Topher Grace Shares His Real Opinion of Tom Hardy’s Venom

[@ryanmussell739]

3:26 is when the Venom talk starts.

[@EthenBibslo]

Appreciate it

[@ahmedqurayshi2714]

'Bless you' - aunt may

[@TheSmileyOne]

Thank you bro!

[@Monkeyman3000]

you the real g

[@andrewbrooks9370]

Thx

[@Skankhunt42....]

Of course they know each other, Seth's brother was the "replacement Eric Forman" in the last season of That 70's Show haha

[@shawnuel]

Yup. Topher gave the show life and Josh Meyers was the show's kryptonite.

[@Skankhunt42....]

@@shawnuel I didn’t mind him, he was just meh. Guy was given a near impossible job to be fair. It’s just funny for me cos I knew Seth’s far less famous brother before I knew him 😂 They’ve got such a crazy resemblance too, the grin they have is almost identical 😂 one of those situations where I didn’t need Wiki to know they were related when I first discovered Seth 😂 actually thought he WAS the dude from that 70s show for a bit

[@shawnuel]

@@Skankhunt42.... Yeah, that’s fair. I found him not good at all…a bad fit. But I liked him in some other things.

[@bfg3890]

Why would they know each other ? Topper was there for the last ep. That’s it and how many of your siblings colleagues do you know?

[@Skankhunt42....]

@@bfg3890 Jesus man… take a chill pill already.

[@cookiesncream789]

He seems like such a nice and humble guy. I actually enjoyed his version of Venom! I wish they had made that Home Economics ad with Venom 2. That would have been really funny 😄.

[@hassanmasood186]

I wish Topher Grace's Venom spoke more just like Tom Hardy's Venom. His version was just a bunch of shrieking.

[@TheCrazyGuy2002]

I just think he wasn't fit for the role in my opinion. Thought it was weird that his version of venom didn't speak at all. I don't think his acting was good at all for Eddie Brock.

[@last7509]

spiderman 3 doesnt even exist to me. i dont know what sam got to smoking when he made that one.

[@soseikiharagatatsu7859]

I kinda can't take him seriously because of the memes and yeah he's a really good guy and funny

[@WYYYE]

@@last7509 wasnt his fault it came out like it did

[@elijahcee4676]

I love Topher, he has such a good sense of humor about the whole venom thing lol. And he did a great job playing it the way they wanted!

[@paolothorpe1461]

Topher Grace is actually a pretty good venom

[@calebb2002]

He was terrible as venom

[@mottom2657]

@@calebb2002 That's because Sam Raimi didn't understand Venom as a character.

[@Simpsons01111]

@@mottom2657yeah Sam Raimi intended for John Malkovich as Vulture for Spider-Man 3 until Avi Arad pressured him to have Venom instead.

[@tobyfranklin]

Seems like a really sweet guy! Great, funny actor; would love to see him in other comic book roles. His Venom wasn't bad by any means (just strangely cast) and redemptions are always welcome!

[@mrrd4444]

His Venom was never meant to be there and it showed (the studio forced him in), it really wasn't an issue with him, and I do wanna see him in more stuff!

[@villanessa]

The script was bad not him

[@tl4009]

Check out him as David Duke! Strong performance.

[@verenas3536]

I really liked him

[@dragonbatspidey0801]

Well, he actually still has a chance of being considered a great Venom. The only reason his performance got mixed reviews in Spider-Man 3 is because just like Jared Leto as Joker from Suicide Squad, some very major scenes were cut out that would've made Topher's performance as Venom amazing. We need to Sony Pictures to #ReleaseTheRaimiCut for Spider-Man 3 and give us the real version of Venom they've been hiding for more than 15 years

[@thisisfyne]

Love this guy! To this day, Eric Foreman might just be my favourite TV character of all time. Such great comedic timing.

[@saml302]

I still use "bitch-a-roony-doony" to this day

[@rickyusa1000]

Red Foreman is probably the most realistic character ever. I'm the same age as the gang in Foreman's basement and was raised by Red Foreman with hair!

[@COMPFUNK2]

Actually, it’s Eric Forman. Eric _Foreman_ was Omar Epps’ character on House.

[@thisisfyne]

@@COMPFUNK2 Right! Forman then

[@soumyadham]

He looks young and old at the same time.

[@jancer3]

That was my same impression.

[@cjss-yg2lz]

Haha I have felt like this forever I remember saying this when SP3 came out. 10 yes from now he will probably somehow look younger 😂 he got them genes

[@burnettdown512]

Like John Mulaney

[@WiIIiamOfficial]

That's because he's middle aged.

[@hayderneamah1323]

All of the 70s shows look like that weird 🤔old and young depending on the angle of camera.

[@maryrosekent8223]

This is so funny. It’s great when Seth’s guest is someone he’s friends with because it’s like we’re all just hanging around having beers (or what have you) while our two funniest friends get into a well-loved routine that we all never tire of.

[@anonymouslyunknown4811]

I love Topher he's such a genuinely great guy

[@Nayops24]

3:37 ^ Topher killed it as Venom, he’s part of our childhood❕🕸️

[@stonedmelodic7918]

Dude feels like a distant cousin. Such a humble dude.

[@mickeymouse7726]

I'd love to see him come back as his venom character in another future Spider-Man multiverse film

[@rexx8887]

Yeah but I'm not sure if he wants to cause many people hated him but I would still like him to comeback

[@Wheresrichh]

@@rexx8887 frr but I loved him

[@Luna-bj3hb]

@@rexx8887 that’s what happened to Andrew but now look at him now they love him

[@rexx8887]

@@Luna-bj3hb your right

[@Luna-bj3hb]

@@rexx8887 yea I heard he wanted to come back in NWH and be apart of the multiverse sinister six but Sony ghost him

[@JonnyDIY]

Glad to see Topher getting some work. And I liked him as Venom, those were the days before actors were expected to be bodybuilders for Super Hero roles 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@AnthonyCabling1123]

Eddie Brock is actually ripped in the comics tho lol

[@MMallon425]

No I think everyone expected for Venom to be really big, even back then

[@kylev24]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/nXmyiaShfsecbck This is what people were expecting.

[@LegendaryManSlayer93]

Well Eddie Brock is a bodybuilder in the comics and cartoons. So Topher’s version didn’t make sense at all. The only people who like him as venom aren’t a fan of the character.

[@Starsdealer]

@@LegendaryManSlayer93 fax

[@rinraiden]

For SM3 they were going for Venom being basically "Evil Spider-Man", which is why they wanted an actor with a similar build as Tobey Maguire. I could see this take working but, unfortunately, SM3 was a victim of too many things going on and not enough time to develop them.

[@Rippersauc3]

He has always been that way tho lol. That was the point of venom at first

[@CybersteelEx]

No way home...

[@siphonophores]

It's a cool concept but it's a story that should be a main focus of the film but it ended up squeezing in with multiple arcs in the plot (MJ and Peter's deteriorating relationship, Harry becoming Goblin, Sandman being Ben's killer, Peter and Eddie's rivalry, etc.) I would love if the movie ended up just being Peter discovering the symbiote and the suit changing him into a horrible person, hurting harry and MJ and starting a rivalry with his new colleague Eddie Brock. It leads to Harry becoming the Goblin and fighting Peter, Pete beats him to a pulp and Pete realizing what he has done, goes on to get rid of the suit and the movie ends with Eddie bonding with the symbiote. Basically, a movie about Spider-Man's time with the black suit and the next movie will be him facing Venom.

[@ronb5714]

If they’d done Spider-Man 3 & 4 as a pair, and Venom had been built up to in #3 before emerging as an enemy in #4, it could work. Instead it was a hot mess.

[@postironichno_innit]

​ Yes way home....

[@Jaytheradical]

I absolutely bought his Eddie Brock, so much so that Tom Hardy's took a while to grow on me. I'd say it wasn't really until Venom 2 that Hardy's Venom really worked for me, and now I love it.

[@notme6753]

Didn't really like Venom 2 tho 😐

[@Jaytheradical]

@@notme6753 it's alright, it's a Halloween party movie

[@thisbubblygoodness7611]

i dunno, i haven't seen Venom 2 but i can already tell its made for 9 year olds, i saw one scene where Venom's in a club and that's when i knew the Venom movies weren't really worth 'taking seriously' so why watch them at all? but thats just me

[@last7509]

you must not have read the comics. casting him as venom was a slap in the comic fans faces.

[@yoshi9538]

@@Jaytheradical black girl acted regular and still ruined the fuckin movie for me, she had screamtime lmao

[@DOSkywalkR]

"was doing a movie with Dennis Quaid" - In Good Company, such a great movie with him, Quaid and a young ScarJo. Smart and funny with heart that flick, have it on blu-ray and watched it many times over the years.

[@shawnuel]

Yes! A fairly under-recognized comedy that also featured an early role from Ty Burrell. In Good Company was a lot stronger than the conventional rom-com of the time.

[@FakeAccount-gc6di]

ScarJo wasn't "young". Already divorced from Ryan Reynolds. Check out Ghost Word.

[@carlrosenzweig1867]

I love that movie.

[@DOSkywalkR]

@@FakeAccount-gc6di 🙄

[@shawnuel]

@@FakeAccount-gc6di In Good Company - 2004 Reynolds/ScarJo wedding - 2008 Divorce - 2011. And she was 20 when she did In Good Company, which is young whether or not someone has been divorced by that age.

[@miku5840]

He's got this genuine look of a man that got some dirt put in his eyes.

[@sdennen]

Eric Forman forever! 😄 Every week, I watch Home Economics and decide this is what Eric would be like as an adult lol.

[@spkymessage7346]

I don’t get why his Venom gets so much hate. He killed it as Venom & Eddie Brock, even if it was a quick setup for him. He still did good for me & I still love Spider-Man 3.

[@batman369able]

Toper Grace wasn't the problem. His Eddie Brock/Venom was just not well written.

[@Rippersauc3]

The basic fact that he's not built like Eddie from the comics and cartoons and isnt even an active person that goes to a gym. He also doesn't have a broody and manly voice he's just a nerdy sounding guy. Eddie has always been a bulky and tall dude with attitude. Topher graces Eddie had attitude but it was more passive aggressive than actually being a tough guy.

[@Rippersauc3]

He honestly would've been wayyyy better as carnage and Cletus Kassidy than Eddie Brock. He's more fit for that role. Cletus has a lean build like him and he probably has enough range to act like a sadistic psycho person.

[@bossmine3997]

@@Rippersauc3 such an unoriginal argument

[@WiredLain_]

@@bossmine3997 fr lol

[@bryano2389]

I’ve always felt that if these 2 actors played each other’s Vemon would’ve just made more sense. Topher grace in the new horrible Sony venom movies and Tom hardy as eddy Brock in Spider-Man 3 would’ve just been the best version of Vemon

[@mercyxmutual]

I love Home Economics! A super fun show

[@iamodmk]

He’s very nice, I was only a daily on a set with Topher but he had a chill vibe. I joked to my coworker who I knew my the indigenous film community about saying “your my favorite venom” but the joke was this was weeks before Venom (1) came out but obviously I didn’t wanna get fired for being annoying (intentionally) but yeah I do love the guy.

[@BigSchoolRiley]

these two legit seem like good buddies. like it seems like they chill. often

[@junior6677]

Topher Grace was great in Sam Rami Spider-Man 3 2007 as Eddie Brock Venom Super Underrated Comic book film of all time

[@Kimm134Saya]

Was expecting to see him in NWH.

[@OhCrap247]

Yes so was I. I mean Tobey and Andrew were sort of foregone conclusion to make an appearance but this guy could have been a genuine surprise that no one would expect.

[@Da1Dez]

Would have made more sense to have him instead of the Hardy Venom, since he's knows Spidey's identity.

[@Drifter1989]

@@Da1Dez Tom Hardy’s Eddie Brock doesn’t know Spider-Man but his Venom does since symbiotes have a hive mind throughout the multiverse.

[@Da1Dez]

@@Drifter1989 I find concept that so ill-conceived if that's the case.

[@Drifter1989]

@@Da1Dez Not really since it’s a thing from the comic books and it was stated in Venom: Let There be Carnage.

[@jeremello]

I wonder what would have happened had Spider-man 3 been more successful. He's surprisingly charasmatic.

[@HOTD108_]

Commerically Spider-Man 3 was very successful.

[@steveconn]

Take out Spider-Rourke and it might have worked.

[@B3000-i4d]

Spider-Man 3 was the highest grossing spidey film until Far From Home and actually got plenty of good reviews, naturally it got some not so good reviews but it was overall a pretty huge success. Personally I love the movie

[@dericjames2018]

@@B3000-i4d it got mixed reviews with critics and negative on audience.

[@hassanmasood186]

Venom would've said more words rather than only speaking when the symbiote comes off his face

[@MichaelP833]

far prefer Topher's Eddie Brock to any other live action version. and his Venom as well! feels to me that people were expecting a Flash Thompson type of Venom, which that wasnt even meant to be.

[@Ginric99]

The issue was that he was in a bad Spider-Man movie and had to share story time with 2 other main villains, and black suit Spider-Man. They should have had a venom only Spider-Man movie.

[@sgtroach1510]

@@Ginric99 don’t forget raimi didn’t even want venom in the movie

[@hrvbox]

home economics is so freaking good and it needs more recognition

[@carrie4148]

I love Topher Grace. I really enjoy every role that he's in, especially his comedic roles because he has such great physicality. Yet he was totally hot in the Black Mirror episode entitled 'Smithereens'. ❤️❤️❤️

[@memento81]

and he was so great in Bates Motel

[@cleverusername9369]

If you close your eyes and listen, Topher Grace and Jake Gyllenhaal have the exact same voice.

[@emyf9197]

Omg he does!

[@thelolbuster]

HOLD ON YOU LOWKEY RIGHT 😭😭😭

[@popeye697]

And Jake nearly replaced Tobey in Spider-man 2

[@Drifter1989]

Would’ve been weird if Jake did actually replace Tobey as Spider-Man and you just hear the same voice from Jake and Topher in Spider-Man 3

[@mysticjen1860]

In season 3 of Home enconomics he sees Spider Man en Disney World hahahaha

[@luckyDancer100]

Considering Tobey just came back (and so did a bunch of others), they should’ve mentioned him missing an opportunity to return as Venom 😅

[@ThiccDaddy326]

I mean they did mention him

[@kenlangston3451]

In the thumbnail Topher Grace looked like a young Willem Defoe. Lol

[@joshdemarco9270]

In a pee-wee herman suit...

[@dragonbatspidey0801]

I will always love Topher Grace, even if he didn't get to show his full performance as Venom. Hopefully, Sony Pictures will someday #ReleaseTheRaimiCut for Spider-Man 3 and show the real version of Topher Grace as Venom that's been tucked away for more than 15 years. The 2006 San Diego Comic Con trailer gave us a different Venom design and voice that felt more comic accurate

[@Rentfree404]

Gonna look into it

[@dragonbatspidey0801]

@@Rentfree404 Here's a clip from the SDCC 2006 trailer. The VFX at the beginning were unfinished at the time, but the final shot was already completed. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oaHHkKN6eZ2kbtE

[@last7509]

they should never have cast a scrawny squirrely dude as eddie brock. honestly even tom hardy is too small to play eddie brock. or bane for that matter. but hes so good at his job we accept anything he does.

[@Rentfree404]

@@last7509 he sucks

[@Da1Dez]

He could have been the sixth member for the sinister six in No Way Home!

[@hrvbox]

he's so funny and charming i love this dude

[@Dyferent]

Home economics is such a good show. 😊

[@NickTheStallion]

I still think he's the best live action Eddie Brock/Venom, he may not have that Tough Guy look, but, he responds in acting.

[@Siehna]

Damn, I was not aware of how likeable he is. I might have to watch more interviews of him.

[@MarioFarts23]

this literally just feels like 2 good friends catching up

[@tigrecito48]

Hey, I just realised Topher Grace is a time Traveller... I just saw him on this Rolling Stones video at 13 minutes 12 seconds dancing on stage: The Rolling Stones at T.A.M.I. Show 29th of October 1964 (he looks young, just like he did on That 70's Show)

[@PitchforkStudios]

Nice to see you Forman.

[@carriebizz]

So funny how Seth's brother played Randy on that 70s show after he left

[@Pro24zach]

that “little guy” was, and is my favorite part in Predators And that movie has Walton Goggins!

[@No-e_MU1]

some of my favorite TV show quotes are from Eric Forman, love this guy lol

[@brianvaira486]

I find it funny that Seth's brother was Eric's replacement in season 8 of That 70's Show.

[@rocharoch]

His version of venom was good man!

[@seancollins1958]

I am a Packers fan because of your father. Great to see you again brings back memories of the greatest American comedy. Ever. I wear a Packers hat someone left in my bar. Seán

[@קירילסגדין]

Loved him in delirium!

[@superpikachusam1839]

I still actually love Topher Graces Venom, fight me

[@irvinreevesinbaraj6134]

I got your back

[@Silver_S847]

@@irvinreevesinbaraj6134 Yeah, I’m with you. I still like Topher Grace’s Venom. He may not be perfect, but he is better than that annoying goofy Venom played by Tom Hardy. Tom Hardy’s Venom is a joke. I dislike him because he lacks being scary or terrifying which is a very important part of his character and overall is too goofy which is very annoying. Ugh!

[@irvinreevesinbaraj6134]

​@@Silver_S847you're spitting facts bro!!!

[@Silver_S847]

@@irvinreevesinbaraj6134 Thanks, man.

[@irvinreevesinbaraj6134]

​@@Silver_S847🤝

[@mroddydawg]

Never wound what you can’t kill” that quote from him stuck hahaha

[@The_RedVIII]

Uhm, he didn't really say what his real thoughts on Hardy's Venom are? He just said it would have made a fun commercial if he played himself complaining about Hardy being Venom. Or did I miss something??

[@orphanedhanyou]

It's heavily implied that all the "insults" of Tom and his version of Venom mean obviously he thinks it was great

[@smoothyuk]

Were you absent in 2013 when KZbin video titles started having flimsy ties to anything actually going on in the video at best? Clicking something on the internet these days is like flipping on the TV and handing the remote to your dog to chew on.

[@PatternLand]

Damn you really took that title seriously lol

[@lmaoqasim]

though Spider-Man 3 was not the best of movies, I still liked Tophers performance in that movie.

[@tylerdunnan5059]

I can picture that Tom Hardy sketch. Now I wish it was real.

[@JulianDuke14]

Damn he got old since Spider-Man 3 even if it s been 13 or 14 years still Willem Dafoe looks like he hardly aged and same with Alfred Molina.

[@wiets90]

7:10 Fun fact: Jimmy (his co-star) once made a sketch about BirkenSocks on his KZbin channel. It was hilarious.

[@jaloncola8805]

I like Topher Grace’s venom. I like his design and costume concept making it look like an evil Spider-Man which venom is of course.

[@justadad6677]

Almost the best part is how he made Mark Cuban look. It's always hard to get a read on billionaires, many are sociopaths and avoid the public. While Mark Cuban seem like one that actually care, enough at least to make efforts on moral decisions and economics. So when you have a third person speak well of them, it matters.

[@resikin]

Topher Grace is the definitive cinematic actor of Eddie Brock/Venom, his performance was spectacular for what it was!

[@dragonbatspidey0801]

And it could still be even better if Sony Pictures decides to #ReleaseTheRaimiCut for Spider-Man 3

[@nanashi1173]

@@dragonbatspidey0801 no

[@maxpops8427]

I wouldnt say definitive. Tom Hardy just fits alot better

[@resikin]

@@maxpops8427 Nah, Hardy is too scrawny for the role. He sounds like he’s drunk the whole time. He has none of the douchiness or hatred necessary for Eddie Brock

[@maxpops8427]

@@resikin thts because it doesn’t have Spiderman. Your saying Tom hardys venom is scrawny? Tophers venom is short and they barely show his Venom face. Tophers an OK Eddie brock but Tom is VENOM.

[@spideytube1818]

They should make a VenomVerse Movie!!

[@LtdResources]

The fake laughing was amazing in this

[@magicknight13]

He seems like such a cool nice guy!!

[@TuPapiRicoSuave]

6:39 I’d die to see Foreman go at Kelso like that.

[@Anonymosuu]

2:40 or around that time for when Seth mentions Topher's appearance as Venom.

[@vandal280]

Hysterical interview

[@micahclawrence]

Man i grew up with this guy. still cool as helll

[@steveconn]

Looking forward to his take on Buddy Holly in his final concert in Clearlake. His Dennis Quaid movie was cute (lol Dennis Quaid's heyday yeah before he started playing stalker to a black yuppie couple in that movie a few years ago).

[@Toonthegoob-hd6jq]

Topher grace should come back if venom 3 will use the multiverse

[@jackie1065]

Eric's watching Shark Tank while Kelso seed funded Uber. Did not have that on my life bingo card. lol

[@miguellozano308]

Seth’s voice and vibe just still does not cut it for me for late night host

[@Pastamist]

I actually think it’d be pretty cool to see him with Tom in the NWH post-credits scene. Sorta like a “you have one too? Wait, yours TALKS to you?”

[@romulus86]

He should do Lego Venom!!

[@Rockoblocko]

Not a bad idea

[@cjlewis79]

Milwaukee talkies. Lol that’s awesome.

[@ryandeffley7652]

I think "Take Me Home Tonight" is one of TG's best movies. It's funny, has a great soundtrack, and is a solid underdog tale. I think it speaks to a lot of people who struggle to find their purpose initially. But ultimately live life on their own terms and do what's right for them.

[@dallysept]

Dude I fucking love that movie, "you want some swayze action bitches" 😂😂

[@geoffreyfeinberg9792]

He's a good actor. I thought he did a good job playing Venom. Hope he appears in more movies. Like working with Steven Spielberg, Christopher Nolan, Martin Scorsese. Maybe reunite with some of That 70s show characters. Especially Ashton Kutcher. These 2 could use some awards. That 90s show is not a good idea. Especially what's going on with Danny Masterson.

[@ethieno869]

He did worked with Nolan. He did a small role in Interstellar 🙂 agree, he's a great actor

[@shawnuel]

I agree that Topher is a good actor. So, why handicap a project he is in by pairing him with Kutcher? As an actor, Kutcher is a great philanthropist and entrepreneur.

[@Hannah-ls7xb]

He is so handsome my goodness!!

[@trejones3075]

This my guy right here😎

[@janeabre414]

I love Topher Grace lol

[@michaelbrennan35]

The funny part is from the 70s show he was a rebel, and then he became the republic when he became a villain 😝

[@NewMessage]

We all said "Oh.. um... Hm.." when we heard you were playing Venom too.

[@hulkslayer626]

Can't remember the name of the movie, but the one he did with Dennis Quaid was good!

[@usernameunknown69]

I hear and see a lot of Eric Forman in his demeanor, he must be filming for the 70s show spin-off

[@jennifercockrill6356]

You can almost believe they are just a couple of goofy pals having a chat

[@kingsman8475]

I don't fake laugh with my close friends. Take a 2nd look. Lol

[@mothealien]

there is a band in the town I live in that is called the Milwaukee Talkies

[@spideytube1818]

damn he actual is a good venom it was the writing i could even see him as Carnage what a good sport!

[@cottoncoffin]

He’s a gem

[@wawztzta8296]

i personally really like his version of eddie brock, just needed more of him

[@brockbenavides7185]

That ad sounded great then Deadpool kicks in the door and beheads Topher as apart of his clean up of the timeline from the end of Deadpool 2 #itsallconnected

[@getit9066]

Seth Meyers has the creepiest Cheshire Cat grin I have ever had the misfortune to witness.

[@DrizzyJuan]

Topher Grace as Reed Richards ( Mr Fantastic)

[@DevilsKnyte]

I feel like they missed the ball on having him return as venom in No way home and have Hardy’s venom get introduced to Hollands Spider-Man by facing off with Tophers venom. They also missed the ball by not having amazing Spider-Man’s Harry not coming in and playing a role with Defoes goblin. But hey this is just my opinion.

[@soseikiharagatatsu7859]

This is the guy who goes to a church and prayed to kill peter Parker lol

[@abdobellah8998]

I would love to see him back as venom in venom 3 because i here a rumour we could see a multiverse travel like spider man no way home or in the next spider man multiverse movie in future he's venom was soo good but he got so much underrated

[@arkanbadruzzaman9080]

Getting bullied by Bully Maguire is an absolute pleasure

[@buddymckane1179]

Nice Toupee Toph! Get it from Kurtwood Smith!?

[@algallego]

I prefer Tom Hardy as Venom!

[@kazuallykunfuzed]

Always room for a Venom-verse

[@skyeaengel2409]

Wow, he is a handsome man. I never thought that of Eric! Lmao

[@jackkelly9048]

Topher seems like a real dude's dude Chill as hell

[@heavymetalbassist5]

I personally like Topher as venom, its better when he starts slimmer.