Total War Saga: Troy - The Amazons - Girl Power

Total War Saga: Troy returns, as we take a look at the brand new Amazons expansion, featuring a particularly brutal horde faction, a whole lot of cavalry, and some utterly brutal battles...
Total War Saga: Troy - www.epicgames.com/store/en-US...
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Fanfare for Space, Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...

[@MCYonazz]

Jon in this game: "This is not consistent with the source material! How dare you!" Jon in CK3: "This is Owland now. Deal with it."

[@globalincident694]

CK2 is designed to be very historically accurate at the start of the game, but not so much after that point.

[@librarianseth5572]

Ah, the reason we love him

[@Silverhawk100]

This is the guy who renamed most of Bosnia to "Good Dog."

[@librarianseth5572]

@@Silverhawk100 To be fair, it was a VERY good dog...

[@Drunkbritishguy]

It's the British way

[@jameshutton7115]

When Jon is complaining about historical accuracy, I imagine I'm a girl on a couch at a party, and a half pissed Jon is ranting about ancient Athens at me.

[@zjackshot]

Well I have a new fetish

[@dgh0yt]

Publisher: Just make up some stuff to fill in the details. After all, it's not like any historians will play this game. MATN: *Many a True Nerd noises*

[@AiasMaior]

@@dgh0yt *classicists... there's a difference ;)

[@sharkofjoy]

Depends on how bad the party is and whether Jon is as interesting there as he is in the videos. I would probably give him a listen. I'd almost definitely remember to play the game!

[@francinemcloughlin6096]

I think the whole horse riding horde thing may be because they were probably Scythians, which did have settlements in northern Anatolia, were a horse riding steppe people, and had equal numbers of men and women warriors, so the Greeks probably just embellished it to be all women since having female Warriors was the craziest thing ever to them.

[@ManyATrueNerd]

Yep - the extremely limited anecdotal evidence in various geographical accounts of Themiscyra do include mentions of cavalry, though it's pretty hard to be certain about anything.

[@randomsandwichian]

Athens: Warriors are masculine as f- *Sees one tomboyish woman in Asia Minor shoot some animal down on horse back* Athens, banging their horde crock: WARRIOR WOMEN, THERE'S WARRIAR WEMANS!!! GAAAH!!!

[@noahhamilton9004]

@@randomsandwichian With their exploding wigs of death!

[@theirishviking9278]

@@randomsandwichian "Athens: Warriors are masculine as f-" ironic for the city named for the female god of war

[@METALFREAK03]

Pretty sure the Lampsacins had women warriors and they were Greek (although leant towards Persia).

[@oneofmanyjames-es1643]

Time for "My Degree is Finally Useful!" with Jon the Classicist :p

[@mrmarmellow555]

So FUNNY RIGHT NOW!! Until he starts the RAMPAGE!! THAT! HE TURNZ in2 Ancient MR. T. ( togoing back in time to how help the 11x GREAT GRANMOTHER OF GENGHIS Khan WIT Fighting Without MERCY...OR HONOUR!!!..... PS..Ares Suckz ...JUPITER IS THE DA' BOSS of HONOURABLE COMBATT!!

[@Luca-sl7tb]

The backstory for the Amazons in Troy is based on CA's own personal take on the myths. Basically Themiscyra's destruction is based on the tales of Hercules and Theseus that in their stories have met and fought the Amazons (and in Troy these events are reinterpreted as a military raid by Achaeans on Themiscyra), Athens is considered a main rival for the Amazons because Theseus was the first king and founder of Athens and CA also wanted to mix the Trojan War with the Amazonomachy, another myth that was about the legendary war between Athens and the Amazons which was also tied with Theseus marriage with either Hippolyta or Antiope (the myths have various versions). Furthermore Troy references all four of the big named Amazons from the myths (Penthesilea, Hippolyta, Antiope and Melanippe) by making Antiope the old queen of Themiscyra that in this version is killed by Greek adventurers in CA's reinterpretations of the adventures of Hercules and marriage with Theseus (which ends in more or less tragic ways depending on the myths as far as I know), Hippolyta is depicted as quite old since in the myth she is supposed to belong to the previous generation (like Priam she lived in the period Hercules was around), Melanippe in this was the original name of Penthesilea before the destruction of Themiscyra led her to swear revenge on the Greek world and took on a new name (that according to CA means "full of grief" or something like that, I'm not sure if this is accurate), so CA has fused the two figures into one. CA has basically reinterpreted the myths in their own way to fit Troy's story, which is quite cool for me since the Greeks were the first ones who didn't have an agreed canon for their myths and many authors liked to come up with their own personal versions of events.

[@nopenoperton5448]

Yeah, the penthes- in the name comes from Greek penthos which means grief or sorrow.

[@Halorulez24]

I absolutely love your history rants.

[@furioussherman7265]

More like a mythology rant in this case.

[@terry7567]

AGREED

[@sharkofjoy]

"Turn your brains off, let's enjoy Amazons go smash." That's all I ask for.

[@GoErikTheRed]

29:50 charges straight into the rear of his own troops, overlapping on both sides. "Kinda into the back of these guys here." Jon. You literally could not have launched a more frontal charge if you tried

[@thelogannator]

Now here's the question, is Odyssues' faction immune to the sirens call?

[@j2dragon109]

If they have ear pulgs in, then yes.

[@MadTurnip]

Now here are some intelligent comments, nice!

[@LiveLNXgaming]

With all the talk of fallout here, I was just thinking how much I would love a long form Total War letsplay too if it sounds like something that would work for you and your channel. I know you love the games and I remember watching your Rome and Medieval 2 long plays and they were wonderful.

[@CH-ml4rz]

I am seething at the thought of a TW Warhammer 3 series next year. Or whenever the release is.

[@MWSin1]

Enslaving the populace gets you more resources because you have more people on hand to carry stuff off.

[@SignumInterriti]

"Hippolyta is too old but also is from a previous generation" is contradictory. Sons and grandsons of Herakles are fighting in the Illiad, so if Hippolyta had survived, she could concievably be around this age at that point.

[@oyblech8671]

jon playing a total war version of basically ancient greek porn? bloody hades, this'll be good

[@akuanarx]

I think the Total War team missed a perfect opportunity. They where doing a classical era game, already had a working relationship with Jon, and didn't invite him to do a consultation or contract him to work on it.

[@MyGamingBacklog]

I feel like Total War's PRIME time is coming to an end, but it's nice to finally see an AMAZON VIDEO. Thank you for the quick DELIVERY! Okay, I'll see myself out now...

[@CH-ml4rz]

Oof

[@Next0gen0]

"Ares is on our side." After all the God of War and DC Wonder Women I've ingested over the years, that feels so weird to hear playing as Amazons.

[@globalincident694]

Well wonder women were the amazons

[@BinkyTheElf1]

Ares is the Greek god of war. Aries is the constellation/ horoscope sign.

[@Next0gen0]

@@BinkyTheElf1 You can see how that's easily confused.

[@j2dragon109]

@@globalincident694 Wonder Woman dosen't exactly have the best relationship with Ares.

[@furioussherman7265]

You'd think the Amazons would say "Athena is on our side" because she was the goddess of warfare. In fact, it always seems weird when Amazons pray to male gods after how many times I saw Wonder Woman beseech Hera in the Justice League cartoon.

[@aerialace4625]

Isn't Penthesilea's backstory (At least in the Posthomerica) that she accidentally killed Hippolyta (Another Pre-Trojan War death) & goes to fight at Troy because she has a death wish? Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not an expert by any means.

[@ManyATrueNerd]

Yep - like most ancient heroes, there are multiple versions of her story.

[@aerialace4625]

@@ManyATrueNerd Oh I know, I'm a comic book fan so I'm used to multiple versions of stories & characters. Just want to add I'm a new subscriber, thanks for all the content & effort!

[@ryanpenner9950]

I love how in a one hour video Jon already has triple gold chevron mega slingers

[@orrinscott-stewart3641]

According to Wonder Woman Hyppolyta is Immortal :)

[@ties__5593]

Oohhh, looking forward to this :D I love how you just turn full on history person on the game haha

[@codo820]

"These guys are brilliant and I love them" Oh Jon, you've already succumbed...

[@abc68130]

Jon: plays a faction of women Jon: "Yeah, I'll take your wood, sure."

[@aliqzakry834]

Also Jon: I've got no wood, and I've got no wood coming in...

[@legion999]

Was that supposed to be a joke? "HahaHAHA WOOD! MY SIDES! DO YOU GET IT?!"

[@kevblr15]

@@legion999 Let people enjoy things and have fun with life

[@misssniperella]

when I heard Jon said "Lets talk about..." I immediately though he waa going to finish with " ... all the things that Jon got wrong!"

[@Smi7h1sH3r3]

i love Jon fact checking Greek classics. fake news. ^_^

[@gamesretweets9979]

Hell hath no fury than a Classics graduate.

[@TheGwydion777]

If it ever existed, it was probably destroyed, because there's no evidence it ever existed. That's archaeology in a nutshell. :D

[@TheMonkeystick]

75 charge bonus on those axewomen in the end there, gives me Atilla shock infantry flashbacks lol

[@notapplicable7292]

That looked like a load of fun

[@saltysatan4299]

We need a full hour and a half classical history lecture from Prof. Jon.

[@andergustafson6664]

This is actually the earliest I've ever been

[@RowanB6]

Is it just me, or did Jon misread Penthesilea's blurb? I don't see any mention of Athens whatsoever.

[@Old-Toby]

I cant Wait till this Comes out on Steam

[@Skrall_]

sweet, i was hoping to see another series like total war rome you did a few years ago, CK3 didnt scratch that itch but this should do.

[@gregconen]

The blood oath thing is very similar to how Greenskins work in Warhammer 2, now.

[@thfab4831]

Does this game have the problem that enemies just keep chasing horde factions like in Atilla? That game gave me the habit to always finish a faction of before moving on to the next one.

[@philsoro491]

Is this a 1 off upload or is it gonna be a regular thing?

[@SirAroace]

fun fact: most historians today believe the Amazons where most likely a Greek mythologization of the Scythians

[@misaka3468]

Also, to add salt to injury, Hippolyta seems to still have her belt

[@chrisrenfro2058]

When was cav first used in battle?

[@kierangorman3052]

“Let’s enjoy some Amazons going s m a s h” - Jon

[@orarinnsnorrason4614]

"Oh my. Maxed out Ares"

[@inventsable]

Jon, lol. If you get 600 Apollo favor, you can hire a seer, then instantly use that seer to max out any other god (like Ares). Hilarious that you chose not to go for Apollo and instead go the long route to Ares, when having done Apollo you could max out Ares the next turn. Normally you'd need a temple though? Not sure how it'd work here

[@inventsable]

Fair enough, he did it at the end

[@5Andysalive]

So you're basically the aliens from Independance day.....

[@sironastillwater]

On Raze and Kill vs Raze and Enslave it appears Raze and Enslave actually gives more Glory because it is 50 per turn for 5 turns while Raze and Kill is 150 per turn for 1 turn?

[@totalwar1793]

Lmfao, CA got mixed up between A Midsummer's Night Dream, actual source material from Homer and other myth

[@knowpainnow]

Is this gonna be a series?

[@Gigglebitten]

amazons going smash eh? snu snu

[@APZachariah]

Came for the game, stayed for the history.

[@xryuran]

Did they decide not to do the free dlc? I've been keeping an eye on it but It has never been free

[@Aleer1000]

If you load up the game there is an option on the main menu (bottom right) to link a total war access account to your epic account and give you a code for the DLC.

[@Viper5delta]

It amuses me that Jon doesn't seem to take unit size into account when it coems to ranged damage output

[@5Andysalive]

Gotta love a boobily siren. I mean, what isn't improved by making it boobily?!

[@NotFinnish]

It finally released!!!!!! Oh wait....

[@hugmonger]

I would have loved a mechanic to represent the whole "This man married you and then dumped you now you are going to ruin his shit"

[@sweepingtime]

You mean Amazons aren't just comic book warriors where Wonder Woman comes from!??

[@NemoVir]

Not certain how you are able to replenish your forces from an all male enemy force, but ok.

[@benclippinger5829]

You get more exp from auto resolve because the enemy is more likely to kill more people

[@h-ideas7217]

Jon, I'd like to inform you that Microsoft has just acquired Zenimax Media. They know own Bethesda and all the subsidiaries of Bethesda. They already own Obsidian (former interplay employees) and InXile (rebranded interplay). That means for the most part all the studios that ever helped create fallout now are all owned by Microsoft. We could end up with some very unique shifts in the gaming industry.

[@Nesetroll]

So, what is stopping you from reqruiting sirens, arranging your army in a massive V, strong units to protect the sirens at the bottom, then activating "lure all enemy units," then watsh as suddenly your entire army is in the perfect flanking position?

[@xSaintAngelusx]

I mean... Eurydice (Philip Arrhidaeus wife), her mother Cynane (Alexander the Great's half sister) and her grandmother, also Eurydice (Philip the 2nd's wife) were Warrior queens in that part of the world. They were all Illyrian, which was a really common thing to have women fight. So did some of the "Step peoples" and "Sea peoples". I would hazard a guess that Themiscyra is probably just one of those. Like Atlantis is probably just Minoan. And you know, normal Greek embellishment for style points.

[@alalalalalalalalalaal6113]

Jon u should play total tank simulator

[@Aaron-kr1vu]

Came here for a history rant and a Troy TW campaign broke out

[@TheBreadthatcausedLesMis]

Given how pretty much all of my knowledge on the Amazons is based on the DC version. This will certainly be an interesting watch.

[@Nimno74]

We need a new Total War series. But, not as a horse faction. Half the fun of watching Jon play TW is the micromanagement of cities, and defending them, etc .

[@Czarhay]

Anyone else want to see a Bronze Age Collapse hoard invasion of the sea people?

[@Uchooze]

Why is this not called Troy Story?

[@EAfirstlast]

Nerd no! Sirens are the worst unit in the game! XD

[@stormofthedesert]

What I got from the start of this video is fgo got more right about penthesilea then troy without even pretending to try.

[@Xenotric]

urg requiring unity veterancy to build better units? so basically you have to spend all your time micromanaging to optimize kills and not take casualties and in the late game you are entirely screwed if an army gets beaten because tiering basic low tier units vs armies of full high tier units sounds like a fun and possible thing. I think they missed the mark here :/ doubly with the bizzare story they made up instead of using the bizzare stories that were already made up

[@randomsandwichian]

But Jon, I hear you say, what about Wonder Woman? When were they in the timeline of DC? When do we get Batman?

[@nessesaryschoolthing]

My understanding of Amazons is that they were only SORT OF mortal. Like, they were the descendants of Ares and a nymph, so presumably they had a longer natural lifespan despite still being killable. So if Hypolita lived through the age of Hercules, there's no reason she couldn't be here except for, you know, not being present in source material and just being the one Amazon we all know.

[@magoshighlands4074]

Funnily enough the all female faction has no wood

[@FWDDGS]

Possibly a dumb question. Do we think there might be any overlap between Historical Scythia and Legendary Themiscyra? Just because Scythia was famed for its horse archers including women warriors capable of taking down a mighty emperor. UPDATE: no. They are about 500-1000 years too late to be the same people. Never mind.

[@FreeOfFantasy]

The trojan war was somewhere between 1334 BC-1135 BC depending on who you ask. Scythians inhabited Scythia at least from around 1000 BC to 200 AD. That is not that far from each other. Also it's notoriously difficult to pin down when where nomadic people lived, they don't tend to leave ruins behind for archaeologists to date and everything organic from that time period is just gone.

[@furioussherman7265]

Anyone else here think it would be cool if the Amazons had a legendary unit that was literally just Wonder Woman?

[@librarianseth5572]

Day 134 of requesting zoo tycoon. I was surprised to see the amazons show up... then the giants rocked up

[@XeranDereth]

Kind of sad that creative assembly hasn't used Jon as a Consultant, he loves their games, he's already been sponsored, and he has a degree on the subject matter.

[@AgentofChaos315]

I just happend to check my subscriptions and saw this "2 seconds age".

[@ChulioRCHulio]

It would be really funny if one of your female heros could get "black widow" as a perk - 10% more damage against men xD

[@GodNoodle_]

Female, the true way to play fallout 3

[@bloodygorilla9823]

Where is my crusader kings 3 ?

[@Kaarl_Mills]

I thought the Amazons didnt exist?

[@littlebigheroman]

Then how is Jeff Bezos the wealthiest man alive? Checkmate, atheists!

[@DecidedlyNinja]

AFAIK (not an expert here) some of the greeks' enemies had women warriors, but a whole civilization of warrior women was purely mythical. However, CA's approach to myths is "what if it was true, just maybe mangled by countless retellings?" (as little is known for sure about this period) rather than writing anything off as fictional.

[@S0m35uy]

You studied classics at Oxford. We get it.

[@ichimaru96]

i'll be honest, i got this game free, played like an hour and just immediately uninstalled the epic store

[@WarDogMadness]

history :amazons metaphorical allegorical story.. pop culture i blame xena and wonder woman. CA here best units and faction in game girl power as john says.. at least they did put valkyrie or shieldmaidens in previous titles. new titles who knows.

[@isolatedartist6657]

Why are you screaming?

[@chinchilla2302]

Isn't the whole "Amazon" women warrior thing proven to just be entirely fiction? There's literally zero evidence to suggest that women had any fighting role in ancient Greece. At a stretch there might have been a few rare instances where women fought alongside the men in tough times as with the Celts in Gaul and Britain, but all women armies? Absolute nonsense.

[@nopenoperton5448]

For starters, Amazons are part of Greek myth, they’re never considered Greek so women having a fighting role in Ancient Greece is a moot point. Secondly, roughly 1/3rd of Scythian women’s tombs that archaeologists found have had weapons in their tombs and many of them had what seemed to be combat trauma on their bones. Third, in a game replete with fictional characters and giant men with horns on their heads, your complaint is about women armies 😂. There are Amazons in the Trojan Epic Cycle so there are Amazons in this game. It’s not that difficult.

[@Gensokyo-Longhouse-Arsonist]

of course it can't be a modern video game without ticking the wamen empowerment box, it's the current year after all

[@GinyouRinsom]

Yes, how dare ancient greek mythos have a stuff about Amazons. How dare they impede my fragile masculinity by having women warriors.

[@Gensokyo-Longhouse-Arsonist]

@@GinyouRinsom and of course you can't say anything about it without some simp telling you you're not a real man for daring to question tokenism. again; current year.

[@inventsable]

@@Gensokyo-Longhouse-Arsonist It's pretty valid to have Amazons here regardless of political climate. They're literally a big part of the mythic landscape and the exact material this game is based on. You just got a base game with 95% exclusively male units and Amazons already existing, but you hate them being a playable faction?

[@nopenoperton5448]

Literally the first two lines of the Cypria, the epic that recorded the events after the Iliad, begins like this: “So they busied themselves with Hector’s funeral. And an Amazon came, a daughter of Ares the great-hearted, the slayer of men.” Amazons are part of the mythology of the Trojan War, you incel.

[@Gensokyo-Longhouse-Arsonist]

@@nopenoperton5448"you incel" go an hero, simp

[@nikewilly8404]

this looks like a huge downgrade from warhammer

[@TheMonkeystick]

Every historical game is a downgrade from warhammer lol

[@nikewilly8404]

@@TheMonkeystick 1. This game is not historical, it's low effort fantasy 2. Medieval 2, Rome 2, Empire, shogun 2 exist

[@winsingtoniii681]

@@TheMonkeystick This isn't really historical, this era is mostly mythology, it's prior to written history. The characters in game weren't real people, just mythological figures (perhaps based on real individuals to some extent).

[@seekeroftheway]

@@TheMonkeystick You're not an actual Total War fan if you believe that, just a fan of the spin off series...

[@akisd9718]

I dislike the video cause CA made a fake story for the one sister but they keep the motto " the truth behind the myth"! In this matter there are no history clues not even mythical so I was glad that Jon get pissed off with that fake story CA came up. Generally I disaproove many decitions that CA took with this game{the game is pretty, it has other cool mechanics but siege equipment is not needed because of the "magic" ladders and should be the opposite in a game that you siege a lot and is supposed to be based in truth and not myth, poor animations in battle etc. The deal with epicstore made CA money but i dont think made them new customers,just force people.. (I am Greek i want the game, I wait to get it on steam).. to transfer from steam to epicstore. I call this deal epic failure}. Anyway, Jon is great as always and made the video exciting .

[@nopenoperton5448]

🥱Truth behind the myth is just a marketing slogan. Don’t read too much into it and it doesn’t merit a paragraph.

[@akisd9718]

@@nopenoperton5448 they use it all the time so i will keep critisize it! if they change to a better marketing then i will change opinion!

[@BinkyTheElf1]

Speaking of accuracy, how does CA model the differences between female Amazon warriors & everyone else’s male warriors? Combat, weight, upper body strength, testosterone & aggression.....

[@Luca-sl7tb]

As it turns out, muscles and upper body strength don't stop bronze spears.

[@chinchilla2302]

@@Luca-sl7tb But lack of muscle and upper body strength would definitely stop you from being able to effectively use-let alone throw-a bronze spear.

[@Luca-sl7tb]

@@chinchilla2302 Women can, in fact, grab and throw objects. That's why they have arms in the first place. On a less sarcastic tone, the importance of sheer physical strength in warfare is being massively overstated by you people. Warfare is decided by tactics, equipment, training, logistics, all things that don't differ drastically when subjected to a gender switch. The vast majority of soldiers in history have been nothing special in terms of strength, in fact the majority have probably been either malnourished peasants and rich elite that could afford better equipment that gave them an inherent advantage. To go on with that, Alexander didn't conquer the Persian empire because his phalangites were all literally Hercules, and the Romans didn't conquer the world because legionaries were good at punching. Alexander and the Romans would have achieved what they achieved even if their solders were replaced by more scrawny ones. Or even women for that matter. Physical strength is just not an important factor in warfare, there are way too many things that can make it irrelevant (tactics and logistics) and other things that equalize it (equipment and training).

[@Luca-sl7tb]

@St. Petersberg And you seem to continue to massively overestimate both the importance of sheer strength in warfare and the biological differences between men and women. If I were to believe what I'm being told to I'd have to think that women are completely incapable of lifting, exercising and doing physical activities, and that their arms are just ornamental. This is quite exaggerated compared to reality. The sexual dimorphism in humans is just not as accentuate as some people think it is. Even though there is an inherent gap between men and women in general upper body strength women are still quite capable of lifting heavy weights and doing heavy labour, this was never done on a large scale historically because human societies have evolved from hunter-gathering tribes and among these small tribes there was likely a strong necessity to separate the jobs of women and men because women were just too crucial in their role of mothers for the survival of these small tribes, and when later civilization and culture evolved these social roles for men and women became calcified in tradition and laws. Leaving aside this historical context for the sake of a theoretical discussion however, the strength of women for the purposes of military activity in the ancient to recently modern world is probably going to be good enough, especially as the stuff that actually matters either isn't dependent on gender or tends to equalize individual strength. Very modern militaries may be a different story as nowadays actual fighting soldiers are more like commandos trained to be peak athletes, and there the biological difference between men and women becomes more noticeable just like in sports, but this is a fairly recent development.

[@barrykent9877]

Yup, Total War games are more and more stupid.