High-Speed Video Uncovers Weird Stuff In Popular Impact Driver (See Comments)

Our lifetime of TOOL RANKINGS torquetestchannel.etsy.com
READ 1st: Appears as though this may be a "not a bug, it's a feature" deal? Overseas Hikoki advertises Power mode (P) as hitting 1.5 times a rotation, so this may be by design? We contacted HPT 5 days ago and they ultimately said they'd need to check with their Japanese engineers to speak to this. So I'm guessing it's not just new stuff to us. We tried to do our due diligence. Seems to be losing some that energy hitting the top of the next dog, but DOES sometimes skip it. Who woulda thunk. We don't see this advertised in the HPT manuals that came with these so you'll have to excuse us for that, we don't usually read international brand manuals before using a tool purchased here. What do you think? We could always take this video down if misleading.
Hikoki: www.hikoki-powertools.com/pro...
HPT (page 16): www.metabo-hpt.com/docs/defau...
Today we dive into (literally) the Metabo HPT WH36DBQ4 36V Triple hammer as well as the 18V WH18DBDL2 impact drivers. There's a lot of mysticism when it comes to these tools regarding their unique design, but we haven't seen anyone dive into them to try and learn more. We get more than we bargained for today with oddities that only high-speed footage would resolve. This is by no means a "hit piece" we like the tool, but it's something people buying one should probably know about it if true.
Torque of TTC is working for Astro Tools who also make impact wrenches (air). TTC is not the only testing out there, always consider multiple sources when looking at a tool!

[@TorqueTestChannel]

*READ 1st:* Appears as though this may be a "not a bug, it's a feature" deal? Overseas Hikoki advertises Power mode (P) as hitting 1.5 times a rotation, so this may be by design? We contacted HPT 5 days ago and they ultimately said they'd need to check with their Japanese engineers to speak to this. So I'm guessing it's not just new stuff to us. We tried to do our due diligence. Seems to be losing some that energy hitting the top of the next dog, but DOES sometimes skip it. Who woulda thunk. We don't see this advertised in the HPT manuals that came with these so you'll have to excuse us for that, we don't usually read international brand manuals before using a tool purchased here. What do you think? We could always take this video down if misleading. Hikoki: www.hikoki-powertools.com/products/powertools/li-ion-screw/wh18dbdl2/wh18dbdl2.html HPT (page 16): www.metabo-hpt.com/docs/default-source/owners-manual/wh18dbdl2(metabohpt)_pdf_manual_view.pdf?sfvrsn=4c361466_0

[@HollinHoffman]

I'm not sure how EVERYONE missed it. But this is actually advertised as a feature by Hi-Koki everywhere else in the world. They describe it as "Power Mode" (thus the P as the setting name). I remember seeing this somewhere on the US Site/Tool Packaging back when it was Hitachi and I'm not sure where it got lost. Or how every ToolTuber has somehow avoided the information. Now, that's not to comment on the actual result of their intention. Just that it definitely IS intentional. "When enabled under heavy load, the power mode dramatically increases the impact energy by reducing the impact rate to 1.5 impacts per rotation and extending the interval between successive impacts. This mode is ideal for long or thick screws." www.hikoki-powertools.com/products/powertools/li-ion-screw/wh18dbdl2/wh18dbdl2.html

[@TorqueTestChannel]

@@HollinHoffman Thank you! Have you found any HPT literature that mentions this?

[@kylefowler5082]

@@HollinHoffman Good catch, obviously the gun still stinks however. I would not want a screw bending impact lol. This feels like a case of a feature that turned out to be a hindrance but HPT decided they are getting their research and development money back on that triple hammer feature results be damned

[@jamisonlm3]

I guess the next test is how well will drive nails and what's the biggest nail it can drive?

[@fearofchicke]

It sounds like this is a ”It’s not a bug it’s a feature.” kinda thing.

[@dorhocyn3]

Looks like a case of “more is not better” it seems like just having two dogs is more ideal and gives the motor more time to build up momentum before it drops the hammer

[@MattB90]

yes but more blows per minute means that you can drive in a screw faster. TTC said this only occurs under the highest torque loads, so "more is not better" for these applications? meaning youre not driving the largest lags you can find but for medium torque applications im sure this design is optimal...everything in engineering is a tradeoff

[@sbfguy7793]

@@MattB90 exactly. For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction.

[@codustv1465]

@@MattB90 more hits if it doe not miss but they dont have as much oomff behind the hits as a ragular 2 hammer.

[@hellzreaper1348]

@@sbfguy7793 bruh, you stole that from Einstein.

[@sbfguy7793]

@@hellzreaper1348 I didn't steal anything. I just commented something. What are you on about?

[@Mittencarpentry]

I remember reading some marketing materials from HPT when this came out that said the impact hammers 3X when not fully loaded then 1.5X when fully loaded. Believe what you are seeing is by design. In real life screw installing I’ve seen no difference between the 18V and 36V. Just buy 18’s so when they break I’m out less cash. This is certainly not a lug nut remover, but does well driving screws extremely fast, especially 3” and below. It does run long lags just fine but gets way hotter than other impacts I’ve used. The impact mechanism will just about burn your hand if you run long lags non stop for 5-10 minutes. Thanks for cutting it open, I have always wondered how it worked!

[@sixtyfiveford]

Really cool to see it in slow mo. Have you ever used one of those really cheap 12v cigarette lighter plug impact guns? They spin up for a good 5 to 10 seconds and then whack. They actually hit pretty decent because they spend so much time ramping up to full speed.

[@TorqueTestChannel]

We'll have to do one!

[@cdmccul]

@@TorqueTestChannel yes, please! I still have one of these in the wife's van, I don't have to worry about keeping a battery charged to run it when on the road. :) I may still have one to donate if you need.

[@reallifeengineer7214]

Honestly, if such a tool were to draw from car’s 12v, the tool can have an internal step-up transformer and actually run at 18~24v easily. The question is going to be the amp draw on the outlet. It *shouldn’t* blow the fuse… 😅

[@GashimahironChl]

@@reallifeengineer7214 What fuse? Oh, you mean that bent paperclip where the colorful little fuse used to be? 🤣

[@sabrinamulligan6235]

Upgraded from an older 18v kit. kzbin.infoUgkxW1vOBRCMrgTCDEijzpVzDWsgI-Jm2iQv I independently chose the drill and impact tool, before I came across the kit.I like the 3 speed impact gun. It seems more powerful than my older one, and it can be set to be really gentle. The drill is more appropriately sized for my use. I used to have a hammer drill, but I did not like that it was so big and it was not a great hammer drill. I rather have a smaller drill like this, and then get a corded hammer drill for the odd case I need that.

[@larrycroft470]

You are along with the Godfather (Project Farm) providing a HUGE helpful service to hundreds of thousands (most likely soon millions) of tool users. You also instruct & educate during the process. I hope this platform is paying you what you are worth. (Probably not)

[@MiGujack3]

The only problem is that they MUST do reruns because slimy brands will ruin good products after getting good reviews because they are that cheap.

[@MrPhatties]

I would day closer to AVE than project farm

[@gremlin3362]

Do I smell a colab with PF?

[@ianloyd6384]

I like TTC better. Much more in depth info. I mean look at this video for example. Not just so much a A. Vs B. Vs. C. Vs D. Vs E. Which is cool too.. because like a lot us on this channel, I also watch PF. Just personal preference I suppose. Both definitely good stuff tho!

[@somedudesstuff801]

This isn't usually the kind of content I get on youtube, but I use the big 1/4" to 1/2" drive ones for work, and this is great. All I really know about them is that the pneumatic ones we've gotten just can't break the nuts like the Milwaukee ones do. Even if the pneumatic ones are supposed to have the same or more torque (and are fully supplied according to their own specs.)

[@siberx4]

Even if they call this an intentional "feature", it clearly doesn't work to accomplish what they say it does with the middling results these drivers get on your dyno. There's no heavier load than hammering on a stationary bolt, and the torque they make is nothing impressive. I smell a situation where the engineers had an idea, built it, and even though the results weren't that great they handed it over to the marketing folks to put a positive spin on it and sell it anyway. Still makes this video a valuable contribution, since it highlights the fact that even though marketing may sometimes be "true" in terms of features, that doesn't necessarily translate to "better".

[@wim0104]

also, they're ripping off their 36V customer base. the 36V should be a redesign , and weigh less than the 18V.

[@lifeisgoodskt]

I have the 36 volt Hitachi Triple and the sub compact impact driver and they feel great in the hand and the triple hammer is great, so much smoother at driving regular fasteners. I am a Makita guy but the new 36 volt battery is big but last sooo freaking long. You can build decks for days.

[@danhenderson783]

When used for what’s it’s intended for it is an awesome driver. Ultimate torque tests on a giant bolt isn’t what we use them for.

[@RFC-3514]

Believe it or not, "hammering a stationary bolt" is not something people normally do as part of their job. :-P Skipping one of the hammers at high speed means you get 33% less IPM but (up to) 50% stronger impacts, which can be beneficial in some situations. And worse in others.

[@lifeisgoodskt]

@@RFC-3514 It seems that the engineers created slippage on the hammers for a certain effect. Not everyone wants a fast and heavy vibration Milwaukee. I own it and it's weird and smooth and has strange modes. In them years it will be a cult classic basically.

[@gcoatsjr.8643]

Y'all are the next level!! Thanks for the lesson, doctor. Yes. Dr. TTS. Explaining even I can understand. Nice work, doctors.

[@PhillyFixed]

Regardless of the post-filming discovery that this is actually a "feature" designed into the tool, still very interesting, and also independently confirms the marketing material's claims about the feature. Keep 'em coming!

[@narmale]

so the feature is the ability to warp the screws your driving?

[@owentimo]

Yeah just like a Ford Pinto. The explosion is a feature....Its a design FAILURE.

[@histguy101]

@@narmale If you watch the video referenced, it only did that to the longest stainless steel screws on the market, only on the 36v, and only in P mode. It drove all other large screws and lag screw just fine. It was also a torture test on the gun.

[@stevenlatham4397]

With the high speed camera there’s going to be so much more testing and interesting truths to reveal

[@georgef1176]

Brother this is by far your best video yet. Props to you and thanks for the high speed camera purchase. You seriously saved me money and headache.

[@BigBear--]

Great video! Would love to see more technical stuff like this in the future. Too many channels just do the surface level reviews, and skip the in depth technical looks at the internals, mechanism, design, materials, etc. I love the AvE BOLTR style content.

[@andrewb6]

Semi-destructive testing filmed in super-slo-mo? Yes! More please!

[@TomJones-uf5sl]

This was one of the best made and most informative videos I have ever seen on KZbin! Thank you for going to the expense and trouble of making it. I can see where in larger air driven impacts three hammers might have an advantage, but clearly in smaller tools, the two anvil system seems to have an edge.

[@histguy101]

The triple hammer drives 2-4" screws quite fast

[@trailblazer632]

I'm kinda surprised the Japanese company wouldn't have noticed or even tested this considering its rather new tech for that style impact

[@98erics]

I was thinking the same thing. I guess pioneers of new tech have hiccups from time to time.

[@l00nybin]

"New" tech that has been around for a while.

[@trailblazer632]

@@l00nybin "new tech for that style impact". Hard to be a smartass if you don't read the full comment before trying.

[@lifeisgoodskt]

Ya, or a machine testing torque is not what it is build for. This driver is smooth as butter and I own Makita and Milwaukee too. Imagine a car built for comfort and testing it on jumps. But I can tell no one here uses this beast.

[@l00nybin]

@@lifeisgoodskt there is some validity to the triple hammer making things smoother with less vibration, especially if it's missing every few impacts.

[@Black_noir_mw3]

Really love this style of video, it's one thing to say something sucks, it's another to actually figure out why

[@jesusmorales-yn9vb]

Wow this video is so far the best explained and detailed I’ve seen, thank you for sharing, I love how the impacts work

[@michaelovitch]

Skipping a hit can allow more energy storage for the next hit,since the anvil takes more rotational speed thanks to its increased angular travel ,wich is what you ask for at full power. At reduced trigger demand,you increase hit per minute,but reduces inertia on the anvil,wich is enough to drive small bolts,screws etc... Just an idea,i'm not qualified.

[@KingKong-mp6gj]

In theory yeah but the hammer doesn't skip a hit, it hits the anvil vertically every third hit exerting axial force which in turn deforms the screw in the video. It's basically 2/3 impact driver and 1/3 hammer drill. Would also explain it's lower peak performance.

[@dougfoster445]

That's why it bends the screws.

[@OctavMandru]

@michaelovitch You are correct. Skipping a tooth allows for higher speed of the hammer to be achieved. Higher angular speed translates in higher impact energy at a lower rate. Bending the screws might be caused by the higher energy impact

[@goskidmark]

I LOVE THIS CHANNEL! Thank you for all of the real world data!

[@unknown-ql1fk]

So this hammer has "valve float" like at red line in an ICE engine. I wonder if using 2 springs with different rates would help like done in high rpm engines. Could even be specked and done at home if wanted, just need another smaller spring inside the large spring

[@dazaspc]

A heavier spring would help but reduce its out put power. Think of it like a Syncro in a gearbox. The more teeth on the syncro the slower the gear change and the higher force required for a change. A race gearbox with greatly reduced number of teeth engages faster.

[@dazaspc]

@@banannaninja you know how a syncro works? The friction between the cones gets the gear started then it locks in gear once the teeth have lined up. Fast changing syncro boxes have fewer teeth on the syncros to enable a faster change but occasionaly they wont fully get the gears lined up and they will crunch.. Not all race gearboxes are dog boxes. Straight cut gears are for strength not speed and are not relevant in this argument.. Also a "dual clutch" gearbox is a marketing term it can often mean a gearbox that splits the input drive through separate gear trains so its in every gear all the time just waiting for it own clutch on each gear to go.. Often used on old cnc machines the dual clutch actually means a clutch on each gear and the clutch logic is handled externally.

[@unknown-ql1fk]

@@banannaninja cool stuff. I love cross-over tech like how a problem is solved in 1 application translated to another

[@morganspencer-churchill2136]

@@banannaninja Strangely still worse than the Milwaukee 18v

[@morganspencer-churchill2136]

@@banannaninja Thats the idea, but its useless in fine carpentry or joinery. 18v and higher impacts are unusably overpowered. 12 or 10.8v is the way to go.

[@J.Wick.]

Wonderful content, as always! I'm admittedly a big Metabo HPT/Hikoki fan, as well as a fan of their Triple Hammer drivers. Seeing this, I really wonder if Hikoki realize that this "forward" movement is wasting power instead of adding. The "P" Mode for Power, is supposed to skip as I take it, in order to provide a larger, more signifcant strike providing...more power. And if it weren't for the wasted action of forward thrusting, I could see that happening. I do find it surprising that a Japanese domestic company has overlooked something like this, but of course anything is possible. This model is from the Hitachi days, towards the end. There's alot going on here lol. Perhaps Hikoki's biggest domestic competitor, Makita has figured this out with their new 40V DST Driver. It's very possible they may have uncovered something similar in breakdown and testing of competitor drivers. All very interesting to say the least! I have already tried the new Hikoki, and it's great. I will also be recieving one next week hopefully, from Metabo HPT ACTUAL, for testing, and review. I'll have to look into this "skipping" action bigtime now! Thanks guys! Hope the Kobalts made it safely! Video should certainly not be removed. Though I do agree with you in changing the Title from the original.

[@1979utuber]

I hope they figure it out but I still am a metabo fan and their equipment has never let me down and for the price I'm extremely happy.

[@aussiehardwood6196]

I also learned for every frame per second in camera equipment it costs about $1 per frame. 8000fps=$8000. But I am sure this kit will be used in many videos to come and provides us with unique insight. I love the TTC.

[@paedahe4975]

Whoah.

[@RFC-3514]

There is no direct connection between the number of frames per second and the cost of a camera, because different cameras have vastly different specifications (the main ones being sensitivity - i.e., how much light they need - and resolution). A camera that can do 5000 fps at 2k resolution is going to cost a lot more than one that can do 5000 fps at 240p.

[@kmaggard56]

untrue lol

[@deefer305]

This explains what I have been seeing in many test reviews, well done and I hope Hikoki take care of this problem and credit you for this discovery...

[@dl950]

I think it’s intentionally designed to skip, as it builds momentum when hitting the next ‘dog?’ Which applies additional radial force at higher torque

[@MetroTubettaja]

Thank you for this! I own the 18v version and hawve always wondered why it sucks for taking of lug nuts compared to my dads old 12v makita impact driver. I knew it had something to do with the triple hammer, but didn't expect this.

[@paedahe4975]

No wonder I was getting warped screws. This explains a lot. I first thought that my screws were warping from heat. I will now only use the triple hammer on screws I don’t ever plan to reuse. This review has been more helpful that I can express. 👍

[@DUKE_of_RAMBLE]

I'm having a dumb moment... (or maybe it's because I don't own one) _How_ does this explain the warping of screws? Or is it the half-trigger power doing it, from the hammer hitting 1:1 instead of 1.5:1? Thanks

[@paedahe4975]

@@DUKE_of_RAMBLE I’m thinking that the way that the hammer momentarily sits on top then slides into position mixed with the variable rpm’s within a ten second or so time frame, vibrates the metal in a fashion that changes the metal on a molecular level from an odd phenomenon in regards to vibrations.

[@paedahe4975]

@@DUKE_of_RAMBLE I think the warping happens at full speed, and the odd vibrations from the design is halfway liquefying the metal through science. Vibrations can liquify solids if at the correct frequency. It just so happens that these triple hammers are causing a frequency that is doing something close to that due to the design.

[@DUKE_of_RAMBLE]

@@paedahe4975 Oh. If I had to guess, it's simply that the screws aren't as hard of metal, and were twisting from the torque. However, if you have another, different brand driver, that has equal (or more) torque, but *doesn't* cause the screws to twist on the same batch of screws, then you may be on to something! 🤔

[@DUKE_of_RAMBLE]

@@paedahe4975 They'd be red hot if they were experiencing that. However, I think you're talking about "Liquifaction", which is much different. That's where, say an Earthquake, causes a building to sink into the terrain. Dry sand and a speaker can demonstrate that. There's no heat involved, but _does_ require the material be made up of a non-solid material, like sand is. Plenty of friction to make it "solid" under normal conditions, but insert that vibrational frequency and it acts like a liquid.

[@bobflannagan7262]

fine video! Never hoped to see it "at work", this was so cool. Thanks.

[@calvinbarnes1721]

I have to wonder how well this would work on rusted or stripped fasteners. The forward impacts would serve to seat the bit and shock the rust bonding. Might be an unintentional bonus.

[@jakechef994]

great info TTC I have many 18v and 36v metabo hpt tools and ive never felt the 18v impact driver to not be enough for my needs, the 18v grinder and a few of the other 18v tools seem underpowered compared to the 36v line but I've never thought of needing a 36v impact driver, thanks to your dyno I now know it's not worth the minimal gains 👍

[@doug667]

Very impressive and convincing analysis, thank you!

[@MathieuPrevot]

With 3 hammers rather than 2, you have 3/2 times more many chocs for the same speed, but the energy for 1 round is the same, so the energy per choc is 2/3 times the one with 2 hammers. So, the 3 hammers design allows more frequent hits but also lighters ones. This is an impact driver that is more gentle for the bits.

[@LilFoxAK]

biiiig props on TTC for droppin the beans!!! now for the show down we been waiting for. take two equally rated impacts, one pneumatic and one cordless and see that slow mo difference

[@Joethetoolguy]

That’s it! I don’t even want it anymore. Straight to the 🗑

[@eugenew6717]

Cut it up

[@pewpeww556]

Sounds like Metabo made 1/4 rotary hammer drill!

[@lolatmyage]

Knew I would eventually have a use for those 1/4" hex shank masonry bits!!

[@lexel90]

nope not Metabo, but Hitachi the branding is just a stupid clusterfuck since the gone away from Htachi branding Hikoki and Metabo HitachiPowerTools are the same and just the former Hitachi with a new name depending on market Metabo without any suffix is a different company with different tools in their lineup useing different batteries and designs but the clusterfuck doesn´t end there, Hitachi Koki bought Metabo before the nameing change but isn´t part of Hitachi itself anymore some us based investor is the owner of now Hitachi Power Tools now so so the japanese company bought a german company in the same field and belongs now to an us based investor and while both companies still compete in the same field with different designs it´s possible to buy a tool from the japanese company thats useing the name of the german company in for instance the us damn i hate this stupid rebranding

[@frazierwillard9316]

I've seen plenty of rendered videos but this is pretty cool.

[@LIE4ME]

Yes make the impact 3-d animation video please. Fyi: I'd already subscribed before the final part because of the due diligence and the curious nature on display.

[@marktaraski277]

Earned a Sub! I like the numbers and the cutout, thank you!

[@DerFledderer]

I have not expected this! Crazy! I'm eager to see a air impact wrench working!

[@Tool_Addicted_Carpenter]

I got the 5 piece Metabo set with two 5AH batteries at Lowes on sale from $350 to $103 last week. My tool repair man advised against them based on internal components but you can't turn down that price even if they die. I used the impact, drill, and skilsaw to put together one of those crazy $4,500 swingsets with so many parts it would test any good man's patience. Sank probably 500 1 1/2-3" screws, 75 5/16×3 1/2" lags, predrilled 1/8-3/8" holes, tightened dozens of 5/16-3/8" bolts, cut a few 4x4s and some 1x3s, and they were great tools with almost too much power for cedar, and the batteries ended the 10 hr day with 2 and 3 out of 4 bars left. After seeing this I just went outside and tested the 18v metabo with 5.0 battery against the m18 fuel with 5.0 battery and dewalt 887 with the power stack using 6" simpson structural screws. The metabo barely lost to the m18 and blew the 887 away. My 887 has some serious miles on it from 6-7 years of abuse and 2 times being left in the rain so that's not the best reference for its capabilities but anyway I did notice the skip on the triple hammer and it still felt damn smooth and sent the lag no problem. I'll post head to heads if anyone cares but this video was extremely in depth and informative so it would be somewhat redundant for me to do that unless people were interested in refrencing practical Carpentry applications.

[@Tool_Addicted_Carpenter]

@@johncoops6897 All brushless impact, hammerdrill, skilsaw, sawzall, light, 2 2.5/5.0 multivolt batteries, and a charger. Was on sale for a month from $350 to $206 but there wasn't any on the shelf and then I found one in a random aisle covered in other stuff and when I took it off it had a $103 price tag on it. I used my Lowes card which is 5% off every purchase so basically covers sales tax and I got the kit for $104.

[@ManCaverTools]

Like I said in a video a while back, that triple hammer seems to be restricting the tool. not enough time in between impacts to build enough momentum and it skips a lot because of that

[@RFC-3514]

It only skips at the highest power settings. And, by skipping, that gives it twice as long to speed up, which means stronger impacts. That can be beneficial in some (though not all) situations.

[@Troyvidihoo]

Love high speed videos. This confirms what I suspected could be happening with two lobe designs already. But we don't see this drop in performance much so I assume I am wrong this happens with the common two lobe design. Still seems to me though a one lobe design would allow twice the momentum buildup and ensure spring return more reliably. I assume greater bearing and shaft stress is why I have yet to see this. Anyone remember years back they had emergency impact drivers you plugged in to the 12v lighter outlet? It would build up for 20 seconds and then give a single super hard hit to break loose lugnuts. I would love to see a cut open view of that working and how that compares on your dyno. Appreciate your vids for sure!

[@cokeguy133]

Congrats on the high-speed camera purchase. Can't wait to see more if it.

[@gregkimura5906]

Wow, I wouldn't have expected this. Great job!

[@volvo09]

Man, great work! I already had the old version of this (the standard 2 hammer) and I got this one as a part of a kit on clearance for $120 with a hammer drill (what I really wanted) and 2 new batteries + charger. I'll keep the power down on tight fasteners.

[@zayas6999]

Another great video here. Thanks for the cool content. Love this channel!

[@KevinPGA]

Amazing video. Thank you for taking it to the next level and beyond!!!

[@jefferzzz9349]

Cool video man, I really enjoy watching all your videos

[@mrfordman9999]

This is a prime example of adding more power without thoroughly vetting the rest of the drivetrain. We see this in automotive applications all the time where are you at a whole bunch of power or beans to an engine and you know your transmission will physically stay together with that much power but your clutch is not designed to handle that much power or your torque converter is not capable of completely Translating that power into movement. Very very interesting really cool of you guys to post this stuff up

[@tommymohlen8919]

Learn something new every day. Science, love to see it! I personally think it is pretty cool, thanks for showing us 🍻

[@robertfrate9738]

Hi, very interesting and educational, it’s always good to try and improve any tool, this triple hammer is not necessary, manufacturers should just keep the original design it works awesome, excellent demonstration ty,

[@rpavlik1]

Really interesting to see, thanks for cutting it open and getting the high speed. I'd love to see more high speed footage.

[@Marc_Wolfe]

Try taking some weight off the anvil then do the high speed. Basically lathe the back off up to where that groove is from you taking the angle grinder to it. Already butchered it, use it to demonstrate tuning; show where it gets better and at what point it gets worse. I think it's content worth watching anyway.

[@climaxhubbard]

This is some incredible content. Thank you!

[@jonathansherwood5841]

Seems almost like it was purpose-built for light to medium duty work... On the plus side, they got the bam down! The whack and slap need more work, though. Good job, really an enjoyable episode! 🐺🐺

[@jackfletcher5351]

Yes, I would like to see you take apart all those power tools. It would be great to compare all the brands .. : . ) 👍👌

[@briangray6372]

BEST Video yet! thanks for the information. too bad you can't drop in a 2 anvil setup in to see if it gets better than the M18

[@xXTECHxKNIGHTXx]

Seeing how the internals worked was awesome!

[@JoeJ-8282]

I would also love to see a video showing animation of how these types of tools operate in slow motion, just to get a better undersranding of it, so if/when you guys do that video, I will watch it... Subscription added.

[@Mikej1592]

this was a fantastic video, very detailed, I want to see every power tool demo'd like this. I am in the market for a new cordless drill/driver, one with an adjustable torque setting like my Hitachi that I dropped. Besides the duct tape holding the battery in, the fact they don't hold a charge nearly as long as they did when new a few years ago I am ready for an upgrade from 18 volts. I loved how the Hitachi performed and will likely buy another but if there was a better one out there I might consider it. Looking forward to more of your vids.

[@shubinternet]

Definitely need more slo-mo footage! Maybe you could talk to the Slo-Mo guys on the Slo-Mo channel and get some advice from them?

[@baseballdude8491]

I have Metabo HPT' triple Hammers and their 2 dogs hammer drills These impact drivers are not meant to be used for large lag bolts their are used to drive deck screw and other fasteners in which the triple hammer far exceed the control of my Milwaukee and even my Makita's Torque tests aren't the best test for impact driver quality/function Impact wrenches r great for those test I love the triple hammer and so do almost everyone who has tried them

[@d.a.9937]

Exactly. 👊 I own the Fuel 2853 (power) and the HPT 36v (control/ergonomics), but my favorite for speed-control and ergonomics is the HPT sub-compact (WH18DDX). I use it every day, and by-far more than the others.

[@baseballdude8491]

@@d.a.9937 Yep that's why I own so many different tools and colors cuz different tools work better for certain tasks I reach for the Triple hammer for most screws and smaller lags and metal roofing screws Control is most important to me and the Metabo HPT is faster or as fast in most of those applications to my Milwaukees-more torque isn't what I'm looking for when driving large lags-I choose a impact wrench and even a clutched Hammer Drill for those

[@jozsefizsak]

Great investigation. I'm impressed as well as grateful.

[@hopelessnerd6677]

Pretty cool! The three hammer models probably don't wear out as fast, and might allow them to use cheaper materials. It doesn't give the parts enough time to move, though. Very helpful video.

[@thepiedish903]

Other than this being a cool video. You blew my mind when you broke down the slow motion time.

[@Fekillix]

Are you guys planning on testing the new Makita dual spring impact driver that Tools and Stuff looked at?

[@memphis6694]

I truly tip my hat to this video. This was so informative.

[@androidken]

This isn't *just* this impact. You can hear the hammers in other impacts skipping hits like this when things are really tight...Just ask MCT... It happens quite often when he tests impacts. But it's nice to actually visualize it. Thank you for this video. VERY COOL!

[@androidken]

Here's one where DeWalt skips: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIfYipSFarJ6brs

[@jwelsh1238]

Cool! Good find. Love the slo-mo footage!

[@mauerbach58844]

Thanks for the great video !! I think there might be some element or safety feature as well at play here, In the 80’s corded drills had a habit of twisting out of the operators hand which resulted in a fractured or sprained wrist not to mention the drill flying out of your hand further creating potential damage to the project or people standing or working close by. I have these as well as makita and dewalt. For the utmost in reliability Makita wins it hands down so far me. Love the color and design of the Metabo

[@BLASTIC0]

I want my “Bam, Wack, Slap” T-Shirt!

[@TsunauticusIV]

Full beans! Too 😂

[@mcjok88]

Excellent. Informative. Yes on further in-depth testing. Thanks

[@jimsiggy]

After watchig you and project farm, I'm pretty sure my next tool purchase will be Milwaukee; all in all, they seem to be the best but still reasonably priced.

[@Name-vu1kn]

I have to imagine they found this flaw while trying to develop this tool but decided the marketing value of a triple hammer was more than that of a tool that actually preforms as it should. That is why you find the 1.5 value online. It also makes sense that this works on bigger guns because they can overcome the higher spring pressure with lower gear ratios and more speed. Overall I would really love to be a fly on the wall at big tool companies when a KZbin channel keeps them honest.

[@cbmech2563]

You may have covered this before but, I've run into situations where a Milwaukee m18 wouldn't finish taking a lock nut or badly rusted nut off a bolt but my nitrocat took it off without any issues. Are battery/electric impacts more susceptible to movement in the fastener like an air ratchet is?

[@wigsplitter830]

i believe they cheaped out on the parts as the tool got later in the production run i had some of the original triple hammer impacts when they were still just Hitachi and they were absolute beasts but my work trailer got broke into years later so I had to replace them and the newer ones performed like garbage and I couldn't figure out why

[@westla3074]

Another great video. Next time you film at high speed video can you put a reference dot to visually see the rotations.

[@jacksmith2315]

Keep the vid up, its good info. I think this may be a better feature for a 3/8 or 1/2 impact wrench than 1/4 driver. Since you cut into it anyways, it would be cool to modify the dogs and anvils to see if you can get more power from it. Like you mentioned a more powerful spring, test that. Then with the facotry spring grind off one of the dogs, test it, then test it with the more powerful spring. then grind off one on the anvil side, test it with the factoryspring, then test with the other spring, then grind off another dog or anvil side. I think this would make a great video. You know....for science haha

[@alexmills1329]

It definitely sounds like the triple hammer harms the tool more than any marketing it might gain from it. That doesn’t seem like it would last very long throwing the collet forward doesn’t seem like it would be very good for it popping buts in and out multiple times a second.

[@archiethedog4515]

I got the older Hitachi branded impact driver of this and I love it.

[@joe1569]

Outstanding engineering evaluation

[@MrSpeakerCone]

So cool to see the mechanism working! Looks to me like the high power mode allows the hammer to spin up to faster speeds before impacting the anvil, generating more force per strike. Is it possible that your dynamometer is giving weird readings due to the time between strikes being greater than the time window it uses to average out its measurements?

[@TorqueTestChannel]

Nah, we're used to measuring slower IPM than this. Air tools for instance have 1/4 the IPM and still show well on the curve.

[@iloveknives75]

😂😂😂 It’s so funny… me and my buddy were just running my 18v vs his 36v using the 4ah multivolt battery and the 18v was beating the 36v slightly running lag bolts. We were trying to see if running what’s essentially an 8ah battery on my 18v vs 4ah on his 36v made a difference. It did by like .3 seconds, lol. But we were talking about what he thought was a power drop when running it. Thanks for the perfect explanation 😬

[@johndehaan2764]

It is obvious that the intended use of the impact driver is based upon its use to application. The foot torque requirement was based on what it is mostly used for so that the life of the battery can extend its life.

[@louiewiessv5756]

You can see the bit calet moving up and down when it mangles the first screw in the video. Just ever so slightly proving forward thrust on the screw as it’s driving. Looks like valve float from weak spring also.

[@Garrett.]

Would be interesting to see if you could mod that out of the gun to test if you gain power even though it might be intentional.

[@jessevanderhamm]

Dude this video is brilliant! Of course, it’s Utterly devastating to metabo, someone is definitely going to get fired lol but that’s not your fault. I thank you for the sacrifices you made to create this video. I wish I had money to give you because I totally would give you some.

[@ihateeverything3972]

Looking forward to that custom design tool you're doing. Good luck on that man, can't be too easy but I bet it's gonna be fuckin cool.

[@oldtimefarmboy617]

More lugs means the hammer has less time ti build up momentum before it hits the dogs. It is the momentum that comes from speed that allows it to hit harder and do more work.

[@tinytoons2517]

It seems Metabo have a lot of explaining to do . . . great work keep it up !

[@markburkey6371]

Please do this to the m18 1/2 inch! I feel mine and others do this on really really tight bolts and I want to see it happen!

[@mediumgrey8674]

My milwaukee fuel also skips a beat on certain fasteners. Too many ipm? The collet also drops bits. Actually kinda dangerous.

[@reaperreaper5098]

Every impact driver does it to an extent, the collet thing might just be an issue with the collet though. I know Milwaukee revised the 3rd gen fuels for that.

[@truthserum9157]

@@reaperreaper5098 - yep, gen 3 has been corrected from what I can see, but you can change it out your self on the older models.

[@austinmarshek3321]

Hi TTC, big fan. I was scrolling through Home Depot's website and I saw that Milwaukee makes a m12 1/2 stubby 2555-20. I would love to see that matched up with the 3/8 2554-20.

[@siriosstar4789]

A brilliant video . Clear concise and very revealing .

[@itsatoolthing6323]

I wonder if that is what I'm feeling when I use my m18 high torque and m18 mid torque (note the old version) it sounds and feels wrong on stupid tight bolt?

[@JoeJ-8282]

The designers didn't get the timing right on the RESONANCE frequency of the dogs hitting the hammer, (or vice versa?), during the higher speeds. Very interesting. The designers should look into how to improve this!

[@vuurstergaming]

Could you guys also review some metabo tools, (the German metabo, not hpt which is just Hitachi)

[@MXvsATV144]

Metabo Might be worse on the torque reading but man after using them for a straight hour, they ran much cooler doing the same job when I used a new Bosch impactor with 8.0ah battery… the Bosch would burn your hand at the metal just by the chuck… and I had power loss/weird sounds with the Bosch when they got hot

[@aamiryousufzai4516]

Wonder if that collet action has something to do with their refusal to introduce a quick change collet, even on the new updated model

[@08yannch]

Video idea, Does re-greasing impact drivers improve performance. I just re-greased my Milwaukie m18 gen3 impact and I swear its hitting substantially harder. I never service my drills but a few times now my impact driver has lost some grease out the front when I run it hard. So I thought I would put some fresh grease in, who knows it might make the tool last longer. I cleaned it up and put in some moly grease. I just tested it on some screws in wood and it feels like its hitting 20% harder.

[@nathanwest2304]

can you drive 8x600mm bolts with an impact? if so, what size of an impact should I use? my cordless drill can handle them, but that's no fun when you're standing on a ladder and the drill is trying to push you down.