Torp TC500 teardown 1

[@fynnchiboy1060]

I have a torp500 on my surron and i think it is one of the best Controllers because using it is very easy but i really like your videos pointing out the problems and downsides of the Controller. Everything has it downsides and we need more videos that explain them. Great work

[@surronzak8154]

I can’t wait to see your inside review Xp 🔥🔥🔥

[@Evgeniy_6KWT]

You are just a machine! On their website, inside everything is quite beautifully shown, but we will find out how we really will soon :)

[@x0jamiex0]

Eyy just installed mine today so far so good amazing throttle response compared to stock, and if you watch the install video they have it shows step by step how to install, a child could do it

[@de-bodgery]

Can't say much now, but when I do talk about it, you are going to be PISSED OFF and astonished!

[@ryanmerrill8879]

Throttle response on any half decent controller can be adjusted. It's 3 keystrokes to make it appear to have better throttle response. Realistically you just changing the throttle curve to come in earlier.

[@de-bodgery]

Of course a child could do it. They hobbled a VESC controller so you can't access the full VESC functionality!

[@de-bodgery]

@@ryanmerrill8879 And this is a VESC controller. There is no evidence that myself or 20 VESC engineers that I'm talking to since I got this controller have found so far to lead us to any other conclusion! It's a VESC controller pure and simple. Most of the ways to access it are not wired at the connector to hide that this is VESC, but that's something I'm working on reversing! VESC comes with all sorts of throttle curves!

[@IncredibleCisco]

as much as i like your reviews. On this one your on the wrong train. Its a Product FOR Surron. Not a diy controller for other bikes. Theres no need to give dokumentation on the output wires because no enduser should bolt it to anything else but surron. Potting is to shred heat and being waterproof. you cant blame them for this. Its also safety for the seller since you know theres always customers to open stuff and do bad things and then try to catch warranties. ;) Support times are low af too.

[@de-bodgery]

Trust me on this! I know exactly what I'm saying and this is JUST a controller! It will work on literally any EV that runs on 20S or less. It is quite literally NOT something dedicated to Surron in any way other than Torp insisting that it is. This is FAR from the case! This "end user" will very much in fact bolt it to "something else"!!! Potting is to hide construction, same as why ASI does it. Potting to shed heat is a side matter and does save them the cost of making a proper shell too. It's jsut a controller and can work on anything!

[@de-bodgery]

I've been working with VESC engineers over the past couple of days. They tell me this is VESC. Everything we uncover about it says VESC. That's a controller that runs on anything! I'm doing a deep dive into the controller and so far NOTHING about it so far makes anyone beleive anything other than this is a VESC controller!

[@jotham123]

@@de-bodgery You're absolutely correct but I think the point IncredibleCisco is getting at is, that it's marketed, intended, and setup to be used with specificed products and nothing else. It is dumb that they won't share pinout etc, but to call them out as you have it's going a little far. I've been refraining from saying this for a while now but I think it'd help if you reduced the repeating on how you either like/dislike xyz products. Say it once or twice, and come on a bit less strong. It's your channel, etc I'm not telling you what to do but I think it'd help the cause and you get more traction with vendors. EDIT: and audience.

[@de-bodgery]

@@jotham123 This is a VESC controller plain and simple. They are misrepresenting VESC by saying this is "Developed for XYZ". It's VESC! IT works on everything!

[@jotham123]

@@de-bodgery how can you say that. It's been set up for a specific motor with specific parameters, sure hack it but it's not like it's been mismarketed. Maybe I'm missing your point maybe your point js you expected the ESC to not be lockdown the way it is.

[@sn0wchyld]

there are some solvents that'll disolve/soften some potting too...

[@de-bodgery]

Heat softened the hard outer layer and then it came up in 2 large sections. Under that was flexible thermal potting. I've got it all cleaned up now. You can't get it apart easily. The large caps are inside wells in the aluminum heat spreader. They are packed in potting and will not come out by just pulling them out. I filed down a cheap screw driver into steel peg that would fit between the aluminum and the cap so I could dig out the potting around the caps a little at a time. They are soldered to the logic board so you have to unsolder the cap legs as you gently pry up the logic board. All 8 caps eventually come out of the through holes in the logic board and then you can lift it off. Underneath is more flexible potting to clear away so that I could pull up the power stage. After that is removed, finally I could dig around the large caps to free them from the potting. This controller is quite difficult to extricate from the potting! On a positive note, I broke off 1 resistor and the 3 pin headers between the logic stage and power stage. Everything went back together without issues so I think the controller is probably OK. Pretty sure I voided the warranty! OOPSIE!

[@tau3457]

One of the main selling points of this controller is it retains functionality of the factory display, kickstand etc. which is important for legality in some countries. With other controllers police can clue onto the fact the bike is modded. Claiming it was not developed specifically for surron is kind of a weird hill to die on.

[@de-bodgery]

Except that it's VESC...so its not developed for any one platform at all!

[@sn0wchyld]

the fact that it can be so easily reverse engineered does make the pinout thing pretty dumb. Like KO refusing to give the kv of their MX motor... yet they posted the torque and phase current numbers... which lets you calculate the kv... so why be so cagy about it? because they didn't even know that torque constant was proportional to voltage constant, and (for some reason) didnt want anyone knowing the kv anyway. Durp.

[@de-bodgery]

Uhhh...because KO is idiots, morons and crooks? And yeah, Torp is being stupid and annoying! I get very much a shady vibe from Torp!

[@AugustMaverick]

nice vid

[@de-bodgery]

It's depotted now and cleaned up. time to show the goods!

[@brianhawk6979]

Fuck yeah I've been on the fence with these guys can't wait I hope you can shed some light on the difference in wattage claims for the different stock batteries?

[@de-bodgery]

It's a 12 fet controller. No way is going to be more powerful than a 24 or 30 or 36 fet controller. Also, it is VESC and NOT "something special" from Torp. It is a hobbled VESC controller. Most of the ways normal VESC controllers bring out programming is not in the pin connector. If for some reason a firmware upgrade goes bad and it is bricked, there is no way to reflash the CPU. You literally throw away the controller for a bad firmware update!!!! USB, UART, SWDio and a couple of other things are not wired into the connector. This is all done to HIDE that it is VESC!

[@brianhawk6979]

@@de-bodgery Thars SUCH a shame I am one of Vedder's, VESC's biggest fans!!! Please keep us updated

[@brianhawk6979]

@@de-bodgery Does it at least have CAN?

[@de-bodgery]

@@brianhawk6979 I don't talk to Benjamin hardly at all, very rarely, but I talk to many people that design for VESC as a living and know the tech well. Benjamin Vedder is a hero in my eyes! I've thought that for a number of years as my understanding of VESC has grown. His work is possibly THE BEST thing to hit the EV world in motor control! It's my opinion that if a controller company isn't developing for VESC, they are being foolish! It's not like VESC is black magic or something silly like that. It's just got the best possible potential and has 10's of thousands of people all over the world developing around this single open source platform. When you have the lion share of controller engineers voluntarily adopting this one platform for their controller development, that ought to sink in just a little HOW IMPORTANT VESC is!!! When people dismiss VESC, I role my eyes and think, "What idiots! This is the best thing that has happened to EV's since the invention of lithium batteries!!!"

[@de-bodgery]

@@brianhawk6979 It has canbus, but Torp has changed its protocols so that VESCtool won't recognize it. In my next video, I'll talk about some of that as it's unavoidable with the extra wires hanging off the controller.

[@surronzak8154]

So you need to to a mold before tearing appart so you can remold the controler ^^ awesome

[@de-bodgery]

I have it competely depotted now and cleaned up...looks nice and clean, but there is ZERO chance it will ever have a lid on it since it never did.

[@joem8601]

It’s a surron product, why would they support people who are trying to use it for their private projects? And would they want people to start modifying it and cause them headaches?

[@de-bodgery]

This is incorrect! They "claim" it's a Surron product, but it's just a VESC controller and they work with anything. They have done a lot of effort to HIDE they are using VESC! This is why they claim what they have claimed.

[@bj97301]

🤘

[@Ray88G]

I bet the wires can be traced . Are you gonna dissolve the potting in some sort of solution ?

[@de-bodgery]

Wires are easy for what's in the harness. Just look up the surron wiring harness and I have that. There's many more pins in the controller connector than is in the Surron harness. I did get it depotted and more teardowns are coming.

[@djdubz]

So torp tc500 or KO factory spec between the 2 controllers?

[@de-bodgery]

2 bad choices... Torp is stolen VESC and KO is just flat out a bad design. How about Tronic or Trampa or SHUL?

[@djdubz]

​@@de-bodgeryThx for options. Unfortunately I already have a KO F Spec controller (not yet installed and may try to sell to source a better controller) and don't know anything about tuning. Torp and KO both have apps that make it easy for my surron, which is the appeal to those. (plus the pretty seamless installation without any mods). Instead of Torp I thought about x9000 (what's your take on the x9000?). I have a surron x, mostly onroad and nothing crazy with my riding (No jumping, No water, No enduro, etc). Just want a better controller, when I upgrade to 72v battery and want to be able to use my upgraded controller with my stock 60v battery w/out having to bypass the battery, until I upgrade to 72v. In addition to the appeal of multiple tuning apps with the Torp or KO controller, I like that it's very much plug and play vs BAC4k/8k for example. Do Tronic, Tramps, or SHUL have easy install and tuning options? (App available? Hardly any modding when installing, etc.) In my case, x9000, Torp, or KO are the easy options based on the amount of videos avaialble for me to follow along with in my journey. Please let me know your thoughts. p.s. I build fpv rc freestyle drones and we use similar components on a lower level (2s-6s), so the build quality and components are important to me, but in the end, I just want a seamless process and turning options that I don't have to spend hours or days on and are reliable, longevity, safe, again, hence why I orignially go the KO. In the end. In reality I don't want to spend anymore money on a new controller (and may just stick with it), but due to some of the KO issues I've heard of kinda put me off, which is why I'm looking at other options. Surely KO or Torp has to be better controller options than my stock Surron X controller?

[@de-bodgery]

@@djdubz I did a lot of X9000 videos...go watch them. Sell your FSPEC before you blow it up and get an X9000!!!

[@djdubz]

@@de-bodgery Thank you! I'll take a look at your x9000 videos! Now just need to sell my F spec.

[@aviatoFPV]

I'll watch it later today, what's the verdict? Worth it? Could it be a worthwile upgrade for the ultra bee as well? Comparison to the x9000?

[@de-bodgery]

Get the X9000...far more powerful controller. This is jsut a 12 fet.

[@DuckNono82]

@EV Components Review (De-bodgery) Really great review. I really want to thank you for your great job. I am really impressed by the performance of this tiny controller. More powerful than my previous Nucular24F. On the paper, it should be less powerful, but in the real world, it is more powerfull. Trying to understand how it is possible. Do you know the specifications of those FET? 100V? How many amps can handle one?

[@de-bodgery]

@@DuckNono82 People keep saying the TC500 is more powerful than XYZ. It's a 12 fet TOLL controller. You'll get something like 375 phase amps out of it max. This isn't close to the 500 phase from the Nucular 24 fet. I think you had some sort of motor set up issue on your Nuk. There is no way what you say makes sense otherwise! Some part of your Nucular set up was undermining your maximum motor torque.

[@DuckNono82]

@EV Components Review (De-bodgery) I agree with you and that's why I don't understand. I know well the Nucular and tested a lot of settings during two years. On the stock motor Sur-Ron we are few riders who had compared the two controllers and for sure tc500 work better especially in mid and high rpm. It is just a fact. Don't know how it is possible but it is... Maybe combo Nucular / Surron motor is not optimal ... don't know ...

[@de-bodgery]

@@DuckNono82 There's a setup reason for this. I can't speak about your use of the Nuk 24 fet, but there are lots of people running around out there with these controllers and the majority are happy with the results. Beyond that, there is no way the TC500 is out performing the Nuk 24 fet.

[@jotham123]

Do they tell you pre- purchase that unless ita going on a surron you'll get no support?

[@de-bodgery]

Not that I saw. Go look on their website. Do you see it anywhere?

[@joem8601]

It’s designed for surron

[@de-bodgery]

@@joem8601 It's jsut a VESC controller, not designed for Surron in any way!

[@joem8601]

@@de-bodgery say that to my friend who’s riding with me at least 2 days every week for the past few months We went all over New York I have a BAC and he has a Torp

[@de-bodgery]

@@joem8601 OK! Tell him to comment here and I'll tell him the same thing! It's a VESC controller and NOT designed for Surron specifically! VESC isn't "designed" for any EV specifically! Neither is the Torp TC500! Just VESC...and heavily hobbled so you can't use VESCtool with it!

[@patrickmckowen2999]

👍

[@dillaboo16]

How do you get one in the us?

[@de-bodgery]

Look on the DarwinEV website...they have them.

[@vijaykorvekar1009]

For how much will you sell the 32kw rewounded motor

[@surronzak8154]

The one with the splited rotor?

[@vijaykorvekar1009]

@@surronzak8154 the tp 128 (he said he is going to rewind

[@de-bodgery]

@@surronzak8154 LOL...that's the KO FSPEC motor and it won't deliver 32kw anyway. The TP-128 with water jacket according to simulations will handle 32kw. If reality matches that, well super awesome. I'm going to wait and see personally.

[@de-bodgery]

I have to wind one and test it first. I've been getting other things out of the way before I move to that. Many projects all in parallel means incremental steps on each one.

[@weshawk7035]

yeah but its not there fault if you use the controller for other purposes besides whatits supported for(surron)

[@de-bodgery]

It's VESC! VESC works with everything! They deliberately hobbled the VESC tech stack to make it work on the factory Surron motor only. This is pretty stupid! Congrats Torp for cutting the legs out from under VESC! What a DUMB idea!!!

[@helios_ja]

Wow so apparently only people who have Sur Rons count

[@de-bodgery]

Torp has put a motor tune in the TC500 for the factory Surron motor. So from their perspective, despite this being a VESC controller, all it can be used on is a factory Surron. This is of course erroneous!

[@joem8601]

Nah this review is biased You do work for EBMX

[@de-bodgery]

OK, you claim it like so many KO fanboys have, so it must be true! I'm laughing! IF EBMX did want to pay me, I'd work for them. They are a stand-up bunch of guys and they make a good controller and will soon have a good motor out too. I do LIKE the people and the products from EBMX, but I DO NOT in any way "get paid" or "sponsored" or "funded" or "supported" by them in any way that you as a regular customer of theirs would get any of those things! I'm just an EBMX customer like anyone else!

[@joem8601]

@@de-bodgery I dislike KO because of your reviews, but it seems like you're also trying to make people dislike Torp. I've tested and installed the Torp controller myself for my friends multiple times, and they all love it. The performance is great, and I even raced it with my BAC4000. My eyes don't lie, and neither does the performance, reliability, range, and acceleration. My experience of testing it myself is more solid than your rant against it. I'm speaking from personal experience and watching my friends use it for months on every long ride we've gone on.

[@de-bodgery]

@@joem8601 I have good and bad to say about Torp. Their hardware is pretty nice. The business model is corrupt and criminal! You will see tear downs soon...working on that now!

[@joem8601]

@@de-bodgery In the video, you made a lot of unwarranted criticism about the Torp controller, which you did not do for the BAC. Unlike the BAC, which is designed for multiple bikes, the Torp controller is made specifically for the SURRON. This leads me to believe that you may be biased, or that someone else paid you to shame Torp with your nonsense. Could you provide a receipt to prove your purchase? It is worth noting that the Torp controller did take longer to release than the KO controller. However, it is also the easiest and quickest controller to install and set up on the SURRON, and it works great. Furthermore, unlike KO, there are no customer complaints about the Torp controller malfunctioning or hindering a person's ability to ride. It only offers improvement, much like the BAC 4000.

[@de-bodgery]

@@joem8601 Unwarranted? You mean fully factual statements? This is VESC and that is all it is!