Toxic Fan Culture Is Hurting Comics

[@Covaslookout]

Check out my webcomic! www.avoccomics.com/post/bam-the-last-hero-on-earth-chapter-8

[@blackincstudio2393]

5:48 facts! Underrated channel!

[@Covaslookout]

I appreciate it 🙏🏾

[@ernestholliday8914]

Agreed people need to see it as a Medium not an engine for superhero ip

[@RodneyKing-kz3ym]

There are some comic legends who were saying decades ago how they were over the buff superhero beating up the buff supervillain trope. They said all American mainstream comics entailed were buff guys in tight suits posing dynamically on a page while bearing their teeth.

[@FloofMother]

And shit like kingdom come, a serious house on serious earth, and watchmen all proved that you can do these comics without resorting to big buff men as your focal point. Comics have this issue nowadays where crack is cheaper than collecting an entire book and its volumes. It’s not a problem with writing, it’s that it’s impossible to keep up with the tie ins, the crossovers, it makes it difficult to get invested.

[@FloofMother]

True. People are big mad they got called out with this one

[@Not_cee]

If u know the history of the show u dont need to watch or read it to know this is bad and not wat da story is about

[@FloofMother]

Primary example of the exact type of shit we’re dealing with: arrogant and entitled comics “fans” who actually hate comics and everything they ever represented, and think that they can somehow criticize shit without even having basic knowledge of what goes into developing a story or even basic knowledge of the work itself. I am primarily a fallout fan, that’s probably my fandom of origin; where my passport is from, and this is the fucking mindset people have when talking about the games. They say new Vegas is good, but they don’t understand why it was good, and they negatively compare the other games to it, despite those games trying to achieve a different thematic goal. They call writers hacks, lazy, and bad, they blame everything on Todd Howard, they bitch and moan about every Bethesda made property without paying respect to the fact that Todd Howard and his nerd friends convinced Bethesda this small bankrupted IP was something special, and convinced it to let them take the time to faithfully modernize it, and they in turn let the people who created this thing they loved and resurrected finally get to create their magnum opus that was cut short due to their initial bankruptcy. The story of fallout is one of love, but that’s not the story the fandom will tell you, it’s one of greed, hate, malice, conspiracy, nepotism, injustice towards them, their demographic is under cultural attack!!! degeneracy. And we see where this mindset inevitably leads. Even the most benign, almost humorous thing, a geek getting mad, has deadly radicalization potential when people who have bad intentions and know how to shape people to achieve those goals get their hands on them. Although, on a brighter note, if you look at fallout 76’s player count and cross reference that with the user base of no mutants allowed (used to be a forum for older fallout fans like me but turned into fallout’s equivalent of kiwifarms), there is a story of hope to be told there.

[@Not_cee]

U dont need 2 watch da new tmnt movie to know the tmnt story to know this story is not good

[@FloofMother]

Yes you literally do, that’s how critique works, consumption without the context of everything else that went into that movie is kind of missing the entire point

[@Not_cee]

And early 2000

[@Comicsluvr]

Wow. I think that you totally missed the bus on this topic. I'm not sure how...maybe because you're NOT a comic book fan? Not sure...but please allow me to enlighten you. 1) You mentioned nostalgia and described it like it was a bad thing. Do you know WHY American Muscle Cars are still a thing? Nostalgia. Why are Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and the rest of the heroes from the earliest days of comics still popular? Nostalgia. Do you know why familiar sounds and smells make us think good thoughts? Nostalgia. Stop treating it like it's a bad thing when nostalgia is literally the thing that keeps many movie and comic franchises going. 2) The reason that so many fans are griping about things happening in comics, movies, and television shows is not due to any sort of phobia...it's nostalgia. Remember that thing that you were knocking a minute ago? People have read Superman comics for two generations or more. Why did they do that for so long? Because they liked the way the character looked, the way he acted, and the example he made. Have there been bad Superman comics? Sure...plenty of them...but they can't ALL be gems. The idea of 'Superman is a good guy who uses his powers for good and sometimes that means stopping bad guys by beating them up' has carried the franchise for decades. It's why people buy the books when they're younger and they want to see that trend continue. Try writing a year of Superman comics where all he does is do domestic stuff with Lois, give motivating talks at schools, and fly around rescuing cats in trees. The sales will plummet because there's no challenge...no antagonist. 3) Several gay characters came out in comics decades ago and nobody said a word because nobody cared. Nobody cared because they didn't make being gay the main part of the character. The characters were superheroes who happened to be gay, rather than gays who happened to have powers. If the fans wanted to read gay YA fiction, then they'd BUY gay YA fiction. The 'I'm Not Starfire' series is a perfect example. The crash and burn of so many characters over the past decade or so show that fans are fine with change, but you need to introduce them in a way that makes sense within the world that they already read. Imagine if you're reading Spider-Man and the comic shows two pages of Spider-Man and twenty of some new character that nobody has ever heard of. Do that month after month and see what happens. Fans read Spider-Man to READ SPIDER-MAN...not as a platform for another, unrelated story. This is why Miles Morales is still called Miles Morales...because fans refuse to accept him as Spider-Man. It's also why nobody cares about Ms Marvel. 4) Most fans, myself included, see comics and the movies and television shows based on them as entertainment. We read and watch them to be entertained...not lectured to. We get plenty of that in real life. Real Life is what we're trying to GET AWAY FROM when we read comics and watch movies. If we've grown to like a particular type of hero or villain, then why is that a bad thing? If we want all (or at least most) of our characters to be muscular and attractive then so what? Stop messing with OUR chosen form of entertainment just because YOU think we need to 'try something different.'

[@Covaslookout]

I think you missed the point of my argument, nostalgia becomes a bad thing when you live in the past so much that you can’t/won’t accept the future or new stuff. Also REAL comic fans are not looking at Superman comics as a real staple anymore. Superman died once he was revived after Doomsday. Superman’s true peak was in the 50s and 60s. Like most superhero comics. Also I see comics as a form of entertainment as well and love it thats why I don’t understand how these ppl online only care to hate the comics they don’t like. Like you said if you want to read Gay YA then do that. But if you like gay YA you shouldnt have to feel the need to shit only straight comics because it’s not gay YA. You see what I mean? And that’s why these guy online do. They shit on the comics they do not like because it’s not what they are used to. And that’s why nostalgia is killing the industry. Also I am a true comics fan. If you’re only referencing superhero comics as your favorites in comics then you got some growing up to do lol

[@MrV8696]

I couldn’t say it any better. If people have issues with these certain comics, they are always called phobic which makes no sense. They don’t like the push of narratives or forced liberal pick of the day. Nicely done

[@Comicsluvr]

Look at the sales of comics from a decade or more ago versus now. Look at the popularity of superhero movies from that same period. How were they doing then versus how are they doing now? Obviously, the fans are not happy and they're voting with their wallets. What's changed in that time? Tim Drake is gay even though that was never hinted at in earlier comics. Iceman is gay...also never hinted at for half a century. How have the fans reacted? The sales of the comics prove that they're not happy. What about Harley and Poison Ivy? Nobody cares if they're a couple because A) Their sexuality was never clearly established earlier in their careers and B) They don't make it the central part of the story. Sudden changes to established characters are also not going over well. I mentioned Miles Morales, who STILL isn't accepted as Spider-Man by many fans. Is he a bad character? No...but he's not Spider-Man. If the creators had wanted to create his character as a unique personality, then that would have been fine. However, instead they decided to tack him onto an established title that many fans have loved for decades. How's the new Hulk doing? Does anyone care? The She-Hulk show was a disaster because they stepped so far away from the beloved character that they drove fans away. Here's another way to look at it: Take a comic you've enjoyed since you were a kid. It could be Scooby Doo or whatever. You read the book as a kid and it's fun. You continue to read it as you grow up because it gives you a feeling of comfort. You don't need to worry about explaining each character because they're established and familiar to you. Then the creators decide they want to create a new book with different characters. They have them do cameos in your beloved comic to introduce them. You have a chance to get to know them and figure out how they act. Then the new characters launch into their own book and now you have two that you enjoy. That's the way it's been done for ages. A new character makes a few appearances and if the fans seem to like them, they try going solo. Now imagine that instead of this, the creators of your beloved Scooby Doo decide to retcon everything for no reason other than they have a new staff who didn't like the old way of doing things. The abrupt changes with no explanation would feel just a bit off-putting, wouldn't they? This can be said about almost anything from books to movies to houses and cars. People like what they like and telling them that liking those things is bad is NOT the way to bring them to your project. How many of the radically altered projects over the past decade or so worked out? Velma? How about Rings of Power? Birds of Prey? How about Captain America, agent of Hydra? Brie Larson as Captain Marvel? It's not just KZbinrs hating on these projects...it's the fans. Oh, and how many times have 'toxic fans' been blamed for a project's failure the past few years? Telling the people that support your industry that they're wrong is a bad move. I just wish more people IN the industry would see that.@@Covaslookout

[@Lordtatmanscomics]

​@@Comicsluvrdon't forget the low page rates and comic shops that are closing. I've been buying comics since 1978 and have never seen the hobby this low. There is a reason why Eric July and evs are making millions of dollars and Mags Vissiagio is online begging for dollars. Somehow weird blue haired twitter activists infested the industry replacing people who actually cared about the hobby. Creating some of the worst comics I've ever seen. Social justice is not good storytelling. I've seen 4 comic shops close near me and it's not because the industry is cranking out their best work.

[@FloofMother]

You’re doing a massive disservice to the characters of Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman by saying that they’re only still popular because of nostalgia, and comparing them to American muscle cars, to the point where I question if you’re actually a fan of comics, because that’s a comparison someone who hates comics would make. These characters are popular because they’re compelling, not because of nostalgia. Batman came out nearly 100 years ago. It is impossible for that character to only be enduring because of nostalgia.