That has moved the needle a lot with a big portion of our younger guitar customers. It’s not going to change big budget musicians at all, but it does seem to be having an effect on more budget conscious young guitarists. So just keep an eye on it for the next 10 years or so as some of these young bands grow up and emerge, and then we will truly know how much impact this kind of tech really has on the old school brands.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Good points. Of course, there is no emphasis on what those tube companies might create. I doubt they will 'sit back' and just let others 'take' their tones that they have taken many years to make n the first place. Someone might/could gain with legal protection of those tones and what then? Good points and thanks for watching...

[@bartnettle]

Opposite: more Tube Amps will be bought to be profiled When Kemper was being demo'd in 2011 it was directed at Studios to profile the amp tone the Artist got in case of much later overdubs were needed and the profile could be used by the Artist on Tour to reporduce their Amp tone saving freight costs. Same still applies but someone has to create the new Amp tone everyone wants

[@dunxy]

Spot on!

[@tonymckenziecom]

I don't disagree :) but as no one ever raised the points I made the video... and thanks for the post and for watching.

[@thomassunter3717]

Love your channel, lots of knowledgeable info. BTW have you heard if Messa Boogie will be making amps for Europe any time soon? As you are in the know as they say

[@tonymckenziecom]

Sincerely I wish I was in the know about Mesa Boogie. I have no real info. In fact so bad that recently on vacation I 'found' a couple of Mesa pedals :) Can't find them here in the UK. Honestly its currently dead re Mesa. I wish they were here. Thanks for watching.

[@planetstorytime4214]

Some will never compromise their belief in analog recording, vinyl, true tube amplification, the like.....interesting concern and one I had a couple weeks ago while I wait for my Tone-X to arrive:) Great video, Tony!

[@tonymckenziecom]

Yes you're right I get it. Sometimes different guys tell me about X or Y (whatever and sound related) and often the differences are genuinely small, but other times they are clearly different - analogue to digital is one of them. I do remain a 'believer' in tube amps for sure as the 'feel' is very different to that of emulations, simulations or plainly captures of one tone from an amp that can give thousands. But I still have a need for some of the other platforms as and when I use them. But as a regular choice my first is tube. Thanks for the post and for watching.

[@mickeygiesbers8176]

I actually bought myself an Engl Steve Morse signature amp a couple of months ago after using just my Helix for years. I love my Helix and I will always use it for effects and midi switching for my amp. And I'm very happy that I can use it at home into my Two Notes Captor with a good IR. And sound wise, I don't think it matters much, the audience isn't gonna notice any difference. I got myself a tube amp, because I missed the feeling of an actual amp through my Mesa cab. I don't think amps will ever go away, all the profiles and amp models are based on actual amps so

[@tonymckenziecom]

Yes I have said many times that the audience knows generally little and does not care - they are there for the music. It's something often overlooked on the internet stuff. I also use the Helix in a rack and the floor controller for generally effects but sometimes the amp also and it's not bad. The 'feel' of the amp is hard to describe really, but again I agree with that, and its one reason I have about 20 or so... each has its own character I find, even amps with the same tubes etc. ARE different. Thanks for the post and for watching.

[@johnwaller9399]

When you mentioned the idea that the sound people are looking for are ampless. I think there’s more to think about there. Maybe that’s the biggest threat to tube amps; no one remembers or even experienced what they sound and feel like. Then the baseline becomes profilers or modelers. Anything that sounds different is different.

[@tonymckenziecom]

I agree. A few years back I bought a Marshall 1959HW (I had the originals back in early 70's) but until I actually plugged in that amp after very many years of not doing that - I had literally 'forgotten' just how that amp sounded and importantly 'felt'. It really sort of confirms what you said here, its hard to compare if you have NOT done that. I was amazed at how that amp sounds when you plug in and sound IS subjective, but I can say I have never found a single device whether modeler or profile that is 'the same' as that amp, plugged in with its 1960a speakers. I get it... simply because I DID go back and check that amp. I still own it. But when there are no new tube amp designs, no new speakers, no new pedals etc. then the crunch happens. Sadly.

[@ILoveTelecasters]

I don’t think most people think that modellers and tube amps are the same things. They serve different purposes and have their respective strengths. The reality is that carrying big amps around is a pain in the ass and products like this fix that problem

[@tonymckenziecom]

Just trust me on this... many people think the simulators are the same or better than the real amps. I certainly am not one of them, and as you say there are differences for sure. Thanks for watching.

[@bcm1621]

Been down that rabbit hole and today I am so thankful for tube amps blaring in my basement for the whole family to enjoy. Of course they appreciate my Fryette power station to prevent me from getting to carried away. Keep up the good work Tony!

[@tonymckenziecom]

Indeed... Fryette... or Fry it... :) depends on how loud and how long :) But I get it - I'm the same but have the Roland one. We can't live without them for sure.

[@supersonicnomad8437]

I believe as long as there are guitar players who want tube amps, there will be tube amps regardless of whatever non-tube wannabes there are. You're the man with the tell like it is, no bullshit plan Tony! Keep up the outstandingly, exceptiona andl excellent work!

[@s0da.-.]

I feel like in a mix no snob would be able to tell the difference between say, amplitube and whatever amp the software is emulating, however, i am a tube amp lover and an amp sim lover, so for me each one is not better or worse, its just that one has advantages over the other (like, my maz 18 sounds better than an amplitube maz 18, yet the amplitube one sounds really good too and i can play through headphones and record covers)

[@martin-1965]

@@s0da.-. Nailed it - horses for courses. It's what you think that matters and what makes getting results easier so you can focus on playing 😊

[@tonymckenziecom]

Thanks.....

[@tonymckenziecom]

@joseph-ie1sf I get it re the comment - but there generally is a difference but in a way differently described I think. The person who WILL tell the difference is the guitarist... reason being is that the 'feel' is different, and in my experience personally and chatting with others, that feel can inspire the musician to create something that otherwise might be OK but maybe might have been substantially better when the guitarist is 'in the moment' so to speak. I have had it happen with only one digital device since I have been reviewing since 2009 or thereabouts and that was the floor version of the Line6 Helix - and I recorded it at the time. If you watch the Helix review here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p2qtZ3Rvqrh3fdE Now you might or might not like the music, but that Helix really did (just once) inspire. It was near enough the first time I played it after setup and no doubt in my mind that it 'had something' going on. I never really felt that way about other gear (whatever it might have been under review) and neither did I get similar results subsequently when using the Helix floor unit. It's an interesting subject for sure... may be because I was 'excited' to try the Helix... whatever, but on a decent tube amp I remain far more inspired by the feel of the amp (and of course the mix with the tone) than when I use digital. Each has a place... and I'm no snob - I just know what works best when I use them. Thanks for the post, it was interesting.

[@sjaakiedecock]

Different generations want different gear.. I was lucky enough to buy a Engl E650 when I was 18 so I could play live and practice with a 'real' tube amp. But I couldn't affort a 2200 euro Dual Rectifier... Still can't! So getting great tones at a small price is great for creativity and new guitar players to start with great gear as well... I think it's great that great tones are becoming more affordable! Sorry for my bad english ;) Cheers from the Netherlands!

[@tonymckenziecom]

Yes I get that of course... check the review I just posted on the Laney... it is a surprising little amp with a twist...

[@PickcutStudios]

Thanks for this sir! I always look up to older people who have actually heard tube amps in a live stage, went to woodstock, etc. Kudos on adopting new tech sir, good to know both sides from a more experienced person. Im 34yrs old BTW hehe Just owned my first tube amp last 2022.. Cheers!

[@tonymckenziecom]

Ha many have not used the real stuff I agree - and the difference is quite incredible. About 18 months ago I bought a Marshall 1959HW head. I already had the cabs. First time I had played one of these for years and it was instantly recognized as being why I bought that amp head. The simulators actually do not come near to it, its sound or its feel when you play one. Its why I keep my tube amps really. I missed Woodstock sadly (just a bit too young really and wrong country) but would have loved to have been there. Thanks for the post and for watching.

[@DrDrake_Ramore]

I totally feel your frustration. At last in my guitar playing journey, I’ve got a collection of three valve amps - A Fender Princeton 65, VOX AC15C1X, and a Marshall JTM Studio 20 watt combo. And now I feel like they’re becoming redundant with all the new tech. It pains me to have to now think of selling this gear on, to be in line with the ‘evolution’. Great channel, Tony, really like your content.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Thanks for the kind words. Don't sell the amps... you might well regret it later. I have seen, used and owned most simulators and while the 'fan boys' love them, ask the tube guys what they think and its a different story. The 'feel' is generally missing from the simulators. Nearest? probably Kemper. Look cool amps there too. :) Thanks for watching.

[@Docksidestudio1]

From my point of view everything has “changed” as Tonex has made owning an amp profiler affordable. That’s the point for me

[@tonymckenziecom]

Scarily - there's already a free one! And 'that changes everything again'. :) Welcome to the merry go round. but don't forget the guys that lose their jobs because some device (or software) clones the amp tone that took years to create... its the one thing every one 'forgot' about. Thanks for the post and for watching...

[@chiefpotpipe]

I agree. You cannot trust KZbin influencers when it comes to gear. Look at the early Quad Kotex hype. Over promised, under delivered.

[@tonymckenziecom]

That it seems is true sadly and has been for a long time. I started this channel in 2009 because of all of that. I tend to 'break them down' in to what are the following categories: 1. Sales Videos 2.Fans of the gear 3. Argumentative heathens (yes really) 4. Guys that have never actually owned the gear 5. The rest (add your own reasons here). I honestly know very few out there that do similar to what I do (I guess) but I started to create my own reviews because I was absolutely sick of the 1-5 points I mentioned here when all I wanted was a truthful reflective opinion so I could buy whatever it was or not. These days I never trust reviews its sad to say. A good point and thanks for watching.

[@chiefpotpipe]

@@tonymckenziecom I agree. 95% of KZbinrs reiterate the EXACT same scripted bullet points of any given new product. Not to mention use crappy factory presets and uninspired playing.

[@planzed.2]

Couldn’t agree more man, great video & well said. Hope you’re well!

[@tonymckenziecom]

Thanks! You too! Yep still here :) Thanks for watching...

[@chasinggain]

I really enjoy the hot take Tony. I agree with your sentiment. One thing the digital crowd have in common is that they are all chasing *Tube amp* tones. Give your money to the people who actually designed and produced the legendary tones we all love and chase.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Exactly.

[@crsantin]

I still have a couple of tube amps and love them. But I also have a Helix and I enjoy using it quite a bit. It sounds good and feels good. It’s not quite a tube amp but it works well and I don’t have to burn through tubes just playing in my basement. My 5150 head costs about $500 to retube now. I’ll always have a tube amp but I like modellers too.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Yes I'm a bit like that too. I have both types of gear. Having said that, of the two technologies I do own, the modelers (or profilers if you will) I do tend to sell more often once I have 'had enough'. It always pains me to let a tube amp go... thanks for watching.

[@aipsong]

Good video - all ages of technology are reflections of the needs and desires of their time - it would be a sad world if we banish our memories.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Imagine the cost of the workforce if all that came to fruition? Scary...

[@MashaT22]

People are saying only older people are buying actual amps anymore. I don’t think so. I really think Amos and digital tech can coexist. There’s a time and place for using both. It’s exciting that you can take any tone in your pocket, but it’s just not the same experience as having a real deal amp - and not just tube amps, but solid state too. You just dial it in quickly and get to playing faster. That’s not possible with all this tech. You have to go digging through profiles and tones to find good examples of just what you’re after, and even then, you still have to plug into something - a cab, combo amp, PA, headphones, etc. e people supposed to hear the music without having the old school solutions? I can see where a TONEX and other tech can help people with limited money and space. I can see where it would be nice for gigging artists not to have to lug giant pieces of gear to venues. But overall, the TONEX is only as good as it’s examples and you’re gonna need to amplify the sound because the TONEX is essentially like a CD player without speakers. Gotta have a way to hear the profiles. Amps aren’t going anywhere, folks. 😉 😊

[@tonymckenziecom]

Sadly... I'm older (ho ho ho) and I buy lots of digital gear AND tube amps, and guitars, and pedals and... fill in the dots :) You are exactly right IMO re the digital stuff. Honestly I'm not biased either, when the digital gear gets to the same place I'll be the first to agree, but it's still off a while I think. Amplified digital? Kemper. :) Those sound pretty good for 12 years - but that's a 12 year old device... surely past its sell by date. I expect to see a new Kemper sometime before they stop making the chips! Thanks for watching and the post.

[@AA-ih6kt]

tony..will you get the new headrush prime profiler?

[@tonymckenziecom]

I did and I reviewed it on my channel... Thanks.

[@mechaxofficial5048]

I wouldn’t fret (lol). This product just made stuff available to people that may have previously not been able to afford some of the equipment. Tube amps are great, Helix are awesome, Fractal, Neural, yadda yadda. This is a product for people like me that wanted a little more than what the Walrus ACS1 or the Strymon Iridium offer for our $$$. IK didn’t launch some preemptive strike or trash talk anyone or any company as far as I know. Unfortunately, I’m getting the same vibes as the in the car world. You got a bunch of folks driving their Porsche and Maserati stuff and hate that anybody found joy in something that they didn’t have to get a loan for. “You think they’re behind you but they’re ‘bout to lap you.” -J. Santana

[@tonymckenziecom]

You should buy a PRS MT15 (going on eBay for about $500 or less) and the sound I have to say is entirely real! Actually the reason I created the videos from here, is the INCREDIBLE amount of hype put behind this TONEX unit by YT reviewers - and sadly, generally they were given the units. The result? Huge and incredible hype of the product over and over ad infinitum. I tend to call those 'sales videos' and not actually proper reviews. Go and watch them and you'll hear the 'this changes everything' and 'modelers are dead' and a host of other diatribe that in reality is pretty meaningless. Honestly I don't think that sort of thing is helpful to people that want to see a product without the bias and hype - just the product... It's why I made the video review and later added this video to highlight what could happen (not particularly with the TONEX itself, but with that technology of profiling) and people could actually lose jobs. For me, that really is an underlying aspect of the technology that no one ever addressed anywhere. And YES! I get it re Porsche etc. as I have personal experience of that. Thanks for the post and for watching.

[@lyleanderson5407]

Great content Tony, and here's my take. I love pedals and enjoy integrating pedals and processors for fun. As long as you apply MOORE's law you can generally wait it out and save a great deal of money, and have the massive library of sounds from online content and updates. I don't have the time to chase every possible tone and combinations so I'll let the professional take that role and just enjoy playing. Keep the videos coming!

[@tonymckenziecom]

Yes that is often a convenience choice really. And I get that for sure. I even play around with the pedals and digital gear myself too. Thanks for watching...

[@peek4b00h]

Good video. I think most of us can see that "infomercial guitar Twitter" has evolved to include the "buy my captures" guys. Not a bad thing really, but the level of hype is unwarranted. The value prop that the ToneX offers me is that I can walk away from my computer desk and practice in a different part of the house while keeping the tones I have been using with the ToneX software. I chose ToneX because it's affordable and offers me a chance to experience different types of tones. I work at my computer about 30 hours a week and am pretty sick of sitting here tbh. I have learnt though that in most cases a good headphone tone is "anything with a spot of stereo reverb". :)

[@tonymckenziecom]

Yes the marketing of spin offs is almost as irritating as the hype of the digital gear. I'm sure there are guys, and like yourself, they can work with the technology - and thats good, whatever works, and the comment about the reverb has so much truth in it from the digital stuff I have seen over the years that without reverb (or any of the other very highly level applied effects) on the presets the stuff would sound rather less inviting. Yes I get sick of the screen (I do also at least 30 hours at work with one) and that's without the YT stuff... love the handle too :) Thanks fr watching...

[@zeppo20]

I think an option is Bluguitar Amp 1, (and similars) I have one, is really good. Now I´m modeling it, so when I record at home I don´t mess with cables anymore. Have you tried those amps? Regards.

[@tonymckenziecom]

I have reviewed the BlueGuitar Amp1 some while back. A friend (Awesome John - a Pro Player) commented that the tones on that unit were incredible and for someone like him (RIP AJ) to say that was a big thing. Check it out on my channel and you'll probaly like it... thanks.

[@TheGuitarNerdShow]

Hi Tony, I love your videos and hearing your take on things. Over the years I've tried various different amp technologies - I'm a sucker for a Marshall and a 4x12 (or two) hitting me in the back. That said, though, I simply cannot play these amps, at the volume they need to really open up, on gigs. I've even had issues with the volume of a 22 watt Deluxe Reverb. That actually is what led me to check out the Kemper 5 years ago. At first I hated it (I switched to in ears at the same time - never got along with those), but when I started making my own profiles, I warmed up to it considerably. Fast forward 5 years, I've used a Kemper on every gig I've played since then (roughlly 220 gigs per year). While I'll readily admit there's nothing like standing in front of a nice fat tube amp and speakers, on 90% of the gigs I play, I simply don't have that option. For the last 3 years, I've run my Kemper power Rack into a 4x12 loaded with Kemper Kone speakers. While they're technically a FRFR speaker, they definitely have a different feel to them. I recently switched to a LIne 6 Powercab 212 and the Kemper Stage. To be honest my stage sound as well as FOH have never been better. I have a nice collection of tube amps and cabs (though not quite as robust as yours...yet) and when recording here at the house, those are my go-to. For recording I use a 4-mic setup; a 57, a 421, an SE Electronics Ribbon and a JZ Mics Condenser. I do this to try and capture that 'in the room' sound to my recordings (you can hear examples of this on my Studio Tour pt 2 video) and it does kind of work for that. Last week I made a profile of my modified JCM2000 DSL100 to see how close the Kemper would come. Surprisingly it pretty much nailed the sound. Sitting in front of my studio monitors with the amp and cab in the other room, I can't tell much of a difference in either the sound or feel. Does it match the feel of sitting in front of the amp? No way. Does it match the feel of sitting in the control room playing the mic'd up amp through studio monitors? If I'm being completely honest I gotta say it's darn close. The video of that process and result are at kzbin.info/www/bejne/qoqsqWCkrN6VoK8 It's not perfect but on a live stage or in a mix, it'd be hard to hear the difference. As for live use, perhaps it's because I've grown used to playing in my control room through my studio monitors (HEDD Audio Type 30's) but when I'm gigging, I'm getting that tone, response and, most importantly, it does feel good. That said, I will still use my tube amps for recording, when I can. If I'm recording something late at night, I've got no problem turning to the Kemper. Another point I wanna make is it's through various modeling amps that I discovered that I really dig the sounds of certain amps and have, as a result, purchased the amps. Maybe I was living under a rock for 30 years, but I'd never played through an old Bassman, Bandmaster or even a Twin. Having used their Digital counterparts in modeling I became aware of the different little things these amps do and now have all of these Vintage amps. I sitll haven't found 'my' Plexi though I'm sure it's just around the corner. Sorry, Neighbors LOL!!!! Keep up the great work Tony!

[@tonymckenziecom]

Its a tale that even I have been down - and am still following. I bought my Kemper February 2012 and instantly made a video of it (its still on my channel). It was an amazing product and technology. And really it still is. You hit the nail on the hear re the 'feel' of the tube amp is different somehow. I find that the tube amp (the right one not the wrong one) can be very inspiring and really can't pin any of that down further than that 'feel'. I use the tube amps of course also, and recently on the SDE-3000 EVH review I plugged in the Kemper player with profiles I completed of some of my amps many years ago... some I sold. And there it was from the output of the SDE right in to the desk and it sounded fine. Feel was different but also I put that down to the reality of I don't personally use SDE-3000's but it was interesting to look at. You made a very thorough and decent post above and I thank you for doing that... its great to hear your points as they are all relevant IMO. When I created this video, the ultimate thought behind it all (I do sort of indicate it towards the end) was for the tube amp guys who could easily end up losing their jobs. The truth is, I think, that volumes of tube amps are declining although they still sell, but maybe not enough to sustain some companies. We only need to think about Mesa Boogie... sold, Marshall... sold, and whose next? Well I honestly don't know, but my guess is that will continue moving forward. I makes me think hard about it all. Maybe guitarists will all end up 'capturing' the 'same old' amps over and over in search of 'that tone' in their heads. Ha we have all done that - chasing the tone, and scarily, I sincerely believe we never really do get it. Just for the record one of the best recorded tones I ever got was on an amp everyone ridicules... the Marshall JCM2000 (TSL100). The reality was, that it was ridiculed because of unreliability, but fit an new board and it was (and is) as solid as it gets. The tone was awesome. Search for 'Lightpipe AI' by tony mckenzie or 'Metropolis' by tony mckenzie and you might find them they are out there and see what you think of those tones with just an Ibanez RG550LTD, an TSL100 and a 1960a cab... that was it! :) In any case hey thanks for that post and for watching... it is appreciated.

[@truthtorpedo99]

I think amp modellers, etc. are very convenient and good to record in a DAW. No need to mess with micing up and all that. They are also good for bedroom players who can play thru headphones. The real tube amps are more for serious users and professional musicians and studios They all have their place

[@tonymckenziecom]

I agree, but I would not like to see amp makers, speaker makers and pedal makers all get closed down? That was the serious point behind the video - and the boys with 'this changes everything' are possibly (likely) wrong :) Thanks for watching.

[@ksharpe10]

@@tonymckenziecom Hey if solid state did not KILL the tube amp. what chance does Computer/solid state have?? What worrys me more is all this Silent Stage trend going on. no amps on stage, that is really ridiculous, the stage is not a STUDIO. WEIRD. And yet most drummers still prefer acoustic drums/cymbals.

[@ChrisJones-ht9zn]

The Tonex is ok. That’s as far as I am prepared to say after using one for the last few days. It doesn’t inspire me to go back to it though, in fact, I have decided to send mine back. A few reasons. Firstly, I a/b’d the Tonex against my Dream 65 pedal. Some of the tones were pretty close to be fair but the Tonex doesn’t have Dream’s reverb. The amp is called a Deluxe reverb for a reason, and UAD’s sounds awesome. Secondly, I ran a few pedals into both units. The Dream did remarkably well at keeping the feel, the Tonex just felt compressed, didn’t handle the dynamics of output volume changes from the pedals. Thirdly, I like to tweak on the fly when recording guitars but felt that the Tonex eq just wasn’t that great. More importantly, when changing the gain on the Dream you hear what you expect to hear, as you would with the amp. Changing the drive on the Tonex just doesn’t give you these subtle characteristics of the amp, and how could it? It doesn’t know what they are. If anything, I would say that amp profiling has had its day because this is what it is and always will be. Modelling software on the other hand will continue to get better and better. So, in summary, Tonex will get you some decent tones but it isn’t close to the complexity and just pure joy of a decent valve amp. I think the market for Tonex probably includes a fair few players who have never used a decent valve amp. For those that have, it ain’t even close.

[@iamjiroe]

Also, I have played guitar for 20 years, have owned tube amps, have toured w tube amps.. I am also an audio engineer and producer… have worked at big studios in L.A, so I feel like I can judge this and to me your last sentence is wrong. Tonex sounds amazing.. it just sounds to me like you do not know very well how to get any sound you want w any tools you have in front of you.

[@tonymckenziecom]

I agree that the Dream 65 Pedal was great re the 'feel'. Something that many/most devices of digital nature simply don't extol. Recently I carried out a limited survey re Tube Amps and are they doomed so to speak. There were over 200 entries and the No they are king response was actually about 83% the rest falling back to digital in one way or another.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Hey Jiroe, Chris was making a point... which he is entitled to on my channel without being nasty to other visitors. Me? I like to see reasonable comments without personal criticism like "it just sounds to me like you do not know very well how to get any sound you want w any tools you have in front of you" and honestly, for someone that has 'been around', and with your great ability, that sort of thing is not really befitting. It's OK to apologize to Chris if you want to and thanks for watching.

[@iamjiroe]

@@tonymckenziecom there’s nothing wrong w my comment, I did not insult, I did not use any swear word, if you want to read too much into it… go ahead. I said what I said. As a professional to me his response sounds like he doesn’t get the concept which I was taught from the very beginning: achieve any sound w anything you have in front of you. There’s nothing nasty about my comment. It would be nasty if I was insulting him or something like that.

[@BillySoundFarm]

The capture tech being more prevalent is cool too see, it does not mean modelers are dead (profiles and models are not the same thing), people are never going to stop buying tube amps, people with money are most definitely not going to stop buying tube amps ever, This is just more of the same, but more is better so thumbs up to that. It's great, as the consumer, to have so many choices.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Well in a way I agree. The Tonex (no matter what some say) is really a consumer device aimed at the retail market and not at the professional musician. Good point. Thanks for watching.

[@rocinblues]

Great video, I bought the ToneX and have had a number of other "amps" in a box of some type for decades. Why, I like trying new gear. Things to remember with a one of these 1. if you play metal you'll have a stronger positive opinion regarding these devices because the do the power cord tone ok, they do the stepdown tuning ok, and the detorted thing ok. Where there is a utter fail is with anything in a clean tone. UA 65 Dream pedal was close, but is only about 60% of the real tone. One thing that tube guys like myself have to realize is that "sim/ir's/apps players are going for a "recorded" tone from their guitar that they can repeat over and over with consistency. What you miss when you fully accept that "recorded" mono tone is that tube amps push the air, you can feel the sound, and some refer to it as the tubes "breathing". I have really tried giving this digital thing a good go, but man they really need to address the clean tones. Lastly, it may not happen today or tomorrow, but if you use software "ANYWHERE in the chain to drive tone at some point you WILL run into latency issues, you just will and btw debugging latency issues can really suck.

[@tonymckenziecom]

A very good post and thanks for that - you're right re the 'air' factor and it makes things literally 'feel' different. Thanks for watching.

[@lowtonezf104]

Modelers and profilers are great for Making recording easy and accessible. But some of the coolest recordings turn out great because of the limited gear. Turn the knobs on the guitar/amp, use the pickup selector. The more complicated the gear. The more time I take endlessly obsessing over tone. A real amp and cab/ some effects. It’s plug and play and I get to do what I love, play the damn guitar

[@tonymckenziecom]

Right on! and thanks for watching...

[@Laburnus]

I think in general the amps will eventually sell less overtime. And it's not just because of the profilers. The profilers can only sell when they have something to profile. Modelers... In general the modelers try to emulate something that is on the market, but there were some attenpts to model out a sound that isn't based on a real amp. What will definitely hit the amp sells are the daw plugins. I don't know how many amps are sold to bedroom guitarists, but for sure that public will gravitate towards plugins. Unlike a tonex, you can actually steal a plugin, like any other piece of software. I mean of course you could steal a tonex u it from the store, but that probably would not go without notice. Now stealing a piece of software is waay waay easier. And you can be 100% sure, that among the population of bedroom guitarists, that will be the way to resolve their lack of amp problem. What it means is that amp manufacturers will focus on actual musicians more. And on that topic, lets be real, a person who can afford a tonex, was never a target of manufacturers like soldano or bogner or diezel. Only the really big names in the business were carrying these to the shows. Rest of the bands just used them in the studio. The guys who will take a hit are for sure marshall, bugera, fender cause they have a quite big portfolio for bedroom guitarists. I can only guess they will just shift production to make frfr speakers, cause at some point the bedroom players will want to play a gig or two, and they will have to amplify the signal from the profiler or the modeler. What is definitely good about profiling devices is that if you can do a good profile of an rare amp that you have in your collection, then you can take that sound into the concert venue. The morr profiesional guys already did that with kemper. So if the audience can hear a sound they could listen to on the LP, i guess that is a win win situation The audience listens to better audio, the musician does not have to carry an expensive rare piece of gear.

[@peek4b00h]

Agree in the context of existing players. But I do wonder if today's 12 year old with a gigging and recording future ahead of them will see valve amps as a logical progression as they grow. Will they want to go from lightweight tech that does the job to lugging amps around? Time will tell.

[@tonymckenziecom]

I think there are very many 'bedroom' guitarists actually, far more that many would disclose. And maybe they might flip to software, but there still remains a difference. Ha using the plugins without buying them I'm sure that goes on all the time... just as software theft has since at least when I started in computers in 1981. Very few actually solve that. On those amps lets not forget Vox, Friedman, Diezel, H&K, Mesa Boogie and very many more too. I have a Kemper since Jan 2012... and the 'profiles' are not really the same as a real amp... and Kemper's recent 'liquid' release of an update that makes the knobs similar confirms it took over 12 years to do that simple enhancement. But you are right in many ways of course; but the real test is what does the audience think of the tones? IMO many of them don't even know or care... but there again, play with an 'off' sound or feel and make no mistake the musician will undoubtedly not play as well and would be less inspired. It's all down to what the musician feels themselves and 'is it worth' actually having a Bona fide sound. Thanks for this great post and the video was geared around getting guys to do that...

[@michaelkennedy2190]

I have tube amps, modelers, many pedals. I’m waiting for my Tonex pedal to come in. 150 amp captures at your feet. Looking forward to trying it out. It is great technology. I’m 61 years young. I don’t play in a band. Use what you want! It’s a great time to be a guitarist!!! Ok you have your beloved amp, cab, and fx. Hopefully you have people to help you move it around. You have to mic it up to play your gig or record it. The tonex pedal solves a lot of issues. Play any amp out there bye loading it on to your pedal via computer. Most people can’t even tell the difference if it’s a real amp or a capture. Especially in a mix most people don’t care as long as it sounds good!!! Isn’t that all that matters good tone. And having fun playing. Some people want to have a huge tube amp collection. Others want to have great tone!! There’s no right or wrong. I prefer to have all the choices I can!! I have thought about selling my amps! I don’t even use them anymore. But you always take a beating when you sell gear!!

[@tonymckenziecom]

You SHOULD check the Kemper player... it has 22000 profiles of amps that are very good. Build is excellent too... thanks for the info on your setup too and thanks for watching.

[@giantsofold6567]

Great vid...nice to see another opinion for a change. The band Morbid Angel recorded one of their guitars solos with a glass lightbulb casing around the mic...techniques in the studio playing with REAL gear create novel music that stands the test of time. The worst thing for me is modellers and the like are killing unique music. Hendrix, Gilmour, Mudhoney, Entombed...all created unique sounds by messing with their hardware and started whole genres of music which we now strive to emulate. For an amateur bedroom player like me though modellers give freedom and chance to muck around doing different things on limited budgets (I'm using a Digitech rp500 -£50 used) does what I need it to in an okay way...means I can make psychedelic rock or slam death metal and save myself a few grand!

[@tonymckenziecom]

An important point for sure and one I did not mention. Thanks for watching too.

[@jjshouseofjams522]

glowing bottles of tone forever

[@tonymckenziecom]

Yippeee :) Thanks for watching.

[@SenseiKreese]

Something you didn't touch on - the amp modeller models the whole amp. A ToneX capture is just tiny snapshot of an amp at certain settings. If you deviate from that, then the sound of the original amp is gone. I don't think this has occurred to many people just yet, because they're so busy having orgasms at cloning any amp. I see them in the social media comments, they're thrilled at have snapshots of dozens and dozens of rare boutique amps. These people clearly don't write or record music because you don't use 100x amps when you make an album. You usually use 1 or 2... 3 or 4 at most. These people are just gear nuts frothing over the latest shiny thing and are more interested in collecting tones than writing and recording music. I just recorded a release with my Helix. I used an ENGL with ENGL IR's for my high gain tones, and I used a Roland Jazz Chorus running through the ENGL IR's for my cleans. Two amps. Not 100x. Two. I think modelling is here to stay, and the best route for digital amps will be hybrid units that do both. Clone an amp if you want, but have full models of actual amps. Most guitarists don't actually understand much about audio engineering and guitar tone. They already had unlimited tones with their Helix's etc, because they could use IR's which simulate mics and cabs - the biggest part of where the tone comes from.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Exactly... Thanks. I own a Helix rack and like that but some of the other stuff... nah not for me. But I do like the real deal tube amps too :). Thanks for watching.

[@onefleetingglimpse]

Hi Tony, I wanted to thank you for your videos and insights. I recently read the news about Marshall selling the company, and to be honest, I wasn't surprised. I started playing guitar watching Jimi Hendrix, Paul Kossoff, AC/DC and all those artists who heavily relied on a wall of Marshall amps. Jim Marshall was known as the father of loud for his loud amplifiers, but with the rise of in-ear monitors, silent stages, modelers and amp profiles, the demand for their traditional products has decreased. While I understand the need for innovation, I do find it sad that the sound of such iconic amps can be copied and sold without any sort of compensation to the brand that invested time and money to create it. To me, it's similar to duplicating an original tape and selling it at a fraction of the price. While modelers require a lot of work and knowledge to be created, anyone can make a profile with little effort (I'm not focusing on the quality of the profile here, just the concept). I believe it's important that regulations are in place to protect these brands and allow them to continue to innovate. What are your thoughts on this?

[@tonymckenziecom]

You hit the nail on the head! Some who post don't even 'get it' that it harms other business indeed in the way you describe. Some of those (mostly) paid reviewers all proclaim 'its the end of modelers' for example, but little do they even relate to that meaning' that its really the end of someones job' if you believe them. You got it though - basically as I did when I watched all that diatribe or maybe you got the point from this video. It really is sad when those type of comments from people that should know better (reviewing gear) almost 'sell their souls' to proclaim 'this changes everything' and similar cliché comments that don't actually further the product one iota. In fact, my guess is that it turns off many potential buyers from looking further. I guess they don't care, after all they really do it all to just make money. The regulatory aspect IS or should be a consideration I agree. The profiling is not exactly the same (if you try one) but as I said in the video - they all say 'its the same' and it is or it is not - they can't have their cake and eat it too. Personally I think its not the same as an amp... compare one to a Marshall 1959HW - anyone that says 'its the same' is having a laugh. So OFG great to hear your comments - and appreciated that you made them. And thanks for watching.

[@onefleetingglimpse]

Thank you Tony, I really appreciate you taking the time to reply. I agree on every single word. Unfortunately there’s plenty of people who prioritize rapid monetary returns above all else, even if it means endangering other brands in the process... But you’re totally right and thank you for sharing your amazing interview with Terry. You know? The feeling of a real Marshall head that gets warm as the tubes heat up and fills a room with its rich sound is something that can't be replicated by digital technology. We've been lucky enough to experience it firsthand. There's just something special about the way that a real amp interacts with the air in a room and the way that it responds to the touch of the fingers, including the pleasure of interacting with the knobs. This is something that can't be replaced by digital simulations, and it's a reminder of the beauty and power of the analog technology. Let's not forget the satisfying feeling of the air being moved by a stack and, last but not least, the iconic logo that represents decades of rock and metal history :)

[@albertbatchelor5882]

Love your channel. Tube amps will never die out. They are amazing. I have a Kemper in my studio. Which was a great investment. Still being supported and updated for over 12 years. The biggest update just recently with usb recording and liquid profiling. As good as the Kemper is and its my favorite when used with professional profiles, like from Tone Junkie. But real tube amps have a harmonic depth that I have never heard reproduced by any of the digital units. And I don't believe they'll ever be able to reproduce the harmonic depth of the sound.. I couldn't live without my Marshall, Fender & Vox amps. But I could live without my Kemper. It's really that simple. Great Channel, Great content, very interesting and entertaining, love your channel. Keep Rockin' 🙂👍👍👍

[@tonymckenziecom]

Thanks for the kind words. I also have a Kemper too :) going back to January 2012 (I think it was). I had the handbag version first and later flipped to a rack - I still have it and updated it to powered (that's on one of my videos on my channel). I tend to like Kemper - but the hardware is a little old now and I've been expecting an 'update' for some time but seen nothing... At the age of about 12 years it is clearly mainly yesterdays hardware, but I don't really hold it to task for that as it certainly does work. One of the bigger complaints of the technology was always the move a knob and it changed the amp from the original, and of course the claimed liquid profiling corrects that they say. I have not yet spent time on the liquid thing, but I will. And as you say since buying it, I have to say that it has been exceptional value, although the initial purchase price was/is a bit high for technology that is older. No matter... a good device. Tube amps I found always have a different 'feel' when you play them... there is a difference and that for me, when I do want to write new music is a very good sound that certainly inspires you to write IMO better music... but it's all subjective of course. Thanks for that post, its always nice to read a post that offers others good information as yours certainly did. And thanks for watching too.

[@albertbatchelor5882]

@tonymckenziecom Thanks for responding. I've seen almost all your videos. I seen the one where you added power to your Kemper. I was surprised how little was inside there..lol. I also only use my tube amps when writing, mainly my Marshall. Playing a real tube amp does help inspire song writing. I found the guitar I play does also. I play and write totally different on my Telecaster than if I'm playing my Les Paul. I would love to see a video that shows how to actually use boost and overdrive pedals with a tube amp (Marshall) I've been building guitar pedals for about 7 years now. My whole 2nd floor is my Recording Studio and one room is my Pedal Building. A Naga Viper Treble Booster sounds amazing with a Marshall. Pushing an edge of break-up to a heavy rhythm or lead sound. You can lower the frequency on the Naga Viper all the way down to full frequency. So you can get it to work perfectly with most amps. The Boss SD-1 was also great for pushing the Marshall. There are so many younger musicians out there that don't understand how pedals are used. They buy a pedal based on the sound on a KZbin video and are disappointed when they don't get the same sound. Because the guitarist doing the demo didn't explain that the demo is done with a tube amp and you will not get the same results pushing a transistor amp. Or that the pedal was dead quiet because they used a noise gate. It would be nice to see some pedal demo that reveals the truth, the sound of your amp and guitar is the bulk of your sound. A boost and overdrive just enhance the sound you have. That's one of the main things I love about your channel, your honesty. If somethings not right, you say it. It's very refreshing. Wish there was alot more of that going around. Keep Rockin Your The Best!!!🙂👍👍👍

[@notalkguitarampplug-insrev784]

I think it’s gonna be like that = - amp modelers claiming to «sound like » real amp will die or offer some neural network profiling like ToneX or NAM (the Rolex of machine learning today) - high end modelers will offer «perfect virtual amps » which will differs from classic ones and offer « unlimited » tweaking and new amps nobody has heard or play before - real amp will become like sport cars. Some passionate rich dudes will collect them and pay a lot for a fewer production ones, and capture modelers brand will buy them also to sample them like IK multimedia already does.

[@iamjiroe]

I think amps will not die, what will die is big amps and we will see more small not heavy 25w amps that look cute at home 😅 and sound cool. People still buy those amps and I think they’ll continue to do so

[@tonymckenziecom]

Good points... but I can buy a used PRS MT15 for less than 400? Those tube amps are not for the rich only and honestly, I do think the tube still has it currently. But great point and thanksfor watching.

[@edtlonsway]

I think where this gets interesting is serious bands wanting to record with real amps but tour with modelers. They are easy to set up and less finicky than the rigs of old. Metallica, for example, uses AxeFX III now for live shows (as do a lot of other touring acts). They record with the Boogies but found the Fractals far easier for Road Life and you'd never know live. Now you compound this with hobbyists, like myself, using a fractal and not buying new amps (Although that is more due to keeping the wife happy). Demand will drop for $2k+ tube amps and some manufacturers will not survive. I still think there is a strong base for them but we will see the market retract overall for tube amps.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Interesting points of course. Bearing in mind it's 'unlikely' that Metallica do anything except walk on play and walk off is an interesting aspect that certainly does not see them arguing that the 'gear is too heavy - these darn tube amps have to go' sort of thing... yes maybe Metallica are less bothered about their live tones? or worse, are more bothered about their recordings and don't care about anything else? Ha the more I think of this its a VERY good question... Hey Mr Hetfield.. (I'll call him that just to be safe!) tell me the truth why you do it? Ha... I'm having fun of course... just joking around, but it IS an interesting point. Thanks for watching too...

[@angrybalkon1471]

Man, you're damn right!

[@mauricegaddin293]

Thanks Tony for all of your fantastic reviews, the most comprehensive on the net. In then end there are always different strokes for different folks. The sound of a tube amp is fantastic and will always be. Some solid state amps are also very good and responsive. Digital technology has and will continue to advance rapidly, greater power in the hardware will allow, more accurate captures and modelling to happen. A capture is generally a snapshot with the ability to modify something even if it's liquid.. however it is not the same as analogue that has infinite or close to infinite possibilities. I see a place for all options. I do not see why more accurate algorithms in modelling and due to power why these cannot emulate components and amplifiers more accurately than today so it can complement captures. I definitely see that there are generally fewer new tube/valve amps in stores an even artists playing live with these, even used.. A lot of the tube amps now have digital options for recording and playing. Who generally can play loud at home anyway I know I cannot generally. Again there is the question of whether you are a truly creative original person and create you "own" sound/tones versus copying others, again a personal choice. So yes analogue amps will still exist and generally have hybrid capabilities, some more than others. The issue is many people seem to chase "old" tones via their instruments, IMO would be great to see much more originality. But yes I see a role for analogue with tubes, modelling and captures.. sorry for the essay..

[@tonymckenziecom]

Great post and very fair comment. I watched a Video recently from Line6 and Sweetwater, where they were interviewing the designer of the Helix. In that video the designer said that the sound 'inside the helix' was EXACTLY the same as the amp, but (and it was a big point) that once ot left the Helix, then they catogorically confirmed that they CANNOT simulate the result of a tube amp and speakers etc. with any simulator. Its a pity that interview is not thrown to the forefront of the technology. That designer really is no idiot for sure, and my guess is that ALL simulator designers know the same truth, they just won't say it. But there he was, very open about it and that was a very interesting interview. He did say that basically it was nigh on impossible to be 'the same' but in the music sector there are many that really don't want that info out there, they want the idea that they can create the 'same' result for less than £400.00 (IT Multimedia et. al.) to be the 'norm' and IMO that type of manufacturing mentality (actually from the industry in general) is misleading at best and a downright lie at worst. Sadly. Some will say 'Tony's biased', but in reality I'm more of a realist, and after looking after little black box after little (or very big) black box I still never did find one that is 'the same' as the results of a tube amp with speakers in flight. Thanks again for that post and for watching.

[@RobertoMilano]

I agree with you. But I also believe that the tube amplifier is absolutely essential for a guitarist who wants to experiment with sounds. Profiling is done on real amplifiers. And a profile, at the moment, consists only of a "snapshot" of the amplifier with precise settings. All the infinite variables that can be extrapolated from an amplifier cannot be contained in a handful of profiles. However it is likely that the cost and convenience of digital will greatly reduce the purchase of tube amplifiers. It already happens. But what's the point for an amateur guitarist to buy a 5,000 euro Friedman if he then has neither the possibility nor the practical tools to exploit it? Who can push a 100 watt Plexi around the house and record with a microphone? Yes, we can use something like a Torpedo Captor and IRs, but how close do we get to digital sound? Is it worth spending so much money? Sure for some people yes, but for most? I will never part with my tube amps, in fact, I will continue to buy more and more. But I will profile them. Digital, as I see it, is a great tool. Unfortunately it will have its drawbacks in the market. We can't do anything about it

[@tonymckenziecom]

The digital connundrum is a sticky wicket currently. I have had many profiling bits of gear. I still never really get what the amp creates -although the 'this changes everything' brigade tell me otherwise. Like you, the amps are not going anywhere. I come from technology since 1981 and have seen many things, vapourware, promised upgrades, even pay now and we might ship someday, no software, you'll know what I mean. There's another aspect to the problem of digital profiling too. NO ONE EVER talks about it but I can and will in a video, but as a short intro, the particular chips used come and go. When those chips cease production - throw it in the trash - because there is no other solution. Ever. Tube amps can at least be 'resurected' one way or another... but not a peep out of those reviewers that are creating reviews for sales only. Sadly. Thanks for the post great points... and thanks for watching.

[@TheCyberMantis]

One serious problem is: tube amps have gotten astronomically expensive over the years. For one reason on top of another, the price keeps going up. I bought an original USA-made Peavey 5150 back in the 90's from a local music store for $750. It was brand new. Today, an EVH Stealth 100watt costs $2,400 in the USA. And the damn thing is made in Mexico! Inflation is part of it, but not all of it. Guitar players are always looking for alternatives. The AxeFX-III is super expensive as well. And it's not even an "amp"! It won't drive a 4x12 cab. It's a "pre-amp". We need to start getting away from tubes. The Boss Katana Artist head is a great choice. I also like the Orange Super Crush 100. Leave the tube amps in the recording studios, and RENT them. If you just play at home... stay away from tube amps. Not worth it.

[@KaddysJamKave]

The scenario you mention just makes a good case for buying USED tube amps or even lunch box tube amps for reasonable prices.

[@TheCyberMantis]

@@KaddysJamKave All tube amps fail. And when they do, you need to get them fixed. Also, tubes don't last forever. Do you have a good source to buy new tubes? And when you install those new tubes, you need to bias them. If you like fiddling with stuff and wasting your money, by all means, go buy used tube amps. It's the hobby within the hobby. I need to practice more, instead of tweaking settings or trying to get my tube amps fixed. Gear is not as important as the player.

[@KaddysJamKave]

@@TheCyberMantis Wow talk about a pessimistic view on reality. Most of your points are not true at all but it would be an awfully lengthy rebuttal that I can't be bothered writing... So you just do you... I have no interest in swaying another person's worldview.

[@TheCyberMantis]

@@KaddysJamKave Nice try. ALL of my points are true. You just don't like hearing the truth.

[@KaddysJamKave]

@@TheCyberMantis ok mate... Whatever you say... I better ignore my 30 years of experience and listen to you. I'll sell all 12 of my tube amps right away...

[@acoustic61]

To me, modelers are like sampling synths. Very convenient for live performance but doesn't have the mojo of the real thing. People tend to judge value based on cost. Tell me this. Each time a new modeler comes out, people say "It's so much better than it was before. You can't tell the difference." However, I don't hear them saying it's better than the amps that they model?

[@tonymckenziecom]

You raised agreat question for many 'new' things. For example, the Axe FX II was the best in the world and you won't need another one... type of mentality... then came Axe FX III which is 'better'. Does that mean that 'hey we sold you a load of cr** last time, but now we've fixed that - this is so much better'? Ha I laugh at most of the claims put out - Oh te old one was junk right? or was it? NOONE that sells the stuff (of almost any music gear) ever will answer those sort of questions of course... and you touched on it - a REALLY good post. Thanks for watching.

[@bloodofvangogh4856]

I’m one of the last few ( in my circle)who prefers playing directly into a tube amp and get THAT amp sound rather than relying on pedals... plus vocal wedges instead of in ears...I do however like the possibility of having MY tube amp sound recorded into a device to take on the road IF the back line provided doesn’t cut it...( which has only happened a handful of times... I am about to experiment with just that... we shall see how it goes. I ALWAYS record with real amps... big difference to me. Great video!

[@tonymckenziecom]

I have tried many 'boxes' - they are claimed to be 'perfect' by many, and that was not my experience pretty much on most profilers. The modelers fare a little different too. Best? Still those glass tubes. And I think that the difference IS both tone AND feel... it just plays different through a tube amp. Thanks.

[@bloodofvangogh4856]

@@tonymckenziecom I totally agree!

[@InTheSh8]

Honestly, I don't do much with ToneX. I have a JetCity JCA22h, Randall RD-5, a German hand-made SS-amp, some expensive, some chinese pedals. The problem is using this stuff when you play and record in your living room, too, not only in your home-studio upstairs. As soon as I start using IRs I consider my whole chain compromised. The world has literally run out of time. When I was young I remember changing loudspeakers, trying pedals, recording with 4-track tape devices (LOL). Now, this seems to me like an alien world. From time to time I go back to my amps, especially the RD-5 which doesn't need a load. But then I think, why not using NAM and start one of my favorite amps I never bought: The Laney GH100. And my god, it sounds and reacts so well. Yes, we will live in a world where many amps will go extinct. With those green and woke parties switching on a 100W amp will also make one hesitate in the future. Sad.

[@tonymckenziecom]

This is exactly it really. Ther IS a difference, and no matter how some people 'dress it up' that statement remains. Great point. Thanks for watching.

[@alexcampos7953]

Tony, I have to disagree. I honestly thinks it changes the landscape, thats for sure, but does not replace valve amps. They are gonna replace the cheap crap that all these companies put out for loads of money like the Marshall MGs, the Line 6 spiders and so on. But, just like the Joyo Bantamps (amazing sounding amps and loud enough for 90% of the gigs out there), the Tiny Terrors and the Marshall DSL didnt ruing the whole premium valve amp market. They are not aimed at the same players. Touring musicians do like having the convenience of tone matching and carrying something that weights 500g and not 20kgs. Beginners like to have access to great sounds without breaking the bank (and they had it before the modelers with the plugins and scarlets 2i2, the irigs and bias fx). Still, you need the real ones to create new sounds, studio guys prefer having the real ones most of the time. In fact, I would argue they are good for business. Having a good sound inspire you to play, it makes you feel better because it sounds pleasant, that leads to practice, that leads to love for music and, ergo, fancy and overpriced guitar amps - which I own a couple, and a ToneX. Just like affordable and great guitars did not ruin the vintage guitars market, even though a lot of modern guitars do sound and intonate way better than older instruments, having great sounding affordable gear is not gonna take the big ones out of business, actually its gonna put more people in love with music, and guitars, and lead them down the rabbit hole. My students can all play with the toneX, its right here, it sounds great... but they always prefer the JVM410. Do they know how to twist the knobs, set the gain, or do they even get to play with anything past lvl 1 on the master? No. Yet, they still want it. Its not a rational thing, having a modeler is a practical solution for practical problems. It is good for people to have good tone at affordable prices, it is good for touring and not breaking your back. Still, we buy the fancy heads, the 412s, we have 5 or 6 amp heads and we still buy the 7th, 8th. We have loads of guitars and we buy more, that will be played once every blue moon, we have a drop tunning pedal, and we still have guitars in different tunings. We buy overdrive pedals just because they are red instead of green. So, dont worry, the amp market is safe, more than that, its gonna do great, there are a lot more guitar players and people exploring the guitar around than in the early 2000s. There are guitar brands, higher quality instruments, PRS SEs, Ibanez Genesis, and every other day a new guitar brand putting impressive stuff out. And people still buy their Gibson's (even when they have the same headstock problems since forever). Things are gonna be great.

[@tonymckenziecom]

You made some great points, and making a video like this has sort of stimulated the thinking of many (read the posts) including yourself I think - its exactly why I made it. It's not that it WILL happen, but there is a possibility because no one can truly read the future (think Mesa and Gibson as an example or Fender and Presonus) least of all me and you :). But didn't you notice something? Not a single reviewer mentioned that point about people losing jobs at all? Your points are all possible as are mine... but the lack of consideration by ANY of those so called reviewers really shows a lot of the reality of how it all works, and I guess when they get the item for promoting product then maybe there's something lacking re truth underlying the review. BTW the amp guys I have spoken with are very adamant that the tube amps will remain long term (based on a survey I'll be putting in a video) - the results are interesting and are based on real survey rather than anecdotal opinions that we can all create. I did do a few different surveys etc. too and that should be worth taking a look when I get the video on there. I'm on vacation currently. Thanks for the great post - appreciated and thanks for watching.

[@jimsuber6784]

I occasionally get a pretty fair tone I think. I've never been able to get it without an amp and I've tried.

[@iamjiroe]

Here’s the deal… you wanna get the best out of modelers? You need good speakers at home. We’re taking about maybe $1500 for a pair of speakers. You want transparency that will translate extremely well no matter what venue you play in. That’s the problem. You want it to sound amazing in a record? Again, You need to dial in the tone in a good room with good speakers

[@tonymckenziecom]

Yes amps still do make a difference for sure.

[@tonymckenziecom]

@iamjiroe great points... and I can buy a tube amp (at least in the UK) for as low as £500 and even the cabs are not that expensive here.

[@jimsuber6784]

I use nothing but QSC. It still doesn't seen to have more than a sort of 2 dimensional (I don't know how else to say it) reproduction of a sound that you can just feel out of the right amp. Admittedly I play mostly clean. Nothing beats a Fender tube for clean.

[@johngregory7329]

Hello Tony, I hope you are doing well. I do agree with you about tube amps, and I hope they are here long after I am gone. What guitarist should look at is the different options that they have. You can go tube or you can go the way of modeling pedals or rack gear. It depends on what your ears like or what you feel best suits your needs. Anyway my friend stay safe and well and keep Rocking. Signed John ( Zepbass) Gregory from Munster Indiana, U.S.A.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Good to hear you J. Yes the suitability to the musician is paramount. I find myself that the tube amp imparts great tones - but also a 'feel' that digital gear does not have - and that can be very inspirational. Of the music I developed I never have really used the digital gear to write the music. The 'feel' tends to inspire whereas for me the digital is a bit clinical. Stay safe there and always nice to hear from you...

[@VideoDetection]

I think the future modellers will all include the ability to sample as well. Tube amps may get less and less common as solid state amps take over, but amps and modellers will exist together for some time. What will disappear are products like Tonex that only sample. Tonex will transform into a hardware modeller pedal that can also perform tone capture just like all the others will eventually do.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Likely on both counts. And for sure I see Line6 and others probably working on that as we speak (who knows, even adding it to Helix?). Thanks for watching.

[@enuxs]

I have a Kemper Profiler Rack and an Axe-Fx III, but the most fun is to play a good tube amp with a great pedalboard.

[@enuxs]

@@KoRNeRd Having time with the best gear available is fun - so I don't think about that. But I understand, that not everybody is in that position and I think it is good, that these people can get good stuff for less money.

[@PainterDans]

Yea, I prefer an amp with a suhr reactive load if a cabinet is too loud to use over a modeler

[@craigharrison5406]

100% agreed. I have a Headrush modeller and 3 tube amps and I still spend a lot more time playing my tube amps. As close as people say the modellers and profilers are to the real amps, I can hear a difference.

[@AA-ih6kt]

headrush prime now has profiling

[@tonymckenziecom]

Thanks for sharing! and for watching too! Appreciated.

[@rockindavebyron3960]

I agree with you Tony, the makers of most or all of these products know what's going on & they are certainly NOT in business to loss!!! There might be a product or 2 that's not a 100% win, but for the most part their products are good. I use amp modelers ( right now the Boss GT1 for a year at all my gigs, so far, so good) because I go straight to P.A. Down here in SW Florida, we do a LIT of outdoor gigs, so the Boss GT1 is perfect, works & sounds great & inexpensive, so it's a lot easier to replace, if I had to! By the way, I liked your review on the GT1, that was the final reason I bought one! One thing I've noticed about some of these people in KZbin, is none of them seem to be gigging out there in the real world & in all different weather temperatures, & that's the REAL test!!! Great video, thanks for all you do for us, I really do appreciate it, you ROCK my friend, be safe, Rock On & God Bless!!!

[@tonymckenziecom]

Interesting on the GT1 - it seems sometimes to get a 'bad press' but in reality it does work. My grandson has it and does use it all the time. Great points about the weather stuff too. Obviously I don't (or cant determine) the users that gig or don't gig, but the guess is you could be right. I have always felt that the majority of gear by far IS sold to consumers rather than pro musicians... pretty obvious really. Great to know that review helped - thats the object of every one of them really. While YT do pay for views etc. to e honest if I scratch my nose I'm taxed to the hilt... some might say thats OK but to be honest it becomes a disincentive to make any money. At my age the vultures (yep the UK government) are waiting to pounce with their 40% duties - and they get more than that while I remain alive! Ha I don't have a lot of time for that. In any case, honestly and sincerely, its really good that you have a nice opinion about the reviews I have made. New one coming probably Saturday on the Headstrong Prime (like Optimus :) and thanks for watching.... when you see that video there are 5 playing examples, and the last two are: next to last is a (they say) JCM800 and the last track is a real Marshall JCM800 (studio) and you will see the difference immediately. :) I'm in Florida next month but you're probably too far away for me.... regards. T

[@thesupersonic6456]

This is right! What do you thinking about this pedal? I want that my amps or his tones are with me in rehearsal and on gigs. I didn‘t like the sound it comes from a PA speaker after miking up. I powered up with a powerstage 170 with a real cab and I am very happy with that. But I like your aproach . Thank you Tony

[@tonymckenziecom]

I DID review this Tonex pedal and had a number of problems! Here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKO2YputhNp_o5Y most watch this video here... but the review shows a different point or two. Thanks for watching - appreciated.

[@andrewsmith6898]

I ordered this pedal. But not to replace my amps. After all your review of the 5150iii 50w stealth helped convince me to buy it. I've played with a few modeling software captures and some cab IRs, but they're not the same as the heads and 2x12 in my garage. They are a lot easier to record with, for me and my budget. But I am also a drummer first and foremost and the guitarists who actually show up to studios and shows have tube amps, the home studio solo producers will be the ones exclusively playing modelers and profilers. You can't IR a 4x12 through headphones or monitor speakers and experience 4x12 tone. You can't capture the full range of an amp in a profile, just the range where it's knobs are profiled. But you can get a taste for yourself of what a Diezel VH4 or a vintage JMP can do dialed in which is pretty neat.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Yes I get what you're saying for sure. I do use digital technology sometimes myself too. I also like the amps because when I can crank them they do sound 'different' and 'feel' different to me. But great point and post and thanks for watching.

[@Twobarpsi]

I got suckered into the "modelers" as a beginner guitarist. I wanted 100 presets and 100s of effects. In the long run I sold it off and bought a DSL100 and a Triple Rectifier, along with three cabinets. Best decision. If everybody has the same modeler, and presets, you will sound like everyone else. I also hate fiddling with software. Great video!

[@iamjiroe]

That’s a ridiculous claim, you buy a triple rectifier and you will sound like everybody who’s got a triple rectifier 😂

[@xx-----------xx873]

you sound like everyone else who has a triple rec lol. By any chance do you boost it with a TS? Either way it's very original and you sound like no-one else playing it lol

[@iamjiroe]

@@xx-----------xx873 maybe where you are from but here in the U.S triple rectifier were extremely popular, I played one for years. There’s just not enough amps for the amount of people out there to sound original… also let me tell you about carrying that 100 lbs amp on your 😂 I’ve done it and I do not recommend

[@xx-----------xx873]

@@iamjiroe Where I'm from in the UK we use sarcasm, we even make concessions for the yanks making it bleeding obvious and yet it still went over your head lol

[@iamjiroe]

@@xx-----------xx873 haha ok but you can’t expect me to get sarcasm in a comment 😅 it’s harder to know if it’s actually sarcasm or for real

[@CarnageNetworkUK]

Just been having this conversation with my wife. But the flipside is that we have a depletion of raw resource. AI and tech in general will preserve the sounds and in the future, no doubt we will be making sims from sims, a bit like a star trek transporter. Henry Ford would probably have a few comments about electric cars! I'm in my 50s, been playing Orange and Marshalls since I was 14. It's sad to see so much history, science, manufacturing and technical skills being replaced. However, I've played the OR virtual amp in Tonex and it is every bit my old RV50MKI. There is a revolution and like it or not, we have to accept. Rather now than later before we run out of the raw materials and have nothing to play. I guess we are at the cusp of entering into a frenzy of tech development that is going to impact on every aspect of consumerism. Welcome to the future, but not necessarily the one we hoped for.

[@tonymckenziecom]

About ten years ago I created a comedy video (the Focknrollers) and we made some trailers. One was by (the guitarist Carlless Sultana) and he showed making a profile of a profiler :) you're not far off. :) Go on laugh... kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZKomXyXaKlpoaM more at focknrollers.com Am I mad? Likely....

[@StratsRUs]

I really enjoy my Helix and other doobries. My real amps are lovely and keep my ears sharp to tweak the Helix etc.I bought the Marshall SV20H recently and Love It. I also thoroughly enjoy your channel ! Well Done.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Well thanks. The SV20H is a pretty cool amp and I did review that. Similarly I too have helix, Kemper, Roland etc. Thanks for watching.

I think this pedal is for live gigs where its very hard to carry a marshall fullstack. I'm a tube amp guy, but this pedal + good pedalboard does the job in live gigs or silent recording in apartment. Tube amps are unbeatable and these kind of units cannot replace the real deal amps :)

[@tonymckenziecom]

There IS a place for all of it of course you are right, and thanks for watching.

[@MarcAndreLevesque]

To those who rejoice that tubes amps are dead with ToneX ... what the hell are you going to capture if they are gone... use the protuberance you have on your neck people? Also, on capture is 1 tone, not a whole amp. I see it to be very useful for touring and gigging, no hassle always getting the same tone and just eq for the room and that's it. For home practice and studio, I will keep my tube and solid state amps thank you and I will complement with pc plugins and modelers. It is safe to say the market will change, but unless people really are that stupid, and I don't think they are because they will still crave that actual hardware "I own it" feeling... guitar players are like that, gear craving hoarders and that is not changing any time soon :)

[@tonymckenziecom]

Ha I just read about 'hoarding' guitars... I guess it could be a similar thing... except of course someone will own the stuff, if you don't then someone will. So 'hoarding' is a rather strange way of describing things. I actually do use my amps - not by the hour of course, but amps (or guitars for that matter) that I don't like I always sell. Seems logical :) and I tend to agree that amps are necessary to capture them :)

[@adgtr383]

Spot on, I use modellers as it suits my needs the best but there's a place for everything tube amps to axe fx to tonex. I'll never get guitarists who think every new product has killed everything else.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Exactly. I also use amps and digital as necessary. Everything has its place but 'this changes everything' is so stupidly funny. Thanks for watching,

[@christopherdunn317]

Ya shame on you GLEN AND KYLE SORRY JUST CALLING THEM OUT !

[@tonymckenziecom]

Ouch...

[@SaintLuminus]

You make a great point Tony. Here is what will happen, in 20 years the Tonex will be a piece of digital history that we will laugh at how primitive it was. The same way we look at the first Line 6 Pod. Lotsa nostalgia

[@tonymckenziecom]

Probably correct - it all moves on. Ha will we (well you might I'll probably be where its dark) be discussing the latest Marshall digital amp and mentioning that you liked plugin X and others liked plugin Y. And the wealthy guys loved the plugin with over 1m bits... :) Thanks for watching.

[@theaweber5432]

Love it when people ask me ‘why don’t you buy a helix?’ While looking at my big sky, timeline and iridium on my Pedalboard. ‘Oh, it’s the new thing. Everyone has it!’ 🙄🙄🙄 Like other people pointed out here, it’s not just about the gear. Tone comes from the fingers first. Gear is rather secondary. That’s why a good guitarist sounds amazing even on a cheap squire and a cheap amp. Thanks for this video! Maybe an eye opener for those fanboys out there.

[@tonymckenziecom]

:) Thanks for the post and for watching...

[@alien4422]

Tony, A.I. is the future. We will eventually be at a place where a product in a way not far away from what Sound Hound does will analyse a guitar tone from an audio file and boom it will give you David Gilmour's tone from the comfortably numb solo. In the same way it will give you any classic or other guitar tone that you have ever heard. The amps will no longer be needed as their tones have already been recorded in countless recording studios. It is not a matter of if but of when. Will it happen in our life times? Your guess if as good as mine. Tonex is just the tip of a very large iceburg. But the future is coming and for me it cannot come soon enough!

[@tonymckenziecom]

I get that, but from what I see of A.I. the eventually might be further than some might think. I have been using A.I. daily for a number of months and the corrections and re-writing etc. not to mention the incorrect facts makes me think that's still a while off. The point still remains that those tones were CREATED by the amp makers and IMO it is even morally wrong (as if many care these days) to simply take them without thought of the originators that invented each and every amp. It does not make things right, just to take the tones, and ha I could even guess that maybe it would produce a very interesting court case... maker against tone 'cloner'. Unlikely I know, but never say never especially when peoples livelihood is at stake. What I would say is this... I have used these types of devices since 2011 and there are so many modelers, profilers etc. and after a while I do have to say that they (all of the digital devices I mention here) all tend to sound pretty much the same... a digital tone and without the feel of the real deal amps. It's just an opinion of course and thanks for the post because no one is wrong :) and thanks for watching.

[@madiimad]

Neural DSP all the way. It's like having all the best amps. Tired of big heavy heads and cabinets. The future is bright.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Oh well. So what about all those employees that lose their jobs? All end up with no income, all because some company came along and maybe (figuratively) stole the tone? There certainly is more to the situation than many think and its why I made the video to highlight this point. However, great for the post and for watching...

[@KA-mf5oz]

@@tonymckenziecom How many employees will loose their jobs?

[@charlesdavis5942]

Nothing beats a real amp

[@nikolayew]

🙄

[@digitalchris6681]

Apart from two real amps

[@tonymckenziecom]

a whip? anyone?

[@maxquaini1340]

It’s a good pedal tool, but honestly I’m pretty sick of all those sales videos out there made by guitartubeheroes.. No hate just little rant lol Your channel is a taste of fresh air man! You’re the coolest👍🏻

[@tonymckenziecom]

Thank you and glad that you 'get it' :) Thanks for watching too.

[@davidlambert5123]

As an old school metal player, when I started playing as a teenager, it was always the dream to have a real tube amp, but who could afford that as a teenager? As an adult I’ve played/owned them for years. While I do use amp sims, & I do have an AxeFx 3, I also have an EVH 5150 III & a Marshall cab. To me they are great for different things. I love modeling/profiling for recording. I think IRs are one of the best things ever invented for recording! BUT…that is of a guitar amp sound that is mic’d up. That does not replace the amp in a room sound. I like them both for different reasons. I really like the sound of a real amp into a 4x12 cab when I just jam to have fun. I always do that for practice or just playing. I use the axefx 3 is what I use to record with, as a tool, but I have fun with my real amps. That’s kind of how it is for me

[@tonymckenziecom]

Great info and thanks for the post. I could guess we all do what we 'think' is best. I have lots of gear, but I do tend to stick with real amps and cabs for recording 'proper' stuff. I have had a Kemper since January 2012 or somewhere there and you know most digital stuff can sound OK to good, but I prefer the real amps - it sounds and 'feels' somehow different... there's little like a really good amp and decent speakers and the setup is pretty instant. But I guess its horses for courses :). Thanks for watching.

[@waynejames2014]

Hi Tony, thanks for your perspective. I don't think that tube amps will disappear but the convenience of modelling and profiling is hitting amp sales hard. The USA instrument amp market has halved since 2005. I think new players/buyers will steer towards modellers/profilers and those wanting a real tube amp will have to know what to do with it to make it worth their while. I have a Tonex and use it with HX FX, so I'm mixing and matching anyway, i admit that I prefer the feel of a real tube amp but have no way to reach useful volumes so I won't be buying a new amp any time soon.

[@tonymckenziecom]

The mix and match is a good compromise IMO... benefits both solutions in a good way. Great point and I agree the sims are really not quite the same. Currently, Mesa (for example) no one has in the UK? What are they playing at? or are the sales really that bad? I doubt they are, I think there are other aspecs afoot somehow. Even Marshall here, I am sure have struggled with this stuff and it would be sad to see it all go... thanks for watching and a good post.

[@joeking433]

So, what DO you like, Tony, in the way of effects and amps?

[@tonymckenziecom]

Well, I have many amps (about 20). Those amps typically through Marshall 1960a cabs work for me (but the cabs are the old ones I bought early 90's give or take). I also have Helix, Kemper and others and modelers (the usual suspects). Re effects I'm quite laid back with my needs, a Dunlop Jerry Cantrell Wah, generally any old reverb and delay and sometimes a chorus - again typically Roland/Boss. I also use a noise gate pedal or one built in to certain amps. The Helix is a rack and when I do use that its setup in a particular way and then I might include other effects, but it's more of getting particular sounds with the Helix for particular music. The Kemper I have used off and on for some time, but I have to admit less these days (no reason why really). On amps I use the Mezzabarba M-Zero One, a Diezel Hagen, 5150 III Stealth (50w), and a number of Marshall amps - JVM410H Satch Head, The TSL100 (records particularly well), a JTM45 (somewhere near 30w), a Marshall 1959HW with Roland power reduction (its very loud), the Studio amps (all 20w) that have those yesteryear tones and are really excellent tones and other amps like Bogner Brixton - a small amp but drives ridiculously well. I still like to record with a microphone or two. It's not that I dislike plugins etc. but again I like to try and get the tones from an amp because when that's right then everything else falls in to place. As you can imagine I don't have spare time just hanging around and anything that takes lots of time usually falls way down that list. Hope it helps and this list is far from complete.

[@marcohermans3207]

My father worked in a coal mine. Finally they were all closed so he had to search another job. My point is that everything evolves. Will this capturing/modeling technology take tube amp manufacturers out of bussiness? I doubt it but people will always adapt to new circumstances. They will find another job. Where doors are closed other ones are gonna open. This whole digital thing is here to stay and will evolve rapidly. More and more guitar players are making music in their bedrooms in their small appartments. A tube amp has no use here because you cannot use them at their sweet spot without getting in trouble with your neighbours and a tube amp at 0.5-1 volume sounds nothing better then a modeler/profiler anyway. The music bussiness has changed. More silent stages appear. In our town you are not allowed anymore to bring your amp with cab. More and more cities are doing the same. Governement rules... Pfff. It also saves space in a small pub. We are not allowed anymore to produce more then 95 db in a pub. This digital revolution is far better controllable for the sound engineer/pub holder. My precious tube amps stay at home and I bring these tones with me with the Tonex pedal. All the digital devices nowadays produce accurate tones. It's a matter of choice if you want build in effects or not. It's the monitoring system that gives you an amp in a room sound/feel or not. These current FRFR speakers/wedges sound like shit and that can be and will be improved in the next few years. The good old times with a blasting marshall tube amp with 412 behind you are gone. It's a pitty but life goes on. Times are changing. And now I grab a beer. Cheers

[@tonymckenziecom]

I get it - but it really is hilarious how the 'times are changing' when they are trying to simulate old tube amps... its so funny. Thanks for watching

[@blazeofglory1982]

There’s a place for both. People will continue to purchase modelers for the convenience and affordability factor. People will purchase amps for experience they offer. Just like people will continue to both stream music and buy vinyl as well.

[@tonymckenziecom]

But how nmany buy CD's ;-) Thanks for watching.

[@MarsHottentot]

I did see one other channel bring this question up. Unfortunately, I can't recall which. Here's the thing: true as it is, all it will take is for one generation to come up without the experience of having a tube amp pushing air for tube amps to disappear. Already at club shows, groups are using these modellers and profilers over actual amps. It's almost standard. There's numerous reasons - cost, chiefly - most young people can't afford an apartment, much less a tube amplifier. But also there's the question of storage. Plus, most bands don't play at the literal deafening levels we did, they don't need anything that powerful. Things change, not always for the better, but that doesn't stop it from happening

[@tonymckenziecom]

Not from what I see... and a tube amp can be bought these days for about £100 ($125) even that weighs less than your guitar. No effrect on tube amps... hmmm... there has been a tremendous slow down of new tube amp models being released in to the market currently make no mistake about that. And I can't buy Mesa amps here in the UK, Marshall are slow currently, and most brands equally slow. Is it the fault of gear like this? Maybe so or maybe not, but read all the posts and you will find that by far the majority remain firmly focussed on tube amps. I 'get it' for the post and thanks for that as it is a good contribution IMO and of course thanks for watching.

[@chrisjudd743]

Amp modelers are not killing amps because we use amps to play them through! We use them in conjunction. The difference is Tonex is affordable where as a Kemper/Quad/Axe FX is much more expensive. I think if anything amp heads will be less expenseive in tomorrows market but the cabs will still always be needed for live use. Id like to play a show where we can all use the same Marshall cab and guitarists in the different bands just come along and plug in their amp modeler pedal in, rather than having to mess around change them between bands.

[@tonymckenziecom]

SOME guys don't use amps in the way that might generally spring to mind. And 'amps' covers a multitude of things... take the Kemper powered amp profiler as an example. I get your point of course, but watching companies go bust (or as currently being 'taken over' is not for me a pretty sight, and if companies were to go to the wall, then of course so do the employees... its an important thing to remember, and in my opinion not a great way to watch the demise of tube amp companies - if indeed that would happen. I can buy a PRS MT15 for under £500 and nothing wrong with it. Sure its not at the top of the pile, but its very well made and is a low cost tube amp that does sound very good. Well I guess there are plenty of ways to plug in - the frfr stuff is there re amps and that's probably very possible of course I agree. The TONEX raised the question of 'it's the end of the modelers' they said, and 'this changes everything' old phrase but in reality it's likely to NOT be the TONEX that changes things in the medium term for many reasons. Thanks for the post - very interesting and thanks for watching.

[@chrisjudd743]

@@tonymckenziecom hi Tony, I completely get your point and the last thing I’d ever want to see is the amp companies we all know and love go just. After all, without them there would be no tones to profile on amp modellers. You can’t beat a big stack at a live show and I’m sure recording studios would still love to record the sound of an actual amp rather than a clone copy. That said, I wonder how these companies will adapt and evolve to cope with the seismic shift in trends. Either they will focus on speakers or amps that can integrate more with amp modellers, or we are on the brink of something new and different. Either way, interesting times ahead. Thanks for the videos I really enjoyed your take.

[@dantucker7390]

I am about to buy a Tonex because I have 3 kids and money is tight. I would love to have 150 tube amps but I can't even afford one. I play at church and a tube amp in that setting is just too loud. What I see happening is the same thing I see happening with guitars. The tube amp makers will sell less and charge even more for what they do sell. These digital knockoffs will become what Squire is to Fender. People with deep pockets will continue to buy the real amps and the working class will go the cheaper digital route. I am old too and the thought of lugging a tube amp around and 4x12 cab doesn't interest me at all anymore. The major amp makers already see the writing on the wall and have started moving digital to keep the lower to mid-priced amps moving. Look at the Katana for instance. I have 2 of them I run in stereo and when talking to music stores they sell more katanas and sparks than anything now. Many of the music stores have stopped even stocking the tube amps except for the smaller affordable tube combos. Will real amps eventually make a comeback? Time will tell I guess but when I attend concerts for the last few years I see Helix and Axe FX on the floor more and more and rea amps less and less. The tones I hear out of the PA sound killer so I see why even artists with deep pockets want the simplicity and dependability of digital amps and effects. You are the first I have seen to look at the big picture and what this means for the music industry. Pandora's box has been opened and I don't see tube amps making a comeback anytime soon. Great video!

[@tonymckenziecom]

Great points... but I can buy a real tube amp for about $130.00 and as heavy as your lunch box? As for cabs, again not really necessary as there is other gear that you can use... all in all about total the same price as the Tonex. Let me ask you this, when your software stops working and cant work the Tonex any longer because some software company went bust, how will you use your Tonex? on the other hand, the amp will run for the rest of your life! Its a great question that no one ever seems to answer. Amps will reduce in numbers I agree. And you have some great points... but being dependent on some software company is not really a very good idea... Thanks for watching.

[@marcostomasi79]

Just curious do you still use one of the following? Polaroid Typewriter Floppy disks VHS Carphone Pager

[@tonymckenziecom]

Indeed pagers are used STILL throughout the world today... where have you been? Check yourself.

[@marcostomasi79]

Thank you for not answering my question. In addition, you also missed the point I tried to make. Like any technology Tone X will have it's life cycle. It could be 5, 10, 20 years IDK. Tube amps too... I believe they are also approaching the end of a longer life cycle.

[@nathancourtney2006]

I always watch when one of your videos come out. You always have something to say worth watching Thanks 👍

[@tonymckenziecom]

Well thank you... and thanks for watching.

[@makinganoise6028]

I totally get your point, there is a wider wave of technology hitting right now that will transform the whole Music Industry, at every level, Hardware, Software, Production and Performance and that is AI, Artificial Intelligence, I work with it, and it could be as simple as Hey Google create me a song in the style of [whoever] with the vocals as sung by[famous singer] , Guitar [your choice] , playing through [your choice] hope you get the point, this is not Science Fiction, there is now Freeware Software that does the same Tonex, in the near future there will be no need for Musicians, other than live performance, (if anybody can afford to go anywhere), but people will be able to have AI generate or remix songs for them, I already use it to remove vocals and remix songs for myself to practice, so dont need backing track Companies anymore. Tech moves on, I have Valve Amps, but now I use a 100W Katana, which is fine for the Gigs I play, tbh, I dont see me buying another Valve Amp, people will buy some, just like they buy expensive Gibsons, when an Indonesian copy for £200 does the same job, but it is a diminishing market, come back to this post in 5 years, see how far away I am.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Yes it is deminishing I agree, and can be a threat to musicians as well as the people making the tube amps re their job. Thanks for the post and for watching.

[@darrenruiz6904]

Tony love ya from Canada.. This Tonex I believe is the tip of the iceberg of whats to come.. I am waiting for the tonex bonex sonex donex that will allow me to load irs or captures of pickups and guitars!!! Then a Pick ir so your Dunlop pick will sound and respond like Dava pick.. Great time to be alive as a guitar Player.. Take care all the best in wealth and health

[@tonymckenziecom]

:) Ha this was a very funny post and great to see. I IMMEDIATELY smiled, and I loved the Pick IR from Dunlop... :) so funny! Brilliant and be careful... they might do it :) Thanks and this one made my day...

[@SteveOuimette]

I'm still old school. Love that we've come so far but there isn't a single product yet that can touch the real thing. In the end it's getting harder to the difference in a mix but I can feel the difference and there's a joy in playing the real thing. Just like virtual synths. I still have all of my vintage amps and love them, re-tube them, tune them up, modify them and cherish what works of art they are.

[@tonymckenziecom]

Exactly Steve... great comment. Thanks for watching.

[@SteveOuimette]

@@tonymckenziecom Thank you for making the excellent video, Tony!

[@k9er233]

Still nothing like the touch dynamics of a good, cranked, tube amp-speaker-guitar connection, not to mention the heady scent of hot cookin' power tubes in an old amp cabinet. 😁😁

[@tonymckenziecom]

I can agree :) Thanks for watching.