Top 10 Casual Two-Player Games

[@smsix]

I really like Mike on these top 10's. Great trio.

[@johnpruett865]

Me too - but miss Sam

[@EfrainRiveraJunior]

I still miss Sam. Mike would have been a great forth musketeer.

[@jdtyler7]

Mike is amazing!

[@heathwashburn194]

"If you put a camel in candy land..." 🤣

[@robertbouley7697]

Good guys, all ‘round.

[@atomiccritter6492]

I say it again Mike is the best addition to the Dice Tower

[@JD-td8kl]

LOVE Mike.

[@matthew4031]

Love for mike!!!

[@nikitaxexe6058]

Totally agree 👍

[@cjharris30]

Great list, and I think Mike's approach makes sense. Average BGG ratings: Mike 1.58, Zee 1.66, and Tom 1.98.

[@matthew4031]

Mmmmmm that’s good data

[@Cameronwatt]

For me a casual game is a game I can teach in under 3 minutes to someone who is usually slightly drunk and keeps saying ahhh we just start.

[@GamerLisa]

Lol yes

[@jusatin]

Exactly. And sadly some of these definitely aren't casual games.

[@unlimitedrabbit]

You definitely want Mandala.

[@ks3333]

agree.

[@pringuskhan4181]

Let's go Mike! Complexity is an important factor to determine a Casual game so it's much appreciated

[@jackabbott7295]

Mike I care about the BGG weight rating. I got your back.

[@MoriMemento117]

Me too. Player count is more important, but having a crowd sourced number to give me an idea of the difficulty of the game is also really handy. Of course, keeping in mind the genre of game is also important as wargames will maybe skew low at times. But if I don't have time to watch reviews, weight rating is invaluable.

[@atomiccritter6492]

I think Mike approached it well

[@taba1208]

We always consider the complexity weight on BGG. We know out threshold!

[@Tsumiffy]

Great recommendations across the board. Really like that each one of you have your own diverse thought process about it as well. Props to Roy for doing an amazing job behind the scenes. Really ups the bar of these videos.

[@yannickmartin2315]

I do not agree that BGG weight ranking is total garbage. I think it's a neat asset that gives a pertinent idea of the game complexity. Sure, it is not a scientific classification and a argument over a game with a rate of 2,45 is objectively more complex than another rated 2,35 would be totally pointless. However, I know that a game rated 2,50 will not give the same experience as one rated 1,25 and another one rated 4,15. Roughly, I would said that a gap of 1 point between 2 games indicate that these 2 games aren't on the same level of complexity. Below that, I expect the games to be more or less the same complexity. All this to say that it's a useful tool. At least, as useful as the length rate.

[@MoriMemento117]

Very well put! I think for a reviewer who plays all of the games, bgg weighting might be of little use and frustratingly inaccurate. But like you said, it is about as accurate as a review number gets. I. E. "Most people rate *this* game more complex than *these* games." I also find it fascinating how weight rankings can somewhat indicate how heavy a gamer typically is. I would be hard pressed to find a game in my collection outside of the 2.3-4.5 range. My girlfriend has even commented when we play light games that she thought it was too light. And she probably wouldn't play anything over roughly a 3.8. So even she has an optimal, typical range, it would appear to me. Of course, this varies with the group setting and how you're feeling, but game weight is important!

[@intrepidfool]

Agreed. My family has found that the weightings on BGG match up well with the rough complexity of the game. It is easy to differentiate a Spirt Island from a Wingspan at a glance. We have found it quite useful when considering purchasing a game or pulling a game off the shelf to try out at our local hobby store (that has hundreds of games available to play).

[@rustyshackleford634]

I disagree with this. The BGG heavy rating has not been helpful for me when deciding what games to get for my family. For example, my family plays Caverna (weight 3.79) without really any rules headaches, however, they struggle with Small World (weight 2.59) and Cosmic Encounter (weight 2.57). Dead of Winter (3.01) has been nearly impossible to get through to them, yet they adore Root and Kemet (3.69 and 3.00)! I believe that the heavy rating isn't especially helpful because it actually attempts to describe to concepts; rules difficulty and rules depth. Caverna is relatively simple in terms of its core mechanisms, but its heft comes from the sheer volume of choice/depth! While Small World and Cosmic Encounter both are thoughtful games in their own right, things like card timing for powers/cards in hand for Cosmic Encounter can make the game extremely confusing with its many phases! I don't feel like the heavy rating exhibits this well, which makes the rating appear nigh arbitrary to me.

[@friedrichschumann740]

@@rustyshackleford634 And what kind of heaviness rating would you give to these games? Beware, you can only give whole numbers. And for sure, the rating doesn't address if the game is difficult due to its many rules or its depth. Still, it gives a good impression of what you can expect.

[@rustyshackleford634]

@@friedrichschumann740 Well that’s partially the issue. I think the heavy rating should be split up into those two categories. The heavy rating is more helpful on the extremes, with pointing out extremely hard to enter games (usually coming in at around 4.5) and extremely light games (below a 2). However, anywhere in the middle I feel like it becomes an ambiguous mess. You ask me to rate those games, but with the heavy rating I have an extremely hard time doing so. For example, Small World is an example where the rules (specifically the decline mechanism) makes the game more rules complex. It’s also a game where some people would end up with an analysis paralysis problem similar to the reason one might in Five Tribes. For some people, Small World could be a 4-5 for these reasons, for me I would probably put it at a 3. Another example of the weirdness that is the BGG weight system is Hive and Chess (2.33 and 3.70). Hive has opening theory just like chess does, and to learn the pieces and odd rules of hive is arguably more difficult than chess, bar maybe en passant.

[@dhmcarver]

Great lists -- glad you all have re-visited this, as I am one of those who almost always play two-player. Surprised that Fox in the Forest and Star Realms/Hero Realms did not make anyone's list, as they are both excellent introductory two-player games. Learned a couple of new games to track down, which is always a plus. Thanks, you all.

[@taba1208]

Some of our recent 2 player favorites: Fugutive, Jaipur, Hive, Istanbul, patchwork, splendor, Santa Monica, welcome to.., onitama, wingspan, kingdomino

[@hanseathl]

I consume a ,ot of gaming content on KZbin but there is nearly nothing meeting my enjoyment of those top 10 videos by far. I simply like the format and the chemistry is just on spot. Great. Thanks Dudes. The only thing I enjoy more is the Secret Cabal Podcast.

[@MrJenssen]

Thanks for doing more lists for 2-player games! I feel like it's often hard to find games specifically designed for two players, and often they haven't been (video) reviewed or talked a lot about, and it's just hard to find out whether they are any good at all.

[@thepardoner2059]

Mike is correct about the game weight rating. We find it quite useful.

[@lotsofspoons]

The banter in both these two player top 10 lists is on point!

[@serspecs]

Great pick with Codenames duet. My wife and I call this our dinner game. We are going through the full map and have been at it for over two years now... It is not easy to get some of those though cities, but man it makes it even better. Best code names game hands down and again, excellent choice!!

[@violentfrog_]

when Mike said "First game I bought myself when I was getting into the hobby" my first thought was "Oh, gotta be the Royal game of Ur, maybe Senet"

[@jeffreymishra-marzetti9194]

I like so many of the games on all of your lists. Love that Zee included Archaeology. I think that one gets looked over often. The only two games that you guys didn't include are Hanamikoji and Air, Land and Sea. I'm looking forward to your next more gamers version.😁

[@tonkabeanicecream5698]

The dice tower are my favourite reviewers by a huge margin. Especially Tom, Zee and Mike. The holy trio.

[@GameWeekendChalbie]

When you started talking about “casual“ games I had the exact same thought as Mike. I would’ve used BGG‘s complexity rating and not going above a two. I was so happy when you said that Mike because I had the exact same thought before you said it. Good source and a good cut off

[@adamrosenquist9531]

Casual, my definition as it pertains to board games: easily taught/learned and doesn’t require much of a commitment of time or money.

[@GamerLisa]

Yes most of what they said hard to teach.

[@LEGnewTube]

Ahhh, the list I've been waiting for! Thanks guys.

[@keel1701]

A casual game is a game which can be learned by any two people (who are capable of reading and following a rulebook) regardless of their background or history with board games, and they can learn the game separately and (generally) come to the same conclusion in how the game works. An "advanced" game requires at least one player to understand games already and typically has them teach it.

[@keel1701]

To illustrate my point further, Tom's #7 (7 Wonders Duel) he says "when someone doesn't understand the card, I can tell them because its right there." If a game requires someone to understand/translate symbols for the other, its no longer casual. TL;DR Tom is wrong

[@jerrodwarr9706]

Lost Cities is a classic I used to play a bunch and got early in the hobby. And I’m probably biased, but one game that I also used to play a ton back in the day but never gets mentioned is Balloon Cup. I’m always kind of surprised I guess.

[@timborocksloud]

Man...what a great list!! As someone married to a "casual at best" gamer....always on the hunt for more quality games that don't take hours to teach and play. Jaipur is a favorite of ours, I love Memoir 44, agree with Tom it's a great 2 player casual wargame. My wife LOVES 7 wonders duel, so it's definitely a casual game. :)

[@RG-sv4qb]

Okay, everyone loves Mike... But let's not forget zee. I really like what zee brings.

[@joshuastauffer9334]

@Benet Tribble 🎵Zee García, voice of the people!🎵

[@warholcow]

Love these videos. The banter is so fun as are hearing the rankings!

[@mikecarroll5980]

Tom points out that there are BGG users that rank games as low weight because they play heavy games. Then he proceeds to essentially do that with half of his list here. 😂

[@pm71241]

But Tom is right... I increasingly find myself agreeing with Tom and disagreeing with the rest of the DT crew (especially Zee). Take the Targi example... Tom is right... It doesn't need to be lighter. There's this unhealthy trend of trying to make hobby gaming into some sort of Rocket science you need to be slowly trained in. No! ... If you have the motivation, basically any board game is possible to learn as your first.

[@JolienReads]

Great picks! Some that I have enjoyed and didn't make your lists would be Fox in the Forest and Hanamikoji. I really enjoy playing Kingdomino, Istanbul the Dice Game, and Port Royal with my husband as well but I think those might be just as good or better with more players. An odd one I actually like best with two but everyone things I'm crazy is Citadels haha. I only want to play it as a 2-player game.

[@Murkaeus]

Tom doesn't give BGG weights enough credit. It doesn't tell the whole picture, but they are fairly consistent and accurate. Just because he doesn't understand how they work doesn't make them wrong. Funny enough, the games that Tom got pushback on picking had weights over 2 despite no one knowing that. (And while Zee didn't protest, he was clearly hesitant about Memoir '44 and Funkoverse, the other two games Tom picked with weight over 2). I think Mike was perfectly justified using a simple metric like BGG weights as a guide to picking games, and I'm sure that wasn't his only consideration.

[@deenahitchens6531]

Would love to see a top 10 list of games to play with grandparents too

[@mikkerdtm9878]

I am missing Hive in this list. My favorite casual 2 player game. Easy to carry around, easy to teach and playable on almost any table/surface.

[@rustyshackleford634]

I feel like Hive is casual as long as you haven’t gotten into the theory scene of the game..

[@ThunderStruck15]

The rule book is too much of a mess to be casual

[@j.prt.979]

For many two-player abstract strategy games there’s a casual side and there’s a very complex side. Hive is one of those. So is Onitama in my opinion. For that reason I would never put most on this kind of a list, even if they’re easy to learn and play. Mastery brings out a lot of depth.

[@hugocruz2439]

I love Hive but wouldn't consider it casual. I can teach it and is easy to learn but i got to deep on theory so i would never lose to someone new. Is like chess, easy to learn, imposible to master

[@adamg4912]

Yeah, 7 Wonders Duel and Targi are slightly too complex to be labelled "casual" and while some would say they're too light to be "strategic", they can compete with any two-player strategy game (especially with expansions). When I think casual, I'm thinking Fox in the Forest, Archaeology, Point Salad, Conspiracy: Abyss Universe, PARKS...The most "complex" game that I would put on this list is Unmatched because everything about it is easy to grasp, it has a very casual feel and is lightning quick to set up and take down.

[@brumbala08]

I think Mandala was a great pick from Zee. We bought it after his review and love it. My husband always says it feels like a classic card game to him, like rummy.

[@StevenLambertK]

Mike: 10. Let's Make a Bus Route: The Dice Game 9. Klask 8. Codenames: Duet 7. Jaipur 6. Schotten Totten 5. Onitama 4. Odin's Ravens 3. Santorini 2. Patchwork 1. Lost Cities (2 player) Zee: 10. Tides of Time 9. Village Green 8. Jaipur 7. Holmes: Sherlock & Mycroft 6. Century: Spice Road 5. Mandala 4. Tatsu 3. Kariba 2. Lost Cities (2 player) 1. Archaeology: The New Expedition Tom: 10. Shōbu 9. MicroMacro: Crime City 8. Memoir '44 7. 7 Wonders Duel 6. Funkoverse Strategy Game 5. Chronicles of Crime 4. Battle Line [is the same game as Schotten Totten] 3. Targi 2. Paperback 1. Onitama People's Choice: 10. The Fox in the Forest 9. Onitama 8. Santorini 7. Wingspan 6. Star Realms 5. Lost Cities (2 player) 4. Targi 3. Patchwork 2. Jaipur 1. 7 Wonders Duel

[@BMB57]

This hurts their viewership. If you care about this channel you should not summarize the content of it

[@searose6192]

1:03:45 Onitama definitely gives me the chess vibes in a bad way. It makes me feel dumb for sure. (I have only played the app if that matters) Santorini however is fun. I am going to check out tatsu.

[@benjaminspears8488]

Agree with Mike about Codenames: Duet. We often play this with 2 or 4 players and it works great! Another great casual 2-player game is Pocket Ops- which is a fun twist on tic-tac-toe. We also like Paperback, but it usually feels a bit long to be casual. Surprised that Tom didn’t pick Blitzkrieg! Pretty much every roll and write could be on this list as well.

[@Edward1140]

These top tens are so enjoyable. Thank you.

[@jaredmartin9199]

Fun fact! Kariba and KLASK actually have a LOWER weight than Candy Land on BGG. Candy Land has a 1.11.

[@ClaraMBarker]

wish i had caught this one live. Odins Ravens was the first game that came to my mind for this, glad it got a mention. Good call on Archeology too, i'd forgotten about that but it's been in my collection a long while. I would add 7W Duel too though - was my second pick

[@richie7823]

Great to see Tatsu getting some recognition. Absolutely love that game - played close to 100 times now and is still our go-to holiday/pub game.

[@julienbeaudry]

Zee casually mentioning the hand limit rule of Jaipur made me realize I played over 30 games completely wrong. I think it will make it even better.

[@rexgoodheart3471]

Looks like you ignored the most important rule in the game. :) Give it a go the correct way, you won't be sorry.

[@lilyblanco9525]

Great video! A little rough on Mike this time, but hopefully he doesn't take it to heart. Anyway, I would've had Martian Dice on my list because it's super casual and so much better with just two players. You don't have to wait long for your next turn like you do with more players.

[@dankelly]

This same argument came up three years ago... 7 Wonders Duel isn't a "casual" game. It's a GREAT game, but not a casual game.

[@robertbouley7697]

When I heard about this list, that was the first game I thought of - because of who I play it with. Then I immediately had a similar debate in my head if it was appropriate or not. Semantics maybe, but it was a fun struggle.

[@homosapsap]

Yeah totally.. And Targi! Another great game but casual? Cmon..

[@comsiege4113]

Yeah. Putting Duel there is just absurd

[@rickthompson3843]

I agree. I play it every few months and I still spend a lot of time during the game looking at the rulebook for symbology and rules both.

[@adamg4912]

Duel (and the expansions) are my all-time favourite game...and while I feel confident that I could teach it to most, this is definitely not a game I could easily play with most of my family members, whereas Fox in the Forest, Archaeology, etc. are much, much easier to get them to play and enjoy.

[@chinauzer41]

Really enjoyed the chemistry of these three for this list

[@ajw5388]

I know Mike has been around a while now, but I have to say that when Sam left I was really bummed, but Mike has been a fantastic new addition ever sense. He fit in so well and really kept these top 10’s as the same very entertaining hour of banter and game knowledge that they always were.

[@hyvll]

He also shake the somewhat sammy feel those top 10 were sometimes leaning in. ... And as a solo gamer myself, I value his opinions a lot.

[@BassForever]

You can play codenames duet with the pictures, my set just has all my codenames stuff in one box.

[@RadishTheFool]

How did you fit it all in? I was planning on doing that, but with two games it was already too stuffed to close the lid properly. The third one definitely required an extra box.

[@junkjunk81]

@@RadishTheFool it is a tight fit, but you can get base codenames, pictures, and duet all in one box. You just have to discard the zip-top bags and accept that the base/duet word cards will be mixed together. If you have access to a 3D printer, there is an insert design on Thingiverse that organizes it all and makes it fit.

[@BassForever]

@@RadishTheFool custom inserts, or just get a bigger box. I also have half of my codenames in a quiver so I can take it with me.

[@Dusty-Zafu]

The look of disapproval on Zee’s face when Mike said “Let’s Make a Bus Route” was hilarious

[@estherpettigrew3042]

In addition to their descriptions, I’d say that casual games are also those you can play while you are having a conversation. It does not take your full attention.

[@1skitch1]

Quacks of Quedlinburg seems like a good candidate for this list. It doesn't feel any more combotastic than Century. Maybe the number of small things happening between each round of grabbing stuff from a bag push it higher than casual.

[@danieljp9694]

Is quacks good with two players? I’ve wanted it for a long time but rarely play games with more than two.

[@MrHalstedt]

Mandala and Hive have been our most played games, hands down. Great for taking on holiday

[@unlimitedrabbit]

Targi, Air, Land & Sea and Onitama are worth a try, too.

[@Spudkitty513]

I gotta add some games to the pile ... Forbidden Desert, Hanimakoji, Karuba, Potion Explosion, Jamaica, and . When new players arrive for game night, these are the ones, along with Jaipur, that get put on the table.

[@olivierjodoin2283]

That was one of the most entertaining top10 I've watched, good job guys! And completely agree with Zee and Mike, 7 Wonders Duel and Targi are definitely NOT casual games. Way too much stuff going on.

[@josiahsterling7308]

Supprised he didn't put gloomhaven on the list

[@adamg4912]

@@josiahsterling7308 "Come on, Jaws of the Lion is the casual version!" I can actually hear Tom saying this lol

[@ThunderStruck15]

7 wonders duel was literally the first modern board game I played, and I considered it incredibly simple, and dumb. Not sure why that would be considered complex

[@modemacabre]

Looking at these lists I definitely think Tom had the heaviest list, which is totally fine with me. I would say that I'm looking forward to the Heavy Two-Player Game video, but I already watched that :)

[@aprilw2287]

Great lists, guys! I think all picks are valid and Tom's "heavier" games are acceptable and would be too light for the complex games list (even if I disagree with him about the usefulness of the BGG weight ratings! :p).

[@Shaddex]

Top 10 Wallet Wreckers (expensive games) would be a good list

[@WanderingKumquat]

10. Kickstarter game 9. Kickstarter game 8. Kickstarter game 7. Kickstarter game 6. Kickstarter game 5. Kickstarter game 4. Kickstarter game 3. Kickstarter game 2. Magic The Gathering 1. Heroscape

[@Edward1140]

I agree. I also liked the idea of top ten games you’d buy your enemy, even though it was said in jest.

[@comsiege4113]

Arent they all? :p

[@JB-ym4up]

Kingdom death monster Xwing Armada Star wars legions War hammer 40k War hammer AoS In no particular order

[@phloog]

To say the BGG numbers are garbage doesn't necessarily hold up...not sure how it's much different than any polling data. Bob might give Game X a 5 and Sue gives it a 1, but across enough evaluations it should shake out. Unless someone can point to a specific systematic issue/bias I don't know why you should avoid it.

[@koalabrownie]

I think Tom's problem with the complexity scale can be solved by one simple thing- to realize that the complexity curve is probably a bell curve, not a linear one. Because a lot of people are probably going to rank something 2-3. Star Fleet Battles is one of the most complex games around but it's only 4.25, Harpoon is only about a 4.3

[@dsarrazin]

When you play these types of games, either with kids or "newbies", do you ever loose on purpose for whatever reason (make them happy, increase the likelyhood they will play again, etc.)

[@danacoleman4007]

Never

[@danacoleman4007]

Thanks for all the fun, guys!!!!

[@tristancaneris6270]

I feel like this is dice tower back at their best. Everyone looked like they were having fun and there were plenty of laughs. I think everyone has been putting in so much effort with the spectacular and moving the studio that everyone has appeared a bit tired lately and less enthused about making the videos.

[@TheHallbjorn]

So surprised to not see any version of Carcassonne on anyone's list--I thought it was the quintessential casual couples game (my wife and I would take it to coffee shops to relax with a drink). I used to play the classic version with expansion, but I think Hunters & Gatherers is my pick now. Is the game just out of fashion? It's nice because you can play it as mean or as gracious as you prefer. Star Realms has a big recommendation from me and in my opinion it completely replaces Dominon and I never care to play Dominion again. My controversial pick for a "casual" couples game is Hadrian's Wall. I know there's a lot going on, but ultimately it's just checking boxes that match the meeples you have. Very relaxing and easy to grasp once you get past the initial look, and I would never consider it a terribly competitive game.

[@thedicetower]

For me and my wife, it ain't casual. :)

[@OlafVonBarto]

Tom, Memoir 44 is in the secret middle list at best, but dude, casual game? I don't think so. And I'm stretching here. I'm dealing with UNO people here, c'mon!

[@UberTastical22]

When Mike turned to the camera and proclaimed "That's Right!", I knew we were getting the DiLisio experience.

[@mrcoaster1]

Mine was on fire in this one. Zee usually has some great moments, but loved Mike in this episode. Great lists, all three.

[@tempestfury8324]

In general I agree (even with Tom's Memoir '44) with the lists. I especially like Lost Cities, Onitama, and BattleLine. But here's some that are awesome two player games that weren't even mentioned: Hive Naga Raja Flick 'em Up Ice Cool Project L and my #1......The Duke!!!!

[@nicka.9057]

I love Hive, but after I got very good at the game my girlfriend stopped playing with me after her third total lockout. It has a skill gap in thr same way chess does. I do hope it's on the competitive 2 player list thougj.

[@tempestfury8324]

@@nicka.9057 : Hive does have a "skill gap", just like chess or the Duke. Winning isn't everything because having fun is more important with games. So, you have a few options....play stupid to allow your partner a chance to win, just allow it to be a friendly game, or choose a game that is based upon randomness rather than tactics. Naga Raja is a great two player game and might be something you and your wife might enjoy.

[@AgentKuo]

For me, a casual game would be something that: •Is easy to learn/teach or gameplay is intuitive •plays in a short amount of time (15-45 minutes) •something that doesn't take a ton of brain power or strategizing. And could, but doesn't necessarily have to be: •Relaxing •Silly (doesn't take itself too seriously in mechanics or theme) When I think of casual, I think, okay I've got a little extra time, let's play a quick game, nothing too complicated. I also think of games I could play with my family/relatives without them looking at me like 🥴

[@thedorkydoodlesden]

Ooo, Funkoverse... I'd love to see a "Games that died too soon" top 10 list. Battlelore 2nd Edition, Funkoverse and Rivet Wars would all be on that list for me!

[@LilBoyHexley]

We almost solely play Santorini without the God powers. It's mostly just been a fun pure abstract game where we can pit our wits against each other with the wonderfully simple rulseset. We've only used God powers a few times for a sort of wildcard game to spice things up, but without was always the standard.

[@wendyisgrowinginwisdom6350]

I am looking forward to playing coop game Bandida that Mike mentioned - jail escape. A nice polyomino game that has a great theme is Subway Squeeze. My favourite word game is Mystic Paths.

[@Lanthanaas]

I think Memoir 44 is a bad choice for "casual" simply because of the volume of pieces. Setup and take down time adds 20 minutes. Casual should be set up in 5 minutes or less and play in less than half an hour, in my opinion.

[@heissenbadger]

It's funny that I would have almost entirely chosen abstract strategy games for this, cause so many of them have very simple rules, like Kamisado, Kick It, Blocks, Moeraki Kemu or really most anything from Gerhards

[@6kidsand8cupsofcoffee]

As a non gamer giving me the game complexity score gives me an entry point.

[@danacoleman4007]

The Duke No Thanks Red 7 Dragonwood

[@JaKamps]

Is Hive no longer in style, bc it deserves to be! Brave Rats is also missing from this list imo.

[@derekduran9086]

Mandala is the best casual two player to me. The player’s control over the card’s point worth at the end is awesome. Very classic card game feel to it, but at the same time it has a modern feel to it as well. This game also makes a great “not too serious” coffee conversation game for couples too. Highly recommend it. Would make an ideal app. It’s up there with Jaipur.

[@shaneannigans]

I'm starting to think that if they did the Top 10 games with space battles, 'The People' will still try and vote Wingspan onto the list 🙄

[@suorastas1]

Which habitat will the Klingon bird of prey go into?

[@jdtyler7]

Justify that it doesn't have to be "outer space" and there you go. It's on the list.

[@doggosplosion]

Wingspan was also voted best minivan of the year by gamers.

[@MoriMemento117]

Space Birbs!

[@shaneannigans]

@@Arjay82 One can only hope-especially as it's been more than a month 😆

[@JaKamps]

Finally Odin's Ravens getting some much deserved love!

[@jdtyler7]

Had about 25 games make the short list. 1. Star Realms 2. Biblios 3. Jaipur 4. Azul 5. Splendor 6. Kingdomino 7. Ticket to Ride: New York 8. Dead Man's Draw 9. Archaeology: The New Expedition 10. 5211 Honorable mention: Ohanami

[@Karak-Fak]

Extra caveats for casual definitively have to include; set up time, length of game and whether you can teach it to practically anyone. Memoir does not fit in my definition. I do understand where Tom is mostly coming from though.

[@adamg4912]

Thanks for those added criteria. I think it's why Unmatched feels very casual. Lightning quick set up/take down, games are very short, rule set is simple, board is clean...it's just learning how to play your character but I guess that's like the Street Fighter video games. Memoir, Duel, Targi, they are the games that feel "in between" the connotations of "Top 10 Casual" and "Top 10 Strategic"

[@Karak-Fak]

@@adamg4912 couldn’t agree more. Set up is a big deal for me. Unmatched is a more apt choice.

[@natecress4226]

Love Roam at 2.

[@kevinray6575]

I'm not sure these three have even played it. IIRC Sam did the review.

[@conanross]

Have you guys tried/ liked the new game Mob?

[@ralelunar]

My Top 10 Casual Two-Player Games list is also my Top 10 Travel Games list. Jaipur is #1, we manage to fit it on two tray tables and just play the entire flight or train ride.

[@djbobilicious4730]

A good old game I still enjoy is Rummy. I can teach it in 5 minutes. It can be very thinky or played simply wether you want it or not. It can be played up to 4 players but it is very enjoyable 1 vs 1.

[@theinqov]

Codenames Duet is brilliant. A few years ago I bought a bunch of games for me and my then girlfriend to play; I got a range of totally different types of games, Codenames Duet was one of them. It's brilliant. It was about the only thing that tamed her animosity ;) I also played it with my Dad after he had a stroke and it was a good exercise for both of us, and produced funny moments too. With the exgf... I said "nose, 2." "what kind of stupid clue is that? How am I su...? There's noth.... I .... I don't.... ok, CHEESE" "Yes" She got the second one too, also a bit abstract, but I don't remember what it was. Super fun.

[@augustkreiv1640]

All the grief Tom gave Mike about using the BGG complexity scale became a moot point when 7 Wonders Duel came up on his list. Maybe he should have utilized the scale himself. 😆

[@brennansmith8085]

Top ten list suggestions: -game designers (updated) -games where mechanisms and themes mesh well

[@easterneuropeantracksuit3312]

How about top ten favorite artists

[@zacdredge3859]

1:10:15 Well to answer that you could try playing Patchwork Express. 😅

[@johnbrown6230]

I really like the following proper 2 player casual games (not multiplier games played at 2): Codenames Duet, 7 Wonders Duel, Memoir 44, Air, Land and Sea, Hanamikoji, Battleline/Schotten Totten, Patchwork, Lost Cities, Onitama, Targi and Jaipur.

[@jr637-1]

Onitama is definitely one of my favorites, especially if you want to throw in expansions as they get a feel for the game. My other favorites that weren't mentioned are The Fox in the Forest and Quarto.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

48:43 Sorry Tom, I have to disagree with you. Just because chess has a “metagame” culture right now doesn’t mean that it can’t be played at a “casual” level. Just because it is played at the club level with a bunch of formalities (punching a clock, playing a tournament, etc.) does not mean that I can’t just invite my friend over so that we can play a game or two. I mean, you could make the same argument about ping pong. You could say that it is not casual because everyone plays it around the world and takes it seriously (particularly in China) - known as “table tennis” - so therefore it cannot be “casual”. However, I could also just invite my friend over to my basement so that we can play just a “casual” game of “ping pong” - which is played at a different level (skill-wise, training-wise, competitiveness-wise, etc). Does that mean that you cannot play it “casual[ly]”? (I think I just answered that).

[@thedicetower]

Yes, you can play Chess casually. I have yet to meet anyone who does.

[@JJ_TheGreat]

@@thedicetower Non-Board Gamers!!!!

[@RadikalKit]

I was able to teach my mom 7 wonders duel So it definitely qualifies for the list in my mind.

[@matthewharris-levesque5809]

Casual: Short setup; Short rules list; Not terribly weighted towards the player who has played more often.

[@winstonhammonds3314]

Arboretum would definitely be on my casual 2-player list.

[@soogymoogi]

I don't hate the BGG weight rankings. Sure, I disagree with some of them in either direction (I really don't think Spirit Island is a 4 - morelike a 3.5 or even a 3 without the expansions, but maybe I just naturally grok it better than some other folks), but I don't think the stat is worthless.

[@daniellebackus819]

I can play Gloomhaven: Jaws of the Lion, Sleeping Gods, and Star Wars: Rebellion with only minimal problems while helping my husband keep up, but he just cannot keep up with Spirit Island… and it’s enough of a brain burner that it exhausts me to try to play with him. So if Spirit Island is rated more complex than those, that rings true for my family at least.

[@peterjs007]

For Deck Builders at 2 player my wife and I love Volfyrion by Tabula games. It's similar to star realms, with great colour art and also has a co-mode.

[@MerrillWhiteKalEl]

Shocked to not see Crokinole. I know the board can be expensive, but it is one of the Kings of this category.

[@bruceschwering5919]

Rarely shows up on the lists. I’m not sure they are big fans of it.

[@soogymoogi]

I don't think most casual gamers are going to shell out for it.

[@searose6192]

Onitama is not something I would put on a casual list, because it is thinky....Zee was 100% right, it makes you feel anxious, especially if you aren't an abstract game player. It evokes all the same stress of chess. I think something like Santorini which hides the abstractness underneath a fun theme and associated special power makes it less brain vs brain.

[@GamerLisa]

True it's hard & stressful.

[@IdlestHands]

I dont find Santorini to be any less "thinky" than Onitama. Basically no abstract games really feel casual.

[@searose6192]

@@IdlestHands thanks for the interesting response.. I agree Santorini is very abstract. I think though that as theme and/or random chance increase, the fear-of-chess-ness goes down. If the theme is there strongly enough I guess it stops being "abstract", but it could be totally themeless and have a little random chance mixed in and end up being appealing to people who run the other way at Onitama. One example of a place where theme helps might be something like Calico (which I haven't played) or Seikatsu (which I have played) where the charming theme sort of relaxes the atmosphere enough that you don't feel compelled to be a master strategist, and can just sort of have fun and be surprised in the end what your score is...maybe you win, maybe you don't. I guess I feel like Santorini isn't quite as anxiety inducing because there are only two thing you can do on a turn as opposed to Onitama where you can chess-ify it quite a lot with complex multi-turn strategy....or maybe I'm just so bad at abstract strategy that I play Santorini like a dummy and just go turn by turn lol 😉😜 I prefer my games loaded with theme and I prefer my strategy to rely at least partly on social manipulation (bluffing, diversion, etc). I liked stratego as a kid and hera and zeus for instance. Anyway, happy gaming! 😊

[@stevenbonham7136]

Mike, no shame using BGG weight. Sure, sometimes the weight is off…but I have found the metric to be very helpful. The main knock for the metric would be newer games that have low vote count.

[@MansourReviews]

I agree with Zee's point here, a game like Tatsu is shrouded enough in theme that a casual gamer will not see through and be on their guard

[@checkrazor76]

Tides of time is a weird one for me. It's not quite just a "gamers " game and I dont feel it's a casual game. The theme doesnt draw anyone in and I never feel drafting is a casual game mechanic. Non or new gamers just seem to sit there with a hand of cards and say there are not sure what to keep and how to start.