Too Heavy to Hover? The Brits found a solution! F-35B Lightning II SRVL (MSFS)

[@jjsmallpiece9234]

And for the next trick, with the ship actually under way at 20kts. For bonus points at night, no lights and a good storm blowing with a pitching deck 20ft.

[@cgaviator]

Well I did do a CASE 3 STOVL video with poor weather. I do wish that MSFS focused on the ship dynamics, even a basic pitching and rolling motion would be nice. As for night… I think the buggy HUD would give me a headache! 😅 Perhaps over the DCS for some better ship stuff.

[@jjsmallpiece9234]

@@cgaviator Ships and the Oggin isn't the place for RAF guys. Stick to the seedy flesh pots of Deci in Sardinia.

[@cgaviator]

@@jjsmallpiece9234 lol, that’s precisely why I avoided volunteering for the F35!

[@jjsmallpiece9234]

@@cgaviator Can't be having those rough navy lads corrupting the morals of a clean living RAF boy.

[@cgaviator]

@@jjsmallpiece9234 seamen you mean! 😂

[@mikestrohm3271]

I saw the original documentary when Queen Elizabeth first started her flight training ops with the F35-B. The manufacturers and the US Navy said a rolling landing was impossible until the British primary test pilot showed them how to do it and, I believe, his method is now taught to the US pilots so they can replicate this manoeuver.

[@cgaviator]

I think they use it on land, but they don’t operate the F35s from big carrier decks, mostly LHAs or whatever they are.

[@ianjardine7324]

To be fair a lot of these guy's would have experience using Harrier's with much less power and far more complicated control's. I've no doubt the US Marine pilots would have been able to perfect this idea pretty quickly too.

[@tedb.5707]

There's historic precedent, the Royal Navy figured how to reliably land the F4U Corsair on a carrier in WW2.

[@mikestrohm3271]

@@tedb.5707 I think the thing to mention here is that the Royal Navy solved all the carrier problems and the rest of the world followed suit, ie, angled flight deck. Incidentally, do you know why the Island is always on the starboard side?

[@simonbird1973]

@@mikestrohm3271 The first aircraft carriers had propeller powered aircraft. On these aircraft the prop turned clockwise, creating torque which tried to force the aircraft to roll counterclockwise, or left. An injured pilot, or an aircraft out of trim due to damage would roll left. So the island was on the right & it’s stuck through tradition ever since.

[@paulkirkland3263]

Great video, as usual. I can't say the F-35B grabs me much in terms of flight simming, but watching how these real-world procedures can be replicated within MS2020 is hugely interesting.

[@cgaviator]

Real world with a strong hint of poetic licence! 😂 But thanks, always appreciated 👍🏻

[@yfelwulf]

B35 Kamakhazi the worst failure in the history of military aviation and the RN that has cancelled half its order pretending they can get it to work. If only Benny Hill was still alive imagine the comedy skits he could do. A carrier with no crew and an aircraft that is barely airworthy. 16 years past its official delivery date the US was supposed to get 4250 alone plus its vassals share hundreds more a little over 1200 made all up. Due to be out of service in 2040 that's now 2070. Israelistan 🇺🇲 announced if its vassals want any of the 1000+ faults fixed they will have to pay CASH UP FRONT 🤣 those silly enough to believe this garbage you will be old men before it goes out of service. Britain the "mouse that roared" Kamakhazi? Kama a tribute to Japanese pilots who sacrificed their lives and Khazi UK slang for a toilet.

[@michelestefanini5466]

mfs isn't even a simulator it's more an arcade game. The only thing it has as a simulator is the fact that you can interact with the cockpit

[@AJS86]

Have you tried carrier landings on DCS yet? I can't speak for the Harrier but even in the Hornet they can be wild

[@Paladonaldin]

Its awesome isnt it getting to fly the actual planes with the correct maneuvres without actually having to risk ur life 😂😂

[@marcuswardle3180]

The only thing missing was Eric 'Winkle' Brown stepping out of the cockpit!

[@cgaviator]

Lol, yeah! 😂

[@B-A-L]

The other thing missing is the Sir before his name. It's a disgrace that a man who did more for British aviation than anybody was never given a knighthood when tv stars and sports stars have!

[@jacksprat9172]

@@B-A-L Agreed. The man was a legend and I can't think of anyone from any nation who can remotely compare to Eric Brown. Every aspect of his career is of historical significance and as you say, its a travesty he didn't get a knighthood.

[@nicholasburns7970]

I cannot add anything to the comments already made.

[@Robert-ff9wf]

Nice job!!! For some reason this reminds me of the Corsair in ww2. A carrier plane that us Americans would not let land on a carrier until the British came up with a safe maneuver to land them! They were always doing stuff like that, taking our stuff and making them better!

[@cgaviator]

I have plans to give that a go also!

[@grahvis]

The technique was first learned to cope with the long nose of the Spitfire.

[@cgaviator]

@@grahvis yes, I used that approach in my recent spitfire video 👍🏻

[@belgeode]

Always cool to see how other navies do things! Thanks for this!!

[@cgaviator]

My pleasure as always! 50/50 RN/RAF pilots though

[@HypePerformanceGroup]

This might be my favorite video you’ve made, love how educational it was

[@cgaviator]

Hey, thanks! Really appreciated!

[@staubsauger2305]

Thanks Chris. That's very interesting and mostly similar to, but a bit faster final approach then one would make in the DCS:AV-8B for the abeam hover- but then with the huge airbrake lift fan cover it's no wonder it starts faster but then slows so much. The symbology seems weird to have an E-bracket but no doughnut (I'm so used to DCS A-4 and F/A-18 where you constantly have the donut in the scan pattern). Nice job in splicing in that Picture-in-Picture interview too.

[@cgaviator]

Lol, thanks! It’s a very basic implementation, I wonder if MSFS would allow them to make it less buggy and more realistic

[@FreemanRiverCruisers]

Wow. A sensible educational simulator based post at last. Top marks, learnt a few things to improve my actual flying in an an old puddle jumper thanks.

[@cgaviator]

My pleasure, glad it was useful 👍🏻

[@EcliPsMonKey]

what an absolutely stunning aircraft, great video as always!

[@cgaviator]

Thank you kindly, and it sure does look amazing!

[@yfelwulf]

B35 Kamakhazi the worst failure in the history of military aviation and the RN that has cancelled half its order pretending they can get it to work. If only Benny Hill was still alive imagine the comedy skits he could do. A carrier with no crew and an aircraft that is barely airworthy. 16 years past its official delivery date the US was supposed to get 4250 alone plus its vassals share hundreds more a little over 1200 made all up. Due to be out of service in 2040 that's now 2070. Israelistan 🇺🇲 announced if its vassals want any of the 1000+ faults fixed they will have to pay CASH UP FRONT 🤣 those silly enough to believe this garbage you will be old men before it goes out of service. Britain the "mouse that roared" Kamakhazi? Kama a tribute to Japanese pilots who sacrificed their lives and Khazi UK slang for a toilet.

[@cgaviator]

@@yfelwulf think they dreamt big and lost their pocket money!

[@supermarinespitfire3760]

When it comes to carrier landings nothing beats the brits

[@cgaviator]

🇬🇧

[@juleswombat5309]

We also came up with the Bedford Array, so as to help SRVL landings in rougher seas, with larger heave and pitch motions, need to indicate an optimum aim point on the deck.

[@cgaviator]

We’re a clever bunch that’s for sure! 😁

[@dystopianlucidity4448]

The Brit’s will find a way, the Brit’s were the ones that figured out the best way to bring corsairs onboard a carrier.

[@cgaviator]

Yeah, someone mentioned that! May have to give it a go!

[@andrewlunt5868]

We did that with our Hawker Harriers on Hms Hermes , illustrious & Ark Royal .....

[@cmw9876]

Eric Winkle Brown would have aced It. The Brits have been very inventive at getting planes, especially jets, on and off aircraft carriers. Simulation is a very powerful tool.

[@EdgyNumber1]

I'm absolutely sure he would have enjoyed flying this aircraft. Compared to the Harrier he most likely would've tested, the automation makes STVOL so much more easy. The man is a legend in my eyes.

[@mohamedalaminemahdjoubi2736]

Good job ,Another solid video. It's great just sitting back and watching you work your magic. Thanks for the time you put in these videos.

[@cgaviator]

My pleasure! Thanks

[@KircardProductionsAustralia]

I'm going to agree with Hype here. Direct to the point, clear instruction and well thought out. Thank you cgaviator. 🙂

[@cgaviator]

Absolutely my pleasure, thank you 👍🏻

[@AITR]

Another fun yet informative video, and the editing practice is clearly paying off, looks slick and professional.

[@cgaviator]

Thanks! I think I’m setting my bar too high… takes forever to edit! 😅

[@cptairwolf]

Brilliant video and absolutely gorgeous aircraft and carrier.

[@cgaviator]

Thank you kindly!

[@chrisheilman7612]

Awesome, Fully loaded too! Should do a F15 unrestricted climb and maneuvers. Always great videos

[@cgaviator]

I was planning to do some overhead patterns in the F15… just never got around to it! It’s on the todo list. Also can’t wait for the DCS F15 soon!

[@chrisheilman7612]

@@cgaviator can't wait to see some F15 flights then

[@yfelwulf]

Are you serious you're having a laugh right B35 Kamakhazi the worst failure in the history of military aviation and the RN that has cancelled half its order pretending they can get it to work. If only Benny Hill was still alive imagine the comedy skits he could do. A carrier with no crew and an aircraft that is barely airworthy. 16 years past its official delivery date the US was supposed to get 4250 alone plus its vassals share hundreds more a little over 1200 made all up. Due to be out of service in 2040 that's now 2070. Israelistan 🇺🇲 announced if its vassals want any of the 1000+ faults fixed they will have to pay CASH UP FRONT 🤣 those silly enough to believe this garbage you will be old men before it goes out of service. Britain the "mouse that roared" Kamakhazi? Kama a tribute to Japanese pilots who sacrificed their lives and Khazi UK slang for a toilet.

[@chrisheilman7612]

@@yfelwulf what are you going on about? I talked about the F-15 which to this time holds world records to this day... I think you mixes your comments up with someone else..

[@c00sto]

Did it with the Qinetic Harrier when I was on the Lusty Bus. Never got implemented as they shitcanned the SHAR

[@cgaviator]

I thought they used the VAAC to figure the plan for the F35?

[@c00sto]

@@cgaviator I think you’re right, that’s what the VAAC was for. But I got WAFU mates who will swear it was something they wanted for the SHARs as they always had to punch off ordinance and dump fuel before recovering. Lack of organic carrier aircraft they binned the idea off as it would have been a really intensive training serial and expensive upgrade for a capability rarely used.

[@axon1637]

If I didnt know this was a simulator, I'd swear your a real pilot

[@cgaviator]

A very good looking sim… and yes, a real pilot 👍🏻

[@LinskaV2]

Great video as always, it’s an appalling loud beast in the hover I must say.

[@cgaviator]

Oh yes, very much so! Watched a low approach at Linton, incredible!

[@andrewfreeman5109]

The harrier was pretty loud. I've never seen an F-35 in the flesh. How does it compare?

[@LinskaV2]

@@andrewfreeman5109 I saw the harrier a few times as a kid I don’t remember it being as loud as the F-35. The engine is truly massive.

[@jmurkz]

coffee, msfs and cga's new video... great start to a Monday, thank you. ☕

[@cgaviator]

Lol, pleasure to be a part of it! 😁

[@DCSHacks]

Great content as always! Seriously without the British Naval Aviation wouldn't be anywhere near what it is today. Steam Catapult, Frank Whittle, and now this.

[@cgaviator]

Thanks 👍🏻

[@shivendrasingh2355]

What an amazing and informative presentation for all of us CG! I used to do this all the time on runways and the free carriers JUST to do it the inventive way the Brits have conceived. You’ve summarised it so wonderfully! Keep it up 😊

[@cgaviator]

Thanks so much, very kind!

[@martinbayliss3868]

The Sea Harrier was doing that 50 years ago. And the flight control system on the f35b was developed by the British and used on the Harrier first.

[@cgaviator]

I’m not sure if it had space on the small carriers to do this?

[@rednaughtstudios]

Sharky Ward has some interesting descriptions of landing the SHAR at night in fog with low fuel during the Falklands conflict. IIRC one landing had the ship shine a light straight up with the SHAR pilot descending into the fog beside it until the deck emerged from the gloom and then hovering sideways until over the deck, then the rest of the way down. Sea Harrier Over the Falklands by Nigel "Sharky" Ward. It'd be interesting to see how the F-35B managed the same situation.

[@cgaviator]

I’m sure the F35 would make it easier! I’m wondering if the F35 can fly the needles in near zero vis.

[@rednaughtstudios]

@@cgaviator You’d hope no vis flying systems have improved since 1982. 🤣

[@cgaviator]

@@rednaughtstudios they have, though the risk appetite is a lot lower! 😅

[@owensmith7530]

@@cgaviator Yeah but we were at war in the Falklands conflict. I'm sure the risk appetite would change if the UK found itself at war again.

[@cgaviator]

@@owensmith7530 yup, it totally would!

[@eldersoul9694]

Smoooooooth... love all the infos you offer within just a few minutes of video. Thank you!

[@cgaviator]

I like to keep it concise! 😁

[@garethroberts9223]

So Cool! Keep the Great content coming!

[@cgaviator]

Will do, it’s like a full time job, but it’s good fun!

[@MisterFXGuy]

Very well put together video and straight to the point. Subscribed! Keep up the high quality content :)

[@cgaviator]

Thank you! I can’t guarantee they’ll all be like this! 😅 But I’ve got some plans and looking forward to it 👍🏻

[@malusignatius]

The Paveways under the wings look nice.

[@cgaviator]

I’m always a fan of hanging stuff under the wings. Very old school!

[@josiahR125]

although I'm not sure who originally came up with the STOL for small carriers. I know that this method has been used for years for AV8B's. I served with vma 542 and deployed on the Bataan and got to see the pilots practice "rolling landings" (i heard a pilot refer to it as such). it's not a preferred method on an Amphibious assault vessel but was always an option and trained for.

[@VhenRaTheRaptor]

IIRC the Amphibs don't have that much room for it. Meanwhile the RN's carriers actually have a fair bit of room on the deck for landing in this way so its much more of a standard procedure.

[@cgaviator]

I’d not heard of that, would be very scary with such a narrow space. Yet the US thought it was a crazy idea to do a rolling landing on deck with an F35! But then I’m only going on third hand info 😅

[@stewartbrown8115]

The brits 1st did this with the Harrier

[@oobenoob]

I’d love to see a video of you doing circuits at WX53. I had a few goes at it this evening and well….. a few scratches to the paint lol.

[@cgaviator]

Not where I’d call home for an F35! 😂

[@yfelwulf]

The B35 Kamakhazi can barely make 54% line ready a true Hangar Queen 35 nan hours of service for every hour if flight only outdone by the F22 Craptor at 40 hours

[@timpaterson2872]

Nice one Chris. Thanks and keep em coming !

[@cgaviator]

Will do 👍🏻👍🏻

[@JimmysSpeedShop]

Looks amazing!

[@cgaviator]

The visuals are quite something!

[@Hail_Full_of_Grace]

Just found the channel and if its more content like this i'll be right at home

[@cgaviator]

Fast jets and flight sims… my wheel house! Though I do through in other stuff occasionally

[@Rabmac1UK]

Wonderful really, no need whatsoever for the Stresses that hooling on to an arrestor wire must inevitably cause.

[@cgaviator]

Well, it’s a bit swings and roundabouts as the benefits of another type also have downsides. Usually add expense!

[@jeremygreenwood2668]

What's that in the water 02:49 Rocky Outcrop or a sub perhaps? It can be seen again briefly at 03:10 on the far left.

[@cgaviator]

Think there is a small island thing around there but it doesn’t render quite right in the sim

[@chrislewis8714]

I was on the ships deck for the first SRVL. It was odd to look at.

[@cgaviator]

Oh that’s awesome! Thanks for commenting. What were you doing? Or just loitering waiting for a crash! 😂

[@chrislewis8714]

@@cgaviator I was there as an engineer for the embarked helicopters. Just happened to witnesd it.

[@cgaviator]

@@chrislewis8714 nice! I’ve not visited a carrier other than museum.

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

Not sure who originally came up with this but we were doing this type of landing in the Harriers and Sea Harriers.

[@cgaviator]

People have mentioned it a few times but I haven’t found any references of harriers doing this onto a deck?

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

@@cgaviator from what I remember the process for landing on an Invicible Class vessel to fly the approach parallel to the deck until along the spit on the deck you were going to land on then slide side ways before dropping down on to the landing spot. All done whilst the ship was underway, a ship not fitted with directable propulsion has to maintain a certain forward speed otherwise it loses controllability in the same way conventional aircraft have a minimum speed were the traditional flight controls lose effectiveness.. You can't do that if you are coming down vertically with no forward motion. The RAF were doing rolling landings to prevent soil erosion at landing sites. Back in 2008 QinetiQ's Harrier T.4 Vectored-thrust Advanced Aircraft Control testbed aircraft to complete shipborne rolling vertical landing trails on the French Navy aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle as part of the programme of tests for the F-35 project. This aircraft was also used stri g ghe 1970s to develop the process of landing Sea Harriers at night and in poor weather.

[@cgaviator]

@@neiloflongbeck5705 roger

[@josephveksenfeld5344]

The British have been doing something similar with the Harriers before they retired them. I wonder why the USMC did not adapt the same practice aboard the LHAs.

[@cgaviator]

They did use the VAAC Harrier to trial it I think. I’m not sure if there’s enough safety margin/space on an LHA? Just guessing

[@EricTFDC]

Inspired by your knowledge. Nice crop at the end 😉

[@cgaviator]

Thanks, really appreciate it 👍🏻

[@XRP747E]

Very nicely done! Great video.

[@cgaviator]

Thank you 🙏🏻

[@ruslan124]

RAF and Royal Navy have been using rolling vertical lands since the introduction of the Harrier.

[@cgaviator]

Yup, but not so far as I can tell, on a ship

[@blazer666del]

​@@cgaviator HMS Illustrious 2008..

[@cgaviator]

@@blazer666del I’ll check it out 👍🏻

[@MercuryCircuit]

Incredible video too. Keep them coming :)

[@cgaviator]

Thanks very much 😁👍🏻

[@JonathanMartin-df2ee]

Awesome vid, I’ll definitely be perfecting that little trick 😉

[@cgaviator]

It’s good fun, especially trying to fly by the numbers (even if I made them up somewhat!) 😅 Enjoy 👍🏻

[@RedBravo65]

Very, very cool. Nicely done.

[@cgaviator]

Thank you kindly 👍🏻

[@get_outdoors]

I love this aircraft, the HUD flickering like that, if you were in VR and went to the external view the camera violently shakes, I’m not sure if this is the sim or aircraft playing up.

[@cgaviator]

Yeah, it’s a bug somewhere. Shame, it’s a bit of an immersion killer

[@yfelwulf]

The Under helm stildies not work pilots claim there is so much crap on 5he visor 5gey can barely see out of the cockpit. The helmet shifts on launch due to faulty nose struts and wheel its 5lb plus weight injures their necks. B35 Kamakhazi the worst failure in the history of military aviation and the RN that has cancelled half its order pretending they can get it to work. If only Benny Hill was still alive imagine the comedy skits he could do. A carrier with no crew and an aircraft that is barely airworthy. 16 years past its official delivery date the US was supposed to get 4250 alone plus its vassals share hundreds more a little over 1200 made all up. Due to be out of service in 2040 that's now 2070. Israelistan 🇺🇲 announced if its vassals want any of the 1000+ faults fixed they will have to pay CASH UP FRONT 🤣 those silly enough to believe this garbage you will be old men before it goes out of service. Britain the "mouse that roared" Kamakhazi? Kama a tribute to Japanese pilots who sacrificed their lives and Khazi UK slang for a toilet.

[@TandNFox]

So simple he says , but in stormy weather this needs greater skill The weather would not always be ideal in a war situation , where air power is needed quickly !

[@cgaviator]

True, but with approach aids this can be done in much worse weather. Or the weapons jettisoned and a more ‘conventional’ hover landing achieved.

[@possumpete]

Sure. Its not perfect, and you may not be able to bring home everything everytime , but it is an excellent start. Remember too that these parameters can be programmed into the individual machine systems, **and the training simulators**. The learning > application , feedback loop is accelerated by excellent test pilots and engineering. This will not only make make it safer, they may even find out it can go even further and in more places, conditions. The US marines in particular will be taking furious notes.

[@ancaplanaoriginal5303]

The F-35B can absolutely hover, the royal navy idea is to burn less fuel, but F-35s are operating from Wasp and America classes using hovering to land

[@cgaviator]

Yup, I think they’re testing for when they need to move serious payload and hovering isn’t an option if they return early or without dropping the weapons.

[@janewilkin1984]

So could the harriers jump jet at a fraction of the price

[@cgaviator]

@@janewilkin1984 I believe the harriers quite often had to drop any unspent weapons prior to landing. And sadly they were subsonic, not stealthy and had very limited sensor capability.

[@CurleeToes]

Surprised you didn’t choose the RAF livery but that one is very nice

[@cgaviator]

Well… I thought about the dambusters one, but that’s against my principle as I’m more of an IX(B) kinda guy! 👍🏻

[@longdarkrideatnight]

The second time the Brits figure out a better way to land.

[@cgaviator]

Brits are good at working around a problem, usually! 😅

[@doozledorf7036]

"Better"? This is completely unnecessary.. the Americans hover these all the time

[@jophussaurus2450]

@@cgaviator No you're not

[@cgaviator]

@@jophussaurus2450 🇬🇧 👍🏻 😜

[@cgaviator]

@@doozledorf7036 yup, but they can’t hover them if they’re too heavy hence why the Brits have developed this approach

[@karstentopp]

All that because of the Admirality insisting on not using CATOBAR...

[@cgaviator]

I think they tried to change their mind, but ultimately having Diesel engines, and a lack of steam for the catapults meant they couldn’t change their mind

[@karstentopp]

@@cgaviator There was an offer on the table of building four nuclear powered CATABAR carriers together with the French as France needed replacement for the Charles de Gaulle. The Charles de Gaulle is considered to be a "mini Nimitz" and was the best carrier outside the US. The CDSG replacement would have been vastly superior to anything the Russians or China would havew been able to build within the next 20 years. Ordering 4 would have made it cheaper, too.

[@amancalleddave.3547]

Love the fact that ship is in my home town.

[@cgaviator]

For real?

[@deputyheadboy1]

Crazy like angled flight decks, steam catapults and landing mirrors.

[@cgaviator]

Landing mirrors? You mean the OLS?

[@deputyheadboy1]

I had the impression that mirrors were used first, could be wrong!

[@cgaviator]

@@deputyheadboy1 ah, no, I misunderstood. Think they used a guy waving white boards first! 😅

[@deputyheadboy1]

Mirrors were the next iteration and superior.

[@glennmurray.]

Interesting videos 👍

[@malusignatius]

I'm a little surprised there's no arrester wires on the QE2s, but having said that, I imagine arrester gear would be impossible to install on the F-35B anyway with the rotating engine.

[@johnnybravo9096]

To do with cost and the battering the air frame takes.

[@malusignatius]

@@johnnybravo9096 I wasn't seeing it for regular use, but to make sure the QE2s had the capacity in case of emergencies or to futureproof the design (should it become relevant down the track, Admittedly, they may well have the capacity to have them installed at a later date, I don't have the knowledge of either the class or ship designing in general to know how feasible that is in the long run.

[@KarlJeager]

@@malusignatius I believe they were supposed to be designed to accommodate catapults and arrestor wires, but some of the mid build political flip flopping seemed to indicate it would be an expensive refit. Of course they probably also wasted a significant amount of what it would cost to do that by doing stupid things like slowing down construction to not spend as much in a year, as if it matters which years budget pays when presumably the country and its tax base will still exist next year.

[@malusignatius]

@@KarlJeager Ahh right, that would make sense.

[@StrikeNoir105E]

@@KarlJeager Harriers never had arresting hooks AFAIK, so why would the F-35B have it? The version that has arresting hooks is the F-35C, and that's meant for US supercarriers that do have the appropriate arresting gear.

[@terryritter7065]

Nice video and great concept. I can see the issues with the nose coming down a bit hard as the first deck contact, but you'd want to be careful with the nose too high as that nozzle and rear doors are likely not too skid resistant. 🙂

[@cgaviator]

Too true! Even F18 approach speeds and alpha are specific to give the perfect amount of nose up attitude to catch the wire.

[@luciusvorenus9445]

Nicely done

[@cgaviator]

Thank you!

[@AA-xo9uw]

"The Americans don't do it, but the British love giving things a go!"(sic) The Brits don't do it either. During CSG 21 all recoveries aboard the QE were vertical. Although the US Taxpayer paid the bill to develop and implement SRVL/Bedford Array code into the F-35B the technique still isn't approved for operational use aboard either of the British boats. One would think that after the F-35B ITF conducted all of those SRVL tests off the coast of Virginia/Maryland back in 2018 that it would have only been a matter of time before it became SOP but nearly four and a half years later that still isn't the case. Recoveries remain stop then land as opposed to land then stop.

[@cgaviator]

That’s crap, sorry I didn’t know it wasn’t operational. Bet if they found an urgent need it would very quickly become SOP!

[@dogsnads5634]

SRVL code was all paid for by the UK Government....a huge amount of coding for F-35 is undertaken by BAE Systems at Samlesbury in the UK...they've been brought in to attempt to fix the mess that LM had made.... The reason why SRVL has not been progressed further is purely due to Prince of Wales propulsion issues. Another round of tests were due off the East Coast of the US last year using the ITF aircraft, of which the UK owns 3, this was postponed as a result of PoW having to go to dry dock. It will be undertaken again once PoW deploys to the East Coast... But the need for SRVL is not that pressing at the moment. As Storm Shadow was removed from the weapons integation work many years ago, due to delays in the JSF programme, the need for bring back of heavy stores has decreased. Current UK air weapons max load on F-35B is around 5,500lbs (6x Paveway IV, 2 x Asraam, 2 x Amraam). In 2028 when Block IV (might) arrive that will increase by about 1,000lbs to c6,500lbs (8 x Spear, 2 x Meteor, 4 x Paveway IV and 2 x Asraam). Both of those figures are easily in the F-35B's vertical landing limits, even in tropical conditions with fuel onboard. And if the F-135 gets the proposed upgrades even more so... As a result SRVL is not required operationally at present, other developments can take the front seat. If and when external tanks, potentially buddy stores and the FCASW munition are cleared on F-35B from 2030 onwards SRVL may then become necessary in some limited circumstances.

[@cgaviator]

@@dogsnads5634 great knowledge, thanks! Definitely need to prioritise carrying more fuel and stores!

[@Then.72]

Jealousy is obviously a part of this ! British boats ? The British carriers who invented most technology from steam catapult, Angled deck , Optical Landing System, Radar , armoured deck, STOVL and actually passed over EMALS from EMKITS but didn’t stick a ridiculous Nuclear Reactor onboard because when you actually take one to war you’ll find out why

[@-rp2pg]

He talks utter 💩trying to say that the USA taxpayers fund everything

[@LostAnFound]

The 35B is so much more incredible than anyone realizes

[@cgaviator]

It gets a bad rep as other than hovering, it’s worse than the C and possibly the A.

[@selfco8142]

Very interesting video, how many F35Bs are in service with the RN ?

[@cgaviator]

RAF and RN share pilots but I think it’s an RAF asset. I think about 40? But that’s a guess

[@selfco8142]

Ok thanks

[@johnwicks4936]

Brilliant video! How do you like the new Miltech UK Carrier pack? They announced their Amphibious group is going to have moving ships soon. Great stuff coming from these guys.

[@cgaviator]

Yeah, I think they’re great! Could use some work on the static aircraft on the deck, but overall they look amazing! Just hope MSFS find it in themselves to promote realistic boat dynamics!

[@yfelwulf]

Britain can't even get crew for its single carrier they can barely get a ship to sea the reason they're pissed at Russia that spoiled their plans to get cheap NAZI made ships from Ukraine. Churchill must be rolling in his grave. B35 Kamakhazi the worst failure in the history of military aviation and the RN that has cancelled half its order pretending they can get it to work. If only Benny Hill was still alive imagine the comedy skits he could do. A carrier with no crew and an aircraft that is barely airworthy. 16 years past its official delivery date the US was supposed to get 4250 alone plus its vassals share hundreds more a little over 1200 made all up. Due to be out of service in 2040 that's now 2070. Israelistan 🇺🇲 announced if its vassals want any of the 1000+ faults fixed they will have to pay CASH UP FRONT 🤣 those silly enough to believe this garbage you will be old men before it goes out of service. Britain the "mouse that roared" Kamakhazi? Kama a tribute to Japanese pilots who sacrificed their lives and Khazi UK slang for a toilet. B35 Kamakhazi the worst failure in the history of military aviation and the RN that has cancelled half its order pretending they can get it to work. If only Benny Hill was still alive imagine the comedy skits he could do. A carrier with no crew and an aircraft that is barely airworthy. 16 years past its official delivery date the US was supposed to get 4250 alone plus its vassals share hundreds more a little over 1200 made all up. Due to be out of service in 2040 that's now 2070. Israelistan 🇺🇲 announced if its vassals want any of the 1000+ faults fixed they will have to pay CASH UP FRONT 🤣 those silly enough to believe this garbage you will be old men before it goes out of service. Britain the "mouse that roared" Kamakhazi? Kama a tribute to Japanese pilots who sacrificed their lives and Khazi UK slang for a toilet.

[@brianperry]

Info...Brits invented the steam catapult, the Angle flight deck.... the best way to land a Corsair F-4U on the deck in WW2..

[@cgaviator]

Good knowledge, I need to try that!

[@Jimmy_Moon]

Brilliant!

[@cgaviator]

Haha… had me for a minute! 19 yrs ago! 😂

[@nicktecky55]

Is ejection in included in the simulator? In the QE TV series, the pilot had a failure on take off, and ejected. Only sheer luck, and a redundant lamp bracket, stopped him going under the ship.

[@cgaviator]

Not in this sim. In DCS World which is a combat flight sim but that doesn’t have as good an F35 model.

[@flybobbie1449]

One of my flying club members son has a F35 pilot as old school friend, his Dad took him flying. Don't know his name, was one of the early pilots.

[@cgaviator]

Not in an F35 I hope! Would be a squeeze! 😂

[@blazer666del]

Rubbish... Its a single seat aircraft

[@georgeallison3264]

This has helped me a great deal

[@cgaviator]

Great to hear 👍🏻

[@pioneer_1148]

The Royal navy has quite a long history of coming up with creative ways to get planes on ships, most notably in WW2 they worked out how to get the Corsair (easily the best carrier aircraft of the war) onto decks despite visibility issues. Btw why can't the Royal navy use arrester wires? I appreciate they have smaller decks than the US carriers which would make it slightly more difficult but I struggle to see what's stopping them.

[@Savoycabbage]

Space and cost are the issues I believe. The arrestor gear takes a lot of internal space under the flight deck which wasn't in the original designs for the QE or PoW - additionally it's costly and time consuming to maintain. The US has the advantage of having a huge carrier fleet and so can afford for one or two of it's carriers to be out of action for maintenance unexpectedly. That's something the RN can't afford.

[@cgaviator]

Apparently the RN went for diesel power. Cats are more reliable with the steam produced from a nuclear propulsion system. Electric cats aren’t as reliable.

[@owensmith7530]

The QE class is diesel and turbojet powered. Those all generate electricity and then large induction motors drive the propellors. It's very similar to the Type 45 propulsion system, IEP or Integrated Electric Propulsion. It was part of the original design brief that QE class should be convertible to electromagnetic cats and traps at some point in the future, but it appears that would be harder than originally intended. The ships are designed for a 50 year life, the F35Bs aren't likely to still be in service then.

[@cgaviator]

@@owensmith7530 they'd better get another jet that can hover then! lol

[@jophussaurus2450]

And you never stop talking about that

[@Lee-70ish]

Whats new . The Corsair F4U was dumped as a carrier plane by the US navy . Until the Royal Navy changed the approach and turned it into a fantastic carrier plane. Finding a solution to improve the landing weight is not a bodge its a bonus.

[@cgaviator]

Yup and yup 👍🏻

[@Belzediel]

I'd have put in an area with powerful upward blowing fans, given a free hand. Mostly to add extra lift, partly so we can launch unruly crew into low orbit.

[@cgaviator]

😂 and then point it backwards for added ship thrust!

[@Belzediel]

@@cgaviator Exactly, see? Everyone thinks giant aircraft lofting fans are a stupid idea until they don't... ;-)

[@cgaviator]

@@Belzediel 😂

[@reecevince2166]

Two. Daring class type 45s

[@cgaviator]

Thanks 👍🏻

[@chrisrowland1514]

fun fact , there is room to fit cats and traps on the QE as they where originally designed to have.

[@cgaviator]

Yup, but sadly they can’t use trap as they would need a large source of steam. Apparently the electric cat isn’t nearly as reliable

[@JohnHughesChampigny]

Yes, but the quoted price for doing it... is about the same as the purchase price of a new carrier.

[@charliedecker7702]

Don't know why they wouldn't fit traps, it works without steam ,that's for cat launch. They would have the option to receive f35c in emergencys either store or helo them off. I suppose they must have a "catch net" if one can't hover and comes in "hot".

[@cgaviator]

@@charliedecker7702 we almost changed to F35C but the politicians changed there mind as it would could cost £2billion more and delay everything by 5 years. I don’t think there’s a barrier either.

[@stuarthendry5397]

I would have used the HMS QE on the Irish sea or Scotland since both are the only moving carriers in the uk at the moment, just for realism.

[@cgaviator]

Yeah, the issue with the moving ones is that I can’t use playback reliably and I’ve found that sometimes moving ship assets stutter when you’re close to them. And I wanted the waypoint which also wouldn’t work if ship moved! 😅

[@stuarthendry5397]

@@cgaviator I found the F35 can track moving waypoints, I can cycle through each waypoint in the F35s pop up menu to switch between ships and as long as I have marked each ship as a waypoint in the main menu before my flight, I'll get my distance and a heading to both the moving ships location where ever they are although there always in roughly the same loction to start with.🙂

[@cgaviator]

@@stuarthendry5397 ah yes, it does drop a waypoint but given enough time, the ship will have moved from it. I was after some fairly accurate ranging this time around. But if I'm just looking for somewhere approximate then the world map waypoints are ok

[@miltechsimulations]

@@cgaviator the stuttering issue is actually a known bug on MSFS with WorldScripts and uncapped FPS. It has been reported to Asobo. As a temporary fix, cap your FPS to 40 or 45 and the stuttering will be gone.

[@cgaviator]

@@miltechsimulations you legend! thanks for letting me know!

[@jjbop4514]

Really nice video ! Would you ever be able to do a video on what settings you use in the sim ?

[@cgaviator]

Settings is easy! Everything on High with perhaps textures, shadow and filtering to ultra 👍🏻

[@jjbop4514]

@@cgaviator Awesome thanks very much ill be sure to give it a go keep up the good work !

[@cgaviator]

@@jjbop4514 Wilco 😁

[@yfelwulf]

Sim is the only place it will ever work B35 Kamakhazi the worst failure in the history of military aviation and the RN that has cancelled half its order pretending they can get it to work. If only Benny Hill was still alive imagine the comedy skits he could do. A carrier with no crew and an aircraft that is barely airworthy. 16 years past its official delivery date the US was supposed to get 4250 alone plus its vassals share hundreds more a little over 1200 made all up. Due to be out of service in 2040 that's now 2070. Israelistan 🇺🇲 announced if its vassals want any of the 1000+ faults fixed they will have to pay CASH UP FRONT 🤣 those silly enough to believe this garbage you will be old men before it goes out of service. Britain the "mouse that roared" Kamakhazi? Kama a tribute to Japanese pilots who sacrificed their lives and Khazi UK slang for a toilet.

[@somethingelse4878]

Looks so real vs my first flight sim flight path on the vic20

[@cgaviator]

It’s getting very good, that’s for sure!

[@somethingelse4878]

@@cgaviator Yes i had to look twice I must get the new msfs, hope my old i7 4790k 1080ti runs it

[@cgaviator]

@@somethingelse4878 I used to run a 980Ti and it did fine without added traffic etc.

[@somethingelse4878]

@@cgaviator Should be okay then 980 was a good card, but let down by lack of ram when TR and the first watch dogs came out If i remember right the ti had 6gb of ram so didn't have a shortage

[@somethingelse4878]

@@cgaviator I'm hoping to use space desk app on the pc and tablet on a few fire tablets as extra screens for msfs, so i have touch panels for some controls Thats if i can move parts of the screen arouund

[@lukewoodside9420]

The Brits were always the best at svtol/vtol. Remember the Harrier is a British invention and was the first jump jet.

[@cgaviator]

Oh yes! 😁

[@TheNemocharlie]

Ah, the cats/ traps argument. Anyone interested in defence procurement should read the story of why 1) The UK has two f**koff carriers, not one; and 2) Why we have no cats or traps and the consequences of that for aircraft procurement and cost.

[@cgaviator]

Significant flip flopping from what I remember. My money would have been on the C, but I’m a massive B fan! Pun not intended! 😅

[@GC987]

Excellent !

[@cgaviator]

Thank you 🙏🏻

[@poiu477]

Imma try this with the harrier in DCS

[@cgaviator]

Recommend a large CVN! 😅

[@Funk8_4]

Fits the motto, "who dares wins."

[@cgaviator]

Very true!

[@Gyyghhhhjjjkk]

Ppl in the comment section still saying that Europeans are more superior than the Americans because of this but let’s be real here. Did we forget who built the f35 first here?😂

[@cgaviator]

Played the top trump card didn’t ya!? 😂

[@Benjd0]

To be fair, a good chunk is UK made, a big part being the vertical lift system which is made by Rolls-Royce. They also did a lot of work on the VTOL control system with the VAAC Harrier which went into the F-35B. One of the reasons the X-35B prototype was first flown by a British pilot from BAE Systems.

[@farmerned6]

Can it land WITH unused ordinance? that was one of the main reasons for buying F-35B instead sticking with Shar

[@cgaviator]

Yes, it can. But when it’s heavily loaded it will use this procedure.

[@s_cycle1921]

Very nice video. Just to add my understanding of why F-35 needs forward flight to land. Its not so much lift from the wings - rather when hovering in place, the air above and around you is already moving downwards because of the downward engine efflux. That means more thrust is required to overcome this (its like a headwind). When moving forward, you are moving into air that is not (yet) moving down, and so the thrust required to hover is lower. Same with helicopters, the quicker you can transition to horizontal flight the lower your hover power. Whether all that is properly represented in MSFS2000 I don't know, someone recently was saying helicopter vortex ring state was not represented - very related topic - so maybe/maybe not.

[@cgaviator]

Not quite. It is due to the extra lift gained from the wings with a bit of forward flight. The air moving down piece is more to do with helicopters and VRS and only a factor if you’re moving down into the descending air too quickly. Moving forwards in a helicopter provides the same extra lift due to forward flight (transitional lift). My knowledge of helos is limited, but back to the original piece, the SRVL is to gain lift from the wings. Hope that made sense! 😅

[@agsystems8220]

The difference between this and a helicopter is the volume of air moved. A helicopter works to move a large volume of air relatively slowly (not that helicopter downwash is slow, but it is nothing on the lift fan wash), while the F35 moves much less air much more quickly. Translational lift and VRS are still technically a thing for it, but the relevant speeds are something like 10x higher. The lift fan is only in 'forward flight' when it gets to around 150mph, and the wings start to contribute well before that.

[@branimirantic3625]

Brits seems to be finding carrier solutions since WW2.

[@cgaviator]

Necessity is the mother of invention for sure!

[@branimirantic3625]

@@cgaviator Throw the broken brick at the Brits, they will patch it up, modify it and kick your ass with it.

[@cgaviator]

@@branimirantic3625 😂

[@doozledorf7036]

@@branimirantic3625 Nah

[@kdenyer1]

Uk used to do same with harriers.

[@cgaviator]

Onto the ships?

[@rkmyersuk]

Superb!

[@cgaviator]

Thanks 🙏🏻

[@rkmyersuk]

Any idea where one can get the charts for case 1, 2 & 3 etc. For F/A-18 (US) ops, I’d check out the NATOPS manual which is publicly available. Is there such a thing for UK Ops 🤔

[@cgaviator]

@@rkmyersuk I don’t think it’s publicly available, I’ve not seen it. I use the NATOPS manual as I’m guessing they’re very similar. And then just follow the profile using G35 techniques 👍🏻

[@rkmyersuk]

Thought that might be the case (no pun intended), thank you!

[@cgaviator]

@@rkmyersuk lol! Oh, forgive the poor typing… not G35 obviously! 😅

[@fivizzano]

BIG doubt about getting enuf lift at 2:15..

[@cgaviator]

Was that for takeoff? I’d agree. The sim isn’t perfect 👍🏻

[@lantinian]

Great Recommendation from KZbin. I am now left wandering how must faster this aircraft can be at and still stop in a safe distance. While the UK carrier don't have a cable to stop, they do have a ramp going up. Could you test and find out the maximum speed that will let you land but stop midway thought the ramp? The reason I am curious is that can be used to allow bringing back even higher weight payloads.

[@cgaviator]

I doubt for many reasons they’d choose to go faster. And they don’t need to carry too much extra in terms of payload. The flight model/pitch angle on approach in STOVL mode would make the nose hit first so it would look ugly. I could give it a go. Have a carrier landing trial video!

[@JohnHughesChampigny]

The ramp is for takeoff -- if you use it for landings too you'll halve your sortie rate.

[@lantinian]

@@JohnHughesChampigny The maximum possible sortie rate yes. Carrier don’t always operate at the maximum sortie rate.

[@markhbeardsley5102]

When there were multiple comments that the Japanese Destroyer Carriers could not land F-35B's without melting the deck I wondered why they did not make their approaches like this.

[@cgaviator]

I’m sure there are other reasons. Maybe size of carrier? Risk appetite?

[@markhbeardsley5102]

@@cgaviator Possibly length of the flight deck contributed to the problem with the Izumo Class? The figures are 1092' length overall for a Nimitz Class carrier vs. 932' length overall for the Elizabeth Class vs. 844' for the America Class LHA 814' for the Izumo Class. Overall length is not flight deck length but it gives us a yardstick to work with. So if a rolling landing would work on the Elizabeth Class it might work just as well on the Izumo. It definitely works on the Elizabeth as is shown here. I think the problem may be a version of "it wasn't made here!" where the Americans refuse to take a good idea that was originated by the Brits making the best use of a slightly smaller carrier. Maybe the USN could make rolling landings on the America Class and speed up aircraft recovery rate in so doing but just can not get past the bureaucratic inertia that they have built up. I do not know why the Japanese would fail to do so, though.

[@blameusa7082]

sweet chilli sauce is so good i eat it on its own!

[@blameusa7082]

also who would fly a plane with an ipad for a instrument display, sh17 the bed

[@cgaviator]

@@blameusa7082 you sound almost as old school as me! 😅

[@justaguy4real]

Why always turn to left when landing?

[@cgaviator]

What do you mean? You have this issue? Have you made sure rudder is central on landing and the wind isn’t an issue?

[@HeliShed]

Awesome - ppm is flickering due to DLSS3 and frame generation i think you'll find??

[@cgaviator]

Thanks, and I wouldn't know my DLSS3 from my elbow! Lol

[@HeliShed]

@@cgaviator in which case pal, it's not that. ;-)

[@vaughanellis7866]

I have to wonder what Lockheed Martin thought the first time they saw a British pilot do this? Was it a 'They shouldn't be able to do that!!' moment?

[@cgaviator]

I guess theoretically it should always be possible. Just takes some necessity to actually try it!

[@eloquentlyemma]

I was just doing a KZbin trawl and came across this video. It’s not my usual interest, but I did enjoy it. However, I do have a couple of questions: Is there a reason that you put down the landing gear before you finished making your final turn? and, Does this have an effect on the handling of the plane at that speed? I would have though it would have been better to leave the landing gear up until your final approach, but there’s obviously something that I am missing here. Thank you for taking time to read this comment.

[@cgaviator]

There’s a little bit of technique going in here. Usually this would be a Case 1 approach as I mentioned and the gear would be lowered as soon as rolling out downwind. The other option is a full straight in or instrument approach where the aircraft would be established at 1200ft and 12 miles and configured between 9-11 miles ish. I did a mix of both as I didn’t want to lengthen the video by going all the way to 12 miles. There’s no issue with dropping the gear where I did. From what I understand the aircraft would auto trim (normally you’d expect the aircraft to climb when flap is lowered, though flap is automatic in this aircraft). So it shouldn’t be too much extra effort for the pilot. Hope that answers the question?

[@mongoose388]

Brits figured out how to land F4U Corsairs in WW2 before the US NAvy did.

[@cgaviator]

So I hear, I’m going to have to try that!

[@johnbrewer8954]

@@cgaviator It isnt true, one of those aviation myths that just wont go away, and I am a Brit.

[@cgaviator]

@@johnbrewer8954 from what I’ve seen, US could land them but not as safely as desired. Brits found a better way via an arcing final?

[@krusty1974]

What's the pilot doing onboard this thing again? I must have missed it.

[@cgaviator]

Lol, apparently messing it up on most occasions! 😂

[@jc441-i3q]

I wish the Royal navy chose to employ CATOBAR systems for the two carriers. I know that it would significantly increase the costs but carriers are expensive to construct and operate anyway so you may as well make the ships as capable as possible. Right now they're just not as capable as they could have been.

[@cgaviator]

Doesn’t matter if we don’t have enough jets to up the ship borne sortie rate 😒

[@jc441-i3q]

@@cgaviator Haha. I was thinking more about the AWACS aircraft, they can't take off or land on these carriers, so a helicopter is used instead, - which isn't ideal. Oh well.

[@blazer666del]

Not viable at Time of launch EMALS doesn't work properly yet. So uk went with STOVL . EMALS will probably be installed at a future major refit along with f35c or similar.

[@blazer666del]

​@JPaulC Actually helicopter version has advantages. You can have several helos linked together providing a larger surface picture, and if helo is shot down it can quickly be replaced with another

[@B-A-L]

@@blazer666del Plus a helicopter can hover instead of having to fly in an orbit in order to maintain a radar picture.

[@charleslambert3368]

Can you land on St Helen's Fort?

[@cgaviator]

I don’t think it was modelled properly. Either flat or an apartment block! 😂 I did put my nose wheel on the top of the Burj Khalifa though! 😁