Topping D90 III Discrete 1 Bit DAC Review

[@donnowak4304]

This channel is the reason I discovered Grace Mahya! Like 4 years ago.

[@s1969g4]

Thanks for your awesome reviews. keep up the good work

[@Tharbamar]

Cheers! 👍

[@davidmolyneux9014]

Love your videos, thanks! I'm interested if you follow a process to level match the DAC outputs before doing the demo section of the video? Example do you use spl meter, multimeter etc, or just by ear? Thanks!

[@Tharbamar]

@@davidmolyneux9014 mostly I use DB meter and monitor with level meter on my recorder, thanks

[@fab_fourr]

Hi Tharbamar, could be very interesting a test comparison of Topping D90 with other more expensive Dac like Denafrips Pontus, Holuo Audio ecc.

[@Tharbamar]

Noted!

[@ywsx6489]

i wish topping would include a DC input for external linear supplies like gustard's AH90.

[@knechtdermajestat5138]

Hello sir, I currently have a Gustard A26 with me for testing and am very satisfied with its musicality and dynamics. What I'm missing a bit is a deep bass. I also saw your review of the R26 and was more impressed with the bass than the A26. Now I wanted to ask you where you would rank the Topping D90 III between the A26 and the R26. I'm currently using the Yamaha A-S2200 and I get my source from the Aune S10n. Wish you all the best!

[@phetmoz]

iiWi Reviews ranks the D90 III Discrete above the R26, which in turn many prefer before the A26. So the ranking goes: 1. D90 III Discrete 2. R26 3.A26

[@knechtdermajestat5138]

@@phetmoz I've now looked at that review. I think you misunderstood something. iiWi: R26 A26 D90

[@phetmoz]

@@knechtdermajestat5138 No, go back and listen iiWi Review of Topping D90 III Discrete. He says at 16:30 to 17:10 VERY clearly that Holo Cyan 2 and Topping 90 III Discrete are the best under $2000, with R26 behind them. Watch again.

[@phetmoz]

​@@knechtdermajestat5138No, he very clearly said D90III Discrete & Holo Cyan 2 are the best DACs under $2000. Go watch it again.

[@junzhang2087]

I am really confused with topping. For every six months there is a revision of D90. I have the original D90 and Denafrips Ares2.

[@endrizo]

waiting for smsl version of the r2r dac under a grand

[@tessie4204]

Looks like a good combo with the Arcam A15 or A25 amp

[@BoRerunn]

It is a warm sounding device

[@Harvy75a]

Thx, instead of having to choose between 2 dacs now they are 3... 😢 Schiit Bifrost 2/64 and Denafrips 15th... PS I am using Topping A90 Discrete as PRE.

[@phetmoz]

@@Harvy75a Bifrost 2 2/64 is not quite at the same level.

[@BoRerunn]

I just bought one and it muffed my rock n roll music, it removed all the airiness and soundstage. I'm returning it ASAP

[@phetmoz]

@@BoRerunn Are you talking about Topping D90III Discrete? My advice is to live with it for a few days and then compare it to your old DAC. You don't know what you might conclude then. It may have qualities you'll miss more than you think.

[@BoRerunn]

@@phetmoz my other DAC is a Geshelli J2 socketted with Bursons opamps

[@phetmoz]

@@BoRerunn my advice still stands. 1-bit is not as "blown up" in sound presentation. It's usually blacker between notes and more distinct. Many are reporting that it becomes noticeably better after just 50 hours or so being on and playing, so try that.

[@BoRerunn]

I just bought one and it muffed my rock n roll music, it removed all the airiness and soundstage. I'm returning it ASAP

[@Harvy75a]

@@BoRerunn xlr or RCA? With a pre or not?

[@BoRerunn]

@@Harvy75a I only used it with HiFi audio on RCA out

[@Harvy75a]

@@BoRerunn did you make some hours of "burnin"? Keep it working for about 50 hours at it would be ok

[@matytinman]

Please, try (Topping) with this PEQ: 6.5kHz, -0.3dB, Q=2 to take away some of the brightness and thus highlight the mids, which is what could be improved

[@matytinman]

@@johnm3544 Without a doubt, because I notice it almost every day in my "cheap" (but very optimized) second audio system. The key is Q. With Q=0.1 ... 0.7 I doubt I would notice it, but with Q=2 I would. With that value the AREA under the curve is much larger and the ear detects that variation in energy (think of mathematical integrals). Trust me and try it. First with +/- 1 dB. Then +/- 0.8 dB and... Depending on the optimization of your audio system (basically: elimination of the bottlenecks that are always there, the main one being the power grid, with so much pollution) and ear training (I listen to high quality recordings and a dynamic range, DR, of 12-15 dB usually) the threshold in dB will be higher or lower.

[@Galineo]

Is the best dac at this price range . size and looking does not say nothing ; thank you for your great review , just curious how the d900m3 discrete compares to the rme dac2 fs

[@joeythedime1838]

Hi Tharbamar, thank you for the detailed review. I have an Eversolo DMP-A8 that feeds my Accuphase E-4000. Do you think I would gain a noticeable improvement by bypassing the DMP-A8's internal DAC and inserting the Topping D90 III into my system?

[@BoRerunn]

I just bought one and it muffed my rock n roll music, it removed all the airiness and soundstage. I'm returning it ASAP

[@MK-by7lx]

Tharbamar topping d90III vs smsl d400ex ? ❤

[@Tharbamar]

D400EX is a little more deeper for sure, may be a touch more resolution and slightly more forward but it’s only based on memory. Thanks

[@maxt.1726]

Nice review as always. How does it compare to Denafrips Ares 15thR2R DAC? Thanks!

[@Raymondey]

iiWi Reviews told D90 D is better than 15th Ares, only Cyan 2 is on par

[@seanb3303]

Hello friend. Did you hear Topping new R2R DAC in China?

[@StefanUrkel]

didn't even know they have R2R DAC

[@seanb3303]

@@StefanUrkel it should be released any day in the USA. He could have it but reviewers often aren’t allowed to talk about it until released

[@mehmetcamat4458]

how would you compare it to the more expensive gustard x30 you reviewed a while ago

[@dingskydongsky]

exactly !

[@Tharbamar]

@@mehmetcamat4458 X30 is more precision and refine with more air, D90 III Discrete is not entirely in that level yet but what it can do is pretty amazing in the price range.

[@mehmetcamat4458]

Thank you

[@ZVM600]

Конечно d90 лучше 😂😂😂

[@Frank-cm3wp]

Which one sounds better to you, d90 III Discrete or Denafrips Ares 15th, based on your own taste?

[@Tharbamar]

It would be tough but if I have to pick one D90 III Discrete is my choice, thanks

[@tessie4204]

I wonder if you change the DAC's that we can hear the difference. Can you do some sound testing between different DAC's in one video? I think more people would like to hear it also.

[@Tharbamar]

It's been done in the past, please see my DAC comparison videos. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aH_FqJZte6eZa8U

[@AttilaBalla87]

Okay, I have to admit this one sounds different than other Toppings. Best to date! However, D900 is more than promising!

[@liamporter1137]

Love Topping, SMSL etc small size, light weight and cost effectiveness. All HiFi gears should be done in this manner. Of course Topping, SMSL etc can make their products look even better like furniture.

[@ShyamKasundra-n8d]

I can't tell which you like better, the Gustard X30 or Topping D90? Obviously, they are in completely different price classes, but you described both pretty similarly, especially in terms of detail clarity and bass emphasis. How would you compare these 2?

[@Tharbamar]

X30 is more precision and refine with more air, D90 III Discrete is not entirely in that level yet but for that price of the unit what it can do is pretty amazing.

[@Raymondey]

Is it far behind Gustard X30?

[@Tharbamar]

It’s different but I can happily listen to D90 III Discrete.

[@Raymondey]

@@Tharbamar Thanks! 👍🏼

[@jamestartaglia7686]

I have l82 and live them...i listen tomthe more then my buchart s and audiovectors and falcons gold badge...with smsl stack and sound eq'ed at right space and volume l82 are awesome...i dont have room for l100 😢

[@Tharbamar]

They are great speakers!

[@landosazo7506]

Hello...would it be a significant upgrade to go from SMSL SU-9 Ultra to the Topping D90 III Discrete?

[@Tharbamar]

Good upgrade but the rest is based on the system, thanks

[@dap777754]

Tharbamar: please compare VMV D1se DAC to Topping D90 III. You used to like the VMV D1se? So much better?

[@Tharbamar]

I no longer have D1SE but as I said in this video it's best of both world thats coming from comparing with Terminator Plus, thanks

[@Hitsujiomeguruboken]

What do you think is the technical reason why it doesn’t harmonise perfectly with the Topping B100 amp? I would guess, that a perfect transparent amp as the B100 would be the perfect fit for a DAC that adds a bit of warmth and musicality. Isn’t your amp doing „a bit to much“ in that aspect.

[@Tharbamar]

B100 is a little bit on colder side of transparent and I do prefer warmer side of neutral sound, there is no technical reason it just synergy and personal preference.

[@Hitsujiomeguruboken]

Thank you very much! I really like your reviews and the effort you undertake to do everything in English. This is amazing!

[@kennethmccullough1342]

I heard you mention the E70 Velvet. Did you prefer this D90 III to the E70? Thank you.

[@Tharbamar]

I do not, E70v was one of my favorite Topping DAC but it’s not on the level of D90iii Discrete.

[@ionutsborbe6405]

Well another dac , and another dac and another thing that cost above 1k initially i was also in this trap but i recently discovered that a 300 eur for an old vintage amplifier has wiped the floor with a 6k amplifier with separate preamp with xlr expensive cables etc. obviously same source same dac same speakers. And then switching 3 different dacs result: with dacs barely hear a difference but switching the amplifier with the vintage one boom different story the music now has soul not boring anymore. I have more than 5 years searching … and now i have 5 different vintage amplifiers because i have fallen in love with them! I will no give names for the gear i simply want to help the people that look for this kind of videos and hoping that theirs setup with not sound boring anymore! tip : a good dac combo with good vintage amplifier,normal quality cables and good quality source = music not boring with amazing bass grip , intimate mids, warm and musical sound quality in my experience the order is Room acoustic then speakers, then amplifier, then source and after dac and etc . cheers 👋

[@shyamkasundra675]

These are not all components that function on their own, and therefore cannot be ranked in terms of which affects sound quality more. It is about the synergy of all of these components together. I would be willing to bet a DAC would be quite important in a warm vintage amp system, and I would not want to combine the warmest of R2R DACs with it. If you also had warm speakers, that would make DAC pairing even more important in this case.

[@ionutsborbe6405]

@@shyamkasundra675 dac must be transparent no? I have r2r and delta sigma dacs and the difference in only because of their architecture. changes in details or texture timbre is result of that type of architecture , vintage electronics does not mean they are all warm in tonality, and obviously you have to pair them well together, speakers and amp. DACs in my opinion doesn’t make much in that aspect only if maybe a crazy amount of money witch most of us don’t have!

[@shyamkasundra675]

@@ionutsborbe6405 True, in theory, they should all just convert 0s and 1s to a sound wave. In all seriousness, why does ESS and AKM have more than one chip offering, and also come out with new chips every few years? Surely the ESS9039PRO converts digital to analog better than the both the ESS9039Q2M and ESS9038PRO?

[@matytinman]

Good/very good sound. I always notice an excess of bass when you use the Pioneer TAD S-1EX for demos.

[@richardleong3427]

Thanks for sharing. If compare with musician pegasus II DAC do you recommend change to this DAC?

[@Tharbamar]

Both very good DAC it will be depending on if you like pure R2R or nice balanced in between, honestly it's going to be tough choice. Only way is you have to try them in your system.

[@phetmoz]

​@@TharbamarBut you would say that topping D90 III Discrete has faster, higher resolution sound?

[@Tharbamar]

Pegasus II is going be on par with them in sound quality but immediacy and bass quality I would say D90 III D is, thanks

[@bryanwilliams3665]

We are at a point in Dac performance where we pay for 'bragging rights'... Why would someone pay twice as much for an alternative DAC which was more 'boutique' but may not have any noticeable upgrade?...It's because they want to pay for the badge... It's the same with cars where a cheaper brands higher level model at a reasonable price far exceeds a " Premium Brand" high priced entry level junk .. People continue to pay for a label.

[@ZVM600]

​@@phetmozдобавьте на r26, и будет счастье 😊

[@iakovs]

I think you also liked SMSL SU-X, how does Topping D90III Descrete compare to it?

[@Tharbamar]

Comparable in sound quality but very very different DAC design and sound it will only come down to personal preference.

[@iakovs]

@@Tharbamar What do YOU prefer? I have no way of comparing DACs like you do but I trust your personal preference.

[@iakovs]

I also heard of SU-X overheating issues which is not ideal.

[@Tharbamar]

Sorry I can’t do personal advice due to each system and taste is different. Never had over heating issue with SU-X, probably because of improper handling.

[@iakovs]

@@Tharbamar Sorry, I probably wasn't clear. I'm curious about your preference between SU-X and D90III Discrete. If you had to choose, which one would you pick?

[@kempfand]

@Tharbamar : I only recently discovered your channel, and I like it for very good reviews on a broad range of HiFi products. This is another good help to decide for purchase, or to have latest status of technology. One question please: When you describe this DAC as “ music, musicality “, does it mean “ analog sound “ ? If not, what DAC would you recommend for “ analog sound “, or can you use any synergistic DAC to the overall system, and pair it with a Tube (-pre-) Amp to get this ( analog sound ) ?

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

SMSL D300 and its way cheaper than these dacs

[@Tharbamar]

Hi welcome, thank you for watching. It's going to be hard to describe but to me analog sound is playing actual instrument like acoustic guitar, which I do. This DAC is very close to it in that regard with my set up, Thats where all those quotes are from, for the price I think it's getting pretty close to it, also I would try R2R DAC from Denafrips or Musician, thank you.

[@YTjuanchicod]

What is the product above the X30?

[@Tharbamar]

It’s New Network Switch from Matrix Audio.

[@BobbyBass-x6i]

Thanks for the review. I tried the Topping before this one. Sounded good but not as detailed and as good as my Holo Audio Cyan 2. The Cyan 2 cost about $300 US more but worth it IMO. Rock on!v

[@richarddegannes2928]

Hi Tharbamar, Would you say that this Topping D90 III DAC is better than D90SE or Denafrips Pontus 2 12th or 15th? Thanks in advance.

[@Tharbamar]

Generally they’re all good sounding DAC but this D90 III Discrete is better in holographic sound than the rest in this price point in my system, thanks

[@chengo51]

I wish you could review the Auralic Vega S1

[@ConorHanley]

The window is daft unless one gets an RGB light show in sequence with the music, horrible though that might be.

[@reynoldnayoan3296]

Please ask, how many microphones are used to record the sound?

[@Tharbamar]

Using Two microphones.

[@nutscoco4333]

how does it compare to A26? which one do you prefer 🤤thanks

[@Tharbamar]

minus the streaming features sound is going tossed up base on personal taste, although A26 can get a bit bright in some paring, thanks

[@ZVM600]

А26 это посредственность R26 его топчит, как и этот😮

[@gogenolenev2839]

Topping top

[@nonchalantd]

❤

[@marnixtellings6583]

Does it have smsl competition?

[@Tharbamar]

SMSL SU-X & D400EX.

[@fatdoi003]

giant killer?? D90 IIID vs X30??

[@justasimplefox]

This review describes the sound quite different then the iWii one..warm vs lean midrange etc...confusing 🤔

[@Tharbamar]

I would check out paring components, mid range can be neutral with some paring but not on lean side even in Topping demo room.

[@AttilaBalla87]

The other reviewer hasn't said it has lean midrange. He just found it leaner than some R2R DACs. It's a super transparent DAC, dpending on you other components it can be warm sounding or analytical. For example @Tharbamar using Accuphase integrated amp with warmer sound character, while iiWi uses ICEpower 1200 based power amps, which are class D with more neutral sound character. This can describe the precieved difference.

[@justasimplefox]

@@AttilaBalla87 The class D amp could be indeed the reason, personally I would not pair this dac with class D. iWii never mention the other equipment he uses, so I forgot. Thanks for this reply, very helpful 👌🏻

[@Tharbamar]

@@AttilaBalla87 Thanks for your input, in this video I mentioned I did not like the way they sound together with Topping B100 Class D mono amps but I will definitely try to make it more clear in the future instead just saying synergy is not there, thanks

[@EddNog]

@@Tharbamar B100 is Class-B.

[@Spicycomment1]

Vs wiim ultra?

[@StefanUrkel]

Topping are always highly detailed, excellent sounding, but 2d and narrower soundstage. Will be surprised if this one any different

[@Tharbamar]

Only way is you'll have try it in your system :)

[@phetmoz]

Delta Sigma is flat. R2R & 1Bit are not. 1bit sounds very defined in space, both width and depth work blackness between notes, but also very refined to the point of sounding little polite. It is so refined that it is offering a somewhat blunted transient attack, yet spatially defined. Like a needle pointing at you with a very rounded tip. Delta Sigma is undefined in space and has big, blown up instruments with sharp contouring. R2R has a more realistic edge to the music with more tangible midrange body, but not as clean, separated, technical or extended. 1 bit really offers a delicious balance.

[@StefanUrkel]

@@phetmoz Thanks - don't recall if I've ever listened to 1bit and if I have it's been a while and I don't remember. Your description of Delta Sigma and R2R seem to match my own experience with those. I do like those qualities of R2R. I may give 1 bit a try. Topping, based on some postings I've come across, seems to be hit or miss in terms of longevity/reliability, not unlike SMSL. Makes me leery about them long-term.

[@phetmoz]

@@StefanUrkel you're right to be leery. I had the SMSL SU-X, its digital section was very buggy and incompatible with my streamer, introducing timing artifacts into the sound. No bueno. I'm told Topping is more reliable for what it's worth.

[@jos5067]

I just bought the Holo Cyan 2. This one seems to be on the same level. Did someone compare them already?

[@Raymondey]

Yes, iiWi Reviews did

[@d-one8038]

Now, inbetween X30 and Discret Dac "the choice becomes difficult": more body discret, longer release ?

[@AttilaBalla87]

Considering the price price/performance ratio there's no difficulty at all. If you need the features of the X30 that's another story.

[@d-one8038]

@@AttilaBalla87 I hate the brightness when I digitize a vinyl

[@aaronfriedman8201]

Wow is it almost as good than Gustard X30?

[@sebastiencouleau4330]

Hello I don't like the sound. It sounds slow and not full and a little metallic or harsh. (Maybe ultra sonic noise from 1 bit). It reminds me of cs4392 that I didn't like that was 1bit. I don't see any benefit of using 1 bit for pcm. You loose resolution and have only drawbacks. 1 bit dacs are adapted for dsd playback. Compared to other videos I prefer the fosi dac or the do100 pro.

[@phetmoz]

1-bit is all about marrying naturality with specificity. It's taking 80% from R2R school and 80% from Delta Sigma school. It's a really satisfying mixture of both. The only true drawback I think 1-bit sound has is a somewhat blunted transient attack, which Tharbamar noted as a somewhat shy upper midrange. Yes, it lacks a certain attacking sharpness to the onset of notes - but it also means it cannot offend and it doesn't scratch your ears, you can play really loud and it will keep its specificity and dynamics in a black background.

[@Pete.across.the.street]

iiwi had the premiere earlier today.

[@Tharbamar]

No worries it’s all good, I premiered yesterday for members only, thanks

[@Pete.across.the.street]

@@Tharbamar was it really premiered to the world if it was members only? Either way, I enjoyed your review. Thank you.

[@Tharbamar]

@@Pete.across.the.street You’re right, I changed it.

[@meutubedou]

iiWi Reviews beat you to the Premier punch ..

[@Tharbamar]

Mine was released yesterday for members only.

[@meutubedou]

@@Tharbamar, I did reply to you saying “I get you and Best2You” , But now it seems KZbin is shadow banning me even on your channel.. Pretty disgusting that I not allowed a reply.. Or are you using a truth censor monitor who is also a Facebook fact checker🤣🤣🤣🤣.

[@phetmoz]

​@@middleearthltdif I'm not mistaken, he did rank them on the same level but with tonal and technical differences. He put them both in 1st place under $2000, with the Laiv Harmony the next clear step up. In certain systems, the Topping with its slightly more analytical and focused sound should provide a better synergy with total performance about on the same level as Cyan 2. That's

[@Tharbamar]

@meutubedou I don't see the comment that you're talking about, my channel only censor for curse words and links.

[@meutubedou]

@@Tharbamar , I did not swear or have a link… That’s what “ Shadow Banning” is.. As I said, I replied immediately to you and it’s not there.. This has been happening a few times now on your channel when I try to leave a comment or reply..KZbin has been shadow banning millions of us for over 3 yrs. now.. No big deal.. My reply to you saying you had the video up the night before to your Patreon’s, was “I got you.” Best2You🤗 Meaning I understood you were 1st.✅