Trap Relics and Potential Comps -- An Overview of Relics Worth Using in World vs. World

-- While the new Relic system may have underwhelmed some people, it's added impressive flexibility to a number of different professions and roles within World vs. World. In this video, we cover Relics that enable support and damage playstyles, as well as a handful of Relics that have powerful effects if a group is able to stack together enough of them at the same time.
-- It took me some time to get all of the requisite footage together, and complete the testing that I wanted to do in order to profile these changes. And I still didn't get to do everything I wanted -- for example, I still haven't managed to put together a squad with over ten people running Cerus at once and coordinating the spike. That will have to wait, I suppose.
-- Socials:
twitch.tv/sheffplaysgames
VoDs @ / @sheffplaysgamesvods
Discord @ / discord
-- Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:42 Relic of the Monk, Relic of the Herald, Relic of Antitoxin
03:17 Firebrand and Relic of the Pack
04:10 Firebrand and Relic of the Zephyrite
04:42 Firebrand, Vindicator, and Relic of the Flock
05:21 Relic of Fireworks and Relic of the Thief
05:43 Relics Worth Comping Around
06:14 Relic of Cerus
07:13 Relic of the Citadel
08:03 Relic of the Unseen Invasion
09:05 Outro
-- Logs
Chronomancer using Herald, starting 00:42: wvw.report/K3bV-20230902-2309...
Chronomancer using Herald, starting 08:03 (I'm not actually using Unseen, just giving Veil for others who are): wvw.report/irAf-20230902-2323...
-- Music Attribution
Luminance by Ghostrifter bit.ly/ghostrifter-sc
Creative Commons - Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported - CC BY-SA 3.0
Free Download: hypeddit.com/track/zvp874
Simplicit Nights by Ghostrifter bit.ly/ghostrifter-sc
Creative Commons - Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported - CC BY-ND 3.0
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Departure by Ghostrifter bit.ly/ghostrifter-sc
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Celestia by Ghostrifter bit.ly/ghostrifter-yt
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Midnight Stroll by Ghostrifter bit.ly/ghostrifter-sc
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[@sheffplaysgames]

This comment compiles things that people have mentioned outside this video (e.g. in my Discord, on Reddit, etc), as well as updates to the Relic system: - The September 12th balance patch changed the internal cooldown on Antitoxin to ten seconds, up from five seconds. This doesn't make Monk/Herald better, but it does make the profession-specific Relics more interesting. Tempest will now generate more cleanses overall using Trooper. Firebrand is now quite a bit better using Flock or Pack. Vindicator, because of how badly it needs cleanses, may actually keep using Antitoxin. Druid, I still haven't played, so couldn't tell you. Sorry! - Keguing, in GuildJen's Discord, notes that many guides recommend Isgaaren for damage because if all of your damage players run Isgaaren, you can all benefit from placing marks on enemy players. This is true, however, it sounds like Isgaaren isn't consistent with when it applies the marked debuff to enemies. Until I have better information on how it works, I don't want to recommend it, but keep an eye on it for sure. - Perle, in my Discord, says that Relic of the Sunless has been wrecking them with immob in PvP. Spellbreakers and Berserkers that are running Leg Specialist convert all of the Cripple from Sunless into Immob, which is a very fun and good synergy for those professions specifically. Outside of Leg Specialist, I think it gets considerably worse, and I still have a preference for spike damage off of Relics like Thief and Fireworks.

[@EruElpidus]

This is a nice summary. I haven't been playing recently but last I checked, pretty much any build can benefit from relic of speed. Relic of the warrior is pretty great on the berserker too(especially hammer/gs), allowing you to get more F1s off.

[@sheffplaysgames]

I think it depends a lot on what group you're running with. Speed is great at keeping you alive if your group is relatively unstructured, and you're clouding out, or doing some pugging. But when you're in an organized squad, trying to maximize what each individual player does within that squad, it's just too selfish for my liking. e: Relic of the Warrior also feels like it's gotta be busted on SOMETHING, but I haven't figured out what yet. It's nice on Warrior, it's kind of nice on Scourge, but...there's gotta be a profession that it's great on, and I can't figure out what.

[@jp104]

Agree with the above about relic of speed. It’s a "selfish" relic but so good on almost anything. Also quickness support chrono with healing mantra and flock relic is quite promising.

[@sheffplaysgames]

Yeah, Flock is very, very good on the boon Chronomancer build. That's something I just didn't have room to include, to keep it under ten minutes.

[@jordangreen5136]

I've been enjoying Citadel when running Berserker and using banner offensively, after some testing the ranges look to be the following: Targeted or nearby enemy within 600 range gets a 200 range AoE planted at their feet after the elite finishes casting, then 2 seconds later up to 5 targets inside that 200 range AoE get hit by the stun The 600 range element is what makes this relic particularly effective I think, it means you can have a target near the front of their group when you use your banner on the tail, and if they're not very sticky then 2 seconds later the stun just hits the tail while they're catching up

[@NikolaBudinov]

Great video! However you missed to mention Relic of Speed which is one of the greatest according to me and can work on every class. But it is probably the best on Scourge and Reaper.

[@cheshirecat742]

It's funny cause the Antivenom one I kept thinking about, and ya having the extra condi cleanse is way more important now a days in WvW. I know a lot of builds are Power based, but the condi based classes really do a number on your Zerg if no one is cleansing them off. Plus all the Siege gear that can apply conditions so the power builds just need to finish you off can be more than enough to wipe your group :)

[@sheffplaysgames]

It's the non-damaging conditions like Cripple, Chill, and especially Immobilization that get you, and being able to get at any Immob effects with your cleanses is huge for keeping people alive.

[@oliver8848]

It sucks that the monk effect got utterly gutted with the relic. No more getting 10 stacks from 1 skill.

[@sheffplaysgames]

Losing Monk has been bad. Losing the Resistance from Durability has been even worse. It's definitely been an adjustment to not have either of those bonuses anymore, and try and find other sources of healing and defensive boons to compensate.

[@oliver8848]

Hopefully the upcoming balance patch addresses some of these issues. Also i dont like this video cos i saw myself get killed in one of the fights against blue :(((

[@sheffplaysgames]

Yeah, I think the balance patches (and expansions/living world updates) are going to be really interesting, as they start to fold in more effects. I have a feeling that the Relics chosen for SotO release are relatively "safe", and once the dev team got a better understanding of what's strong, they could start to push the boundaries on some interesting new ones.

[@alphaxneo]

I was wondering about the trooper relic, as I'm mostly on my tempest when I play support and cleanses when I use a shout skill (which I use often). Is there an icd of the relic that makes antitoxin more favorable to trooper?

[@TheHKZero]

On tempest specifically trooper is better.

[@sheffplaysgames]

Ok, buckle up, because it's a little complicated. This is one of those "trap relics" in the title. Trooper is better on Tempest in two specific cases: (1) You need specific control over your outgoing cleanses. (2) You need burst cleanses. In all other cases, Antitoxin is better than Trooper. The math is a bit like this: Antitoxin clears a condition every five seconds from any clears you have -- this gets clears off of everything you do, not just shouts. Trooper clears a condition every time you shout, no ICD. For every five seconds of cooldown on a shout, Antitoxin could be clearing one condition in the background. So if you look at "Wash the Pain Away!", by the time it comes back up (20 second cooldown), Antitoxin can clear four conditions by the time it comes back up. You can only run a maximum of five shouts on Tempest, but you generally don't run "Aftershock!" and "Flash Freeze!" at the same time, and you also generally don't cast "Rebound!" on cooldown. So if you mash all your Shouts at the same time, you cleanse a lot more in that moment, but then everything goes on cooldown. That whole time, Antitoxin could be running in the background, gradually catching up. And it only takes a few seconds of you needing to wait to cast a shout ("Eye of the Storm!" is especially vulnerable to this) for Antitoxin to overtake Trooper on cleanses over the course of a fight. I got this one wrong originally -- I suggested that Trooper was good on Tempest in comments on my own build guides. But after I sat down to actually do the math, I just don't think that's the case.

[@alphaxneo]

@@sheffplaysgames thank you very much fro that breakdown! I had thought something like this was the case because I kept seeing people favoring Antitoxin over Trooper anyway. Will definitely try it out :D Also, not mentioned above, but thank you for making videos about WvW specifically and how to capitalize on relics and such, it's much appreciated!

[@sheffplaysgames]

It had me tripped up too, until I sat down to actually look at the numbers. It's *so* counterintuitive that I wouldn't be surprised if Antitoxin gets nerfed, or Trooper gets buffed, because if you can't make Trooper work on Tempest, you aren't going to make it work anywhere. And I appreciate the kind words -- I very much enjoy talking and thinking about this stuff with people, and appreciate everyone who takes the time to chat about it, ask questions, or share their experiences in return. :)

[@sheffplaysgames]

I'm not going to say I called it, but the patch today increased the cooldown on Relic of Antitoxin from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. Trooper is better on Tempest now, as long as you're running at least three shouts. In some cases, it's probably better if you're running only two shouts, as long as you're using both on cooldown.