Top Nine Weakest Armies in Warhammer 40K by Win Rate - Who's Struggling and Why?

[@olepetzold3264]

Oh you forgot the weakest one; The army under my command, no matter the faction

[@vxicepickxv]

You could probably beat me. I'm absolutely cursed when it comes to rolling damage.

[@olepetzold3264]

@ i lost like 39/40 matches in 10th. As soon as i take a risk to not fall behind the dice say nope.

[@thisisalie-ft8cv]

@@olepetzold3264Cant say my record is much better XD I think ive won like 2 out of the past 65 something games

[@TheHorreK2]

​@@vxicepickxvi once had witnessed a Templar blod with chainswords, something like 70 attacks in total... and none if them hit... yeah the dice curse can be real. Be sure to always Bless your Dice as fanaticly as the Ad-Mech their toasters.

[@gamerzpro091]

Bruh you should see me in how badly I roll my dices in general. My friends told me that I am so cursed in rolling. There is this one time I had to roll three dices three times in a row and somehow I rolled all 1's in all of them. Then there is this one time my friend who never played the game before, nearly got a win all because he got lucky in his damages and my faction being daemons so all melee, failed most of their charges. Motherfucker nearly won all because of how terrible my luck is. This is why I am so cursed.

[@SC1ENCEP1E]

Oh a few of my armies are in the thumbnail i wonder what the title is....

[@magicalawnmower4764]

same, custodes went 5-0 with a different style of list and won a GT using Talons instead of shield host. Also orks won with Green Tide as well. I thought we were going to be covering tournament wins or something :(

[@bertschmert]

😢

[@malzafrog5985]

Both mine are in the list, world eaters and dark angels.

[@FormerGovernmentHuman]

@@malzafrog5985 World Eaters, Daemons, Chaos Knights, and I’m just waiting for my final one to show up any day now. Sororitas.

[@randalthor832]

The question is whether they are weak because they are outcompeted or because the people who play them are not good

[@LordCrate-du8zm]

Us Imperial Fist players are absolutely suffering rn. Other codex compliant chapters can sit and cry with us, if they're interested. Looking at you, Salamanders and Iron Hands.

[@FiannaBat]

Can us White Scars join the cry corner? A bunch of wolves stole our detachment

[@m33ddyhv]

Yep, we codex compliant guys have been left in the dust

[@tastefulavenger]

Ultramarines define what it means to be a Raven Guard player all edition long so there's utterly no list where Shrike is the stand out pick when playing Vanguard

[@LordCrate-du8zm]

@@FiannaBat By all means. You've earned your spot among the fan favorite chapters.

[@RockyX123]

Me Tor Garadon collecting dust all edition.

[@demon1103]

Chaos Knights Weaknesses: Do not have army/detachment rules (I know what I said)

[@Bear_of_light26]

Take a battle shock test! I pass. Oh......

[@leethar19]

It's really fun to have to remind experienced players how battleshock works because it’s so weak that they normally skip it entirely.

[@dracothedragonyoutube4376]

As I Tyranid player, my heart goes out to you, we had the same thing for most of tenth until they finally fixed it, hope they do with yours.

[@Bear_of_light26]

@@dracothedragonyoutube4376 personally I wouldn't even really say they fixed it, they just buffed your datasheets and points enough to compensate lol

[@jacket2848]

@@leethar19 good players literally never skip battleshock.

[@stripeybag6977]

Oh look it's all Armies that struggle with Vehicles and Monsters, are Melee and/or rely on Battle shocks. So basically nothing has changed since the start of the edition.

[@Nekromageofapocalyp]

Grey knights were doing quite well not that long ago

[@basteala525]

It's also a lot of elite armies and MEQ armies. 11th ed needs to completely rework the MEQ statline. It's a s s

[@mrcaterpillow9926]

Honestly. They need to give more melee weapons a way to punch up into vehicles and such. It’s one reason I love Tor Garadon. His fist is crazy and is exactly what you want to deal with a tank in melee.

[@FormerGovernmentHuman]

The stupid thing is, you and me just lose more games. The players they’re trying to nerf through nerfing our armies still go 5-0 or switch to a different army and continue to dominate. Meanwhile our favorite units are left in the shitter for the next year and a half, or they just nerf us again. They’ve never once just let a meta settle for longer than a week for people to even build counters to popular lists. Honestly this hobby is not worth playing by GW’s ever shifting rules tailored to 0.01% of the player base.

[@aqz7603]

@@FormerGovernmentHuman wdym "they never let the meta settle" this game updates once every 3 months

[@axel9937]

World eater being one of the weakest while angron is probably the best datasheet is strange

[@aaabbb-zc7sx]

turns out,basing a whole army on the concept of "f*ck it,we dive" is not a good strategy

[@vxicepickxv]

Not really. Having one good single unit doesn't alone make for a good army.

[@LordyT34]

​​@@aaabbb-zc7sx It's not that, so much as three models costing 140 points means you bring 6-7 squads to a 2k game World Eaters can succeed with the "We dive" model, they just need to not have worse cost per model than Custodes without anywhere near their tankiness

[@faithgacha1554]

Angron is kinda overrated.

[@drunkenastarte5243]

Maybe GW shouldn't have a released an "army" that's all of about 3-4 functional datasheets? As the crazy SOB who tries to play without Angry Ron, and even use things like Terminators & Predators instead of just 5-6 units of 8bound, I can safely say that WE's are an unplayable dumpster fire! ...and no, there is NO 2nd wave coming to help either. At the rate GW is slowing down codex releases, we might not even get a codex this edition! At this point, I'm ready to say "feth this BS" and just go back to playing my WE's as codex CSM's w/some allied Daemons and theme them as Daemonkin... trying to play as actual World Eaters using anything outside of "The List" is just an auto-lose at this point.😞

[@DthSprtn]

Orks are still doing well for top tables. Player skill is a major factor.

[@chaosheaven23]

Yeah, I mean if you're playing Orks sweaty, you're doing it wrong, and I think most Ork players share that sentiment.

[@coopersankey8882]

Lies

[@jacksonhoiland2664]

Another is poor internal balance. If you run the perfect list, it is probably fine. But a massive chunk of the codex that people want to use just isn't very good.

[@DthSprtn]

@ this has always been the case. I think that’s because GW has a focus on model creation over gameplay. This makes sense on a business level.

[@DuppyBoii187]

​@@jacksonhoiland2664 Necrons have this issue. You have the godlike op shit or the bad shit and way too little in-between

[@HugoErnesto40.000]

All my armies are in this list...good

[@otisred7848]

The fact that chaos knights are here and imperial knights are not it's clear that the problem with chaos knights is not the fact that the big knights need points drop. We need better rules, this battle shock army and detachment rule is garbage, our rules need a rewrite.

[@DuppyBoii187]

They do need a drop because their abilities are weaker than ik,even ignoring army rules.

[@StephenHenryIV]

I have some ideas for how to improve Custodes. Easiest ones would be improve axes, overhaul bikes (they need to be faster, harder to kill, and have better shooting), dreads (same with dreads, why are they move 6” with short range guns and no FNP), and Trajann (give Trajann a stronger melee profile, give him Lone Op, Fight 1st all the time, and he no longer can join units) and some point adjustments. Nothing big for points but I almost always seem unable to bring enhancements or extra models in units. I’d like Captains to have once per game fight 1st. Or at least one of them have access to it. They need a reason to be taken. Reducing strat cost by 1 is hardly useful at all now with mediocre stratagems in all the detachments. Strategems seem bad-meh across the board. A new detachment would be cool.

[@ajcarter6546]

I think bikes would see huge improvements if they give the bike captain an advance and charge rule. Currently the abilities contradict what you actually want to do with the bikes because they are focused on advancing

[@petacreeper]

Reduce cost in 1 is very powerful people forget you can interrump them by 1 CP (even if you say it a lot) and it actually breaks them.

[@Karth557]

Bikes gun being equal to a lascannon would be golden

[@dustysandwich6560]

Whilst I understand they are weak. Both my friend and my brother play custodes and even tho I usually win as a SM player. I don’t want to struggle any harder🥲

[@emdeo]

Space Marines Not First! LETS GOOOOO

[@malekith13]

I'm sure they made the imperial agent JUST to stop people from complaining that the SM are the weakest army ^^

[@JimH.]

Well, let's be honest: IA isn't a real army. It's just some of column A, some of column B and a smattering of column C combined to make a big bowl of crap. SM are still the worst.

[@KhorgosKhul]

LFG

[@OrkWarbossThrakka]

Isn’t it nice when your high effort nicely painted Snazzwagons and Dragsta’s get shelved because we can’t have Orks getting too Mad Max on the tabletop?

[@drunkenastarte5243]

At least Speed Freaks still exist as a visible detachment. My poor Blood Axes on the other hand... 😞 0 sneakiness Kommandos unplayable Tankbustas beyond unplayable

[@OrkWarbossThrakka]

@@drunkenastarte5243true. I don’t understand why the subs couldn’t just be named and based on the Klans.

[@gerardchartier9016]

I don't think Imperial Agents is intended to be played as a standalone army. There are always people who will insist on doing so, so it's an option, but it's meant to be allies to other Imperial armies.

[@chaosheaven23]

I'd agree, but GW did the greedy thing and made sure no one could access Agents rules on their app without buying a whole other Codex, and I say if you have to pay army prices for rules, then the rules ought to support themselves.

[@Wind-Whistler]

Making a big deal out of their Codex launch and giving them four (4!!!) Battleforce boxes to accompany it kind of sets the expectation that they should be playable…

[@TheyCallMe7s]

God I hate the way that Space Marines are designed, each chapter needs their own unique point costs. Dark Angels are punished because they are allowed to use Ultramarine Doctrines, and because of the Ultramarines, Deathwing Knights received a list crippling nerf, like dude Inner Circle Task Force is even worse now than before, I'm trying to play thematically accurate Dark Angels and they're making it impossible. So now you absolutely have to play Gladius in order to be good with Dark Angels. Stormlance will probably never truly get to shine because Space Wolves exist. Like most recently, ON TOP OF the Deathwing knight nerf, cause of Blood Angels I had to drop jump pack Intercessors from my Dark Angels list which honestly crippled them a lot more than I was expecting and it's so tiring. On top of the unique point costs idea, I feel that some chapters should be locked out of some detachments for the health of the game

[@rickkcir2151]

Dark Angels really just need better detachments. Unforgiven is hands down the worst detachment in the game. Basing it entirely on not only the most useless mechanic in the game, battle shock. But on your units being battle shocked. Inner circle doesn’t do enough. Company of hunters is just a worse stormlance. It’s why I role my eyes when people say the non-compliant chapters shouldn’t be able to use generic SM detachments. Do you want Dark Angels to have a 30% winrate?

[@TheyCallMe7s]

@rickkcir2151 if they were separated, GW would be forced to address Dark Angels the detachments and adjust them accordingly being that a 30% win rate would clearly fall short, obviously (and guess what? It would be easier to do cause there would be less variabilities for unintended side effects too). I roll my eyes when people are short-sighted and forget about cause and effect. You think that they would just be done forever, no detachment adjustments? Just split up the non-compliant chapters from the generic ones and call it a day? Again the worst offender is Space Wolves and Stormlance, imagine being a white scar fan, but you're themed detachment has to be mid or the Space Wolves will take it and just make it too good

[@rickkcir2151]

@@TheyCallMe7s They can buff Dark Angel detachments without having to separate them. Where’s the logic in “oh the army HAS to have a 30% winrate to get a buff” the sheer fact that no one is using the Dark Angel detachments, and they’re still losing. Should be cause enough. You’re literally saying that every Dark Angel player should be forced to have the absolute worst army in the game for like 4 months. So that they can get their detachments fixed.

[@TheyCallMe7s]

@rickkcir2151 yes, I would take 4 months of 30% win rate for long-term health and stability over inconsistency forever. Have you not heard the adage, take two steps back so you can take a leap? How old are you that you think 4 months is a long time and that you think that it's better to remain stagnant and have everything be inconsistent?

[@rickkcir2151]

@@TheyCallMe7s What part of “they can buff the detachments while Dark Angels can still use SM detachments” do you not understand? I want them to buff Dark Angel detachments. But I don’t want to be miserable playing Dark Angels until they do. So why not just buff the detachments while they can still run the other detachments?

[@Grooviebones]

WEaters win rate has been reflected by the tournament rules and a small corebase of really good players repping them for the last while now. The army itself feels bad to play (see an elite melee army that isn't even that elite compared to competition) and is a 10-90 matchup vs. certain armies like Blood Angels.

[@MrHoneuma]

I'm begging you, please just include the detachment breakdowns for these factions. Some look weak when everything is averaged together, but its because of poor performing detachments dragging things down. That is true for Orks, Dark Angels, Black Templars, Space Marines. The others however are genuinely struggling. But Imperial Agents are better at a 41% with Imperial Fleet doing decent now, but World Eaters are actually at a 45%.

[@michaeljdauben]

These initial results seem to support my opinion that GW's nerfs to the BT were stupid and unjustified. They should just roll them totally back, but I suppose it's too much to expect GW to do the intelegent thing. 🙄

[@Hallow_the_fur]

Surprised that Admech is as high as it is Also oof my World eaters and chaos knights

[@WARGORELORD]

Admech got pretty ok after their rule update imho.

[@wesleyw7908]

Admech have amazing rules, great detachments, amazing movement abilities and actually strong datasheets at great price points. Admech is really powerful, they just aren't very accessible to many people. Which is why competitive players with access to pooled collections are doing good with them, whilst solo collectes at local tournaments aren't nearly as powerful.

[@Hallow_the_fur]

@@wesleyw7908 correction Amazing movement. One Detachment that is pretty decent Well the other ones are pretty junk cuz they either don't affect the entire army and have weak stratagems, but really strong enhancements or just kind of useless. Data sheets that look strong on paper but on the table top can sting like a bee but are made out of wet tissue paper (except for like three things)

[@EruCoolGuy]

Stats are largely skewed by the fact everyone plays in the same category in tournaments, and everything is seemingly balanced for tournaments. Which leads to top players switching a lot, and subsequently winrates changing a lot (for a tabletop game). Broadly speaking, besides Agents and Deathwatch, the game is quite fine as is.

[@ReubenWild]

He do you keep getting videos out so quickly I greatly enjoy always having something to watch but have some time to yourself man

[@RawbeardX]

*sad Salamander noises*

[@mikehawkisb1g]

I hope they give you guys a detachment, Firestorm just isn’t burn-y enough.

[@mattyorshin]

The weakest army in the game is Players wallets

[@runeh3022]

As a CSM player my corrupted heart goes out to the World Eaters players on account of ther Berzerkers being pretty sub-par. That was even the case before the surge-move nerf... They should cost something like 85/160 I think.

[@Doc-Hollywood]

As an aspiring Primaris Soul Drinkers player, it is quite a bummer to see how limited the options are for Space Marines without explicit rules/detachments/characters. Why can't there be figures and rules for a Chapter Master or other high officers...

[@william9557]

There is. In crusade :(

[@greg_mca]

​@@william9557 the best game mode bar none

[@dawidkazmierczak7283]

What do you mean by saying "limited"?

[@LordyT34]

World Eaters hitting points hike after points hike seems to be catching up with them it seems

[@countrysideslav4102]

Me when my primarch with 1 usable ability and no shooting costs as much as a titanic knight

[@perrybailey5565]

Grey knights just need some more point drops because when I play my mates I have like 7 units on the table versus his 14 units.

[@secutorprimus]

I've seen a suggestion for balancing out generic space marines that I thought was pretty compelling: if you use any Divergent Chapter units in your list, you are locked to that divergent chapter's own detachment. I.e. Stormlance with thunderwolf cavalry would be banned. It seems punishing, but that seems to be one of the *only* ways you could possibly give generic marines a buff, without supercharging the specialist chapter detachments. "Paint agnostic detachments" are a great aspect of 10th, but not when it comes into contact with the pseudo-separate factions that are Space Wolves, Black Templars, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels. Imposing a limit on Generic Epic Heroes within Divergent Chapters may also be a good idea, though this might just be a nonissue. Even then, it might be rather difficult to balance, but it'll be a start. They'll only really be able to be properly balanced if the divergent chapters are well and fully cut off from the standard SM codex, and can have their points values balanced individually. As it stands, they will *always* just be a better version of SM, aside from the periods of time when Iron Hands rules get ridiculous. (also they should have squatted Grey Knights into Imperial Agents)

[@haunted_bagel]

Auspex, in your AD for Weyland-Yutani, you use a photo from Tabletop Live, but state that its been seen on WarGames Live, which it has, but the photo is a screengrab from Tabletop Live.

[@auspextactics]

Ah thanks for the heads up! Apologies for the error there.

[@CuriousLumenwood]

I can’t wait for the December changes to either do absolutely nothing to help compliant chapters or make them broken beyond belief. And by compliant chapters, I mean Ultramarines, because there is literally nothing GW could do that would entice people to play the other chapters outside of changing how the detachment system works entirely. Making a subfaction only as strong as its characters is a surefire way to ensure that Ultramarines are the only thing ever worth playing. It’s the dumbest fucking move on GW’s part and the reason why I’ll never like 10th edition.

[@lohikaarmeherra-1753]

I´m really just hoping for this edition to end, maybe in next one meltas can be good again.

[@JohnathanCronnelly]

One odd thing I think is always worth mentioning for Black Templars is how the Space Wolves Detachment compares to theirs. At the start of the edition BT detachment was good, while SW was bad. After the balance dataslate that fixed the SW one it became a direct improvement over BT. Now SW get all of the same starting bonuses as BT (minus the psyker one no-one cares about), and can potentially earn the others during the game. Take away both sides unique units (which arguably always was in SW's favor) and its now just "anything you can do I can do better". I main SW and my main opponent in 10th is a BT player, its been a weird arms race for us and I would sincerely like to see BT improved without one of us just feeling like the other does our schtick better.

[@parko246]

Really need to just take this games focus back to cinematic battles. Way more fun and when you buy a codex it's not invalid by the time you get it home

[@joshsmith1179]

I'm sure people are tired of reading this as much as I am tired of writing this, but does GW ever play test this stuff!? How do you release an "army" that is an emasculated version of its component parts (Agents)? No faction rules, bad detachments, no anti-tank. They thought this through, did they.?

[@terricon4]

For ork dread mob, I maintain that the Deff Dread is a great model, if you just go quad kustom mega blastas. Give him a mek to follow behind, and use 2 cp on the main shooting/attack bugg stratagems, select sustained fire, and you have one model that can nearly one shot a land raider in 24 inches at 13.5 wounds against t12 sv2+. Or, if there's what the KMB is specialized against present, like heavy infantry... you can wipe a squad of something big and important right off the board. 12 shots, with 4+ BS and full re-rolls and sustained you get 12 avg hits, then any heavy infantry or light vehicles it can handle them ok without any strats anyway.

[@mikkelkirketerp4884]

Unless it has cover, then it's only 9 wound. And then it pops AoC so now it's down to 4,5dmg on average. And now you've got to take 4 hazardous tests that fail on a 1-2, so on average it's 4 mortals...

[@IAmTheDawn]

They need to stop divergent chapters from taking codex compliant detachments. Otherwise the codex compliant ones will just never be good.

[@kylekeenan3485]

You can run codex compliant chapters are non compliant ones, you just need to swap out the characters. I run my Ultramarines as Dark angels. I just painted the lion and deathwing knights as Ultramarines. Perfectly tournament legal.

[@dracothedragonyoutube4376]

Agreed on this. Maybe then the divergent chapters might get their own detachments fixed too, I mean, there's reasons so many run Space marine detachments instead of their own.

[@william9557]

​@@kylekeenan3485this isn't a question of playability. We all know to do this It's a statement that divergent marines should not access codex detachments. It's ruining codex marines.

[@kristopherstrait4672]

I use unforgiven task force for a defensive da list as I can't be battleshocked off objectives...... But I usually use vanguard spear for some fast shooty angels. Dont take away my sneaky dark angels.

[@kylekeenan3485]

@@william9557 I never see or hear anyone doing it, they have their Imperial fists and are still stuck in this mindset they have to always play as Imperial fists which was always the case until 10th. So "we all know to do this" is a very silly thing to say.

[@sockMonster241]

Grey Knights are heavily match up dependent. If we go into Black Templars or Thousand Sons our chances take a serious dive statistically. Any vehicle or monster heavy list is also a tough game.

[@basteala525]

I am glad for the Ballistus Dreadnought, at least. I love the model and it's nice to see dreadnoughts in a position where you want to field them. Also this list is literally space marine factions and a couple of random outliers or half baked armies. MEQ needs a complete rework in 11th ed.

[@RazorTheHackman]

The reason why GK is doing so poorly right now is that the PN secondaries favor having units that can perform actions at low points costs. That, coupled with lackluster anti-tank, means that other factions heavily outperform them.

[@Norlamon]

It really boggles me how the player count fluctuates, I understand the competitive people on top, but the rest? Why would you be constantly changing factions? By constantly I mean more than twice per edition, which is a lot for me already. Honest question.

[@RockyX123]

Some people have multiple armies and they swap inbetween them. Most people I know in the hobby have at least two.

[@jacket2848]

So I'm supposed to only play 1 or 2 armies? Who made that rule?

[@william9557]

People also do army swaps to stay in the meta and win. Sell an army, buy an army. It's crippling to their wallet, I'm sure

[@NoTimeToPaint-n6t]

I've been in the hobby for 10 years and have 14 40K armies, so I like to use them for a few months, then use a different army for a while, and keep swapping out. I've played games with 5 armies this edition, and once I've got a few more units painted I'll be able to have games with some of the others. I just find it nice to have a different playstyle and a different challenge every so often :)

[@Kampfwaer]

I was so hyped to see an Imperial Agent Codex! Wanted to play them for soooo long! Codex drops...... yeah, cant play them standalone... bummer...

[@plasia]

They really need to expand the range and give some proper rules to Imperial Agents. It really isn't good enough.

[@jamestheboss1883]

They need some sort of anti tank. LITERALLY ANYTHING! I don't see why an inquisitor can't "borrow" a lemun russ or a castigator. Most units having a melta is.... its cool but it's not very useful

[@plasia]

@jamestheboss1883 absolutely

[@RSBurgener]

I have some high hopes for this supposed Space Marines update we're getting next month. I would love for, say, First Company detachment to get a good remix. It's always sucked.

[@eugenebelford9087]

We should also mention the most important Warhammer news of today: #Baldermort IS BACK!!! 😃💪👏

[@rodneygaul2227]

Weyland-Yutani Terrain , this might be a good pick up for in the basement game with friends

[@PooberryPancake]

Custodies… a decent win rate is not equivalent to a fun codex with a wide verity of different play styles /detachments

[@melindaphantom9450]

Game seems pretty well balanced for the most part, like even in the 9 weakest armies really the only real armies having a tough time is Imperial Agents, which is a cool idea absolutely terrible execution it needs big changes to function as a legit army, flavours of Space Marines that aren't Ultramarines and Divergent chapters, and to be honest I don't think Imperial Fists will ever be good for the playstyle they like to push for them, and Grey Knights are expensive but really they just need a bit of anti tank. Otherwise yeah it's just the usual problems of melee armies and battle shock armies and elite focused armies being a bit weaker, and frankly I don't think that'll change much unless they get broken rules or the next edition overhauls the rules, maybe bring back force organisation charts. For now though I just wouldn't worry much about what the tournament players do and just play your favourite models and have some fun with the game.

[@joeyn3590]

With how squishy space marines can be, eradicators and jump intercessors never needed a nerd

[@rafalbronowski8124]

World eaters just need more units rest is fine lack of choices makes them sometimes clunky

[@dancallan7907]

It sure would be nice to have World Eaters full range before 10th is over...

[@drunkenastarte5243]

Considering how 1kSons have been waiting only 8+ YEARS at this point for their "missing 2nd wave", I'm no holding my breath... Maybe by 16th edition GW will remember we exist and give us a Berserker Surgeon out of pity? Honestly at this point, just delete our faction and put us back into the CSM codex, at least then we'll have fun options again!!

[@dancallan7907]

​​@@drunkenastarte5243 Ive always wanted Emperors Children but the way World Eaters have been handled has killed my enthusiasm to the point i probably wont get them. A Primarch and a troop isnt an army * I get TSons besides a dred what esle is there really to add? But where is WE terminators and surgeon? Where is Berserker cav/bikes?

[@drunkenastarte5243]

@@dancallan7907 For 1kSons, we *should be getting stuff like; - Psychic Dread/s - Battle Automata - 'Disc riding' marines - double khopesh wielding Rubrics - 'Technomancer' support HQ - unique mortal Cultist unit (to replace generic Chaos Cultists) Emp's Children are at this point, rumored to be getting; - Fulgrim (duh!) - unique Chaos Lord type HQ - unique Legionnaires unit - Noise Marines - 'elite swordmaster' type bodyguard unit So while still a piss poor release for a "new" faction, it's still more than what WE's got... odds are GW will throw into the CSM units such as generic Termies + most of the vehicles, maybe even bikes if you're *really* lucky? So depending on what options get packed into their unique Legionnaires kit, EC's might be sitting rather pretty in the end?

[@blakemyers643]

World eaters ruleset is actually just 3 datasheets in a trench coat. Space marines the non codex compliant chapters just shouldn't have access to those rules. And should have different unit costs. Otherwise its literally just pick your preffered seasoning and sprinkle that on the marine codex. I really just wanted cavalry for my world eaters and something that can kill high toughness baddies besides angron.

[@ВасилийМорозов-л7х]

To give Imperial Agents an anti-tank option, GW has to make a non-Legends Daemonhost unit and/or a Deathwatch Predator.

[@Asmodai1234]

Plastic Avenger Strike Fighter - let my Agents tear up enemy armour with a sci-fi'd A10.

[@David-b3v2d]

Whenever i c a boats set up it makes me nostalgic fir ore 8th ed terrain rules.the boards r so unimaginative like fighting in a council estate

[@SeaBroccoli]

Only thing I have struggled against with Custodes is against fast moving units with decent hitting, so Aeldari and Battlesuit heavy Tau really, otherwise, I am enjoying them a lot, especially when 1 Warden can bring down a Tau Commander if rolled well.

[@fixu8204]

I hope by the time I finish my first army of salamanders the Meta will shift Maybe vulkan will be back? Perhaps?

[@svenmeling6053]

Regarding the sponsorship part: I find it odd that the Pariah Nexus small open ruins have a pillar stuck to them. Isn't that just a straight out nerf to tanks and other large vehicles? Is it the general consensus that these pillars are needed?

[@effindave6909]

Not sure why nobody says anything about Mekguns. Those things have been the bane of my existence. Bubble CHucka's get a kind of one size fits all profile and the other 2 have insane damage output potential when paired with a big mek. All for 50 points a model.

[@buckleygs23]

I play with de Orks and they excel at dying fast, missing all their range, but hiding objectives, top tier.

[@dorogundam]

I remember that one meme of imperial agents being a 2000pt army of kill team and gets rest by a tank

[@Klierowski]

It's so discouraging and holding me from a hobby that the codex marines are the weakest faction from the beginning of the 10th edition, and GW didn't do shit about it, except nerfs- while top armies only trade their places but all of them are powerful and always above mid tier.

[@lohikaarmeherra-1753]

Every balance cycle marines are a little worse.

[@Adamantos-Elean]

This is the most boring edition of 40k I have ever played. been here since 3rd btw.

[@mattyorshin]

All the objective control thing is what bores me

[@RockyX123]

@@mattyorshin But we had objective markers since at least 5th (I haven't played before then so I can't comment on that).

[@mattyorshin]

@RockyX123 I stopped playing when 5th started just got back in to the game

[@_Morph1ne_]

In your opinion, what’s the biggest downgrade from earlier editions? Or what do you want to see back? Asking because I’ve only been playing tabletop for a year and a half-ish

[@drunkenastarte5243]

@@_Morph1ne_ GW gutted literally ALL the charm & uniqueness out of the game for one thing... Tournament try-hards can whine & bitch all they want about "rules bloat" and "imbalance". But at least for the other 99% of us filthy pleebs who don't give a rat's fart about 'E-sport 40k', we had things like; - Chapter + Legion Tactics/Klans Kultures/Dynasties/Regimental Doctrines, etc... even so far as the likes of Death Guard & Grey Knights instead having different 'Plague Company/Brotherhood' rules to add flavour - actual wargear options for HQ's, including relic wargear vs. the crappy 4-6 token 'bonuses' - an actual Psychic Phase - wargear/unit upgrades costing pts vs. everything being "free". Now there's 0 reason to never choose only the 'best' option. At least before you could save a few pts here and there & niche options like Flamers/Missile launchers/etc... had some relevance. - optional squad sizes. I *HATE* this fixed squad size BS with the fury of 1000 burning suns!!! Dumbest change in the entire edition, next to the removal of the Psychic Phase! List building is just beyond dull and boring now... The game has just sacrificed it's soul & charm overall, because of the extremely loud & whiny cries of a very tiny minority.

[@Russlem]

Orks are really rough right now due to their lack off access to damage 3 weapons in melee. Everything is damage 2. So, if you get paired up against Astra Militarum, it's just a super hard counter. Bullgryns reduce all that D2 to D1 and the T5 on Ork boys is negated by basic troops scoring lethals against them with lasguns. On top of that, Hellhounds are a nightmare on overwatch. It wouldn't surprise me if the win rates on Ork is directly proportional to the representation of Astra Militarum.

[@XealotCoils]

I mean there aren't many sources for 3 damage weapons tbh. I can't think of any standard unit having 3 damage weapons bare like characters with enhancements or whatnot.

[@Russlem]

@@XealotCoils Hard disagree. I'll give four examples. Astra Militarum has: demolisher cannon, battle cannon, storm eagle rockets, and melta galore. T'au have: Plasma rifles, fusion blaster, ion accelerator, cyclic ion raker. Space Marines have: melta rifles, centurion missile launchers, plasma exterminators, macro plasma incinerator. Adepta Sororitas have pretty much everything in their list is either high volume/high str or D:3 floor. Tyrannids are pretty much D:3 floor on everything including exocrines, hive tyrant, hive guard, maleceptor, norn emissary, really the list goes on. I'm only listing faction weapons that are dedicated anti-elite weapons, not even necessarily dedicated anti-tank like lascannons, etc.

[@XealotCoils]

@@Russlem well I'll be damned. EDIT: Ah that's right I was thinking in terms of melee damage since I just think of Orks as a melee army. But point taken.

[@harrisonsaynor8568]

Why are you saying templars are at 46%? Currently says 39% on stat check

[@nkoehler337]

God that BT nerf was so lame. I could understand the blob crusaders points increase but hellbrecht and grimaldus too? I can only hope that GW is planning more core codex changes that will give us some better options.

[@harrisonsaynor8568]

@nkoehler337 ye the righteous crusaders detachments shite, no advance and charge, no guarantees fight on death, and then we have stratagems that happen in the command phase when we are primarily a transport based army lol so they don't work

[@thefloatingcontinent9897]

Sure you might win more than I do but do you get to eat worlds? I don’t think so

[@mrmuffinrellik7045]

Give me freedom, Give me Fire, give me good Space Marines and I’ll retire

[@bungus_chungus1401]

So long as they don’t destroy the space wolf detachment before I get a few more games in with it, I’ll be sanguine.

[@Xhumed]

Don't you mean lupine?

[@Smucklz]

Space marines stay struggling

[@theoguesdon8167]

not having genestealer cult is very surprising

[@BlastBinary]

Here is a comment to check back on as I am at 1200 of 2k points of ultramarines based on "rule of cool". Lets check back in December and see if I ended up lucking into a meta army somehow.

[@holdenchambers3986]

Just gonna throw it out there, that drukhari 49% winrate has problems once you look closer. The rate was falling before the update with realspace raiders starting to beat skysplinter, but the update gave skysplinter lists a massive 100+ point increase to the average list. There's also the rise of factions like guard, gk, and nids that hurt it. Skysplinter had a 37% win rate this weekend with 45% overall the last 3 weeks. Realspace raiders is holding 60% but only has a few dedicated specialists and no event wins besides skari at Toronto. Drukhari for a large chunk of players is dead in the water right now. GW needs to revert a lot of the changes we got and touch on the units used more in rsr. Take away points on incubi and court, then tack a small increase of maybe 5 onto grotesques and talos. I'd even argue just repeal the nerf to incubi and drazhar for a start. Possibly knock 5 off nightmare shroud too. Drukhari is going to be one of the last codexes also, so if December is making datasheet changes Drukhari should be top of the list to actually fix their issues.

[@coreywhalen1615]

Custodes could do better but not many players want to drop $160 for one tank. Plastic or STFU GW.

[@MildTabascofries]

Oh boy, the thumbnail is literally all 5 armies I own.

[@jeremiegartner464]

Funny how some of these armies were at the top and droped because top players switched armies. Like a WE player switching to genestealer. If enough top players do this it affects rates

[@jameszeropr]

Probably sad that I haven't even played Pariah Nexus yet. Been playing escalation league instead.

[@lexluthor2988]

Still sticking to the blue boys 😢

[@Questioningbasics]

All of my armies are here =D

[@RedCometNurse]

I feel like Ultramarines need to be separated out from Codex Space Marines. Absent one or two unique units, they are no different from Codex Noncompliant Chapters.

[@alexanderbernau8023]

as a custode player ill take a low win rate if they made my army even the slightest bit fun :/

[@peterbaines1763]

Exactly the strength actually is acceptable but they are just so boringing to play I've given up. I would rather go back to index detachment

[@alexanderbernau8023]

@peterbaines1763 i don't know of a single person that wouldn't lol

[@Mettlef]

Why are they nerfing Chaos armies always to the ground? I don't get it, an HQ with 4 wounds and no invuln is more expensive in points than a space marine captain with 4++ invuln and 0CP stratagem. I don't get it...

[@xGhost32x]

Any info yet on the Death Guard?

[@drunkenastarte5243]

If the rumors about Codex Daemons getting squatted & all the daemonic units being rolled into their respective God Legion codices is true, we might very likely not be getting anything beyond the Emp's Children this edition... Would be the 'cleanest' option to wait until EC's release to start the whole process, but by the time they're likely to drop, (my gut feeling is Aug/Sept next year), we'll be down to only about 5-6 months or so before 11th rolls out. That'd be a super tight window, considering we still have; a) BIG releases for Guard, Eldar & SW's that will likely each eat up 2 months worth of releases each due to GW's current pattern of 'launch box -> wait 5-6 weeks -> full release'. b) Imperial & Chaos Knights + Grey Knights + Votann + Dark Eldar + Templars still to drop, and Votann REALLY need their 2nd wave as well... Just doesn't seem to be room left over these next 18 months or so before 11th drops, unless GW stop with the 'launch box -> wait a month' BS for their releases?

[@meem093]

You could have just put "whichever army you're currently using and building" and it would be accurate 😢

[@horuslupercal2385]

With the constant tinkering and balance attempts, I've given up on caring about strong vs. weak. As long as my armies are FUN TO PLAY, I'm happy 👌👌👌

[@lohikaarmeherra-1753]

It´s kinda hard when your opponents have better stuff than you and use it to win.

[@BurnByMoonlight]

Dark Angels: as soon as we get good, everyone starts bitching until GW nerfs us.

[@lohikaarmeherra-1753]

It´s a fucking joke how good azrael is for riddiculously low cost. Slap an enhancement on a marine captain and they cost bout the same - while other is completely bonkers.

[@jordanvangesen2080]

Grey knight player here definitely anti-vehicle is KILLING us

[@joeblogs8049]

I'd like to thank the Imperial agents for their noble sacrifice. It is a bit embarrassing for the flagship faction to be the weakest in the fame. Fortuitously along came the agents who, threw so hard as to not even have an army rule, to save the day. Bravo noble inquisitors.

[@concrescience3642]

if they are saying no to horde style space marine armies i better watch out for my 60 firstborn tacticals :'D

[@anonamarth4291]

You're saying CSM as a whole has a 49% win rate, but it's not like that isn't minimum 90% Renegade Raiders being played.

[@Powaup]

I just hate the way centurions look but as an UM they seem to be the key especially since the last changes

[@niallskinner7800]

I'm the opposite. I love my Centurions, and I'm dreading them getting nerfed into oblivion in December solely because they're pretty good in one specific combo.

[@Powaup]

@ it’s happening for sure. First it was the aggressors, then apothecary biologis, Eradicators, centurions next

[@himedo1512]

Where do you get these numbers?

[@AWPtical800]

Weyland-Yutani wasn't a trademarked name already?! lmao

[@TheGraham27]

I think I have an uphill battle with 3 of my 4 armies in this list lol.

[@ThePearlOgre]

I like seeing my two armies in the thumbnail of a weakest armies video😂

[@TsarLuna]

Reads the title, please don’t see my army in the thumbnail… aaaaand there they are

[@Deathgaming112]

My strongest army is tyranids 3 haruspex and a fight first hive tyrant. Just gotta make sure if anything is going to get shot it's the haruspex lol don't need my exocrene dying on me. And if they target the exocrene then the haruspex gets in

[@FirstKeeperOfSecrets]

Mono Slaanesh Daemons, we arent weak, we love the pain ;-)

[@codyott1982]

All these people thinking that tournament win rates actually has an effect on their play at anytime other than when a balance pass is done. You aren't top meta bro! Lol. Most people only get two wins at most tournaments with 5 games..... So if your army mattered, they'd also be looking towards the middle/worst most likely.

[@mercier390]

GW: so you see we have this chapter that’s whole deal is it has more people cause they crusade Players: *builds a horde of space marines* GW: *shocked pikachu meme*

[@zap54312]

Really they should just roll Agents and Knights into one faction

[@asiburger]

Hold on. Aren't there like.. 26 factions in total, and that's when you're very generous 😅

[@Rich-in6ds]

Although they’re on this list, I absolutely despise World Eaters. They are so toxic to play against! You either build your list around move-blocking them and maximum shooting power if you lose. If you try to bring any melee units, you lose. Just not fun to face, at all.

[@The_Penguin_8964]

Imperial Agents : 2000 points of KT🤭

[@espurr4043]

Weyland Yutani sponsor lmao 💀