Top 5 Most Useless Technologies | AoE2

[@HeraAgeofEmpires2]

Did i miss any useless tech?

[@xerxes7416]

Guilds!

[@АндрейГончаров-Горянский]

Hussite reforms? Still haven't seen it even onse, simply too expensive and only available when you don't wanna go mass monks

[@LS-or8cd]

Loom? 😏

[@sreeganesh5684]

Husbandry for aztecs.

[@proper_noun436]

Loom kek

[@demiserofd]

Nomads should research instantly, and give 10 to 25 pop space plus the current effect. Basically an instant fix to being housed at some point in the game.

[@HeraAgeofEmpires2]

Interesting point!

[@Mattroid99]

Cool idea honestly!

[@se6369]

​@@Mattroid99Not really, but that is just my opinion

[@CrnaStrela]

Sounds like something for forest nothing

[@tiancheng8549]

I would prefer to see Nomads return 40% of building's construction resources when buildings are destroyed.

[@sicklad21]

Hera: "Nomads tech is useless" Hera's shorts: "That was the worst quickwall of my life... I deleted all my houses??" 11

[@oknad2]

would be cool if atheism give you that 50% gold of opponents relics

[@nimamoradi2779]

you want to make atheism a religion 11

[@btarczy5067]

It would make more sense if it was called „paganism“ as atheism wasn’t much of a thing in those days. And it would fit in with robbing religious sites or simply destroying artifacts as the tech‘s utility suggests.

[@fuyoutubeck]

Huns did extract huge tributes from the Eastern Roman Balkan cities so it makes perfect sense

[@mrskinny8555]

Build the man a statue! That's actually a great idea. It's not OP, but a cool idea on the theme of raiding.

[@TekoraX]

Honestly, wouldn't it make sense to have Atheism give conversion resistance as well? It makes a lot of thematic sense, and would give hun players a reason to get the tech at least. Only two other civs have conversion resistance bonuses/techs besides faith, so it should be viable. Ideally, it would make units immune to conversion, but that would be too broken.

[@victoire4881]

I'm a low ELO player, and Nomad helped me recently in a game where my opponent was constantly raiding my houses and I was struggling to build back my mangudai army. I had to move my TC two times or so. It helped, so that I did not have to constantly rebuilt houses everywhere, and I could focus on making and controlling army

[@TheNethertyp]

Medical Corps is actually quite decent after the recent patch. On Elephant Archers, regeneration is much more relevant because they have a good chance that they survive after being attacked (unlike Berserks), and Elephant Archers push the game into having very grindy, drawn-out battles.

[@souloftheworld9810]

It's still not good imo. A single halb attack still needs a minute to heal. You still need to wait like 5-10 minutes for a good heal. If it ever comes into play, you were already doing pretty well. The only situation where it's good is team games, where the front line can stall and give you time to heal.

[@teddyhaines6613]

@@souloftheworld9810 Remember, Dravidian elephant archers fire as fast as Ethiopian arbs. The idea is that halbs will get mown down before they land hits, and it's archer/skirm/building fire that you're hoping to heal off.

[@souloftheworld9810]

@@teddyhaines6613 It just doesn't work that way in practice. If your opponent has a huge mass of halbs, you need your own meatshield, or you will lose your ele archers. Dravidians lack bloodlines, husbandry, and parthian tactics, and the numbers just don't hold up. There is a reason why Hera put it in the video.

[@mradul2474]

​@@souloftheworld9810 it doesn't just work on elephant archers, it also works on seige elephants which is pretty cool as the elephants will heal as they are being attacked by the castle.

[@CrnaStrela]

Yeah honestly I can only see it being decent on siege elephants, the ele archers can't utilize this as much and dravidians doesn't have elite battle elephants, this tech is mad useless even after the update.

[@gaboralmasi1225]

I think Nomads can be quite useful on Amazon Tunnel, especially in team games, as space in the base for farms and trade can be really scarce.

[@MAKGaming30]

100% Black forest to, or any time your struggling for space, but in most 1v1 it's not going to do much and if it does it just means your in a losing position

[@fuyoutubeck]

I always pick Nomads in arena team games and then delete the houses

[@praevasc4299]

Or on a megarandom generating especially tiny islands...

[@Skyace13]

Paper money can actually be useful if you never get horse collar 11

[@TheLive100]

i think of medical corps like an hp upgrade. Whoever survives regenerates maybe 10hp until next combat, but this 10hp makes it survive a hit more.

[@maxbellec]

Hera : doesn't make horse collar so needs more wood cutters to replenish them Also Hera : who has like 40 villagers on wood to make Paper Moeny usefull?

[@battleforevermore]

Stone shaft mining should be stone lasts 25% longer, giving you more stone from the same pile. Might make it very very useful.

[@demiserofd]

That would make it too powerful tbh. The civs that have it would gain SO much stone it'd be ridiculous and completely change how they play compared to the others. Honestly I think it just needs to be more powerful and maybe research faster. Something like, "You can research Stone Shaft Mining instantly if you've already researched Gold Shaft Mining." That way if you need a castle NOW, you can burn some other resources to get it faster.

[@dustyacer]

i mean they are significantly lowering the cost. 25% longer is so overpowered its not even funny.

[@edwardblom2661]

10/15% then, might give you an extra castle

[@battleforevermore]

I think there is 1500 stone at your base in arabia. So 25% is 375 stone. You are still spending 250 res for 375 stone if you haven't started mining it already.

[@kalleekstrom6770]

If Stone (and Gold) Shaft Mining made it so that Stone and Gold lasts longer as well (like Malians' bonus) there would be a seriour strategy decision whether to prioritise early economy (by not getting it) and late economy (by getting it and thus getting more stone/gold later).

[@HeraAgeofEmpires2]

Agreed!

[@kalleekstrom6770]

@@HeraAgeofEmpires2 Cool! Would it be broken if Farm upgrades also affected existing farms, but provoding proportionally less F than than for newly built farms? For example, Horse Collar gives +75F to a new Farm, but only +50F to a farm that has 2/3F remaining, and +25F to a Farm that has 1/3 remaining.

[@estellebright2579]

But then we run the risk of overstepping civ bonuses with those effects. Make them stack? Then these effects on generic civs would have to be so weak that it doesn’t make a difference. Devs would also have to rebalance a ton of techs. Dunno about that one.

[@viktorreiter8811]

they should have just abolished the revolution mechanism altogether and make a cheap tech that allows the player to train flemish militia from TCs (and barracks maybe).

[@connormako1987]

Spear line +1 range

[@JohnSmithEx]

The Flemish revolution is a tech fun to watch. I don't understand why pro players hate it so much. It's the same with the legendary mango delete trick: it was so fun that it had to be removed. The pro players will say: "The Flemish revolution was nerfed because it is a bad tech". No, it was nerfed to the ground because YOU lobbied against this tech with such a passion and for so long.

[@connormako1987]

@@JohnSmithEx its not fun to win or be beat by something broken or op imo.

[@viktorreiter8811]

@@JohnSmithEx i completely agree with you, but you also have to consider that AOE2 is both a fun game and a professional e-sport. you cannot really have fun techs if they are unbalanced for competitive play. so i agree that they had to do something with it, but i hate that with this nerf they made it completely useless. there is no point in having the tech in the game anymore. it's not used in competitive play and it's not fun for casual players (militia got nerfed so much, they are just getting shredded by anything your opponent makes). they should rework it completely to at least have a tech that player actually use sometimes.

[@JohnSmithEx]

​@@connormako1987 the tech was OP when it first came out with the "Lords of The West" expansion. It was nerfed in later patches to a point that it was fairly balanced, with games going either way after researching the tech. Personally I am not a player. I am talking as a regular viewer of AOE2 content. Reaching the Flemish climax of the battle was always fun to watch, until the latest patch that removed all the suspense, because now it's just a losing move.

[@MrHeorhe]

I think the atheism tech is more for snowballing and pushing an advantage you already have harder. You pointed out how if you have fewer relics by a lot it might be worth it, but if you have 3 relics generating gold and your opponent only has 2, with atheism you have 3x the passive gold income which has to account for something in a late game scenario where all the gold is mined

[@Fenet2000]

Choosing Paper Money over Hussite reforms seems a little weird to me Hussite reforms is much more expensive and only applies in imp when hussars are everywhere. It is the third worst tech right now after Nomads and Atheism in my opinion

[@CrnaStrela]

Hussite reform at least makes you able to research monk techs without using gold, in case you wanted to get heresy and faith so your houfnice won't get converted anymore. Paper money is just abysmal. It came up too late and it has horrible conversion rate, this is worse than other get "y resources everytime you gather x resources" because it is a tech. If this is a civ bonus, I would say it's still bad but at least you don't have to pay for it, but paper money being imperial age upgrade that cost 750 resources is just downright insulting.

[@lucianosoldavini7950]

I agree 100%

[@AS.47]

The biggest design flaw of atheism and nomads is that these techs only help you when you're already losing. Much better to invest into something that prevents you from getting into that position in the first place. Nomads would be fine as a passive civ bonus. And I absolutely agree with you about the flemish revolution. It's kinda like the cuman 2 tc feudal boom. It's either op or complete trash. Really hope it will be replaced entirely.

[@imperator8125]

I actually managed to use nomads on a long Michi game. My partner and I were trading and I optimized their pathing by deleting all my houses. Pretty niche but still actually worth the res

[@fuyoutubeck]

basically ANY tech is worth it if you're floating res and that's how you should be playing those drawn out maps like Michi, Arena, BF etc

[@MrMats17]

Fun top 5 idea! Keep m coming!

[@hansoskar1911]

Nomads was ironically OP in DM when you would only need to build 1% of a house to and then delete tog et the 5 pop space. whcih drstically increases the amount of army you can spam. The other thing about Nomads: at the point in the game when Unique techs come into play Mongols dont need any help. So giving them a useful tech would propably be a mistake. It would be nice if it applied to your entire team so you can free the tradeline in Teamgames.

[@PauxloE]

The last time I've seen such a list, it was called "Worst upgrades for AoE2", and of course someone in the comments said "AoE 3".

[@teddyhaines6613]

The irony of Atheism is that it'd be most useful on Arena with all the relic wars and games dragging late. But then you're playing Huns on Arena which is already a disaster waiting to happen, so you're still liable to lose badly.

[@Jade.Phoenix]

Nomads is really useful for a low to mid level player and if you lose your base and have to rebuild elsewhere. I have had games where we literally switched sides on a map. In a 1v1 game sure it's useless, but in a LAN party with 5 to 8 players, it really helps a lot more. Granted as Mongols you will be on the offensive a lot more than defensive given how OP the Mangudai are. Elephant healing is useful for campaigns, slower games, and grinds. Stone mining is helpful to use up the stone as fast as possible and then kill off the villagers for population room - either military or trade.

[@alecjohnst1512]

Nomads can be an absolute lifesaver if at any stage if your castles or base are likely to be pushed. Getting housed suddenly and having to worry about building more whilst also not producing makes the cost seem like a bargin. Not to mention how it can help you clear up your trade routes, which will easily pay it back.

[@lucianosoldavini7950]

It's better to spend wood buliding random houses just in case that happens than spending gold . . .

[@jonrite4]

I like to think that with nomads on arena you could give yourself more space in your base but I've never done that and likely never will

[@fuyoutubeck]

yeah I always do that I build the houses in the front of the arena to shut down any possible aggression ( I'm talking tgs not 1v1 ofc ) and then when things settle I get nomads and delete and baaam I have an empty base with eco at the back well protected

[@andomlyranonymous6488]

I had a game recently where I was being super pushed (got carried so hard that game. Was 2v2.) and the only reason I even had pop space was because I got the tech before deleting all my houses for farm space on black forest! :')

[@praevasc4299]

"Nomads" should be a passive civ bonus for Magyars (as they don't have an eco bonus), but with a different effect: that they don't need houses in the dark age. They should still be able to build them (because they will need them at least while upgrading to feudal). This would reflect how they were historically a nomadic civilization who settled down later. And the bonus won't be that big, since they'd need to build the houses anyway while aging up. Or this could be something for all civilizations which historically have been nomadic. It would make the early game a little more varied.

[@BirdMoose]

The only time I've researched atheism was when playing an Aztec player who got 4/6 relics on our map gen. They were still generating more gold then me, but I think it did genuinely make a difference as it wasn't astronomically more

[@tyranitararmaldo]

Good to see this after several of the "UU only" techs got binned.

[@shepardthemailman]

The funny thing is that Paper Money used to be even worse

[@CrnaStrela]

I'd say straight up giving 500 gold to your allies is much better than slowly trickling gold by overchopping.

[@anghainguyen9951]

No iconic that on paper it give more gold than the new one unless the game darg for so long...

[@aninen46862]

The only real tactical use for Nomads would be to max pop limit out upon researching. It's like the Hun bonus, but triggering only in mid-late game and needs a Castle. Mongols almost always use Castles for Mangudai so will fit right in with the playstyle. Assuming this kicks in at total pop 100-140 in a 200 pop game, that's a savings of 500w (25w x 20 houses) or lower. Mongols don't have a mid-game eco bonus so this could help somewhat. Also helps Mongol aggression.

[@Mattroid99]

I was expecting Cuman Mercenaries at least in the top 3, is pretty much worthless. Kipchaks are not a good unit already, and they have to be massed first so the one use I can find of it is if you need a few Elite Kipchaks and you can't get the upgrade already (Or for super lategame but even there 2 trebs do more than 10/20 kipchaks) Same in team games, like how often will your flanks or you on pocket ever go for Kipchaks lol. And how much 10/15 of them will do anyways besides a bit of raiding

[@PauxloE]

For Cuman Mercenaries, just from the name I'd expect my allies to pay for the Kipchaks and me getting that money, not me paying it and the allies just getting them for free.

[@Mattroid99]

@@PauxloE Same. Or at least allow them to train them indefintely from Castles if they want it, i don't know. Is a tech that has no place in the meta as of now and needs rethinking.

[@vitorsousasilva]

Hera: Paper Money is useless Forest Nothing: 👀

[@demiserofd]

Flemish Revolution's biggest problem is that it is either OP or useless, there is no middle ground. What if it were cheaper like before, but it only lasted maybe 5 minutes? So you would need to use it NOW to turn the tide, and get value out of it before it goes away? Then they all turn back to normal villagers again. This would also make it better for defense than offense since you'd lose some time getting them over to your enemy.

[@Mattroid99]

I think it probably wouldn't see much play even there, you sacrifice all your eco for a bit of time and I can just camp you out and then you are in a worst spot. For me the only way to make that tech acceptable is to give it a long research window (Like 3 minutes), be uninterruptible once you research it, and advise all players of it when the research starts. That is the only way to make it fair at this point

[@demiserofd]

@@Mattroid99 It SHOULDN'T be a universally-useful tech. Having counterplay to it would be good; but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be useful in the right situations. IE, if they're trebbing your base and you have nothing to counter with. Going flemish revolution would guarantee the loss of your siege at the bare minimum, and especially in the lategame, that could be enough to change the course of the game. The problem is, the current flemish revolution doesn't stop after killing the siege; it just keeps going and wipes out the entire enemy, which is too powerful. By putting a time limit on it, it could be very powerful while it lasts, but not so powerful as to completely win the game on its own. Game-changing, but not game-*breaking*.

[@Mattroid99]

@@demiserofd In that case I'll let the siege die out if needed, minimize the losses and know that I simply have to wait a few minutes to push again (And since the militia is so slow, you won't have much time to claw back the space to begin with), and then you'll have absolutely nothing to defend and your eco will be completely destroyed for several minutes. Unless the push is very fragile already doesn't seem a very viable use case to me even there. The problem is that since it has no warning until it is researched, there is zero counterplay avaliable besides the guessing game. And in that case is all about how strong the tech is. If is strong, is polarizing (Are you ready? Then you can manage, otherwise is gg), if not is completely worthless as it is now. Advising early but making it long to research would make it more fair to prepare against (You could back up, tech into something to face it or push harder, for isntance)

[@demiserofd]

@@Mattroid99 Like I said, there *should* be counterplay, and the fact you can think of ways to counter them is a good thing. But just like, say, trapping an enemy army, sometimes the enemy makes mistakes, gets over-aggressive. Sometimes they just get outskilled. In a fair game, both sides are using 100% of their resources, so even just one tide turned can completely change the course of a game. That's the niche Flemish Revolution *should* fill. The counterplay isn't having a ridiculously long time to prepare; that would only make the entire tech pointless and boring. The counterplay is delaying, retreating, quickwalling, and buying time until you can weather the storm. That's *exciting!* But only if the storm does, eventually, end. Currently, it doesn't. If it had a time limit, it would. And that's what would take it from unfair and unbearable, to fun and interesting.

[@Mattroid99]

@@demiserofd The issue is not that current Flemish Revolution has no counterplay, the issue is that the effect was so polarizing that the counterplay revolved into a guessing game. A long time to prepare still means you have to be ready in your decision making. 3-5 minutes, for instance, aren't that long in game time. I wouldn't call that set in stone as a situation, there are many ways to approach it from both sides. I guess this is a subjective way to look at the topic, but having to retreat and play defensive for 5 minutes and camp out the revolution before destroying him seems extremely boring. You just have to outlast him (Not hard at all in a small minute window vs slow infantry) and then your push will be even stronger because he will have zero resources or units to defend since all his vils are Militias. Defeats the entire point of the tech while still being an annoyance/subject of frustration

[@dustyacer]

other honourable mentions imo: burgundian vineyards (costs a lot of gold, needs a long time to pay off. its ok but only good in very late game 1v1). Idk why this isnt included when u included paper money, when paper money doesnt cost gold while vineyards does. I do get that there is less wood on the map.and usually u have less on wood . Also the chinese great wall kinda sucks. Only really good on closed maps, but not even great.

[@roberc.1555]

My understanding was that nomads not only prevents you from getting housed when losing houses, it also applies to losing a castle. So even if they push your castle, you don’t lose that population. Please someone tell me if I got this one wrong

[@CarlosRodriguez-iz8tr]

Nomad should be free since dark age and the Unique Tech should be replaced with something else.

[@aanrrat1354]

Instead of making preventing houses from losing pop space, Nomads should just give Mongols the Hun bonus of instant max pop cap. Not only would this make the tech more situationally worth it for its cost, it would also give an instant bonus in making houses Irrelevant.

[@K1AoE]

my thoughts exactly. then you can actually justify getting it even in early game, especially if they also replace the gold cost with food

[@Activist88]

when i play mongols i always enjoyed Nomad because sometimes i dont always get a flush space to put my houses, this way i can put them anywhere for the most part then just delete them when i get the upgrade and dont gotta worry bout it anymore lol

[@magnussonborski2664]

now can you make top 5 most useful techs

[@HeraAgeofEmpires2]

Fletching bodkin bracer double bit axe bow saw

[@connormako1987]

@@HeraAgeofEmpires211

[@gmwdim]

Hera needs his blacksmith upgrades even if it means no loom 11

[@dragovern]

On team games as mongols I have regreted not having Nomads in the cases where my base was erased and me migrating while being unable to reboom because of the houses

[@MsWheems]

@hera Ive actually won team ranked games because of this upgrade, the gold to afford units from my 1 castle otherwise we would have been wiped. Stone and gold depleted, it was quite the fight but due to having the amazing pierce of the Castle Archers, we managed to make a comback. But only made it useful once, just once, but it was a wonderful victory.

[@BrownFoxWarrior]

Between T90's talk of confusing techs and mentioning here useless techs, makes you wonder if any of these will get changed again to make it more useful (like how Atheism used to not even half relic gold so it was even more situational). With the recent game overhaul patch earlier in the year, it wouldn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

[@ashina2146]

5. I think the only way to make it viable is to have like 2x2 Gold and Stone Mine Deposits that you can build Mine Shafts on top which gave 1600 Gold and 700 Stone resources, but Villagers/Deep Miners Mine these Resources 50% slower, the Mineshafts can be rebuilt once being exhausted. 4. Atheism could have another effect of Enemy Monks getting Damaged for 20 Hitpoints upon a successful conversion, which might or might not matter if there's enough monks to heal every conversion, but a successful conversion could still put those monks in trouble. 3. Perhaps a new effect can be made, like Double the Healing if the Elephant unit is engaging, or triple the healing of Monks when healing elephants. 2. Nomads could be changed to Houses Build 200% Faster and generate a miniscule amount of food, like around 0,05 Food per houses. 1. For Paper Money I think a new Effect of Replaces 50% of Technologies Gold cost to Wood, so the Arbalester Upgrades that usually cost 450 Food and 200 Gold become 450 Food, 100 Wood, and 100 Gold.

[@LowELOLegion]

Yeah, I imagined Paper Money would be considered the worst. It's too costly, slow and the effect is too small to even matter.

[@ovrava]

Good Video, If you want these videos to be more acessable to noobs like me, show the costs and effects of the technologies. I had to look up two because didn't remember what they do.

[@HeraAgeofEmpires2]

Ok thanks for the feedback!

[@K1AoE]

both effects and cost of the techs discussed in this video are visible on the screen tho!

[@ovrava]

@@K1AoE True, sorry. i might have overlooked that and then Checked only the flamish revolution Tech, which was the only one without.

[@MrHeorhe]

Paper money sounds like it's only good on water maps where you want 40+ vills on wood to fund the navy and where food isn't as much of a concern but goldnis incredibly valuable

[@HeraAgeofEmpires2]

Even then the wood runs out too fast to really pay off

[@harooooo1]

would you invest 4-5 hussars and 4-5 skirms (a.k.a. the cost of the vietnamese unique tech) to grab 2 relics in imperial age (the effect with 40 lumberjacks). I don't think the tech is as bad as you make it out to be. It used to be much worse back when it costed gold, but now that it changed it honestly doesn't make sense to tag it as the most useless tech in the game lol, it's far from it, i'd put it somewhere in a mid tier.

[@mubashirulmoula1798]

Will Stone Shaft Mining be worth to get after its cost reduction in upcoming patch?

[@jasonsmith1950]

One other use case I could see for nomads is on a map like 4 quarters where players could lose a base and still have a reasonably good shot at winning the game. But that is still such a niche situation that it is pretty much useless.

[@bensonrabe6728]

FINALLY i know the amount of gold Paper money generates. I started playing Vietnamese on black forrest and arena just to use paper money, but couldn't tell how useful it is.

[@Johnnybravo40]

I think nomads should just be a civ bonus, like the Huns not needing houses at all, mongols just never need to rebuild, which obviously isn't nearly as good

[@justincronkright5025]

24 woodcutters I think (post-imperial lumberjacks & jills) for 1 relic! I think it should give EXTRA woodcutting speed as a bonus. So it's 20%, 20%, 10% for wood upgrades... if they gave paper-money a bonus to woodcutting maybe even something absurd it would reduce that number necessary & allow you to make proper use of the tech more easily. I've played Viet/Champ from the start & although I get this tech ASAP (unless needing trebs), I think you're right on this FRONT & right on the 100% faster researching techs bonus *In a sense*... where we need better middle ground. Either make this tech a castle age one and reduce its cost maybe by 100 food (food is just too precious in castle age), but give it a wood cost increase. Or give them the new economic upgrade research time reduction - except reduce the value to 50-75%. I will argue NON-stop however, that the reduction in gold cost for imperial skirms is necessary/deserved (when you compare its cost to other things - mainly the genitour as I've mentioned).

[@DantoG]

Paper money has one reason, give gold when there is none left and give trebuchets/cannon. And works well, is no op, but is not useles, it gives 900-1500 gold in a 45min(1.7) arabia game. 4 trebs excluding the pay of the tech? Thanks

[@markusdegenhardt8678]

Paper money is a very strong upgrade. In post Imp players are selling wood and food all the time. And with this tech you sell 750 trash resources for two relics. Thats 60 Gold per minute. --> 600 Gold after just 10 minutes. The value of this tech in drawn out battles is very high.

[@lincolnvolk7609]

Nomads has a use of ffa when rebuilding a nearly wiped base is somewhat reasonable

[@OOO-mn1ds]

Nomads should be a litlle more costly and replace tc stone cost with wood

[@papermaniac]

How to correct these techs: 1 stone shaft mining should cost less and Also should have an added effect like " stone mines last longer". 2 atheism should get back the discount on spies in some form while keeping the current effect. 3 medical corps should givee a better regeneration to elephants, and it should Also enable scout cavalry to regenerate ( just for giving some value to their terrible stable units) 4 replace nomads current effect with " Mills, lumber camps, mining camps, houses, Town centers barracks archery ranges and stables can pack/unpack into a "packed yurt" unit. 5 i don't have any idea on how to fix flemish revolution perhaps burgundians should get something different and get the flemish militia available when researching that.6 paper money is an easy one, the devs just have to make the gold generation better.

[@Nameles84]

I would say that Stone mining will only worth it if it is upgraded in a Resources Mod map : E.g. there is a mod that increase resources by x6 or x10 (if I'm not wrong)

[@wolborg2]

Atheism won a MR game for me. 8 relics or so on the map and game went late into halb on half trash was but I saved up for some trebs etc that they couldn't. Don't think I'd have won without!

[@Johnnybravo40]

And atheism should also make players units unable to be converted, as opposed to resistance or just dying instead of changing sides

[@tomascayul5728]

great wall is pretty bad tech, but i wanted to mention that you can see paper money as a tech that improves the selling prices of your wood in late game, so it gives you more gold if you accumulate wood. form that perspecctive it doesn't sound that bad

[@faruksarihan]

About stone shaft mining, what if you're Poles?

[@JamesFodor]

"Medical corpse"

[@aksamurai1570]

I played a game today and nomad helped save me, I'm 900 Elo and I had a game today where I lost 60 villagers but came back to win the game 😂😅. I only killed around 16 of my opponents villagers throughout the game too 😆! I was also stuck in castle for awhile while he was in imp slowly pushing me into the corner of the map and so I needed space so I got nomad which helped a lot especially because I needed to focus on other things😅

[@jennystrandqvist1568]

Year revision. Paper money is better than most of the list but probably still belong. Nomads tech tiny bit more useful as in teamgames it has become more common for flanks to try hold on their own while pocket does something else, resulting in that the flank might need to relocate their base to the pocket if things don't go well... and then when two players need to share the same space, no houses becomes more valueable. Atheism should make your units immune to monks converting them... but besides being too boring it should almost mean that Huns wouldn't get to make monks or at least not convert enemy units as well.

[@jennystrandqvist1568]

Elite Turtle Ship maybe :)

[@fuyoutubeck]

that's a good one 11

[@Zepoz]

And to think that atheism used to be an even worse tech before

[@Zepoz]

Same for paper money 11

[@Igor369]

Nomads need greek fire treatment. But i am not sure what could secondary benefit be without making mongols op...

[@SirCobraXI]

What do you think about stone shaft mining on Nomad?

[@viethoangtrantrinh6519]

i always thought some of the monestaries tech are bad, am i missing something?

[@HeraAgeofEmpires2]

They are bad but usually situational, not useless

[@iwersonsch5131]

Tiniest chaos pit FFA (without TC arrows) would probably see Nomads shine

[@estellebright2579]

But then the game would likely not last long enough to make that tech useful anyways.

[@iwersonsch5131]

@@estellebright2579 A serious possibility indeed. Though in an FFA, two players might survive long enough even on this map size

[@herramientak]

¿Cómo funcionan las tecnologías del mercado?

[@demiserofd]

What if you are using stone shaft mining to steal an enemy's stone?

[@HeraAgeofEmpires2]

Still takes too long to pay off prolly

[@fuyoutubeck]

@@HeraAgeofEmpires2 no no in that case it's playing out into the point you made where with stone you just want to mine the whole thing, so if it's the enemy stone you can get pushed off of it any second so faster mining means more stone in this case which is not bad

[@Comradez]

Nomads should make town centers require 50% less stone.

[@lucianosoldavini7950]

There's no way Paper Money is worst than Nomad. Very usual Comp for Vietnamese in Imp is Halb+Arb+Bombard Cannon and all of those units cost wood so you are supossed to have many vills on wood, hence Paper Money is not a bad investment at all. Nomad on the other hand is never a good choice in an actual game. I wouldn't even include Paper Money on this list to be honest since it's not a bad tech at all.

[@schmeed0000]

"medical corpse"

[@jimmyjames5953]

Nomads is pretty useless 11. I've always felt like I'd like to see the Mongol CA have a distinct role from the Mangudai, so maybe changing this tech is an opportunity to do that. Maybe nomads could let CA take less bonus damage or something and that way if you want a high DPS unit you go Mangudai but if you want the more durable option you can go for CA?

[@Spicy_wiener]

I thought he was talking about generic techs like supplies, heated shot etc.

[@se6369]

Is the first one useful for Poles?

[@Yang.Wenli33]

Why no one mentions Silk Road tech of Italians? I always thought that one has to be one of the worst ones. Sure, getting a discount on trade units sound good on paper for team games, but it literally costs gold. Besides, it's too situational. It can only help to restore your trade line, but if you are losing your trade to need Silk Road's effect to kick in, then, I don't think that match is salvageable. I don't know, I never liked that tech, but maybe I'm alone on this one, and maybe I miss some points. What do u think about Silk Road tech Hera?

[@eliecergalvis4191]

I totally agree, we need these changes!

[@yiyoascen]

I actually once won a BF game with nomads. I walled really hard with so many houses, my enemy didnt think i would suddenly delete them all and raid with mangudai

[@0344478]

I thought Heresy might make ur list @Hera. Would it have made ur Top 10?

[@zeekbt_dores]

I'm honestly shocked nomads isn't first. I guess it's cool for deleting houses and getting space in late game? But it never matters that much 11

[@HeraAgeofEmpires2]

It was close 11

[@blvck5943]

Would paper money be good on forest nothing?

[@mostafaalavi519]

I agree, I hope devs change those techs asap

[@Monkeybone_]

nomads would be OK if it was just wood to research, maybe 300 Wood and nothing else

[@mrskinny8555]

#1 hurts so much, an this is the improved version 😬 Especially since their other unique tech doesn't really do a huge amount. Its fun on Michi but not a game changer.

[@mrskinny8555]

The problem with paper money is it sounds good on paper....

[@anghainguyen9951]

Well funny enough the old one are more effective...

[@Uellp]

Medical corpse is very useful - in the Dravidian campaign, where there are missions where you can't reproduce units, but you do have time to regenerate your eles. In RM, yeah it's useless.

[@Tobotimus]

Indeed medical corpse is very useful, you can learn a lot about anatomy and physiology by studying a dead body.

[@Zepoz]

I mostly hate Flemish revolution because I sometimes press it unintentionally.

[@HeraAgeofEmpires2]

Omg that must suck lmao

[@MrMaxiARG]

I still choose paper money rather than nomads 2bh

[@danneukirch4486]

I like playing as Vietnamese. What a shame paper money is no good. It sounds great. I’ve been picking it up but honestly had no idea how much gold it was generating (or how little).

[@animez7077]

Hera you are forgetting the stone nothing map. Stone shaft mining is op there. Atheism is op is relic nothing.

[@TombstoneThe]

Elephant Archer's base HP means they cannot be one-shot and can even survive multiple onager shots. they don't "need" it, but if you have a group of 40, you'll have equivalent healing of multiple monks with the group but as a passive, no Gold expenditure or population space. reccomending 4-5 monks over Medical Corps is asinine bro! Id also reccomend not looking at "time to heal from 1 hp", instead think: "how long does it take to heal 40 HP?" an Arbalest gets one-shot by an onager and dies. An Elephant Archer gets hit by an onager and heals that 40 hp back in a little over a minute, that gives them a big advantage over baseline Archers. its also again worth noting it effects siege elephants too. since they take 1 damage from all piercing damage, the regen feels really good. self-repairing rams are bae

[@TombstoneThe]

i am a big Dravidians fan so sorry if this is a big nerd post. maybe in 1v1 it seems silly but in team games i think Dravidians Ele Archers might be the strongest ranged unit to mass, even better than War Wagons, and the regen is one of the big reasons why because if you play smart and dont overextend you can rewatch the replay and find Ele Archer heroes with 20+ kills quite often

[@classicalmusic1337]

The s in medical corpse is silent

[@thesippedsapper]

paper money is OP on forest nothing map

[@aussiejinjo]

should have just listed 5 monk techs

[@hzkaka5425]

aztecs may disagree with u sir

[@aussiejinjo]

@@hzkaka5425 spending that much on such a niche strat is not viable

[@tag180rotax]

I've won a FFA game because of Nomads, so it's situational

[@shulkerbgaming]

I know your list isn't necessarily meant for custom maps but Nomads and Paper Money are good on a map called Forest Nothing. Personally I always like to include Heated Shot in a list like this. I know it has plenty of usefulness on water maps but the name of it makes it sound like it should be a great tech for any map. On any map that lacks or has very little water this tech will do absolutely nothing for you.

[@jonrite4]

with the upcoming discount to stone shaft mining will it suddenly become not useless? edit: nvm you brought it up 11

[@JohnSmithEx]

I am socked by Hera's explanation about why Atheism is bad (at 2:08). His argument initially is that Atheism is more useful if your opponent has much more relics than you, like 4:1. But then he changes his mind, saying that it's more reasonable to research this tech if your opponent has 3 relics or less. A total mess. Actually the best case scenario for this tech is if you have zero relics and your opponent has 5. This way you half your opponent's relic advantage, and you can proceed winning the game using your eco advantage that you presumably have by not investing on monks and scouts to capture the relics.

[@HeraAgeofEmpires2]

My point was that it doesnt solve the issue of opponent having a higher gold trickle than u. Yes u get more value if opponent has 5 relics, but chances are u still lose if he has 2.5 relics after researching it. So it has no winning opportunities more often than not. Also tech is 800 res which is way more than monastery and monks ur opponent made, so ur wrong onthat point for sure

[@JohnSmithEx]

​@@HeraAgeofEmpires2 so would it be a useful tech if it was cheaper and available in castle age? Would it make sense to omit the relic battle, and go straight for a castle and Atheism research?