Treason: A Potted History of the Law

[@nyckolaus]

You're mistaken; I could listen to you for hours as you detail every incremental shift in the statute concerning treason over these seven intervening centuries. I could just listen to you for hours.🗡

[@ReadingthePast]

You are most kind ☺️

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

Me, too, I’ll be thrilled to listen to anything you might tell us for as long as you want! You’re so erudite about my favorite topic, history, and always a pleasure to listen to. I wish my fellow Americans were even 1/4 as articulate as you are. With all the conspiracy theory, crazy, stuff on SM these days, I love listening to you and a few others who know what they’re talking about, and say it so very well. I just spent an hour enduring a doctor who felt he had to explain what recurrent, cornea and erosion, among other basic terms mean, duh, give me some credit for understanding my native language, at least, I’m not 4 years old. Sadly, he probably does have to explain everything for the functionally illiterate society that comprises most of the US population today.

[@baylorsailor]

​@@kimberlyperrotis8962 you sound like a real sweetheart. - Your Fellow American 🇺🇸🗽

[@tasanijanus7092]

I second that

[@mikalbell8125]

I particularly enjoyed the part of the video about Petit or Petty treason. The idea that there was a special law for an inferior killing a superior seems strange to us, but makes perfect sense given the belief in a Devinely ordered hierarchy at the time.

[@AthenaisC]

Great video, Dr. Kat. Did you know that in the US, treason is the only crime completely spelled out? Our founding fathers did this so no one could just make up reasons to call something treason. I love hearing your perspective. ❤

[@jenniferh671]

As a follow up to last week’s video about Anne Boleyn, a video about the men who were accused of and executed for treason for “knowing” Anne would be interesting. We hear so much about Anne, some about her brother, but not much at all about Smeaton, Norris, Weston, or Brereton. Thank you!

[@deannabryce8194]

✋ 22:05 have heard the term ‘read the riot act’ but never knew the origin. Love your channel.

[@prettypic444]

I think it's interesting how "treason" was originally a crime against the social order instead of crime against the government like it is now. I'd love to see more videos on early modern laws and courts!

[@nickmiller4814]

I second Nyckolaus! And bless you for using the lovely traditional translation of Psalm 51!

[@tessat338]

Wasn't the local official required to read out the riot act? Also William Joyce was born in Brooklyn NY in 1906, so technically, he was an American citizen. His family moved back to Ireland when he was a child. He eventually acquired a British passport, which is the excuse that the Crown used to claim that he was a British subject and therefore eligible to be hanged for treason. Joyce became a naturalized German citizen during WW2 and continued to broadcast to Great Britain until he was captured at the end of the war. The US wasn't claiming him and Germany couldn't protect him in 1945 when the British government decided to try him for treason.

[@tessat338]

When American enlisted personnel were charged with a civilian crime in Great Britain during WW2, the US military could intervene or they could just leave the servicemember to be tried by a civilian criminal court. Before US personnel were deployed to Great Britain, the US government signed an agreement to this effect. Officers had the privilege of being court martialed but the Crown could argue that they should be charged with a civilian crime. Joyce was not a US service member and his mother was a citizen of the United Kingdom. His father had been a naturalized US citizen before Joyce was born.

[@julzy3]

I knew of the benefit of clergy loophole, but I didn't know that it was called the neck verse. 😂I think Henry Tudor's choice to change the date of the Battle of Bosworth Field to the day before, letting him retrospectively declare as traitors the enemy combatants, was impressively Machiavellian. Thanks for an excellent presentation as always!🪓

[@spews1973]

More videos on anything to do with Edward VI will always be welcome. And I'm looking forward to the one on scaffold speeches. I suppose the soon-to-be-executed said nice things about the monarch because otherwise they really could be making things worse for themselves, or at least their families.

[@janicegierhart7778]

I love listening to you talk about my favorite subject: British history. 😊

[@arcola44]

Another excellent video, as always. Had no idea that the Riot Act was originally from the reign of Edward VI👍. Also, discussion of the "Neck Verse" was fascinating. It put into context for me some American Revolution trivia. When John Adams defended the British Soldiers on trial for the Boston Massacre in 1770, he was able to have them acquitted by arguing Benefit of Clergy. They simply 'read' Psalms 51:1. They were branded on their thumbs and sent back to their unit. Awesome. Look forward to every Friday! Thanks.🪓

[@gladtobefreeagain7375]

Thank you for the Boston Massacre story. Must admit I never understood John Adams's legal argument & most often it's glossed over to make point of his skill & belief in rule of law. In this case a legal loophole for clerics that saved non-clerics as well. Still chafes that Parliament did not have the foresight to insist British colonists were due representation & were not essentially property of the King. Hindsight & all ...

[@natalee7726]

I have a suggestion - how about a video on Jane Seymour focusing on her rise to becoming Queen. That would be fascinating

[@hadrianryan4179]

I would LOVE videos on the two Rebellions you mentioned! This was a great video. I love these histories of the evolution of one specific idea anchored in different historical moments!!

[@dawnmuse6481]

As soon as you mentioned Edward III’s reign as the inception of codifying what treason is, it made sense. As each revision occurred it was obvious that the point was to silence disagreement and to punish those who acted in an objectionable way when no law yet existed. I really hate power without accountability!

[@deborahbranham-taylor6682]

Seems to be the definition of kingship. Power without accountability.

[@Roz-y2d]

@@deborahbranham-taylor6682 Not in the UK since Charles the first lost his head.

[@kelleysharp3989]

At first I wasn't sure about this topic. But the shifting nature of it was fascinating. Especially the part about a wife killing her husband being a form of petit treason. I wonder when the definition shifted to murder? Perhaps when women's suffrage came about? Or was it something that just happened naturally without being explicitly written. Well done as always! I'll give a 👑, since treason was 'usually' against the monarch.

[@ShallowApple22]

Scaffold Speeches, Absolutely Fabulous idea ... i for one have a morbid curiosity about such things it plays into all my interests history psychology and crime. so excited ❤

[@Steve-y9d]

Thanks for another great video outlining the Justice and Injustice ⚖over the centuries

[@vickihewlett6121]

Would be most interested to have clarity on the difference between treason and rebellion. As usual time well spent in your tutorial. Thank you

[@karmakat8016]

Dr Kat, I have to say you are looking amazing, have a wonderful weekend xx

[@dilihopa]

I’ve been a longtime subscriber and want to say how lucky we all are for your informative, thoughtful, and detailed explanation of every subject you present to us. ❤ from 🇨🇦

[@susaniacuone5758]

Given that this weekend marks the horrific bungled bad death of Margaret Pole ( my putative many times ancestor ) this new video seems particularly apt. Thankyou as always

[@baylorsailor]

I wonder how common it was for a person to be declared innocent after going to trial in Tudor times 🤔... I feel it would be rare.

[@keithcampbell9582]

I look forward to your posts every week. I am usually able to follow. Today, I was assigned some homewrk. After this weeks presentation, I had to look up "Branding of the thumb" and "Lord Haw-Haw." Fascinating! 🚬😱👻

[@eshim3961]

A man who murders his wife is guilty of murder, but a woman who does the same is guilty of treason. Says a lot about society. Great video, as always.

[@margaretgeorge3903]

The shifting boundaries are amazing. ☠️🦹🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♀️

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

I would love for you to discuss who in the royal family is required to be a Protestant and a member of The Church of England. The sovereign is, of course, but his/her spouse? I’m sure virtually all of them are, but what if a royal duke, if second in line to the throne, wants to marry a Catholic, Orthodox, Jew, or someone of another faith? Are they then ineligible to accede to the throne? (Not that I’m considering chasing a royal, like Meghan did)! Thanks, Dr. Kat!

[@catgladwell5684]

What has Meghan to do with it? AFAIK,she and Harry met and fell in love. There was no "chasing a royal" involved.

[@BriansJerseygarden]

Dr Kat I could listen to you for hours you truly are a fascinating orator

[@andreaedwards8644]

Dr Kat you have no idea how much joy you bring to my life and have done for a long time now. No day is complete for me without listening and learning from you. With much love and appreciation to you from Australia. 😊

[@theclassicso8094]

An outstanding and fascinating presentation of the history of the treason law. Thank you very much.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Looking forward to this! Love your channel and you so much girl!😊😊❤❤

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you 😊

[@BeeKool__113]

As always, Dr.Kat fantastic video. Very informative and interesting. I always learn something new each time I visit the channel.

[@Twisties34]

interesting as always Dr Kat.

[@Chris-iz1rd]

Very cool! I did not know some of this. I understood High Treason and the Riot Act, but learned so much more. Thank You.⚔

[@amykortuem5554]

Thank you for this explanation. Tyranny and treason seem to be terrifying dance partners. How does a population know what’s treason this week? And regarding last week’s video, how HenryVIII (with his minions) found a way for Anne Boleyn to have committed treason is chilling.

[@evelinharmannfan7191]

Yes, but but by then (trial of Ann Boleyn) he had already disposed of so many mighty persons and friends, noone dared to oppose him. He had already crushed any resistance for the acceptance of Ann. (Katherine, Wolsley, Thomas Moore, his firstborn daughter Mary, several bishops, the monasteries, the ENTIRE CHURCH; there was nobody left to stopp him.

[@irishwoman3975]

Thank you for an excellent explanation of treason, there is more to it than I supposed.

[@gladtobefreeagain7375]

Excellent discussion today. We Americans often do not know the exact origins of inherited English Common law. Please explain both rebellions you mentioned, Katz & something.

[@illrawb]

Dr Kat, all of your content brightens my days! Much love from Canada!

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

The framers of the US Constitution were educated British gentleman, who knew ancient, medieval, and then-modern, history well. They banned Acts of Attainder from our American constitution because they knew how abused this method of conviction was by powerful sovereigns in their past history. Treason is rarely prosecuted here, it has to be a clear, well-evidenced case of betraying one’s country, as in the famous “Johnny Walker Reb” case. (He fought for the Taliban against US military forces). One of the things that amazes me is that in English/British cases of treason “tried” by Attainder, the assets of the accused were seized for the benefit of the king upon arrest, not after due process and conviction. Parliaments under powerful sovereigns were extremely compliant with their sovereign’s wishes, being afraid for their own lives, families and estates. Attainders thus became an all-too-easy way for the king to kill a political enemy, seize all his assets for himself, and destroy the family of the accused, as Henry VIII did to poor Wolsey, Cromwell, Anne and George Boleyn, Thomas More and others. It was that big no-no in law “arbitrary and capricious”, covered by a thin veneer of legal process.

[@Roz-y2d]

Your country didn’t exist when that was true of Kings. And since Charles the first lost his head it hasn’t been a problem for our nation.

[@anneshelton3476]

Terrific video! Shifting from harming actual people to an institution is an interesting concept. 👺

[@karensilvera6694]

🧨🎇 still love your modesty but you know how much we all love listening to you and your knowledge!

[@jakual339]

For me, this video really feels like the perfect level of detail for a more "conceptual" topic. The knitty gritty of how laws and conventions change is interesting too, don't get me wrong! But it's really useful to see this kind of broad overview of how something has changed over time. Love it! < This emoji is conceptually representative of "treason", for reasons which I hope will be obvious.

[@rhiannonpoole6019]

Another fascinating video, thank you. I was intrigued by the 'Neck Verse': I'd never heard of that. I would love you to tell us more about those rebellions - the more I watch your channel the more I realise I just don't know. It seems to me that Tudor Monarchs especially got laws changed at the drop of a hat, thinking only of their own selves.

[@denisehill7769]

Great video! I would love a video on Kett's rebellion, being a member of the Kett family 😁

[@johnguglielmini6658]

how about a video on Old English slang terms that are not used anymore

[@ReadingthePast]

Oh, this is very interesting! I’ll see what I can find on this!

[@aimeclance4196]

I always look forward to new videos from Dr Kay. Love her!❤

[@Itsfineweerallfine]

Love this exploration of treason, and your work in general!

[@NicholasJones-p7j]

In this 400th anniversary year of the "First Folio" could you do a video on another point of law please? I've always been led to believe that it was illegal for women to act in Shakespeare's time but have since realised that everywhere I had that reinforced had the influence of Ben Elton s wondered whether it was a law, a convention or something else entirely.

[@kathyjohnson2043]

Yes, everyone now says 'illegal ' but apparently, the only reference was when the King (Charles II maybe?) 40 years later said it was ok for women to be on the public stage. Women were professional entertainers in London, and on stage in other countries. It seems to be one of those 'it's not done' kind of things afterall, the theatre company was The King's Men. I hope Dr Kate covers it sometime.

[@nmritter]

I LOVE yr channel so such!! It's my break from the world. I want to take a vacation tour to England with Dr. Kat!! I cannot get enough Dr. Kat!!!

[@deborahbranham-taylor6682]

Love your videos! Give us more, on any topic you desire. They are all fascinating, and I doubt that you will bore anyone. You have a loyal following of history fanatics. ❤

[@LauraLeMond]

Kett's Rebellion and Prayer Book Rebellion would like a video on those. So interesting! I've been read the Riot Act a bunch of times in my life LOL maybe a video on a few common sayings and where the history of each term comes from?

[@Theturtleowl]

When you're a law student and a history buff this video is a perfect combination.

[@Hfil66]

It is interesting to compare the way the law on Treason had been used in the past and the law on Terrorism is used today.

[@janegardener1662]

Very interesting, thank you for taking the time to research and explain this.

[@christinegraham2579]

Thank you, Dr. Kat! I so enjoy your videos.

[@bobbyb8335]

🥷🏻⚔️ Very informative as usual! Keep it coming!

[@gr8flyerfan]

🤚 "Read the Riot Act" was a favorite expression of my mother's!

[@prettybirdbeenlpeacock6592]

Mine, too.

[@debgallagher5709]

I thoroughly enjoy your channel. Riveting and entertaining. My Thank you!

[@patriciahill6839]

As usual ànothé interesting podcast. Keep doing what you do...Great stuff 😍

[@ElliotOracle]

I love every video you post Dr. Kat! Thank you 😊🙏

[@katytaters1552]

Amazing as always Dr. Kat!

[@simplyjulia3740]

🏴‍☠️Love the info! Interesting that treason is still an evolving law today.

[@cosgroveshepherd191]

Really interesting. Never knew the original riot act was so old, I wonder if the changes about treason now is a response to people like Shamina Begum, asking to come back after being involved with a hostile force. Really great video. Thanks

[@nicolebrunzel6608]

Thank you for another informative video. I love listening to you so much.

[@Magic_in_York]

✋ - would love a vlog re Kett's Rebellion. Read the Shardlake book a couple of years ago and it whetted my appetite!

[@leetaylor3468]

I love your videos Dr Kat. So informative.

[@harrietlovejoy3424]

As always, enjoyed your video! Looking forward to scaffold speech video 😊

[@caroleharris3450]

👋 wonderfully explained Dr Kat

[@caroleharris3450]

🌳 🌞

[@kaymead8210]

As always, very interesting & thought provoking

[@sauvignonblanc0]

A highly interesting video on a matter of constitutional and legislative import which the British copied throughout the Empire (including Ireland, New Zealand and Australia amongst others). Thank you. 😌

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you 😊

[@sauvignonblanc0]

@@ReadingthePast Given this video on treason, it would be interesting to do a video on the Lord Jeffreys who adjudicated on many a treason trial during the reign of James II. 🙂

[@elainemaclellan2425]

👍

[@maryarigho5868]

@@sauvignonblanc0 'Hanging Judge Jeffries'. Saw a portrait of him in the National Portrait Gallery, London and was surprised that he looked so young but had a cruel expression.

[@deborahbranham-taylor6682]

@@sauvignonblanc0 I second this!

[@lauramason5667]

What a fascinating subject. I can hear more and more about this and please do more videos on the subject of treason. What a great channel you have!♥️🎁☺️

[@cindys2617]

I find it perplexing that the original treason law included acts against the monarch's first born son and daughter but apparently not the balance of their offspring. While I understand the significance of the "first born" in medieval society, it seems remiss to exclude the balance of the children, particularly since so often it's not the first born that goes on to rule and/or inherit. You'd think the law would have named all of the children of the King/Queen. Any explanation for this seeming oversight?

[@nancywilms6319]

Thank you.

[@vlmellody51]

👋 I particularly love Terry Pratchett's rendition of the Riot Act in "Jingo."

[@theresalaux5655]

Very interesting Dr Kat. ❤😊

[@malcagottlieb6084]

Great video!

[@RobinLynnGriffith]

Thanks for the reminder I double-checked and you were right it was not set for all on the notifications suddenly❤

[@barbdiamond4924]

I do so very much enjoy your programming … I too am dyslexic … to the point I can’t retain/ understand anything I read … so please do continue …. And thank you in advance

[@jacobhanson4391]

🖐️ Love this video as much as all the others!!!

[@BeeKool__113]

Sidenote and completely unrelated. Dr.Kat, I really love your makeup. ❤

[@kayleenfeher4341]

My mother used to read me the riot act a lot when I was little.

[@beckywillis5640]

Only just starting this one but soooo excited for the scaffold video

[@teleology60]

✋ Fascinating lecture.

[@karibaritunes]

♥ I absolutely love your historical documentaries.

[@amyferebee]

Both rebellions please.....thank you for your wonderful videos!

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Magnificent video as always!

[@ReadingthePast]

Thank you 😊

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

@@ReadingthePast np!

[@mariahunter9882]

Wonderful video, as always. Thanks so much for your teaching. 🍄🏛6

[@jeanweiher1525]

A very interesting topic.😮

[@megremisfamily4music]

Great content, Dr Kat! I always wonder how English kings like Henry VIII wielded so much power and could execute for treason given the Magna Carta.

[@Hfil66]

My understanding is that much of the Magna Carta was repealed soon after it was enacted. In any case, Magna Carta or no Magna Carta, England (nor the UK) never had a formal constitution by which the acts of the Crown (or more recently, Acts of Parliament) could be judged, and only very recently have we even had a Supreme Court.

[@marykelly1723]

@@Hfil66 What guidelines did British gov't follow during the time of Crowmwell being the Protectorate of England?

[@Hfil66]

@@marykelly1723 after a war the victor makes his own rules. As a comparison, look at the Nürnberg trials that found people guilty of crimes that had not been crimes at the time they were committed in the jurisdiction in which they were committed (while ignoring crimes that had been committed by the victorious nations).

[@karenkorab8269]

⚔⚔⚔⚔⚔ Love Dr Kat

[@rosencrantz3133]

That was utterly fascinating.

[@duncansonoryan]

This was fantastic. Thank you!

[@joefitzpatrick3361]

Very educational, thank you. Subscribed because I like what you find interesting in the finer details.

[@Kris-bw7cv]

Definitely would love both

[@madelinevanderbunny607]

Thanks!

[@ReadingthePast]

🥰🥰🥰

[@SGalli-ff6nf]

Great video, thanks so much🎉

[@danisarmi30]

Yes for a video on both rebellions

[@OkieJammer2736]

Saw recently where a KZbinr with a huge following predicted the demise of the British monarchy within two years. Sure would be treason to Henry VIII...

[@BeeKool__113]

🤚 Yes, I have heard of the Riot Act

[@JohnLandau-h5g]

Any discussion of "treason" in British law should not leave out the famous case of Sir Algernon Sydney. Sydney, who was from an old aristocratic familly and a large landowner, was charged with "treaon" after he participated in discussions with other upper-class men about organizing an "armed march" on London aimed at forcing the king and parliament to change the succession to thrown. They did not want Charles II's younger brother James to succeed to the throne because he was a Roman Catholic, and many Englishmen feared the Catholic church at this time. However, they quickly dismissed the possibility of asasinating the king. Then none of them could think of what this proposed armed march could accomplish. So they decided to abandon the plot and dispersed without resolving on any action. Also at this time, a defendant could only be represented in court by an attorney if the judge consented to it. In this case, the judge, a man named Jeffries, refused to allow Sydney to be represented by counsel. In a line that became famous, Sydney pointed out to judge Jeffries that he had no legal training whatsoever, and was not competent to plead his own case in court. He said asomething to the judge that would be become a famous line, "I fear I am on treacherous ground, milord I do not see my way." Sydney's case was an especially tough one because he was accused of "treason." As you know, Dr. Cat, the English law in incredibly confused and difficult to interpret. Sydney did his best to fend himself at his trial, but his defennse was confused and disorganized, and did not make a good impression on the jury. He was convicted and hanged. However many members of parliament, some of whom were personal friends or aquaintances of Sydney, considered this a gross miscarriage of justice, So they included in the Bill of Rights that they adoptedin 1689, a provision that in any criminal case in which the defendant was "in danger of life and limb," "the right to consel shall not be denied." A century later, this provision also found its way into the U.S. Bill of Rights. Dr. Kat, please do a future podcast on the Sydney case. I will be only too happy to share with you my sources on the subject.

[@gretchenmoore2768]

I love History Hits! I just signed up!