Track day Tips - Trail Braking

Рет қаралды 12,800

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 47

@vijayam1 2 ай бұрын

18 mins of pure gold. Getting to know these tips from the experts, the nuances, the mistakes they make, such humble and jolly folks.

@NHlocal 2 ай бұрын

Thank you Jonathan and Steve! Really great information, cheers! Keep yourselves safe! 😃👍❤🏍🏁 Randy

@astridmiller7938 Ай бұрын

love this..having appreciation for talent and experience

@nickrider5220 2 ай бұрын

Brogey was a very good racer, saw him a good few times - he knows what he's talking about 👍🏻 JR is even faster, but hasn't spent ages coaching riders 🙂

@jpmotorsport4728 2 ай бұрын

Such a great instructional vlog Johnathan, and to have Steve on was a great treat 👍🏽🙏🏽😎🏍🏁Thanks Guys 👍🏽

@noblaw7595 2 ай бұрын

That was a weird explanation of counter-steering. Counter-steering is not some crazy trick technique, it's what you do every time you lean the bike. It's a basic property of any bicycle or motorcycle. Of course it's generally subtle, which is why many people don't even know that it exists, and other people have a bad understanding of it. Presenting it as "you lock the steering on the left to go right" is a bad explanation. There's a super famous video called "Most People Don't Know How Bikes Work" by Veritasium which helps to visualize it on a bicycle. Apart from that, thanks for the tips. The anecdotes about track day risk takers were funny.

@H05TYL 2 ай бұрын

I think the point was he doesn't think it's something you need to specifically focus on doing - like if you can ride a bike or a bicycle you're doing it anyway

@OilyNinja 2 ай бұрын

Ya countersteering is so misexplained, I tryed to understand it when I first started riding at 34 years old. I gave up and just treated it like a super heavy bicycle and I learned very quickly and with only two track days under my belt I’m knocking on the door of intermediate level. Actually my pace IS intermediate but my obvious lack of experience, poor body position and inconsistent performance makes me a solid novice for the moment! Lol

@solo_dingo 2 ай бұрын

Yeah I don't think it's explained well very often. It's physics at work moreso than pushing on a handlebar. Though I think countersteer is a misleading term and when we are taught about countersteer we are told to push on a bar end. So, that's what most folk think of when it's mentioned which is what they're meaning here.

@samanthagregoryurich4167 2 ай бұрын

Counter-steering is just for getting the bike to start leaning in the right direction at turn in. You turn the handle bars the opposite way only briefly to get the bike to tip in the direction you want to go but you ease off counter-steering when you are nearing the amount of lean you want...and then little or no pressure on the bars as you go through the turn. Simon Crafar talks a bit about this in Motovudu but he doesn't emphasize it. If you want to turn in fast (as some turns require) weight on the pegs and body weight won't do it for you. I'm guessing that it's so natural for you guys that you're just not aware you are doing it.

@deanmsimpson 2 ай бұрын

Great explanation 👍

@grindking4083 2 ай бұрын

glad your blue team bud, love the teach and learns!

@Squiserker 2 ай бұрын

Always amazing to get tips from the best! You are both killing it 🔥

@Ian.Martin 2 ай бұрын

Thanks Jonathan, that was really affirming. 👍

@fivedotsdave9723 2 ай бұрын

I was told by a very quick road rider, when you lean into a left hand bend and you think the bike is getting too close to the center white line give the right side bar a gentle wee pull and it will force a touch extra lean and should help steer away from the white line, this can be tried at slower corner speeds to get the feel of how it works.

@shiftlofi 2 ай бұрын

Thank you very much! Very informative.

@m1cky6 2 ай бұрын

Unreal that you take the time do these videos, that was awesome 👌. Cheers

@dhjorgenson 2 ай бұрын

Great stuff. Thanks for this discussion

@garyhutson6361 2 ай бұрын

I had Steve teach me at mallory at JW trackday. Great guy 👍🏼

@franklinwilkerson2061 2 ай бұрын

I just wanna learn how to dangle my leg and get my foot back on the peg just before full lean. I get nervous that I'll miss the peg completely and stuff my toes in the front sprocket or something. I know I'm just posing but it's so fun especially if you're backing it in a bit.

@neilhamilton3445 2 ай бұрын

Thanks Jonny - really interesting video

@nathanblanchard9454 2 ай бұрын

Hi Jonny I hope you're doing okay after this weekend. I was hopeful you could make a video on body position while under hard braking? If I don't grip the tank with both legs I can't keep my weight on the back of the seat and I slide forward, If I slide forward to the tank and get a butt cheek off the seat my hips don't come off parallel, which then I have to re adjust my position after I've done my braking and its not one smooth motion. I see you pros dangle your leg so are you using your arms more to stop yourself flying forward over the front of the bike? This puts more pressure on the front? I always thought you want to keep as much pressure off the front as possible. Hopefully you can answer some of these 😅 cheers mate get well soon!

@Hiccup77 2 ай бұрын

Thats why i now use a thumb brake and not so much on the front anymore. My 6pot pfm for mass stop and thumb to scrub the last bit and help turn my bike

@BenVarley74 Ай бұрын

So you trail brake in every corner regardless how slow and tight to the apex and just modulate the front brake pressure?

@occrash5616 2 ай бұрын

Mistaking the 4 wheeled car concept of countersteering with motorcycle countersteering. Two wheel vehicles cannot initiate a turn by turning the handlebar in the direction you want to go, there is a very brief moment where you turn the handlebar in the opposite to provoque leaning. (See veritasium channel on bicycle physics). Whe you move your body you also initiate lean because your handlebar briefly turns in the opposite direction even with no direct input. You can see this when a rider falls of a bike and the bike keeps correcting itself straight. Its the secondary effect of trail and rake angles. Well known, well studied and well proved in academia.

@sp00ky1969 2 ай бұрын

So the trail braking tip is don’t do it… Trailing the brakes into a turn keeps weight on the front, helps to turn the bike (geometry) and increases grip (keeping the front tyre loaded). It’s a good thing to do and it’s safer. At the extreme of this exists the danger of breaking traction that they refer to in the video but that’s the extreme… Funny that JR didn’t seem to know what counter-steering is - obviously one of those guys that can ride to a ridiculously high level but doesn’t necessarily understand how he does it (not as unusual as you might think). Back in the AMA days, with heavy bikes that didn’t want to turn, they used to counter-steer so hard that they would bend the bars. If you want to turn very fast then body position and peg weighting alone won’t do it.

@YordanHristooov 2 ай бұрын

Tom from i2i also said many racers are very bad at reading and can’t explain at all how they go that fast through somewhere. He also said that police instructors don’t know ho to brake properly 😂 and they teach all the police patrols after that claim to ride perfect and they teach others

@sp00ky1969 2 ай бұрын

@@YordanHristooov an old expression from professional golf was that to be exceptionally good you had to either be very stupid or very clever.

@martinturner2730 2 ай бұрын

What I took from it is that don’t do it unless you’re prepared to fund going over the limit 🤷🏻‍♂️ think they both understand that a crashed bike costs more than most can afford on a regular basis & learning to carry corner speed and accelerate correctly will contribute to going faster much more

@sp00ky1969 2 ай бұрын

@@martinturner2730Sure, but it’s actually safer with a bit of trailbraking than braking in a straight line, coming off the brakes and going into the turn. As he said though, it gets trickier as you go faster (what doesn’t) and doing it at the limit is, well, at the limit… No trackday guys are trailbraking like JR would though. 😂 It was funny that he didn’t know what counter steering is - it just shows that you don’t necessarily have to understand something in order to be able to do it really well. I bet if the force through the bars was measured, he’d be surprised how much he actually is counter steering.

@sp00ky1969 2 ай бұрын

I also get the feeling he has more of an old-fashioned approach based on some of his comments, foot position being Ann example.

@J.D-sh5nx 2 ай бұрын

JR, eres el mejor de la historia de SBK pero estás perdiendo tu última oportunidad de ser campeón del mundo nuevamente, pienso en mi humilde opinión que deberías volver con KAWASAKI, es la moto que conoces y con la que a pesar de las dificultades podías luchar, vuelva a tu esencia, aún estás a tiempo de escribir la última página en este difícil y competitivo campeonato. Un abrazo y deseándote siempre todo lo mejor. Ojalá vuelvas a vestir los colores de KAWASAKI, aunque sea en el equipo satélite pero con tu ZX 10 RR

@flyingdutchy01 2 ай бұрын

I feel like Jonathan has learned just as much as me in this video. Brogan is one hell of an instructor!

@alanhowatson3462 2 ай бұрын

Baywatch Brogan 😊

@YordanHristooov 2 ай бұрын

Guys I think you do a very bad job at counter steering advice and I’ll give you an example! I’m novice and I was at brands. Accelerating out of last turn for start finish straight while I was still handing off on the right and keeping the bike up I couldn’t accelerate as hard as I wanted. I’ve asked a guy who was racing and he just told me: have you counter steer a bit more ? And next session I just pushed my right handle bard and pulled the left a bit more and I was able to so easily stay full on the gas through there 🎉

@martinturner2730 2 ай бұрын

Have you actually looked at who you’re arguing with? 😂 I’m no more experienced than you, but just because something worked once, doesn’t mean that these two don’t know what they’re on about

@YordanHristooov 2 ай бұрын

@@martinturner2730 they often don’t know 😄 Many ravers that are milion times faster than me can’t explain why they are so fast and give general and basic info. They just do things and they work 😅 Not everyone it’s great at teaching in his field. Another thing is I’m not really arguing with them haha. They said some very relatable things about the novice pace and the lack of speed on entry and also hard on the brakes and killing all the speed. I worked on that but managed to overcome it only at my last session and only 3 corners. I’m watching because I’m learning! Also then Johnny said if you pull and push you just gonna crash but are they teaching only people who ride on the limit or who ?

@jeremysturgeon3667 2 ай бұрын

9:51 don't miss this part

@clicli9591 2 ай бұрын

Can you trail brake with ABS on?

@franklinwilkerson2061 2 ай бұрын

Of course.

@gregsmith9470 2 ай бұрын

Been doing trackdays for yrs , unfortunately to get really good u have to crash and more than once , u need to push untill u crash bearing in mind uv got a good setup and good tyres but u need to feel the limit , it's all about feel through bar peg an ass