Tours 732 - What if Charles Martel lost?

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The year is 732 and from an Iberian Peninsula dominated by the Umayyad Caliphate, the Caliph's men venture forth into France. A new governor of Al-Andalus, by the name of Abdul Rahman al-Ghafiqi, leads a strong Muslim army in. Between Poitiers and Tours, Charles Martel awaits the Arabs with his well trained army in a desperate defense. What if Charles Martel had lost the Battle of Tours? What would Western Europe be like today?
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#Tours #732 #CharlesMartel

[@FlashPointHx]

The debate on this battle continues to this day. I wanted to create a video to explore what may have happened had Tours gone the other way. Wanted to also introduce The Alternate Historian - check out his KZbin page if you get a chance. There is a lot of interesting thought experiments happening there. Enjoy. Btw the next Reconquista Video is coming out on Feb 2!

[@hadtrio6629]

since u want to start a what if videos do the scenarios: what if the ottoman had developed like in England during the industrial revolution or like japan " " " " " USSR joined the axis powers instead of the allies alexander the great doesn't get sick and carries his plan to invade the Arabian peninsula

[@N3003Q]

👍😂

[@NeoConNET7]

Oh my god I love love Alternate History like a giddy school girl loves Justin Bieber! When I saw this video in my feed, instant huge happy smile! I'll always remain a fan of your channel for life.

[@FlashPointHx]

I’m so happy you liked it - I wasn’t sure how’d it go off. Always appreciate the awesome comments

[@hadtrio6629]

@@FlashPointHx it's great but u better add tariq ibn ziad speech and burning his ships to prevent fleeing when u talk about him in the reconquista 😑😠

[@totalwartimelapses6359]

Basically any of my Muslim friends watching this (I'm an Arab btw): "Andalusia was religiously tolerant" "yeah it was!!" "Andalusia was more literate" "hell yeah it was, oh I'm so proud" "Andalusia tolerated gays" "wait WHAT? No it didn't that's a western lie to corrupt our image, we would never tolerate such degeneracy" Seriously my friends would never believe that any form of what they consider "degeneracy" was tolerated in the utopian old Islamic world

[@tmp123451000]

Can't have your cake and eat it too. Stop pushing your homosexuality on Europe.

[@FlashPointHx]

There are so many heated views on Tolerance in Islamic Spain

[@totalwartimelapses6359]

@@FlashPointHx Thing is, usually some people would claim Andalusia wasn't as tolerant as it's portrayed, and muslims would come to the defence, but in the case of homosexuality, muslims would be on the opposite side (well maybe except western ones) and would argue that the caliphs male lovers thing is a western lie...basically they would consider tolerance in this aspect as a negative part of that society Hell some would even use it as reason for why Andalusia fell, "God's punishment for tolerating sin"

[@totalwartimelapses6359]

@@tmp123451000 Haha irony

[@laenorvelaryon5835]

@@FlashPointHx I read My share of sources on that part of history, and while homosexuality never ceased to be officially a sin, it was a socially acceptable behaviour if you squint your eyes just right , just like wine, it strongly mirrors the Greek society if you think about it, and muslim society was NOT the moral eutopia many think it was, overall I think that religious fundamentalism began in the 11th century (christian and muslim)

[@AdamNoizer]

“Al andalus was notable for being tolerant of homosexuality” Hmm, well yes but actually no. It is true that some of their rulers did engage in such behaviour but for the majority of the populace it was still considered quite taboo and were not tolerant of it.

[@hadtrio6629]

it's crystal clear that it's haram(forbidden) it's actually a shameful part of our history when the caliphs left jihad and fulfilling their duties to their subjects and fight among themselves for power like now and only kept having sex with anything that has a shape of an ass in their harem

[@AdamNoizer]

HAD Trio It happened but it wasn’t really as common as some orientalist historians make it out to be. That said, only viewing the actions of a debauched elite will never give us a good understanding about the overall society and their values.

[@hadtrio6629]

@@AdamNoizer dude am muslim we know this there's even poems about it

[@mustipunyaemail]

homosexuality is one of the factors of the fall of a nation.

[@GrandMoffTarkinsTeaDispenser]

I sense sexual repression in this thread lol.

[@felixmonger767]

Its over Al Ghafiqi, I have the high ground!

[@FlashPointHx]

He did - and the results are known to this day

[@jokester3076]

I highly doubt that “homosexuality” was overtly tolerated in society in al-Andalus, it’s more likely that you had closet homosexuals who were well connected and protected by powerful rulers.

[@vinfacts11]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Spain#Islamic_Spain_(718%E2%80%931492)

[@nickbreen287]

@@vinfacts11 Wiki? A source of facts?

[@TheTokkie]

@@vinfacts11 In the Quran it is literally stated that homosexual men mustb e punished. I don't care how many edgy Americans try to redraw history for American political gains or just for snobbism. The truth has its right, Islamic empires were not more tolerant

[@AdamNoizer]

It’s strange how al Ghafiqi made a similar tactical blunder at tours to what Roderic made at Guadalete two decades earlier. -not having the guarantee of confidence from his soldiers -charging cavalry uphill against well defended positions

[@FlashPointHx]

Charging up hill, against a well defended enemy - if it was snowing it would have completed the trifecta

[@mindyourbusiness4440]

His army was simply better, and he had no time to wait for the opportunity

[@peskysmurf7414]

It also reminds of the battle of Uhud, the Muslims were also baited by an attack on their war spoils. Mohammad had explicitly ordered his men to not fall for it before the battle, but some were more motivated by money than by the passion of faith.

[@TheTokkie]

Roderic was betrayed by his rivals and osme sources even state that Gothic factiosn started to fight each other durign the battle

[@HikmaHistory]

Loved that the pace of this video was slightly faster than usual!

[@kamalaew4245]

In Arabic this battle is known as " bilate el chuhadaa" it means the battle of martyrs

[@Ghost-vi8qm]

Good riddance.

[@Ghost-vi8qm]

And they were not martyrs but thieves, rapers and oppressors. Don't know what so holy about that.

[@anasm4496]

@@Ghost-vi8qm they were martyrs, had they won, imagine how much science would go to Europe, great cities will be built, europe colonized the islamic world and not some radicals walk around. Seriously, I wish tours was won by Muslims, now the world is just depressed

[@Seven_1865]

@@anasm4496 are you insane? Europe and America have the vast majority of inventions. What has the Muslim world come up with?

[@TheTokkie]

@@Seven_1865 The compass and foundations of Algebra.... but after the Mongols massacred them it all went downhill.

[@causingarc6625]

shit i always thought Tours was in the extreme south east of France. Mind blowing to see how far the caliphate got in real life.

[@FlashPointHx]

They made it pretty far in a lot of their raids

[@kalajic_posting7530]

You confused Tolouse with Tours, it happens haha

[@karimmezghiche9921]

@jay d taqqiya?

[@DoctorDeath147]

@jay d "I think you're confusing peace with quiet." -Ultron

[@deshaunjensen2454]

@@FlashPointHx Conquests, they were doing 'raids' in the iberian peninsula until they conquered most of the land and moved north farther into Europe.

[@taintofcartman8064]

Yes! So happy for this update!

[@FlashPointHx]

any time - next one out in a few days

[@FCGroningen1987]

Factors not mentioned so far are this: - Charles Martel trained a standing army instead of the usual army that consists of levies. Only with papal contributions Charles Martel could pay for this troops to prevent them from going home for harvest. - If he would have lost, Charles would have lost a lot of well trained troops. On the contrary, the Umayyads instead lost a good part of their well trained cavalry forces. - the Umayyads did not know much about their opponent when they faced the Franks on the field. On top of that, the Umayyads did not expect the Burgundians to be there and if they would have lost the Burgundians would not have been able to provide support again. - There was no strong central leader figure left if Martel would have lost and died in battle. another outside factor: - People didn't seem that attached to their religion around that age. Plenty of christians and pagans were willing to switch religion if it would suit them. I'm rather skeptical myself the christians in western Europe would have been able to mount an efficient combined defence again soon.

[@mrmu7ammed1]

I dont disagree except in one point, Charles had two sons Carloman who was strong and fairly successful and Pipin the short "27 years old at his father death and 18 at the time of battle" so the franks could still resist because they were not leaderless.

[@FCGroningen1987]

@@mrmu7ammed1 Fair point. Although I wonder if this sons would be strong authorities as Charles mostly got his from winning this particular battle, allowing him to take over from the Merovingians.

[@calafiori]

Your work is so consistently great that I find myself liking the video even before watching it. This one also didn't disappoint. Thank you.

[@FlashPointHx]

thank you!

[@tommyodonovan3883]

Charles the Hammer Martel

[@FlashPointHx]

Well Martel means Hammer - you can leave the middle part out

[@dannyl6064]

@@FlashPointHx the immortal hammer!

[@Divert486]

I dont think you should put a red line at the bottom of your thumbnail. At first glace i thought i had already watched it.

[@FlashPointHx]

Wow! I never would’ve thought of that. Thank you for mentioning this. I need to create a new thumbnail.

[@kingmaverick3140]

Probably there would be no world wars! Amazing video as it’s unbiased !

[@FlashPointHx]

Thanks - I think =)

[@funhistory7640]

Splendid video Great job mate

[@FlashPointHx]

Thank you!

[@funhistory7640]

@@FlashPointHx Your most welcome

[@player101snoop]

Loved the video!

[@FlashPointHx]

Thank you!!

[@Herman47]

*If Charles Martel had lost, I don't want to think about it!*

[@bobipapy2404]

I m glad youtube allowed this history thank you

[@trevinowens70]

Thank God for Charles Martel!!

[@chrismasse3818]

I saw my favourite content creator upload and some how ended up watching the alternate historian. I feel robbed

[@taintofcartman8064]

Did you not read the title of the video?

[@chrismasse3818]

@@taintofcartman8064 i did, now i am not a native english speaker do you mind pointing out to me the part that refer to a collaboration in the title ? Thanks

[@FlashPointHx]

Wanted to see what a collaboration would work out like

[@LauftFafa]

the issue is that arabic historians all agree it was a razwa , not a fath , this mean a raid , not a conquest . but well we westerners love to glorify such things and believe we saved civilization and world etc like how we do with marathon and salamis and lepanto and more . if the french lost that day it will be just an another pillaging . hungarians were also doing that during same time period and a century later the norse will join the party .

[@FlashPointHx]

good points

[@dansmith3343]

I couldn't even watch. How could you ? Martel is gonna be waiting for you at the gates of saint Peter lol

[@FlashPointHx]

ha!

[@marcusplain3474]

Great video and content as always, but I'd like to point out that we are confusing two different circumstances as one and the same: the outcome of the battle and the fate of Charles Martel. These two things are not necessarily dependent on each other, as Charles could have died and still win the battle or lose the battle but live to fight another day. The video doesn't really discuss the potential consequences of the muslims winning the battle, it just fantasizes about a world without the Carolingians. It would've been great to explore some more of those scenarios.

[@FlashPointHx]

Good points - he was a master tactician and rebounded nicely after his first battle which was a defeat

[@josephwamoto3529]

The bigger lose for the Muslim armies was in Constantinople. The forces arrayed were bigger and the target a bigger one geared towards conquest. This was a raiding party that was to return back to Iberia by winter.

[@FlashPointHx]

I agree - the siege of 717 - 718 was an impressive sight

[@dannyalex5866]

We need a series about Byzantine Arab wars

[@FlashPointHx]

covered it in a prior video =)

[@dannyalex5866]

@@FlashPointHx said a series...

[@FlashPointHx]

@@dannyalex5866 well, I'd have to stop production on my series on the Black Death to go back to that. You sure ? =)

[@dannyalex5866]

@@FlashPointHx just saying we need a series about Arab-Byzantine wars,dont demand anything,dont expect anything...and tbh I dont enjoy any videos with any plague

[@user-ge8yn4ql4i]

Interesting possible outcome and one to possibly work out more. I like the idea of Christianity and Islam duking it out while paganism continues on in the north.

[@mansakarimi]

At that time,Turkey was a Christian country and Spain was Muslim but now it's completely opposite

[@TheSamuraijim87]

This was an interesting video. I find "what if history" an often tenuous process, and often reliant on a great deal of sensationalism and general guesswork. This video however, does manage to remain very much reasonable and keep a realistic view of the events described. I think the biggest difference would, most likely, have been the absence of Charles Martel as the dominant figure of Frankish politics. Whether that would have created a butterfly effect or not is debatable. I definitely think that the Pyrenees and perhaps southern France would have become home to a smattering of "marcher lord" emirates, as occurred during the Arabic invasions of Italy. What we have come to know as the Kingdom of Navarra could have been the "Sultanate of Navarra". But i don't think the Frankish realm would have collapsed. Pelayo had by this time, already begun his Visigothic reconquista, and the Franks had been established in Gaul since the 4th or 5th centuries, so they were completely entrenched and Christianised, and much, much more populous than the Arab Umayyads. The Arabs themselves, especially at this time, viewed al-Andalus as equally as much a frontier as the borders of India. The point regarding the Lombard Kingdom and the Saxons is interesting to consider, especially since it was the Ottonian Saxons who founded the HRE in fact and name. Interesting stuff.

[@FlashPointHx]

This is a really good analysis.

[@TheSamuraijim87]

@@FlashPointHx thank you. I thought it was important to follow along the same very realistic lines you guys outlined in the video.

[@regislehoucq2803]

Dans un livre de 1600, de la Bibliothèque municipale de Lille, la bataille de Tours a eu lieu le 21 juillet 727 près de Tours au lieu dit de Martel le Bel rebaptisé Saint-Martin de Tours. Pour la vie de Charles Martel consultez la chronique de Charles Martel conservée à la Bibliothèque Royale de Bruxelles. Le manuscrit daterait de 880. Je ne l'ai pas consulté. Je n'en connais pas de traduction en français moderne avec le texte ancien. A quand un vrai historien qui traduise la chronique de Charles Martel.

[@adrianrusse1337]

Not a single word of this is taught in English schools. It's been erased.

[@Darth_Enigma]

Wow Al-Andalus really seemed like THE place to be back then alongside Constantinople, I almost wish I could've lived in either one of those places back then if only they had microwaves and/or pizza lol

[@rsync9490]

Baghdad was also pretty great too.

[@FlashPointHx]

@@rsync9490 you're spot on - Baghdad was impressive - but would really hit its stride in the 10th and 11th centuries along with Cordoba. Constantinople, on the other hand, was alway impressive

[@hazzmati]

@Flash Point History even after 1204? xD

[@FlashPointHx]

I have not, does it have anything to do with the fall of Constantinople to the Latin knights of the fourth Crusade?

[@hazzmati]

Yes I hoped I was obvious enough heh. But you should read about how widespread the destruction was. Many things looted, destroyed, people killed and precious artifacts taken away. Population before the crusader sack was 400.000 and and after 60 years it was 10 percent of that number.

[@mr.excitement689]

Why do you think the Muslim armies were never able to finish off the entire Iberian peninsula and decided to move toward France instead?

[@FlashPointHx]

The Cantabrian Mountains proved to be too difficult an obstacle

[@mr.excitement689]

Flash Point History ahhh- so they just went with the old idea that, they are all but defeated, leave them be, they are no rival to us and not worth the effort, idea.

[@FlashPointHx]

@@mr.excitement689 Not quite - If you listen to my main podcast - the north was raided over and over and over again. In fact, during the reign of Almanzor - when The Caliphate of Cordoba held supremacy over the peninsula, attacking the north became a sport. They just couldn't be eradicated.

[@gmandersonjr]

It was a factor that muslim raiding east of the pyrennes mountains ceased, not expansion. Loss of leadership and happy to still control the Iberbian penusila and it's food production, wealth, taxes, mineral the arabs were satisfied to keep what they had. The Vienna battle and Vlad the Impaler were more instrumental in stopping the muslim from taking over europe.

[@youtischia]

Good video. But there is a small problem with the title. It should be "What if Charles Martel HAD lost ?" Can you see the HAD in front of lost ? This sort of sentence is counterfactual as you are considering an alternative to what actually happened. If you dont believe me just google the term "counterfactual sentences". Very common error on history channels !

[@FlashPointHx]

Sometimes it about tying to get it to fit - like newspaper headlines

[@karlkafer1635]

I get that you need to establish background, but for an "alternative history" video to spend more than half the time detailing the "actual history" is rather stupid. Why not link to your previous video on the Battle of Tours?

[@FlashPointHx]

Its a collaboration - the idea is that it will also be posted on his KZbin channel - many who haven't see my video.

[@krushnaji4940]

Are you talking about ( bachabaji)

[@rufusgoldstein2655]

Always have the high ground.

[@FlashPointHx]

And never fight a land war in Asia

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

My opinion is if the Arabs won the battle they would of conquered chunks of Frankia. But would still be defeated in Germany, Britain, Scandinavia or Italy. I honestly doubt they would expand beyond Frankia

[@arthurfleck1554]

And God willingly he did not loose!

[@thelegate8636]

A more united, and probably severely revanchist, Europe under the umbrella of the Eastern Romans. As a Byzantine nut I'd love to see further exploration into that concept. Would make for interesting book at least.

[@FlashPointHx]

Perhaps the west would be asking the Byzantine for a crusade in the other direction?

[@thelegate8636]

@@FlashPointHx Now that would be a funny switch considering our timelines crusades.

[@LuisAldamiz]

Odo was not a "Frankish" Duke but an Aquitanian one. For a century his dynasty had kept the double Duchy of Aquitaine and Vasconia *independent* and the Franks only had the vaguest claim over it (which they could only enforce, not without resistance and great complexity, after Tours). Also there was no Asturias yet: Asturias emerged after Tours.

[@TheTokkie]

Aquitana split up from the main kingdom

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@TheTokkie - Only in the Germanic or neo-Roman narrative, in the Basque one, those neo-Roman realms had no legitimacy. The facts are that: 1. Vasconia (Novempopulania and the southern areas, the Aquitani confederacy that Crassus Jr. tried to conquer but only partly achieved, and also Cantabria) rose up in a successful bagauda (anti-feudal revolution) and was de facto independent for some 200 years. This is the definitory new beginning of historical Basques (and by extension our romanized close relatives: the Gascons) 2. The Merovingians conquered it (except Cantabria, which somehow went to the Visigoths instead) but revolts were so persistent that they had to pull out and grant independence not just to Vasconia but also to the romanized Aquitania to its north, under Duke Felix. 3. For a whole century this dual Duchy was independent until the Muslim invasion, which it resisted fiercely for 18 years. The massive Al Ghafiqi army was too much however and they had to make concesions to Charles Martel, who was not even king, but majordomo, together they defeated Al Ghafiqi at Tours/Poitiers and the dual Duchy was liberated under nominal Frankish overlordship only. 4. However soon afterwards the Franks began a policy of intervention and gradually the realm of Felix and Odo was broken up and subdued. This resulted in the later independence of Pamplona and the two Frankish defeats against the Basques at "Roncevaux" (Orreaga) pass.

[@erichusayn]

It's just a matter of time...

[@EDD519]

HE DIDN`T LOSE !

[@user-tu4ib3dv3f]

Even if Muslims won 10 battles like the Battle of Poitiers, it would not convert the French to Islam

[@Hugehugebighuge]

1:50

[@shehzadkanwal4276]

Sir plz tell.me i know history send me book

[@muazzamshaikh2049]

This battle is much glorified in Western history. Some things get romanticised. Although this was certainly a battle that halted expansion, the victory at Vienna in 1683 against the Ottomans was certainly greater. That is because it was a much larger campaign.

[@FlashPointHx]

or the siege of constantinople in 717

[@higochumbo8932]

What's with the gangsta music. Sounds like you are rapping.

[@tallswede80]

they saved the city of tours at the very least.

[@FlashPointHx]

good point

[@jimbossemi-customs3129]

Your first video I’ve watched that I didn’t care for, guess you can’t win them all.

[@ZipSlipHollingbrook]

He did lose. Go to Paris sometime.

[@misterangel8486]

Yep, that was worth waiting for😁👍 Good cooperation, I especially like how you explore the fact that paganism might get a new life and that the Christian schisma might not happen. A+ guys👏👏👏

[@FlashPointHx]

Thanks!

[@Ardunafeth]

Never a big fan of 'what if history'... There are a billion things that could have gone differently at any point in time in history each of which could have a billion different unforeseen consequences... It doesn't contribute to anything except if you want to write a book of fiction for entertainment.

[@FlashPointHx]

I can see your point of you, I like the idea and that it is a good thought experiment. It may be entertainment, but it also provokes a lot of thought and debate.

[@FlashPointHx]

Lex - could t have said it any better myself

[@jamesmurphy9105]

Why didn't the Islamic Empire build a fleet raid southern France and Italy eventually conquer in a city or two

[@FlashPointHx]

They actually conquered most of southern France by land. There were attempts to take Italy as well - they actually occupied parts of Sicily

[@nancyjanzen5676]

The battle of Lepanto

[@halaldunya918]

I'm glad Charles won, I like Islam, but European culture is also interesting. When it's developing on its own. Al Andalusia was becoming a back water anyway.

[@laenorvelaryon5835]

I think I mentioned it in your previous video but I don't think Tours would've made a difference, logistically the Umayyad caliphate reached its expansion limits, and all the conditions were already lined up for great events such as the berber revolt, the khurassan revolt, the Umayyad civil war and the Abbassid coup, the Umayyad caliphate was in its last decade and no expansion would've been possible no matter the outcome of Tours.

[@ouss]

Clicbait: no what if just, that history would be different 😪

[@FlashPointHx]

People love to blow up this battle to being the savior of western civilization. This is a much more of a middle of the road view.

[@youtubeexpert2441]

the most overrated battle in history

[@FlashPointHx]

Kinda agree with you

[@sajidkaleem735]

Then no reconquista

[@teufelhunden3606]

But he didn't

[@dansmith4077]

For the algorithm.

[@zakariaalami1491]

In sum this battle isnt even a turning point in history as européens would like it to be

[@FlashPointHx]

yup nailed it

[@yhe7590]

Doubt this raid would create much significance this attack wasn’t even given by the orders of the caliph from Damascus , rather the attack on Constantinople was much larger , numerous and headed by the brother of the caliph and it would be a permanent occupation allowing further expansion into eastern and central Europe , even if by any chance France for argument sake was conquered it would over stretch the empire far away from the capital and it would be reconquered shortly after just like how Iberia was far away and isolated from the rest of the islamic world the offensive from the east was more serious and would be a permanent conversion and local rulers would be muslims.

[@FlashPointHx]

this was on the extreme logistical end of the Caliphate - but the same could have been said of the Iberian Pen,

[@KingofEuropa07]

The raid on Iberia wasn't ordered by Damascus. The raids on Egypt weren't ordered by the caliph. Yet the were both conquered. People seem to underestimate the impact raiding has on a state. Furthermore, the 'overstretched Ummayads' argument is particularly ignorant. Firstly, why does it need to be an ummayad province? It could be a local emirate or an extension of cordoba. Secondly, the fulcrum for reconquest is the organization of the Franks. If Charles Martel didn't have the legitimacy from wining the battle, or worse if he had died, I'm not so sure the Frankish kingdom could have survived. Remember, before Charles the king of the Franks was incredibly weak and the kingdom disorganized.

[@FlashPointHx]

@@KingofEuropa07 This is the strongest counter argument out there. Several people have put this forward. Iberia did start as a raid - if Ziyad was defeated at Guadalete then perhaps that would have been the decisive battle and Roderic would have been Roderic Martel

[@yhe7590]

Hazard McGee wasn’t Roderic defeated and still Iberian was reconquered ?

[@FlashPointHx]

@@yhe7590 yes thats my point - but if Roderic had won then we would now look back at the Battle of Guadalete as we look at the Battle of Tours

[@binalcensored2104]

It was never just one battle that avoid Arabs from taking Europe. They they didnt invaded Europe, because it was too poor! Except for Iberia, the rest was just frozen lands and famines. As Otomans, Islamics and Asia documents have shown, they said that Europe was so poor that the only Europe's wealth was the whites slaves. Hence the word slaves, or Slavic which meant from central Germany to eastern Europe.

[@MCorpReview]

They coulda won if they weren't so greedy. U can plunder any time if u win. 😦😢

[@FlashPointHx]

Its only hubris if they fail

[@jevinliu4658]

I have a feeling that, by this point, the muslims might be far, far too outstretched to actually maintain that territory... not sure if that's true, that's just my feeling.

[@FlashPointHx]

Very true - not to mention the Abbasid revolution in 750 was right around the corner.

[@hilohattie3681]

I used to tell my students that had not the moors failed at Tours they’d be minarets on the skylines of Europe today… Perhaps overstated but, hey! Today there ARE minarets on those skylines! Ha Ha… the decline of practicing Christianity and the Islamization of Europe IS happening. Allahu Akbar.

[@FlashPointHx]

London has a muslim major doesn't it?

[@surriyajabeen2646]

Then the ottomans would allied with the cordoba to fight Europe on two fronts

[@FlashPointHx]

Yup - that was the hope at one point

[@madhuvv8136]

Then there is no pope ,european christianity etc

[@pendragonU]

Simple, the same as Hispania but harder and faster. Eventually in any case, kicking them out of Europe where they didn't belong nor had close relatives, nor cultural links however remote. They were as absolutely disconnected to Europeans ways of Life's for THOUSANDS of years done regardless Cultural variations. Their narrow Cultural horizons were limited where the came from to just a mostly desert corner of the world _how is that for being flexible to adapt to else, but bring intolerant social customs as those migrating into Europe but not to learn or adapt, nothing to do with the more advanced and sophisticated forms of Life developed in Europe or China. They were like Huns or Vikings (these at least Europeans) OUTSIDERS, raiders from a small tribal living still still semi-sedentary very alike camel herding world. Not even their animals existed in Europe

[@2serveand2protect]

..."WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF!..." yeah - right! ...here's a "FUN"-FACT! ...IT DIDN'T EVEN MATTER! I'm looking around - here in Northern Italy - ...and there's more fucking Haji's than locals!...

[@Xaries82]

al andalus and homosexuality.if you talk about iran, afghan,then perhaps it true.but this point of history involved a lot of ally and foe.the different between harem and haram.they say harem meaning women of pleasure.no,it not.it mean a place that designated only for women,and haram(forbidden)for men.if king wishes to see his queen,they will meet elsewhere or royal chamber.if king or men step beyond that limit,guess what will happen?so there conflicting report.it start with word boy.it mean boyish servant or not yet adult man.not for sexual.you know the punishment,right?anyway,i can be fair to christian.i know you have try.just wanna let you know..

[@user-tu4ib3dv3f]

The Muslims invaded France after Poitiers and c-rushed a French army of 30,000 soldiers sent by Charlemagne, led by Guillaume au court nez and completely a-nnihilated it. Only 13 soldiers escaped, and Guillaume lost his nose. Then they d-estroyed Carcassonne and Arbonne

[@bosbanon3452]

Allah now.the best. Al Ghafiqi become a.martyr because his troops were only fought for loot not for the hereafter. The religious motivated umayyads dead with al ghafiqi , may Allah bless them. What if al Ghafiqi instructed All of his Army to retreat instead of hold their position

[@gandigooglegandigoogle7202]

the french saved Europe and christianity at Tour, that's so right.

[@justinp5661]

Bottom line, the consensus of microhistorians are correct. Charles loses; then western civilization loses. He saved us all.

[@unitor699industries]

andalusia was multireligious as for france if you were a jew...

[@nic1140]

Gustave Le Bon, “If only the Muslims had won the Battle of Tours, Paris would have been as bright as Andalusia; will be the center of civilization and intellectual. At a time when Andalusian street children could write and sing, while European kings didn't even know how to write their names."

[@nancyjanzen5676]

Answer the Slavic nations would not have become nations. They would have remained pagan tribes.

[@tommyodonovan3883]

Duse Vault

[@FlashPointHx]

Something like that =)

[@vinrusso821]

This millennial narrator talks way to fast as many do. They have this child-like voice too. And of course are obessed with homosexual's Why was that even relevant?

[@lorinapetranova2607]

Maybe people are anally retentive?

[@ryankassulke]

shitty point about homosexuality

[@deshaunjensen2454]

People nowadays love to downplay this battle and what it means for Europe because - 1.) Anglos hate that the ancestors of the French would responsible for anything positive in Europe's history 2.) Muslims are now influential and embedded in Western academia. Others who try to appear 'enlightened' and 'tolerant' to curry favor with them or to impress others 'enlightened' westerners by downplaying this battle and what it meant for Europe back then even though there are no new facts that have come up in the last 40 years to bring about such a reinterpretation. 3.) It makes the 'religion of peace' that spread mainly through conquest look bad, a whole political side in Western society has put their backing into reinterpreting how islam came to be in the first place to cast a more positive light on the history of muslims in europe , if more learn about the conquests by muslims and the killing of people in Europe, then it would make the aforementioned political side look manipulative and nefarious to Western populations around the world for being such a patron to islam spread into modern western society in the first place . That would hurt their political and social expediency.

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

Tolerant of homosexuality 😂😂😂

[@lebon2002be]

This video is Islamic/lgbt propaganda .

[@QHawk7]

✅ *Best things that would happen are* : There would be no *Temp'lars* , no cru'sades , no freema'sonry , no dark ages, no Spanish inquisition, no European colon'ial era , America would be discovered in peace, there would be no geno'cides of hundreds of millions of nat'ives in America and elsewhere, no world wars, no Roth'sch'ilds , no Breton woods world mone'tary system, no current style usu'ry banks, no F'ED, no zio'nist movement, no 9'/11, no man made epidemics , no IS'.IS , no bnkers' wars.

[@YouhavetoBelieve3347]

Those r all crimes of Zionist globalist Jews not medieval Europeans lmfao.

[@YouhavetoBelieve3347]

Ryan. - The Muslims were running the largest slave network the world had ever seen known as the Arab Slave Trade which still continues today in North Africa and the Middle East. Best believe that if Muslims discovered America slavery would’ve been 10x worse and never outlawed. Europeans brought Modern Civilization through Colonialism if u don’t like it move to the Third world and complain

[@nancyjanzen5676]

Wrong Europe would never develop out of serfdom.