Ups & Downs From Star Trek: Lower Decks 4.10 - Old Friends, New Planets

[@Seal0626]

Missed one easter egg - the GD explosion looked exactly like a Kolvoord Starburst. Locarno finally got to perform one, all by himself.

[@Scuzzlebutt142]

Yes, I was just thinking that as I watched the shot of the Captains Yacht. Also, it has 6 "tines", for the 5 members of Nova Squad, and Mariner, the "junior" member.

[@Denflexi]

Alas, much like the last one, due to Locarno's hubris someone needlessly died to create it.

[@WLGnome]

Missed easter egg... romulan ship being sideway (the way the designer meant it to be filmed)

[@oldgrizzlygamer]

The explosion actually looked like the genesis explosion in the Wrath of Khan 1 hour 35 minutes and 14 seconds into the film.

[@jobervelasco8614]

​@@oldgrizzlygamercorrect. As soon as I saw that, it reminded me of the Enterprise warping away after Spock sacrificed himself to save the ship.

[@JTBear37]

Billups being protective of the Cerritos is akin to Scotty getting into a fight with the Klingons over "garbage scow"

[@VegetaLF7]

This. Never insult a ship in front of her engineers, *especially* the Chief Engineer. You're just asking for a beatdown if you do.

[@ronmicheals8329]

I thought the exact same thing.

[@barrybend7189]

Unless you're the chief engineer in Space Quest 5......... He will acknowledge the fact but beat you up out of principle.

[@FreihEitner]

The pay wall on the Ferengi bomb was utterly brilliant. So very much in line with established Ferengi culture as well as a quick bit of levity in the episode's explosive climax.

[@derianardor]

It also clarified how mariner was right compared to Nick's ego. He was capable but he refused to consider him ever being wrong

[@GSBarlev]

It was very cunning of them to put a paywall on the _deactivation_ mechanism and not the _arming_ mechanism. Because if you're arming a bomb, you won't be able to collect, but if you're trying to prevent it from blowing up, you'll pay whatever you have to save your hide.

[@christopheralthouse6378]

@@GSBarlevTHIS! 😅😂🤣

[@andrewmurray1550]

Genesis device not a Ferengi bomb.....

[@generalilbis]

​@andrewmurray1550 It's a Ferengi copy of a Genesis Device. Or it was a Starfleet/Federation model and the OS was replaced with a Ferengi one.

[@stntylr101]

"Captain Picard will be so proud of you" Of course this leads to the gut punch moment when Captain Picard tells Wesley that he is disappointed in him.

[@Brasswatchman]

Didja notice how Locarno took advantage of Wesley's daddy issues to manipulate him? Pretty slick work, really.

[@GSBarlev]

I just re-watched "The First Duty." Locarno only recruited Wesley because he'd served on the _D_ (retroactive "up" from me to when Casey recruited Boimler into the "Redshirts"). He was a gaslighter and an abusive manipulator and _did not deserve_ the rehabilitation afforded to Tom Paris, so I'm glad they ended up being two different characters.

[@Brasswatchman]

​@@GSBarlev It's enough to make me wonder if it was Robert Duncan McNeill who requested they make a new character for _Voyager_ that he could play differently. Maybe that's what that whole thing was really about.

[@generalilbis]

​@@BrasswatchmanLike with initial plans to have Ro Laren in Kira Nerys' place on DS9 till Michelle Forbes said no, they seemingly wanted to use Locarno for VOY but there was an apparently mistaken belief that the writer of "The First Duty" would be given royalties for every episode Nick Locarno would appear. That being an expensive proposition due to a character intended to be Voyager's helmsman, they created a similar character. Funny thing is that Locarno wasn't like Kzinti - an IP created external to Star Trek and lent to it by Larry Niven for animation only - but considered part of the Star Trek IP and free to use.

[@QBCPerdition]

​@generalilbis they actually go into this on the podcast. There was no question of royalties, Rick Berman was just concerned that Locarno was irredeemable and that fans would not like a redemption arc for him. They decided on a new character and were looking for a "Robert Duncan McNeill-type" to play Paris, when someone had the bright idea to just call Robbie. He auditioned and surprisingly fit the mold they were looking for.

[@KentuckyKaiju]

I love that their solution to the Trynar shield involved the Cerritos playing to its actual strength: towing a busted ship better than any other Federation vessel.

[@josephsheranda]

This is the second time the tractor capability of the California class has been seen on-screen, and I must say it is stunning. Those ships must be massively overpowered to accomplish such feats.

[@Blasted2Oblivion]

@@josephsheranda Reminds me of modern towing barges. They can drag around pretty much any ship regardless of how much more massive they are.

[@christopheralthouse6378]

“Lower Decks”…the true unsung heroes! 😍😁

[@Nomad77ca]

Reminded me of the 'rock throwing' incident in Picard.

[@penguinmaster7]

they're great for utility tasks, and being a space-tugboat is one of them

[@PassivesAbseits]

There are 2 ways to view Mariners mental relapse arc: Those guys, who struggle with mental health, call it a bold and realistic description and would give it an up. Those who never struggled just don't get it. God bless you, Sean, for not getting it, I hope you never will. But personally I still think it is amazing, how Lower Decks also tackles such heavy issues.

[@TheKrstff]

Look, we all know the real reason for the relapse arc is because the writer's didn't like the happy and put together Mariner of season 3. Everything else is just a way to explain the real world decision to have her regress.

[@Brasswatchman]

You may be correct in that.

[@Brasswatchman]

​@@TheKrstff You don't get it either. You likely will, though. Eventually.

[@Dracattack]

I think everyone forgets Boimler died this season. We specifically never see Mariner react to that of course she back slides after that.

[@Brasswatchman]

@@Dracattack I don't think that's the trigger, since she doesn't see it happen to him. It really does seem to me like it's just the rank above Sito's that sets her off.

[@PitFriend1]

Hang on. You didn’t mention in Cetacean Observations that there actually were seat belts in the ship Mariner took? She buckled in the Genesis Device. People often joke Starfleet hasn’t invented seatbelts but apparently they have, it’s just no one uses the things.

[@illexsquid]

I also wanted him to acknowledge at some point that she kept talking to it and calling it "G.D."

[@powerist209]

Drama purpose, I guess. Like it’s better to see people stumbling around after each hits or sucked out into space in hullbreach. Seems that Gundam seems to be aware of this (like ship bridge crews have seat belts and space suits during battle).

[@barrybend7189]

Or that Nova Fleet is a mirror to Captain Tom Paris' ( he took a voluntary demotion) Delta Flight from Star Trek Online.

[@BenDaresAll]

I screamed when Boimler was the acting captain. I also cried a little at Tendi's good bye. Gimme a comforting hug?

[@Enterprise1701J]

🤗

[@Vipre-]

And T'Lyn sure looked good in the First Officer's chair.

[@BenDaresAll]

@@Enterprise1701J glee! :)

[@christopheralthouse6378]

IKR! The whole time, I’m thinking “Mariner would be SOOOOO proud right now!” 😍👍🏻😁 And, of course…hellllzzz yeah she is! 😅😁

[@Brasswatchman]

Poor Rutherford, though! Dude looks like all the joy's been torn out of his life.

[@DarthTella]

The animators deserve a bonus for this season. The animation was so polished!

[@marhawkman303]

Also, Sean missed this apparently, but the Orion ship is a TAS-style Orion ship! It's a near copy of the one from Pirates of Orion!

[@Sesadre]

Just a fun note: in the end when the Orion ship Tendi was on goes to warp, and we see the pretty colors, everything RED-shifts instead of the BLUE-shift that we saw when looking forward. This is just such an amazing detail that I absolutely love. We're also able to clearly see the 1c flash from behind as well, very nice.

[@auricstorm]

What do you reckon, has she gone evil? I think that face is a "bring it on" rather than "finally I can drop my fake happy disguise"

[@LordInsane100]

@@auricstorm I personally suspect it's her _adopting_ a fake different-from-normal-happy disguise. Basically, she's getting herself into the role of the Mistress of the Winter Constellation, which isn't who she is but is who she needs to be right now.

[@StuartQuinn]

​@@LordInsane100I think that's 100% correct.

[@MsMoonfan4ever]

I love that Mariner's plan after activating Little Genesis is basically the same thing Holo-Mariner did during the first Vendicta adventure, and now she gets to be that idolized version of herself standing against the person that insists Starfleet is only the worst of what's been seen, AND she gets to live to tell the tale about it

[@wendyheatherwood]

She also got to recreate part of her Cardassian prison break scenario by single-handedly stealing back a captured Starfleet ship. I guess that programme was good practice.

[@ronmicheals8329]

Ohhhh, right

[@DoctorSquirtle]

T'Lyn's response when ordered back by StarFleet was "Cerritos Strong." That's essentially the same as Spock's at the end of Star Trek VI when StarFleet ordered the Enterprise back for decommissioning, "I believe my response would be go to Hell if I were human." T'Lyn was amazing this season.

[@calcubite9298]

or Data's response of "to hell with our orders" from First Contact

[@josephsheranda]

@@calcubite9298 I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught both of those callbacks.

[@aqdrobert]

Janeway: You want us to return to Earth for debriefing? We are headed back to the DELTA QUADRANT! Voyager Strong! Tuvok: Fascinating.

[@theotakux5959]

I've loved T'Lyn, she's been the best part of the season for me up until this episode (She's still great, but this episode is great as a whole), and the line "Why would I say anything I do not mean?" is probably one of my favorite parts of the season. As much as she's integrating into the starfleet crew and the Lower Deckers, that line proves Mariner's point that she is, in fact, Vulcan as a motherfucker.

[@ffreed]

And the “Cerritos Strong” line was especially meaningful coming from her.

[@Solitaire001]

In a cast of great characters, I'm beginning to think that T'Lyn is my favorite character (but it's hard to tell because they are all so wonderful). One thing I hope happens is that T'Lyn comes to terms with her feelings of not being vulcan enough. Two workable options I can see are: (1) she meets with holographic Spock on the Holodeck to assist her since he's had the same concerns, or (2) Logic-y (who should be contained within Goodgey) appears to help T'Lyn with this because it's the logical thing to do.

[@ryanodriscoll]

No amount of podcasts will make me agree with last week's assessment. But this is this week. Captain Boimler was a highlight for me. His character growth has been great overall and that was the brilliant moment that showed his growth.

[@GSBarlev]

Jessie Gender's review had me come around about Sito, and the flashback put it all together, where that's the down I'm erasing. Sito was Mariner's _first_ loss, and had she been her last, I don't think it would have justified her behavior. But that was just the first drop of what would be a hurricane of death during the Dominion War.

[@tanman99]

Agreed. Last week’s Ups and Downs were just abhorrent. At least they didn’t 💩all over the episode this week.

[@Josh_Beardy]

​@@GSBarlev I just google them. Can you tell me or link the specific episode of theirs that you are referencing. That YT channel is new to me.

[@GSBarlev]

@@Josh_Beardy Jessie Gender After Dark. Review of Star Trek Lower Decks 4.09

[@Josh_Beardy]

Thank you!@@GSBarlev

[@scoobiesnatches]

The cat and mouse scene between Mariner and Locarno’s fleet reminded me of that one ice ring scene in Titan AE.

[@tyrant-den884]

Appropriate considering

[@malacorath]

There are some straight up copied shots of those scenes.

[@gallifreyja]

I came here to comment about that, loved that nod.

[@Mark_o_Helm]

The Titan also formed a new planet. Bob.😁

[@hfar_in_the_sky]

Honestly, I was NOT expecting a Titan AE reference in the finale of this season and it was a ton of fun!

[@SpaceyO2]

Shax's face when Tendi asks for Barter by Combat...

[@Brasswatchman]

25:40 You've just got to feel for Rutherford in this situation. Platonic or not, he looks like he's just had his heart ripped out. Poor guy.

[@tanman99]

OMG and that last look he gives after putting on a brave face for his friends and then slows down just a half a step so he can express his true feelings.

[@NFreund]

Yeah, i don't think it was platonic - they both though it was, but there where so many hints that it isn't...

[@Kingkent1207]

My favorite thing in this episode is that the lower deckers are put in charge of the Cerritos, while all of the senior staff go on the away mission to rescue Mariner. It is a perfect counter argument to Locarno’s philosophy. Locarno’s philosophical point is that lower deckers are not valued, and their lives are recklessly spent for pointless reasons while senior officers survive and take all the glory. Prior to this episode I would have said that he is not wrong, at least in Starfleet where redshirts feel like an expendable commodity. But Captain Freeman demonstrates simultaneously that she trusts the lower deckers to give them complete control of her ship, and that all of the senior staff are willing to risk their lives to save one of their own. It shows that, while they still exist within a ranked hierarchy, all of their lives are equally valuable and the competency of everyone on the crew is recognised and respected.

[@ronmicheals8329]

Yes

[@keit99]

I didn't make that connection, but it makes so much sense.

[@LinguaPhiliax]

The fact you got yourself a Mark Twain cosplay just for that bit. YOU, my friend, deserve an up.

[@Brasswatchman]

That's dedication to the bit, that is.

[@MrDionysus23]

He’s had that outfit since the first Twain episode of LD.

[@LinguaPhiliax]

He deserves a latinum up then!

[@michaelpapp5518]

5:47 wish it were Majel’s voice. “Previously, on Star Trek…and now the conclusion.”

[@heatherstarling1653]

I do declare that Twaining should become an official form of diplomacy.

[@Janoha17]

Unfortunately, it only works for inter-crew diplomacy.

[@Enterprise1701J]

Why does it even work? 😂

[@heatherstarling1653]

@@Enterprise1701J probably because the participants are basking in the absurdity of it, thus bridging an alliance 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@Enterprise1701J]

@@heatherstarling1653 I was just quoting Captain Freeman 🤣

[@heatherstarling1653]

@@Enterprise1701J 😆😆😆

[@zacharyvalko7699]

Tendi's little smirk at the end just reinforces something I've thought since the moment it happened: she threw the fight against her sister, and will be taking over her family's crime empire...hopefully to make a change on Orion. I'm excited for season 5!

[@catherineelmore2004]

I could *totally* see that. She wanted to boost her sister’s confidence. It worked. It worked *too well* . And now, it is the *original* Daughter Prime of the Tendi crime family’s job to teach her sister some hard earned humility! (Like… had she just not given her the ship, I think she could have, eventually, come to see the politically difficult situation her sister was in being asked that as someone who just took the position she’s in. Not immediately but eventually the Star Fleet non interference with internal politics policy would have come up and she would have said ok, I don’t like it but I get it. But *giving them a ship but having it be busted as some form of maliciously compliant gotcha? When the friend she’s trying to rescue is someone that D’erica knows- who helped when they all thought she’d been kidnapped? Oh yeah, D’vana’s here to kick ass and eat jumja sticks and she’s all out of jumja sticks!

[@Wild-Dad]

I had those exact thoughts and added that to this comment stream as well. I get the impression that we actually haven’t seen the real Tendi all this time.

[@aniyn]

I think Tendi is on an actual mission. The "You got this" at the end seems too specific, and when Freeman was talking to star fleet command they cut away after the admiral commented about wanting to talk about her lieutenant, but didn't actually specify WHICH lieutenant.

[@Oddlogical]

I literally pointed at the screen and yelled, "Holy s***, that's a Steamrunner-class!!!" Loved it! Great episode, great season!

[@Tarv1]

I was "Oh f**K yeah!! a Streamrunner!!!!"

[@jackmartin245]

Me too

[@Kreachie]

At first i was cheerul because we thought it was a steamrunner, but apparently it’s not, it’s called the “Sabrerunner-Class” … i know its not good is it? Basically it’s a Baby-Steamrunner at around 190 m long as opposed to its cousin’s 322 m length. My guess was she was designed during the Dominion War as a cheaper and smaller Steamrunner alternative that could do the same stuff but still be able to function like it’s older and bigger cousin. But following War’s end many wrecks of the SRs were scattered around, and Locarno apparently got ahold of one either at surplus or he stole it from either the battlefield or a Reserve fleet facility. My guess for the latter is Starfleet wanted to cut back on tactical ships and only kept the Newest and least battle-scarred ones in service, while the ones that suffered the most were decommissioned. My guess is Locarno retrieved her from a salvage yard, or stole her from the mothball fleet.

[@maestro4287]

The musical callback to James Horner's "Battle in the Mutara Nebula" from Wrath of Khan soundtrack was my favorite part.

[@boblundin394]

I love that score as much as the movie itself, and this episode leaned into it hard! Just a beautiful tribute

[@daenerystargaryen6302]

Two hours of my life that I will never get back. Just a broken viewscreen and endless boredom!

[@AlistairBrugsch]

The score 💯 makes WoK and the aural references to it in this episode were so on point. I loved every minute of it.

[@Kalhenwrath1]

The ending theme this week deserved an up of its own. Also, I want a side-series of Mistress of the Winter Constellation until Tendi comes back.

[@morebaileyskim]

I’m so glad I’m not the only one who paused to take the whole thing in. It was incredible music throughout and the end credits were no exception

[@AlistairBrugsch]

Me too. As soon as I heard a different theme I rode it to the end. So good.

[@Kalhenwrath1]

@@morebaileyskim ​@AlistairBrugsch Did you two also notice a distinct lack of Jennifer this season?

[@stephengsargent]

Another easter egg is that when Migleemo puffs up, I thought it was very reminiscent of when Phlox puffed up his face in Enterprise.

[@TeamD2012]

I love that they got Shannon Fill back; her last tv/film credit is from 1995. So glad she was able to reprise her role! 😀

[@Solitaire001]

That's the advantage of animation, as long as you can speak you can voice the character. Consider this: Kevin Conroy was the voice of Batman from 1992 to 2022 (when he passed away). Frank Welker was the voice of Fred Jones in "Scooby-Doo, Where Are You?" (1969) and he's still doing the voice to this day (he also took over the voice of Scooby-Doo in 2002).

[@williamtsutherland8240]

Many Ups to the Artists of this episode for having "Joshua Albert" absolutely look like the son of "Lt. Commander Albert" played by Ed Lauter (1938-2013) in "The First Duty". A wonderful way to honor him.

[@GSBarlev]

I noticed that too. Didn't know that we lost the actor who played Cmdr. Albert-his delivery (of his few lines) was so powerful. The tragedy of losing a son and thinking that he almost took out four other students with him. Came across in the actor's every facial expression and warble.

[@phaedo11]

Billups defending the Cerritos is 100% Kaylee from Firefly defending Serenity! That made me smile!

[@Brasswatchman]

Or Scotty picking a fight with some Klingons when they insult the _Enterprise_ in "Trouble With Tribbles." Long tradition there.

[@captcleghorn]

@@Brasswatchman yes, that was pure Scotty in "Tribbles".

[@explorinjenkins349]

I got Scotty from the tribble episode of TOS vibes.

[@Brasswatchman]

@@captcleghorn Who would you rather fight, though, Scotty or Kaylee? I'm definitely going with Scotty. Kaylee had something like five or six brothers, didn't she? You just *know* she fights dirty. 🥶

[@catherineelmore2004]

I can totally see that but my first thought was Scotty throwing down against the Klingon who says the Enterprise should be hauled away as garbage in The Trouble with Tribbles.

[@ChristopherCook227]

One thing that didn't get mentioned is that I'm pretty sure Tendi is actually on a secret mission for the Federation. Once everyone is back safe and the Captain is talking to the Admiral, he mentions that everyone at Starfleet is happy that she has opened diplomatic relations with Orion. Then at the end he says "There is one last piece of business regarding your Lieutenant..." and we cut away. Once she's on the Orion ship and she turns around she says "You've got this." I'm betting Tendi has an mission of some kind.

[@GrandInfernoElite]

I thought tendi was just nervous about becoming a pirate again full time and trying to give herself a pep talk. I did think it was strange that they opened relations with the orions when all they did was deal with 1 crime family. That's an interesting idea. Maybe the orion government wants to move away from piracy but the families are too powerful to take down.

[@antonnurwald5700]

I didn't pick up on that, excellent observation! Though i will say: the one thing this show is terrible at is developing a mystery story side-arc to an interesting conclusion. They all got butchered.

[@ghjong001]

The Cleaner is just doing her thing.

[@Vectorspace000]

I only caught that on my second viewing.

[@madiaw5553]

She still got the combage on her too.

[@N1FNE]

I loved when Billups was ready to throw down at the perceived slight towards the Cerritos. It reminded me of when Scotty started a fight with the Klingons for calling the Enterprise a garbage scow! I'd call that a missed "Up!"

[@JohnPeacekeeper]

I like that T'lyn has basically embraced "the logical solution to crazy is to throw in crazy that we know works" at this point

[@VandalAudi]

I meeeeean, that is basically how every progress was made.

[@shaungratton]

The crystal nebula chase was like titan A.E.

[@pcbigfile]

the ice ring of Tigrin

[@Mark_o_Helm]

And the Titan formed a new planet. Bob.😁

[@joshualieberman2265]

This is by far the best season finale of any star trek show I have seen in a while and I did not in any way shape or form expect it from an animated series but OMG they did an absolutely amazing job on this finale so much care and such a good plot.

[@christopheralthouse6378]

Welcome to LD, my friend…😅😁👍🏻

[@nathanielromero7660]

My dad made a prediction at the beginning of the season that the ship was going to be Iconian. He was a little disappointed but still enjoyed it being Nick Lacarno

[@sjTHEfirst]

I kept waiting for Nick to say that he was best pilot in Starfleet “no matter what that guy Tom Paris says”.

[@therealrobertmcdonald]

I loved the 18 year old Beckett Freeman at the Academy. Such bright eyes, full of confidence and eagerness. Reminds me of myself at 18.

[@Gangerworld]

"I believe in the mission" with the Starfleet Delta should be on a t-shirt.

[@vanashke001]

Lacarno's emblem on his jacket, front and back is the graphic of the kolvoord starburst.

[@Janoha17]

That might have been noted with his introduction in Inner Fight.

[@leaarinwarkentine]

That was mentioned in last week's episode

[@JustJessee]

As soon as I saw the Cerritos was tractor towing that Orion warship behind it I had a squeal of "OMG they're gonna Shrike that thing at the forcefield!" I was not let down 😂

[@Kodok316]

The stance Boimler had on the captain's chair was very Riker-y ! 😀

[@Jeffrey_Lew]

The scene had Best of Both Worlds pt2 vibes.

[@digitalrex5]

The thing I like best about T’Lynn is how she shows the evolution of human and Vulcan’s relationship over the centuries of Star Trek… Enterprise showed them as antagonistic yet slowly starting to respect each other…. TOS/SNW they are friends but still have some awkward quirks in their relationship (see the SNW this season and McCoy and Spock’s relationship) by the late TNG era the two cultures are old friends who completely get one another (you also see this in the friendship between Tuvok and Janeway)

[@PsyKosh]

And then there's future timeline Discovery where vulcans seem to have achieved a bit more balance on the subject of emotion. Still walking the path of logic, but seemingly more comfortable with emotion. At least that's how it seemed to me.

[@daenerystargaryen6302]

@@PsyKosh no one watches Discovery. That future crap is not canon!

[@morebaileyskim]

⁠@@daenerystargaryen6302neither are your KZbin comment responses

[@digitalrex5]

@@morebaileyskim well what is or isn’t canon is entirely up to Alex Kurtzman and no one else at the moment

[@josephsheranda]

@@digitalrex5 Disco is definitely not part of my head-canon. I only forced myself to watch the first two seasons for context of the tie-ins to SNW.

[@morebaileyskim]

I would have laughed in the face of anyone who would have told me that some of my favorite trek (if not actually just my favorite trek) would someday be ST:LD but they just expertly weave threads to have unexpected resolutions, moments of levity exactly where needed etc. and make us care for these characters and believe them so much it is mind blowing. Kudos to everyone working on that show - what a season 🎉 🖖

[@keithck3720]

Absolutely. I initially watched to see a funny Trek show and for a good laugh because adult animation . McMahan and his team trojan horsed everyone and have quietly made one of the best Trek series ever.

[@lancesmith359]

You're not very bright apparently

[@ChaosMan50ty]

One UP for me was T‘Lyn saying that mindmelds are actually quite invasive (don’t remember the exact word), which was a nice callback to T’Pol

[@craigejacobs]

You just know that Planet Locarno will be unstable because of course the Ferengi used Protomatter in their Genesis device.

[@jgant5063]

No telling how they shortchanged the formula… 😁

[@Brasswatchman]

Seems practically inevitable, yeah.

[@IdealIdeas100]

Sounds like they didnt steal the premium model.

[@N1FNE]

Had to be a lowest bidder issue.

[@generalilbis]

Would be even more hilarious if the Ferengi version DIDN'T have proto-matter and the planet's stable...can't sell and re-sell a planet if it only last days or weeks 😅

[@Snowthree]

The whole bit with the ice crystals is a massive reference to the movie Titan A.E. They share an almost identical design with the fight within having some similarities and the movie even ends in a similar manner, with the Titan being used to form a new planet using the ice crystals that gets an unusual persons name (Planet Bob) where-as in LD the Genesis Device gets activated and uses the nebula and crystals to form a new planet that gets an unusual persons name (Planet Locardo). As someone who loved Titan A.E. back when I was little I was so happy to see the references.

[@gabrieldarcy9067]

When they revealed Locarno to be behind all the disappearances, I thought it was a really weird route to go down, but I've gotta say they really thought it out. Loved this episode.

[@DirtSweatGears]

I like how they told Lacarno's story because a villain that's truly done right is a reflection of the ugly side of humanity. In Lacarno's case, it's how does this personality type respond to the circumstances life dealt with him. Not in a twirly mustache sort of way, but in a very realistic "this person is a narcissist who made bad choices and can't accept responsibility", except in the context of Star Trek. There are countless people in real life who ARE that person.

[@rickjohnston2667]

Yes, and we won't mention any names or get political, but there are people who crave power who are exactly like that.

[@barrybend7189]

It's also a good evil mirror to Tom Paris in Star Trek Online with his Delta Flight.

[@HawgPyle]

One of my favorite things about this show...I like that they've fleshed out the Orions more.

[@Nergalsama01]

I love how friggin' old Locarno looks. The man's in his thirties and looks at least 20 years older than that. Life's been harsh to this guy after the Academy expelled him. Compare that to Tom Paris in S2.

[@bthsr7113]

A healthy mind helps lead to a healthy body and life. But Locarno....

[@DoinItforNewCommTech]

On the topic of Spock still being alive, it would be nice to see Boimler get to meet up with Spock again in the present day. Good opportunity to repay the favour of Tawny and Jack appearing on SNW by giving Ethan Peck a guest starring role! I'm sure Spock raised an eyebrow when he heard the news of the LD-style uniforms being rolled out and uttered a "fascinating"

[@UltimatePerfection]

Agreed. Hopefully it will happen in the next season.

[@bthsr7113]

They have to hurry up on that before the Romulan fustercluck and he ends up in the Kelvin timeline thinking, "here we go again." Only a few years in universe until that all goes down.

[@captianblitz]

Imagine if the Cerritos was assigned to help Spock with the red matter. His face upon seeing Boimler trying to help him with a science project would be priceless, since the last one exploded and all

[@EmeraldEyesEsoteric]

I really like that it was Nick specifically trying to recruit all the "lower decks" members of the various ships into his ambitious rebellion. That scene induced a moment of Catharsis as it captured the essence of the whole theme of the series. It was a "lower decks" problem that was mostly solved with "lower decks" crewmen, despite being as big as it was.

[@philtkaswahl2124]

Boimler in the captain's seat with a Vulcan in blues, T'Lyn, in the first officer's seat? For one glorious moment, Brad was living a dream.

[@qynxi3396]

With the theme of this episode, I did like the fact that the explosion of the Genesis Device was reminiscent of the intended starburst pattern of the Kolvoord Starbust Manuevor, as the Captain's Yatch warps away.

[@cafec42]

Aw Seán, I'm so sorry if you've recently lost a pet, that's such a painful thing. They become a little part of our souls, I think. Loved the Ups & Downs, this episode was great. I would never in a million years have guessed Nick Locarno would be our big bad this season, or that he would make such a good counterpoint for Mariner. They did a great job. Acting Captain Boimler made me feel some feels too. And Billups ready to fight for the ships' honour had real shades of Scotty in The Trouble With Tribbles 😆 Looking forward to the Retro Ups & Downs! (and I hope we can still get to Threshold later 😆)

[@rmdodsonbills]

I think the best line in the whole Starfleet v. Orion scene was Capt. Freeman trying to negotiate and D'Vana says "Sorry, Captain, you have no authority here." Billups rolling up his sleeves to defend the honor of the Cerritos is very, as Kayshon might say, Scotty in the bar on K-7.

[@aerospatium3129]

Two non-Trek easter eggs you may have missed: 1 - The star-shaped crystals in the hide-and-seek sequence are a wonderful hommage to a similar scene at the climax of Don Bluth's Titan A.E.! 2 - The Ferengi interface on the Genesis device has a striking resemblance with the animated interface on the Soviet probe Val Kilmer's character has to deal with at the end of Antony Hoffman's Red Planet.

[@InJeffable]

I think the flashback solved the issue of Mariner and Sito being friends when Sito would later claim that she had no friends. Mariner may have considered herself Sito's friend, but she was really more of a Nova Squad groupie. Sito may have been fond of Mariner, but there wasn't a real friendship there.

[@bloglazer9410]

Uh, no. We know Mariner isn’t the best at dealing with her emotions, and she probably didn’t know how to respond to and comfort her friend after the accident happened. She may well have avoided the interaction altogether, leading Sito to believe her friend had abandoned her and that they were no longer friends. That doesn’t necessarily change how Mariner feels, and she may also be carrying guilt about how she responded (or failed to) when her friend was going through it. No offense, but your explaination is the mindset I expected Locarno to have with Mariner, a groupie he could exploit.

[@Vipre-]

I don't recall Sito saying she had no friends, I just remember her saying none of her immediate classmates would take her flight test with her. Regardless you're probably right in that it was more a lower classman upper classman relationship than a close friendship. Had a couple of those in school myself.

[@GSBarlev]

@@bloglazer9410 If Mariner hadn't been there for Sito in her time of need, that would have been a _whole different can of guilt_ that she'd be unpacking. Best I can resolve is that Sito was being (slightly) hyperbolic. It also makes zero sense that Mariner and Wesley wouldn't have hung out, given their mutual connection to Sito and that they ended up being in the same class (Beckett was wrapping up her first year when second-year Wesley was forced to "repeat the grade").

[@GSBarlev]

@@Vipre- Sito's exact line to Picard: > Sir, if you had any idea what it was like after that incident. *I didn't have any friends.* I didn't have anyone to talk to. I had to take my flight test with the instructor because no one else would be my partner.

[@manic5378]

@@Vipre- SITO: Sir, if you had any idea what it was like after that incident. I didn't have any friends. I didn't have anyone to talk to. I had to take my flight test with the instructor because no one else would be my partner. In a lot of ways it would have been easier to just walk away, but I didn't. I stuck with it. Doesn't that say something about my character, too?

[@tovirus9818]

When my wife and I did a roadtrip along the westcoast a few years back I snuck in some filming locations on our tour plan 😁 Vazquez rocks and the Donald C. Tillman water reclamation plant were of cause included 😅

[@tiegepike6076]

Trilithium down for you Sean and crew at Trekculture. I am happy that you have never struggled and had those struggles become self destructive and hurt those around you.

[@DXgaming-dxthelb]

my dilithium up would've gone to the Nick Lorarno line when he finds out the Genesis Device has a paywall. I was in stitches when i heard that!

[@smackarel7]

When Locarno said 'I really am' when told he wasnt a murderer answers where the starfleet ship came from. He probably tried his trick on that ship but no one took the bait, so he got rid of them.

[@RayLiehm]

A missing Cetacean Observation - the ice rings chase was extremely evocative, almost shot for shot, of the "Ice Rings of Tigrin" chase sequence from animated sci-fi classic "Titan A.E.". Absolutely melted my heart to see that, I've got a very soft spot for Titan.

[@tiacho2893]

Little detail that's easily missed. Mariner didn't roll up her sleeves during her Star Fleet Academy day.

[@Brasswatchman]

Yeah. This was her starting out fresh.

[@bthsr7113]

And the way she did up her hair back then is how she did up her hair when actively competing with Boimler for a promotion.

[@Brasswatchman]

@@bthsr7113 That's her Serious Topknot. She uses it when she's being Serious. 😆

[@lalywindland5764]

True ! She wears her sleeves up on the Cerritos so often, that not even Ransom, who had punished her for them ("roll down your sleeves, this isn't a barn" LOL) doesn't notice them anymore.

[@tiacho2893]

@@lalywindland5764 I think I remember it being mentioned in a show on the SNW/LD crossover. The SNW costumers sewed Newsome's costume with rolled up sleeves to be consistent with LD and Mariner's character.

[@RatedRKO269]

Sean’s love of starships is adorable and I completely get it. Looove nice starship designs. Great episode and season overall. T’Lyn is my MVP for the season. Such an awesome character and I’m glad she’s sticking around.

[@bostroff]

If Star Trek Legacy ever happens, it would be amazing to have some of the live action Lower Deckers as part of the crew. They’d be senior officers by then.

[@GSBarlev]

Admiral Mariner running cover for Captain Seven _a la_ April in _SNW._ Rendezvous with Captain Boimler of the USS Odyssey (she's an old girl, but she's still a beauty) to go rescue Captain Tendi and Commander Rutherford from a rogue Whale Probe.

[@TheKrstff]

@@GSBarlev My hope is still that Boimler was the captain of the Enterprise F. Ideally with first officer Mariner.

[@QuintusAntonious]

I love this idea, especially if Legacy were going to return to the syndicated format of Strange New Worlds. It could be an episode with a bit more comedy similar to Those Old Scientists.

[@RS-nk7bd]

Boimler being Captain of a Parliament Class would actually be a good thing. The Class got first intruduced in LD and is what if we take the Cali Class make it newer and feed it steroids.

[@Indium111]

This was, yet another, fantastic season of Lower Decks. Ten episodes just doesn't seem like enough. BTW, awesome Tom Paris plate there!

[@RichardGeiszler]

Tendi at the end. Putting on her game face. Rhut rho, Rhaggy!

[@abx_yenway]

It's fascinating that we've had two season finale villains where the hero tries to tell them that they "are better than this", and the villains go "I'm not". In a show where the protagonists are trying to improve and grow, it makes sense that the biggest villains recognize their moral failings and, instead of trying to improve or even justify themselves, are just fine with it.

[@panmarcepan]

Wow, sound at the end one of the best in TrekCulture! My whole flat was shaking and there was so much depth to it

[@jamesfoster9613]

*takes a giant eraser to the Sito down from s4e9* Ah there we go. Also an up go when Nick says, "ah yes the Romulans are so forgiving..." (Paraphrased)

[@GSBarlev]

I agree with erasing the Sito down, but we gotta put it right back, because Sito told Picard point-blank that there wasn't *a single person* at the academy those last two years who didn't actively shun her.

[@anna-flora999]

​@@GSBarlevwas that before or after she helped cover up a death?

[@GSBarlev]

@@anna-flora999 Don't be a jerk. Sito was emotionally manipulated into making a tragic mistake.

[@anna-flora999]

@@GSBarlev a tragic mistake which was covering up the death of a classmate. And it doesn't answer my question, because if she said that afterwards, it doesn't compromise Canon. It would make sense that mariner wasn't as enthusiastic about sito for a while afterwards and that they only got along again after sito recovered from the trauma to some extent

[@GSBarlev]

@@anna-flora999 She told Picard that after the incident, she was completely shunned by her classmates. If Beckett had at any point shunned Jaxa, she would be carrying around a whole separate set of baggage about that.

[@ricguerrero362]

What a great season finale. I agree that it’s quite possibly the strongest Lower Decks season finale yet. Kudos to the entire team at Trek Culture for all of the great content. Keep up the awesome work.

[@TCTurner]

What's mad is that Wil Wheaton is in his 50s now, about 20 years older than Sir Patrick was at the beginning of TNG! Madness!

[@eriklundstrom1336]

That last scene of Tendi hardening herself was haunting. I wonder if she’s going to be an antagonist in s5

[@Tarv1]

Or D'vana goes hard enough that drives D'erika crazy enough to send her back

[@bthsr7113]

@@Tarv1 That's what my guess is. Either by annoyance or overshadowing her, she's going to make D'Erika regret dragging her back into the fold.

[@desertdarlene]

I loved that Boimler got to be the acting captain. He did so well, too!

[@jayb8934]

I love how Freeman is just like, “why does this work?!” with the Twaining. 😂

[@cartoonkelly7924]

The pay wall on the genesis device is the most Ferengi thing to ever Ferengi and I kinda love it.

[@cjc363636]

Sean and TrekCultre.... You all make the show THAT much more enjoyable with all you do! Peace, and looking forward to the retro Ups and Downs!!

[@Blazingstoke]

I figured they'd salvaged the Streamrunner somewhere and fixed it up themselves, given all the red panels on one side. So there _wasn't_ a crew when they got it. *ETA:* I have just learned that the _Passario_ is *not Steamrunner-class at all,* but an all-new class of starship called Sabrerunner, which apparently takes the Steamrunner design and shrinks it down to the size of a Saber-class ship - so about 190 meters long instead of 370 or so. (Source: tweet from LD co-producer Brad Walters)

[@jessesinclair4734]

That was also my thought, especially as Mariner called it old.

[@Janoha17]

Another casualty of the Dominion War.

[@TheAtkey]

That's what I figured Lacarno or someone from Nova Fleet found her adrift and salvaged her.

[@Vectorspace000]

Or stole it from a surplus ships yard - after the Dominion war Starfleet must have had hundreds of ships that were in more or less in one piece, but couldn't provide the resource to repair them vs building new better ships.

[@TheAtkey]

@@Vectorspace000 Perhaps the Zakdorn lost another ship?

[@qualus]

This episode was a freaky time loop for me: I've been guiding a friend to Star Trek, and we've been watching the entire saga in chronological order (not production, but stardate-wise), and we JUST watched First Duty the previous night. It was a freaky feeling going back to those events but several decades later in just one day!

[@Enigmanaut]

I have an Up and a Down. Up: The music that was playing over Tendi on the Orion ship walking towards the camera with a wicked smile... it's the music that played in Season 3 when she was pirating the Karemma ship. It's like she's going "Oh, you want Mistress of the Winter Constellations, D'Erica? You'll get Mistress of the Winter Constellations." Down: Where was Ma'ah with the Bird of Prey he recaptured? Why is he not there to take his vengeance on Locarno, and rescue Mariner? Where is his honor?!

[@Brasswatchman]

Ma'ah is probably back in Klingon space, gathering a fleet to take revenge on those petaQs.

[@andrewgreeb916]

I was disappointed they just dropped the point, a ship full of first officers of multiple races known to be hostile to eachother working together

[@jmarie9997]

​@@andrewgreeb916 Perhaps they'll become Fenris Rangers.

[@chipstercamarillo9373]

11:41 that was my favorite thing in the episode. I love the steamrunner class of the ships we got introduced in first contact the Akira and Steamrunner beautiful.

[@andybiz4273]

Loved the "Titan A.E." feels from the ice asteroids!

[@jamesboucher5964]

Me too.

[@adrianvanleeuwen]

The way these characters are developed so well in Lower Decks, gives them real life characteristics, almost feels like I am watching a live action series with deep storytelling. Great work on Lower Deck by writers and animators!

[@bthsr7113]

Animation is no lesser a storytelling medium if the creators put in the work.

[@MysticJhn]

This episode made me legit excited to see Season 5. The look Tendi gives the camera at the last scene, along with the music, lets you know there's a lot of good story about to happen. We can assume Tendi will probably find her way back to Starfleet, but how she goes about it leaves you to wonder. Will we see The Mistress of the Winter Constellations be the Season 5 "villain"?

[@ArcangelOrtiz]

I was coming on to make a comment about that look. Tendi had a very serious look about her in that last scene. Perhaps a bit of foreboding?

[@Janoha17]

I get the sense we'll be seeing another Battle in the Center of the Mind before the end.

[@GSBarlev]

Remember the Admiral saying, "About your officer..." I think _The Cleaner_ has been *activated* for a secret assignment on Orion. Explicitly: I think D'Vana knew how D'Erika would react to their request and _Bre'r Rabbited_ her sister.

[@kobochaos]

Then we get to see the other mistresses of the seasonal constellations

[@alanrogers7090]

When you showed Mariner's escape, there was a scene where her ship passed some ice crystals. The huge one at the top left of the screen looked all the world like a T-65 X-Wing from Star Wars. Brilliant!

[@kylebrooks3683]

Did anyone who worked on Titan AE work on this episode? The hide and seek in the ice rings was -very- evocative of the cat and mouse sequence where Cale and Korso were trying to find the Titan hidden in the ice rings...

[@KenLantern]

I also was reminded of titan ae

[@jeremyoakes1]

These have been wonderful. Thank you TrekCulture for putting these together!

[@NappyBuffalo]

I agree with Sean's take on this episode. He hit the nail on the head with his assessment. The only problem that I have is that for all the love he had about this episode, he doubled down on his on the Sito Jaxa "name drop". I respect his opinion, but I stand by all the issues I brought up last week in the comments. I actually feel that his thoughts last week that Sito's name was just thrown in there are totally contradicted in his comments in this week's Ups and Downs. It was revealed Sito was a solid part of the of the two part story plot and really did appear to be part of a plan by the writers. Like I said, while I respectfully disagree some of his critiques, I still enjoy his his Ups and Downs. I look forward to it just as much as the episodes themselves. Keep the conversation going, Sean!

[@poisonfountain6]

This episode was honestly brilliant, i was laughing so much the back and fourth between Rutherford and Boymler regarding Tom Paris had me creased

[@heatherfyffe3618]

What's with the "temporal observations" interruptions in the closing music for cetacean observations? And I noticed a couple moments in the regular ups and downs where a cetacean swims by, behing Sean but in front of the 'video screen'. Does that usually happen and I've never noticed before? Either way... weird. As for the episode, I loved every little bit of the TWOK tribute. I think I noticed the music first, in fact, and then realized the visual similarity. And then when the genesis device exploded, the super subtle way the genesis wave expanded outwards... just like in the movie and so beautifully done.

[@Hans-Yolo]

I am asking myself the same, it was also in previous Ups&downs i think but only starting in this season i guess

[@TheGeek27]

From what I saw, B’eth won because after she fell on Migleemo, you can see his wing slip from under her and tap out.

[@bthsr7113]

I swear, that man needs to be demoted. His exercises increase patient tension, his lessons are unhelpful, and he can't even trigger an allergic reaction without it backfiring on him.

[@Solitaire001]

Rewatching the ending that's what I saw too. If he had moved out of the way he would have won. Although it seems an odd choice, I think the reason she chose Migleemo is that he could win the fight without harming his opponent, a very Tendi thing to do.

[@thecunninlynguist]

fantastic finale. I was 😂😂😂 at the pay to win bomb. Poor misguided Not Tom Paris. Speaking of which, the opening talking about Nick/Tom between Boimler and Rutherford was classic.

[@Soul-cry1]

Tom and Nick are the same person I don't care what nobody says 😡, I really wish they would have come up with some way to connect the two instead of just a throw away couple of lines.

[@padoco73]

My dog, Phlox, likes watching your content too. She hears your voice and then stares at the screen. I just gave her an extra hug for you.

[@domianfreimann9487]

the ice rings and Mariner playing hide and seek in them could be seen as a nice bow to Titan A.E. To be honest, I expected her the whole time to set off the device inside the ice field.

[@demdazseinacc]

the LD season was just phenomenal - laughed so much! the LD explosion reminded me of the wormhole from ds9

[@Vectorspace000]

If this is Tendi leaving permanently, and no longer main cast next season, I will be devastated!

[@GSBarlev]

I don't think she is-Mike McMahon said Season 5 would feature more Orion, so we'll likely just be getting a Boimler-on-the-Titan arc-but _imagine for a second_ that the reason she's leaving _LDS_ is either: 1. To join the cast of _Prodigy_ for Season 3 as Rok-Tahk's mentor, or 2. To join _Legacy_ *in live-action* as Seven's XO

[@Vectorspace000]

@GSBarlev it would also be a very cruel thing to do to us to have T'Lyn express a desire to be Tendi's science bestie, just before Tendi leaves for good. So I agree I think she will be back, but I can't help but worry that she won't be.

[@jeremydale4548]

@@GSBarlev Actually, Raffi is Seven's XO. So that spot's filled. Science officer though is still open

[@NediSafa]

This episode had the most wonderful and exciting animation of all the lower decks episodes!

[@LENZ5369]

Excellent episode; lots of good -especially loved acting Cpt Boimler and the defusal paywall.

[@espiongerbil]

I think Mariner's comments about the inside of the ship, as well as the interior design, was also a dig at the Kelvin-verse interior designs. She mentioned it was all very white, and the round corridors looked similar too, if I recall correctly.