Trading Update V, Hanger Bays and Shuttle Sizes - Stationeers

[@TallinuTV]

Each frame is 2x2x2 meters, so having a height adjustment of 1 change the arrow height by half a frame makes perfect sense. ;)

[@snipusmaximus]

Yeah atmospherics do work quickly if you have buttload of pipes feeding the input... If the pipe was down to one pipe for input, it would take 20 minutes+ to empty out that room

[@JoelleTheAbsurdist]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGjaaImheL6FkM0

[@snipusmaximus]

Yeah, i saw that clip a while back, but if be curious to compare the pump vs turbo pump vs regulators vs filtration/other atmospherics-based units Especially when i run a parallel filtration system, i see that my large surge tanks get sucked dry within moments...im pretty sure that filtrations are based upon number of intake/input pipes Ive probably detonated a few times with series filtrations too many times :)

[@TheGooEater]

Why would you use passive vents huh? No matter how many pumps, regulators or filtration units you use, you'll be limited by passive vents. They only equalize pressure in pipe and grid cell they facing. You want to use active vents to get that decompression going.

[@JoelleTheAbsurdist]

If this were a single cell decompression, using active vents would be much quicker, however, because the room is so large, and enclosed, moving atmosphere using passive vents with a pump, is no slower than if the room were one cell squared larger. Equalization occurs at the interface between each cell, just a quickly as between an atmospheric cell, and an atmospheric network, except the network is about 1000 litres in volume, meaning a single tick equalization at low pressure, would be below the rounding error.

[@unit0007]

@@JoelleTheAbsurdist What he means is that with passive vents the max amount of gas that can move from hangar to pipe per tick is the amount needed to equalize the pressure between the two. With using active vents with large rooms there is an exponential dropoff in flow rate as the pressure in the hangar drops, the same issue as with using passive vents. However there is a massive disparity of scale. On any given tick, at most the amount of gas that the passive vents can move into the pipe is the total pipe volume of "hangar pressure gas". Just for example lets say that hangar is at 20kPa and infinitely large, and pipe is 200 sections total. Then max passive vent transfer per tick (with infinite passive vents in an infinitely large room) is 2000 liters (total volume of pipe) of 20kPa gas. Where as with active vents you are actively taking gas from the hangar blocks. So single active vent would move 10.1325 kPa of the 8000 liter source block atmosphere. That comes out to equivalent of 4053 liters of 20kPa gas. Even if the passive airflow inside the hangar can't fully replace the air that the active vent keeps grabbing from the source block, the difference in scale between active vent and passive vent is so great that in our example case active vent would need to be "input starved" by 50% in order to bring them down to passive vent level. And that's just with one active vent. If you don't want to believe a guy called TheGooEater, I can't blame you. But to see for yourself you can do an experiment, with 4 active vents. One in each corner of the hangar, so they don't starve each others inputs. And see how long it takes to pull a vacuum, compared to using passive vents.

[@JoelleTheAbsurdist]

@@unit0007 First of all, you have to remember that this is before the phase change update, and before the twerks to the atmosphere mechanics, which changed several aspects. The reason it doesn't really matter if you use active or passive vents, isn't the exchange of contents on the cell occupied by the vent, its the exchange of contents by the adjacent cells, with the cells adjacent to them. The simulation does a poor job simulating a fluid, and as a result, causes the "atmosphere" to behave more like a semi gelatinous liquid, Cells equalize once per tick with one another, but because the game cannot determine adjacency of the cells, several cells equalize out of sync to one another... ie, cell 3x3x3(assuming it is a corner block surrounded on two sides with a wall) will have the equalization API called four times, once when it itself is indexed, and three times when the block 3x3x2 is called, 3x2x3 is called, and 2x3x3 is called. This means the cell can never fully depressurize to zero, so at some point, the game has to look at the cell, se how little gas is in it, then say, good enough and delete the rest. But the delete is fractional. The vent sits on the interface of 3x3x3 and 4x3x3 drawing from 3x3x3, but to draw from 2x3x3 and 1x3x3, the contents of the 3 cells most equalize through the chain before being up-taken by the vent. Because of this at low pressures, the majority of the wait time, is not the vents in-taking atmosphere, it waiting for the API call to decide the pressure in the adjacent cells are low enough to give up on. Bringing down the pressure form 101kpa to around 0.5kpa, would be sped up by active vents... by a small fraction of time, but decreasing low pressure from cells insulated by other cells to a vacuum, would not increase, it is independent of whatever method you use. This has all changed since the inclusion of powered vents.

[@unit0007]

@@JoelleTheAbsurdist When equalization function is called on cell A, it absolutely makes a massive difference, whether the neighboring cell has zero pressure versus half of cell A pressure. And once the hangar atmosphere block drops under the 10.1324 kPa limit of the active vent, then the active vent just takes all the gas in that block and moves it to the pipe, every tick. Meaning that when the equalization functions are called for the cells to equalize, the neighbors will always be equalizing to a vacuum. Which is better than equalizing to whatever the passive vent left there.

[@JoelleTheAbsurdist]

@@unit0007 They don't equalize to zero, they fractionalize and only fall to zero when they decay. The evaporate to zero function is not instantaneous, it's a decay function.

[@MyDarkspyro]

The 2 X 2 center was a beta thing and removed

[@JoelleTheAbsurdist]

Too bad, a 2x2 would allow for an even widthed pad while still being centred... WON'T SOMEONE THINK ABOUT THE OCDERS!

[@Rukkus333]

Have you tried using Large Powered Vents?

[@bulwulffcristole3235]

At the end of your video you spend some time complaining about the time it takes to wait for traders to come and go. However, I would argue that, in a survival situation when you need a particular type of gas say oxygen or water on Venus, and you can only support a simple 3x3 landing pad and a small satellite then that timer has meaning because it becomes a survival challenge to make it until a trader shows that can use your pad. If you're fully established, not really needing anything just want to trade for the sake of it and have full facilities and such, then the timer is much more meaningless. I personally never run out of things to do and I generally play Venus or Vulcan on Stationeer difficulty and have done so several times with humans and aliens. Robots is great for creative but completely removes the whole challenge aspect so I don't play with them actively. In any case, thanks for running all of the tests as this will help me design out my own cargo hangar. I really do hope they fixed the issue with large spaces though because previously, in spaces greater than 9x9 I've found that during storms and sometimes randomly entire areas decompress or do wonky things. That was many updates ago and I tend to build much smaller spaces now but might be worth testing out too.

[@JoelleTheAbsurdist]

My survival play-throughs are all stationeer difficulty, and on Venus, I survived on the off gassing of ore refinement, no AC, no... weezwart plant thing... whatever it's called. Stationeers is not really a challenge when figure out the mechanics and where to exploit the system, it's just a hassle.

[@unit0007]

I have to absolutely agree. Just recently I had a situation where I could not get a comfortable amount of water stored in my base. I was constantly running out. I would run all my smelting from H2 combustor, to suppliment the water ice I was bringing in from mining. And yet my character was drinking it all. He so thirsty, you'd think he'd be simping on onlyfans. Fuiyoh! So watching my water reserves dwindle, while waiting for the right trader to appear did bring tension and suspense to the game. And obviously I wasn't just sitting there waiting for the traders to refresh. I was doing normal base stuff: mining, smelting, tending the crops, analyzing the genes, etc. And every 10 minutes or so I would check the trader log, to see if a water seller was in the system. When you're busy doing all manner of stationeering that trader refresh time goes by pretty fast. The problem with not playing the game, and just booting the game to creative to test out a narrow slice of the content, is that you don't get a good picture of how that element fits into the whole. The refresh time is long only if trading is literally the only thing you're doing in the game. But even if we completely forget the survival aspect of the game, there still is the matter of in-game economics. More specifically the general problem with NPC traders in video games in general. To prevent the player from unloading infinite amounts of some easily farmable item to traders for infinite profit, or the reverse, they have implemented a limit as to how many items of any given type a trader will take. As well a limit on how much of any given item the trader has for sale. These limits would become completely meaningless if you could just refresh the inventory whenever you wanted, by getting a new trader.

[@teseo5544]

What kind of Satisfactory is this?

[@JoelleTheAbsurdist]

It's a satisfactory Stationeers video? Or it's mediocre, my vote is for mediocre.

[@playthegoodgame2728]

How did you build the hangar doors through the landing pad like that? The game will not let me do it like that

[@JoelleTheAbsurdist]

Put the doors down first, then add more blacks after... but they also might have changed the way doors work, this video is rather old. Alternatively, you can place your blocks and door, but offset from one another, then load the save file, find the object, and manually set the coordinates. You can also use that technique to flip things in direction they don't normally let you.

[@neothorus7770]

hello how do you configure an airstrip for several hangars

[@JoelleTheAbsurdist]

I don't know, I haven't tested it yet. However, my guess would be, to place a taxiway waypoint on the runway at the point where the crafts would break off into the different hangers... the traders will stop on this spot and wait. On the comms computer, in the top right, you can select which landing pad the craft will route to. Connect more then one landing pad centre, rename that centre to a unique name, then select it on the computer. The craft should than land, taxi to the waypoint, then when you push the active button on the data block in the landing pad, the craft should route to that new landing pad centre. I'm not super interested in making more Stationeers video right now, I'm kinda done with it for a while, I might make a video testing this in the feature, but not right now.