TOSEVEN DM02 installation and first test ride! CYC Photon Removal and discussion.

This video looks first at the removal of the CYC Photon mid drive and its replacement with the new DM02 from TOSEVEN motor. Ran into a potential issue with one of the bearings on the CYC Photon. Overall the install for the DM02 was pretty straightforward. There are a few issues that could use work including cable lengths and crank offset. The test ride was cut very short due to a firmware bug which I will need a programming cable to resolve. More to come when its back on the road.
Timestamps
0:00 - Introduction
0:41 - Uneven rotation on Photon cranks
1:22 - ROGOV battery bag
1:55 - Left crank arm loose
2:38 - Bottom bracket not smooth
3:14 - Looks like a bearing issue
3:42 - The bearing is not moving well
4:33 - Overall its in good shape
5:22 - DM02 and Photon Side by side
5:49 - DMO2 vs Photon motor positioning
6:15 - DMO2 Motor Positioning
7:58 - Speed sensor wiring
8:37 - Chain Ring and cranks
9:04 - Chain line
10:16 - Chainring lockring
10:44 - Crankarm spacing
11:43 - Speed sensor configuration
12:31 - The wires are too long
13:29 - Here she is
14:08 - Test Ride
16:30 - Work to be done
18:01 - Thanks for watching
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/ @highvoltagekits

[@philflip1963]

Your video of the test ride shows DM01 when you said you were fitting a 500W DM02 at the beginning of the video. Thanks for the review.

[@HighVoltageKits]

Nice catch. I messed up. Its definitely the 02!!! Cheers

[@EVGizmo]

Always lovely to see another bike build and this one was quick and easy :)

[@HighVoltageKits]

Yeah just a quick motor swap. Back at it again tomorrow.

[@lukewalker1051]

Great update. Motor seems encouraging after the initial debugging phase. Thank you for your hard work.

[@HighVoltageKits]

Yeah although not long to play with them really. Just 2.6kms. I have more on the 01 now.

[@dennisvoltaire1146]

Another excellent review!

[@HighVoltageKits]

Thanks Dennis

[@ianbourne4084]

Very curious to see your disassembly vid, if you get around to it, and to know whether the 02 motor does thermal throttling and how it goes in general.

[@HighVoltageKits]

It's supposed to throttle. Right now it's locked in a safe mode and I need a program cable. I will update more as soon as it runs again! I'll try the 01 in the meantime.

[@user-zg5zi5uy9s]

Thank you for your informative video. I also have CYC PHOTON installed and using it. But, trying to remove the crank with a crank puller doesn't work. (Shaft is hollow and cannot be pushed out.) What crank puller did you use to remove the drive side crank? (How did you remove it, specifically?)

[@HighVoltageKits]

I'm using a crank puller still. It has two ends that can be swapped. The wider end catches the edges of that hollow and pushes against the axle. It is a park tool one I think. www.amazon.ca/Park-Tool-Compact-Crank-Puller/dp/B0028YUZSS This is the one.

[@user-zg5zi5uy9s]

@@HighVoltageKits Thank you for the advice! I used a clamp puller specifically for square tapers...

[@bobkrueger194]

Thanks for the video. I was going to do a Photon until I started seeing issues pop up. I wonder if there are just too fast to market.

[@HighVoltageKits]

I'm not sure how many people put of total motors are having issues.

[@JohnSmith-ch9lp]

Interesting video, thank you. Interesting to see how it compares with a Tongsheng as the ToSeven designers are from Tongsheng or so I believe.

[@HighVoltageKits]

Yes. I will be taking it apart while I wait for the program cable so it should be easier to make the comparison

[@JohnSmith-ch9lp]

@@HighVoltageKits Thanks 👍

[@pischke55]

I just did a photon install and noticed the left side bearing wasn’t smooth as delivered. Thought things were just a bit tight and would loosen a bit with use. Maybe not, based on your disassembly. Have to keep an eye on it. Looking forward to hearing if you find out more in your investigation.

[@HighVoltageKits]

Thanks for the comment. I wish I had checked the bearing more thoroughly when I first put it on. Some are saying that I loaded it with the spacer. But it gets locked in place before the spacers go on so not sure how you can load anything when it's on a fixed object. Let me know how you get on.

[@pischke55]

@@HighVoltageKits For me, it felt tight out of the box, before the spacer even got near it, so at least for my situation, I don't think that was the cause. I may pull it apart later this week to have a look

[@hindesite]

My Photon also has slight uneven resistance when backpedalling, I had thought it was likely due to being new, and might have been the large Spragg clutch.

[@HighVoltageKits]

I need to post the question on the forum and see what people say. It did not affect the riding. Might have been me overtightening the lock ring or even pressed in badly at the factory. I think it should move much more freely.

[@hindesite]

@HighVoltageKits mine was slight, barely discernable but was there before properly fitting to frame, I'm confident it was as shipped. I don't think it is due to anything either of us may have done.

[@elmbow]

Where did you source that blue spacer that fits between motor and downtime? I just installed mine and with shift cable running under bottom bracket I needed to fabricate a spacer and it is kind of Mickey Mouse. Your spacer looks perfect.

[@HighVoltageKits]

I 3D printed it. If you email me on [e-mail] I’ll make you one for postage.

[@hindesite]

What diameter is the casing behind the chainring, excluding the lugs that protrude around it? Also, can you measure the chainline? What is the Q factor (it looks HUGE), and how asymmetrical is it?

[@HighVoltageKits]

The Q factor must be more than the Photon. It does not need to be tho. The one crank is way over offset which makes it asymmetrical. I'll try and post the chainline. I think straight hits the 4th smallest gear of 10. I'll put photos on discord when I take it off. I need a working bike 😆

[@hindesite]

@HighVoltageKits probably safe to assume chainline is distance from centre of chainring teeth to seat tube + 1/2 seat tube diameter unless the bike is asymmetrical.

[@Alex-uh1mj]

​​@@hindesitechainline is 50mm with that chainring

[@space.youtube]

You've loaded up the bearing on the non drive side by adding too big a spacer. That's why your crank arm didn't achieve an interference fit on the spline. Also, you may have over tightened the threaded locking collar, damaging the bearing. It's a user fitting error, not a bearing fault. Those bearings aren't designed to resist lateral strain. You're lucky you didn't completely destroyed the spline in the process, though you may have damaged the crank arm if it's a softer alloy than the crank spindle. I'm surprised someone who has fitted so many mid drive motors would make such a mistake, and not noticed during the fitting process. This serves as a lesson to all, to check and recheck, and not let enthusiasm to ride be the cause of an avoidable mistake.

[@ataksnajpera]

That's a CYC fault for no providing clear instructions!

[@space.youtube]

@@ataksnajpera I agree, they should provide clear instructions for a novice, but this issue should be a pretty obvious consideration for anyone else. Which is why they'd (CYC) probably prefer installation be carried out by professionals. With so many frame variations and applications, can you imagine how complex and voluminous an instruction manual capable of covering all installation scenarios would be? It doesn't seem practical, for either the manufacturer or the customer imo. This is a bit of a rookie mistake so some sort of warning should probably exist. Having said that, are you sure CYC's instructions don't mention it? Edit: Just read CYC's Photon installation instructions and they do. Actually their instructions are pretty clear, and if followed should help anyone avoid this issue. Quite honestly, if you can't make sense of their installation instructions you probably have no business attempting this installation.

[@HighVoltageKits]

I am prepared to have caused this. There was no mention of anything in the instructions which were followed to the letter. I tightened the collar and then backed it of till it was smooth and then re checked it. I'm not the only one with this based on comments. I wish I had examined the part closer during assembly. The crank arm went on with the correct torque but came slightly loose as others have found. After retightening it did not move. This is not something I noticed while riding. So it could be me. It could also be a badly pressed bearing from factory. The instructions require adding spacers until a line is touched which was done to the best of my ability. It's a brand new system with a brand new assembley method not used anywhere else. It will be interesting to see other people's results when they take them apart. If the collar was overnight there would have been significant resistance initially which was not the case. I don't think you can load the bearing because the spacers go on after the locking ring is positioned.

[@jeffchef420]

Vocal fryyyy!

[@space.youtube]

@@HighVoltageKits Just watched your install video, and clearly you've over tightened the lock ring. You can hear the friction in the spindle bearing, and the cranks don't spin unless your finger is pushing them. That's way too tight, the cranks should be much freer. You also over shimmed the gap between the crank arm and the lock ring. The instructions read "Add spindle spacers up to the indicated line." not as you say in your video "...just so you can barely see it". At these tolerances that extra shimming is more than enough to prevent the proper interference fit that secures the crank arm. "I am prepared to have caused this. There was no mention of anything in the instructions which were followed to the letter." ? I'm assuming you're trying to say you're prepared to accept you may have caused the issue, and that you followed the instructions to the letter? I think I've shown where you did not. Lastly, it's hardly surprising that others have the same issue if they've made the same installation errors. Let's hope it had nothing to do with having watched your video. 🤞🏻

[@alank808]

where would I get a speed sensor for my brand new dmo2. I cannot see one listed anywhere. Mine came with one that never worked. Display that came with kit (m 15) didn`t work got a replace one (t24) The new display shows speed sensor failure. Properly installed but no speed registered. Ran unit today for a test but have to restart every 5 min. like running a bafang without speed sensor registering. Two bad components in one kit. What the heck. I have built 50 units with cyc and bafangs with only one bad sensor on a bbso2. This is not promising for me buying another to seven. Any info on me getting another sensor I would appreciate. Thanks Alan

[@HighVoltageKits]

If you bought it from a dealer I would contact them. You are also welcome to post on our dmo2 chat room and get some help that way. I’m sure they will get you a speed sensor. The discord is here discord.gg/high-voltage-light-electric-vehicles-713249006129512448

[@daytriker]

Is there any motor run on when you stop pedaling like BBS02's? Can you manage shifting without the motor cut offs installed or will this result in crunchy gear changes? Is it reasonable to say the DM01 is 500 watts & the DM02 is 750 watts at 48 volts? Thank you.

[@HighVoltageKits]

The 01 is 1000 watts and 750 watts. The 02 is 500 watts at that Voltage.

[@daytriker]

Thanks. What about the motor run on & crunchy shifts?

[@Busabuck100]

Interesting and beautiful area there.

[@HighVoltageKits]

Thanks!

[@MHH3180]

The anti-rotational device IS essential. It is ny biggest concern with The O1. The extra wire can be coiled and ziptied. Run the main up the brake housing at both ends. Itbworks and looks good.

[@HighVoltageKits]

I hear what you are saying. The thing is I have used BBSHDs, the CYC Photon, The 02 and the 01. I could not even use a torque wrench with the TOSEVEN motors. They all show no signs of moving. I used to think the teeth were a requirement in order to prevent rotation like on the Bafang. But in reality they are not coming loose with the flat rings. If I get problems I will be honest and upfront but not found any so far.

[@MHH3180]

@@HighVoltageKits it might be that I have just done so many that some were bound to be a problem.

[@HighVoltageKits]

Potentially. I know that the fit has to be really good. If the bb is slightly imperfect then a flat fit will be impossible and might be hard to see even. With a threaded bb it won't matter but with the pressure contact not being even it could cause problems. I'm sure I'll run into problems eventually.

[@MHH3180]

@@HighVoltageKits fun fact: some frames have such thick, glossy paint jobs that if you don't file the face of the bottom bracket, they'll squeak noayyer how tight you clamp the motor, even with an anti-rotation device.

[@Smegmeister]

the socket is a Park Tols LRT-3

[@Alex-uh1mj]

Are you sure?

[@HighVoltageKits]

Its definitely a Park tool

[@palindar3448]

Did you get the cable to flash it? can you show us how you will flash it. Then looking forward to the ride review.

[@HighVoltageKits]

I do and I will. It's not the greatest process right now and I want it to be refined a bit before I do a video on that. I should have more riding soon from a few places

[@iain.wlaird2275]

I've just bought the DM02 and would like your opinion on using Lekkie OneNut instead using the stock bottom bracket nuts.

[@HighVoltageKits]

I don't think it will work. It's a different pitch on the threads to the bbshd or bbs02

[@Alex-uh1mj]

The lekkie one nut wont fit

[@ataksnajpera]

10:50 - what is the distance between cranks and frame (left and right side) ?

[@HighVoltageKits]

Its a couple of CMs

[@RL-uj7vk]

How does the speed limiter work, does it cut power altogether at the set speed, or does it cradually lower the power?

[@HighVoltageKits]

You can set a speed limit for each power level you have. So up to 8. You could go in increments of 5kph for each one. Anything really. Its pretty flexible in that way. I know they do work. How it works with the power I can't remember. I set them to 70 after five minutes and have not tried it again since. I will have a play though.

[@RL-uj7vk]

@@HighVoltageKits if you test it, let us know. I tried to ask from the manufacturer too, but did not get an answer, at least not yet. I think one of the biggest improvements, when going osf on my tongsheng, was the speed limit not hitting a "wall" when set speed is reached.

[@banksarenotyourfriends]

Sorry I know it's been months since you posted this, but you're the only person I've found that has enough experience to answer my question: I'm considering buying a CYC Photon - other than the price, is there a reason to avoid it?

[@HighVoltageKits]

You have to send them in for repair and servicing and I got less than 1000kms on mine before the hall sensor crapped out. I will do a full comparison with the DM02 shortly here which will answer in more detail some of the questions.

[@banksarenotyourfriends]

​​​​thank you, I've since watched your video regarding the reliability. I'm in the UK and although I don't intend to restrict the wattage to 250W, I do still intend to limit top speed to 15mph so as not to draw any unwanted attention. Do you think your unit was unreliable just because you do a lot of riding at high power? It's such a neat little package, I'm kind of desperate not to write it off but I think I'd be a fool to ignore your experience with it. I agree with everything you said about using customers as beta testers. It would be forgiveable if it was half the price of a Bafang, but for the money you're paying you'd expect the testing to have been completed before releasing it for sale to the customer. Cheers

[@Fire-Man_Dave]

Video #2 that i state you deserve a bike stand... I'm also not a fan of the odd number of notches on all the lock rings, seems to be literally made not to be used by other common tools.

[@HighVoltageKits]

I was given one and it was promptly reclaimed... At least I have floor tiles now so I am not on the cement! I had not counted the notches, not that happy with the choice of the tool.

[@paulf5351]

The the two spots that the crank turns harder may be two poles on the DC motor.

[@HighVoltageKits]

Could be. I'll ask.

[@danmorrison667]

7:20 I would highly recommend fitting that bracket, as without it the motor will be moving back and forth which will loosen the lockring...I actually trashed my first Tongsheng tsdz2 motor by thinking I could get away without fitting it :(

[@HighVoltageKits]

It did not move on the short ride and I can't see a way to make it work with this frame. The larger more powerful 01 does not have it which is why I find it's use on a motor half as powerful intriguing 🤔

[@alanmorgan1389]

Hello @danmorrison667 - when you say your TSDZ2 was trashed (by not fixing the bridge block and bridge fixing plate across the chainstays) - what exactly happened to the motor please? I ask as I have a possible instal where doing without that particular fixing would make life easier.

[@jaylord55]

any clue where to buy one at this point in time

[@HighVoltageKits]

You can make contact on our discord sever and order one direct. You need to talk to Olek. There is a link to join in the description. The dealer network is currently being setup.

[@ddroppelt]

3:46 Not sure if anyone has confirmed: I just got my photon and can confirm that the bearing can be turned by hand just like you do on the chainring side

[@HighVoltageKits]

I am getting mixed reports. Some are stiff out of the box. Some seem to get stiff after use. But apparently if I remove the bearing it will free up again. It's worth a shot.

[@nobrakes7247]

Q Factor is miles out!!

[@HighVoltageKits]

Yeah its not the greatest. Should be an easy fix with the crank arm design though.

[@chucknoob7041]

The Photon is smaller, lighter, more powerful and refined but higher cost. Worth the extra money for the Photon IMO.

[@HighVoltageKits]

I think others will make a similar call. Others will want something a bit cheaper. I can't wait to try it with optimized settings. It needs properly setting up.

[@Alex-uh1mj]

Photon is about 3x the price. So it really depends on the user. For the majority of People who just want a ebike solution to commute etc i think the photon is a bit expensive..

[@ataksnajpera]

@@Alex-uh1mj Agree about photon's price but for lower price you buy something in alpha stage. Software bugs, bad Q factor, too long wires ,programing requires special cable and access to pc and so on...

[@Alex-uh1mj]

@@ataksnajpera do you have one?

[@ataksnajpera]

@@Alex-uh1mj Which one?

[@edmondbaffour3798]

It looks exactly like a tongsheng tsdz2 I hope it's more powerful than that motor

[@ataksnajpera]

500W so it won't be more powerful.

[@edmondbaffour3798]

@@ataksnajpera I'm looking forward to buy the toseven 1000 watt version

[@ataksnajpera]

@@edmondbaffour3798 and so what?

[@HighVoltageKits]

I have one. It's going on since I can't really test this one further until I get a program cable.

[@Alex-uh1mj]

​@@ataksnajperado you have one?

[@nigelnightmare4160]

7:58 The long cable for the speed sensor would be nice for a recumbent trike.

[@HighVoltageKits]

You are quite right. It would be very good. I think that long cables should maybe be an option that is available and not the default.

[@86jogger]

@@HighVoltageKits I would suggest to deliver it with short cables for normal frames and also include (or maybe optional) two different lenght of cable extensions. This way they keep the variants small.

[@chriss2295]

Any confirmation that this is a Tongsheng clone?

[@HighVoltageKits]

The designer of this used to be the main engineer at Tong Shen. That is the story I have been told. It's not surprising that elements are similar in the design. I am not familiar with the Tong Shen but I understand it has a following. Apparently many of the design choices in this motor were to overcome flaws in the Tong Shen design. It's offline until the program cable arrives so if people want to see inside I will try and open it up.

[@Alex-uh1mj]

Its not a tongsheng clone. Can confirm

[@vicamaral]

@@HighVoltageKits Yeah open it up, will make more video's mate.

[@ricksanchez3628]

Controller issues highly suspected

[@Alex-uh1mj]

It's a software bug already patched

[@ricksanchez3628]

@@Alex-uh1mj Seems shoddy to let this firmware out when it does not work

[@Alex-uh1mj]

@@ricksanchez3628 hundreds of motors out. Only 3 suffered any issue from this random bug.. so less than 1% And it was fixed in under 24 hours of being reported as a bug..

[@ricksanchez3628]

@@Alex-uh1mj Impossible to believe it wasn't caught earlier...it's just shoddy

[@Alex-uh1mj]

@@ricksanchez3628 well sorry to tell you but that's a fact and those numbers are pretty good for such a new product but thanks for your input

[@AngusandAndrewfunguys]

Video quality was appalling.

[@HighVoltageKits]

Appreciate the inciteful feedback there, Angus. I'll be sure to give the producer and camera crew a damn good thrashing. 👍

[@nwmetalbug]

I dont think you should have all those shims on the left side. I think you side loaded that bearing and messed it up.

[@HighVoltageKits]

I'm not going to rule it out. Those shims though are on the other side of a threaded locking ring that is tightened onto the axle. That gets secured first which should establish any pressure on the bearing. You could be right. I don't remember checking it during install sadly.

[@nwmetalbug]

@@HighVoltageKits I think thats why that crank arm came off so easy it wasnt able to bottom out on the spline because of the shims. I have a gen 3 stealth and ran into the same issue.

[@hindesite]

No, the shims aren't the issue, the threaded lockring is what sets the bearing preload.

[@nwmetalbug]

@@hindesite it would if you werent trying to tighten the crank arm bolt against the shims and split lockring. either that or he preloaded the bearing before which is also a mistake.

[@hindesite]

@nwmetalbug the threaded locking, once in place is not going to be affected by the crank bolt. It's very secure, on mine I also had to remove a shim just to ensure the splines bottomed out.