Ups & Downs From Star Trek: Discovery 5.5 - Mirrors

The one where Rhys points at people.
L'ak's Species Revealed In This Week's Star Trek: Discovery Episode 'Mirrors': whatculture.com/tv/laks-speci...
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[@mattlavenz4099]

Missed opportunity: Lak's uncle is Jeffrey Combs.

[@BrainComm487]

They didn't kill him, so it's possible. But I'm hoping Combs shows up as a Progenitor.

[@brianbochette3144]

So all humanoid life is actually based on Jeffery Combs… that would explain a lot!

[@Headjack6969]

I thought Lak was played be Jeffery Combs? LOL

[@HellOnWheel]

When Rayner says, "why hexagonal?" And Stamets responds, "doesn't matter, it will work." Rayner made a "fair enough" face, since he's the one who doesn't need to know how the cake is boiled.

[@jasonjulian1]

Because hexagons are the bestagons.

[@andrewharris8479]

Rhys LOVES the 23rd C Conny and Detmer and Owosukun get to drive it back? Doesn't seem fair

[@thomashong2938]

@@hawkstringfellow Detmer and Owosekun.

[@thomashong2938]

Rhys got to be on Pike’s Enterprise when he and the rest of the Disco crew were evacuated from their ship in preparation for its planned destruction in order to keep the Sphere Data away from Control in season 2. Burnham needed Rhys to stay at tactical in case Discovery ran into trouble.

[@coolraul07]

Serves him right for actually appearing on the episode. /s

[@samwalker8893]

Both Raynor and Rhys admitting love and adoring it.. neither got on.. sounds fair

[@carolbriscoe9337]

I keep thinking these actors weren't available to film after the actors strike. This was a way to write the characters out of the show

[@TatoAthority]

Something that totally deserves a mention: When Culber talks to Tilly about having died and come back to life, you can hear just a hint of the Wrath of Khan score.

[@jasonjulian1]

I heard that too.

[@StephenLeGresley]

I wish they had paid off Book's question about what the Mirror Universe Spock was like. Because I think when Burnham says that he was probably just as vicious as the others it would've been nice at the end of the episode for her to look into the ship's records and see that the Mirror Spock actually tried to bring peace and help people. I think that would've been a really touching scene similar to the one in Unification III.

[@jacklai633]

Sean mentioned the High Channcloer was Mirror Spock and got killed for reforming. I wonder how Sean knew that?

[@bjorn00000]

@@jacklai633 It was from the first DS9 mirror episode. Intendant Kira referenced how the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance took over, in part because Spock disarmed the Empire during peace talks.

[@pookhahare]

​@bjorn00000 see I think this is why they didn't do what Sean wanted. It was already told what happened to Spock in that DS9 episode.

[@bjorn00000]

@@pookhahare I think it would have been hard as they would have had to use archival footage of Leonard Nimoy, since it likely took until the time of the TOS movies for mirror-Spock to become chancellor. What also complicates things was the stardate on the plaque, as the escape of the ISS Enterprise happened only about a decade prior to the events of "Crossover". While it explains why Kovich knew the Terran Empire fell, it also makes it very unclear whether the Empire a generation before "Crossover", or just a decade.

[@jasonwalker9471]

@@bjorn00000 We get the feeling from DS9 that the Terran Empire didn't collapse recently (there are human slaves who have lived at least most of their whole 30-40 year lives as slaves), but it didn't happen so long ago that the shaky alliance built specifically to combat the Empire had fallen apart yet, forgotten the brutality of the Empire, or gone on to conquer other nearby civilizations like the Romulans. My guess is that the Empire was more or less defeated about 50 years before Crossover, but that some distant parts of it weren't fully conquered for another 10 or 20 years. A few left over individual ships of the Empire might even still be around, hiding in the darkness even at the time of Crossover. This more or less lines up with the timeline seen in Discovery, but it also provides a reason for the unstable Alliance to still be around when Crossover happens. Without an external threat to focus on, it wouldn't last for long. And indeed it doesn't, as we see later in DS9.

[@qui6873]

"Hit it?" "Nah, that don't feel right. Let's just fly?" Loved it! Favorite joke!

[@philf_]

Loved that reference to Captain Pike.

[@good_teanice_house6789]

I will not “engage” in this joke….lol

[@Danrarbc]

@@good_teanice_house6789 Make it so.

[@Bigfilmguy]

I said to my wife, "Oh god, please don't Shaw him, now we're starting to like him." I still lament the loss of Shaw, I don;t need to add Raynor as well!

[@lightningwingdragon973]

Shaw...Shaw...who's Shaw again?

[@kacektv9405]

@@lightningwingdragon973 Hot dickhead captain from Picard season 3

[@BobSperber]

@@lightningwingdragon973Ouch!!!

[@DarkPhilosopherOG]

Sadly, it will probably happen in the exact same time and conditions as in ST: Picard.

[@thomashong2938]

@@DarkPhilosopherOG Wrong. Callum Keith Rennie thought when he took on the role that it would be for multiple seasons and he was getting ready to do season 6 when he found out that the show had been cancelled.

[@charlesjohnson7458]

The 'Citris Mash' scene was my favorite of this episode.

[@ArtistryBranson]

Seán, ya missed a big Easter Egg, pal. The closing scene shows Linus playing the piano. That's a Peanuts reference, innit? Great breakdown, man. Good on ya, as always!

[@The_Str4nger]

Schroeder played the piano, not Linus

[@ArtistryBranson]

@@The_Str4nger thank you! I appreciate the correction.

[@carolbriscoe9337]

Wow! Missed that

[@chriswilk7134]

Prediction: The I.S.S. Enterprise becomes the training vessel for the Starfleet Academy show.

[@kadosho02]

Ooh that is an excellent suggestion

[@TK000Master]

right because you can learn so much from a 23 rd Century ship from the mirror universe in in the 33. Century

[@Majere613]

@@TK000Master There's a parallel with how real-world militaries train people there, though. Pilots learn in a glider, then an old, cheap and reliable jet before they're let anywhere near a modern combat aircraft. Most navies also use older ships in drydock to teach cadets, in fact I think the Royal Navy still trains some on sailing ships or at least used to. There's something to be said for teaching the basics on ships with less advanced tech to fall back on/ mess up.

[@TK000Master]

@@Majere613 i agree but not on a 1000 years old ship. Even if brand new. The tech on it is just way to old that it makes sense. At least to me.

[@Doctors_TARDIS]

@@TK000Master *points to discovery's refit*

[@Sk8rToon]

L’ok’s little smile was adorable!! And the fact it shone through all the makeup & prosthetics. 🧑🏻‍🍳💋

[@intrinsical]

I'm a Singaporean. We're famous for our Hainanese Chicken Rice, which is delicately boiled chicken with rice cooked in chicken stock. Back when I was in college, I had an African flat mate. One day, she saw me making Hainanese Chicken Rice in the kitchen and she just exclaimed in her distinctly Afrikan accent, "What are you doing?! Are you BOILING chicken?" She shuddered in horror and quickly left the kitchen.

[@DoctorMysterio15]

Don't disregard it before trying it. It's basic knowledge for any respectable foodie.

[@digitalrex5]

That sounds delicious 😊

[@Esperi74]

Don't knock it until you've tried it.

[@DoctorMysterio15]

@@Esperi74 😉👌

[@jacklai633]

I am from Taiwan and I LOVE Hainanese Chicken Rice! 🖖🖖🖖 Singapore also has a cable channel having licensed from Paramount to air Discovery and Strange New Worlds. Unfortunately Taiwan still has no Paramount+ nor any other platforms/cable channnels for Discovery nor Strange New Worlds 😥😥😥

[@TamekoPatten172]

This is why I don't watch trailers and sneak peeks; I totally geeked out at the ISS Enterprise!

[@jacklai633]

I watched all trailers and sneak peeks and still geeked out, because all the ISS Enterprise previous was nothing but just theories. It's great to see the theory is true! 🖖🖖🖖

[@user-be7tc2bd6e]

Have you watched the Star Trek: Continues episode of the mirror universe where they did a continuation of TOS episode-Mirror-Mirror ???

[@jacklai633]

Sean, I am from Taiwan and a long time fan of Trek Culture. I always go to watch Ups and Downs after each Trek episode. Thank you so much for all of you and Trek Culture team! There is one thing I would like to mention: They change the opening credit each week to show new pieces of the clue added to the circle. Very nice little detail! Kudos to the Star Trek Discovery production team 🖖🖖🖖

[@Cdr2002]

21:14 I would argue that the ISS Enterprise becoming a rescue ship that carried hopeful people looking for something better is something being done with it. It is proof that Mirror Spock’s revolution had an effect and helped people, even if the Alliance came and ruined it all, and it fulfills Mirror Saru’s potential to rise above

[@dramonmaster222]

Isn't the Captain going on dangerous missions a Star Trek tradition at this point? They do it every series.

[@bemasaberwyn55]

"Starfleet code section 12 paragraph 4....."

[@jacklai633]

Not in TNG. Riker goes to Away Team mission and Picard stays on the ship

[@MrMann0123]

Until the films

[@TheDarkPorkins]

@@jacklai633 As it should be. I dont recall Janeway inserting herself into every away mission either.

[@Ulriquinho]

Up to TNG, yes. TNG and after, no. As I said elsewhere, because discovery’s crew is from the TOS era, they are doing things the old fashioned way.

[@Majere613]

An extra up for me was the way Raynor is becoming the Jack O'Neal of Discovery. It made me grin when the science team were getting deep into the nuts and bolts of the technobabble and he was just saying 'I don't care, just figure it out and tell me what to do'. TNG in particular sometimes had this weird habit of every single officer seeming to know huge amounts of super-advanced science that had nothing to do with their actual job, so it's refreshing to have a more straightforward character in there.

[@Dave619.]

It’s Jack O’Neill. ✌️ 2 Ls!!! 😄😄

[@weepingscorpion8739]

@@Dave619. Dang it... you beat me to it... just a shame there isn't an emoji with 3 raised fingers. :)

[@samwalker8893]

The character knowledge was meant to show the development between “crew” who had only one specialism and “academy officers” whose education is equated to the equivalent of three of todays PhDs. That is how the characters, understanding and background is driven specifically. It is referenced in one of the centre seat episodes discussing the differences in Enterprise and TNG. in ent there is a scientist, engineer but by the time they realised and developed space travel they found the engineer need3d to understand complex physics, the medical doctor needed to understand material chemistry etc.. that and command crew were pulled from ranked backgrounds and not command crew as Archer was trained but specifically Archeology (Picard)😅, or BioScience (Janeway) and Weapon Physics (Sisko) they all had completed multiple PhD level studies in multiple subjects so a bridge crew of five officers could, in theory have 15 different doctorates between them in the latter franchises.. hence how these conversations and solutions work.. when Wesley is pushed back in the academy following the shuttle accident he specifically refers adding a fourth subject matter to his resume so its clear somehow that they have streamlined education in these complexities to a year per doctorate at Academy level Jack Crusher refers to being a formal medical doctor several times from an off world institution, despite no academy attendance yet, and no historical formal education after his time in England so it is clearly more streamlined, specific and relevant then what we do today.

[@GSBarlev]

I've been likening him to Michael Garibaldi, but yeah-O'Neill is definitely a better fit.

[@jasonwalker9471]

@@samwalker8893 I read through some Optometry texts a while back. I remember thinking at the time that you could compress all the actually useful knowledge in them into a 3 month course that any intelligent person should be able to follow. Instead Optometry needs a "gatekeeper" undergrad degree (which serves little purpose except to weed out candidates), and then 4 years on top of that of Optometry school. 8 years of very expensive schooling at for profit schools for something that could consist of 3 months of schooling and a four year on-the-job apprenticeship. Our higher education system is absurd. Not because you don't learn anything even in the most "useless" undergrad degree (a good student can learn a lot in any system), but because it's technically suppose to be focused on getting people jobs, but it does it in the most round-about back-asswards way possible. If you intended to train people on specific jobs, most jobs would only need a few months of actual school followed by a long tiered apprenticeship. If you were going to teach people to be better people, or teach them to have a lifelong desire to learn new things on their own - which is the justification I normally hear for the existence of our current system... a four year undergrad degree is an extremely poor and slow way to do that. Very 19th century. Very outdated.

[@BobSperber]

Down (in case you don’t mention it): Stamets ID-ing the ISS Enterprise my site without any possibility of actually seeing it in the clouds.

[@FreihEitner]

My thoughts exactly. I was thinking how did he possibly know it was the ISS, but yeah in the blazing light coming from behind it, how did he possibly know it was the Enterprise.

[@PhillBogart]

Yeah, he really should have said, "Is that a Constitution Class?" while glancing over at Rhys.

[@Elvisbackpack]

You say they don't do anything with the Enterprise, but I disagree. In Enterprise and then discussed in Discovery, we have a Prime universe ship, the Defiant, being turned into a Mirror universe superweapon, the epitome of what the Terran Empire was all about. Now, we have the Enterprise, a Mirror universe ship, has been brought to the Prime universe to do what the Federation was all about, better themselves and become the solution rather than the problem. It's a mirror, if you think about it. The ISS Enterprise has become a mirror to the USS Defiant. Two ships removed from their universe, becoming exactly what their new universe is supposed to be.

[@Ancient_Sensei]

/\ /\ /\ /\ /\ this. 👍🖖

[@Ithekro]

Law of Equivalent Exchanges? We have not seen or I believe heard about the current Federation starship to have the name "Enterprise". Perhaps the ISS Enterprise gets a similar refit as USS Discovery, and gains a Letter and the "USS Enterprise" designation. Assuming they don't just put her in the museum (next to the Enterprise-D?)

[@jacklai633]

I hope the Starfleet Museum we saw from Star Trek Picard does survive the Burn!

[@BazT47]

@@jacklai633 should do. The warp engines weren't in use

[@samwalker8893]

@@jacklai633exactly that… i expect to see it there next to the ENTIRE rebuilt or resalvaged enterprise line up from 1701 through to 1701-M or whatever they are on…. The fact they were very specific that ONLY engines in use blew.. and that they were creating the museum in cgi for another series would help spread development costs with both features wanting to use it.. i think it further cements picards need for the name drop earlier in the game. The final clue? In picards ready room on the D

[@Enigmanaut]

I have 4 super nitpicky Downs for the episode, and 1 nitpicky down for Seán. First the episode ones: 1.) They have Asha asking "What is that?" in regards to a wormhole. Why on Bajor's fourth moon would you give that line to a Bajoran? Why not give it to Gallo? Presuably Gallo doesn't come from a world where a wormhole has massive historical, cultural, and religious significance like Asha does. That just struck me as a bizzare choice. 2.) Rhys saying that they will replace a photon torpedo's payload with antimatter. A photon torpedo's payload IS antimatter. It's a matter/antimatter warhead. Again, this makes no sense. 3.) Stamets asks "Is that the ISS Enterprise?!" when it is far enough away that he should only be able to see that it's a Constitution Class. Bit of a jump, Paul. 4.) If Dr Cho went back to the ISS Enterprise to hide the clue and wound up living there a bit, then it really is staggeringly unlikely she wouldn't have brought other items made in the Prime Universe with her, just on the basis of convenience. Ship, fuel, air, food... all more likely locally sourced than not. Ok, now my Down for Seán: You said that the fact that they picked up 3 signatures in Sickbay: Moll, L'ak and the clue indicated that the clue is organic. It indicated no such thing. All matter from the Prime Universe, organic or inorganic, should have that specific quantum resonance that differentiates it from the matter of the Mirror Universe vessel they were in. But, your Down gets erased for calling that Sickbay feature "M'Benga's Murder Wall."

[@pookhahare]

The Bajoran not knowing more about wormholes could be her family in past migrated away from Bjor. So you hear about but never seen it.

[@kleb3510]

Thank you for mentioning about the photon torpedo! It bothered me soo much and sad to not see it mentioned in the torpedo. Also I'm sad for the quantum torpedo, photon torpedoes were being phased out as of tng film time but new shows seem to have forgotten them (similar shame warp drive not slipstream in far future, despite its mention).

[@kleb3510]

... Also, not on video, down for me: Mol and l'ak escape on a warp capable old shuttle thing from enterprise because plot needs them too. 1- if that was there escape on that from wormhole rather than try with whole ship! 2- chase them! Discovery must be orders of magnitude faster and with better sensors no way they should be able to escape

[@SuprSBG]

@@kleb3510my guess is the warp pod isn’t designed to work in… not warp, and they had just used a lot of energy rescuing the Enterprise

[@jasonwalker9471]

The "lived in" look of the Enterprise wasn't from Doctor Cho, it was from the refugees that had fled the ship through the aperture. Presumably they left all that stuff behind because it wouldn't fit in the escape pods and shuttles. Sucks for the little kid who lost their gorn stuffy:(.

[@pamcarmin6106]

I can't believe you missed the Goran toy. At least I think the stuffed toy was suppose to represent a Goran from a Mirror Darkly.

[@sean.ferrick]

I did wonder about that one - it gave me Chameleon vibes!

[@catherinewood948]

Morn was bald because he kept liquid latinum in one of his stomachs, which caused his hair to fall out. ("Who Mourns For Morn?")

[@samwalker8893]

Yes yes yes…. So many missed this.. many missed mourn .. he has been spotted in several “starfleet bars” since… Picard, LD and SNW have all shown a mourn at a bar

[@jasonwalker9471]

@@samwalker8893 I suppose it's possible that many Lurians have some equivalent to male pattern baldness. We just happen not to have seen any with a magnificent head of hair. But my guess is that rather than having missed the fact that Morn's species had hair, the Discovery makeup artists probably tried some wigs on the actors and couldn't make anything work that didn't look absolutely ridiculous. Seriously, think about Morn in a massive enough wig to make his hair as "magnificent" as Quark implied. It's weird lol!

[@jamesfoster9613]

Sean my friend, i dont usually agree with your downs but I 100% agree that not having an Ethan Peck cameo or even just a Burnham realizing that even Mirror Spock was trying to reform the Terrans is a BIG missed opportunity. I even sighed as the eoiaode ended with even a Zora pipe up of "look what I found."

[@thomashong2938]

The assassinated Terran reformer was an alternate version of Emperor Georgiou.

[@jamesfoster9613]

@@thomashong2938 no it was Spock. That's clear in the context of the episode and the TOS episode and what was said about mirror Spock in DS9: he tried to reform the empire and was assassinated, and (per this episode of DSC) his followers fled on the ISS Enterprise to the prime universe.

[@thomashong2938]

@@jamesfoster9613 Yeah, I didn’t read the plaque when I posted earlier.

[@lcflngn]

100% confused about the timelines. Aren’t they way past the Spock Terran era in this one? So why would a cameo make sense? Happy to be corrected by those smarter than I am :) Oh, a cameo from the past?? I think I get that then. So yes, missed opportunity. Too bad she had no other way of knowing what her Terran brother had done. A down makes sense then.

[@jamesfoster9613]

​@@lcflngnyeah a video recording. Maybe part of the speech for reform or some such.

[@DrakeAurum]

You said Lak didn't kill any of those three Breen, but I'm pretty sure he killed two of them - nailed the guards right in the chest. It's only with the Primarch that he goes for a non-lethal shoulder shot, because he was Lak's mentor.

[@Donnagata1409]

I rhought so too, but in a second watching he shoots all of them in the shoulder. Not aiming to kill.

[@Eirewolf]

Agree with you completely that it was an Up (and damn well time) that we saw the crew working together to solve a problem. I was starting to wonder why they had so many people on this ship when only 3 or 4 of them actually worked on problems. Surely the 32nd Century would automate the routine, non-problem solving jobs.

[@digitalrex5]

Using the ISS enterprise makes sense though… it was Mirror Spock that began the reform process in the empire so it stands to reason that his ship would be the one that would mutiny after his death and flee the empire with refugees. It likely could not have been any other ship.

[@jackdavinci]

I'm glad we got to see a reason for the Breen helmets though I don't quite understand what the two different faces means exactly

[@alefunzouzzle4049]

No! We should have never seen a Breen 😡

[@MrFearDubh]

I enjoyed the Primark/Penneys joke. Well done!

[@sean.ferrick]

I thank you, I thank you

[@victorm56]

Thank you for Remembering Mr. Trimble

[@maryellencook9528]

Absolutely. John and Bjo are the best. I met them in March 1991 at the 25th year anniversary celebration of the SCA when it was held here in Texas. My condolences to Baroness Flavia OL (Bjo), and Lady Kathryn and Lady Lara.

[@Gorexpert]

I feel like most of these missed opportunities might not have been missed if they new it was the going to be the last season when the filmed it.

[@CRanapia]

I know it's a necessary deployment of narrative handwavium, but I'd have given the trellium down for the crew of the ISS Enterprise leaving behind a fully-fuelled warp capable pod just in case someone needed to make a speedy escape. Might have given it a pass if Burnham hadn't made such a point of saying in dialogue that all the life pods and shuttles were missing and the crew had abandoned ship... which is not how Terrans roll.

[@morebaileyskim]

The ship didn’t fit through the wormhole mcguffin till they mcguffined it just in time

[@richardvinsen2385]

@@morebaileyskimAnd then suddenly a shuttle magically appeared.

[@jeffs6090]

​@@richardvinsen2385That was my big down. All the shuttles were gone. How did they get into one to leave the area?

[@richardvinsen2385]

@@jeffs6090 At this point, why are they even talking about tracking them? They don’t have a single clue so is it really a race to beat them to the progenitor tech?

[@victorm56]

@@jeffs6090 They installed SB equipment into a torpedo shell.

[@CujoSR]

Thank you for commemorating John. I know his daughter well and he and Bjo are so important to us and our group.

[@CujoSR]

And an up from me for the Alien shirt on Alien Day.

[@noelc153]

I worked on DISCO and it was done while SNW was on hiatus after Season 2.

[@davidfoster8318]

I think my personal Trellium Down was Stamets line: "That's the ISS Enterprise..." umm, that's a bit of a reach considering he only saw the outline of the saucer section of an old constitution-class ship. How would he have immediately known that was what it was. I would have accepted "Is that the Enterprise?" or, better still, no line at all. Just seemed like an unnecessary exposition frying pan in the face... I think the other down is that the design didn't really need to be the SNW Enterprise. There's still the possibility that there'll be a slight re-design when Kirk takes command (I can forgive the appearance discrepancy between The Cage and Discovery Season 1's finale just as a visual change) but why would the ISS Enterprise be retrofitted to an earlier exterior design post-TOS. But, maybe I'm being picky.

[@user-mh9cf1gv7v]

There are so many possibilities for stories in the Discovery universe. I really hope we get to explore some of these in the future. I am grateful for everyone who has contributed to the current era of Star Trek

[@elliotlevy8610]

The 3 signatures in sick bay wasn't indicative of the clue being organic I'm fairly certain. Burnham states she's looking for things not originating from the Terran dimension.

[@augustjsb]

"That's a really cool design of a wormhole. I really dig that." I'm an ass man too, Sean. I'm an ass man, too.

[@jacklai633]

ROFLOL

[@CtrlOptDel]

They did basically Goatse their way out of it in the end...

[@coolraul07]

NP: "I'm an ass man" - entrance song for Billy Gunn in WWE

[@antoniao7439]

😂😅

[@QBCPerdition]

I have a down from this episode as well as the first episode, and it's really the same down. There are now two ships that have been heavily damaged and left derelict for a THOUSAND years...but they still have power? Sure, the lights are flickering, but life support is fully functional, stations work at a simple touch, really? As for this being the ISS Enterprise, specifically? Sure, a cameo of Nimoy or Peck in the goatee would have been nice. But I think this really deepens the lore of the Mirror Universe in a very big, but subtle way. It shows that Spock listened to Kirk, and tried to make a change. It didn't work out well, which we knew from DS9, but when people are trying to flee, Spock's ship is the one that helps them. Burnham says that Mirror Spock is probably just as blood thirsty as the rest of them, but we know that's not true, and this episode proves it.

[@michaellongstreet6681]

Agreed. Not only did the ship have power, but the force fields, holo-emitters, and tractor beam worked just fine, and clearly the life support and artificial gravity were still active. Seems odd to abandon a vessel when it was still space worthy.

[@kendrakirai]

It makes *sense* for it to be the ISS Enterprise. It was an old ship by the time they escaped, it was Spock's ship, who made the reforms that led to the eventual end of the Terran Empire, and it's bookends; The ISS Enterprise was the first we saw of the mirror universe, and now, the 32nd century, is the final. (Chronologically at least). Spock would have totally kept the Enterprise around and had/let it be used for refugees. Much easier to grab a ship that's set aside than try to hijack one that's in service.

[@robertheinrich2994]

there was a scene that I didn't get. wormhole opens, enterprise comes through: stamets immediately asked, if that is the ISS enterprise. how would you know to ask something this specific? sure, he recognizes the shape, but it could have any constitution class starship, there were more than just the enterprise. so how did he sense, that this is specifically the enterprise from the mirror universe?

[@coolraul07]

Hint: Discovery S02

[@robertheinrich2994]

@@coolraul07 there is a huge wormhole, that glows bright white. therefore he can only see the silhouette of the ship. no chance to read the text on the ship.

[@GSBarlev]

::hand waves:: *Tardigrade DNA*

[@robertheinrich2994]

@@GSBarlev does this tive him super vision?

[@GSBarlev]

@@robertheinrich2994 My comment was sarcastic, but I could see an explanation that he has superhuman powers of observation when it comes to trans-dimensional shenanigans.

[@tomgon3D]

In season 1 mirror Saru died at the hands of the imperial chef. So the Saru that's referenced here must've been the one that Georgiou saved after being sent back in time the guardian of forever. That means that this Enterprise is from a different mirror universe or the original mirror universe timeline has been altered or it was a different Kelpian after all or the production doesn't really care much about continuity. And yes, they could've done more with the Enterprise this episode but that doesn't mean they won't in the future. They wouldn't go through the trouble of retrieving the ship only to mothball it, never to be seen again. It's all but certain they will give it the Disco-A treatment and give it a 32c makeover. Plus, Kovic is gonna have a field day with this ship

[@johnmontgomery2321]

I was wondering if I had misremembered that. I like the suggestion that Georgio actually did go back though. The episode made it seem like it was some kind of test or something only she experienced meaning she wasn’t back.

[@AnthonyKellyYip]

Five eps in and I'm just now realising Ups & Downs is back? I've subscribed... I've hit that bell... But I've somehow still got catching up to do

[@JustMe99999]

This season is just so good. Too bad it's the final because they're really hitting their stride (shades of Enterprise).

[@JamesFuentes526]

Maybe it's that the producers are finally paying attention to the fans.

[@andrewmurphy5055]

"The Breen Penneys....". Well done on that one 👏 👏 👏

[@AlexandruVoda]

I think Moll and L'ak are resourceful, but not very smart. If they are hunted by the Breen and the Breen are in a struggle with the Federation, it is only logical to ask for asylum from the Federation. The federation would be delighted to learn more about the mysterious Breen.

[@pedroperos2157]

To me it makes perfect sense that it's the ISS Enterprise. That's where the first attempts to reform the Terran Empire would have begun, after Kirk's visit in the TOS era, and his interaction with Goatee Spock. It's not surprising then that Enterprise would fight against the 'counter revolution', nor that it would become a refugee ship.

[@JamesFuentes526]

I think it would have been awesome if it was the Enterprise-E and we finally found out what happened to it - Worf lost it in a wormhole!

[@Thecuriousincident1]

Yes! loved the Penneys joke.

[@kpeters5994]

Breen Helmet is explainable that upgrades over a few hundred years would come with streamline designed and miniaturization.

[@CRanapia]

Indeed - as assuming the Breen were as affected by the Burn as everyone else, it would make sense that more efficient armor design would be a thing. Or to really over-think it, fashions change... big chunky 24th century helmets and armour might just be embarrassingly old-fashioned 800 years later.

[@Animaniac0451]

It was the Enterprise because if any ISS ship was going to become a rebel/refugee ship to transport Terrans to our space, of course it was going to be the Enterprise

[@Cdr2002]

This

[@Eirewolf]

The wormhole reminded me of Troi's dreams in Night Terrors.

[@MrFearDubh]

It seemed particularly cruel for them to let Keyla Detmer and Joann Owosekun fly the ISS Enterprise back, but not Gen Rhys who repeatedly told of his LOVE for the Constitution Class ships. Come on. How could they? Just mean!

[@heathercroft3543]

RIGHT???

[@thewi2kbug]

Owo and Detmer are familiar with piloting the systems. Rhys could have likely been aboard, but not mentioned to monitor the engineering section.

[@MrFearDubh]

@@thewi2kbug Well, here's hoping that's the case. I guess we'll see next week if Rhys is still aboard Discovery.

[@thomashong2938]

Burnham needs Rhys by her side at tactical. Besides, he has already been on a Constitution class ship. In season 2, Rhys and the rest of the Disco crew were evacuated to Pike’s Enterprise in preparation for blowing up their ship to keep the Sphere Data away from Control.

[@coolraul07]

Hard to observe those curves from the inside.

[@DoctorMysterio15]

As for the breen overreacting, IDK because the dude (L'ak) is basically royalty, so he not only betrayed his whole race and culture, also his family by "mating with a lesser species" and at the same time with the person who has been messing with the dillithyum the breen have been buying. Thinking inside the tight bucket, that seem to be a big deal. Just saying, I'm really happy the breen are recieving all of this attention.

[@DeamonChocobo]

See all Lurian's being bald because Morn was bald is my same issue with the Wadi Chula game in Lower Decks being exactly the same as it was in DS9. Characters talk about when Morn had hair (which he allegedly lost because he swallowed a thousand bricks worth of latinum) and the challenges of the Chula game are clearly chosen by the dice roll.

[@DeamonChocobo]

@@OldManYellsAtClouds that's my bad I could have sworn he said he had to jump to win, but my point still stands about the rooms he runs through.

[@halloweendad]

I love how they still find a way to plug a Morn cameo into these episodes even though Morn has been dead for centuries.

[@Meepmeep189]

My Brother and I for the longest time theorized that the Breen were some sort of liquid lifeform given all the clues from DS9. We were so happy to be proven correct, even if they seem more gelatinous than liquid! It also goes a long way to explain the alliance between the Breen and the Dominion.

[@dairedarcy1130]

Head canon on the ISS Enterprise is that it would have been crewed with Pro-Reform officers by Spock, as his flagship. So, it would have been the most likely to have crew who knew about how nice it was on the flipside in the Prime Universe, and have the desire to get refugees there.

[@jaimebabb9968]

Linus playing jazz piano in the final scene definitely deserved an up.

[@meggibson-merola3097]

Sean, Raynor and Rhys couldn’t have shared a momentary acknowledgement of their appreciation for the Constitution class because they never actually talked about them. The scene where Raynor tells Rhys he loves the old Connies too was part of a time jump, so it was erased once time went back to normal. The only connection Rhys would have would be his 20 word interview with Raynor. So no meaningful glances required.

[@kingboy76]

Agree with the trellium down, but I'd go further - forget about whether it's the Enterprise or not, it didn't have to be the mirror universe anything. The progenitor coming from the mirror universe was just chucked in to justify a "mirror universe" episode when we didn't see any mirror universe characters and it just didn't matter. Could have been any prime universe ship and the whole plot would still have worked.

[@johncattley5919]

If they’d give us a scene with Ethan Peck, we’d have had to give up one of those flashbacks with Moll & L’ak.

[@scaredscorpion]

I think Lok did kill two of the breen, just not his uncle

[@DeronJ]

That was my thought as well. That is why Moll asked why L'ak didn't kill him, and L'ak answered that he had raided him.

[@asasaovento79]

I can’t believe I still haven’t figured out where the blues flask came from and what’s in it… Please help me figure this out because this end scene is still remaining so mysterious

[@barrybend7189]

One missed opportunity i would say is it's the Discovery/ Strange New Worlds connie. It would have been soo good for it to be the TOS or even canonize the Jeffrey's concept refit. Especially since Picard season 3 had a full set of it. You didn't need to redress the sets much to do it.

[@cpt.walker6273]

That's why I don't watch trailers. They spoil everything. NOT ME! I got to enjoy the big reveal.

[@lronBeagle]

5:02 “coming thick and fast” 😳

[@AIConstantine]

This I.S.S. Enterprise isn’t any I.S.S. Enterprise, it’s the one from the Terra Firma version of the mirror universe. This is from the universe that Carl/Guardian of Forever sent Georgiou to to prove her worth. It was fairly clearly stated in it.

[@brentgambrell]

It’s stated throughout the whole episode that it was a Terran starship. So, of course it’s the same one from the Terran episodes. lol

[@DoctorMysterio15]

Are you high or did an AI wrote that for you? Because that's utter nonsense.

[@HiR0SHi.the.D0G]

Yes, all the Breen stuff was awesome!

[@SamriBliss]

Mbenga’s murder wall 😅😂

[@JasonSetnyk]

If I were a writer, towards the end of the episode, after the ISS Enterprise escapes the anomaly, I would have had Stamets scan the ship. Captain, there is an unusual signal coming from the Enterprise transporter pattern buffer. There's a signal which they beam up. There is goatee Spock, whose first concern is about Scotty, who was in the other transporter buffer. His signal degraded, a mirror of what happened in the TNG episode Relics.

[@philly83]

I like the callback of rebel Saru but I would have to give a down for how would Burnham know about that? Georgiou left right away and didn't have time to tell her about it

[@thomashong2938]

🎯

[@GorillaCanon]

Interesting......... what I saw on P+ was simply "latinum and long walks on the beach."

[@Casual_Sadism]

Same here. Maybe the version Sean reviewed was a screener before the line was trimmed.

[@NotInTheFace111]

What I want to know is what plans Tilly and Dr. Culber were alluding to during the bar scene at the end. Did I miss something said in a previous episode?

[@brentgambrell]

It would’ve been cool if, instead of it being the enterprise, it was the shenzhou. But I understand why it was the Enterprise. What better way for Burnham to honor her brother Spock one last time than on the enterprise itself.

[@rinehardt6837]

Damn I'm happy as hell. First heard the word Breen Star Trek generations then finally got to see them on DS9 at last at last we get to see what the breen actually look like and it's cool as shit I thought the moment I saw L'ak in the opener what a cool creation that is. Pretty much everything else in this episode went by the wayside for me I was just totally over the moon about that review.

[@mcdaysalive6586]

What bugs me is that the ISS Enterprise is a pre-TOS era refit, which as we see in Mirror, Mirror, looks like Kirk's Enterprise not Pike's, and as we saw in Picard, that design is still cannon and hasn't been overwritten entirely by Strange New World's design. This could easily be overlooked if it wasn't specifically a ship we know we've seen before. Ofc the in-universe explanation could simply be this ISS Enterprise predates the one from Mirror Mirror, and they could have rebuilt/rebranded another Consitution class to bear the same name. This might also explain why there is no mention of Mirror Universe Spock in the crew records.

[@brandijoy1]

Great review. I didn’t agree with some of your downvotes but I understood why you did it. I too was hoping for at least a picture of Spock or something just a bit more. This was how I felt last episode when they jumping through time. I really wanted to see Lorca or Ash Tyler.

[@stephendid]

I really like the book version of the breen. That they are multiple species and they dress the same show equal.

[@TheTransitmtl]

The 3 hits they get in the scans are not "organic". Their "quantum signature" was from the prime universe. That is also why Burnham puts a little circuit in the pendant, so that Mal or L'ak could scan and detect that it has a different "quantum signature" from the rest of the ship.

[@jamesmadden6434]

I caught that too. Have to say I'm a little disappointed with Sean for that one.

[@GSBarlev]

Tbf the "clue" did turn out to be organic-not the puzzle piece, the vial of blue goo, so it was definitely ambiguous.

[@jamesmadden6434]

@@GSBarlev Just re-watched the end scene. "chemical analysis of the contents of the vial" was said; I never heard the word organic. Tbf an organic clue would be highly prone to degradation over time which could render it useless. Either way, it's nice to hear from another fan who pays attention. If I missed something, please let me know.

[@LiveLongandPodcast]

Showing that the Jelly man was infact Breen was a wonderful turn of the page. This is where Discovery gets to be strong. Enjoyed the fact they pulled out a Mirror Enterprise. Maybe they'll refurbish it.

[@Cdr2002]

24:22 i really like any Star Trek that rebukes “oh you’re Terran just write ya off” as you put it. It’s against the nature of the franchise to treat these people as inherently evil

[@TammyBeth1015]

If you're not going to directly reference Spock or someone in a way that requires you to use Enterprise, it would have been sorta fun to reference another ship we saw in TOS such as the Constellation

[@xXxHnTxXx9]

In ds9 it's mentioned by the mirror universe O'Brien that prime universe spoke and mirror universe Spok has switched the place. So that would mean that the Spok who died in mirror universe was real Burnham's brother

[@brunobillion3435]

Isn't it ironic that the most important artefact in the universe is left unattended on a table, without even a force field?

[@QuintusAntonious]

So this may explain how no one knew what a Breen looked like despite Kira and Dukat stealing suits. Maybe in their liquid state they literally just melt to goo when they die like changelings do and nothing was left to see.

[@gizmoochi]

Burnham to Book: Sorry I can't tell you about the future.....Burnham in the previous episode, "This is when, where, how and why you are going to die so you have to trust me and jump to maximum warp"

[@lovipoekimo176]

I kinda love hate the Breen armor redesign. But this episode was amazing

[@TheDarkPorkins]

The long snout should have remained...

[@tbrooke3016]

I love that we get a breen as the main bad guys. Sure they feature near the end of DS9 but we don't know a huge amount about them yet (in cannon). I'm glad we didn't get yet another Borg, Klingon or Romulan arc

[@QuetzalInvictus]

This season of Discovery has to have broken records with how many relationships are going on at once. Oddly enough the one Im routing for is Moll and L'ak, every other relationship feels frivolous, sufficating and distracting from the main plot line. Except Culber and Stamets, they're goals

[@ColwellMarcus]

One small down for me was in the beginning when they said "we re-calibrated the sensors to see the wormhole. and then it isn't even mentioned again. The shuttle can see it on sensors, the I.S.S. enterprise can see it on the inside... It was so difficult to detect that it became a plot point and then it was never mentioned again.

[@johnsieverssr8288]

I've missed your show...❤ Thanks, Sean 😊 Love, and I already miss "Discovery"❤

[@DaveB4529]

TOTALLY agree with the Owo & Detmer reference without screen time as the Enterprise sails away...I'm still pissed that Nilsson is gone...Sara Mitich is gorgeous...

[@gatetrek2004]

My 2 downs so far are 1: Why not send Rhys as well on the ISS Enterprise? That would have been another good use of his Love for 23 Connies. 2: WHERE ARE THE OG Bridge Crew? I feel like in 5 episodes we've not seen them much and yes, the throw away line of having Owo and Detmer taking the ISS Enterprise to HQ... but I feel like most of the OG's are fizzling out. I get that they did not know at this point it was the final season so trying to introduce new crew was maybe the idea, but knowing there are only 5 episodes to go...

[@paddy1414]

Took me a minute to cop the Penny's joke. Fair play Mr Ferrick. Fair play sir!

[@KatRobinsonArkansas]

Thank you for the tribute to John G. Trimble - he's where my fandom crosses, a founder of the Society for Creative Anachronism.

[@AzraelThanatos]

L'ok's appearance makes me think of the Nah'khul from STO

[@davidrohde2636]

Did the spacefleet museum survive the burn? Is the iss enterprise situated next-door to the uss enterprise A and D

[@foregonereality]

Stealth Penny's joke. I like it.

[@captainmagenta899]

Stamets's "Is that the ISS Enterprise" REALLY clanged for me. How could he tell from a silhouette emerging from the wormhole? That's the point where Rhys and Rayner should have shared a little Connie love. I'm guessing Rhys had used up his third tier dialogue credits by that point.

[@JaredlS10]

Down, Mal and Lok are able to escape via a warp pod. Early in the episode it was stated all of the escape pods had been launched plus why fly the whole ship out when you can use the smaller pod?

[@lasvista2tech]

when mol and the other one got away again I couldn't stop laughing, literally same repetitive exit as pokemon's team rocket