The Middle East locomotives that weren't built for the Desert - LMS Stanier 8F

In this video, we take a look at the Stanier 8F and why so many worked in the Middle East despite them being unequipped for the desert
Music Used: • ATC - Around the World...
Please subscribe for more
This video falls under the fair use act of 1976 This video is available to use under the appropriate Creative Commons Licence.
Any images used that fall under any Creative Commons Licence belong to their respective owners.

[@shahars3134]

5:04 Note that 45166 is in Israel, not Turkey. Beer Sheva is a large city in Israel. The locomotive had to be imported in secret to Israel from Turkey due to the problematic diplomatic relationship between the two countries. The locomotive has been renumbered 70414 in reference to an Israeli song about an "aging" mainline steam locomotive (no. 70414) being sent to the scrapyard and being replaced by a "younger" diesel locomotive.

[@ajorsomething4935]

Huh, that's actually kinda interesting. Was that song an example of folk music or was it actually a popular song on the radio at one point?

[@shahars3134]

​@@ajorsomething4935 It was a popular song in the 50s and was written, composed and performed by some famous Israeli writers and singers. It was made for a film made by Israel Railways detailing the transition from Steam (especially the 8Fs) to diesels. I highly recommend watching the film here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2bGqmlqmtCNnbs . It has rare archival footage of the 8Fs in action in the middle east. It contains Passengers operation, shunting, filling water and footage from the cab and the scrapyard.

[@badgerlordpatrick6493]

@@shahars3134 Some of that footage is pretty good. It's always cool to see footage from the times when these engines originally ran!

[@shahars3134]

@@ElderEric The fuller story is that the city of Beer Sheva tried to buy the locomotive from Turkey directly while the diplomatic relations between the countries was good (pre 2010). Then in 2010 the Turkish owners activity refused to sell the locomotive to Israel. To overcome this, Israel has contacted multiple railway workshops in Europe to try and make a deal where the workshop would acquire the locomotive from the Turkish owners and then Israel would but it from them. In the end a British workshop agreed to the deal. Until the locomotive had reached Israel, the deal between Israel and the British workshop was completely secret, otherwise the Turkish owner wouldn't have sold it.

[@Trainskitsetc]

Also present in Israel but not often spoken of are a couple of examples of british railways rolling stock. Namely a Mk1 and a Mk2 that I have found in my research, the latter part of a batch exported for passenger service. While in the area (sort of) there is also an austerity 0-6-0 hanging around in Tunisia.😅 Next he should do British locos in the far east... those austerity 2-8-0s made it a long way from home.

[@volvoolympianforever]

Even less known example of locomotives shipped to other countries for war: original KCR steam locomotives of Hong Kong (built in UK 30 years prior) shipped to the Middle East during WWII. I was unable to find any record of their eventual fate in the Middle East. If anyone knows what happened to them it’d certainly be an achievement.

[@ajayKumarajayKumar-hr7sj]

Turkey also recieved some 80 kreigloks, german WW2 era DRB Class 52 locomotives, which were used till 1980s. It would be interesting to see British and german WW2 locomotives working together in a neutral country.

[@StrangeTerror]

Bad joke but probably I.E.D. hellfire missiles or rpg/ rocket artillery fire. Or scrapped by various factions.

[@volvoolympianforever]

@@StrangeTerror those have a very high possibility but I just can’t find any records of those information

[@StrangeTerror]

@@volvoolympianforever I would be surprised if you could. Most of those would've been attacked pre 2000 I would imagine. Not a lot of incentive to keep records on an old steam engine running a mine line getting hit with an RPG. Or doing forensics on a tank taking a cheeky pot shot.

[@volvoolympianforever]

@@StrangeTerror true, but maybe there are records of official withdrawn dates or something like that. It just feels such a shame that the first steam locomotives in Hong Kong has such little records of their eventual fate. The only passing mention of their fate is ‘three serving in Iran and the others in Palastine and Suez.’ I just really hope that locomotives of such significance should have more recognition by historians.

[@bigblue6917]

There is a very good reason these and the American locomotives did not make it to France before it was liberated. That was because the Royal Air Force and the United States Army Air Force took great pains to stop the Germans using it. They even used the 22,000 Grand Slam bomb, or earthquake bomb, to shake down a vital railway viaduct and bring down part of a mountain on top of the line running through it. After they'd finished with it no trains were traveling anywhere in Northern France.

[@RailwayManiaNet]

The RAF and USAAF did trash the railway network in France but that wasn't the reason Stanier 8Fs were not deployed there. The USATC and WD used lots of railways in Northern France post-invasion, but they did not use Stanier 8Fs because they had already transitioned to using S160s, S100s and Austerity 2-8-0s and 0-6-0STs respectively (as well as any French stock they could find). They were incredibly quick to repair the railways and get them running again.

[@johnjephcote7636]

The American 141Rs in France were superb locos, lasting long after the War, still with their lifting brackets on cab and smokebox top.

[@keiranallcott1515]

Turkey apparently received these locos as part of a way to keep them neutral during ww2 , while they also received krieg locomotives from Nazi Germany, also in regards to ROD locomotives at the beginning of World War Two , Britain had in France a couple of jinty 3fs and a couple of William deans 2251 class fitted with pannier tanks, some were captured by the Germans when they invaded France and the dean 060 was one time pictured at Smolensk a few years later

[@jugbywellington1134]

There was a GWR Prairie tank in Poland when I was living there about a decade ago, but I never got to see it. I saw the photos, though. I think it ended up in Hungary.

[@keiranallcott1515]

@@jugbywellington1134 in Australia, we still got a couple of ex Robinson ROD locomotives from World War One in nsw.

[@lyndonchow8961]

The 2nd NZ Expeditionary Force (mostly railwaymen) has drove one of these Stainer 8fs in the western desert during the Second World War and there was a book I got called "The Desert Railway" by Brendon Judd, only in New Zealand.

[@Alpha-oo8]

I’d be amazed if an 8f showed up at my nearest heritage railway… I don’t think they ever travelled as far as Australia

[@willtrainvideos]

Australia never got any 8Fs, though 13 ex ROD Locomotives were purchased privately by a coal mining company to replace their older locomotives.

[@AustralianRailwayVideos]

There has been a few stories of UK locomotives ending up in the Aus but I don’t think any 8F’s ended up here

[@abrr2000]

It's interesting how different the exact same engine looks with different fixtures and fittings put on it

[@samhale6918]

Fun fact: the 8f 8233 as mentioned in the video is currently a memorial inside the Highley engine house on the svr to royal engineers and rail personnel who served on railways in the middle east and north Africa during world war 2

[@marsandcobblesproductions3501]

According to the wiki. 8233 (WD 307/WD 70307) derailed in her war years, because she ran into a camel. He also didn't mention that there were 4 8Fs at Longmoor. •LMR 500 (8233) •LMR 501 •WD 508 (unused) •LMR 512

[@peterflitcroft9756]

3 of the 4 8F’s at Longmoor were sold to British Railways. One for some reason wasn’t wanted and was scrapped. My late father worked on them at Longmoor during his National Service with the Royal Engineers.

[@marsandcobblesproductions3501]

@@peterflitcroft9756 That's nice, sad the railway is gone, it basically a full size trainset.

[@marsandcobblesproductions3501]

@@peterflitcroft9756 508 wasn't used cause it was worn out. 512 was involved in an accident after running into Basra.

[@Iwannabeamafiaboss2001]

Another fun fact if this is true: The British even planned on bringing the LMS 8Fs to Mexico during WWII but the plan was scrapped because of the war and they needed their locomotives to be sent to the Middle East to fight the Germans. Honestly that would’ve been cool to have British steam locomotives in Mexico also from what I can see, the LMS 8Fs in Mexico would’ve looked the same as the ones in Egypt,Palestine,etc but with different couplings also they locomotives themselves would’ve ran better in the Mexican environment due to it not being as hot as Egypt’s climate also with more water over there.

[@jacoblyman9441]

Its interesting to me that many British locomotives when exported overseas ran into the repeated issue of having to little capacity for fuel and water. That was one of the big issues the D&RG ran into with their Double Fairlie Mountaineer in Colorado, it simply didn't have the kind of fueling range they needed between stations and they eventually took a flatcar and slapped an ad-hoc tender on top. I think if anything it shows how tightly compact the British network is with frequent water and fuel stops available, verses overseas networks especially in arid regions. Its not like American exports were perfect either, especially in wartime... as the issue with British crews understanding how to read American water sight glasses attested to when a handful of various S160's had boiler explosions over the course of the war. While all the core basic engineering mechanics of steam were the same everywhere, those fluctuations in appliance fittings or tender capacity or a myriad of other small factors seems to be the main issue in localizing an overseas export to any railroad.

[@asteroidrules]

In a way it makes sense, designers assume their locomotives will be used in specific conditions, but those conditions aren't universal. It was a frequent complaint made about British designed locomotives in South Africa that the designers had assumed fresh water would be plentiful and coal would be of high quality, those assumptions were true in Britain, not so much on the Cape of Good Hope.

[@harrisonrawlinson5650]

I either don’t work or I finish early on a Friday. These videos are the start of my weekend, every weekend

[@raythomason3]

In the early eighties, I was working in Iraq and was surprised to see an 8F in the bay platform in Baghdad main station with one con-rod missing. The only concession to Middle East conditions appeared to be a double skin on the cab roof.

[@TrainFactGuy]

Lyrics to Around the World - Daft Punk: "🎵Around the World🎶" x144

[@Floedekage]

That's a gross amount of repetition.

[@skarloeyexpress4353]

no lyrical genius can compare

[@roadtrain_]

I was wondering why the song was so familiar...

[@TrainFactGuy]

@@roadtrain_ It's actually Around the World by ATC

[@csrmodelling4259]

The GWR provided 62 Dean Goods locomotives for the war effort in WW1, working for the ROD in France. 55 of these returned home after the war. When WW2 happened, the WD requisitioned locomotives for use in France, including 108 Dean Goods, but only 79 of these made it to France before it fell. Of these engines, 24 had been sent overseas in WW1, making them veterans of both world wars.

[@Floedekage]

I once followed the Nile up through Egypt on Google Maps. At one point I spotted some black lines close by the Nile that turned out to be a lot of abandoned steam locomotives. Does anyone know if they disposed of the engines somewhere random in the desert? Didn't seem to have any connecting tracks either. 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@gabrielthee2tankengine792]

I think they were probably blown up

[@amrabozeid4420]

Can you share the coordinates I would like to check it out thx

[@aweirdredtoad3637]

We need the coordinates, man..

[@Floedekage]

@everyone Alright. I've been looking up and down the Nile a bit quickly and haven't found it yet. Keep in mind that I remember finding it like 15 years ago on Google Maps, so something might have changed? Also, this was when I was young and had a lot of spare time to just spend hours drifting around the world map, so how close it actually was to the Nile is hard to say. 😅 I'll keep looking!

[@Trainskitsetc]

@@Floedekage just follow the railway instead of the river. There wasn't a huge network and no one woulda put in the effort to move them far from it so they will be on it somewhere if they exist. Rarely does a loco get moved far from the track it worked on especially in a place with limited resources to do so.

[@TankEngine75]

Countries like India, Pakistan, Malaysia, etc mostly have British Built steam Locomotives, because they were British Colonies, so another reason why British steam locos are in abroad is because they were a British colony!

[@Trainskitsetc]

Iraq and Iran likewise used to be rather under the british thumb as Persia. Iraq having some just beautiful streamline locos back in the day.

[@crazypickles8235]

This was an awesome short! I love the 8F, such a chungus of a locomotive. Sheer power and energy, beautiful and sturdily built.

[@epiculo2]

In Italy we had fifteen of these engines, registered in Italian State Railways as 737 Group. They served until 1956.

[@steamingaroundbritain]

Fun fact about TCDD 45160 from someone who has worked on her some of her parts are actually from some of the 8Fs that reside at the bottom of the pacific ocean and they are some of the most relyable and pristine parts of the locomotive

[@StrangeTerror]

Just discovered your channel. Kind of been binge watching all morning lol

[@subnormality5854]

Love "All Around the World" as the background music

[@LMS5935]

My second favorite class of steam locomotive!!!! And also I noticed how this video ties is almost perfectly with train boy’s after all you two did Caleb.

[@blackstone1a]

To expand off this, you ever heard of Erie 2524? It was an Erie K-5 Pacific that was donated to South Korea after the Korean war and apparently had a career doing passenger work there. The 1954-55 Erie promotional magazines might have more info on it.

[@EdgyShooter]

"Didn't arrive until the fall of France" That could've made an awkward delivery hand off. "Okay here's the trains and... Er... You're not British are you?"

[@brianfretwell3886]

Well as long as they weren't German............

[@cristianocastagno9680]

8Fs arrived in Italy too, where they outclassed all local classes. They were phased out after the war on account of lack of spares. You mentioned this !

[@survivingworldsteam]

There is the remains of a pair of 8Fs on and around the wreck of the Thistlegorm in the Red Sea, they took a direct hit from the bomb that sank the ship, and were blown in two. They are accessible by divers.

[@Nightmare_52]

one of my absolute favourite steam locomotives, happy to hear about them

[@americancrusader5748]

Check out the John Bull. Built in the UK. Operated from 1831 - 1884. It survived the Civil War and last operated on its own power last in 1981. Its a cool old train

[@danwright2949]

I’ve seen 48624. It’s a beast. Seen it at the East Lancashire Railway and I work there. Been working at the Railway now for 8 years. Another LMS 8f went to the East Lancashire Railway number 48518 only went there to have its frames scrapped. It’s the only preserved donor parts LMS 8F. It donated its boiler to its classmate 48773, don’t know what happened to its tender and it’s last remaining parts are at the Llangollen Railway. Most of it’s part are donated and scrapped. It’s possible to bring it back to how it was before it started donating parts but it’s gonna cost an absolute fortune to make so many new parts for her. New tender, new frames, new wheel sets, new boiler etc. it’s really sad to see it with small amount of it’s last remaining parts and that really makes me want to collect the parts and bring it back to life

[@ajayKumarajayKumar-hr7sj]

Turkey also recieved some 80 kreigloks, german WW2 era DRB Class 52 locomotives, which were used till 1980s. It would be interesting to see British and german WW2 locomotives working together in a neutral country.

[@Stgpop]

I love the subtle "All around the world" outro lol

[@Ayham4002]

I live in Baghdad and apparently, the location of the LMS Stanier 8F is located near where I live. I just need to get there somehow.

[@pacificostudios]

The troubles of steam engines in deserts helps explain why Santa Fe -- which crosses northern Arizona, New Mexico, and the Mojave desert of California -- was so quick to replace its steam fleet with diesel locomotives like the EMD FT.

[@metadude1234]

The song choice in the bg is much appreciated lol

[@edwardvincentbriones5062]

We all see what extreme heat will do to the rails, right? I wondered how the railwaymen in the ME maintain them in such a great heat and distance?

[@bigblue6917]

America had a locomotive, the Hayes 4-6-0 camelback, where the footplate, which looked like it was part of a signal box, was on top of the boiler just behind the chimney. Imagine the heat of summer while stood on a boiler inside a glass box and being slowly kippered from the smoke. At the same time the fireman was stood on the front of the tender with a small roof over his head which exposed him to the heat of summer as well as the rain, wind and snows of winter. Somehow the romance of steam gets a little tarnished for all of these men.

[@SportyMabamba]

Many many expansion joints

[@anthonyjackson280]

The real problem is not how hot a place is but rather the temperature fluctuation that causes expansion and contraction. An environment that varies between -40C and 25C will cause more rail buckling than a place where the temperature varies between 15C and 40C.

[@rohannavalkar112]

@Train of Thought Can you do an episode on British locomotives in India, I don't know much on the subject and easily available information except on a few Bayer Peacock Garrets is hard to come by. can you please shed some light on the matter.

[@USRA_Fanatic]

Do you think you could do a video on WW2 locomotives? Stories where they were captured or something happened to them? I've been trying to find such stories on my own but can't seem to find much on the subject :/

[@localcarthief]

For anyone wondering, the image at 3:37 is of a NSWGR S type Carrige. This originates from NSW, Australia.

[@kizi2213]

Could you Cover the MInature Trains of WW1 they were interesting trains put up in a short time .

[@thelittlebrightonshunter]

I enjoy watching these videos while I’m eating at lunchtime.

[@CaptainForsyth]

0:37 I didn't know the saying "or Bust" Was around in WW2, I thought it modern thing.

[@TSR1989FF]

I knew it was, albeit due to a version thereof being used in The Railway Series books, which started as a series in 1945.

[@garryferrington811]

"- or bust" goes back to the California gold rush of 1849, and the people who crossed the (not yet) United States to get there.

[@jaydenholloway6710]

Does anyone know about the 8F that was preserved in the Turkish town of Izmit? It disappeared around 2014 I think? It’s area was Replaced by a tramline.

[@erenozkan2804]

8f TCDD number 45168 is still in izmit at a factory sidings of the mainline a short distance from the railway station in izmit. The loco is complete but the future of it is uncertain.

[@jaydenholloway6710]

@@erenozkan2804 thanks so much for the information. It’s been plaguing me for years to know what had happened to it. It’s in such a good condition from the photos that I would think it would be insane to scrap it now. They could just plinth it somewhere again or sell it to preservation.

[@erenozkan2804]

I went to visit the loco back February this year’ when I was in Istanbul. The loco it’s self is fully complete, the two coaches unfortunately had caught fire a few years ago and it’s been laid up the sidings behind Koceli Science Center. The last time the loco was operational was September 1992 and I think the ash from that last steam tour is still in the firebox. I have loads of pictures of the loco, if you want I can share them with you!

[@CoolAsFreya]

There was also some Australian built locomotives in the Middle East, that actually faired pretty well!

[@frigometri257]

Great Video as always. Keep going There are still locomotives, that are a great part of war history and also heavy lifters. That being the german Kriegsloks. Despite germanys attrocitys and war crimes (I am german by the way) the locomotives built by Nazi germany are great in design and functionality.

[@Dave_Sisson]

I think Mark Felton made a video on them still operating from a coal mine in Bosnia this year.

[@frigometri257]

@@Dave_Sisson yes and this was a good one

[@carebloodlaevathein6732]

No shit, man. All the war crimes and genocides aside, we DID build some pretty wicked stuff during the war. I love the Kriegslokomotive. It really shows how much beauty can lie within such basic, bare bones engineering. It was supposed to be as cheap an easy to build and yet it became such an iconic eye candy. I even got the chance to drive one myself a good few years ago. It was amazing.

[@frigometri257]

@@carebloodlaevathein6732 this sounds just crazy cool.

[@halbmetallmensch]

For a long time I actually thought that the "Kriegslok" is just the Class 52 which certainly is the most build and best known of them. But the Kriegslokomotiven really were a program to standardize and simplify a full range of locomotives for every need. For example I never knew that the E44 and E94 were Kriegsloks as well! There were standardized locomotives for narrow gauge, mining, light railways, diesel engines, electrical and so on

[@silverengine3769]

Speaking of war engines Do you think you can a video on the USATC S160?

[@RailwayManiaNet]

Shameless self promotion but I did a bit on them in this video (as well as the S200s) kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWiVfXafaJhpqq8

[@TheGWR0-4-0]

4:40 8247 is actually with us anymore, it doesn’t say online but it’s been moved, I just don’t know where. Great video!

[@aurandon]

Nice to hear Hong Kong is mentioned 😌 Our rail was powered by WD 2-8-0 after WWII for a few decades

[@addiston4420]

Preserved LMS 8233 worked as BR 48773 from 1957 when no longer required by the army as WD500. See en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Stanier_Class_8F_8233. It carried a distinctive non standard top feed for a while.

[@valritz1489]

Wait, that soundtrack though.

[@BlaBla-it6bb]

The music choice is genius.

[@martijn9568]

You used some fitting music for this video🙂

[@roscopsoultrain5875]

Whoa, an 8 bit version of ATC Around the World for a music bed.

[@saucypan-8796]

What happened to the engines in Egypt are they still there and are there any photos of them?🤔🤔🤔🚂🏜

[@Tauraco00]

Amazing history❤

[@RamblyYorkshireman]

I'd forgotten the Tony Orr version was a parody cover, so the background music was quite a trip.

[@barnykirashi]

0:10 *WHEN THE WIND IS SLOW, AND THE FIRE'S HOT, THE VULTURE WAITS TO SEE WHAT ROTS, OH HOW PRETTY ALL THE SCENERY THIS IS NATURE'S SACRIFICE, WHEN THE AIR BLOWS THROUGH WITH A BRISK ATTACK, THE REPTILE'S TAIL RIPS FROM IT'S BACK, WHEN THE SUN SETS, WE WILL NOT FORGET THE RED SUN OVER PARADISE*

[@Brian_rock_railfan]

great video

[@GreatWestern5199]

I saw 8233 like a week ago in the Engine House at Highley, so annoyed that I thought it was just another 8F and didn't know this 😑😑

[@oilrig834]

nice choise for outro music haha

[@PlumSack79]

Queensland rail depot at Ipswich had an obscene amount of engines stored in 2009. Don't quote me but I think many have been donated to India.

[@Straswa]

Great work ToT!

[@AustralianRailwayVideos]

0:41 I just realised was Australian rollingstock

[@roanneabe7552]

If you think that's amazing then you have never heard of the DRB Class 52 they are the only WW2 era steam locomotives still used to this very day and there are a lot in preservation unlike the other WW2 designs

[@Steam98-shortz]

What’s the song called

[@imatrainperson1195]

I read that Iraq had some streamlined steam locomotives delivered to them from Britain during the war, but one was lost en route (probably because it was during the war).

[@BHuang92]

You would think that modifying some South African locomotives designs would be ideal for conditions in the Middle East?

[@Dave_Sisson]

Wrong track width. Most Middle Eastern railways operated on the European standard gauge, while South African railways were the narrower Cape gauge.

[@Trainskitsetc]

@@Dave_Sisson ...narrow gauge(metre gauge) used to run from Syria all the way into Saudi Arabia. Some of it still operational with preserved steam in Syria until the civil war. Presumably the locomotives are still there hidden in a shed for better times.

[@patrickwines9551]

I'd love to see a video of the usatc locos and their survivors

[@Shark30006]

How many Stanier Class 8Fs were lost at sea?

[@aaronfield7899]

Can you talk about steam condensers?

[@nicolek4076]

If, like me, you were baffled by a Turkish engine on display in Beersheba which in Israel, I discovered that there is a Turkish railway museum there, celebrating the long political ties between the countries.

[@lalnablehector1285]

Haha classic ANZAC Larrikin's in that photo at 0:50

[@newobanproductions999]

Even more so that the coach is a NSWGR S-type coach, confirming this is taken in ANZAC territory.

[@lalnablehector1285]

@@newobanproductions999 didn't even notice to be honest haha I rarely pay attention to coaches.

[@Beatle1912]

Here's a thing you see there's the class z witch is a tank engine from us it was a Baldwin locomotives work one

[@Im_here170]

Wow 😯

[@illiniguy34]

Only realized at the end that the background song was ATC.

[@karmaserra3323]

Was that around the world by ATC? Lol nice touch

[@SomeRandomGuy161]

is an 8f a black 5?

[@voidjavelin23]

nah

[@Inpreesme]

Thank you

[@IndustrialParrot2816]

the american diesels they would have had wouldve been RS-1s GP7s also there are no 8F's in my country and my local heritage railway only has a few old northern pacific and Canadian Forest products locomotives

[@TheStickCollector]

Interesting to see

[@iaincaveney7162]

You forgot to mention that ex GCR 8K 2-8-0 s were also sent to the middle east and some were RODs who saw service in France duringWW1

[@cabinvibeetsystore9094]

New sub! Liked 🙏😮

[@jossdeiboss]

I'll try to hop on the 8233 as I am currently working in the Derbyshire and can easily go to the Severn Valley Railway :D

[@UnipornFrumm]

hmmm,there are a lot of steam locomotives left as display in many stations in romania

[@epiculo2]

Italian 8Fs have been all scrapped in 1953. They briefly served with Italian State Railways as 747 class.

[@astridvallati4762]

Sorry, the 8F being a 2-8-0, was FS Gr.737, the USATC 2-8-2 were the FS Gr.747 USATC 2-8-2 were also used in Iran, but the Trans-Iranian Railway ( Bandar Abbas- Tehran- USSR was mostly serviced by ALCO RSD-3 diesels, which the Soviets Copied after WWII...until the 1980s ( in 5-foot Gauge).

[@jazzybelleverdonwilliams4978]

I love the representation Australia got with the first troop train

[@patrickwamsley3284]

I'd like to see that China Rail KF7 run again. It's a pretty interesting looking engine, looking a lot like an americanized British engine but I'm willing to guess it's probably too large for Britain for either loading gauge issues or just the fact it's a 4-8-4.

[@Dallen9]

It's probably a hybrid and China is Standard gauge. Standard gauge is universal world wide it's the same in the US and UK. In fact most Railways in the world are either Standard Gauge or a form of Narrow Gauge. Most popular being either 3 foot or Meter gauge. The only exception of these are the Broad Gauge Railways which there are a few.

[@patrickwamsley3284]

@@Dallen9 I'm referring to the loading gauge as in the width and height not related to the track itself. So like making sure it fits through tunnels and doesn't scrape on platforms. I forget which class of locomotive it was but they exported a number of EMD Sd40-2s to Britain but had to give them British bodies in order to fit through tunnels.

[@Dallen9]

@@patrickwamsley3284 That's the first I've ever heard of that. I know that EMD and GE do/did rebuild the Bodies for Export but never cause of Loading Gauge issues but for Aesthetic Reasons. Then again that could of also been them trying to sugar coat the actual reasons for the investing public.

[@Dallen9]

@@patrickwamsley3284hmmm interesting. then again because of the abandonment of Passenger service I guess EMD and GE just got reckless with locomotive design. have noticed that Newer American Diesel designs are taller than older designs but never thought of it cause there so common placed where I'm located at it just might be why Eastern US locomotives are shorter than Western US Locomotives.

[@sharkymcsharknose2979]

​@@patrickwamsley3284 You might be thinking of the Class 59, which was more-or-less an SD40-2 repackaged to fit the UK loading gauge. The story goes that the independent Foster Yeoman aggregates company was disappointed in its British locos- either they were powerful but unreliable, or reliable but only powerful enough for lighter duties. FY purchased a refurbished EMD SW1001 switcher (shunter) in 1980 and were impressed with its reliability and strength. However, while small by US standards, it was still too large for the UK loading gauge and even had its cab damaged in a accident when it smashed into a tunnel it couldn't fit through. FY commissioned EMD to build them a more powerful mainline locomotive that could fit within the entire UK rail network, and the Class 59 was the result.

[@kevwebb2637]

I did noticed that there is one USATC S100 is also at Israel as well.

[@mqtcreations]

Train Of Thought discord server when?

[@TrainFactGuy]

If I find any decent mods I'll consider it

[@mqtcreations]

@@TrainFactGuy I'd be down to mod, I run my own server and moderate a couple more

[@spitfire12able]

they're like the trains the germans used, some of them have travelled all over the place, fact i believe some might still be in use

[@Droid585]

The 8fs having the requirements to run on the railways kind of look like flying Scotsman While on her American tour

[@thomasciarlariello]

sandworms of "Dune" by Herbert

[@ezyto]

I don’t care about trains. Subscribed.

[@johnjephcote7636]

One or two are still in the wreck of the Thistlegorm bombed 1941 off Egypt.

[@harryturner8701]

There is a weird beauty in a steam engine being at the bottom of the sea…

[@ssarnold19]

Yey I've seen the bowness and kinneil engine! Or what's left of anyway due to its over hall ! Think I have pictures of it 😂

[@mrmaniac3]

And even Italian railways!

[@scotthamp384]

Why didn't they have two tenders, like Flying Scotsman?

[@voidjavelin23]

because its midde east? duhh not every railway standard from other countries need to be the same as railway standard in america

[@robertbalazslorincz8218]

"Something we all love: WAR."

[@ThatE4]

I'm in the thumbnail

[@davidantoniocamposbarros7528]

Misters Worldwides

[@leightonmoreland]

what austerity engines ended up in America?

[@treewizard6484]

Thats a good question, I don’t recall our railroads needing them.