Treating The Scale Pattern of Waxless XC Skis

[@craigcampbell7460]

Appreciate the tip of brushing the scale after brushing the tips and tail. I'm going to try it. Excellent video's BTW. I like your style and they are informative.

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks so much for the kind words, Craig Campbell! I appreciate the feedback. One of the interesting things about scale patterns on waxless skis is that many manufactures actually cut those scale patterns out of the base material. For example, many scaled skis start out with a base similar to a skate ski (and then the scales are carved out of that base). Since that's often the case, it would stand to reason that the scale pattern should be treated in a similar fashion as the glide areas (tips and tails). Anyway, so glad I could be of service. Hope you have a great rest of the winter. And, let me know if you have any questions!

[@lindaloo206]

The hard of hearing and deaf will truly appreciate your thoughtfulness. Trying to watch a show is like watching TV with no volume. Thank you.

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks, Bobbie! Like I said before, I'll do my best to get all my relevant videos available with CC. It just takes time... :)

[@KowalskiVanishing_Point]

Excellent straightforward advice. I have skied offtrack for many years with waxless skis and only came upon similar advice a couple years ago. It works!

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks so much for the kind words :) I always find that the grip zone on waxless xc skis is often the place where most snow clumps and sticks (at least in certain sticky snow conditions). And those scales are so defined that a little bit of glide wax on them shouldn't hardly affect the grip. Again, thanks for tuning in and contributing to the conversation :)

[@KowalskiVanishing_Point]

@@JaredManninen OH, yeah. I'm using Madshus Annums and Fisher S 112s. Pretty wide skies and beat up from rocks. Snow clumps so bad sometimes they're like platform shoes. Using paste glide wax now and put a little on the grip zone now. Works wonders. I like your idea about brushing the area with waxing brush though and am going to give this a try.

[@JaredManninen]

@@KowalskiVanishing_Point Haha, platform shoes! A great description and a total resistance training workout :) I find that even just consistently brushing out the bases with a bronze brush seems to do wonders for keeping skis prepped for the next adventure.

[@ronreyes7077]

Thanks for the tip!! Cakey snow clumping on, yeck!

[@JaredManninen]

You're welcome, Ron! Thanks for tuning in and for the feedback :)

[@kirkrasmussen9629]

Jared - just wanted to shout out that I really like your content. I am in CO and gave up downhill skiing about 6 years ago (expense and fear of high speed out of control skiers) and got my family into XC skiing. Been at the Nordic centers mostly, but with COVID protocols last year taking the fun out of everything I started hitting the off track options with my Spider 62’s and really liked it. Upgraded to Excursion 88’s and legit backcountry NNN BC bindings and boots for this season so I stumbled across your channel in my research. Your advice has been super helpful. Also kind of fun to see my old stomping grounds - I learned downhill up at Mt. Rose in the mid 1970’s and worked there in college as a lift op - then skied all the other resorts at Tahoe with reciprocity discounts that made it affordable on a college kids means. Keep up the content - great stuff. 👍

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Kirk, Thanks so much for the kind words :) And for tuning in! It's great to be able to toggle between xc skiing on groomed terrain and in the backcountry. I think you'll enjoy the Excursions so long as you're not trying to tackle too much deep snow. But between my 62s and 88s, I can cover a lot of the season off-trail (again, except for the deepest days). Those kinds of backcountry xc skis are just so much fun, and they seem to be able to take a lot of punishment. So, I look forward to hearing your stories of snow adventures this winter! My first job in Tahoe was working as a liftie for Heavenly down here on the south shore. I'm grateful that it got me into snowsports, but I'm kinda over all the big-time downhill resorts. So many people, and such long lines. The thing about xc ski resorts is there's never a line (because there's no lifts - haha!). And usually, once you're about a quarter of a mile from the resort everyone is already spread out so much that it never feels crowded. That's great that you've gotten your family into cross-country skiing, as well. I hope they enjoy it as much as you :) Anyway, take care and let me know if you ever have any questions.

[@solojo928]

Your move at 2:16 would almost certainly result in me yard-saling and tumbling down the slope in a very ungraceful way. I'm learning a lot from your videos, thank you for making these!

[@JaredManninen]

Thank you for tuning in, Solo Jo! Ha Ha, being confident on the skis is definitely a practiced and learnable thing. I hope you watched the very last few seconds of the video, because i occasionally fumble too 😆

[@markdavis8888]

I have always hot boxed the whole base with a universal glide wax and rotor brushed the base while it is still hot. One treatment works all season long.

[@JaredManninen]

That definitely would work great! Unfortunately, however, I think the average person has never heard of a hot box let alone where to find one so that they could have their skis hot boxed. But I do love the idea :)

[@JerzzyJoe]

Nice snow!!!

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks, Joseph! I wish it could be like that all the time ;)

[@deancooney3900]

Just subscribed. I like your info. Thank you. I raced GS in highschool. I now am addicted to BC skiing, and I wax the crap out of my stuff

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Dean, Thanks so much for the kind words :) I totally appreciate you subscribing and tuning in. I, too, love cross-country skiing in the backcountry. Super fun and there's just so much freedom associated with it! Thanks again for watching and the comment :)

[@thibod07]

Thank you for sharing! Yes I was able to get something from that video! Well done!

[@JaredManninen]

You're welcome! Glad I could be of service :) Thanks for tuning in, and for the kind words!

[@gustjerry9139]

Thanks for the heads up on waxing Waxless skis.We are new to cross-country skiing and need the advice.

[@JaredManninen]

Glad I could be of service, Gust Jerry :) Check out some of my other xc skiing videos and articles, too, when you get the time. They may be helpful as well. And feel free to ask me any questions. I'm more than happy to help!

[@tarmach523]

Thanks for this, went skiing the other day on no-wax skis, snow was fresh and wet, and grainy. Made my ski session feel like I was trying to go over tacky glue.

[@JaredManninen]

Thank you, Tar Mach :) Yeah, not a whole lot of stuff worse than the snow constantly grabbing your skis! A lot of times, the grip zones on waxless xc skis are the worst culprits for collecting snow. Anyway, thanks for the feedback and I totally appreciate you watching!

[@ssmith954]

This was helpful, thanks. There is surprisingly little information on waxing backcountry skis and I'm sure that's in part why a lot of people just buy 'waxless' skis and then call it done.

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks so much for the kind words and comment :) Yeah, I think people don't necessarily realize that their skis do need to be maintained, even if only occasionally. I've had so many people come into the rental shop (at which I work) with skis of all kinds (track and backcountry) that never have done any waxing to them. Mostly they come in to ask why their skis are sticking so much or not getting any glide. And the scales can be the absolute worst at times because they are often neglected. Anyway, thanks for watching. I appreciate it!

[@steveevans424]

THANKS Jared ....oh and 'smile' :)

[@JaredManninen]

Thank you, Steve! And just watch the blooper clip at the very end for all of the smiles :) haha!

[@markjadick7475]

Very helpful, thanks for the advice!

[@JaredManninen]

You're welcome, Mark! Glad I could help. Let me know if you have any questions :)

[@fostersavitsky7175]

I would actually recommend some fluoro free easy wax, or liquid wax to apply to the scales, or even the entire base if you don't want to use an iron. Just make sure that you brush afterwords with a soft or nylon brush. And if you're really looking to spend as little money as possible, an unused toothbrush can actually work pretty well too as a brush substitute.

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks for the feedback, Foster 👍 I prefer to use a quick glide wax for the scales too 😊

[@brentkelly5445]

so if you were to want old ski's to use as a winter camping sled, not ironing and scraping hot wax but applying liquid wax would do? Half the work and cost?

[@JaredManninen]

​@@brentkelly5445 Using the quick liquid wax would definitely be better than nothing. Not sure how much more glide you'd get on them with it, though, as it's kind of an "easy on, easy off" type of a wax. That said, I don't know that I'd really want to fully hot wax those skis if they were just pulling a sled. I think as long as the skis don't ice up, that's a good thing. So you may have to use multiple applications of the liquid wax to those skis depending on distance. I might also consider using one of the newer temperature spray waxes that seem to be more durable than quick liquid wax. In the back of my mind, I can't help but wonder if those older skis will even accept a lot of wax to begin with. If they're an extruded base, it's not going to last. Only if they're a sintered base, designed to accept wax, will it last long. So, maybe liquid wax would be as good as it got?

[@ruthforsey3940]

Super info! thanks!

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks for the kind words, Ruth :)

[@DrBenGelfant]

Very helpful. Thanks

[@JaredManninen]

You're welcome! Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it :)

[@steves71]

Always very informative videos ,thank you !!

[@JaredManninen]

Again, thank you for the positive feedback. I appreciate you tuning in :) Let me know if you ever have any questions.

[@safiya9504]

I just spray some Goo Gone onto my Marquette backcountry skis at least 30 minutes before skiing.

[@JaredManninen]

Interesting! I've heard of people spraying Pam cooking spray or silicone on their ski bases in a pinch. But using Goo Gone is a first for me 😊

[@safiya9504]

@@JaredManninen also if I spray it on my skis seconds before ascending a hill, it provides the perfect amount of tack to climb the hill. I tried the same with silicon, but silicon provided way too much stickiness. I guess once I make it to the top of the hill, I would have wait a bit for the Goo Gone to dry out.

[@dhgmllcshea5038]

Thanks Jared. Great info very well presented! And thanks Safiya. I never thought about bringing the silicone spray as a temporary klister to get up icy hills! I ski mostly flat trails and use silicone spray on a paper towel, let the propellant evaporate for ~5 minutes to protect the ptex base from the propellant. Wipe it on and rub it in to a thin coat.... and then there is no more sticking! We only need this during late season and occasional sunny fresh snow conditions at 30-34°. Good for 4-6 miles.

[@JaredManninen]

@@dhgmllcshea5038 I apologize for taking so long to respond but, for whatever reason, your comment was buried in my "held for review" folder. But I appreciate you contributing to the conversation. I like your process of using the paper towel, not just to protect the base from the propellant, but also because it's more ecologically safe since the paper towel keeps the silicone from spraying everywhere. Thanks again for watching and commenting!

[@grantsmith3514]

I know I have bended your ear today but I was wondering what wax to use for tips and tales here in the Sierras' I have a pair of 15 y/o S_bounds and would like to wax the Tip/Tales. Of coarse the local REI is worthless in this regard. Will have to order! Is it going to be red or Yellow or a universl?

[@JaredManninen]

No worries, Grant :) As far as wax goes right now in the Sierra, I often wax colder than necessary (for durability's sake). For example, the last few mornings it was around 16 degrees, and then the temps got up into the high 30s during the day. So, for those situations I'll usually crayon in a thin layer of purple and drip red over the top. Today, however, is about 36 degrees in the morning so I'd just use red and maybe add a little bit of yellow (for later in the day when it's supposed to reach the low 40s with possible rain). One of the current waxing trends is to use a hard/cold wax as a base and top coat it with the wax of the day. That's kind of what I've been doing for awhile mostly because it's often pretty cold and firm in the morning, then warmer/softer in the day. I just hate the idea of only using that softer wax for later in the day if I'm going out a bit earlier (and risk scraping/scouring all that softer stuff off first thing). Anyway, that's what I've been doing :)

[@filmic1]

Hey Jared, just treated my Madshus Voss MGV+ waxless with Swix CH6, tip to tail. I got a bunch of wax on the scales, didn't move the iron quick enough out of the way. I used my KUU waxing iron to try and get the little into the base. Should I remove that wax with wax remover? I want to put some Toko EXpress universal over the scale section. (I did scrub off the oxidation with a Scotch Green pad. I got it all off.) Thanks for all your postings and feedback...

[@JaredManninen]

Sounds like you're elbows deep in the ski waxing! haha! I wouldn't worry about getting wax in the scale pattern like you did. If I were you, I'd just heat that wax that dripped in the scales up enough to wipe it away with a paper towel. Then you could brush the scales out a few times (tip to tail). And the scales should be treated enough that you wouldn't actually need the Express wax. I actually know a couple of people who storage wax the scale pattern every year to make sure the scales don't dry out. And then in the fall, they just heat up the wax with the wax iron and wipe the scales free with paper towel, and it's all good. Hope that helps, and good luck! Let me know if you have other questions or want additional clarification :)

[@filmic1]

@@JaredManninen Great, Thanks a ton! I have my MGV+ and a pair of Salomon Elite 7 Classic. (we were a skiing family as a kid, my first pair of XC were Asnes Tur Langren, way back.) Not much reliable snow here on the Quebec/Ontario border the past two winters. Hard to get into the zone when the snow is unreliable. It's great to see you folks are getting a good dumping on. Fill those reservoirs. Scary. Enjoy your postings! Cheers.

[@beckyrep1]

Thanks Jared. Uh, newbie here ... I notice you're applying the wax in only one direction ... I was looking for the ski tips to tell me what direction. I assume you don't want wax to clog up the scales, so that would be front-to-back direction with each stroke, yes?

[@JaredManninen]

Hey beckyrep 1, thanks for the question! Actually, it doesn't really matter what direction you apply the quick wax. It's probably more out of habit for me to work in a tip-to-tail direction. And, the fact that the scales are directional probably plays a part in the way I'm applying it. You won't "clog" up the scales either way you put it on. For better and worse, it's going to come off relatively quickly no matter what you do. The different quick glide waxes such as Swix F4 and Toko ExpressWax tend to be easy to apply, but also come off relatively easy. It should, however, keep snow from clumping up in your grip zone for your ski session though, which is all you're trying to accomplish, really. Anyway, let me know if you have other questions!

[@replacement6386]

Hahaha I found your answer to my own question I just asked on another video! xD

[@JaredManninen]

I appreciate you taking the time to seek out the answer in my videos :)

[@garykuzminski7969]

Thanks, brother.

[@JaredManninen]

Glad I could be of service, Gary :)

[@gustfilm1989]

I have a question. What is a bronze brush. Is it made of metal? Wouldn't it be sufficient to use a nylon brush? BTW Thanks for your videos. They are helpful.

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Ale, Thanks for watching, and for the question :) Yeah, you could totally just use a white nylon brush if that's what you have. I just find that those brushes aren't nearly as aggressive as a bronze brush for cleaning out debris and wax. The bronze brush essentially just has bristles made of bronze. I believe I show one more up close in this "assembling a wax kit" video that I produced a few years ago (kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYXOkoqXepV2r9U). Again, thanks for tuning in. Let me know if you have any other questions.

[@user-nq9gz4xf7f]

i got less expensive fish scale skiis...the drag was bad ...very slow...i would like to convert them to wax skis...cant afford new ones...i used a clothes iron to melt them lower to lessen drag, i hate fish scales! but i guess i got low quality, i like your video, maybe proper waxing like paste wax would help, compared to hard green wax i use...up here the snow is usually colder, drier

[@JaredManninen]

Hey William, Glad you enjoyed my video. I appreciate the feedback :) But that really sucks about your skis dragging so much! A couple ideas that come to mind... First off, it sounds like cold and dry snow conditions are what you deal with more often, which is always a bit slow no matter what. Glide waxing the tips and tails (if you haven't already) of your skis definitely help. Also, I've known people to actually hot wax with glide wax the ends of the grip zone on scale-pattered skis (actually filling the terminal ends of the grip zone completely). Although, there are a number of scale-patterns that actually stick out from the base (positive) as opposed to simply having been removed from the base (negative). So, depending on what type of skis you have that option may or may not work. I would also consider taking a metal base scraping tool (like a Kuzmin) and carve out the scales at the ends of the grip zone (rather than melting them, but if you've already done that ... what's done is done). Lastly, like I mention in this video, I always apply a liquid/spray/rub-on wax to the entire scale pattern just because it gets neglecting yet is still required to glide over the snow during the glide phase. Anyway, hopefully some of those suggestions might be helpful. Let me know how it all goes!

[@LuxJoseph]

Thanks so much for being so concise and informative! I may have missed it but do you recommend a certain brand of glide wax or are they mostly all the same in terms of effectiveness?

[@JaredManninen]

Thank you, Jenna, for the kind words. Glad I could be of service :) For treating the scale patterns, any brand of easy-on glide wax (liquid or paste) seems to work just fine. Honestly, if all you had available was some spray-on cooking oil you could use that too. haha! Not necessarily a long-term solution, but it would help in a pinch :) When I hot wax my skis I don't directly apply the hot wax to the scale pattern, but when I brush the glide zones free of the excess glide wax I make sure to also brush the scales pattern. The residual wax on the brush seems to do wonders for keeping snow from sticking in the grip zone. Thanks again for watching, and your comment/question :)

[@michaeljonathan543]

super helpful! However, I am confused as to what to do with universal glide wax (Swix F4) as its my first time - do I apply it, let it dry and then go out and ride? Or do I have to scrape the wax off as you would after applying hot wax from a bar?

[@JaredManninen]

No scraping necessary with the F4. Just rub a thin layer of it on the ski bases and let it set/dry for a few minutes. Once the liquid dries, you can go out and ski. It's a very simple type of wax application in that respect. You could brush out the white residue that remains after the F4 dries if you really wanted to, but not necessary as it'll come off once you start skiing.

[@vanessad3412]

Jared, I might have missed it in this video. But do I apply the glide wax from the top to bottom of skis? Or just the scaly part of the skis?

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Vanessa, thanks for the question :) Don't hot wax the scales, but you can put some of the liquid glide wax on them. If you are using the liquid glide wax, then you can apply it to the entire base of the xc ski. A lot of times people don't do anything with the scales and they become really dry to the point where they become the area on which snow sticks and freezes too. So this specific video was intended to let people know that they should put some of that liquid or paste glide wax on the scales. Hope that clarifies things :)

[@markmeidenbauer6533]

👍Good tip..

[@JaredManninen]

Thanks, Mark! I appreciate it 🤗

[@williamtang5686]

Do we need to add wax on skin skis as well?

[@JaredManninen]

Hey William, thanks for the question! But just use glide wax on the tips and tails. Definitely don't put any wax on the actual skins. There are cleaners and products specifically to maintain the skins, though. When waxing skin based xc skis I usually put some blue painters tape lightly across the skins so as not to drip any hot wax on them. Hope that helps. Let me know if you have other questions!

[@philippatrick544]

Is it possible to redefine the scale pattern if it is a bit worn out?

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Philip, Thanks for the question! I assume you're talking about the scales in the grip zone of your skis not looking quite like scales anymore, like they've been ground down and look generally beat up. If that's the case, I don't know how much effort I'd put into making them look like scales again. You could probably take a box cutter or exacto-type of a knife and clean up the area (get rid of the fuzzy bits, etc). But I don't know that you'd gain a whole lot of benefit from this. I would, however, clear any obviously large pieces hanging off so that you don't experience excessive drag from those pieces. But if the damage to your scale pattern is uniform and affecting the whole grip zone I probably wouldn't worry about it. The reason I say this is because any roughness in the grip zone will act as roughness for a grip zone. Kinda like the older generations of "zero" skis where they had a rough textured surface for a grip zone, and then you would take sandpaper to that surface to scuff it up based on snow conditions. More scuffing for a more aggressive grip zone, and less scuffing for a milder grip zone. If your scales are worn down, there's still "scuff" with which to use as a grip zone although it may not be nearly as aggressive as the original scale pattern. But it still should enable you to get grip. I haven't heard of people trying to restore their scale patterned grip zones, so I'm just not that familiar with it. And, I can't help but think that it's generally not done (as a result of no one really asking/talking about it). On the other hand, I have heard of people eliminating/cutting/smoothing the scales at the leading edge of the grip zone to increase glide. But this sounds exactly opposite of what you're describing. Anyway, let me know if any of that helps. I'd be curious to know more about your situation. Thanks again for tuning in :)

[@philippatrick544]

@@JaredManninen thank you for your reply. The pattern in the kick zone or mid part of the ski is uniformly worn. I find it has reduced kick. Another factor effecting my classic skiiis they are 6 yrs old. In those 6 years I went from 190 lbs to 228 lbs. I am think about purchasing Atomic Savor xc possibilities 193 cm stiff wax less skiis that are rated for 165 to 220+ lbs and taking the old ones to a swap

[@JaredManninen]

@@philippatrick544 That's funny that you mention the Atomic Savor XC because we (xc ski resort at which I work) just have begun to swap out all of our older rental xc skis to primarily those Atomics. I, literally, spent the past two days unwrapping them and racking them on our rack system. They're nice skis! That said, just keep in mind that it may take a little more work to engage the grip zone on those stiffer newer skis since they're going to be rated for a heavier person than your previous skis. I think you'll definitely like them but, again, by going with a ski designed with that higher weight range you may experience an adjustment period to the new camber. Let me know how it goes with them!

[@lindaloo206]

Closed Captions would be nice.

[@JaredManninen]

Hey Bobbie Smith, thanks for reaching out. I didn't even realize I could put CCs on my videos! I thought it was going to be a long process, but KZbin seems to make it relatively painless. So, this one is done. I'm not familiar with what good CCs should look like. So, if you notice that I'm doing something that doesn't look correct or it decreases the viewing experience, let me know!