Tournament debrief and thoughts on how 4th is going.

[@ThePaintingSquirrel]

Really appreciate a lot of your insight. As a player with an army without any real sources of Strikes First/Strikes Last playing against the armies that can manipulate that is very frustrating and it seems like simething GW just kind of forgot to give some factions.

[@warhammerrulesasintended]

It's often worth taking a really bad unit if it lets you access Strike-First/Strike-Last stuff and changing your play pattern to access it. If you don't have SF/SL stuff, you can use shooting or debuffs to deal with those units. If your book has none of that - let me know which book it is! It'll help me when it comes time to review it. There should be SOMETHING in your book - it's usually just a question of how easy it is to bring those tools to bear.

[@edin6128]

Nice recap. You could mention your list at the beginning quickly.

[@warhammerrulesasintended]

Absolutely! in future I'll take photos and structure the content more.

[@damianone4404]

No of my armies on your channel but I really like your videos

[@warhammerrulesasintended]

What do you play?

[@damianone4404]

@@warhammerrulesasintended dok & lrl

[@WinnerDave99]

Good video, thanks for taking the time. What was your list?

[@WinnerDave99]

Also, can I sound you out on a rule that has been an issue for our group. "Can you all-out-defence in response to a covering-fire"?

[@warhammerrulesasintended]

List was: -Mannfred 10 Black Knights -Vhodrai 10 Deathrattle Skeletons 5 Blood Knights -Necromancer (Lash, Amulet) 20 Grave Guard Morbid Conjuration. It's a greedy list that probably needs more chaff. Performed well though. I think the Grave Guard and Black Knights are mostly doing the same job. I could probably drop the GG or Blood Knights for more chaff. Honestly, 12" move Blood Knights are really useful for clearing up opponent chaff/BT getters.

[@warhammerrulesasintended]

RE: "Can you all-out-defence in response to a covering-fire"? I had this question argued at the local club. I think the "no" argument is that covering fire doesn't talk about targetting in the declare instructions so it doesn't meet the AOD requirement to be targetted in it's timing window of "Opponent declared an Attack ability". I think you can. 16.0 "Picking Targets" says that "When declaring an attack ability for a unit, you must pick the target unit(s) for it's attacks." Covering Fire is an ATTACK ability so you have to pick the targets when you declare it, therefore it meets the AOD reaction definition. So yes! I'd say you can use All Out Defence against Covering Fire.

[@WinnerDave99]

@warhammerrulesasintended see I knew you'd be able to explain it. Cheers buddy. Would be good if they cleared it up in an FAQ

[@randykeeling1916]

The stormcast folks are saying FEC are one of the worst armies in the game but I don't see it. But then again I'm not abusing Longstrikes. FEC has so much stacked stuff that by the time my opponent is done with their hero phase I'm ready to pack up. It's so frustrating seeing an army with all the tools they need to play the game when other factions are like clunking half powered obtuse machines that barely function. Also to your point about damage wiping units, yea I agree. In stormcast your battleline option is just 10 Vanquishers. SCE is the "elite" faction but every single time I put 10 Vanqs on the line I'm 100% guaranteed to lose at least 8-9 of them on the enemy's activation if they get charged. If they get to swing first into their ideal target they maybe kill 6-9 models because everything in the game except SCE either has a bucket of wounds on their infantry or ward saves everywhere. If they charge you you're likely just giving the opponent 220 points of your army for literally nothing in return. SCE are not elite, a 3+ save and 2 wounds is nothing compared to the dps every army is putting out. Trolls swinging -3s, Kroxes too, Bone Reapers just go right through SCE like they aren't even there. It's practically unplayable for SCE if you aren't using specific, arguably busted, units and hiding behind Morbid. I'm sure other armies are in the same boat. Sylvaneth looks like it doesn't even function on paper. KO can't even interact with Endless Spells without sacrificing vital, required resources. StD feels like an army composed entirely of blank warscrolls with statlines. I really like how 4th edition plays and I think it's a good baseline but it feels really really terrible to play right now, likely because I happen to have the wrong armies?

[@rotm4447]

you would think any other army was unplayably terrible if you had it.

[@randykeeling1916]

@@rotm4447 Cool good talk, good feedback

[@rotm4447]

@@randykeeling1916 your whining about a reinforced deluxe chaff unit dying to high rend hammers, what feedback do you want. Go stick 6 annihilators on the line to get charged then.

[@Basscannon90]

What army are you running for Stormcast? I don't use Longstrikes either, but I use Stormdrakes as my main hammers, and Annihilators as my anvils. To your point about Vanquishers, they're chaff. They, along with Vindictors and Liberators are meant to be used as a cheap screen, or a cheap objective grabber for a turn, and then they die. I agree with you about Endless Spells though. Everyone is running Morbid and it's boring and tiresome. Whoever had the idea to make them free wasn't thinking straight imo, they're broken and they warp the game around them.

[@randykeeling1916]

@@Basscannon90 I've been really trying with Yndrasta and SDG. The SDG are wildly expensive for hitting slightly harder than the Questors especially since their abilities work on a 3+. Yndrasta had her final try with me last week when she got hit with Ushoran's spell and one shot a SDG lol She's been more helpful for the enemy than for me over 5 games with her. She's just too expensive, requires your general slot, and if she wiffs (which she has 5/5 times for me into isolated monster) she just gives up a Slay tactic. Now that I've put her back in the box the plan is as many bodies as I can fit, Vanqs, libs, vindicators and vigilors. I'm hopeful that'll feel more reliable but I've not gotten a chance to play that list yet. I hear people like Karazai and Krondys as well so those are on my list to try as well but you only get so many games a week.