TR909 Separate Outputs ... plus other corrections

[@i.shadrin]

909 main out tone is what i considered as a real vintage 909 sound))) now i know the trick, thanks a lot!!

[@DexterousMusic1]

You see, no matter how long I have been messing with synths and drum machines, I always learn something new. I only ever used a separate out to effect one instrument. I don’t have an rd9, but I do have a drumbrute and an rd6, both with separate outs, so I know what I’m gonna be doing today. Great video as usual

[@fullspecwarrior]

Such a brilliant bit of information and the sort of thing you tend not to see elsewhere. Thanks.

[@prinzbach]

Great video! It's good you took the time to clarify stuff on previous videos. I always enjoy nerding about things!

[@jtru3640]

Thank you for making these videos. We are learning a lot with you

[@Shred_The_Weapon]

The inclusion of separate audio outs on many classic 80s drum machines is why I splurged back in 2018 on a Behringer Xenyx mixer with 16 ins. I had a lingering fantasy - not necessarily of having a 909 per se, but - of having a machine with those outs. Too bad I never put the mixer to that use and that it gave out on me after less than six years of service.

[@arkasonus7678]

Drum machines should always have separate outputs.

[@DominicArkwright]

For sure

[@luisbarrera5740]

Can you elaborate as to why?

[@HenritheHorse]

@@luisbarrera5740 So you can process, pan and level the drums individually.

[@luisbarrera5740]

@@HenritheHorse I ask because I have an SP-16 with individual outs. However, I can process every stem individually without resorting to all the outputs

[@Tripwelleverday]

@@luisbarrera5740what a dream sampler so easy to use

[@alexwestconsulting]

Thx much to all the commenters on the previous video that caught these subtleties. Someone else mentioned that the TR-09 might have had compression engaged.

[@StarskyCarr]

It doesn’t. :)

[@scratchanitch]

Looking at the master volume circuit in the service manual, the signal is going through a couple of (dc-blocking?) capacitors so it's not surprising this affects the sound. It also looks like the phase on the mixed outs is inverted. On the plus-side, the weaker thump may have saved a few club PA speakers...

[@StarskyCarr]

I think it helps stops popping when switching on/off - someone told me that’s the reasons it’s on the RD9

[@NosebergEatzbugsVonShekelstein]

With individual outs you can route instruments into their own distortion or overdrive circuits, and make them sound dehhhhrty.

[@mattjbatkinson1911]

I hope one day I’ll have another one. I’ve had 2 over the last 30 years. Sold them both on different occasions and regretted it straight away.

[@rossbeaton]

Also phase cancellation from using the same noise source - flip phase 180 on either snare or clap on one of the mixer channels

[@wackerburg]

*I never really used the summed output on my 909. It's much more fun when you can actually use panning and effects in this flexible way. Or sidechaning, proper EQing to taste and whatnot.*

[@PorchBass]

The rd9 sequencer is clearly heavily based on the rd8 hence the accent issue on manual triggers. Not a problem at all. Bit different to the 909 which has the separate trigger buttons and master accent on top

[@lars-fenin]

i have a question regarding the rd 8: does it have the same reaction when triggering sounds with the buttons..? never noticed that... (i mean the difference shown with the rd 9 with the tap/hold button)

[@PorchBass]

@lars-fenin I always use the trigger button or step sequence. From memory if you real time record with the step buttons as trigger then yes the accent button is used for accent

[@lars-fenin]

@@PorchBass thanx.. so holding the tap/hold button while triggering a sound via trigger button makes it louder like in the rd 9? i only use step programming so far and doin accents via the step input.

[@klinkske]

Nice to learn this. I wish you could do a 16 bar pattern on all three and we have to say where the 909 is used. so 3 * 16 bar pattern on each.

[@moritz_schoenermann]

They are all good. For the price tags I would never getting the original, which I once had. Thanks for the demo! :) I have and quite off topic question concerning old moogs... Are their oscillators/wave forms the same? Does the square wave from the Prodigy looks like the ones on the Mini, MG-1, Micromoog or Liberation? Thanks! :)

[@StarskyCarr]

No they’re all different. Even Minimoog have different oscillators. The first version were very temperature dependent which was addressed in later models for example. The Prodigy VCO isnt the same as the Minimoog or the voyager etc.

[@12bitamigo]

For some reason its always easier mixing down out of a mix out, whether its an old sampler or whatever. Sending to individual outs creates more work trying to balance the mix, even though it may sound a bit better

[@ExpectResistance]

Nice to do this follow up. My 909 sounds different if coming from the Left output to the Right output, particularly noticeable on the hats and cymbal. It’s not just a hifi-lofi thing but quite noticeably different levels too. I wonder if yours has the same? Totally agree on various tracks using a different approach. I’m pretty sure the Robert Hood Minimal Nation stuff sounds like it comes from the main out. Pushing the bass up on a mixer when using main out is a really nice thud allowing bass from something like the SH101 to sit alongside. Nice videos 🖤

[@SLBD0000000]

the level difference is there because the various sounds are panned differently when main outs are used as stereo pair.

[@ExpectResistance]

@@SLBD0000000ha!! Of course!! I feel pretty dumb haha. I literally have looked at that for years and thought, weird to have a stereo out as it’s mono. 🤦‍♀️

[@unclemick-synths]

0:42 I don't know about your laptop speakers but on my phone's speaker it's as if a veil has been lifted. Was that for DJs who used a drum machine to bridge/fill? If the Camden Palace was anything to go by those direct outs would have shredded eardrums. I never went to the bar there because the dance floor was the only place where those lethal tweeters were merely on "stun" 😂

[@MadelnMachines]

I'd love to see what you think of the Jomox Alpha Base Mk2

[@StarskyCarr]

I’ve had a play but only on their stand in Superbooth - loved all their stuff, but never got it into the studio.

[@MadelnMachines]

@@StarskyCarr They’ve done pretty much no marketing for the mk2 aside from trade shows that happened ages ago. Maybe they’ll send you one to try

[@richardsomerville5725]

It the only way to get a proper sound out of the 909-808 by using the sep outs - individual eq - fxs - use faders on the board to bring sounds in and out quiker than on the machine itself.The TR-8s has indvidual outs in pairs so use them as well ;happy thumping 🙂

[@alfiedotwtf]

Woah. Ok, thank you. To be honest I didn't actually know there would have been a difference. Time to order more cables 💩

[@jizzmaster2000]

Massive difference

[@paulfrieda6486]

Hi Starsky, you are right ❤ The OG909 main out sounds „nice“. I dig that. Can you please make a second pack from the main outs + tweaking the BD a bit more? That would be wonderful ❤ Thank You ❤

[@StarskyCarr]

Done :)

[@paulfrieda6486]

@ 🥹 😍 Thank you!

[@TorstenSommer-c3p]

If you press tap/Hold on the RD-9 you can set the global accents for the whole pattern or a certain step, that´s the reason why the kick (or any other instrument) gets "louder" by pressing tap/hold.

[@StarskyCarr]

Yeah but it’s odd that you have to hold it to get the attack on single notes. Or maybe it is just louder.

[@user82938]

Manufacturers like to throw all these little things in to keep us reading forum posts and watching videos instead of making music.

[@leftmono1016]

It’s always your own choice, but I do know what you mean.

[@i.shadrin]

😂

[@bob-rogers]

Interesting. It seems like in addition to the different EQ, the mix output sounds like maybe it has less dynamic range or something.

[@StarskyCarr]

Yeah a bit squished. Whether that’s a result of the band limiting or another thing… who knows?

[@Sensorium_Studios]

Does the same hold true if you re: bass reduction if you come out of the main outs with only the kick solo’d?

[@greenturmalin]

it's a simple design thing, main out on the 909 has a highpass filter which cuts some lows..

[@Johnsormani]

Back in the day (80s) I had a 505 which I modded with separate outputs . Sadly I sold it at some point.

[@StarskyCarr]

I had the same thing.

[@TheIndustrialRetrospective]

Separate outs give the sound a certain "wet" feel to it! Hard to explain.

[@basiledaudet5774]

It would have been nice to compare with the rd9 set to authentic mode. 😊

[@StarskyCarr]

The only difference is the kick pitch bend and the hats tuning. I showed the hats in the previous video. So close as to be the same. The kick in the OG is a bit more ‘boingy’ not so hi fi.

[@Barefoot_Joe]

That's not the only differences at all matey, there's the transient designer compressor and filter, enhanced swing precision settings, polyrhythm (individual steps per instrument channel), pattern step beyond 16 steps, ​parameter locking, pitch and pitch depth for bass drum, pitch for hi hat, and more. Authentic mode tries to lock everything to old school 909 settings removing these modern conveniences @@StarskyCarr

[@StarskyCarr]

@@Barefoot_Joeerr.. that’s all in the first video 😉

[@InFamousProductions]

Wow. Econ on the crappy iPad speaker there is a big difference.

[@banksideleopards2791]

I was very suprised on your previous video how the kick drum of the RD9 was so different from the 909, I get it now... Much better, very closed from the 909

[@skinnyhastrup4614]

I wish the RD-9 had a tad more bd-decay in all three videos. Compared to the Rolands it's short like a Smart car 😁

[@StarskyCarr]

I might have been able to get it closer. I did notice a longer tail on it that muddied the mix when I got certain parts of it sounding right. Perhaps the decay envelope is slightly different. .. or perhaps I should’ve tried harder 😂🤦‍♂️

[@tunnis7us]

holy shit! I haven't seen anybody demo the individual outputs and main output that they sound so different. Definetly the single output sounds alot more rich while the master sounds super bland. I have lot of 909 samples and definetly most are from the mainoutput I now see since they sounds like it, but something is missing. Perhaps the issue is that they wanted to save money when processing all samples through one output andthat's why it sounds so bland. Since the cymbals are all sampled would be nice to know how they were sampled from real cymbal and hihat which are known since Hoshiai has told them, but the method how you make the cymbals sound like they sound in 909 I can't figure out. When I test to smaple cymbals I can't get even close to the sounds they are so different from the real cymbals.

[@mybachhertzbaud3074]

I can hear the difference on my fire tablet connected to my car stereo. However, it seems from my experience that the average listener really do not care.🤔

[@StarskyCarr]

Almost everyone doesn’t give a sh!t … in fact in a track absolutely no-one could care less. This is pure geeky fun.

[@logiclust]

I still prefer the drum station

[@leftmono1016]

That was a great module 👍

[@StarskyCarr]

Oooff!! haha. Great idea if a bit noisy. My mates got one for live stuff. He loves it.

[@arkasonus7678]

Novation should bring it back.

[@jasonakagecko]

One thing I have learned is if you are a true synth head buy the original or you will never be satisfied with a clone.🤪

[@LocaliLLocano]

If I had the desk space I would get the din sync RE-909. The closest clone with cherry switches. At this point I just run my D16 drumazon outputs from my UFX II into Chandler, Neve compressors and Toft EQs. Analog enough for me. I really do wish for more desk space one day

[@StarskyCarr]

If you use them and they pay their way in either productivity, creativity or financially it’s just an instrument (like a vintage cello). If they’re left on a shelf, but looked after, serviced, maintained and brought back to life then those collectors are also doing everyone a favour. Keeping them in the gene pool as it were! I like to try them to see if the hype is true about new clones/copies etc. I inevitably end up having them fixed…. They’re always sold as serviced and always have issues! … so I have a love hate relationship with vintage stuff. But personally I’m definitely limited by finances. I’ll never own a Jupiter 8, no matter for how short (they come and they go - more of a temporary custodian than owner). And the System 8 is a genius bit of kit if a bit flimsy and ugly! That fulfills the JP8 thing… But yeah… if a JP8 popped its head around the corner for 10% the going rate I’d be much more satisfied 😂

[@wackerburg]

I just went with the original unit because I wanted a 909. Not something that is close to an unknown level. Yes, it hurts a little due to the high prices, but that does not last long. The money isn't gone. And the prices won't go down. So it does not really matter, at least to me. The best side effect of getting the 909 was that the "inner search" was instantly over. And a higher price tag really made me think this through. Whether I REALLY wanted it or not. And I did 🙂 \m_

[@wackerburg]

@@StarskyCarr I do not make music professionally. On purpose, because I enjoy it so much. So having these instruments is purely my amateur-hobby. "Amateur" in its true meaning -> doing something for the love of it. THat being said, I never had any problems with my vintage units, especially the ones that came "fully serviced". YOu have to know who did the service and I certainly trust German engineering and workmanship here. Cheers!

[@leftmono1016]

@@StarskyCarr- I had a JP8 back in the 90’s. Cost me £800 plus a Mackie line mixer if memory serves 😀 Also had a JP6, a friend had a JP4 but he wouldn’t sell it to me. Desperately wanted all three Jupiters but it wasn’t to be. Great days though.

[@Bigger-Circuitry-Bigger-SOUND]

the best 909 is a 909 sampled in an Akai s900 and run through the s900 separate outputs IF U KNOW U KNOW 😉

[@StarskyCarr]

Regret selling my S950 but needs must and I needed something with more memory at the time.

[@Bigger-Circuitry-Bigger-SOUND]

@ you are in time to get one fairly cheap but please no video about or you will spike the price on web, tho people believe wrongly that the real 909 is after a lot of tracks but the s900/950 is the real instrument used

[@dontcallmejon]

I recently pre ordered a NAVA 9 clone I sure hope it properly mimics the 909 sequencer and routing. Edit: That's interesting about the RD9, because I AB with the stock Ableton kit when I first got it and put it in the closet because it sounded so flimsy compare to the Ableton samples, also we going to talk about how strong the TR-09 sounds, no wonder they are going for 1K used 🤣