Tournament Finals 2023 - Ep 93 - Start of the Pan Gath Conflict

[@golemokrator2920]

Very interesting episode to see the difference of what casters and the players in game are thinking. Obviously Omniscience mod and not being involved in the game gives a really specific perspective.Casters were a bit puzzled about why players do what they are doing (mostly being passive). My take on it: Gath rolls Doom Horrors now and won't attack until he gets the first one, otherwise he is afraid to jump into GoHed lands of Pan. Also he ended NAP with Agartha so he is going to target his Throne. Pan fears Gathian armies and he lost his Wish caster (his god) so he is passive until he summons some Royal Malqui or until Gath attacks his Thrones so he can ask Xibalba and others to switch to assasulting gathian Thrones to retuurn some balance to the Throne count. Xibalba expects Gathian thronerush, but via agreement with him wants to make his own Thrones safe while getting some Thrones from TC and Erythia. So he wants to make Gath fight for pangean Thrones and while they are both busy catch up to them in terms of power and Throne count. Erythia marches his forces inside his cap and inside his closest Throne to give Xibalba a spectacular battle. Agartha wants to hold his only Throne until the end of the game and then brag that they were one of the few nations owning a Throne by the end of it. TC lost his last Throne so now he just wants to crush his whole army into Pangea and make him lost the game. Vaetti just waits the moment of someone thronerushing and then crash his Idol in one of the besieged Thrones, prevent it's capture and save the day that way.

[@DarkSideCookies]

My understanding is Xibalba felt a bit betrayed getting hit by stuff like Perpetual Storm while other players put up big economic globals instead of ending naps. Xibalba needed time to rebuild, and Gath was fairly generous not outright killing Xibalba so it would feel shitty to break a generous NAP you just signed 3 turns ago to go help the Nexus/GoNB players. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect position 2 to have well guarded thrones and to fight longer and better than Xibalba who is position 3. In some ways, I feel that peace deal sealed Xibalba's fate a bit in terms of "hanging together" or "hanging separate" in regards to a coalition on Gath. In my view there were two potential paths for Xibalba. They can take the share of Nexus, hope they gain ground and nearby thrones faster than Pan, and then turn to try and invade Ery thrones in a throne rush. The other option would be taking Ery thrones now while Pan is distracted, hope the two sides stalemate a bit, and then swing into Gath in a rush to try and win without the Nexus share. In my limited experience it's rarely the case smaller powers keep up with larger ones in a race so I don't hate taking the second path. I'd also point out, that Pan likely felt like Xibalba peaced out too quick from the Gath war and probably expected more. They likely couldn't see everything happening though.

[@DemonsthenesDominions]

Looking at how empty the Pan/Erytheia territory is, and especially the areas around their thrones, I think they might have done well to invest in some fake army items. They take some care to use without tells, and it's always better to actually have armies defending your thrones, but next best is for your opponents to think you've got armies defending your thrones when you don't, since that can deter a throne assault that you cannot prevent.

[@maven_b]

A few comments on the weird Gath/Xib NAP condition. I am not currently in a rush to end the game while I certainly can, and that is because I am somehow not the public enemy. But hey, I will use what I am given :) And since I definitely don't want to fight Xibalba I will agree to weird NAP conditions especially because I know (while Xibalba might not) that I don't need to be adjacent to that throne to attack and pop it in one turn.

[@maven_b]

I think you missed an important part from Pan saying he is going to deploy his own DoD assasins against Gath :)

[@DemonsthenesDominions]

Well and also N3E2 Pan assassins with Black Hearts and a nature gem, which is something we were worried about Pan doing 30 turns ago. It's a lot stronger than Dryads as an assassination against high morale targets.

[@maven_b]

@@DemonsthenesDominions That I was more or less expecting. Any army moving into Pan lands should have an abundance of extra commanders and possibly some DoDs as cover