Trekyards EP301 - Constitution Class (ST:Discovery) - First Look

[@still_guns]

Either this is: 1. USS Defiant after years of refits in the Mirror Universe 2. USS Defiant in a pre-TOS configuration tat eventually gets refitted to TOS standards 3. CBS fucking with canon

[@tomcat2395]

still_guns the have fucked up the klingons, Klingon ships, star fleet ships including the Connie.

[@ManofSteel4889]

or its not a reboot storywise just a visual update....which is perfectly fine.

[@tomcat2395]

It just proves that the visual design of Discovery is piss poor

[@itubeutubewealltube1]

you are making a HUGE time loop mistake. TOS Mirror Mirror happened ONE YEAR before THE Tholian Web/Defiant episode. That means the original TOS mirror universe was ALTERED when the Tholians sent back The Defiant 100 years. This created an ALTERNATE mirror universe! Originally, there was no Defiant in the Mirror timeline so no Archer getting the ship and NO Emperess Sato.! So, the constitution class in Mirror, Mirror is correct... It only changed later when the Defiant was sent back creating that alternate Mirror timeline. The question is, were the writers on this show smart enough to take that into account?... I am going to say no..haha

[@still_guns]

The original design is so engraved in canon, you cannot just pretend it doesn't exist

[@anthonylasalle7392]

It's natural the Defiant a ship the Terrans have had for about 86 years, would undergo repairs, refits, and upgrades. I don't know why people are #Triggered.

[@supermonkey321]

It's pretty obvious they don't give a flying fuck about canon. CBS/Paramount have made it clear on multiple occasions that they don't care what the hardcore fans think. All they care about are the general audience. I mean, look at the damn Klingons! They're not even close!

[@adamlemus7585]

People love excusing the visual difference on the the original being from the 60's and Discovery being produced today. Never mind the fact that they were able to keep the aesthetic of the Star Wars films from the 70's into Rouge 1. Funny how they didn't butcher the star destroyers and Tie fighters and blame it on being filmed in a different era

[@julesbpitt]

Trek is supposed to be our future, and I'm grateful, because I'm still traumatized from growing up in the 90s during the Eugenics Wars

[@kimcraigj]

Pretty simple explanation for Star Wars staying close to the original...one was a TV show...that has changed hands through the years...the other a progressively bigger budgeted film franchise run by one guy until recently.

[@vivomega3937]

S C and that justs proves that people like you are Not real fans, just wanna bes or liars. A real fan knows this is garbage. TOS ships are still good looking even today. STO online shows you how to update a ship correctly. Its sad that a game company can reproduce TOS style stuff well but a show with a larger budget cannot do anything right.

[@zacharyruiz1542]

S C I agree with you but I also think Star Wars holds up a lot more because the Star destroyers and ties still hold up to this day I mean I don't question the fact of the technology I just see it as a giant Galactic Empire and they're just trying to the most economical thing possible so very basic shapes pam pam put together

[@SirBroadsword]

@ S C Both In A Mirror, Darkly and Star Trek Online neatly torpedo your argument. There was absolutely no need for Star Trek to be visually overhauled in this way. And if the powers that be wouldn't accept putting the TOS aesthetic on TV (or rather, on the Internet), there was absolutely need for Discovery to be a prequel.

[@Bill23799]

Ok , you two are just over thinking this. The real reason the wire frame of the USS Defiant looks so odd is obvious. None of the Star Trek: Discovery producers or writers have ever seen an episode of classic Star Trek. The wire frame illustration is based on a very bad 1960's USS Enterprise Toy made in China they have on a table in their writer's room.

[@flowerlord0]

They should have the producers and writers required to have watched all Star Trek two times.

[@dbroadwayvfx]

Discovery is a visual reboot, so when they do show the Connie, I can guarantee it will not look like the TOS design, but still be recognizable as a Connie.

[@colanitower]

It is possible to do that well, there are a few good visual Constitution modernizations available. The Chris Martin version (Trekyards episode 203) would do nice in Discovery's Mirror Universe. The MadKoiFish version (Trekyards episode 201) could serve as Discovery's prime timeline Constitution. The round nacelles and big secondary hull are a departure from most ships seen in Star Trek Discovery, but that is just perfect: a class of rugged ships, built for duration and reliability, to perform very long and long-range missions where they will be on their own most of the time. I hope the producers of Discovery will come up with a modernized Connie like that.

[@ryno1509]

I don’t know why people don’t get that discovery is set in a visually rebooted prime timeline, all the cannon events still happened they’ve just changed the aesthetic... they’ll not have an original constitution class ship in their new style of the trek universe even if it is the same ship...

[@dbroadwayvfx]

CBS owns Star Trek, and they say it is Prime. They are the final word. Doesn't matter what fans say.

[@CaptainM792]

If they show a constitution class in an episode of Discovery, it should be updated visually so it matches our era . It should not have the same design as The ones in the original series because the technology of that show is outdated.

[@poseidon5003]

+MonkeyZorr Discovery certainly IS prime. The shows producers told us first from the START that it would be a visual reboot and honestly I think that it was about time they did. The JJ Verse movies sucked. TNG style is old and outdated. That old and outdated style is half the reason Enterprise was so horrible. They had to take a different direction and give us something new visually. I am glad they did.

[@davidedward10]

I have a theory. Would you like to hear my theory? Discovery is actually in the post nemesis era, but it only a fictional TV show about starfleet in the 2250s. Get it? Someone trying to make a fictional drama about starfleet in the 2250s, but it’s filmed in 2409-ish?

[@xaviervega468]

Honestly it's not that bad at all. It's an absolute gem compared to what they did with the Klingon ships.

[@Ziplock9000]

I agree 100%

[@gortmundy01]

I'm with you. Its not bad at all. And as you say, compared to the what they did to the D7's its awesome.

[@gortmundy01]

I just hope to Hell it has real phasers and not those idiotic pew pew guns.

[@shkeni]

I'm guessing it's because people would have been *really* pissed off if they had messed with the Constitution class more. The Klingon ships (and the klingons) are laughable.

[@mattmon6118]

You mentioned how the nacelles look NX like. After thinking it over, it is possible that it received damage and needed fixing with material on hand at the time. Making bigger versions of an NX like nacelle to fit the ship. Just a thought.

[@PaulBoland]

I love it and I too want to see it. And really, seeing a Constitution Class ship with minor differences isn't going to ruin it.

[@BoroMirraCz]

This.

[@TheCJUN]

It needed a design update. Dont get me wrong, I love the original (from the Prime movies, not TOS). But even that ship does look dated.

[@matthew022au]

I agree. it just wouldn't fit in this universe.

[@vulpixgrant]

They showed the TOS Connie in Deep Space Nine, and with modern camera work the thing looked like it fit in that show's style... Then again in Enterprise it seemed a bit out of place but still acceptable. Discovery should not have been called canon, that is the only reason for all the hate from the old school fans. The JJ Movies are so far removed from canon, but because they aren't in the same reality I really enjoy them as they are fun to watch.

[@BoroMirraCz]

Exactly. Connie is iconic piece of design, but not that interesting. Most of the design is still present so it basically still is a Connie. With a minor facelift thas is long overdue :).

[@Jack_Stafford]

Where in the prime movies did the Defiant _ever_ appear?!

[@saladinbob]

Excuse my language, but only STD could take such a perfect icon of Sci Fi and fuck it up. And before the fanboys come amoaning about it not being important, did they change the Millennium Falcon in the new Star Wars? No because they respect that IP more than they do ours.

[@GrijzePilion]

Agreed, agreed, agreed.

[@RemainIndoorsPainting]

That's because Star Wars hasn't been rebooted. The second the Jar Jar Trek films were approved, that was it for the IP. Of course the suits won't state outright that this is a reboot, like they refused to do with the Jar Jar films, because they know they can milk the existing fan base if they give them hope of a continuation of the original IP.

[@drksideofthewal]

Speaking as a Star Wars fan, they absolutely don't respect the Star Wars IP more. Sure, the Millennium Falcon doesn't look different, but that's only so they can cash in on nostalgia. Look no further than how they treated Luke Skywalker... Star Trek is getting off easy.

[@xaviervega468]

drksideofthewal You got to be kidding me. There is no way in hell Star Wars is being disrespected more. For that to happen they would have to shave Chewie bald, put scales on him, and then claim this is how Wookies are supposed to look.

[@saladinbob]

@Spider Pope the thing is, whilst us long term fans look down on the JJ verse movies, Abrams showed Star Trek more respect than Kurtzman is. His Klingons had head ridges, the D7 was a D7, their Birds of Prey looked somewhere between Ent's and the movie era. Yes he didn't get everything right but he got more right than this show is. @drksideofthewal, what I'm referring to is the visual continuity. Stormtroopers still look like Stormtroopers. A Star Destroyer looks like a Star Destroyer. The visual continuity of Star Trek is every bit as important as it is for Star Wars but it's the first thing Kurtzman has thrown out the window with this new show. Until that visual continuity is restored, it will continue to antagonise many long standing fans.

[@CaptRobertApril]

I say again, with the Defiant being the only example of that technology, they wouldn't change a bloody thing on that ship. Especially in light of how the ISS Enterprise is a carbon copy of the second pilot Enterprise (which means that even after a hundred years, that they still haven't got everything figured out).

[@Riceball01]

I agree. A good real life example of this was when a B-29 bomber had to make an emergency landing in the Soviet Union and the Russians held on to it and copied it. According to stories/historians, the Russians copied the B-29 to a T down to every last nut, bolt, and rivet; I think the only thing they may have done was change all of the writing on or in the plane to Cyrillyic but that was it. They changed nothing else because they really didn't understand what everything did or worked so in order to play it safe they copied it exactly.

[@Tuning3434]

+Riceball01 As a mechanical engineer myself I cannot image that they didn't updated the design to suit their own production methods. Maybe the first prototypes where a very close copy, and while the bureaucratic process (foolhardily in my opinion) tried to limit design effort to a mere carbon copy, the final production Tu-4 was distinctively different to accommodate for manufacturing techniques, the metric system (!) and internal developments. Didn't understand it was a bit of a stretch, we are talking about the people that where the fore-front of aviation technology in the 1920 / early 1930s and in the same period defined their own way on how to approach launch vehicles for space ships. A distinctively different approach to their western counterparts, but considering we are still using the original R7 (1957 vintage) design to this day, they weren't fools.

[@CaptRobertApril]

Like I said, anything derived from the Defiant is fair game, but the Defiant herself would be kept intact and pristine.

[@drksideofthewal]

Maybe they didn't have a choice. It's not like the ship could go 70 years without needing maintenance, and maybe they weren't able to approximate the parts perfectly.

[@CaptRobertApril]

Are saying they could do that angled number but couldn't replicate a simple straight pylon? Puh-lease...

[@ClonePilotSwoop]

One thing I was thinking, clearly this is modified, but any electrical or mechanical equipment will fail or need repair. But this is an advanced system. Imagine an F-16 being taken back to the 1930's. So as things start failing, they don't have the technical know-how to fix it properly, so they replace the pieces with whatever is advanced at the present, you know? So, they have to replace some of the warp manifolds, they have to replace the deflector, add on some phaser arrays, etc... I would have liked a comment when they said about the Defiant for someone to say "What have they done to her?" Just a quick phrase, but shows us that hey, that doesn't look like the Defiant where we're from.

[@amazedsatsuma]

yea my thoughts of the Defiant wireframe was heavily modified Nx-01 that was sent back a century source V vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/7/74/Enterprise_%28NX-01%29_alternate%2C_E2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080530223530&path-prefix=en

[@hanneswalter9856]

Just like Back to the Future 3, they needed this big clunky "thing" at the front of the Delorean, after the small chip from 85 failed.

[@tptstud01]

If like Burnham said, you're always looking for the next knife in your back, why would Mirror Hoshi allow the tech of the Defiant to be given to somebody who could challenge her power? It's far more likely she would have a fleet of lower powered ships, using the Defiant's database, and 100+ years of foreknowledge. All the Discovery era ship classes would be there. She could solidify her power by "inventing" new technologies and ships, but keeping the best for herself.

[@darcknightfall1698]

This is the STD visuals team. Its almost a given they will piss on anything cannon, so that is almost certainly the constitution class as they see it. I don't consider it super ugly, but it definitely isn't right.

[@supermonkey321]

Everything they've done since the first JJ Abrams film is a middlefinger to Star Trek and its fans. They don't give a shit about what has made Star Trek special and iconic, and what has made it so beloved by fans for 50+ years. In fact, I think they have actual disdain for the fans.

[@BoroMirraCz]

I see no middle finger. Maybe just because I'm just a general Star Trek fan instead of close-minded wannabe. It's ironic because it's you who spit on the ideas of Star Trek and you "fans" deserver every ounce of disdain.

[@lostinbrent3737]

It’s very telling of how abusive Discovery has been to real Trekkies when Samuel describes his reaction as “very happy it wasn’t more dissimilar from the original version” as if to say that he expects less respect for the canon from its show runners at this point. You guys are making quaint excuses like “it’s been modified” for what you know is another “fuck you” to the fans. Alex Kurtzman is a monster & should never have been given this job after his horrible work on Into Darkness.

[@vivomega3937]

So true Brent. Hell the actor who plays the 'caption' of the ship in std mocked the real fans and dared the fans not to sign up to watch std..

[@louferrao2044]

valor0dragoon I for one to Lorca's advise. I don't watch that so called Star Trek show. I stuck with ST Continues.

[@BoroMirraCz]

Don't speak for everyone of us... Just for that you are no real Trekkie...

[@MasonicKryptonite]

You raise an excellent point, and I've been thinking about this a lot recently. In my mind there are two possible explanations for the actor's statement: Either he is/was so confident in the show's success that he was subtly declaring it a hit show, saying that you'd be an idiot not to jump on the bandwagon. OR (my personal opinion) he is voicing the fact that the showrunners and cast simply couldn't care less about whether or not the long-term fans like it or not. Regardless of which is more accurate, it's a kick in the nads to everyone who has loved the franchise before STD aired. With that being said, Samuel's comment really hit home for me, because it was the exact thought that went through my head when I first saw that scene - "Wow, I actually recognize canon in THAT ship..." Saying that out loud makes me realize how sad the current state of television is if we have to be glad that modern shows do not completely ruin the aspects of shows we've come to love...

[@routledgejc]

Looks fine. It's recognisably constitution class, unlike the Klingon D7. Wondering how upset people would have been if they had seen a wire frame of the Enterprise refit in the Motion Picture before seeing it onscreen.

[@Tuning3434]

+TBolt I am pretty sure quite some people got upset from both the ST:Phase 2, TMP and heaven forbids, cause we are still in the middle of the flak 50 years later, the ST: Planet of the Titans version. While I haven't been that involved in the hyping by CBS before the start, I don't think the weak canon of STD is that bad. I do not agree what they did to Klingon fleet, as it has no tie-in whatsoever, but I can stand by the Starfleet designs. And for the rest, at the end all the visuals are just a tool to tell the story, just like in TOS they are just tools to tell the story. I don't get upset that the TOS sets are so clearly card-board, I enjoy the retro feel and how they support the story. If you can't get passed that, than you do have a pretty tough life.

[@oldatarigamer]

There's no way to expect the TOS Constitution Class to look exactly like the Discovery Constitution Class. I think its close enough. There's clearly a visual re-imagining with Discovery, which is expected.

[@oldatarigamer]

Lady Wanderer it’s important in my opinion to respect what has come before but even TNG looks dated when compared to aspects of Discovery. Nolan didn’t dress Bale in Adam West’s bat suit. Same applies here.

[@vivomega3937]

We 'fanboys' are the true fans. Sc you are a fake and odds are you are a jj trekkie and someone who doesn't give a damn about canon so get off your high horse and leave.

[@SirBroadsword]

@oldatarigamer Nolan's Batman also didn't pretend it was a direct prequel to Adam West's Batman either. 'Nor did it try to claim that this was how Adam West's Batman looks and had in fact always looked. If it was impossible to maintain the TOS aesthetic on a modern webshow (because _clearly_ selling the public a retro-futuristic aesthetic is impossible... even though TOS merch has always outsold all other periods of Star Trek...), then they needed to either make Discovery post-TNG, in the same way that TNG itself skipped forwards in the Star Trek timeline in order to permit itself what was at its own time a modern aesthetic, or else admit that it's a straight-up alternative universe along the lines of JJTrek. Discovery tries to have it both ways and it just doesn't work. @S C You do realize that In A Mirror, Darkly has always been one of the most well-liked ENT episodes among fans, right? If you're a fan yourself you should know that. And Hell, you don't even need to be a fan to realize that the fan response to various episodes of a given show is going to vary with the quality of each individual episode (in much the same way that people love the TOS episode "The Doomsday Machine", but almost universally hate the TOS episode "Spock's Brain"). Also, Enterprise actually made an effort to maintain continuity and most (not all, but most) of what happens in it works with the rest of the franchise, unlike Discovery.

[@markmendel9883]

Why not? We saw it two other shows?

[@markbrown351]

S C your beloved reboot of a connie if it is the design in the discovery universe is not the canon prime universe connie!! But hang on a minute CBS claim this is set in prime universe?? But how can they look different surely CBS isn't lying? Why can't you have some commen sense and admit what's in front of your face that discovery is a reboot!!! What's next when they come out and have this excuse of a connie be 2 or 3 times bigger will you defend that Also?

[@fatproduce]

I hope that this is confirmation that Discovery is it's own timeline that mostly follows the events of Prime Canon, but have different aesthetics and technology. When did the show runners insist that Discovery is prime Canon? If it was before the behind the scenes shakeup and rewriting it could still have a chance of being its own timeline. I hope this is the case. Because screwing with established Canon is very much a spit in long time trekkies' faces.

[@CullenRick]

Idiots will still try to pretend that it's Prime Timeline.

[@akrizar4]

Tbh I don't care anymore about realities and so on. It's not what star trek is about. If I get good story it can be jj-trek for whatever I care

[@NPractitioner]

I go with the theory of continuing modifications over 100 -so years. Like most things in ST:D, I am intrigued!

[@phillip1054]

Honestly i'm kind of hoping that's what happened here, cause i watched this and remembered the other mirrors and went "what the ..... what the heck happened here".

[@Apollo_Sierra]

NPractitioner it was quickly mentioned that the data was recovered from the rebels databanks

[@Argonautx66]

If the actual Defiant appeared 100 years earlier, it, most likely would've been scrapped by the TOS era and its components thoroughly studied and upgraded into newer, more advanced vessels.

[@novax-ig9yt]

I only dropped in on this Trekyards episode out of curiosity, and sure enough, STD disappoints once again. Par for the course. I don't really care what goes on with STD, anymore. I stopped watching the show after episode 1. They can do what they want, but as far as I am concerned, it doesn't exist.

[@MrTHORN74]

That fin that looks like it's on the secondary hull is actually on the port nacelle. It's just a bad angle

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

I looked more closely and I think you're right. Phew! :-)

[@90lancaster]

It's fun to speculate what changes could be made - I like the idea that perhaps that isn't a long Impulse engine but the back end of a Primary Hull shuttle bay between two engines. The top of the primary hull could be hugely different too.

[@g.waldmeister1851]

The fin looks too big to be this far in the background in my opinion.

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

It's a very low-res wireframe, but the lines of the port nacelle do at least match up with it

[@ryno1509]

They’ll obviously change the design slightly even if it doesn’t add up with cannon it’s got to fit with the current shows aesthetic

[@JohnnyZenith]

ryan shannon Unfortunately such sense and rationality will be largely ignored on here.

[@khaosbydesignuk946]

I think that the best way to look at Discovery is that they're sticking to historical continuity as in all of the actual events line up exactly as it was in the original series but they're just doing a "visual redesign" of the prime universe. So it's not a reboot or anything it's just updating the visuals and the style of the show/technology to make it more palatable to a 2017 audience, because honestly if a whole new show came out in 2017 that actually looked like TOS with it's 60's visual design only the hardcore trekkies would watch it. Trek is supposed to be a vision of the future and TOS is too outdated to be seen as that unfortunately.

[@hosank]

"as in all of the actual events line up exactly as it was in the original series" ----> except that they haven't. I would have been ok with updated visuals, hell even the JJ-verse did an OK job with that, but in this case, the aesthetic choices of the show are so out of place with classic trek (minus a few callbacks) and they established too many continuity errors: Vulcan skype, Vulcan violence, Vulcan logic terrorism, Klingons with Cloaking mechanisms, Mudd having nothing in common with his TOS homologue, etc

[@khaosbydesignuk946]

"Vulcan Skype" was in ENT too, Trip and T'pol did it, granted they were mentally bonded after mating not though a meld but it still happened. Same with Vulcan violence, remember the mind meld raping or Administrator V'Las trying to wipe out a Vulcan religious movement (that same episode had Vulcan terrorism too). I thought Mudd was brilliant but the Klingon cloaking tech was a cock up though i'll give you that, but lets face it it's hardly the first Trek show to have glaring continuity errors; or even the first to forget who does and doesn't have cloaking (DS9 - Emperors new cloak).

[@TheCJUN]

Yeah, you are right. Which is badly needed. And thing is, visual updates has been done throughout ST history.

[@SumDumGy]

I'm already looking at Discovery the best way possible: By not.

[@khaosbydesignuk946]

Seeyay, exactly I mean look at the motion picture, as soon as they got a bigger budget and more resources the redesigned the ship, uniforms, Klingons etc. all with hardly any explanation and people just excepted it.

[@MWFERGO]

I think the mentioning of the USS Defiant being found is the only thing this show has done that's canon This show is really hard to stomach

[@DeadLoyalty39]

i havent seen any of it aside from clips uploaded here on KZbin. i wont pay for another streaming service when i already use Hulu sometimes.

[@hosank]

During the scene, they're discussing the fact that the Defiant is currently patrolling sector 6 (or whatever), implying that they have seen constitution classes before. However, when Mikael opens the file showing the Defiant Wireframe, neither Mikael or the Captain say something like "Oh, what have they done to her?". They seem to immediately recognise the wireframe as a representation of a current Constitution class; so yeah: I don't think the "modified or pre-TOS version"...It's time to just accept that for all intents and purposes, Discovery is a Reboot :P

[@power543]

Yes but they are also in the mirror universe and didnt bat much of an eye lit at the uniforms or badge beyond....look a new badge. At this point they know things look different so they wont say "wow it looks so different after being here for 100 years in an alternate universe". It works both way

[@hosank]

The Schenzou in the Mirror Universe is identical to the prime universe to the point where they share the same security access codes. I don't know why they would automatically accept the though that a mirror universe Connie would be different from their own without even discussing it

[@power543]

Which makes 0% sence as the Shenzou was OLD tech by the time they got the USS Defiant tech, so why would the Mirror Universe build a Shenzou 100 years later and look identical? Its creating 115 year old tech? Silly Silly

[@hosank]

exactly: this is a reboot (both aesthetically and canon-wise)

[@power543]

Oh sure...obviously a visual reboot BUT they say its prime canon as is the Mirror Universe the same one so we have to keep them to their word... Its tricky but we do have to report both ways and try and be fair with it, despite it being a visual reboot.

[@drknight48]

I appreciate all the hard work that goes into these videos! Please keep up all the great work!

[@aquamonkee]

If that's how the Defiant looks solely in the mirror universe why did none of them say "What the hell happened to her?"

[@MADDOG2151]

guys it's the palace!

[@beejcarson]

It’s Mudd. Mudd is the emperor. All hail emperor Mudd!

[@inmoraa7613]

Scotty did stat to the computer, "No blooby, A, B, or C. N.C.C. One Seven Oh, one." So in a way he did say which version he wanted.

[@valuesubtracted]

Without commenting on the canonicity of it, I think it's a pretty good design - particularly as it makes the Constitution class fit in with the Discovery aesthetic.

[@David_B_Dornburg]

"Change" just for the sake of change... sucks. And a lot of the crap they have done with "Discovery" is exactly that. Having said that..., in this particular instance, if the reason really is that the Defiant has been adapted through the years while in the Mirror Universe, then that is logical. But, if they also change how the Enterprise looks when we get back to what They are calling the "Prime Universe" then all bets are off and no matter what They want us to believe, "DISCOVERY" the show, DOES NOT take place in the same Prime Universe as the Original Series. At that point they are going to see even more blow-back and probably a loss of viewerships.

[@Alan1701b]

So just to get this clear in my head...the Constitution-Class USS Defiant of the primary universe year 2267 gets sent back in time to the 2150's but also crosses over to the mirror universe too. The ship stays in the mirror universe and for the next 100 years it has its technology explored and it presumably influences the creation of more Constitution-Class starships like the ISS Enterprise as we see in TOS episode "Mirror, Mirror"...but rather than it looking like the wireframe model from the recent Discovery episode "Despite Yourself" it still ends up looking like the classic Constitution-Class design we all know and love. So either it is a continuity mess up by the shows PTB or maybe the Defiant is some sort of flagship in the mirror universe possibly reserved solely for the use of the Empress / Emperor and has been subjected to modifications to its weapons, shields, and armour that have been reserved specifically for it just to make it more intimidating for not only the Terran Empire's enemies but also for its "friends" too.

[@Theottselmaster]

Could be worse, could be the "Klingon" ships level of butchery.

[@driftbandit4740]

One more thing, if l'm not mistaken, l believe Captain Foley mentioned that the TOS Constitution was featured on every iteration of Star Trek. He forgot to mention the Battlestar Galactica reboot.

[@JessHull]

I'm actually surprised they kept it so similar considering Disco's track record.

[@vivomega3937]

Just wait Jess because like everything else in STD it will be even worse

[@gmon78]

Knew you guys would be doing this video. I genuinely can't wait to watch. I'm more excited to watch this video than I was watching the actual episode! Many thanks:)

[@nefdsnet]

One has to admire Discovery's consistency... they consistently deliver abysmal writing, rape fifty years of history and spirit, both steal from and spit in the face of canon at the same time, and insult every fan of the show by calling it a prime universe visual reboot when all it is is a clusterfuck of incoherent insufferable incompetence. 😠

[@khaosbydesignuk946]

Don't watch it then 👍

[@lukeirot]

coming from some one who probably has the creative tastes of a person from the 60 that probably would prefer TOS level acting and ship design based on basic geometric shapes.

[@BoroMirraCz]

I'm trekkie and I don't feel insulted... So that means that you were talking about those little cooling devices. Why would anyone want to insult them? Granted, it's winter and noone needs cooling (except for wannabe "true star trek fans"), but still...

[@driftbandit4740]

I absolutely love this design. I believe that this maybe the modern Constitution class in the mirror universe. This could be a one off model that only the Empress would have as her Flagship. The ship looks like kitbash of the Constitution and Ambassador class.

[@driftbandit4740]

I believe that wire frame model is a test to see the kind of feedback they would get from the fans who have not abandoned the series. Plenty of time to work on it to make it better. I don't think this is the finished outline.

[@johnmiller7682]

It's only been 100 years. Why do you keep thinking Hoshi is dead? Since she was around 25, in Enterprise, she would be around 125 years old. McCoy was 137 when he visited Enterprise D in TNG. So there's no reason to think she'd be dead. Add to that, the fact that Dr. Soong probably exists. So there's genetic manipulation available as well.

[@DarthRepublican]

I tend to take Stuart's view that we're looking at a Defiant with decades worth of refits. And it's pretty easy to see the refits. They've bulked out the saucer and deflector. And apparently the the impulse engines.

[@ckos1978]

You were talking about the shape of the nacelles looking like ENT era. This got me thinking that over time the ship would take battle and day to day use damage. Even reverse engineering would result in the use of current time materials and builds. The double prong deflector and the replacement of the nacelles points me in this direction. Basically the ship is a amalgam of ENT era and TOS era tech.

[@AaronJoshandRiley]

First the Klingons.. then the D7.. now the Connie.. oh please.. make them stop.. :(

[@xaviervega468]

It's gem compared to monstrosities they call the D7 and Bird of Prey.

[@dr.sommercamp3435]

Lady Wanderer that would be actually realy cool!

[@soulenoid6701]

Aaron Morse don't watch the show and stop Bitching maybe?

[@poseidon5003]

+Aaron Morse : Why don't you just stop and GET OVER IT. You whine like spoiled children. You people are a bunch of sad obsessed psychos. It was no secret that Discovery was going to be a visual reboot. It's not going to stop. It not going to change to suit your psychological needs. The TNG style is DEAD AND GONE and has been dead since May 13th, 2005. Discovery would be committing series suicide is they followed the same template and use the same visuals. It would be stupid to do so. It looks enough like a Connie. Focusing on the differences instead of the similarities is ultimately self defeating. Discovery is action packed and the storytelling is excellent trek. It doesn't matter if the Klingon's look different. Why use makeup that was invented in the 80's and force the Klingon's to once again look like the KISS army in a show that premiered in 2017? I don't care if they visually reimagined an ALIEN Trek species. They look Klingon enough. You sad people can go and watch The Orville. It's where you belong. Nobody complained when TNG gave the Romulan's eyebrow ridges for no good reason. And then Enterprise went and did the same thing. STUPID of them.

[@Argonautx66]

Stephen Arseneau and here you are not allowing them their voice. How tolerant and open minded of you. 🙄

[@ShadowStarNX-00]

I honest think Conni we See in the Latest episode of Discovery is a De-fit of the u.s.s. defiant from in the mirror darkly + extra armour, The reason for this is... After Hoshi took control and destroyed the first rebellion, she that Parts of the U.S.S. defiant striped off and replaced so that the Defiant's tech could be research and replicated on other ships , and the reason the part got replace with different (likely less advanced tech) was because Empresses Hoshi needed to keep the Defiant in service to act as a reminder of her power and strike fear in to others (so no-one tries to over throw her) this is also part of why the Defiant is away from Terra-Prime What do you think ?

[@CvBrony]

The only thing that bugs me is the pylon design. The rest of the changes are only slight tweaks that I can forgive in the name a visual refresh.

[@Synthaholics]

Great video guys! I'm with you Captain Foley I really want to see it fully rendered in someway on screen. Ideally I'd like to see it in space next to the Discovery.

[@tacoma171]

Sad as it is to say, we’re all trying to make excuses for the people who work on Discovery who really just don’t care. They don’t. They’re gonna change everything just because they can. First the Klingons and now this. I don’t understand this reasoning and I never will. Keep pissing off your fan base. As I’ve said before, redesign the Millennium Falcon and see what the Star Wars crowd would do. It would NEVER happen. Those guys do as much as they can to keep everything authentic. Not Star Trek though. Let’s continue to change as much as we can!

[@shawn2780]

I'd love to see this on screen. I think the best way to do it would be have someone throw an off the cuff comment in when it warps in like "What the hell did they do to it?" or something like that then have someone be like "Well it has been in this universe for 112 years...." No further elaboration, period. Then for the rest of the series never show a prime universe Connie again. That allows them to maintain their visual reboot, but also doesn't spoil the canon of the original series design. I think it's a win on all fronts. As far as it's impact on mirror universe tech and ship design... What if the Empress and her successors greedily refused to let the ship and tech be analysed or copied, else they lose their superiority edge. Why do this? If they build a fleet of equally powerful ships, they would dominate their enemies.. but that also creates a fleet of potential rivals. If the Empress/Emperor is the only one with the technology- they have the edge.

[@stevenewman1393]

🖖😎👍Very well nicely done and very well informatively executed and explained indeed guys👌.

[@RobertWilke]

Reboot yes, Prime Hell NO! STD is alt universe Prime. Mirror is alt mirror also. That's why this wire frame is off. When we see an actual Connie in STD it will probably look similar to this. Except for the mega phasers. Nothing of this show is prime Canon at all I don't care how badly CBS proclaims it.

[@ZeroB4NG]

yeah all those fan theories are cute, but i lost the will to give them the benefit of the doubt after all the fan theories about the Klingons got crushed by the reality that this is simply a disrespectful visual reboot that can't even compete with the quality of fan films over the last few years. in ship design or visual quality... (why is everything so blurry and has so many neon colors, that just looks bad!).

[@NephritduGrey]

That really makes sense with their hint of signature waves. I hope the Discovery part of dicsovery will be them (like sliders) jumping from universe to universe and them getting to the actual prime universe eventually.

[@RobertWilke]

Marcus we can only hope.

[@vivomega3937]

Lady Wanderer, I would get behind that, if it wasn't Prime and then being just another universe that has nothing to do with the true ST time line.

[@lukasperuzovic1429]

my theory is that the Spore drive eventually screws with reality (Reality manipulation) or gets the crew stuck in the actual prime timeline your pick.

[@RonnieBoySoD]

As others here have said, I reckon the Defiant is the palace, and as it is the seat of the emperor, it is a unique refit of the connie. Strap on some bleeding edge tech; faster nacelles, mega phaser pods, better armour/shields and a whole load of gold bling, and you've got yourself a great flying palace and a physical embodiment of the Terran Empire. That way all the other mirror universe connies will look like the cage variant, and we get a nice unique yet familiar anti-hero ship.

[@nicholasdickens2801]

*Happy New Year Trekyards!* and to everyone here :) 🎈🎆🎇🎉🎊🎈🍾🥂

[@todabrilla]

Is that fin on the dorsal of the secondary hull or is it on the port warp nacelle?

[@ryanholden3522]

Thank goodness I'm in a comment stream that I can agree with. I'm so looking forward to seeing the DIS take on a Constitution class. I think we, as the audience, will be able to decide for ourselves if the likely refit is a refit, or in fact just a visual reboot. I can't see any reason to refit a ship as extensively as the wireframe looks, but I guess we will see.

[@JarOfRats]

On the primary hull, what if they're not notches, but additional material added around the original structure?

[@cjs1710]

I’m fine with them using a “slightly” different design. The Connie appearances post TOS were fan service/Anniversary episodes, i.e one offs. You wouldn’t do a series with the original Connie design nowadays. What you would do is keep the proportions, lines and size exactly the same and just reskin it. The Gabriel Koerner version is a great example of this

[@cjs1710]

Lady Wanderer I see where you’re coming from, but I don’t think I explained myself properly. The detailing on the original Connie wouldn’t stand up on modern screens. I would have much more preferred it if the producers had gone the Axanar route to federation design. Exact same lines just better detailing. In a mirror darkly and trials and tribulations both used a cgi version of the original Connie which you couldn’t have a fleet of ships looking like in 2017. I love the lines of the Connie it’s the detail on the hull that wouldn’t stand up. Hence why the producers of DSC couldn’t just kitbash a load of TOS models together. I have to admit that although I like the designs of DSC ships I don’t think they are era appropriate (apart from perhaps the Gagarin)

[@cjs1710]

That’s probably not a much better articulation of my thoughts but best I can do pre 8am 😆

[@cjs1710]

Lady Wanderer that’s what I was trying (in a very roundabout) to say. I’m happy with a few minor modifications like extra textures

[@paulscott2037]

Here's a radical thought. That wireframe is from the Disco's Starfleet databanks, and that design is a pre-cage version of the Connie and how the ship originally looked. By 2255 the Enterprise had been refitted, but the Defiant was still in its original configuration.

[@kevsha6797]

Man I just get so tired of the complaining. I'm just so happy there is a trek show on TV again.... behind a pay wall or not. I love all the new designs, the Klingon ships a bit less but i still lime them. And to how the constitution class looks, I would prefer that it fits in with the stylistic choices of the show. Because if they pulled some bullshit where they went from a futuristic bridge with touch screens and displays everywhere to black panels with jolly ranchers on them like they did in enterprise i would lose my shit... the original ship as it is works really well in the original series, take it out if that setting and it looks goofy as fuck... Just let it go, and let the design fit in with style of the show, because lets face it if it were the other way around the hardcore fans may watch it, but thats about it.

[@colanitower]

Amen to that.

[@kevsha6797]

CaptainB1B I am not a general audience fan, I assure you that I am as hardcore as you but I'm not going to get in a who is a bigger fan debate. Star trek needs to evolve to stay relevant and interesting, there are certainly things about the show I would change but so far I think they have done a fantastic job realizing the franchise in a more modern way. I don't jump ship because something isn't gritty or dark, in fact I have never jumped ship on trek even when it sucked. You self proclaimed "true fanbase" think that trek is bad if it is dark or gritty... you sir are the problem, becuase if the show was the way you wanted then it may make the true fans happy but you will guarantee that there won't be any new viewers because no one will care about the show.

[@shinjofox]

Another possible reason for changes could be a lack of proper materials and/or building materials in the mirror universe at the earlier time when the Defiant was in Enterprise. If you took a modern cell phone and handed it to someone to rebuild it in the 1960's they wouldn't be necessarily able to replicate the tech immediately they just don't have the materials , yet.

[@captainronphillips]

Suppose the cutaways in the saucer section is actually like the TMP refit and it's just a newer bulkier spaceframe built on top of the old one?

[@FMChimera]

Adding the kink in the pylons is actually stupid. Not "stupid" as in an insult but stupid as in an engineer would have to be stupid and incompetent to take a structure known from the start to be an extreme design to serve a specific purpose and chop it in half. THEN stick something in it and then still hang the large, heavy, dangerous things off the end of it that the previously strong straight line supported... Here's what needs understood: The ToS era ship was near perfect. You want to show it in HD today? Add some detail and leave it alone. Add some of the things Roddenberry wanted to do. Then leave it alone. NOBODY working on Trek today ahs the skill or vision to presume to change such things.

[@tamlynailsa7616]

It'd make sense, as the Defiant became an Empire warship, to reduce weak spots; namely the long thin neck and slim nacelle struts. This led to them shrinking the Defiant's forward profile to produce a smaller target and adding extra armour around the neck and struts. Also, proportion-wise, the saucer looks to me like the rim may have been reinforced with extra armour for potential 'ramming' manoeuvres and extra protection for headlong assaults. As for the 'classic' look of the TOS Mirror Enterprise, it could merely mean that with Empire superiority, capital ships were less prone to any meaningful attack and so the classic lines of the ship that won them the war struck a note of fear in those who had been defeated... Win by strength, rule through fear.

[@scottgardener]

This also means that the TOS-style Discovery concept from a few weeks back could be seen as more than a thought experiment, but as a counterpart in our original Prime universe.

[@dr.sommercamp3435]

Thank god it isn't the J.J.-Price!

[@stararnold]

I'd love to do a fan art drawing of this. Also, there's room for the possibility of an IDW comic one-shot explaining the transition between where the NCC-1764 was at in ST: ENT's "In a Mirror Darkly" and where it ended up in ST: DSC even in terns of design, but we'll see how things go.

[@Doppleganger1983]

regarding "mirror, mirror" that episode was before the "tholian's web" so technically what kirk experienced is a timeline that no longer exists making everything after the ent episode "in a mirror, darkly" an alternate timeline (but then ds9 makes that theory a bit shaky unless it's a different mirror universe). all the specs are in the ships database meaning they could use that information plus borrow a phaser array and a few torpedoes for reverse engineering and once that was done, naturally the defiant would be altered to look different from standard constitutions in order to appear more threatening, having extra hull plating that could double as armour because the empire would want their flagship to stand out and immediately cause the enemy to panic.

[@ChaosFS]

I honestly think that it looks like they stuck some sort of armor/hull plating all over the ship, with those openings in the saucer letting the original saucer stick out and use sensors or extra torpedo launchers or something. If that's the case, then that would explain the shape of the neck and why it looks so squished in, since the armor would be adding thickness to everything and make it look like both hulls were closer together. From there, it's not that hard to figure out where all the other little mods came from, either. No getting around those nacelle struts, though, although that angle of the nacelles strongly suggests a refit.

[@hansolo4017]

I believe that its called a visual reboot

[@lukeirot]

I believe its called the star trek fan-base AKA cancer

[@hansolo4017]

no need to be mean my friend, im simply stating that is what they are doing i did not intend for any opinions to be given in my comment. Sorry

[@poseidon5003]

Yes the haters ARE a cancer. The haters wanted a rehash of TNG style music and effects. They didn't realize that it died with Enterprise.

[@SciFiFan2012]

Han Solo Han, the SW ship designs are 40 years old now, would you have the same sense of Yes, this is SW!! if they changed it or any other iconic ship with a "visual reboot"? If no, why not? What's different between the two but 10 yrs of model making/filming/effects?

[@WaybackTECH]

Addendum to my other comment - Sure also looks a lot like this design concept done back in 07' - trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/JLee-AprilFool-TrekXI-Ent-1280.jpg In addition to that, this Enterprise concept's saucer looks an awful lot like what we ended up having with Discovery.

[@darman12able]

I actually kind of like that design. Not necessarily as a constitution class but I could see it as a post dominion war federation dreadnought if you replace the nacelles with tng style ones and make the turrets fire pulse phasers like the defiant

[@Spirit250-D]

Star Trek discovery takes place in the prime timelines with a rebooted Visual style. Trek fans have a hard to understanding that.

[@vivomega3937]

Sc i got a term just for your kind. You are std trekkies In other words you are all fakes.

[@vivomega3937]

You are a funny one sc, when you wake up and stop sucking on STD's engines you will see how wrong you have been.

[@Spirit250-D]

That being said, I hate this redesign. There are things that I like, but over all it's shit I think. I love discovery design, I thought the original from phase 2 and their trail was shit. There are good and bad designs in any era.

[@Spirit250-D]

MonkeyZorr that is not what the creators of the series have said, and the evidence in the show itself suggests otherwise. As I said, this is a Visual reboot of Star Trek. Much how Halo, or the alien franchise. The continuity is the same, however the look has changed. I mean, the timeline matches pretty well. I think Trek fans have a hard time excepting this because of all the history involved. I get it, and if it helps you sleep at night thinking this is a different universe that's fine. I'm not cannon lord. Your cannon can be whatever you like, but until it's explicitly said in the show, or by the writers directly or indirectly. This is the prime timeline.

[@Argonautx66]

The Rateau Brothers and it abhorrent

[@vapsman88]

I love when in the middle of someone talking a commercial cuts in.

[@terrywest111]

NO. I'm sorry. You do NOT fuck with the design of an icon. TOS already established that the Mirror Constitution class was nearly identical to it's Prime Universe version. This better not be an accurate wire frame of the the ship. I too speculate that this could be modifications they made to keep her running after 50 years.... but I just feel sorry for the Defiant. I am hoping that this is just a bad wire frame of the ship. I can understand there being SOME additions to the Mirror Defiant, because she would be quite old. But I doubt that it would bet that radical. See? This is what I'm talking about. Why do this? If you wanted to do whatever the fuck you wanted in a Star Trek show why not go and make a show set in a point in time that we aren't familiar with. Like the future. There you can come up with new ships and new designs, like they have and nobody would say shit. You would have a little more leeway... maybe you'd have to base some designs of your newer ships on some of the newer canon ships from the TNG era... but that's okay. That's what some of the new Starfleet ships look like. But don't say you're making a show set in the TOS era in the Prime Universe and fuck with the established designs.

[@Nick871203]

remember this is a visual reboot, the prime universe is the discovery universe now... the defiant will be based off discovery visual reboot. besides it'll look horrible out of place if they try. just look at ENT and that spin off episode.... but that was acceptable since it was a one off.

[@terrywest111]

I'm not sure. So far, I'm seeing evidence to support that it's more than just "a visual reboot". There are some things about the universe that don't exactly match the Prime. This on top of the fact that this isn't supposed to be a reboot of anything. This was said to be set in the Prime Universe. Period. And the Prime Universe as I believe was stated by the studio is all the 5 shows (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOYAGER and ENTERPRISE) and all the movies up to the first J.J. movie. That Universe according to them exists as depicted in the canon. (Plus, I think the original Constitution looked awesome alongside the modern ships in the Enterprise episode)

[@Nick871203]

ah its the nostalgia im telling you lol. i was never really a big fan of the starship design in TOS. but thats 1960s for you, i wasnt around that time, i was brought up with TNG. but if you like the nostagia ofcourse you'll love it. its kind a love letter to the fans when they put it into Enterprise... but it will not work with discovery. this is a full blown new series, with a new visual appearance, if we start seeing TOS ships, its going to look rediculas lol. altho that wireframe does bare some good resembelance tho. we'll have to see how it looks hopefully next episode.

[@terrywest111]

I would've appreciated it more if they had just come out and said it from jumpstreet about Discovery. But instead they made it sound as if this was going to be in the same continuity as all the 5 shows that comprise the Prime Universe. They can still "mend the fences," so to speak if they just say it.

[@SciFiFan2012]

Nick871203 if you think TOS era designs don't belong, that blame TNG for "Relics" that shows a TOS bridge and DS9 for showing the TOS Enterprise, interiors and exterior, and the uniforms! Star Trek itself made TOS canon, so Discovery shits on it, but it's ok, it's "only" a visual reboot, right? BS. CBS lied from the beginning. Even the three JJA films got the uniforms correct, and they are in an alternate timeline!

[@Jonno92100]

Credit to the DIS team where it's due; I honestly don't mind the wireframe, I mean yeah it's a visual reboot but at the same time, it makes a lot of sense that the Defiant has gone through many refits, making it more militaristic for the Terran empire. I'm actually surprised it's not even less recognizable. I mean imagine if the original 1701 Enterprise was still in service during TNG era? It would look drastically different after 100+ years of service.

[@S1nwar]

i like the uss europa style cutouts in the saucer. they are subtle and feel fresh. should look pretty awesome in discovery metallic texturing and lighting.

[@jakegearhart]

I just want more Orville..

[@vivomega3937]

Same. It is the most ST show on at the moment.

[@futurerandomness1620]

Agree with you that the protrusions on the struts are probably mega phasers ( phaser lance's). The cut outs on the saucer the positioning looks like it would be good for torpedo tubes

[@jaspervlogt3843]

another theroy for the saucer...this ship, has the Spore Drive, meaning just the outer hull of the saucer would be spinning

[@CommandLineVulpine]

Here's a quick thought. What if the Defiant IS the palace?

[@leandrocosta3709]

One thing is for sure. That wireframe model would've made a nice Connie prototype or derivative vessel (maybe a bit smaller) in a cannon universe.

[@barrybend7189]

I think they put USS Defiant as it was recognized by the discovery's computer and overrid the identification codes with the prime database version.

[@SilentStaff]

Notice how this Defiant has the dual antennae prongs on the deflector dish. I think that's indicative that this USS Defiant has been constantly 'modded' by the Imperium so that it's still operational to keep up with the existing fleet, since Discovery-era ships have dual pronged deflector dishes. Also you guys mentioned an interesting thing about the Palace that Stammets talks about. If you put what he says in his hallucinations in context to the Defiant, I think that makes the USS Defiant THE Palace, which is interesting if you extrapolate this from what happened in the mirror episode of Enterprise, where Hoshi becomes the new Empress and tells Earth to prepare to receive instructions etc etc. ;) From a design point of view, that would open the way for the DIS production team to pretty much go crazy with the USS Defiant design, allowing it to depart from the classic Connie look, since it'll make this not just any ol Connie from the future/past/timey-whimey, but the USS Defiant standing unique in every respects as 'the Imperial Palace' where the faceless Emperor rules from ;) Heh! Imagine if the Emperor is Georgiou! that would make her a descendant of Hoshi Sato maybe?

[@forrestpenrod2294]

As someone who lives in proximity to the original model of the connie in DC, for people claiming the vessel doesn't hold up, you couldn't be more wrong. If the original model was given a 4k CGI model it would look brilliant just like it does in real life. Now maybe this is a wartime refit? The connies were refitted temporarily for the Klingon War, given bigger phasers, and then restored after peace is made with the Klingons back to their TOS form?

[@inky4763]

Somone said it already, but the truth is with both JJ and Discovery, they just didn't really care, or possibly didn't really like Star Trek. No one fucked with star wars in this way. No one said this looks too 70s. The ships the costumes everything is just the same in the new films. I don't mind subtle changes but in almost every way Discovery is a reboot, and not a very convincing one at present.

[@vivomega3937]

iirc jj said he ether hated ST or at the very lease didn't like it. Hell jj even said he went to Gorge L for how he should handle ST and he told JJ to make it more like SW.

[@dr.sommercamp3435]

They didn't "fucked" with "Star Wars"?! What?! Remember the Prequels?! Done by George Lucas himself!

[@SirBroadsword]

The prequels are shit, true enough, but they they maintain strong aesthetic continuity with the original trilogy. I strongly believe that audiences would've accepted Discovery had it used the TOS aesthetic and billed itself as retro-futuristic. And failing that, Discovery's aesthetic would've been tolerable (certainly not good but any stretch of the imagination, but tolerable) for a post-TNG show or a self-styled alternative universe like that of JJ-Trek.

[@inky4763]

Yeah I was referring to the new JJ star wars (I'm not a fan anyway so I don't really care). As for discovery, I agree that had they just made more of an effort to maintain cannon and style things at least in a way that clearly resembled tos (I actually think JJ did a better job than discovery even with all the flaws of those films) things would be better. There are actually other much more serious problems with discovery in my view but anyway hey ho.

[@TheReviewBoardGaming]

The new Defiant looks like it had stuff added on. Especially the saucer. It's perfectly possible that this THE Canon Prime Defiant from TOS just heavily built up, added onto, and refitted.

[@cdname47]

Also, if that ship became the flagship of the earth empire in the mirror universe, you better believe they'd pull it apart and put it back together again to understand how it works, as well as tool it up with even more weapons. That wireframe could be full of repaired battle damage and extra cannons for even more warfare. Who knows how many refits it had between coming over in the Enterprise era and the Discovery era, either for upgrades or just repairing the damn thing every time the rebels get antsy. With the relative power levels presented in the Enterprise ep it could be the Mirror universe version of the Death Star which would make it a hell of a target for all the rebels to unite to try and take down

[@friday6448]

Two possibilities: 1) they took this from the rebel datacore and so this is a result of a hundred years in the mirror universe. 2) they took it from their database and this is what the constitution class looked like ten years before, and they do a refit to what we know. I don't have a problem with either of this

[@tokumusic4078]

In the original wireframe picture, the "cutouts" don't go all the way over the top of the saucer. The first picture clearly shows the starfield cutting off, there is total dark space in the gaps. Like from a top down view the saucer would look normal.

[@YourGeekNews]

We REALLY don't like the redesign of the Constitution, but the timeline doesn't bug us. Once we considered that the Terran Alliance tends to be more war-like scavengers and less about scientific advancement. So It allowed us to assume it took 100 years to scavenge/replicate the Defiant in the Mirror Universe, while those 100 years were being used for scientific research in our universe. Plus, if the chief engineers are murdered off by their underlings as much as the captains are, here'd not be much experience in the engineering department.

[@watcherzero5256]

I feared this as soon as It was mentioned, the other issue is the relative scale of Discovery and Defiant, are they going to scale the defiant up so that it looks bigger than discovery (when its smaller according to the official scale)?

[@edsalisch4322]

Could it be that the chunks out of the saucer be due to some battle damage?

[@richardajoy79]

I do like the design. The fin on the secondary hull could be actually the fin on the other nacelle, just the angle playing tricks. Would love to see William Shatner commanding the ship as Emperor George Samuel Kirk.

[@GoMango1969]

Aside from the fin on the secondary hull, the design IS beautiful. But it is NOT the Defiant that passed through as it looked when it passed through.

[@Argonautx66]

Jonathan Dusett after 100 years, Defiant would've been scuttled, it's major components scrutinized, replicated, upgraded to be placed into modern more advanced empire vessels. The only place you'd most likely find Defiant would probably be in a museum

[@andrewdoughty9740]

I think that weird fin is supposed to be on the port nacelle. On closer inspection the nacelle seems incorrectly placed and scaled on the model. Samuel could probably tell better but it seems too large and close to the secondary hull, like they didn't compensate for the new strut design on the unseen side.

[@faltomjager5823]

I think that the problem with the saucer can be explained by adding pieces onto the saucer, leaving some windows in place.

[@BastianNoffer]

Just look at the full image of this wireframe in the scene and on the top left it clearly says "U.S.S. Defiant" and not I.S.S.. Which probably means that the diagram displayed is from their "prime" universe Defiant pulled from their ships database.

[@cedfiredarkrider8447]

Bastian Noffer But the Defiant was originally from the primeverse. Not mirror

[@vivomega3937]

LW, That got me thinking, would cbs and its disgusting std be seen like that mirrorempire as fakes and frauds and the true trek fans as the rebel groups that want Gene Roddenbarry's Trek to be seen as the real deal?

[@marleymcleay9228]

the strut implement is interesting, I wonder if it is weaponry. It makes me wonder how that design can influence the powerflow to the nacelles. I recall the line Decker makes in The Motion Picture "the new design channels phasers through the warp engines" or something of the like. Those protrusions would seem to be a literal interpretation of that line lol.

[@vilod]

Having heard that this show will be canon at the end leads me to believe that this is what a Constitution class does look like, right now. I guess that something this ship, the Discovery, does effects the time line and in fact, change history to coincide with everything we know to be canon. In short, let's all wait and see...

[@thribs]

I suppose we should all be grateful that they didn’t get confused with the DS9 one.