Top 10 Scandals on ice and how it changed figure skating judging, scoring and rules forever!

[@FigureSkatingFan]

A few months ago someone wrote to us and asked, why didn't you guys make a video about Sochi 2014 Ladies scandal yet? Honestly this is probably the most debated judging scandal since IJS era and there have been a lot of videos around. We promised that "We will make one, after we read enough to understand more". After months of research and reading, and talking to a figure skating researcher who had done work for ABC, NBC, ESPN etc, we finally felt we have enough points to make. In this video, we traced back the history to 70s and 80s, and worked the way back to the current state of figure skating, to explore how these scandals happened and how it had affected the scoring and judging over the years. Special thanks to Alina Adams for sharing the insights and sponsoring this video. You can get her e-book about all the figure skating controversies behind-the-scene mystery series (5 books in 1) here: www.amazon.com/Figure-Skating-Mystery-Books-Alina-ebook/dp/B00HUZ41FI/

[@ИринаС-у6л]

А почему бы вам, ребята, не снять видео о том, что на протяжении уже нескольких лет американские фигуристы Чен и Браун, при всех видимых недостатках их прокатов, получают такие невероятные и запредельные баллы, а сопернику Чена японцу Ханю при любой малейшей возможности оценки старательно занижаются. А на кону, между прочим, стоит золото Олимпиады 2022. Предположу, что всех нас ожидает ещё один громкий олимпийский скандал. Все привыкли делать монстров из русских. Расскажите лучше о возможностях американской федерации фигурного катания и том давлении, которое она оказывает на судей и ISU, чтобы обеспечить лояльность и предпочтительность своим спортсменам.

[@GigiuChamp]

@@ИринаС-у6л Yzuru Hanyu è pattinaggio! Nessuno come lui! Dovrebbero averlo capito! Giù le mani da Hanyu NON ha rivali! Unico da brividi!

[@Horangmalko33838]

@@ИринаС-у6л Get the fuxx out of the Olympics with your “Honorable Gold Medalist” Sotnikova. Russia cannot say any word regarding controversy or corruption of figure skating.

[@TheLenok77]

What about "Plushenko-Laysachek" scandal? Lays - first no-quad man from 1998!

[@bluejay7232]

While some points raised in this video are valid, the rest of it sounded more like sour-graping. There's always this tendency to make American skaters the victims and discrediting actual talent and technicality of some so-called overscored skaters. I find Ashley's comment about Zagitova ridiculous. Even if Zagitova didn't perform all her jumps in the second half, there's no way Ashley or anyone could even come close to her. Alina skated CLEANLY and BEAUTIFULLY despite the loophole. She just made herself sound like a sore loser.

[@SarahIlayda]

Yuzuru Hanyu writing a thesis on this just makes him even more amazing for me. He really is a historical and graceful skater.

[@cinderellaandstepsisters]

@@alexandreelias8145He is not a cheater. Whether you succeed or not. Everybody can see that. He tried the quadruple Axel. Nobody has succeeded that in the games yet. He almost did it. Respects!

[@shorkelili]

@@alexandreelias8145 Go on and explain his cheating then, huh? Because it's clear he's been UNDERSCORED more and more as years go on. He's a legend in skating, given the title of the GOAT which has been recognised by others skaters including Nathan Chen, so why do you have an issue?

[@psalm8306]

Just wanted to know, did Yuzu's 4A get certified?

[@shorkelili]

@@psalm8306 yes! :D It was slightly under-rotated, but it was the first ever 4A to be certified!

[@psalm8306]

@@shorkelili Thanks! This makes me love him more (｡･ω･｡)ﾉ♡

[@pudding4eva101]

Yuna is so strong for not expressing any anger when she was robbed of her gold title, she has class

[@almondtofuu9952]

AGREE.

[@dryrose0]

agreed shes so chill i admire her sm

[@aliaconte.wattpad]

Agree

[@ЯнаЛысова-п6ф]

It was a well-earned medal of Sotnikova, so you wouldn’t say

[@beaniejay6178]

@@ЯнаЛысова-п6ф LOL good luck on sailing that boat 🤮🤮🤮

[@kingkarlxivjohanofsweden4746]

i swear if yuzu performs the same artistic brilliance AND manages the 4a and the judges still underscore him, i'm going to break something

[@FigureSkatingFan]

The internet will break seriously!!

[@the.muffin]

legitimately!!

[@ranisumarlina2098]

I'm with u sis 🔥🔥🔥

[@spockyspockyyeah]

🥲 what happens now? 🤧

[@viii.777]

@@spockyspockyyeah let’s wait for the free skating

[@anncabras3961]

I still get mad about how judges constantly underscore Yuzuru Hanyu… how can a judge give +1 when all the others gave +4 even?? That’s obvious fraud

[@peccantis]

Ski jumping scoring ignores the highest and lowest marks. Another measure that could be used is statistical analysis of how a judge has scored in the competition. Significant deviations from the general score pattern established by the other judges should be cause for concern and possibly disqualify that judge from future events, perhaps even invalidate their scores from that event.

[@RaymondHng]

@@peccantis International Judging System in figure skating also throws out the highest and lowest Grades of Execution for each element.

[@kevinjohn3349]

Yuzuru Hanyu is a legend. The way he skates is soo amazingly beautiful and touching. I‘ve never seen a skater like him who expresses great emotion while skating. I just can‘t stop watching him over and over agiain

[@5tingmylife251]

I agee with you. Yes!

[@chanseng4174]

👍👍👍

[@junshuzhang8814]

I can't agree with you more

[@josephinecatherinemusso1125]

Jonny weise was his idol, that might have something to do with it, they are both amazing human beings

[@cupidok2768]

Stop banninng back flip and all the good things. Whats wrong with them

[@flowerpuffff]

I’m still to this day absolutely disgusted about what went down in Sochi 2014. The fact that the judges so openly cheated and nothing was done. The sport hasn’t been the same ever since that day🤢

[@АлияКамалятова]

Щ

[@sganet_]

Lol, and half the Russians there were on PEDs with urine samples swapped out at night, both A and B samples and it was later proven. They should have been banned for 2 Olympics and their judges should be banned completely.

[@woohooo7634]

@@sganet_ so tired of people foaming at the mouths over “the russians” take a look at yourself

[@sganet_]

@@woohooo7634 And? They in total gave ped to over 1000 athletes to cheat in multiple world and Olympic competitions, that’s not something to simply ignore. They are still banned for a reason.

[@ioany6144]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@MarieRose2]

At this point even Yuzuru knows he’s being underscored a ton! It’s so ridiculous! I hope they banned the judges 😤

[@FigureSkatingFan]

The can't ban judges. But certainly hope the judges involved in the Olympic scoring give fair scores to all skaters..

[@magkal8690]

@@FigureSkatingFan No way. As I can see, and it's shown even in this video, they always modify the rules not for making this sport more creative, and to give bonuses to those that are dareing and creative, but to stop the skaters and their coaches of being so... Just look at the cases of Bonaly, when she dared to introduce a back flip in her routine, they banned the backflips, or Zagitova's case, when she amazed everyone with her power of making all her jumps in the second half of her routine ( even if the reason was of getting higher scores, but it led to a quite unique and spectacular routine), they lowered the value of the bonus given to the jumps done in the second half of the routine...and so on...Yuzuru is the only one crazy enough to try to make a perfect 4A knowing the value for it is ridiculously low...that value established by whom...just to make it not worth the effort to try it.

[@MarieRose2]

@@FigureSkatingFan wait really?! You telling me they can ban jumps but not judges?? Let’s hope for the best in Beijing 😓

[@johannakadar4314]

@@FigureSkatingFan sadly i dont think so, i think 2022 will be an other drama year. ISU already put that gold medal on Nathan's neck, wouldt give a fair chaicnce to anybody else

[@mayachristian33]

Hey peeps! I’ll be honest I’m super new to figure skating and Olympics and all that. I’d really appreciate it if you fill me in on some of this tea I’m apparently oblivious of🤗

[@ayapamungkas2267]

What they did to Kim Yuna is so cruel and dirty. It's ridiculous how they let not even a top three skater to win a gold when there's a clear deserved winner.

[@mystery-mm6xd]

So if Hanyu has the most perfect axel that judges used to give full +goe and even other skaters and researches agree on his perfect technique doesn’t get +5 now… well you won’t see me watching this sport anymore after his retirement lmao

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Fingers crossed 🤞 he lands a perfect one and get the +5 GOE! As some had pointed out, GOE had been used as tools to manipulate the results for so long. They have 11 elements in the free, 7 in the short, 1 point GOE lesser per element resulting in 18 points differences. 5 GOE *18 = 90 points difference. Anyone can do the maths and realize how much the judges could do to manipulate the results :( just hope the skaters don’t ever experience that, especially not in the Olympics!!

[@daniig62]

He’s literally the only reason I’m watching 2022. Although I do kinda wanna follow Nathan Chen too. He’s really good.

[@westangayidols]

I'm so sick of judges underscoring him. After olympics I will stick to watching exhibitions and galas

[@cyberels]

@@daniig62 Me too! Also watching for Yuma…and he did not disappoint!

[@Lotsielots]

@@westangayidols Yes he is the most graceful, fluid, artistic and powerful. Who wants to watch anything else when you have something so beautiful.

[@faylehmann]

I am 73 years old and have watched all the things play out as you describe here. And yes, it is SO obviously a biased judging system still exists. I do not belong to any skating community and have watched in "isolation" all these years so it is also very affirming to watch this video and have all my personal judgements validated. Thanks for making and posting this.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Wow thank you so much for the comment and validation. Yes like yourself I’ve been watching in “isolation” for so long. I think most figure skating fans are like us. Until I dragged some of my friends into this and now they like figure skating as much as I do, and we started editing videos, and we can have a community like this to provide support for each other’s to watch the competitions together. Do check out our community tab in the channel. We share a lot of our emotion and information during these competitions..

[@milanashmellleva6321]

Наверное вы должны помнить и, как отобрали медаль у Слуцкой... А выиграла девочка, вообще ноу нейм

[@nguyentraninhquy9698]

Yuna was judged quite unfairly, some elements were definitely underscored but the scores she received are understandable. The same goes to Carolina and Mao Asada. On the other hand, Adelina was wayyyyyy overscored. How could Adelina beat Mao in the FS when she had 7 triples and Mao had 8, knowing that they both underrotate a few jumps? From a 175 to 224.5 points in total in just under a year? No skaters, even today, have that gigantic score gap.

[@yohanes2034]

Never mind under a year, it was from 1 competition to the next one. From Euros to the Olympic which was like 1-2 months after. The GOE and most importantly PCS increase/ jump has never seen before until even this day. Suddenly Sotnikova skated like Caro/Yuna/Mao level of PCS in a month? Like Diana case, fans have eyes. Let me tell you, that Sochi scandal will haunt ISU and figure skating fans until it's corrected. Like that 2002 Salt lake city scandal, though solution of 2 teams winning gold was not ideal.

[@nguyentraninhquy9698]

@@yohanes2034 totally agree. It’s sad for our true skating fans to see this sport becoming more and more bias:

[@mayday9788]

Totally agree. Also regarding the TES, Adelina's two footed/under rotated jumps and Flutz(!!) were NOT caught while you could clearly see them even without replay. Both TES and PCS of Adelina were way too overscored. It is a shame that the refrees related to this scandal(especially the one Adelina embraced right after her FS) haven't lost their jobs and are still working for ISU. Yes, this kind of scandals will happen again.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Totally agree! They were being unnecessarily strict to some skaters but turn blind eyes to certain skaters.. Wanted to include Mao Asada actually but somehow didn't. Too much drama. Mao was so sad she messed up her SP in OG2014 and lost her last chance for an Olympic Gold. But many fans had pointed out, even if she skated clean her SP, she would still lose to Adelina Sotnikova. The judges just won't make it happen for her. Super sad that some skaters were never valued the way they should be.

[@ddjr6673]

The real scandal was how underscored Yu Na Kim was in the Short Program (as was Carolina Kostner with 3 Flip 3 toe and 3 loop with great entry). Everyone (correctly) concentrates on the FP but Yu Na had a 3Ltz 3Toe and 3 flip all perfect in the SP if I recall Adelina Sotnikova had 3toe 3toe and 3 flip. Yu Na Kim should have been way ahead from the SP onwards.

[@abygailgonzalez3593]

I hope the Beijing Olympics won't have any drama and I hope Yuzuru makes history. Even though I'm not from Japan I'm rooting for Yuzuru. Edit: I already know drama is happening and I also know that Yuzuru didn't make history but he was so close to making history.

[@annelieselzf7857]

well..... thats just not going to happen as long as eteris skaters skate xDd

[@abygailgonzalez3593]

@@annelieselzf7857 True

[@hajime6908]

3 Russian girls wanting only the gold, the drama will be for sure. and there will perform Etri's daughter and she'll be overscored again drama ...

[@annakarenina7593]

​@@annelieselzf7857 Eteri only has one male skater I believe, and he doesn't compare to yuzuru

[@Nightsky100]

As long as Russian skaters skate there will be more drama, just wait till u see eteris doughter on the podium

[@БеллаП]

The best solution will be AI judging the technical elements. Let's hope Hanyu's thesis will be considered as a new judging system one day...

[@1chienandalou]

There are so many reasons this will not happen. But some sort of quantitive supplementation of human judges really should be implemented.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Yeah agree that AI judging may not happen anytime soon.. But I'll be glad to be proven wrong in this case. ISU please do something!

[@gulnursonmez9539]

Trials may start. For example they may put an extra column for AI judging and mark that column as AI and see how the AI performs. But how to teach AI will be a subjective issue again, not objective.

[@yesulga9827]

i think they should just introduce AI judging systems for jumps and technical ones and human ones for artistry, choreography and remaining,

[@isabellaahumadaramos7013]

From my understanding I believe yuzu is working for it when he wrote he's thesis.

[@syimato]

Yuzuru’s skating is so beautiful it is literally ART

[@Татьяна-т9м1ф]

Он же играет коньками на рояле. Каждую ноту отыгрывает, .... Юзуру Ханю полет души.

[@justanythingz9737]

no one's asking bruh

[@VOCALOIDENJOYER]

oh sorry is it wrong to have an opinion now??? because i cant seem to recall that

[@liss2503]

The artistry of the sport is gone. I remember watching and crying from the beauty of the the performance. Now it’s like little jumping robots with no soul. The judging is corrupt. The entire system needs to be revamped. So sad how something I loved to watch growing up is so twisted and ugly now.

[@13blackcatzzz]

Watching Chen's gold medal skate, I was totally bored. Yes, he made his jumps, but the routine was soooo boring. The only thing he did was jumps. Even his spins were lame.

[@catandrobbyflores]

I have high hopes for Isabeau Levito. She is very elegant in her movements.

[@wh00wie]

i think yuzuru or the figure skater who represented mexico in beijing (don’t really remember his name sorry..) but they both have some good stage presence that bring that back for me a little bit

[@darquequeen2323]

@@wh00wie His name is Donovan Carillo.

[@miacarlany]

the russian and chinese judges need to be banned from the sprot for 5 years.

[@jessicataylor6014]

When Yuzu lands his jumps, they are textbook. It infuriates me how after all he's given to the sport they won't even give him the points he deserves. That's not asking for much. And how is it that the better his jumps get the lower he scores? It honestly seems like they're doing everything they can to push him out of the sport. It's so wrong, and quite frankly, painful to watch. Something has to change yet again because this is a mess.

[@turtlefeesh]

All this atrocious underscoring against Yuzu traces way back to 2015 when he broke 6 world records in just 2 weeks (GPF and NHK 2015). The ISU (Lakernik) thought he was too dominant and since then, they've tried everything to lowball him and get him to retire. They even changed the entire CoP in 2018 after his consecutive OGM win to make overscoring certain other skaters easier. Despite all these efforts intending to undermine his talent, Hanyu refuses to give up and is still going strong to this day. Honestly my mind cannot comprehend how he is mentally capable of putting up with all of this for so many years.

[@busanprince4183]

@@turtlefeesh you know, I feel for him 😢. BUT remember, life will always find a way to lift those who suffered injustice and make those corrupt ones experience it one way or another. Look at him now, he’s literally a rockstar that is still rising despite atrocities.

[@honeybeeami2654]

That one legged black flip is stunning, the amount of strength and timing you would have to take to nail this is insane.

[@harumih.3727]

Massimiliano repeatedly criticized inexplicable scoring bias against Yuzuru's 3A, 3S, and 4T+3T jumps. Ask him, too, who has become a huge fan of Yuzuru since Yuzuru's "Romeo & Juliet" performance in 2011, and he has been an expert analyst of figure skating.

[@fedrikrose2277]

Are you talking about Massimiliano Ambesi? He is one of my favourite Italian commentators.

[@harumih.3727]

@@fedrikrose2277 Yes. He has a keen eye for details, seeing every movement of a body. I can always trust his analytical opinions.

[@MK-xs6eg]

Shame on sochi judges. They not only blocked Yuna from becoming a two-time champion, but also eliminated the opportunity to see YUNA YUZURU DANCE TOGETHER

[@guillermoaguilarmarianapao883]

What? Why?

[@박박-e2c]

@@guillermoaguilarmarianapao883 ?

[@TheDivayenta]

How?

[@RH-wx5vw]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I remember seeing a part of the gala where single's skaters were paired. Yuzuru and Adelina were probably paired together since they were the gold medalist. Honestly, I had hoped Yuna would be paired with Yuzuru. The QUEEN and the then rising GOAT.

[@MirsTin565]

Approve! I am from Russia and many people are shocked by Sotnikov's victory. Shame on the Sochi jury. We all know that Yuna Kim should be the winner

[@ddnauru]

For me one of the worst things, at least in the women's event, is the loss of artistry. I just see these 15 year old children who might be amazing technically (allthough ... Prerrotation helloooo) but convey 0 emotion. And I get that the artistic side, actually, is the thing that gets better with age and experience, but because these girls don't seem to last more than a couple of seasons because they either hurt themselves (might be interesting to research on why all these russian skaters hurt their backs before turning 18...) or the next 15 year old comes up and the last one is put aside, we never get to see their evolution. It's becoming more and more difficult to see the progression of skaters for more than two years, and I think it's such a pity because that's one of the beautiful aspects of this sport.

[@kayelle8005]

Same thing happened in women’s gymnastics. All about exploiting rule changes for technical proficiency over artistry.

[@linnnguyen453]

Yeah just search for what is happening to women’s figure skating? from fran

[@losersinc]

Probalt because of their coaches pushing them so hard that they hurt themselves. There is a specific one (I do not remember her name at the moment) but she is notorious for forcing her students to take stamina enhancing drugs and pushes their bodies until they break. Hence why a lot of skaters retire early

[@verybarebones]

The artistry doesn't get scores, who wants to waste time in something that won't be appreciated?

[@birdy369]

@@losersinc it has something to do with the fact that smaller framed girls (before they've grown taller & into or past puberty) are able to rotate more, able to do those quad jumps much easier than grown girls or women, despite the pre rotations and poor landings. Apparently there's only been like, one girl in the seniors division (which she was only 17 I believe) to perform some sort of quad jump during her routine. I think i know the coach you're referencing, her name was like Tuberitzke or something like that? Russian coach... they're turning out skaters left and right at 15 years old, training them with terrible techniques (2 previous skaters, champions trained under her, were confirmed to have eating disorders... and it's notorious for her skaters in particular to break bones more easily than other students of other coaches...) causing them to have injuries by 18 or so that inflict upon their ability to figure skate -put that on top of the fact that more grown girls cannot as easily perform these quad jumps that the coach is having the 14 & 15 yr Olds perform, (despite it putting dangerous strain on their backs and spines), and then by 16 they're competing the seniors divisions & olympics... we are seeing ladies figure skaters retire by 20 or less, when men's skaters skate until they're near 30 sometimes. They're churning and burning these skaters out on the women's side of the sport, pushing them to do things older skaters can't do, while at the same time injuring these kids to where they won't be able to skate and compete once they've grown more. Edit: it's the coach and girls referenced in number 2 of this list that im referencing

[@Esther-ho3st]

I knew it! It was weird for me the scores that yuzuru was getting. I would always think it was unfair. His jumps are awesome but he's always underscored from what he actually deserves.

[@Dociti]

Sadly is been so obvious in the last years the corruption and favoritism of the judges on some skaters.. this is a "secret" that everybody knows.. the ISU does not care about the sport, the fair play or the safety of the skaters, they only care about the money they can get, and sadly this sport will lose more credibility and fans if they continue like that.. I got to say that personally, I will probably stop seeing skating when Hanyu retires, because of the unfair scoring that exists

[@Hitthexa]

Yes, now besides corruption, we have to deal with nepotism 😒😒😒 I'll go to roller skating, no corruption there.

[@Gradguy1]

It hasn’t only been the last few years … it’s been since the 70s in some way, shape or form.

[@maje1ful]

It's the truth, in 2014, I wanted to stop watching anything about figure skating because of Yuna's case, but I love watching Yuzuru skate, so I only watch and will watch men's figure skating until Yuzuru retires

[@DeepSeas..]

The judges aren’t stupid. They know exactly how these jumps should be performed and can easily spot under-rotations and incorrect edges. They have an obligation to serve their federations and allies first, which causes these ridiculous results.

[@daniig62]

Didn’t they say the new scoring system was supposed to stop that? Doesn’t seem to be working

[@mr.balloffur]

It's not a judges job to deduct for issue with jumps, that's the technical controllers job.

[@crimson_auror]

I feel for these skaters. It sucks being in a sport that can be subjective at times. I was a dancer growing up, and I truly believe my team was robbed several times due to judging bias. It’s hard to eliminate bias in a sport that involves artistry.

[@ghostieboi13]

Honestly as someone who's starting out in figure skating but has been in competitions (costume making and sports as well as some girl scout comps) I've experienced so much Bies its crazy 😧 one of the comps I did had four judges and when I went up only two were there the other two were late! There needs to be some changes for ALL judging for sports because it's getting ridiculous

[@erinIs]

the difference between nathans artistic and technical scores is just outrageous. he knows the only way he can win is through an insane base value score, and the judges love him too much to score him correctly. the difference between yuzuru’s 8 point difference and nathan’s 40 point difference is just ridiculous

[@divinearia1601]

It's hilarious that some of you are behaving as if doing a hard program is somehow cheating, lol. You're saying Nathan shouldn't be allowed to do difficult programs just because other skaters aren't capable of it? He should be held back so that other skaters can keep up, right? He's a champion precisely because he can do very difficult jump layouts and also score well artistically. He's really pushing the sport technically. That should be admired. Why is that a problem for some of you?

[@GabrielaPerez-rl4yf]

@@divinearia1601 erin. is saying that artistry isn't as valued anymore, and skaters like Chen with little artistry should not compare to Hanyu's artistry. Basically Chen's programs look like a jump drill

[@divinearia1601]

@@GabrielaPerez-rl4yf...that's not what erin. was saying. They were complaining about the base values of his programs. And he's actually scored very well artistically by the judges regardless of your piss-poor opinion...so what's the problem? He's a champion because he scores well in both TES and PCS.

[@mikegarcia7986]

You are totally full of it. Nathan is a much better skater, both technically AND artistically...but keep dreaming.

[@mikegarcia7986]

@@GabrielaPerez-rl4yf Delusional much?? Nathan has TREMENDOUS artistry And technique. He is the complete package!!! GO NATHAN!!!

[@ariannabinaghi5222]

What a great video! Thank you as usual. Yuzu's is right when he said that it's become too hard for the judges, but at the same time the corruption is obvious. To me the -5/+5 would make sense because, of course nuance exists, if only corruptions din't exist, this way, as you said, it's only become an easier way to favor certain skaters over others. Also, I don't think Ashley was being rude in those comments: she recognized how hard Alina's program was and also voiced what many were thinking and she was later miraculously proved right by the rule change

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Yeah I remember it was quite a trend at that time, backloading, in season 2016 through to 2018.. Honestly I like Zhenya and Alina's programs. They were well choreographed to fit the music. But then it became too much when everyone was trying to do that. Glad that trend is over..

[@RidickRidick]

@@FigureSkatingFan Wagner is ridiculously unprofessional in her comments, when someone is better then you, try to face it with dignity, Alina great with her answer, but your translation is not accurate, it's more softer in russian than you translated

[@FigureSkatingFan]

@@RidickRidick the translation is not done by us but by RT sports where we found the clips as we don’t speak Russian ourselves

[@ritaschouppe3435]

I hope, for all that hard work he realise his goal 🙏🙏🥰🥰🥰💓💓💓👍👍👍

[@taradiane]

Yeah, you can have a lot of falls but a fall doesn't negate the entire jump, it's not all or nothing scoring in that regard. The approach, take off, rotations, and landing are all part of scoring a jump. Yuzuru did all the jumps in his program, he just didn't land them successfully due to the head injury (which I think he should have been forbidden from skating after - I applaud his determination as it was ultimately his decision, I just don't think it should have been his decision and the powers that be in charge that day should have taken his health into consideration and prevented it as he could have harmed himself even further).

[@Татьяна-т9м1ф]

Я плакала тогда. Потому что сказали ,что отменить выступление нельзя , потому что 2/ 3 зала пришли именно на ХАНЮ..... этот мальчик ... выстоял, и все прыжки выполнил.... откатал, как герой.

[@elenalizabeth]

He is lucky he didn’t end up with a haemorrhage or other brain bleeding etc from that. It was so risky and he shouldn’t have been allowed to skate when it could have literally killed him if he hit his head from a fall etc.

[@wendywei3498]

I think he talked about this experience in his autobio. He was thinking about he could not skate anymore or compete any more. That’s why he backed to the rink b/c he thought it might be his last game.

[@marjoriecoey3418]

I thought he had concussion. Don't know how he stayed on his feet! Laid on that ice far too long after the collision.

[@madelion24]

I stopped watching women's figure skating in 2014 after the results at the Sochi games. There is no point in watching something that is just cheating and abuse(younger and younger girls abusing their bodies so their careers are maybe 2 years). I had attempted to watch some programs after those Olympics only to notice that they all looked the same and honestly, not well balanced artistically. It would honestly make more sense if countries couldn't judge their own skaters and that the scores wouldn't be released until every skater has preformed. There is way too much racism and sexism in figure skating still. And with the news of a doping scandal with Russia and nothing being done about it but screwing over every other person in the competition...yeah...not even worth it was a spectator.

[@vansoccer3438]

Sexism?

[@madelion24]

​@@vansoccer3438 they have to wear skirts. they literally redefined a rule because someone wore feathers on the bottom of their costume. Appearance although not technically judged is still a factor for some judges. If you can't wear an item of clothing because of your gender, that in my mind constitutes sexism.

[@LLLikeapanorama]

Hanyu and Yuna the two legends. Respect

[@시노모세키]

저도 그렇게 생각합니다.🇰🇷🇯🇵 네이선 첸 🇺🇸도요

[@momiamok-v4y]

Hanyu is a legend. Yuna never even tried difficult jumps

[@defoliatebai2120]

Yuzuru Hanyu is a talent not only in figure skating and also digitalization segment using technology to ease the manipulation in the competetion. His graduation essay of 'AI judgement adoption' express the systematic way to leverage AI into the judge system. Yuzuru's research is based on the sensor to capture altheletes actions and then be analyzed & deconstructed by AI for deep diving. How creative construction to figure skating, and Yuzuru contributes everything he could do to figure skating. He is the icon for figure skating and the Greatest of All Time ever.

[@julinho218]

Hanyu 3A +1 GOE is just absurd, lacking worst words at the moment

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Right?! and the GOE +2 in the Worlds 2021 by that harsh judge. Honestly touched our nerves every single time! Like tell us who can do 3A better?!

[@julinho218]

@@FigureSkatingFan there's no sense in all that. Two possibilities are bad judging and bias. Which one is the most probable?

[@Татьяна-т9м1ф]

Дадада..... там +5 заслуженная. А значит почти 100 балов, и никак не 8 место. Охренели там совсем.

[@sanderslol6694]

Один судья поставил Трусовой за 4 Лутц 3 тулуп во втором тайме 0 баллов 🫣

[@nyushisugakunoshoaku]

The base value of 4A may be more controversial after Beijing Olympics...

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Hopefully!!! Everyone will understand how ridiculous it is. I've been telling people. The scoring system is already unfair. It's like u run a marathon, first 21KM they give you 10 points (single to triples), from 21- 42KM they give you extra 20 points because it's much harder (quadruples). But from 42 to 63KM (from quad to quad axel), not many people can do, and the judges think it's probably dangerous, give just 5 points extra. It's so unfair..

[@maje1ful]

@@FigureSkatingFan excellent explanation and comparison, seriously, it is understandable for those of us who do not know much about the scoring system. And in fact, it is very unfair even ridiculous to give only 5 points

[@lunalexi2462]

Im so frustrated by the judges obviously cheating. Yet it’s the skaters who have to talk to the media and get blamed for it! I wish the judges had to talk to the media then we might see some accountability

[@misq23127]

Yuzu has been UNDERSCORED for years! Though I'm very admiring for his talent and power to still stay on the top of this game under such distorted circumstances, I am extremly ANGRY about ISU's nonfeasance towards such flagrant unfairness!!! They are suppressing Yuzu INTENTLY and playing audiences like fool!!!

[@shirahime23]

Queen Yuna will always be QUEEN YUNA--no matter what went down in Sochi. She gave the better performance and no amount of fraudulent scoring will change the fact that the world knows that she was the best in the world at that time. As to Yuzuru, the best figure skater of all time as some skating legends have dubbed him (and I agree completely), his level of artistry and physical supremacy on the ice is unparalleled. Despite flubbing his jumps five times in the Cup of China, the judges knew that, without that head injury he sustained, he would have given an EXCELLENT performance. What they really celebrated in giving him that silver was his determination, his drive, his professionalism, and his courage to perform and give his best in spite of the odds.

[@skatergirl1247]

I've been coached by Surya before, and she's actually a sweet woman. She's demanding and very particular, but definitely kindhearted and funny once you get to know her.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Yeah in Surya's interview later on, she sounded like a very nice person. People sometimes don't react rationally at the heat of certain moments that touched their nerves and they shouldn't be judged based on that single incident. We brought that incident up in this video to show the bloc judging in the Eastern Bloc and western judges controversy btw, not to criticize her in anyway.

[@ChristineTheHippie]

I will always think that Surya would have been happier and been able to develop all areas of her skating of her mother wasn't in the way. She always seemed like a very nice person if the ice but her federation did her dirty

[@NYCBlonde]

@@ChristineTheHippie I was going to say--as bad as Suraya comes off by refusing to accept the silver (and I detest poor sportsmanship), I've always heard nothing but very good things about her personally. Conversely I've heard her mother is an absolute nightmare. I wonder if her reaction wasn't because her mother was berating her backstage when she didn't win--it wouldn't have been the first time.

[@ChristineTheHippie]

@@NYCBlonde I think that was a big part of it. Surya felt bad about what she did afterwards and apologized. I remember Simon Reed saying "Whoever advised her to do that should be severely chastised."

[@Kaijpiroska]

Oh, I absolutely love Surya, and you were fortunate enough to meet her personally!

[@MM-co4lf]

Amazing video. I agree that changing the scoring system didn't change anything. The scoring today is as corrupt as it was back then.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Yeah.. It's never fair. Just judges voting for their favorite..

[@tsgrandma9837]

Figure skating use to be so exciting to watch. The grace, endurance and sheer raw talent the skaters have is thrilling. But I stopped watching it years ago because of the judges. It was heartbreaking to watch a single skater do some jaw dropping moves without falling or nearly falling to score so low compared to another skater whom did so much less and fell at least twice to score high and win the competition. This happened so often that it took the beauty out of figure skating, at least for me.

[@sianchild]

Surya's back flip makes her a legend in history, even if the judges didn't credit it at the time. I hope she is able to feel good about how iconic she was/is.

[@kiki0girlify]

It’s so sad because I love the sport but all the politics are causing so much damage. The fact that there has to be so many cheaters, people who go around the rules, and judges being threatened/ bribed is just sad.

[@Lulu_villain]

I really can`t understand the judging system, it`s so weird...Hope this Olympics will be ok and judges will judge skaters fairly without decreasing the scores, especially how they like doing this to Yuzuru Hanyu.

[@blancagarduno1640]

How unfortunate that this beautiful sport is being filled with pure corruption 🤢 many of the judges have favoritism and blind them

[@haripriyaborah9447]

The day Yuzuru Hanyu will retire, I am saying goodbye to this sport

[@lunagrace2872]

Same

[@hutao.h1258]

Same

[@nadaa1111]

same

[@TamTran-lk6rx]

Same

[@tkyosmith]

That will be the day this sport will die...

[@5nixie]

That scandal with Kim Yuna was really something... She was a legend and blatantly robbed off the Gold. She deserved to make that record.

[@junglesuperstar9270]

Oh, now we give medals because somebody is a legend . Interesting

[@walalang1823]

​@@junglesuperstar9270not really because she's a legend, it's because she had a better performance better technique better artistry better speed and better flow

[@Xandtania]

My main problem with judging is that they really don't care about PCS these days. If you do quads (women or men) you will instantly get ridiculously high PCS even if you don't have great SS, IN, TR etc. Skaters like Yuzuru Hanyu who has jam-packed programs or Jason Brown who has superior SS and artistry get almost the same scores as a skater who has empty programs or average SS is just so unfair and ridiculous. Or Sasha's PCS getting anywhere near Satoko Miyahara... It makes you wonder why do those skaters even bother? Why does Hanyu work so hard to create a program so full, so complicated and difficult, and not just focus on saving his energy to jump more quads? Why does Jason waste his time instead of trying to get a stable quad? Or Hanyu using a bunch of difficult steps/tr and making his jumps really difficult yet, gets way lower goe than those who just do crossovers? Satoko is an incredible skater but she has a reputation of struggling with jumps so she never gets the scores she deserves. Even when she does everything right. It's just so frustrating. Why not turn it into a "jumping on ice" competition then? And of course if you are from certain feds, you can get away with several things like wrong edges and UR... But who cares, I guess? This sport is dead or dying.

[@lillaberkes7034]

Absolutely agree. Looking at all those empty, meaningless choreographies (what Sasha has now, couldn't even be considered a choreography IMO) which get the same or just slightly lower points, the lack of originality in the step sequences or spins are sad. It's not like everyone should be extraordinary but the norm right now is that they don't even need to try.

[@ilana4361]

Why not turn it into a "ballet on ice" competition then? Why jump at all? "Why does Jason waste his time instead of trying to get a stable quad?" Good question! Because he can't jump!!! Even women's competitions cannot be won with his technique, this is the last century! All he has is a PCS. And he gets prohibitively high marks for PCS. Look at that from the other side. Others spend a vaste of time practicing difficult jumps and moving the sport forward, while Brown has a lot of time to work on choreography. And when you have 1 quadruple and 3+2 combinations in your program, you certainly have a huge space for choreography and composition, because you do not need to concentrate on jumps. Thats why he so good in that. Not becouse he better skater. Satoko skates very well. She gets deservedly high PCS. But nobody canceled the technique. She has great spins. And she justly gets +5 for them. But she cannot jump anything but an axel. All triples she jumps with under-rotations. And gets fair marks. As for Sasha and Nathan. Yes, their components are a bit overscored. I agree. But not all. SS? The fact that they are jumping quadruple jumps from steps does not speak of excellent skating skills? Or Transisions? They have very difficalt transitions, there is not a single empty second in their programs. Interpretation, Composition and Performance are sometimes not good enough. But not because they cannot, but simply because they concentrate more on technique. Look at Sasha and Nathan at the exhibitions! Everything is fine there with the presentation! Skaters like Yuna, Hanyu, Valieva, who can combine excellent technique with amazing choreography, are unique and deservedly receive high marks.

[@yohanes2034]

@@ilana4361 things to remember though, not just jumping is difficult. Things that Jason does on ice (watch his Sinnerman choreography) most skaters would never be able to do so without much of training needed. As with transitions, they make jumps much harder. Nathan put some transitions on his 4T and his 4T become less consistent, more tight landing and less flow out. Yuzuru is probably still the one who does all his quads with some transitions before. PCS is like an after thought mark. It's sad seeing Sasha receives PCS on the same level with Satoko. If skating is easy then you'll all have Yuzuru Hanyu type of skater. Cause mastering edgework and transitions are difficult, hence you have skaters specialized in one aspect and the other. Point is you shouldn't diminished pcs skaters because the current trend towards jumping has made FS like this. They also work for the results they present on ice and they should be rewarded more and/ or give more distinguished score compared to other who do not excel in pcs. PS: I don't see difficult steps or transitions you spoke so highly in Sasha and Nathan programs though. Their FS are known to be empty. Except the stsq or chsq, rarely you'll steps choreographed to the music

[@inahrum]

@@ilana4361 yea I'm here to ask where exactly are the difficult transitions in sasha or Nathan's programmes? in between jumps, theres a lot of 2 footed skating and they're empty as far as I can tell. also we're talking about SS, not TR which are transitions. skating skills includes having clear deep edges, speed, excellent knee work, one footed and multi directional skating, etc according to the isu rubric. even if they do have transitions (which they dont) those 2 skaters are not exemplary of good skating skills.

[@magkal8690]

Maybe, in some future, the human judges will he replaced by A.I., which will judge everything with objectivity ...( but, I guess, the,humans will , find a way to corrupt a robot and make it judge in someone's favour .)

[@3Axel1996]

I always say, don’t allow the judges from the countries of the Top 10 ranked skaters of each discipline be on the judging panel of a major competition. Then there will be no desire for judges to make deals with one another. This will also help develop the proficiency of the judges from the smaller, less powerful nations. They do that with the FIG.

[@Patibens]

Even with no judge of the top 10 ranked skaters on the panel, it won't work. Everyone has friends from other countries. Every judge has their favorite skater just like every fan

[@samanthachan193]

It would be better if judges are not allowed to score athletes from the same country. For example, when scoring a Russian skater, the score of Russian judge will not be taken into account. Only the scores of other 8 judges will be counted.

[@oliviawillard4542]

@@samanthachan193 however, as mentioned in the video the judge from the skater’s country could influence/talk some of the other judges into favoring one skater over the other. The only solution seems to be high-tech AI or giving the judges less leeway by returning to the +3/-3 GOE system or even lowering it to +2/-2

[@Patibens]

@@oliviawillard4542 and what about the technical panels? They decide if the jump is rotated or not or if it has an edge and gives levels in spins and steps. They also can influence a big deal. For example. A weak skater has an edge which is the same problem my top-skater has. I will overlook that problem on purpose and if the assistant and controller aren't great or are with me then we have to be consistent throughout the competition. It's only fair, right? By the time my own top-skater makes the edge mistake, we have to be consistent and my skater gets away with it! resulting in higher scores.

[@samanthachan193]

@@Patibens According to Yuzuru's thesis, it is possible to determine edges and rotations by using sensors sticking to the feet of athletes. But unfortunately the thesis doesn't talk much about spins and steps. You may read his thesis for details.

[@callieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee]

I hate it when people say "If he/she falls they shouldn't win" or "in my day people who fell did not win." It doesn't work that way 🤣 I also think Alina still deserved gold. Even if Alina didn't backload she still would have won, Evgenia's flutz wasn't called, and she didn't have a 3Lz - 3lo.

[@biakhlua2291]

Yeah I think Alina was better that time

[@emana6824]

sorry , but Osmend should have won 2018

[@biakhlua2291]

@@emana6824 i think so too...her jumps were huge and big. Artistrty wise she's not lower either. Imagine if she was from Russian federation she would surely win

[@valendussan]

Say it louder!!

[@olgasmirnova4588]

Zagitova have lipberrger and bad sliding! Osmond have flutz!

[@huyentrinh3419]

This video has spoken for me actually. Since I was a child, I am fascinated by figure skating performance on television even they are only recap or short reviews. I found the athletes like dancers on ice with body movement, facial expression accompanying with background music. But recent years, what I saw from competitions broadcasted and scores after performance brought back to me a lot of questions about intergrity and value of this sport, whether or not this is no more than just sport but more like a show without sport spirit. Somehow, this video has helped me get my answers.

[@LeopardAzure]

You predicted today perfectly. Nathan and Yuma certainly earned their spots, and I'd consider Shoma a reasonable 3rd place, but with the messy nature of his free (including jumps that should have been Q being called fully rotated by the tech panel), I really, really don't think the score gap between him and Hanyu was reasonable at all.

[@paubm1977]

Tbh this is making me scared for the 2022 Olympics especially how in the recent nationals both Nathan and Vincent got WAAAAAY overscored over Jason and ilia Judges have been known to over score Nathan and underscore yuzuru when they are competing together Hopefully the Beijing Olympics will be stricter to the judges

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Honestly this is my deepest fear now. Yuzu could very well have landed 4A, executed all elements perfectly, and still lose out to Nathan.. sometimes I couldn’t stop crying thinking about this kind of scenarios..

[@brkaz5864]

As long as ISU, IOC, Politics and $$$ are involved, there will always be cheating at any and all Olympic events. No matter how the rules are changed there are coaches, skaters and especially judges who will find "loopholes".

[@3Axel1996]

Missed out on the Ice Dancing judging scandals of 1993 Worlds (6 of 9 judges were suspended for not judging the event properly, but by skaters’ reputation), 1998 for block judging, 2002 Worlds for alleged fixed judging re Israel over Lithuania. The 1998 scandal led to questions as to how did one judge ice dancing, which led to ISU implementing specific required elements in the Original and Free Dances trying to make judging more objective than subjective. Also, the judging system change after the 1980 season stemming from Denise Biellmann’s winning the Long Program but still failing to win a medal (she placed 5th overall). At the 1981 Worlds, under the new judging system, she won the gold. Plus, the judging system change after 1988 Calgary where the first tiebreaker is the Artistic Impression marks rather than Technical Merit marks for the LP/FS. This stemmed from Boitano winning over Orser in the Long Program. One more 1972 Olympics when Janet Lynn won the Free Skate but failed to win the Gold because boring Compulsory Figures were worth 60% of the overall score. Next season, ISU introduced the Short Program. Lastly, 1988 Calgary when Manley won only the silver and Ito only placed 5th overall after both skated the best and more difficult Long Programs. That led to ISU eliminating the Compulsory Figures after the 1990 season.

[@3Axel1996]

Thanks to 1998, Ice Dancing became less creative as the skaters must fulfill the requirements in the FD: twizzles (no twizzles before 1999), straight or diagonal line steps, turning lift, spin (no spins prior to 1999), etc. All so that journalists and casual fans can make sense of the sport and judging. It was also to stop the IOC from deciding to drop Ice Dancing from future Winter Olympics.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Oh! I love your channel! Such a great place to search for programs in the early days of figure skating! Being a figure skating fan for just past 10 years, I learnt so much going through the old programs shared in your channel. And thank you so much for sharing the ice dance judging scandals in 1993 worlds. I seldom watch ice dance and wasn't aware of that and gotta read more about it. As for the rest of incidents, yeah I was aware, but somehow didn't select into this documentary coz else it would be like a 1 hour video 😂

[@3Axel1996]

@@FigureSkatingFan The one in 1980 is notable because the judging system went through a major overhaul. Even a 37 year figure skating fan like me still don't full understand the judging system from pre-1981.

[@magkal8690]

@@3Axel1996 Yes, but with some of the rules they impose, they make figure skating less creative and spectacular...specially in ice dancing...I used to love that discipline just for this, for it was different, but lately I started to be bored...the same twizzels, the same rotations, the same lifts...But, maybe, it's easier for the judges to give points...

[@laleharmani840]

My mom vo vlvp video

[@Deathisdark05]

Artistry is definitely dying. I have to question whether skaters are even taught it anymore because if you watch this year’s olympics a lot of the single skaters lack it. Even when someone breaks a world record I don’t feel like I’m watching something amazing because a lot of their routines seem to all involve jumps and are simple so I’m mentally just like “oh another jump” (with that said there might be some truth to what Yuzuru suggested but there’s likely other things going on since the Olympics just won’t get to the root of the problem). Honestly, I much prefer watching couple skates now instead of singles because it practically forces artistry on them and so you really get to see the extent of their talent.

[@wickedwitch7456]

I have mixed feelings about loopholes. Like, if you're smart enough to go along the rules while benefiting you could be considered smart. Yes of course then it's totally fine that the rules change because of it but i think its also not right to judge them too hard just because they read the rule book better and work it to their advantage

[@koomiho8982]

Indeed! When Zagitova put all her jump at the later part of the program and skating boring for the first minute or so, who could blame her tactic? I honestly thought the ISU was darn stupid to not expect that from happening when they updated the rule

[@hildakao5862]

講得太好了！在我愛上花滑後，追尋的幾年以來，對於這些裁判打分越來越失望，對於下一個再下一個比賽，害怕漸漸大於期待，因為，你知道選手的努力，可能得不到回報

[@FigureSkatingFan]

真的。這大概是許多人愛上花滑，卻無法一直愛花滑的原因了。。

[@fz9597]

I'm glad Yuzuru finally out of this toxic competitive environment. He will continue his beautiful skating without psychological damage.🍯🍊

[@chlngyn2300]

To be honest, I don't like backloading the jumps since it usually make the program less interesting but I think +10% to all the jumps in the second half is fair tho. I mean, the more jumps you put it in the second half the less amount of time you get to prepair/ recover between each jumps and that may even worst when you fall at a jump. Alina and her performance at World 2018 is an example. That the risk and difficult athlete may face if they want to take those 10% so I think it worth it. Rather than only allow extra points for 3 jumps at fs and 1 at sp, maybe they can score the choreograph lower if it looks boring? Another difficult when choose to backloading jumps is that viewers can focus more on the step sequence and skating skill of a skater. If skaters are not good with skating skill and artistic those backloading programs would also highlight their weak point. So for me backloading programs are not the problem. It just that the PCS score is still a joke so they have to banned it to make the unfairness in PCS less noticeable. Anyway, it just my thought. Hope we would have understandable results for the upcoming Olympic.

[@aronhelios1734]

They already put a rule to prevent the jump backloading, you can't present a program like Zagitova's Don Quixote anymore. As for the choreography, what decides what's boring and what's not? The thing with figure skating is that the rules have to be defined better; let's just think about one simple thing like the bullet "good air position". What's good air position? It's never explained in the rulebook.

[@olgasmirnova4588]

У Загитовой огромная вторая оценка за компоненты! Она её не заработала, её нагрибовали русфедра!

[@OlJackBurton]

Backloading all your jumps should lower your PCS scores then, because it makes your first half more boring and the second half less artistic and the interpretation of the music overall is much weaker...

[@olgasmirnova4588]

Загитова ездит вечно с согнутыми ногами, бровками домиком, а музыку она вообще не слышит. Интерпретации 0. Все её проги поставлены под бравурную музыку. А там все равно когда руку или ногу поднимать. Этери её и учила под пам, пам движения делать.))))))

[@МаргаритаСтоянова-з7з]

​@@olgasmirnova4588А Медведевой заработала с открытым роть и пантомима 😂. Хватит уже 6 лет прошло!

[@spribic11]

You "accidentally" forget a scandal when on the Olympics games in Vancouver Plushenko with a more difficult and better skated program lost from Lysacek, who even hadn't skate his program without serious mistakes! That was a huge scandal as well! "In the figure skating world, the quadruple jump is one of the most difficult moves to execute. Plushenko did that not once but twice in the 2010 men's figure skating Olympic competition in the both programs and won...silver?" Who'd he lose to? A man by the name of Evan Lysacek who in many people's eyes had a far easier program in many people's eyes, not to mention, he didn't include any quadruple jumps in his program.

[@pedropelaez]

You are just talking shit. The technical base value between the two skaters was 0.10 in favor of Plushenko. Get over yourself. Plushenko’s performance was not better skated. Loser.

[@cloudsn]

I don't know much about figure skating, but finding loop holes and playing the rules is pretty normal in any sport I think. When I watch running, they always stick their heads out to cut a tiny fraction off their time at the finish line. These sports are so highly competitive that trainers will do anything possible within the rules to help their athletes win.

[@aeuagh5021]

Yes, it's also common to do stuff like this in weightlifting. Athletes will move up in weight ever so slowly, and since the athlete lifting the least goes next, this means that if they play it right you can make another athlete lift twice in a row (with nobody in between) and hence there's a bigger chance of them failing the lift

[@beatm6948]

Yeah, and in fact, it's kind of a gift sometimes to the sport. There's a great video on ridiculous rules in hockey that had to be put in place because of one dude who kept abusing loopholes.

[@theor2657]

@@beatm6948 Formula 1 is a great example of using loopholes too. Double diffuser, ground effect, DAS, adaptative suspension... Brings innovation, for sure, but often gets banned after being seen as too big of a competitive advantage.

[@Unfiltered494]

My most painful, yet not so famous judging scandal was how Drobiazko/Vanagas got robbed of both an Olympic and especially a Worlds medal in 2002. In Salt Lake, they finished behind 2 teams who had falls and then at Worlds they unexpectedly lost to the Israelis Chait/Sakhnovski, even though they were clearly superior in every way and had never lost to them prior to that. Povilas then said that the Israeli federation had bought that medal for their team. Drobiazko/Vanagas might have been the most underscored skaters of all time.

[@locomotif]

Honestly I stopped watching figure skate after Yuna scandal. The fact that ISU just let judges to cheat so openly even at the Olympics...ISU killed the sport by themselves☹️

[@Hotcheetos777]

i agree, but i highly recommend taking a look at Jia Shin (also from korea) at the Youth Olympics (her free skating program). She's like the smaller version of Yuna! Ofc has a long way to go, but she has a similar graceful and effortless style of skating, just like yuna

[@accordingtolex]

Another one for another video: Evan Lysacek, beating Evgeni Plushenko at the 2010 Olympics. I, personally, agreed with those results because he wasn't just skating back and forth and jumping, he had some artistry. But many criticized him getting the gold because Evgeni did quads. Definitely a start to the whole technical vs artistry conundrum that's even worse today.

[@GrumpyKay]

Yup, and Plushenko didn't skate clean. He messed up in some spots. I think its a risk to add in jumps like that. And its your choice to add them in. But you better land them cause messing up and having a sloppy skating performance, should punish you greatly

[@BethCollier31]

And Johnny Weir should have been awarded the bronze or the silver. Audience in stands knew it, people watching on tv knew it. Judges were blind and biased.

[@BethCollier31]

And Johnny Weir should have had at least the Bronze for his gorgeous short and long programs, so beautiful and instead he was buried in 6th place. Disgusting!

[@ДмитроІвахненко-ш4ш]

Plushenko should not have won any medals in Vancouver at all, his components are just an absurd joke.

[@Noname-cn4ly]

I have watched ice skating almost my entire life(I’m almost 70)….my daughter skated and competed for 6 years, but eventually a lot of us parents got tired of the cheating during competitions by judges………..so about a decade ago, I quit watching ice skating altogether! I lost faith that it could be judged fairly! 😞😞

[@kdh_kch4241]

Yuna Kim's era brought me in to this sport then Sochi brought me out. There's corruption & now doping. The scoring system is a mess. It's very saddening. But even though these things take place, we all know the real GOATS of this sport Yuna & Yuzu deserve better.

[@milamilla1977]

Doping was always, not just now.

[@caesard5641]

Well you probably could add Beijing 2022 Figure Skating scandal. There's Team Eteri doping scandal and blatant overscoring in Men event. Nathan deserve his medal but he definitely did not deserve that score. the judged decided to inflated his score so high it could touch the sky. Even Yuma questioned his own score a when he feel his jump is not perfect but the judged give him positive GOE

[@MirkaImagination]

I hope the judges at these Olympics score fair. I know it's almost impossible, but I can hope

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Yeah we can only hope..

[@flowerpuffff]

We can only hope, but unfortunately it will most likely be a shit show as the past Olympics

[@lilbatz]

I love me some Surya, and believe the judges gave her no breaks, BUT for that championships the placement was correct. Sato had knees like butter, and actually used her skating edges. Surya was all flats on the ice and very basic skills (other than the jumps)at that moment in time. Unfortunately her protest gave the judges an opening to judge her like garbage from then on out. Momma Bonaly did not help. What could have been with better coaching.

[@shiraya318]

Man, even tho Yuzuru is constantly at the disadvantage of judges being corrupt and biased he still wrote a whole paper to defend them...he's amazing.

[@hiigh_sky]

kim yuna deserved gold in 2014 and everyone knows it: she's the queen!

[@JonnyTainment]

Figure skating is a judged sport. Any sport that's judged will never be 100% fair.

[@Gradguy1]

Watch Diving.😊

[@beatm6948]

Yes, but it's also an oversimplification. Skating is extra difficult because it's so artistic and technical, which, unlike things like diving, causes more issues. (Not to say that this definitely doesn't happen. I don't know enough to say that).

[@plp666]

The judges hated Surya, and she was so phenomenal. What an amazing skater. Her protest was awesome. Whether she was right or not. Thx for this video. And no feathers for Witt? WTH?! What an icon.

[@suzyinstitches273]

Surya defied the judges from early on. Petty stuff like not wearing stockings. Pissed them off. Early on her programs had no artistry. Only jumps. Judges used that as ammo against her.

[@a.westenholz4032]

@@suzyinstitches273 If I recall correctly early on though she could jump she couldn't skate. Her basic skating level was awkward, and was visibly weird in comparison to every other skater out there. I can't remember what athletic discipline she came from, but she came very late to skating, but mastered the jumps very quickly, before she had really mastered all else. But she did learn and improve, and was never rewarded for that. Which just shows how much of the judging is really about their personal perception and bias, and not about how the individual skater actually performs on the day.

[@suzyinstitches273]

@@a.westenholz4032 yes it is. She had no glide out of jumps, no musicality. I think she may have been a gymnast originally.

[@icebearsuga]

After watching this… if ISU want to prioritize artistry by limiting the scores for quads (to not make it a jumping competition), why the over-scoring of nathan chen and his 4-5 quads in a single free skate :/ i swear watching his technical points jump and then followed by a… choreo that kinda tries to be modern and hip but fails… while skaters like Uno Shoma, Kagiyama Yuma, and of course yuzuru dont get that much point jump is kinda hypocritical of ISU. Nathan chen’s program/skating is nothing compared to the artistry of those three’s programs.

[@Queeniiiie]

I've watched the Olympics for a VERY long time. Artistry is not scored that high. It is ALL about the technical score. If someone makes the full rotation on a quad but falls they still get those technical points. If you want to talk artistry look at Jason Brown's skates.Full of artistry but no quads yet scored at 6th place after the long program . Nathan Chen very well deserves that gold medal he rightfully earned. Yuzuru Hanyuu made several technical mistakes that made his score drop. Stop being so salty.

[@icebearsuga]

@@Queeniiiie my comment came off as salty, but that wasn’t my intention at all. Jeez. The video was talking about ISU’s scoring and i definitely thought the “artistry>technical” kind of principle would apply to scoring in olympics. ‘Guess not, then. i’ve only started to casually keep up with JPN fs (like 2014), i wouldnt have known the prioritization of technical over artistry in the olympics. i learned something new, thanks. Jason Brown’s was filled with artistry as well, ‘can’t deny that-it felt as thought he skated because he wanted to. Very nice to see him skate again.👌🏻 i just prefer Yuruzu, Uno, and Yuma’s over his the same way you seem to prefer his. Any comments to ISU’s tendency to underscoring and over-scoring (depending on the skater) in general then?

[@Queeniiiie]

@@icebearsuga No problem. Honestly thought you would jump down my throat. LMAO It's not that I prefer Chen's routine (I actually love Jason Brown's but he'll never win) but coming down to scoring it was Chen's win. Hanyuu's definitely good but he didn't skate his best this time. It's always been a fight for first with these two. Both have always been so good skating their best in everything just Chen was better this time.

[@Queeniiiie]

Oh and the Yuna Kim Olympics she was robbed but I also think Ashley Wagner was severely underscored as well.

[@icebearsuga]

@@Queeniiiie oh Kim Yuna was obvs underscored :( that was heartbreaking to watch. As for Chen, yeah, he deserved the win for sure, but not so much pleased with the dubious high score, even with so many quads in his routine. He was on top of his game-young, too. Yuzuru was injured and too focused on 4A to actually pull off a miracle like before. announcers were talking about how he wasn’t even completing his cross-overs. As for the so-called “rivalry”… it’s too over-done. Lol. Someone be great with quads and they all be pitting that person with someone like Yuzuru, who’s achieved so much and is still pushing the limits of the whole sport. Idk why people would obsess over it, other than maybe it’s because big guys are orchestrating it to make noise… or improving their soft-power. Sports and olympics in general can be pretty political when they want it to be.

[@sisi-sg5bg]

In Sochi, the biggest scandle was Yuna, which broke my heart. But there were also scandles in pair and ice dance too. So many skaters were sacrificed for russian's greed

[@saraliliana1658]

Lo que paso con yuzu me indigno mucho apesar de que gano plata no debieron dejarlo patinar en ese estado tambien la atencion medica fue pesima después de chocar con el otro patinador no se pudo levantar del suelo y el equipo medico no llegaba lo dejaron mas de 1 minuto tirado en el suelo sangrando y despues de terminar su programa casi se desmaya indignante deben darle prioridad la salud de los deportistas

[@Elipalacios01]

It is unfortunate that for the interests of some there are judges so corrupt that they put their country before a fair rating, there should be more severe laws that punish judges if they commit corruption, that suspend them from their work for several years. Yuzuru has been unfairly judged but he still won, I hope that in the next Beijing Olympics the judges will be more fair when qualifying.

[@gulnursonmez9539]

His perfect 3A even after putting hard elements in and out of the jump is not scored -5 +5 is really unfair.

[@Elipalacios01]

@@gulnursonmez9539 Yuzuru is the only skater who makes difficult entries and exits in his jumps and still unfairly rates him, who can do better?

[@turtlefeesh]

@@Elipalacios01 They think Nathan Chen can do better

[@Elipalacios01]

@@turtlefeesh What a shame

[@aflyonthewall1963]

There are no words to describe how unfair corrupt judging is for skaters. These skaters work so hard and sacrifice so much just to get too be part of an event, then only to have their fate decide by a corrupt judge. If a judge is caught cheating they should be banned for life.

[@elaineliuu27]

im watching these 15 or 16 year old skaters fill their programs with difficult jumps, but have zero emotion. I'm happy that some skaters such as yuzuru will still remember performance score, but still have well timed and a good amount of jumps. judges have too much pressure, as well as opportunities to cheat now, and I hope isu changes that soon

[@vdubthefoxx6808]

Good for Surya. She paid a cost for being one of the first Black skaters. I’ll always be proud of her and the costs she paid

[@ghostieboi13]

She's honestly my idol as someone who is mixed! She's a Wonderful skater

[@Kaboomboo]

If only her creepy mom would let her have a consistent coach. Her raw power was just so large, she needed a good coach to hone it.

[@wxsteri2580]

I love how much you packed into this! It was so fun to watch~ I kept on pausing because I was mad (and knew of the scandals but still had to rant lol) and the video has been out for 38 minutes already. I'm only 16 minutes in. I watched as soon as I got the notif lol. Edit: 55 min later I finished lol

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Wow 1 hour well spent in your life I hope?! 😆😆😆 Yeah honestly it took us quite long to make this video too. Coz the topic is dark, and half way through it affected my mood so much as I just don't like talking about the ugly side of the sport. I've been wanting to scrap this video's idea. So I just gotta stop and watch some beautiful skating to remind myself "I love skating", mostly Hanyu's Japan Nationals programs hahahaha... Then finally came back to remake this video with a new anchor point, what rules have changed after the scandals and what can we look forward to in the future, to make it more educational rather than just criticizing.. Do share it if you can 🙏💓

[@mr.balloffur]

"People don't want to see a sport where people fall down and score above somebody who doesn't." That's garbage. Anybody who knows anything about figure skating now's the points are added together, so depending on how difficult the rest of their routine is, a fall will not make or break a gold medalist. Any more than an interception would hurt a super bowl champion. Also, backloading your program is not cheating nor is it a loophole. It's about maximizing points.

[@Siphandoneboy]

soon theres gonna be a “valieva rule” where you can’t put your arms over head in jumps more than 5 times 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😂😂

[@FigureSkatingFan]

lol~~ I laughed so hard at this comment 😜😜😜 Yup people keep saying it's so hard. It is hard for skaters trained with normal arms wrapped around the chest to do. But honestly, for skaters trained since young with arms over head, it's probably harder for them to jump without both hands up..

[@RidickRidick]

Valieva again, toxic people!!!

[@thomas8767]

As arms above the head don't count towards GOE, the "Valieva rule" has to be something else, but I'm sure ISU will find something. ^^

[@westernc5233]

Women's Figure Skating Competition is soon... I suspect we are going to have something new as a scandal :(

[@noneedtoknowmyname22]

Omg I miss this channel so much, they’ve stopped uploading since the GOAT’s retirement from competitive skating but THE VIDEOS ARE ALWAYS TOP QUALITY SO ITS ALWAYS FUN TO VISIT THEM AND RE WATCH

[@debrahead1255]

I agree with the fact the artistry is dying in figure skating because of this new scoring system. Although it could be said that before the change in the system, the opposite was happening. There were skaters who won the Olympics with a beautiful artistic performance but had huge and very obvious technical mistakes. I want the whole package when I see a skater skate and win medals, landing all of their jumps cleanly and beautiful artistry. But that's just me.

[@peripherys_lune]

I think you should make a video about the scoring in 2022 Beijing Olympics especially for ladies events. Looking at the judging scores and seeing 4 judges giving a 4 mark for an element (jump) and then there's one judge giving 0 it's just ridiculous. And more ridiculous is the fact that no one talks about it or even asks the judges to explain the situation.

[@vlcnpo]

I watched this sport for fun. Never knew i will went this deep 😂

[@samanthachan193]

When watching it just for fun, figure skating is really an entertaining sport. The deeper you learn about it, the more disappointment you will get.

[@ninzu8265]

@@samanthachan193 thats true:(((

[@mkryu]

It got knee deep back with that Nancy Kerrigan/Tonya Harding rivalry 😆

[@chc94]

This goes on at ALL levels. Back in the 80s, I attended a competition where (1) the juvenile ladies' group had 9 skaters in the compulsory figures group and 10 skaters in the freestyle group; in order to compete in the finals, skaters had to compete in the figures and (2) the 1st place skater fell on every jump, and the only skater who skated a clean program was in last (10th) place.

[@jazflanagan8693]

I honestly never knew the world of figure skating was so rich and compelling. It's so complex. I'm enjoying learning all these things about it. 😁

[@maje1ful]

Let's hope that corruption and injustice do not greatly affect the scores in these 2022 Olympic Games... and especially Yuzuru...

[@Raphann88]

I still don't get why Zagitova backloading her program was such a big deal. It was sensational to watch!!! And very brave and difficult to do!

[@junglesuperstar9270]

Boring for the first part .

[@davidvu9958]

It made her program unbalanced. A lot of filler choreo during the first half and cramming jumps/preparing for jumps during the second half. Honestly not very artistic , yet she still got high pcs.

[@butterfly6546]

@@junglesuperstar9270 is it interesting when you jump evenly across an entire program?

[@junglesuperstar9270]

@@butterfly6546 yep. It is more balanced .

[@Gradguy1]

Agreed … she was great … even better in the Europeans ‘18.

[@yohanes2034]

In my opinion we also need to call out Technical Panel bias a lot more. This video focus a lot with judges, but IMO TP hold as much as power as judges do. Like they intentionally miss edge calls for certain skaters, give UR to one but not the other, level determination, etc. Who can forget that Lakernik was the TP of ladies Sochi. He was also instrumental on some of the questionable decisions that made Sotnikova ahead. He was doing his job perfectly fine when reviewing Mao's Free Skate. Ohh I wish we can all have Shin Amano clones on all Technical Panels.

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Yeah.. But it should be in another video explaining about the entire judging process. A bit too technical though and not sure what kind of storyline can be written. 😅

[@yohanes2034]

@@FigureSkatingFan I'm actually curious how the member of technical panel is determined for each competition. They work for ISU but then sometimes they also heavily tied with their own country federations. How could you make sure no bias there. The example of baffling thing that Technical Panel did in recent history is the omission of flutz calls for Zhenya for 3 years, but when she moved to Orser suddenly they called it? Lakernik was promoted to VP of ISU after Sochi right? Not to speculate but that one of the dubious example that I could think of besides many non-call for certain skaters. So this kind of thing that IMO why ISU itself should be purged/ reformed.

[@yachuchuang3651]

@@yohanes2034 Also, ISU likes to call out Flip(!) now, but seems no call for Flutz anymore...

[@flowerpuffff]

I really want them to implement separate judging panels. One panel for the technical element score and one panel for the program component score. And it should all be from different countries, including small ones, not the big ones.

[@ravissant8921]

it's sad to see that even in lower competitions the scoring will be unfair and biased. as a skater who is now just getting into the competitive aspect of the sport, it's frustrating to see your teammates get outscored by another skater who is competing in too low of a level for their skill. it's also frustrating when other skaters do things that aren't allowed for that level and not have any repercussions just because they are from a well known team

[@gabnurse]

Unfortunately local competition don’t judge ijs until you have tested into pre-pre or higher! You’ll see more fair scores once you get into those levels ❤️

[@Rubina980]

No matter how corrupt the judges are, I will always watch Hanyus beautiful routines. It's art.

[@yohanes2034]

I've been saying that it's useless just to fix the scoring system without tackling the other issue, i.e. the judges, federations, and the ISU itself (TP bias). The Zagitova rule was not needed if judges appropriately applied deduction in the composition or other part of the PCS because the program with all the jumps in the 2nd half is not balance. But they didn't hence ISU feel the need to change the rules again. Same with -5 +5 which theoretically I'm so agree with cause it prioritize quality over quantity. But in practice the judges are still not doing their job again. But yet these judges still keep coming back to judge. PCS, this area has never been fixed and ISU refused to address this. Maybe try with separating TES with PCS judging? Make more clear and defined criteria? Or give some of the technical judging to AI to lessen the load and reduce bias? Also accountability is important, ISU should allow inquiry being made to explain why judges or TP give certain scores like in Gymnastic. Yet they did not (like in Yuna's case) or never will cause they wouldn't know how to answer. Also can we life-banned judges who known to cheat? I mean Tonya was banned for life even though she was not the one who bashed Nancy knee. It's completely ridiculous.

[@yohanes2034]

@Skate Lover well ISU agreed that putting the jumps all at the second half is not a balance program so they released the aptly called Zagitova rules. If they were fine with it then you wouldn't have this rules would you?

[@ilana4361]

В тот-то и дело, что программа Загитовой была очень грамотно построена и сбалансирована. Было логическое развитие, нарастание музыки и кульминация. Ее программа и сейчас смотрится потрясающе! Тутберидзе и ее команда просто грамотно использовали правила, написанные ISU. Тутберидзе - продукт системы. Они меняют правила, она под них подстраивается и побеждает. Они снова меняют, но она опять побеждает! Сейчас они хотят увеличить возраст для выступлений на взрослом уровне. Но результат будет тот же. И как долго это будет продолжаться? Все это лишь попытки остановить прогресс фигурного катания, искусственно его замедлить. Это дорога в никуда. Все равно будет побеждать тот, кто больше работает, лучше понимает правила и больше тренируется. Что действительно нужно как-то менять, это оценки за компоненты. Не может человек с падением получать 9,5 за компоненты! И влияние второй оценки не должно быть таким сильным на итоговую оценку, как это сейчас есть у мужчин. Мужской коэффициент нужно снижать, как у женщин. Sorry for the Russian language. Use the Google translator

[@FigureSkatingFan]

Honestly I like Alina's Don Quixote program, it's well choreographed to fit the music. But then, remember in season 2016 through to 2018, it became such an unstoppable trend that a lot of lady skaters were trying to backload their programs.. Some fit the music and some don't. But to score higher, it's necessary at that time. Just glad that it was over. Separating PCS and TES judges may help really..

[@yohanes2034]

@Skate Lover I did not comment specifically on Alina's Don Quixote but I was speaking generally about the rules itself. Many had abused the system before her regardless if the programs were built for backloading. In composition of the PCS, it it describes about purpose and phrasing. So if judges uses the PCS to hammer down on backloading we might not be needing this "Zagitova rules". I agree though that it's far from scandal if compared to everything else presented in the video.

[@gulnursonmez9539]

In Alina's case, first part of the programme was boring, so some of the PCS could be cut down. But I liked her way of skating, she really looked like a ballerina.

[@TheRightToBeRandom]

I think some people forget that the Strong short program goes a Long way in making up for a mistake in the free skate. It's important to have a cushion going into the free skate. I think the rule changes helped ice dancing more than the other disciplines because (imo) the judges used to be hella biased.

[@mikroshkin]

10:46 why was it impossible to properly cut off the moment with Sikharulidze's mistake? There are a lot of videos on the Internet showing that he made not such a big mistake - an extra step after landing. Therefore, for the technique the Russian couple had ratings lower than the Canadian ones, but they were given more for their artistry. Their assessments were very close, and there were a great many such controversial situations, since the 6.0 system does not give a large spread. And the second place of Slutskaya and Plushenko at the same Olympiad was also controversial.

[@daretodream9765]

WTF? Plushy's silver in 2002 was never controversial, in 2010 maybe, but here? Never heard anyone complaining about Yagudin's victory

[@gulnursonmez9539]

@@daretodream9765 Yagudin is one of the legends in ice skating.

[@daretodream9765]

@@gulnursonmez9539 agree, he's my favorite Russian skater

[@junglesuperstar9270]

Perfect explanation . Plus , Canadians skated their programme for the second year, which was a kinda big no.

[@mikroshkin]

@@daretodream9765 According to the 6.0 system, no one denied Yagudin's victory, but his confrontation with Plushenko was actively discussed. And the question was more in the free program, it was technically more difficult for Plushenko, but he did not correctly land one of the jumps in the cascade, for which he received marks in technique much lower than Yagudin, who skated his program cleanly. And already before that it was discussed that the 6.0 system does not quite objectively assess the difference in the complexity of programs, and if you make a small mistake with a more complex program, then it is fatal and you lose medals. This system slowed down the development of figure skating, athletes could do more complex elements, but did not risk it for fear of error, this is one of the reasons for the cancellation of the 6.0 system.

[@Amelia-li2cw]

the thing with hanyu falling and still getting a medal, is that he came back, he tried again, most skaters would not do that.

[@verybarebones]

He should not have been allowed to skate at all! This sport puts a good show as more important than the athletes lives. Disgusting, if it doesnt change i have to hope it disappears altogether.

[@ВалентинаСмагина-х5ъ]

Что ж ничего не сказали и не затронули скандальную одимпиаду 2010 года, и как засудили Плющенко, со сложнейшими 4ми прыжками, отдав золотосвоему Лайзачеку, который даже их не пытался и не умеет прыгать!!! Вот скандал, это СтРАННОЕ судейство!!!! Ну,да!!! Он же Россию представляет!!!

[@cakecherry6232]

Вот то и надо карма

[@KatherineUribe-1]

Whatever. Watching Yuzuru Hanyu skate is witnessing perfection. Period.