Trap Cards and Nonbos | EDHRECast 126

[@alexcarpenter7951]

If you are playing a cascade style deck and you want counterspells, run modal spells that have the choice to counter and the choice to do something else that would be useful when cascaded into.

[@danaroach29]

I'd add the same applies to decks that auto-copy spells.

[@jordanbrengartner6886]

I'm building a taigam deck that uses cards like cryptic etc. Counter spells then rebound and draw cards or somethinf

[@Murwiz]

Also: you guys do realize that if you cascade into, e.g., Day's Undoing, you can choose NOT to cast it?

[@danaroach29]

@Tyler Frost right but Mystic Confluence with the pay 2 mana mode chosen twice and a draw chosen once is gonna basically be a hard counter when it tags them for eight, and it's gonna draw you two cards. I've also had it happen on more than one occasion where I go to counter something with Swarm Intelligence or something similar out, essentially giving me a second copy of that counter, and if the copy winds up being unneeded you can counter that redundant copy yourself with Arcane Denial drawing 6 for 2 mana. Even just Pongifying something and countering both copies with Arcane Denial or Confluence is worth drawing six in some desperate circumstances. Edit: Pay three mana mode not two, so technically it's gonna make them pay 12.

[@TyrWolf88]

It's a tricky balance, because on the one hand, you could respond to a thing by playing any 2cmc instant, and if your deck is set up for it, the only thing to cascade into is like that Swan Song. Yes, a modal like Silumgar's Command means that it's never dead to cascade into, but responding with a 6cmc instant to cascade into that or a Cryptic Command or whatever counter just isn't reliable, and if your group is on the higher-powered end, then holding 5 open for a counter may not be an option.

[@auroralee]

If you make a Discord channel you ABSOLUTELY have to have a dad jokes section. It's not a debate this needs to be a thing

[@danaroach29]

DONE!

[@draconic367]

I can't help feeling like the trap card/non-bo episode is a full episode version of "challenge the stats".

[@golgariguy]

Which is amazing!! :D

[@collecter137]

Myriad landscape says that you can search up to two basics that share a land type, you can still search for 1 basic that doesn't have to share a land type with anything. Still mostly useless, because you're spending two turns and three Mana on a tapped colorless land, but actually has some niche synergy with emrakul by putting a land into the graveyard to fuel her cost reduction ability.

[@noahmurtha4036]

Side note I do find the pro red swords to be useful in my Gadrak deck since most red board clears deal damage, and it stops him from dying to those cards 🤗

[@tmakalpha1]

Holistic Wisdom is from Odyssey, the icon is the Mirari - a pretty important artifact story-wise

[@kellylogs2642]

For me Helm of the gods is in a Sigarda deck and it's there because I run Ancestral Mask, Ethereal Armor, and All that Glitters already. I want as many of these effects as I can have and only 4 exist. Not to mention it's something I can cast before my commander, which the deck needs.

[@Redwud3381]

I found one in my Slimefoot, the Stowaway deck. Sporemound and Life and Limb leads to an infinite combo that won't stop unless someone can break the loop by blowing up one or the other.

[@Kazz1187]

True, gotta make sure you can interrupt your loop haha

[@leemay7780]

Everyone in the comments talking about Cascade being a may trigger: we get it. If you’re cascading into spells you choose not to cast you’re not winning and getting value which is the point made in the video. Modal spells a great suggestion made by others

[@hiddenleaf414]

People are pointing it out not because of the value not had from not casting the spell but from choosing to cast Days Undoing and ending the turn before even the Maelstrom Wanderer resolves when they didn’t have to. Ya know “If you’re cascading into spells you choose not to cast you’re not winning and getting value which is the point made in the video”

[@s4ad0wpi]

One Major Non-Bo I've come across when I put together my Lavinia, Azorius Renegade deck, is any card that increases costs of spells. With, say Grand Arbiter Agustine IV out, people have to pay extra costs on their spells, meaning they don't actually get countered by Lavinia.

[@mn6334]

In terms of gameplay they're a non-bo but in terms of flavor it's a win that they don't work together.

[@dhost8409]

Thank you for pointing that out, I'm going to be building her soon

[@mathewfrance5165]

Holistic wisdom is pretty interesting for abating an issue you guys have already talked extensively about: ramping spells not being able to function because youve already plucked all the applicable lands out of your deck. Now you have a means to swap a cultivate to reuse wrath of god, or some other huge utility sorcery(which there are many)

[@SWNJim]

Skullclamp in tribal decks that run a lot of lords and anthems. I see TONS of decklists that are running this non-bo.

[@egertalex]

Goblins and Saprolings do amazing things with skullclamp. I don’t like it in Merfolk or Zombies since there are better card draw techs you could be doing

[@SWNJim]

Right, but those two typically don’t boost the toughness of their creatures. For instance, I’ll see it in TONS of Edgar Markov (currently #4 overall) builds and then when you look at the rest of the deck, there’s several +1/+1 type effects, whether it’s counters (Metallic Mimic/Cathar’s Crusade/Coridal Vampire) or lord/anthem effects (Legion Lieutenant/Captivating Vampire/Stromkirk Captain). As of this post, Skullclamp makes up 76% of 4115 decks and the “average deck” has 12 cards that turns Skullclamp off (Bloodline Keeper [flipped], Captivating Vampire, Cordial Vampire, Drana LoM, Indulgent Aristocrat, Legion Lieutenant, Patton of the Vein, Rakish Heir, Stromkirk Captain, Door of Destinies, Vanquisher’s Banner, Stensia Masquerade). That’s not even including other vampire tribal synergies like Adaptive Automaton, Vampire Nocturnus, Nectopolis Reagent, Thirsting Bloodlord, Eldrazi Monument, and Radiant Destiny, Ascendant Envicar, and Bad Moon.

[@bradlyhaskell9821]

on the mana clash with zndrsplt and okaun it might synergies with the other coin flip synergy but yeah be aware.

[@jordanmcalister1361]

Running “planar bridge” in big creature decks like Eldrazis and then you planar bridge out “emrakul, the promised end” and realize...I don’t get to steal someone’s turn because I didn’t cast it😣

[@TheJimmythebass]

I almost fell into the trap of putting Lightning Greaves in Feather before realizing that shroud is not an ability that she wants to have.

[@Orkimtor]

About Nekusar: I think it's often just a deliberate decision to not put in wheel effects (or fewer of them) to keep the power level lower. A friend of mine has a Nekusar deck and he has a lot of fun between balancing to not be to threatening and in the mean time still do a couple of damage to everyone each turn. Similar with mana clash in okaun and zndrsplt: It doesn't really belong there, since it doesn't synergize with the commanders, but it can still be a fun coin flip card that fits the theme (and just synergizes less). What I am trying to say is: Don't be afraid to put thematic cards in your deck eventhough they may have less synergy then other cards, as long as you are enjoying them and they fit the power level that you are aiming for. Great episode as always, thank you guys :)

[@jacobgonsalves9093]

@EDHRECast For anyone who is a fan of playing Yidris, but wants counter magic. Use modal spells! They can be used even when cascaded off of and still get value! I use: Supreme Will Mystic Confluence Silumgar's Command Archmage's Charm Cryptic Command All of these allow me to have counter magic. An added hint, use expensive spells with mechanics like delve to ensure you don't hit them off of cascade!

[@gysahlgemuse7208]

Good thinking. I also use those in my Jeleva deck. When she attacks, the stack will be empty so you can't cast conventional counters. I built it in a way that each spell is useful at any moment.

[@DJCashEel]

thank you so much for the genesis wave recommendation, ive had so many issues with animists awakening, and genesis wave will fix that so much

[@Singe0255]

Just remember that Genesis Wave graveyards any non-permanent cards, where Animist's Awakening is bottom random. Could be relevant in decks with higher instant and sorcery counts.

[@Seuration]

@35:00 Dana, you might have to look at the age of the superfriends decks in question. They only fairly recently changed the rules of planeswalkers to people attacking them directly. Before that you had to attack the player and redirect the damage to a planeswalker. When those were the rules, the pillowfort option to protect your planeswalkers was amazing.

[@brick4939]

One big challenge the stats. I love it!

[@Spyyrozniper]

I actually play holistic wisdom in my wort the raidmother deck, and it works so well to just dump a carddraw sorcery in exile to bring back an X-spell like fireball or jaya's immolating inferno or hurricane, to finish up the game right after. High value card, really underplayed

[@rosspenney5158]

In Valduk's case, having a turn 3 Valduk wearing Greaves preventing you from enchanting or equipping it isn't too debilitating, as he makes extra bodies to put the Greaves onto in order to target him. But with other more creature light Voltron decks, you're gonna have to order your plays very carefully with Greaves.

[@danas8194]

I couldn’t think of any dad jokes but the bazaar of Baghdad jokes sold me sacks of them

[@Darcmerc]

I actually run Stormtide Leviathan in my Arixmethes deck and I consider it one of the best cards in the deck. There are a bunch of island walk creatures in the deck. If I have a bunch of creatures without island walk I will just keep in hand. And if it's the only creature on my field it's still pretty good. Doesn't really hurt my commander, as I keep him as a land most of the time. If I turn Arixmethes into a creature he gets removed instantly most of the time, my playgroup got onehit killed by him too often. :D

[@bennydeckard]

I see people playing Stormtide alongside Archtype of Imagination to completely shut down everyone else's boards while having your own flying big dudes kill everything.

[@craig3536]

I play both of them, and Stormtide is my favorite card.

[@verigone2677]

@@craig3536 I love dropping Archetype in my pillow fort Arcades deck.

[@briandries8141]

I also run wonder and levitation in my arixmethes deck. A bunch of huge flying sea monsters is hilarious to me

[@melind82]

A lot of these cards are what I normally call "win-more" cards, as in they only really help your deck if you are in an already strong position or your board is in a very specific state. You do want a few of these cards but they should win you the game, not just give you an incremental advantage.

[@HeartOfStone.]

You guys are awesome nobody talks about the subjects you do and they're great subjects at that!

[@soulanski]

I actually had to take glacial chasm out of my lord windgrace deck just because it was such an overwhelming card in my playgroup

[@zacsnowbank7632]

Kaalia + Earthquake is very much a meta decision that I wouldn't call a nonbo. If your meta is full of token or other go-wide strategies that can somehow outrace Kaalia or control decks with key creatures that you need to kill, Earthquake can be very useful. Whether Kaalia not going all in on aggro is a valid strategy is something else but Kaalia has more reasons to kill creatures than to remove blockers. Edit: Also, Myriad Landscape can grab one waste, since it grabs UP TO two basic lands that share a land type. No need to check if they share a type if you only have one.

[@Vinyears80s]

I agreed with the Nekusar/Howling Mine part. Every Nekusar player should watch that.

[@egertalex]

@@andrewamann2821 problem is that nekusar is very much a target being something like a go to the throat can deal with. Where as if you play wheels you do better things especially with a Defense Grid like effect. I would almost say Nekusar does better with stax effects

[@egertalex]

@@andrewamann2821 What about a hive mind and graveyard shufflers like the Eldrazi titans

[@egertalex]

@@andrewamann2821 I think with that thought you are better off playing Kess. Which I have run over so many kess decks with Ghave it’s not even funny

[@egertalex]

@@andrewamann2821 What about Karn the great creator and artifacts like Gonti’s Heart and Ugin nexus for exile plays

[@egertalex]

@@andrewamann2821 you really hate combo don’t you

[@jacobmusic3278]

lol I accidentally put Farseek in a Yisan deck becuase I didnt read it, just thought "mmm muh ramp." Definitely made me feel dumb

[@sawderf741]

Lol

[@pletes100]

Got into a feedback loop in my Grismold deck with Tainted Aether and Illness in the ranks. Grismold got locked down by Pacifism and after 4 turns or so no one could keep a land or do anything. After that I've learned to not put those down together.

[@gerardochavez1528]

YES on the challenge the stats! Valakut/dryad is how I win in my Rienne deck. Throw a realm razer into the mix and you have repeatable 30-90 damage on each of your turns

[@yoshiman9521]

holistic wisdom is great to ditch your turn 11 rampant growth and turn it into your bomb spells

[@danieledwards4310]

Play helm of the gods in my sisay shrines deck because she is a removal magnet so I'd like repeatable power buffs to tutor my shrines to play easier

[@Petronio39]

I run animist's awakening in two decks. The first is rosheen meandered, where x cost synergy makes this feel really good, and cards like genesis wave/nylea's intervention are already being played. The second is my mono green storm deck, where generally I just make X= the remaining cards in deck, and pull/untap the remaining lands in my deck out, with surprising consistency.

[@jfire6194]

"No counterspells in cascade decks" *Laughs in First Sliver*

[@Rocjhead118]

Animist's Awakening doesn't work well in landfall decks, but is GREAT in Wort, the Raidmother! Copy it and you have a ritual effect that also ramps you. I run 40+ lands in my wort deck so having a surplus of lands doesn't go to waste.

[@asimpletrashgoblin8109]

Malachite Talisman is almost literally a hidden gem

[@TheRealQwade]

Biggest trap: Flayer of the Hatebound in Chainer, Nightmare Adept. Both cards come in the madness precon, Flayer is run in 50% of all Chainer decks, and it's even in the list of "High Synergy Cards." Flayer DOES NOT trigger from Chainer! Sure, there are a lot of other reanimator effects you can run in the deck to help out, but casting a creature via Chainer's ability means the creature enters from the stack, not the graveyard.

[@Sarcodes]

I'm just happy to know I'm not the only one to have put Farseek in a monoGreen deck

[@mvargasmoran]

I saw so many Sai, Master Thopterist lists with panharmonicon but the thopter is created at cast.

[@crawdaddy2004]

But Sai still runs things like Mycosynth Wellspring or Solemn Simulacrum, Mulldrifter, etc. I think it depends on the deck construction.

[@azazelmorningstar5631]

@@crawdaddy2004 I play Sai and the only card I would add is simulacrum, mulldrifter is good but there are better options, mycosynth welspring isn't ramp and with the amount of cards you draw in blue it's easy to hit mana rocks which actually ramp you and you have plenty of thopters to sacrifice to Sai

[@crawdaddy2004]

Azazel Morningstar - my only point is that Panharmonicon is not necessarily a bad card in Sai, as “it depends on deck construction”. Sai, for an artifacts commander is pretty open when it comes to what direction to take.

[@Solemnyty]

Only place I like Helm of the Gods is in Alela. Since she cares about both enchantments and artifacts.

[@noahwatkins6222]

Same

[@xBenjiSx]

I also have it in my Shu Yun enchantment/aura deck. It's cheap, triggers Shu Yun's abilities, lets me make him bigger after a board wipe, and maybe doesn't draw off Mesa Enchantress, but still works with Jeskai Ascendancy and Whirlwind of Thought.

[@Solemnyty]

The Whirlmind I like that too.

[@jakefrompc6287]

I like it in my Sram aura deck

[@Solemnyty]

@@jakefrompc6287 I like that too!

[@abentevent]

I like helm of the gods in my enchantment focused alela deck. It makes a faerie when cast and usually boosts alela quit a bit. I would also windmill slam it into a sram voltron deck.

[@ArborusVitae]

People playing Dryad of the Illysian Grove into Carpet of Flowers is a feels-good. Would definitely like to see more people playing it for the sake of that ;)

[@dreddbolt]

> Helm of the Gods This is something I would run alongside Trinket Mage and Deadeye Quartermaster, since I would probably only have so much important equipment in my brew, to the point I want the extra options. Also, there's very cheap mana rocks, so I'm covering multiple bases. The artifact also goes quite nicely in a more aura-heavy Valduk (Keeper of the Flame) brew. The helm is also a nice investment, because I probably might not have a good target for a buff right away, but the gamble is worth it, especially when Sram (Senior Edificer) is in the brew. I'm generally not going to invest card slots in cards which store cards from my hand in an enchantment-centric brew, so the helm is a good investment while I wait to set up. ... > Howling Mine ...and Font of Mythos are in my Nekusar deck, because they already help me way more than they help my opponents, and it lures my opponents into a false sense of security. I even have Notion Thief and Narset (Parter of Veils) to counteract the hugginess of those mine effect cards, if I ever even need to. My opponents are almost always too excited and give their plans away by playing spells they usually would avoid casting so they don't have to discard them to my wheel spells. They over-commit to the board as I would usually expect, and I wipe it with cards like Vandalblast, Ætherize, Blasphemous Act, Toxic Deluge, Archfiend of Ifnir (accompanied by a wheel spell or three), Sigil of Sleep (accompanied by usually just a single wheel spell), and C-Rift... not to mention my spot removal (3 walkers and an instant) and counterspells (5, and they all do something special, or have special properties). You need to be more patient and resourceful than the Nekusar player in some cases. Most of the time, I find people fail to learn how to beat a Nekusar brew if it doesn't follow the usual expected pathways of the group slug deck it is. People get distracted by other opponent's big flashy spells, and I sneak in with copies of their own big flashy spells, enabled by Reverberate, Wild Ricochet, Dualcaster Mage, or Twincast. Even more lovely in the early game when my opponents impatiently cast their ramp spells they were too over-invested in to comfortably discard, and I copy them. Most of the time, people just didn't pack a Naturalize and a Krosan Grip in their brew (or didn't draw them), so I generally have carte blanche to indulge in almost all of my evil science shenanigans. Heck, Howling Mine and Font of Mythos generally indirectly deflect aggro with my play style, since my other opponents end up drawing too much attention to themselves, and away from me. Most of the time, my opponents just don't encounter Nekusar (the Mindrazer) often enough to learn his patterns... or rather... my patterns. Nekusar basically not only taught me how to play commander around the time he was printed (2013?), but my brew's changes over the years taught me how to play Grixis control... by letting my opponents think they're in control. > all the other cards mentioned ...right on. Checks out.

[@kingfuzzy2]

Really happy you mentioned the talisman a friend mentioned the interaction to me and I totally want to use it in my kamahl druidball tribal deck. Really loved the episode so many Janky points of view good ideas as a Johnny to build off or improve on tyty.

[@Mr_Myst13]

One thing I want to share with everyone that is also a non-bo is putting permanent cards with Dredge in a self-mill deck... I have an Alesha deck where its graveyard engine is by rummaging/looting and I also made a Nethroi deck focused on self-mill... I tried to put Dredge cards in both lists (Stinkweed and Thug in both, and Grave Troll in the Nethroi), and I immediately realized while playtesting is that while the Dredge cards in the Alesha deck are so powerful, the same is not true for the Nethroi list... If your focus is milling directly rather than draw-discard, then permanent card Dredgers are not going to be good... The only dredger that I only have in my Nethroi that stayed after that realization is Life from the Loam, since it can put itself into the graveyard even without targets...

[@verigone2677]

My Nekusar deck is full of howling mine effects...but it also has as many draw punishment and hand size punishment cards. This build strategy was implemented to keep the target off of my back. If you are slamming Nekusar then wheeling a bunch you are going to be a target, if you are slowly killing everyone while giving them cards to deal with each other you get more opportunities to build enough pieces to wipe the whole board at once.

[@BoredOCM]

On Stormtide Leviathan, Archetype of Imagination. Creates a combat lock out for everyone else at the table besides you. Edit. Lol, you even mentioned it, nvm.

[@Kikaiderfan]

My nonbo I still run is lattice in a Ramos deck. Yes, it effectively turns Ramos buff off, but 5c is tough on mana.

[@borislibaque1558]

about farseek in green, it does specifically name the lands as opposed to saying 'basic'. I actually really like this spell in multicolour decks where green is the bulk of it because it finds duel lands. In that way its actually one of the better 2 mana ramp spells, since a land is much safer than a mana rock in staying in play, and it is a decent trade off to having an untapped mana rock (few would argue that rampant growth is a bad card). Also a lot of duel lands or ability lands that read 'mountain', or 'plains' for example come in tapped anyways, so I'd rather cheat them out from my library rather than having to waste my 1 land drop or 1 draw on those cards if I'm running them

[@TheFirstTriplefife]

I played a group hug deck and my brother played Kaalla. We ended up ending the game with him earthquaking everyone. It killed everyone, but me who had the most life.

[@jonasknox3113]

I made an voltron-enchantress deck with Kestia at the helm. In the deck i had enchanted evening (turning all permanents into enchantments) and a Archon of suns grace, realising that with these two in play, I would turn the game to a stalemate because of the forced token generation from the Archon's constellation trigger. I of course remowed the archon.

[@stevenluoma1268]

I run a nonbo in one of my decks. Neoform and Grafdigger's Cage. The only time it's bad is when I want to neoform and I have Grafdigger's out

[@EpicGamerz01]

I was building my aura-based Illuna, Apex of Wishes Voltron deck and almost put my Sword of Fire and Ice in the deck. It wasn’t until I was shuffling it up the first time that I realized “oh wait, that keeps me from mutating, I should take that out”

[@RevnaVarea]

Used Animist's Awakening in my Zaxara deck, it's not amazing, but it doesn't feel that bad even if you whiff on lands.

[@thetogtube2]

Great episode! I am running so many of these ... OOOOPS... haha Helm of the Gods - in my GOD tribal is just such good flavor... but All that Glitters would do more for sure. Animist's Awakening - in my Zaxara deck seems good because you get a x/x hydra too... but i usually just get a 4/4 or 5/5 and one land :( VALA-CUTE - is over $20 and comes into play tapped which is rough. But I like that interaction with dryad. Would be great in my Radha deck.

[@thetogtube2]

@@kennethmurray9003 It seems to only get my one land for 5 mana every time I cast it... so that is a bad rate without Zaxara on the battlefield. But that deck eats up mana so I leave it in.

[@ThomasSturm]

I've a Zaxara hydra/X matters deck, in which genesis wave is the non-bo since one'll just end up with a bunch of dead hydras.

[@anonypoke7486]

I see so many Estrid decks running Ghostly Prison and Propaganda, and I'm like, do you WANT people to attack her?

[@noahmurtha4036]

I feel like most people forget the MAY clause on cascade cards. You don’t have to cast it, which yes doesn’t help the want of extra value, but there are ways to get around casting stuff 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@batmanwins5701]

Malachite talisman is an absolute beast in my elf deck.

[@DerpyLaron]

Dryard valakut combo seems good, but as an auto include of you run the dryard? Hell no, if the Dyard isn't out that's a dead draw and tap land that only taps for only color

[@scaner411]

The dryad can be a second copy of Prismatic Omen if the deck's primary/alternate win-con is doming opponents with Valakut

[@DerpyLaron]

@@scaner411 Still a very inconsistent combo for an auto include

[@apjapki]

I learned so much in this episode

[@travismoon1011]

One I had was in my Jhoira Weatherlight Captain deck I ran Grafdiggers Cage, but I didn’t realize that it stopped my mystic forge combo or my Emry value engine

[@forneusatseaworld3252]

maralen of the mornsong was the first commander deck I ever built and I put in a necropotence.

[@oateater5044]

In regards to cascading into counterspells. You should still play Mystic Confluence and other modal counterspells like Izzet Charm.

[@kingfuzzy2]

Absoposilutly charms and modular spells.

[@TheJackal760]

Hey guys, love the podcast. Something to add about cascade and counterspells. Cascade is a may ability, while yes you dont get your free spell if you cascade into a counterspell you can still choose to put said spell on the bottom with the rest of the exiled cards. In the case of maelstrom wanderer. I know a few people personally that put a few high up side counter spells like mana drain, spell swindle, or plasum capture in thier decks to counter maelstrom wanderer, get the other free spell, and have mana next turn to cast it again.

[@unknownyoutuber2007]

I run Animist's Awakening in my Radha, Heir of Keld deck and it does massive wonders. Most players don't run many basic lands. Mine is _ONLY_ basic lands. So I often acquire far more value than anyone else from it.

[@knightfromlordran]

26:50 I have a Golos Valakut deck and Ive been running Dryad of the Ilysian Grove and I usually win when I get it out due to the fact that it fixes colors and I ramp like crazy and deal tons of damage

[@amingsus5831]

Popular Tribes with fliers according to Dana: angels and faeries Dragons crying in the corner as the number one edhrec tribe

[@Trasgobardo]

Two-headed Giant too is used in Okaun//Zndrsplt deks even when it doesn't win any coinflips. It may had been because it was from Dominaria with the actual wording that I detected it immediately. Mana Clash still got under my radar until three months ago.

[@zackkelley2940]

Archetype of Imagination would go well with Stormtide Leviathon. All your creatures get flying and all your opponents Lose flying and can't get it back^^

[@Mr.Smitty420]

My personal favourite commander is Atla Palani, Nest Tender, I play it as big things spin the wheel and see what we get and I play both Vigor and Apex Ultisaur, and with Vigor on board, Enrage can't trigger as any damage is prevented, but even though it turns off that very powerful piece of removal I would still never actually remove one or the other because at it's worst, it's a 10/10 that now just gets even bigger 🤷‍♂️

[@ripkus5756]

Helm of the Gods is the one artifact I run in my Sythis deck and I find that it doesn't slow the flow one bit.

[@robertbentley2897]

I know this is old, but holistic wisdom is really fun for planeswalker commander decks as well.

[@kro8592]

The most recent card I realized was a trap card in a deck of mine was in my Mizzix deck that's structured around moil effects (mind moil). Looking back, it should've been obvious, but effects such as Thought Reflection hurt the deck more than helped the more it was refined. Since the deck wants to get locked into a loop of moil effects, if a thought reflection effect is in play, it becomes a matter of if my opponents die before I have to draw my deck. I have yet to loose because of it, but there was at least 4 or so times where it was close because of this. I've since removed these reflection effects since the deck really doesn't need them, especially at their cmc. The deck wants to cast itself multiple times over when it goes off, so those effects are essentially a cancer to it.

[@dragade101]

With hyper specific cards like RIP, I'll look for this as a tutorable/drawable effect. That I'm the enchantress player who draws too many cards, playing the spells I care about. Thus I will hold into RIP until its clear that I must let things rip (a bad soul guide lantern). Or play it proactively if my opponent looks like they reanimate (that their value is far greater when they reanimate it and likely they are in black and cannot deal with RIP as a permanent).

[@XeroGold]

Proud to own one of the 259 Holistic Wisdom decks.

[@pirateye68]

I have a Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker deck. I am running Consuming Aberration and Leyline of the Void & Ashiok, Dream Render. I personally think that turning off CA is fine if I am also turning off graveyard decks while I play mill. Definitely a nonbo though

[@scottricks1676]

I wonder how many times ive gotten a forest off far seek *face palm* glaze over when adding the "ramp suit*

[@IBeScrappyDoo2]

The actual term "Nonbo" is used for a combination of 2 or more cards that you think combo together, but actually don't. Therefore it's not a "Combo" but a "Nonbo."

[@drorian]

the best nonbo I had was cataclysmic gearhulk after putting 5 big boys into the battlefield simultaneously with atla palani. it happened twice, then I removed it from the deck -_-

[@sittacarolinensis8448]

DANA you're not even going to mention the other 4 Talismans in that Ice Age cycle!? The green was one by far the most useful so I getchya, but I am here to say that the blue and black versions have made some big turns in games for me as well. Good rec nonetheless, just wanted to add on.

[@sittacarolinensis8448]

Also, thank you Joey for calling out Animist's Awakening. I won't say it never hits big but it whiffs hugely and so sweetly waaay more frequently. Always haaated it.

[@kylesavage4525]

Personally i like Helm of the Gods in an enchantress deck. Yes i know it won't draw u cards but the effect is very strong to not include it. I mean if u have like 40+ enchantments u will never have issues with drawing cards out of the enchantresses anyway so just cause it does not add up to the enchantment count as well is not a deal breaker. As far as the anti-artifact cards u might have in ur deck it is definitely a nonbo with them if there are plenty of these effects. If u have just a Stony Silence then it's unlikely that u will get both on the battlefield. Besides Stony Silence effects tend to get removed asap by the artifact players so it won't always stick around. And if it does the benefit of screwing ur opponents' artifacts greatly outweigh the fact that the Helm is a dead card.

[@lonsmithicus]

Earthquake is my favorite card!

[@Sp0rkXNinja]

I use to see Holistic wisdom in decks online back in 2011-2013 when I started getting into EDH but never consider playing it.

[@tortle1055]

I think if a card directly prevents your win condition from winning the game, it should also be cut. I experienced this in an enchantress deck that would draw my entire deck and then try and win via non creature spell. I had to take out whirlwind of thought or I’d deck myself.

[@adamhall1340]

Malachite talisman is absolutely fantastic in Marwyn. I don't run the infinite umbra in that deck so it's my biggest Mana generator. It's a must add.

[@FriendlyNewt]

I'd say normal creatures become a problem around 6/6 or 7/7 so earthquake will likely cost 7-8. For that mana you can get some of the one sided board wipes like In Garruk's Wake, or Ruinous Ultimatum. Both of which get enemy fliers as well. If you're worried about the late game or devote too many slots to ramp (ramp is bad for lategame) earthquake might be a good option (as well).

[@tmakalpha1]

I've put Approach of the Second Sun in my Estrid deck but it's a nonbo with Estrid's ultimate 😭

[@gysahlgemuse7208]

That is not a nonbo, it's a play mistake.

[@LunarWingCloud]

I play Day's Undoing in Roon of the Hidden Realm. It's funny to stop my opponent getting back stuff I exiled until the end step and refilling my hand is nice. Make sure Day's is in a deck that likes it

[@gerardochavez1528]

Interestingly in a deck like my Ashling, giving her pro red is actually really important despite her being red. She can’t damage herself with her ability, which ends up saving a ton on commander tax as the game continues

[@bellightnings1954]

Good challenge the stats, I've been wanting to try those cards, and I can see what you guys are saying about Kaalia and Earthquake. It does seem like the type of deck that would rather have a board wipe in that slot that can help catch up when they're behind and the one thing that would probably convince me not to run Earthquake would be that it deals damage to myself as well, and that would be dangerous when you're already playing a deck with a powerful commander that can easily become a big threat. I'm sure Austere Command and Ruinous Ultimatum are already run a lot, but there are probably plenty of different options now especially in Mardu colors. Could do the classic Living Death if you have a sacrifice outlet out, preferably one that doesn't cost mana to activate, also cool when you just exiles your opponents' graveyards

[@bryceparker4261]

You don't have to cast the spell off of cascade so counterspells and days undoing are still pretty viable in cascade decks.

[@ujai5271]

Obligatory "casting off of Cascade is optional" post. They didn't have to cast Days Undoing.

[@alexandergartner8877]

Biggest trap I ran into was playing a Kotophed in my 99 just because I liked him. Someone dropped a Smothering Tithe and I had to mill myself to death a moment later. Given the ubiquity of Tithe I'd suggest to cut him from every single deck.

[@bryanbonar]

I used to play Stormtide Leviathan in Scion of the Ur-Dragon.

[@breakingtide]

Mana clash may be a nonbo but its still great with krarks thumb because if ur lucky u could potentially do massive damage for 1 mana

[@charlesboucher2370]

One of my first decks I ever made was a stormtide leviathan control deck for 60 card. I ran a bunch of flyers and island walk creatures. It was brutal

[@supraspintus1124]

I feel animists awakening is much better in the three or four colour land fall decks where u kinda want more nonbasic lands including say like the urza's lands where when u have all three out they tap for an additional two or three depending on the card so if u r lucky u may net the same amount of mana u cast it for