Did Optimus Prime Let Thousands Die In Order To Make A Point?

[@treyrex5987]

Wow, I never paid attention to the fact that Optimus Prime had a redemption arc in DOTM but that makes total sense now. Can't believe I've watched this film so many times over the years and never noticed that but that just increases my love for this version of Optimus even more. He's flawed of course but still likeable and cares about humanity.

[@kennethsatria6607]

@M. Robinson I feel like they dropped the murder and harvesting of the autobots by humans too quick for AOE. But it was definitely manned by just that old guy looking for a profit so the humans as a whole are just capable of both good and evil.

[@ilikepigeons6101]

AOE had a character arc development for prime too, that's why i thought the film stood out from the rest, still does

[@cringekiller348]

Bayverse optimus was a crazy ass pyschopath. Nothing more. He never had any character Transformers prime optimus is the best optimus.

[@treyrex5987]

@@cringekiller348 Sounds like someone is a sheep, if you really think that the Bayverse Optimus Prime has no substance at all with his character, which is a flat-out lie. He's not the greatest written character, nor the best written version of Optimus but he does at least got something to offer that's interesting and while Transformers Prime's iteration is better in a lot of aspects... let's stop pretending like he's the perfect version. He's got just as much flaws as his predecessor. Also you're lying about him not having ANY character because you clearly haven't seen the first film, where they tried to stay truer to his original G1 counterpart and then of course his got plenty of character throughout the sequels. Which although you may not like it.... it is still part of this version's character.

[@wesleymelvin2347]

can goku and naruto an izuku help optimus prime in both crossover movies and crossover games

[@wingedbluj1674]

I like to believe Optimus made this decision with a very heavy heart, knowing people would die. He knew trying to fight back against the Decepticons head on could lead to countless cities being laid to ruin, and took the course of action that led to the fewest casualties.

[@cesarperez1835]

I agree. Heavily outnumbered and outgunned, and with no support from the human governments, the only option was to use the element of surprise. The only hole in this theory is why he waited so long, but as TT states it would take about a day to reach Chicago, and that is assuming they were ready to go from the moment they made waterfall and didn't need to slow down or full on stop to do maintenance or make preparations. He only had one chance. It was hard to let so many people die, but it was several thousands vs 7 billion lives. He likely had to make this decision before on Cybertron. Maybe he made it before and tried to save everyone, which ironically led to more casualties. So he took the safest route.

[@therealpyrotf2]

Pun intended?

[@Techmaster7032Official]

@@cesarperez1835 Would explain why he's so pissed off when they finally arrived too.

[@parkerpshebnisky1051]

Without sacrifice there can be no victory!

[@draconicdemigod9696]

In war the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few. The leader makes the heaviest decisions.

[@thedragonslayer7294]

When a talking space truck has better judgement than your own government.

[@davidvasquez08]

It doesn’t take much to prove the govt wrong

That talking space truck is 9.000.000 years old, had been fighting in a civil war that lasts nearly his whole life (the Cybertronian Civil War was said to have lasted for over 5.000.000 years), had seen countless comrades fallen, made tons of hard decisions, possibly lots of blood on his hands before he even reached Earth...of course he knows what he was talking about. His only downfall was to still believe in Sentinel as a mentor.

[@TheMasterBaiter1269]

@ Jesus 5 millions of year of pure war?

[@joshuacorless1233]

Well I agree with side of the argument that Optimus prime let thousands of human beings die in the battle of Chicago

[@jaylai6563]

thats the thing about politics they're all fucked

[@barricadethedecepticon1350]

I have an answer to those who wonder why Optimus was so brutal with Shockwave? , Shockwave murdered Elita One & other autobots including Jolt offscreen

[@thirdplanet4471]

In addition, it is also war time for these bots so brutality is to be expected

[@spoderman77]

And shockwave is a cold blooded murder machine so he had to despose of him quick

[@MrJarvisful]

@Argenta warrior how

[@crdbtmn8232]

@Argenta warrior I mean bayverse canon is so fucked best to pick and choose

[@inflatabledisplays1312]

Bruh Optimus prime has destroyed a bunch of other brutally

[@Arkhamman2023]

“Before your president decides, please ask him this, what if we leave.. and your wrong?” -Optimus prime 2009

[@carsongrover9924]

*you're

[@lucasmartin9069]

This is one of the coolest and biggest lines in all of movie history.

[@Arkhamman2023]

@@carsongrover9924 No

[@pdrinhoooo]

@@Arkhamman2023 he's correct my man...

[@elishawilson5342]

@@Arkhamman2023 bruh put your pride to the side

[@lachlanmcdougall5326]

Optimus hates to harm humans, but he knew that complying was the only way to have any sort of advantage against the deceptions

[@jonathanavery848]

I can totally agree with that.

[@Captain-Obvious-Idiot]

Didn't prime shoot a white bearded evil business man and not shoot other evil humans.

[@ArsxnIV]

It was a needs of the many deal. He let thousands die but saved billions by doing it.

[@19GAME]

@@jonathanavery848 same here

[@wesleymelvin2347]

can goku and suicide squad be fighting each other in a crossover game and can monster rancher be in rwby crossover games

[@Jman92854]

That's the thing, I never saw Bay's Optimus as a bloodthirsty war criminal, because the Decepticons in these movies are not G1 Cartoony bad guy Decepticons who say "Oh curses, my plan was foiled!" and surrender or run away. They are bloodthirsty monsters that will kill anything and everything in their way with their sharp claws if a weapon isn't available. It annoys me that people say Optimus is so ruthless, when the Decepticons in each movie have killed hundreds of humans and cause so much destruction without a care in the world, and after fighting this war for millions of years and losing Cybertron, you'd be pushed to your breaking point too. If anyone thinks Optimus let humans die to make a point, they're ignoring the fact that the Government chose to negotiate with terrorists and exiled their only means of defense. The fall of Chicago wasn't on Optimus or the Autobots, it was on humanity, because as far as they knew, the Autobots were shot down and killed.

[@Lastjustice]

The Decepticons are far more ruthless and leave trails of bodies every time they engage in warfare on Earth. Prime is just responding in kind as they are shown to no issue with killing as many humans as it takes to achieve whatever victory they set out to do. With the Star harvester they would kill all life on earth without blinking an eye in Revenge of the Fallen. This shown best in exchange between them in the Forest battle, "Is the future of our race worth a single human life?"- Megatron, "You will never stop at one! I will take you all on!" Optimus Prime, this was them drawing their lines in the sand. Peace was no longer an option. The irony is in Dark of the Moon, when Megatron offers a truce, 2007 Prime probably would taken him up on it, as Optimus does everything he can to reason with Megatron and is willing to sacrifice himself to destroy the allspark rather than Megatron. That ship had sailed, as Optimus knew Megatron would just use this time to rebuild and start the war anew, then takes him out as he's had enough. Amusingly Sentinel spent the whole movie saying Optimus lacked the guts to do the hard things, then was shocked when Optimus killed him. Both Megatron and Sentinel accused Optimus of being too soft and got what they asked for. Prime is reflection of the war he's been thrown into. He fights for a world that has very conditional loyaly to him, and against his own people because they will destroy and/or enslave all life in the universe if left to their own devices. War is hell, and he is doing the ugly things needed for life to endure.

[@jacobcarver430]

I fully agree with you! Also the people siding against Prime are probably just Decepticon lovers!🤣

[@Lastjustice]

@@jacobcarver430 Well in their defense, the choices Optimus makes seem to always be very pro-earth and very anti-Cybertronian. Prime and his team of autobots have done massive damage to efforts to save their species. They destroyed the Allspark, the starharvester, and a large chunk of cybertron when the blew up the space bridge pillars. They prevented one of the Primes from using Earth to fix their planet, and kill Unicron which is their devil. If there's any kind of media among the cybertronians I could easily see Megatron being able to frame Prime and the Autobots as terrorists since they constantly undermine his efforts to save their planet. I suppose that's where the waves of new recruits from each film since they all buy into Megatron can only save us from prime. From the Cybertronian point of view on the sidelines, Prime definitely looks like the badguy here. Without the context yeah we didn't want to completely kill off entire planet to save ourselves, but at some poiint Prime does need actually help his own race besides make deals with humanity to crash at our place for the long term. Given how bad of shape Jetfire was in, makes you wonder how the current cybertronians are still functioning as well as they are given seems like their resources are vastly depleted and the films had never shown them acquire some means of sustaining themselves for the long term. May be some extra comic covers how they are surviving, as turning something nto energron like in G1.(as Megatron was feeding the sparklings in Dark of the moon something.) Right now just seems like everytime a new chance to save Cybertron comes up...Prime and gang smash it to save earth but then find no other means to help Cybertron. Like they just turned their backs at the idea of ever going home and making it inhabitable again. granted the options Megatron and the Cons pick always seem to destroy the earth in the process. They could easily just relocated the star harvester and blew up other stars to refuel their world. They've had to go millions of years without a refill from it, what would been just waiting a bit longer to get juice from a world that didn't have any life on it? Naah let's have zero compromise and take our idiot pills!

[@AnthonyBlamthony]

@@Lastjustice Kind of some problems with that like 1 Cybertrons aren’t like humans who get persuaded to join the fight they are literally made for the fight. So I don’t know about the “frame” point, also the destruction of their planet with a mutual thing. I don’t see Megatron going around saying it was solely the Autobots fault while at the same time, destroying half of his planet and he’s his own people all for power and glory in the name of Megatron. All their problems with their planet and people were caused by both factions, especially after Megatron got addicted to dark energon.

[@AnthonyBlamthony]

@@Lastjustice But also to that “idiot pills” part, dude they did go to other planets/star systems and drained them too. Think of it like this space is huge, going from planet to planet takes millions of years, draining an entire system for its resources is also going to take millions of years, bringing all of that back to your home world is also going to take millions of years. And it takes even longer when you’re already super short on resources. So when you find a planet like Earth that’s packed to the brim with resources are you going to go to another system millions of years away and might have less resources? Besides their main goal is total universal domination meaning earth was bound to be on their destinations list sooner or later.

[@thepie193]

Despite the meme of "Warcrime Prime", I still like him, he's still shown as a capable leader, it's just these versions of the decepticons are depicted as unhinged barbarians that are willing to use whatever to their advantage unlike their G1 counterparts so prime had to toughen up to show them that the autobots are willing to fight them head on.

[@IamFish_2009]

Wait, how were there g1 counterparts

[@thepie193]

They were just whacky 80's cartoon villains

[@IamFish_2009]

@@thepie193 oh

[@ryanfarrelly4647]

@Mordecai Maxwell hm maybe the Autobots were built by the creators/Quintessa so they're more humanoid while Decepticons were designed from the Allspark or the Allspark had a higher influence over them, making them more insect like and unhinged as Allspark mutations

[@thrusttheconehead5369]

Imagine Optimus saying “whoops” after seeing thousands die just because he revived Sentinel.

[@V1sr.vsp7330]

“Prime, thousands are dead” “Whoops” “Did you just say ‘Whoops’ to thousands dyi-“

[@alumlovescake]

sorry my bad

[@seventrucks]

the closest thing he actually said to whoops was "Oops my bad" after stepping on the fountain in Sam's house

[@chloecover1276]

@@seventrucks I do want to point out that he did say “oops” when he was standing in Sam’s mom’s flower bed. That’s probably just about the most humorous 5-10 minutes of all the Transformers movies. You’d think with a big guy like him being the wise and powerful leader that he was watching where he was stepping

[@pisaschitt787]

Mcu optimus prime be like:

[@ap6806]

I thought that the humans wanted the Autobots to leave, so.... I am not really sure why this had anything to do with Optimus, he has always believed in the freedom of others to be able to make decisions on their own, so that is what he did, and if he would have refused to leave, then the argument would be that he is a hypocrite for not allowing humans the right to choose, so Optimus is placed in this situation where he is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

[@raidenthenctzenwithinsomni4961]

That in itself is the reason for the argument and the question of if he did let thousands die to make a point.

[@MrJarvisful]

Best way to learn sometimes is by bumping your head

@@raidenthenctzenwithinsomni4961 He didn't, humankind did when they forced the Autobot to leave Earth out of honoring the deal between them and Sentinel, and the Autobot respected that decision. Humankind lets thousands of their own die to make a point: "We need the Autobots and Chicago shows".

[@arcturionblade1077]

@ Yup, and then the Decepticons broke their end of the deal by attacking and shooting down the Autobot shuttle in the hopes of destroying Optimus and his Autobots once and for all. Prime isn't at fault at all here when the Decepticons reneged on their bargain.

[@hangman6414]

@@arcturionblade1077 I mean we should know this from ROTF Megatron "you'll never stop at one" when they wanted to kill sam

[@redbelladonna668]

The “I told you so” speech is honestly accurate, however I DO think that he was aware that something devastating would happen since all the Cybertronians knew what the pillars were capable of. If that is the case and he was fully aware, then it would make sense that he chose to go with his orders from the military, rather than fight back and do something in secret. He likely left, not out of a true sense of obligation, but rather a need to let humanity see that even without the Autobots, the Decepticons would still slaughter. Plus I’m fairly certain if the military knew the Cons had planned on using humans as slaves, they would have 100% been against the exile of the Autobots.

[@shauntempley9757]

Yes, and Megatron was aware of the military pushing back if they knew of the slavery plans. It is why he ordered Lazerbeak to kill off the human agents. They all knew the plans to enslave humanity, after the Autobots were dead. Optimus knew all the steps Megatron would take, because they did them all on Cybertron, and Optimus was told in Revenge Of The Fallen. Any Decepticon plan regarding Earth will end in humanity's annihilation outright or enslavement first, annihilation afterwards. No matter what by any means. The Government is a wildcard in these stakes. They will always think that the military can handle the Decepticon threat without Autobot help, with every technological development. A situation like Chicago will always happen, unless the Government recognizes the Autobots.

[@andrewmah2962]

"Get out of here, Autobots, we can take the Deceptions!" Optimus - "OK, if you insist, but you're not going to like it. I'll give you 5 minutes until you call us back." XD

[@OscarASevilla]

That's literally the point of why Optimus did that.. lol. Sure, make any logic out of it. Doesn't change the fact that it's still a fucked up thing for Optimus to do, or morally questionable

[@sondernfy]

@@OscarASevilla Yeah, but staying on Earth with the unease of the gov't while the Decepticons were still spread around the globe would cause a LOT more casualties than what played out in Chicago. Can you imagine the Decepticons just absolutely wreaking havoc EVERYWHERE? The fourth movie wouldn't even have happened, as the very same people that turned their back on the Autobots would've been vaporized by Megs and the gang

[@supermal112233]

@@OscarASevilla Optimus is an alien and the humans are not exactly his friends. The humans plot and scheme behind his back while working with his most bloodthirsty old enemies. Optimus wants to help but he's doesn't belong there, so when they told him to pack his shit up and go, he did so. Optimus did the morally just thing in this situation by respecting their choice, stayed in his lane, and leaving. For what if in that slim possibility, Optimus is wrong, or an even worse possibility, the decepticons purposely choose to spare the humans as long as Optimus stays, knowing the humans will begin to hate him more and more. He was stuck in a catch-22 situation. There was littile choice.

[@bilal_Hadjlaoui907]

The fact that bayverse prime is become one of the most popular memes in the internet and the fandom in nowdays,make it even funnier

[@ehanayaanrocks]

Bayverse isn't a meme, it's just underrated

[@rahulkistoo4684]

You can say whatever you want buddy its your choice but for me bayverse prime is the reason why i love Transformers!

[@Markiplierforreal]

@@ehanayaanrocks I just don’t like his design in AOE and TLK

[@jovo21]

@@Markiplierforreal it's sick tho, less vehicle like but still rlly cool.

[@ehanayaanrocks]

@@rahulkistoo4684 same but it's not the ONLY reason I love Transformers but is a huge factor

[@dynobros2383]

To think the government had the audacity to blame the autobots in the 4th and 5th movie by hunting them, when they were ones who drove them away bc of Sentinel’s warning, the moral of the story is “you’re mad at those who helped you until you need them🤷‍♂️

[@mercury2157]

And THEN we find out in the 5th one that Decepticons were lucky enough to be fucking INCARCERATED. But the Autobots were purged because, you know, reasons.

[@reecethegamer]

Yeah it perfectly relates to green goblins speech in SM2002 “despite everything you have done for them, they will eventually grow to hate you”

[@AnDrei-nf5jb]

That was the cemetery wind (a black ops team) hunting them down, not the government nor the military.

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

@@AnDrei-nf5jb A black ops team is still apart of the Government to do their dirty work without any of the blame falling on the government

[@ltb1345]

@@mercury2157 That movie honestly just made me hate humans lol.

[@luizfelipevbf5567]

I never had much doubt on this because, in the brazillian dub which was the one I grew up with, Optimus says it as "Your government will never understand that the decepticons will never leave your planet". Doesn't paint the government as particularly competent but makes clear Optimus wsn't trying to give any sort of lesson.

[@Lucas-be5so]

O dublador do prime fez um bom trabalho ajudando a marcar uma geração que cresceu com esses filmes

[@luizfelipevbf5567]

@@Lucas-be5so absolutamente

[@Blotzwave]

How I always saw this: Optimus and the Autobots crashed down into the ocean in a rocket booster. By the time they got from the booster in ocean, back on shore, and then all the way to Chicago as incognito as possible without being noticed, the Decepticons had already killed the thousands of people. And this pretty much hit right on that with more insight, fantastic video as always! Along with all that, Shockwave. Shockwave found them within minutes of the Autobots rolling into Chicago, almost as if he knew they where coming. Shockwave stayed out of sight, as logically, Megatron and Sentinel where handling the scheme. He wanted to take any threats by surprise. Optimus knew that if they announced they where alive, Shockwave, and whatever other 'Cons, would be on them immediately. And who knows how the Decepticons would retaliate in anger against humanity.

[@mercury2157]

They were never on the ship at all, and letting the Decepticons set up shop is really the only surefire way to wipe out the bulk of their fighting force (no way they could wipe them ALL out since they were scattered around the globe with the pillars). There'd be a fuckton of casualties either way, but in the case of the most favorable outcome, they were pretty much unavoidable and it's mostly humanity's fault.

[@onetrackmind3558]

Good point, personally I never believed he did intentionally. But here's a good question, what about Age of Extinction Optimus, obviously he was gonna leave because of his kind being killed.

[@jazzy-qn8ms]

To be fair to Prime, the humans hunted down and slaughtered his family/friends, melted them into scrap metal, and used their leftover parts to make a bunch of soulless drones as their "replacements"; combine that with how nobody was holding a gun against the humans heads when they made the deal with Lockdown for a Seed while bragging that they knew better than the actual living Cybertronians. So yeah, Prime would have been completely justified in leaving the humans to deal with what would have been Chicago 2.0, and simply did them a solid by AGAIN saving them from their own mess.

[@onetrackmind3558]

@@jazzy-qn8ms oh I know

[@notproductiveproductions3504]

@@jazzy-qn8ms the Bayverse makes bureaucrats look like a bigger threat to humanity than the Deceticons…which I can respect

[@TH_Sofa]

I just delete the 4th and 5th movie out of my head as there’s so many shitty influences to the writing and so many strange design choices

[@sdm47]

@@TH_Sofa Well I mean, there’s an idea for a good story, they just don’t utilize it in any meaningful way And if you’re wondering which movie I’m talking about, both of them, I’m talking about both of them

[@dragoniccrab]

As Knockout once said "Try as you might, you can't con a con"

[@Theorymus]

I was referencing that when I wrote that line in the script

[@dragoniccrab]

@@Theorymus aw sick..

[@V1sr.vsp7330]

Prime just pulled the worlds biggest “I told ya so”

[@zecke6958]

Optimus is the strongest character and personality. Even though the humans abandoned him and his team, he still came back to save them. He could have just left.

[@mrmagnamalo7864]

What about Megatron

[@arrownoir]

Left and go where?

[@zecke6958]

@@arrownoir any other planet legit

[@Ghost-en8nw]

Imagine telling your greatest defense that you want them to leave, so that you could fight an army of giant space robots named deceptions by yourself. Using only HUMAN weapons

[@mercury2157]

And then they ALSO got blindsided by a human third party that was collaborating with the Decepticons

[@thanatos5642]

I mean human weapons are more advanced and capable than the weapons they use

[@Ghost-en8nw]

@@thanatos5642 who the hell told you that????

[@trinininja8386]

@@thanatos5642 only nukes are superior to what we've seen deceptions use. But no fight was in a place where they would use a nuke.

[@thanatos5642]

@@trinininja8386 ok what about a 500kg bomb or a 152mm tank shell or a gau 8 avenger 30mm,or moabs and foabs, atgms ,and emps would do some sorta damage too, and you could tac nuke big ships

[@jewishcoolmaker8900]

It takes 15 hours to get from the shuttle launch pad to Chicago. That is a line that is said by Epps before he and sam leave for the city. No one knew the autobots had survived, meaning they had to drive 15 hours to get to Chicago. During that time frame, the decepticons attacked chicago, there is literally no way the autobots could've have saved Chicago in that time.

[@braazygzzz5246]

even if they were there were talkin bumblebee prime rachet the wreckers dino and sideswipe and they aint doing shit to all them motherships and OG decepticons like barricade and shockwave with the driller in chicago they had one way of killing that horde off and that was with surprise.

[@DJWeapon8]

The autobots also needed to travel from their splashdown point somewhere in the Atlantic ocean and make it to shore. Adding even more to their travel time.

[@muhammadharunnurrasyid1073]

​@@DJWeapon8 and honestly with that worm thing the cons has it is quite possible to kill a few thousand and even tens of thousands of poeple via destroying a few skyscraper since the population in chicago is huge and dense

[@greenweeaboo8924]

I agree with Prime`s agreement in letting the humans having the freedom of choice and as well as his correction to fix a mistake that he didn`t expect to happen

[@ryantheregularravensfan8151]

Optimus has ALWAYS said "freedom is the right of all sentient beings" & freedom is not only of oppression or occupation but also CHOICE...there's an old saying that goes "u can take a horse to water but I can't make it drink"...Optimus gave humans the freedom to choose their own way but thanks to the very message he gave the humans about never being able to trust Decepticons he was never actually allowed to leave...I honestly believe if the Decepticons let the Autobots leave Optimus would've abided by the humans choice...

[@bilal_Hadjlaoui907]

Hot take:bayverse optimus is my favourite version of the character after the unicron triolgy and animated and g1 optimus's,he's really badass and always gives me a chills,and also has a great and unique design&color scheme,especially the blue flames,i think optimus should always have flames on his paintjob like bayverse prime and g2 lasee primd

[@bilal_Hadjlaoui907]

@Paw Patrol x Transformers its weird how back in 2008,the entire fandom send a death threats to bay because of the flames on optimus paintjob

[@kingslayerx1716]

Who else loves his MK style fatalities?

[@benjamingomez1761]

Flames dont fit Prime as a character, it does not look cool to me, they look like someone liked transformers but was ashamed of it, so put flames to make it cool in a childish way

[@zachyboi4173]

yeah i truly love the newer designs (although i still like the other designs to i just grew up with the new designs)

[@The_WumboTM]

You like bayverse optimus because he is epic. I like bayverse optimus because he is funny We are -not- the same

[@Ben_Kimber]

“Them” could also refer to both Decepticons and the government. If the humans knew the Autobots weren’t gone, they’d respond, and the Decepticons might have figured it out. Both the government and the Decepticons needed to believe they were gone for the Autobots to have the element of surprise.

[@blueraccoon1088]

the funny thing about this is because prime knew it was true. it was foreshadowed in ROTF the cons were not looking for bots that blood was not on optimus' it was the government who kicked the hope they had. if animated had Carlile writing we know we couldn't trust sentinel but optimus decieved government and I don't think they were planning so prime has made a wrecker move.

[@christianparrish3292]

Hello

[@blueraccoon1088]

@@christianparrish3292 hello

[@Edformers]

Dark of the Moon being DARK again. Thanks Trans Theories !

[@projesusantisatan3583]

I personally feel the first three live action movies portray Optimus with his moral values. So I believe it falls on the government. And the line he states is to refer to both sides of the cons in the government. But mainly the government. But it was definitely not an easy decision for him to make because he knew lives would’ve been lost. Which is why he tells his team to slaughter the enemies. Now if this was a movie prime from four and five then I could believe it.

[@Achieme]

All i can say is that he knew the Decepticons wouldn't leave their planet alone and try something if they left spike from G1 said it himself "they don't call those creeps Decepticons for nothing". which is one of the reasons why they faked their deaths. Optimus is like that one person that would say "you don't know them like i do" And he didn't expect the Decepticons to do something that insane. I also forgot to mention about the time and distance they need to get to Chicago without being spotted which I'm glad you brought up, because to say he knew is saying he stood there and watch which no he didn't.

[@Talon_Productions]

Fantastic video! I was planning on making this a topic on one of my discussion videos, but I may not now since you covered this so well. Optimus didn't let people die to prove a point, nor did he know for certain that the Decepticons would attack Chicago the way that they did and when. I get that people don't like movie Prime but this is one of those thing that people just don't pay attention to if they think he let people die on purpose.

[@Theorymus]

I'm glad that you enjoyed the video, if you still want to make one on the topic that's totally fine! Also I was able to make this video thanks to your help on the reddit and TFW 2005 post, so I Appreciate you clearing up some questions I had 👍

[@RayHardman7567]

I think the Autobots and the military had some kind of plan before the Autobots left earth. During the battle, you see a mortar team roll up and ratchet immediately giving them orders. The team was not part of nest, but the regular military or national guard.

[@glitch4416]

Most likely answer for this is because Lenox filled then in on what's happening because just before this you can see NEST meet up with the army who's holding position and Epps yelling "alright baby yall coming with us" implying that while they were running to their combat positions either Epps or Lenox filled them in on information they didn't have yet

[@dannyib94]

You guys also forget Sam was wearing a Decepticon watch put on him by Dylan to track and record his thoughts and what he says and who he talks to. That's why Prime didn't say anything as well the watch would've recorded it. Also Sam gave a hint to Prime he Said you can tell me the plan no other human will ever know!

[@Wing-Zero-si1eu]

At least Sam told them about how Dylan, when he said “I know where to look.” When Optimus said they need the element of surprise to know what they’re doing. Which really pisses them off for what they did to him & to Carly. Especially Bumblebee who is like the little brother Sam never had. Dylan sure was scared when he realized that their plan to kill the Autobots failed. So that they can exterminate every one of his clients, including him.

[@jaysonisrael1389]

Let's be honest watching DOTM on Cinema feels like you're in a real battlefield

[@seniorsquidoo5777]

I like the idea of DOTM being Primes redemption arc. It definitely would give Prime's merciless execution of Sentinel a proper explanation since some theorize his morals disappeared throughout the films.

[@Blastertronus]

What the world leader did in the film is rather unfortunately what our world leaders would do in real life.

[@christianparrish3292]

Cool profile picture.

[@Blastertronus]

@@christianparrish3292 thanks, it’s from a Mortal Kombat X mod that turns Reptile (and the other colored ninjas) into a robot.

[@christianparrish3292]

@@Blastertronus I know. I love mortal Kombat

[@mrmagnamalo7864]

No they would more likely start a war with the autobots and the deceptions

[@plantainsame2049]

No I'm pretty sure ours would just have nukes Chicago to attempt to kill Sentinel and Megatron and ended up causing more problems

[@Hawkmoon9]

I am so glad you made this video and mentioned that the Autobots were in/around Florida when the decepticons started attacking Chicago. There was no way the Autobots could protect Chicago when they were crashed down 18 hours away Florida. The only fault here is Optimus Prime reviving sentinel, but let's be honest, we would all revive our mentors if given the chance. I hate sentinel for what he did to Ironhide but I do love his design.

[@justbny9278]

Why should he be held accountable for the actions Sentinel took? Hell as far as any of them could tell he was on their side and he could have intel and experience that could back up their cause, but anything Sentinel choose to do After being revived falls on him

[@Hawkmoon9]

@@justbny9278 I said he was responsible for reviving sentinel and that's it. I hate sentinel and what happened in Chicago is his and megatrons fault.

[@KILLERGAMER-pf9fm]

thanks for this i have never thought to deeply about this but still thanks for clearing it up

[@Theorymus]

Anytime

[@SevyS7]

DOTM is one of the most brutal films ever, no matter how you dispute it, kids got liquefied in one scene, leaving nothing but bones

[@SWDude2710]

How you've been able to make sense of the Transformers series so well, even despite their negative reputation up until Bumblebee, is incredible to see. I grew up watching the first film, and then the next 2 and I did go to watch the 4th one as well, all at the cinema. Even if they have their glaring problems and loads of people dislike them (especially 4 and 5), I still remember the series quite fondly as I also had a lot of toys based off the films as well and they were amazing too.

[@MaterialManPlayz]

I remember when I saw this vid on community posts, and now it's here! Great vid btw

[@Theorymus]

Thanks

[@HIMCHESTER]

I absolutely love the idea of Dark of the Moon as an Optimus redemption arc. I've never thought about it like that, definitely caught me off guard lol

[@Spidermannprime]

BRO you are the BEST remnant bayverse fan on KZbin for keeping this franchise alive!

[@Theorymus]

Thx man, thats my job!

[@thephantomhaunter5454]

this is the darkest one yet....and im so here for it keep grinding trans

[@unnecessarymemes2496]

I think Optimus would of course know about what atrocities the Decepticons would do, and people who think that Optimus wouldn't care or acknowledge the deaths are, in my opinion, completely wrong and should know he would of course care in DOTM. Anyway, great vid.

[@kuitaranheatmorus9932]

For me DOTM should Optimus at his most badass for me,also Sentinel Prime sure was a backstabber but pretty nice villain Also I don't think he did it to prove a point just a hard truth of reality Also amazing video really hope you have a great day.

[@Jeremy-1580]

Haven't been on KZbin in a while, come back to amazing trans theories videos, gotta love it

[@caseyp8173]

I honestly actually do agree with the point about Optimus's point about the Decepticons and why it was so when the government thought that the deal with the Decepticons would come through but dealt a devastatingly backfiring blow when the Decepticons invaded Chicago. So therefore, I agree that Optimus Prime actually didn't directly let thousands of civilians to die by the Invasion of Chicago in order to make his point. Also, I interpreted his speech as sending a stern and very clear warning about the consequences of humans handling the Decepticons themselves without the Autobots. I consider this line to also be one of the greatest moments in Transformers Dark of the Moon when I watched it, because of the aforementioned point. 👍

[@Raizo.Football]

The Fact That Prime Sacrifice Families, Humans, Kid, Children But He Lost His Friends for Humans To Live

[@christianparrish3292]

Sweet! A my singing monsters fan! I love my singing monsters!

[@bmgdann1023]

he disnt sacrifice nobody the people who told them to leave did 💯 like who in their right mind gone be like "lets tell the good ones thats been helping us for years to leave n we can make a deal to the evil ones who been killing us for years" like humans were so damn dumb in transformers except sam n the army who has been fighting along side them since

[@naufalmEZa]

​@@bmgdann1023u.s govt in a nutshell

[@novustalks7525]

He was genuinely just listening to orders. He did not want to create conflict with the humans. But at the same time he was smart enough to know they can't leave. When optimus says "we needed them to believe we had gone" he was talking about the decepticons

[@michaelkean5969]

i actually like that Michael Bay (intentional or not) made Optimus Prime more morally grey as the films went on. yeah Prime does act a bit out of character when compared to most other incarnations of him but i feel he's way more realistic in the bayfilms. Optimus in the OG shows,games,movies etc is a PARAGON of leadership and righteousness but Bayverse prime feels more like a guy TRYING to be that. he wants to be the best leader he can be and god damn he tries but he's fighting in a war in a way that just isn't working. most guys go to war with this mindset and over time become more and more jaded and start tossing away all their rules about morality and their code of ethics. Optimus in the bay films is the perfect example of a Soldier whose just had enough. DOTM highlights this perfectly when he ruthlessly kills both Megatron and Sentinal the guy doesn't even give them a chance to explain themselves or to call for a ceasefire. Optimus just wanted the war finished not WON not LOST just FINISHED. this also explains why he's livid with rage and just starts blowing humans away in age of extinction because Optimus lost pretty much everyone he cares about and it was by the very people they were defending. In the bay films they pretty much flipped the roles of bumblebee and optimus where Optimus is the paragon and Bumblebee is usually the one that has to learn some kind of lesson but in the bay films it's the other way round Optimus is the one whose constantly learning and evolving whereas Bumblebee is pretty stagnant as a character.

[@dankmemer2774]

Prime believed in freedom above all else and he’s willing to trade lives for it hence the cybertronian civil war. He knew that by going forward with the exile, people will die, but the exile is the choice of the people so he has to stand by it. On a side note, the autobot sticking around wouldn’t have done much either. The decepticons have a ginormous army courtesy of the pillars and will remain on high alert, actively hunting the autobots. There is no way the autobots can take on that many decepticons head on without the element of surprise. By faking their “exile” and subsequent “death”, they are able to sneak into the heart of the deception’s place of operation and destroy them.

[@Bigbert835]

That has got to be the best topic you have covered. That fact I had watched DOTM so much and never knew this until you pointed it out is unbelievable. Now can you do a video about Transformers capable to do telekinesis. As the Fallen was able to do that in the final battle.

[@Jiro217theWeirdo]

The Government: Optimus Prime, I want you and your Autobots to leave earth, we can do this on our own. Optimus: I understand sir. Have a nice fight... The Government: Who needs him? *a while later* we're all gonna die! Optimus again: I told you so.

[@Lucas-be5so]

The Government : It was your fault what happened in Chicago

[@Jiro217theWeirdo]

Optimus again: Um, nope. You asked us to leave and so we did

[@Vidvidambusgame]

We saw the same article trans theories. The one about heroes becoming villains right? I legit read it about 5 hours ago lol. It also said he let thousands die to prove a point

[@Slow_Mo07]

Next video should be: "did Megatron brain wash Sentinel prime when he crashed?"

[@BlooMonkiMan]

HA! no.

[@KEITHYGAMR]

I love the video Trans! Now we were right about the believe of the humans that they can handle the Cons but, they were dumb they couldn't see they were bigger than them! Your the best Trans without you we wouldn't know about this!

[@adarkwind4712]

I feel like saying he’s trying to “make a point” frames it in such a way as to absolve the people who told them to leave of responsibility of the consequences of their choices. He complied with their requests any fallout from that is not on him it’s on the people who trusted the people named decepticons. Like the man said “Freedom is the right of all sentient beings” so he let them choose and then helped save them from the consequences of their own choices once they realized they needed help.

[@unkownperson9250]

Can we get a theory on why the auto bots are so powerful compared to most deceptions I mean there wasn’t many auto bots in DOTM yet they were able to defeat an entire army

[@giannisms1861]

The way i see it is that the autobots had backup by yhe human millitary. The autobots never fought the decepticona alone.

[@unkownperson9250]

@@giannisms1861 yea but they can only do so much most of the battles the autobots are defeating like a whole lot of deceptions

[@plantainsame2049]

I haven't sat down and watched any Transformer media in years but I always thought that they were like thousands of Decepticons and only a couple of Autobots but those couple of Autobots with the best of the best and that's why they survived for so long quality ever quantity

[@op_gamerytz9556]

plot armor

[@OneWithNoFace]

At first I thought this was talking about how optimus became a cold blooded killer

[@acethebeast9971]

I don't think we'll ever truly know, even with your knowledge and theories I must say this will be a never ending debate.

[@boi_oil]

5:49 I never realized it looked like Que was looking for his glasses lol

[@Figmentofmypastlife2715]

HE IS BACK WITH ANOTHER BANGER

[@mikeydavid4500]

Finally I now see why the Autobots were hunted in AOE and in TLK, and it's all thanks to the backstabbing traitor, once the leader of the Autobots, I hate him, you hate him it was all Sentinel Primes betrayal that lead to the 4th and 5th movies. Since it was mainly the Autobots that were being hunted down. Due to Sentinel Prime killing a good Autobot, destroying the N.E.S.T. base, bring hundreds of Decepticons to Earth,and working with the Decepticons the people now question the loyalty of the Autobots. And the rogue, CIA operative Harold Attinger made his own cybertronian hunting squad called Cemitary Wind. And for TLK well you got me there, maybe it was because the government thought that the Autobots brought vengeance apon their world, so they are hunting enemies friend and foe often killing them. Or it was just because Michael Bay just forgot what to do next for the Transformers franchise so he just copied off his last movie.

[@TheBoringLlama]

Sentinel is the biggest troll I'm afraid

[@Grillenheimer]

Think by TLK Bay was just throwing it all as lewd as he could so Hasbro would let him go... and not make the movies anymore. I mean really... a cute little Transformer that never talked and when it finally does it's F.U.? Really? Ugh.

[@wesleywoody1835]

@@Grillenheimer well bay wanted to stop at dotm

[@bumblebeenation]

Wow i actually never though of this but your videos makes it to the point, Love it!

[@therailfanman2078]

People call bayverse prime a murderer, But in war you don't win by talking, you win by killing. Prime is a war torn bot who's tired of the war.

[@TheBoringLlama]

Inb4 possible argument

[@therookie360odst5]

I’m glad you’re making more videos.

[@khumokwezimashapa2245]

Optimus: You see. I was right about the Decepticons Humans: You let thousands of humans die. Optimus: True, but I was right. Humans: INNOCENT LIVES WERE LOST!!! Optimus: Like a wise man once said. A small price to pay for salvation Humans: 😑

[@christianparrish3292]

I see you're a fan of Ben 10. Same here man

[@Lucas-be5so]

Optimus:YOU EXILED US! HOW Can THAT BE MY FAULT?

[@potatoexe5410]

Optimus:No, I didn't let them die. You let them die when you tried to send away your only ray of hope.

[@jackiechan8136]

Awesome video man! I have the same opinion as you as when I read Optimus’ lines it made sense, thanks for the the video

[@Theorymus]

Anytime

[@cutupkev9322]

I love tuning in to all transformers related content. Who else feels the same.

[@exonymousprime]

I believe you hit the nail on the head and proved how Optimus wanted to respect humans' right to decide for themselves and still be there for them when the Decepticons went back on their word and attacked

[@jaredpower1019]

And then government brought the cemetery wind and found the autobots at Mexico City thinking it’s autobots fault and attack them after what happened in Chicago

[@carlosbanegas7561]

Prime should've played the "I've been fighting cons since before you were born" card

[@shadowviper5160]

I love this channel so much

[@Theorymus]

Thx

[@GARDRAWS]

Government: let’s use our explosives to defeat these intelligent, big robots Fodder Decepticon: **pulls out laser shotgun** are you threatening me, insect?

[@sonicx24cool51]

This take makes Age of Extinction and The Last Knight a little more tragic in my opinion. Even though the Government made the mistake of letting the Autobots go even though they needed them to fight back against the Decepticons, the Autobots in the end would still become hunted by Human organizations made by Government officials with Cemetery Wind and TRF

[@aliciaayala5644]

Yo i learn so much of these vids great job

[@DJXPRIME]

Please please I’m bring what if series I got idea’s 1 lockdown 2 shockwave 3 stinger 4 sintenal prime 5 sideways 6 wheeljack

[@justyturner4387]

Government: Nah, we can deal with the Decepticons, I mean, how hard can it be. Chicago: "Took over by the Decepticons overnight." Optimus Prime: Told you so. Government: (sigh) Please just, do what you do best.

[@fadinglight3920]

I feel like the whole concept of it being the government's fault, makes so much more sense in age of extinction and the last night. The US government does have a bad habit of pinning their mistakes on anything and anyone else. Would explain after the fact that the Autobots saved our word three times and they still want to have them killed. And it was easy to pin it on them because the Autobots said they would leave but due to starscream they couldn't which gave them their excuse

[@KiritheIndorapterfan]

Awesome video there dude keep up the great work as always bro i love your videos they are awesome

[@Theorymus]

Thanks my man I really appreciate it

[@crdbtmn8232]

I think it was much more for a tactical advantage as in DC invasion they had to retreat if the decepticons knew they were still around it would be highly unlikely they would be able to make it anywhere near the pillars.

[@nocturnalcreature5639]

Great content dude👍 Love your channel

[@Theorymus]

Thanks

[@optisprimusproductions]

"Freedom is in the right of all sentient beings." *Proceeds to kill hundreds of decepticons with ease*

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

Hey hey hey, the decepticon choose to be conquerors

[@Fraudkuna9]

To be fair they had the right to choose what they do. It was just the wrong choice

[@unrestedtank4172]

I’m in the middle about this. I think Prime was just following orders, but then later thought ‘maybe I could prove a point with this’

[@alejandroelluxray5298]

This was humanity's mistake, not Prime's. And the autobots needed time to arrive and prepare to fight

[@shaden99]

To be honest, that was THE BEST way for Optimus Prime to give point to government. That wasn't his fault and like you said, he followed their order. The blame of this slaughter goes to government because they were foolish enough to trust someone they didn't know. Yes, we have freedom to make choices but we must know that those choices can lead to our downfall or even exctintion. And this scene was a great example. Sure, dark as hell and bloody but very good one. So, I am on Prime side. SCREW YOU GOVERNMENT!!!!

[@cyberforcelynch9619]

Optimus didn't know that sentinel was going to betrayed the autobots

[@UnknownSeekerProductions]

You’ve done it again!

[@stefanielaris2173]

I feel like he did, but not just 'to make a point' and certainly not because he was salty at the decision to send the Autobots away. I believe he knew what would happen (vaguely) and he had accepted the fact that the humans wouldn't just trust him and the Autobots without first understanding the true extent of the Decepticon threat. So he complied. He stepped aside and allowed the humans to call the shots, and when their schemes failed, he was prepared to step up and pick up the pieces. OP has been fighting the Cons for literal ages, he knows how they do things. What I hate about the whole plot of DotM is the fact that you have idiots who want to puff their chests out and say 'We can handle it!' when like...the experts are _right there_ just let them do their job lmao. I mean, conflict for the plot's sake I guess, but it felt so...irrational.

[@ZakTakesFlight]

Man I remember your early days and I must say the quality of your videos has really gone high keep it up

[@dustinfreeman1451]

I think Optimus should not revive Sentinel because he would find out that the plan for Sentinel was with the Decepticons. That leads to the attack on Chicago that left have a thousand dead. I do agree that Optimus got redeemed by killing Sentinel. However, he was then hunted by Lockdown because of what happened during that time. Hopefully, everyone understood how Optimus can deal with the enemies.

[@spoderman77]

Hi transtheoris im a big fan and youre my main person for transformers content

[@blackblack1167]

I’ve never understood the opposition to Optimus Prime coming back to Earth. I’ve got a friend who said Optimus was wrong for coming back, but the reasoning never made much sense. It was pretty similar to what you said. It still didnt make much sense. It sounds more and more like a reach everytime I hear it

[@YouKnowMeDuh]

Of course Optimus wasn't supposed to come back. Obviously, he should have let everything run its course and allow humanity to be enslaved, I guess, lol.

[@justbny9278]

@@YouKnowMeDuh tbf, hard to blame him, it's not quite his problem if they really really don't want him to even be there Optimus not intervening is still respecting their freedom to do bs, and he could get a more chill life somewhere else in the universe without having to do any of this dirty clean up costing the lives of his friends It's good that he's better than that, but fair if he wasn't too

[@ellorasg4525]

In my opinion Optimus acted like an exhausted dad who was dealing with his trouble making brat (humans) who refuses to listen to him. lol

[@metal_fusion]

It’s congress fault, Optimus Prime honored every word of Humanity and for the first time in the Bayverse movies Humans had taken every Deception the cons played them.

[@Renaldo900gamer]

This is really good👍👍

[@krod2836]

The great content continues

[@Theorymus]

Yes sir!

[@RaiEmpress87]

Love your content buddy

[@Theorymus]

Thanks

[@isaac7644]

good video keep the good work

[@Theorymus]

Thx

[@rainbowracer9576]

Amazing Video! 👏😄🌟💖

[@Theorymus]

Thanks!