Trekyards EP330 - Prime Enterprise Comparison (TOS/Disc)

[@doczolfer3523]

I don't know what the rest of ya'll think, but i love the original TOS design.

[@michaelwaugaman1579]

Me to I like the design but just don't fitbin pre cage era

[@doczolfer3523]

Then why redo it at all? they could have started the show looking like it belonged in the era without showing the Enterprise at all. now i don't mind the design, but i want it in its own universe, they could end this debate right now just by saying that the Discovery universe is not prime timeline, but is part of a completely different universe that shares many similarities to the prime timeline just more advanced looking.

[@doczolfer3523]

Yes it is a work of fiction, but its a work of fiction that only works if there is continuity between all eras, now it is true that star trek has been plagued by continuity issues all throughout its history, starting with the klingon redesign in TMP, but it was something that was corrected later on with that episode in Star Trek Enterprise that showed why the Klingons looked the way they did in the original series, and its things like this that Discovery has thrown out the window, resulting in all the fans being divided over issues like this.

[@mr_e_monkey8836]

I agree, Doc Zolfer. For all the differences, they can't beat the original, classic design.

[@richardched6085]

+Doc Zolfer The TOS Design easily beats any redesign!

[@LazarusRemains]

I love the design, but that isn't the issue. The real controversy is that the current controllers of the franchise insist that DSC and TOS are one and the same timeline/universe. This stands in contrast to the previous 50 years in which the visual constancy of Star Trek: The Original Series was affirmed repeatedly in DS9 and ENT.

[@johnmiller7682]

Well, it was affirmed twice. That's not quite "consistently".

[@johnmiller7682]

Again, fan service. You need to get over it. I'll make you a deal. I'll get on board with knocking every little detail, when you can explain how Zefram Cochrane got to some weird planet and didn't recognize the name "Enterprise" or the federation, or anything about the future. Oh, and how did he become human?

[@johnmiller7682]

Actually he was from Alfa Centauri. Humans met them when they first started exploring the galaxy, with non warp ships. You do realize that humans were exploring other solar systems, before warp drive, right? You do realize that "First Contact" was a retcon, right? That's part of your "50 years of continuity and history".

[@johnmiller7682]

I suggest you re-watch metamorphosis. Kirk: Do you have a first name? Cochran: Zefram. Kirk: Zefram Cochran? Of Alpha Centauri? The discoverer of the space warp? And don't forget the book Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology. It was, in fact, canon, until it wasn't.

[@johnmiller7682]

Really? OMG! Do all the mental gymnastics you want. One of the only, truly consistent things in Star Trek, has been its inconstancies.

[@absolutebs3360]

The Federation has a SERIOUS temporal incursion problem if this Connie goes down as is in cannon history. I like it on its own...but wedging it into the prime cannon time line is a job i don't wont. Nice vid guys.

[@codeviper8665]

I think that this new Constitution Class is objectively good, and better than the Kelvin Timeline Constitution, but I don't like it as much as the original.

[@harrisonrothacher2250]

I agree I absolutely LOVE the redesign, but it just doesn’t fit into cannon and this shouldn’t be regarded as such.

[@keirfarnum6811]

Are those bronze cannons? Or did you mean, “canon?”; which is short for, “canonical.”

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

I'm a little confused - on the one hand Trekyards accept that DSC is a visual reboot (which in turn affects certain aspects of pre-existing plot, character etc, in effect rendering the show as it's own narrative continuity). However, many recent vids also try to see how DSC would fit into TOS continuity. This is akin to shoving a square peg into a round hole - they were never supposed to fit together - am I missing something?

[@orionslaver432]

When Discovery was first announded CBS made a big deal about if being set in the 'prime timeline'. They backed away from that claim over the course of production, but it really stuck with some people. Now we have people performing all manner of mental gymnastics to try to fit DSC in with the rest of the franchise when, quite frankly (and in my opinion), they shouldn't bother because it doesn't.

[@psal8715]

The new connie design is one of my favorite, they did a good job from a looks stand point. If the came out with a remastered versions of TOS, DS9 and Enterprise with this in place of the old connie design i would buy it.

[@OpenMawProductions]

No....

[@saintwildfirerecords]

I don't dislike the new look objectively, but why cause the controversy at all when you can write stories on the other end of the timeline? After nemesis, where you can have trek alums cameo their tng, ds9, voy characters. They can create new Canon without jumping on the hated prequel bandwagon, and truly differentiate themselves from star wars. They can create new species from explored worlds without boxing themselves into a corner with established canon. It's like intentionally trying to build something with handcuffs on. Why restrict yourselves and simultaneously cause your story to not fit into your own lore seamlessly? Doesn't make sense. It's like they don't know a prequel isn't a requirement.

[@WaybackTECH]

I guess I really don't care as much about scaling as you guys do. I care more about proportions. Scaling in Star Trek has always been controversial since TOS. They made stuff to look good and proportional on camera, scale wasn't always the end all factor in everything done but I feel like now days if it isn't to exact perfect scale that's all we hear about for 30 minutes. The old Enterprise wasn't the right scale for the number of people and equipment on board. That's been discussed on this channel many times also. Now that people understand scaling as it relates to modeling in a computer, scaling is more accurate now days than it anyone cared to make it in the past with ship models and camera angles. Yes that means a lot of ships if not the whole universe would have to be scaled up but, when something isn't done right in the first place, that's what happens.

[@erichelvie8524]

Well done SC you have just proven why your opinion is worthless, stooping to a grade school level by insulting one of the hosts of the channel picking on his last name, Real mature. Please do us all a favor and disappear.

[@EddieDexterStewart]

Bravo, WaybackTech! #Math

[@SeraphArmaros]

What are you, twelve?

[@My-Name-Isnt-Important]

Star Trek actually didn't have scaling issues until DS9, when CGI began to be used heavily. A physical model never changes, CGI is different from scene to scene. Once the Defiant on DS9 was fully CGI, not only did it change scale, but various parts of the ship actually changed their appearance. The Defiant front Deflector and impulse engines visually change various times through the series due to different people working on the CGI model of the ship.

[@ravissary79]

The Smoking Dog from wgat I understand the reverse is true. The models weren't made with a certain fraction of scaling in mind, but instead certain sizes were always chosen based on how to manipulate the model and shoot it for argument detail resolution. This is why the defiant was inconsistently sized, because the ships it's shot near were made for their look, not made to be relative scale to the defiant. This is why defiant isn't tiny compared to Klingon cruisers and warbirds. Once those models are made they don't change them, whereas the scale of a cgi model can be changed at will, either for effect, or for scale accuracy.

[@mikep1592]

Regardless of what anyone says, Gene Roddenberry had a totally different USS Enterprise in mind when he created Star Trek. This is more along the lines of where he was going. The budget restraints however only allowed him to give us what we have seen in the past. Of all the re-imaginings of the USS Enterprise, this is one sleek, gorgeous, and visually appealing ships I have seen in a long time. As always, please continue making it so.

[@TMAC_burninator]

I can understand the visual reboot thing. I even think it looks good. I just wish they'd be honest about it. Calling it Prime universe isn't defensible for many reasons. I still think if you wanted a visual update that stayed true to the constraints of the Prime universe, you could do it. Seems like the producers/writers just didn't want to work within those constraints.

[@Arlyon9999]

S C don’t forget the ridiculous bridge with nobs and tapes. Not to mention the nonsensical bleeping lights interface.

[@SeraphArmaros]

Post Voyager is a sill growing Federation where wars can happen, and you don't need to alter canon to set a show there. If you're going to set it in the history of a franchise you need to respect that franchise's canon.

[@SeraphArmaros]

Except STO isn't canon either.

[@CaptRobertApril]

I think I'm in the perfect position to say....WHAT THE HELL HAVE THESE BARBARIANS DONE TO MY SHIP!?!

[@darthkurland]

CaptApril Your ship? Don’t forget that you are not the captain anymore, Bob. Christopher Pike took over from you and James T. Kirk from him.

[@CaptRobertApril]

(stepping into character for a bit) Ahem. I was there when they started assembling the primary components in the San Francisco Fleet Yards. I took her through her first shakedown and her first five years. I don't care what Chris or Jim did later, she'll always be MY ship. :D

[@LazarusRemains]

I'm not particularly bothered about whether or not the franchise changes, I just think that from a moral standpoint, if they were ashamed of the original design, or wanted more artistic freedom, they should have done an honest reboot, rather than invite the controversy. Why show the TOS Enterprise at all? Why not leave it's appearance to imagination? What they seemingly want is to have their cake and eat it too. To have the freedom of a reboot, but also claim they are 100% Orthodox. Where fans should be your biggest advocates, this Orwellian double-speak has alienated people needlessly. A full reboot might have allowed people to appreciate DSC on it's own terms. Or else, a simple nod to TOS by re-skinning the Enterprise with detailed light-catching paneling, but leaving it otherwise unchanged, wouldn't have sent casual viewers running. In TMP, they explicitly wrote the visual change into the script, and subsequent designers/encyclopedists like Greg Jein/Mike Okuda treated TOS as a historical document when working on TNG, so this breaks with a very long precedent.

[@SeraphArmaros]

And they should rightfully expect backlash for doing so. I'm not sure why you're admitting they can destroy the franchise if they want but fans should be upset about it.

[@SeraphArmaros]

Strawman much? The future of the franchise is destroyed unless this chapter is written off somehow, but its legacy will live on.

[@SeraphArmaros]

If the Drekkies wanna call this poopsmear on the legacy of a great franchise "Star Trek" I'll be around to tell them it's that in name only. Let's be honest, this barely has a passing resemblance to Gene's vision.

[@orionslaver432]

"Why show the TOS Enterprise at all?" As a crutch.

[@txrwauy]

I agree with your statement - it's a desperate attempt to try to re-engage with the fanbase. I fear that they will just bugger up the Enterprise and her crew just like they have buggered up everything else they have laid their grubby little mits on, possibly by making them a bunch of incompetent idiots in need of help from "mikey spock". I really can't bear to watch what will happen.

[@mrdot1126]

other then the bridge.. i can live with this updated version, this is not jarring, as the Kelvin Movie versions are....

[@USAgent-gk8es]

MR Dot1 At least the abrams enterprise is in a alternate reality not forcibly in the original timeline like STD.

[@briankruse3584]

I just like the TOS look

[@darthkurland]

If you guys are talking about a war-time variant of the original Constitution-class, I would recommend taking a look at the episode of “Star Trek: New Voyages/Phase II” titled “Enemy: Starfleet.” The USS Eagle was turned into a warship by this space pirate named Alersa (Barbara Luna).

[@darthkurland]

“Well, this is a new ship, but she’s got the right name. Now you remember that, you hear?” - Adm. Leonard “Bones” McCoy, TNG: “Encounter at Farpoint.”

[@nefdsnet]

It's very nice design work. Let's simply count it as a fan version and agree there was no Trek since _Enterprise_ ended. And let's hope the franchise will be back in the hands of caring/competent/creative people again some day... 😢

[@Jack_Stafford]

I would like to hear discussion about comparing this Enterprise to the design of the Defiant they created which was in many ways closer to the original Constitution. Just another example of how the show isn't even consistent with itself, showing ships of the same class with _vastly_ different Construction, for no particular reason. They could have shown the Defiant diagram as being consistent with the Enterprise, or since it was just a computer readout they could have made the wire frame model exactly like the original Constitution. Either way since they are the same class of ship, *they should have at least made them consistent to each other.* This thing is such a mess, it is impossible to even take it seriously when something so simple as this inconsistency and the ridiculous scaling that is impossible when you take into account things such as windows and airlocks, basic simple detailsthey aren't able to get right or consistent from episode to episode, not even comparing to other Star Trek, comparing to *their own New Canon.* So even if you accept Discovery as Canon. We already now have in consistencies within that and the whole thing just falls apart by pulling on the simplest thread... Shame that this debacle will probably lead to many many years before anyone attempts another live-action Star Trek show because of the profound way this was mismanaged.

[@katherineberger6329]

When a ship design has a long production run, things change over time as technology advances. For a real-life example, the destroyer USS Lenah H. Sutcliffe Higbee (DDG-123) is the newest Arleigh Burke class destroyer. Compared to USS Arleigh Burke (DDG-51), the Higbee is longer by ten feet, more massive by 2,000 tons, has a very different superstructure, a higher bridge, a helicopter hanger, more missile cells and an improved gun with a stealthier housing. You can still recognize the two ships as belonging to the same class, but they are very different in detail. Similarly, the USS George H.W. Bush (CVN-77) is a very different ship than the USS Nimitz (CVN-68). Ship classes change over time - observers often place ships with similar characteristics within a class into "subclasses," which many Trek fans have adopted as well - for example, the differences between USS Venture and other seen Galaxy-class ships. At worst, Enterprise and Defiant belong to different subclasses of the Constitution class. The change of the pylons, as well, resolves a serious problem in the original design - because of where the pylons enter the hull on the straight-pylon design they impose severe restrictions on the size of the shuttlebay and its supporting facilities, whereas because the angled pylons enter the hull much further up the slope, they allow for a far larger shuttlebay, larger hangars, connected cargo storage and handling facilities in the secondary hull, any number of additional benefits. Defiant is further called out as having been modified over her century in service in the Terran fleet, as well.

[@saladinbob]

This is why Kurtzman needs to go. He's not making mistakes, he's making conscious decisions to ignore and retcon fifty years of history, which is one of the reasons I don't like STD. The guy is a cancer at the heart of Star Trek right now.

[@wayneharding6594]

I could not agree more the guy is a total hack, even more so than jj and that is saying something.

[@giftheck]

That's incorrect - CBS confirmed they own the full rights to the original ship designs used in the TV series, including the TOS designs, and had no mandate in place to alter the ship. The mandate came from within the production itself.

[@saladinbob]

The fact that you're wrong aside, Mark, the wider issue is that this is the problem you create for yourself with a prequel. CBS's ownership of the Star Trek rights, and more widely the split between movies and TV has been an unmitigated disaster for the franchise. For Star Trek to move forward, attract new fans and not alienate long standing fans, it needs people who both understand and respect the IP. Kurtzman has neither.

[@Jack_Stafford]

S C I honestly don't know why you come here too comment when there are many websites out there I'm sure they don't care anything about Canon or continuity. It's sincerely like you enjoy the fight rather than the enjoyment of camaraderie among fans of a common piece of entertainment. Do you really enjoy fighting a lost cause every day? To the vast majority of people here it is a lost cause to try to conflate this newest Star Trek it duration as prime or Canon, so wouldn't you enjoy your time or with people with your point of view? Rather than constantly arguing and irritating those of us that share the opposing point of view? It's obviouslyokay not to agree on everything, but you've been a relentless, condescending, sarcastic and generally negative presence regarding this specific issue for about a year as far as I can estimate. That's an awful lot of negative energy to have to exert for unknown insurmountable cause...

[@SeraphArmaros]

I'm guessing you loved The Last Jedi too...

[@Blade_Runner_79]

While I like the new design, it's so much better than the JJ versions, there is a scale problem that was brought up in a previous video. They have sized it so that the shuttlebay is about the same size as the bridge which is a problem. On the original they are in correct proportion to each other so either this new Enterprise has a cavernous Bridge or a tiny tiny eBay that only fits two shuttles parked very tightly together. But definitely, absolutely, it is far superior to anything in the new Star Trek movies and I think is a beautiful design and just needed maybe one more pass to make sure those details were right, and I'm a firm believer that Windows dictate the scale above everything else so I'm not buying the upscaling issue trying to retcon errors and filming. The windows are the windows, the doors are the doors, any airlock or Docking Bay is going to be roughly six feet and there's your scale that should be applied to everything no matter what the studio says or what is shown on screen. Imo!

[@PsychoStreak]

Overall I don't dislike this design. I do dislike the reasons for it's existence. In profile it 's too close to the TMP refit. While the neck is too short to me, making the angle of the front and rear edges the same makes sense, as does making it thicker. I don't like that enormous impulse deck- spoils the lines of the saucer. I really don't like the angle at the edge of the saucer. It's too severe. The secondary hull is too barrel shaped, and the fantail is too stretched out. The lip aft of the shuttlebay doors is pointless to me, as it doesn't seem big enough to land anything on except maybe a workbee, but the only reason to do that would be if the doors couldn't open, but then you'd have to beam the workbee out, which again, makes the lip pointless. They're not going to strap cargo onto it like the roof rack on a car, so why do it? My biggest issues are, like a lot of people, are with the swept pylons. I could have lived with thicker pylons or ones with the inexplicable slit if they were straight, or just slightly swept back, but this is far too close to the TMP version. I know it was a last second change, but it yet another thing they didn't need to do. Then there's the nacelles. Taken as a whole, they're OK. but they look like a pair of sonic screwdrivers strapped to the nacelles. No need for them to be tapered, ZERO need for the clamp looking bits around the bussard collectors, and the aft tips look, like so much else in STD, like they were the way we'd expect them to look, but someone got a bug up their butt about stretching it out, and stretch they did. The nacelles also look bloated and bulky and too big relative to the ship. But now I realize this isn't the TOS Enterprise, just updated. It's the TMP version downgraded to look older and simpler. In that light it works. Of course, (and this is where all the people who seem like they're willing and eager to erase TOS from existence) looking at it that way requires believing that the TOS Enterprise, and the one seen in The Cage and The Menagerie never existed, all for the sake of making Discovery's hastily converted Kelvin timeline designs and scaling fit into the prime timeline. That's just too much to a lot of us to accept, particularly after all the other bad decisions they pushed through just to get product out there the could charge us to watch. People keep bringing up that a lot of this is in the spirit of what Gene would have done if he could have, and gleefully parade concept drawings about like they were gospel. They're ideas that never made it on screen, and nothing more. These same folks will also take time out of their day to crap on concept art like the McQuarrie design that Discovery is based on. I think its a bad design for a hero ship, and was glad it never went anywhere until STD. It's a bad basis for designing the hero ship, and the results bear that out. The first version was ok, but instead of complaining that the nacelles should look somewhere between ENT and TOS and not boxy, went on about how stubby and short they were. We know what happened after that.

[@rhrpov916]

(9:02 into the video) -Is it me, or do those impulse engines in the Discovery Enterprise, with its fins, reminiscent of the Excelsior Class? And while I'm at it, isn't that bridge dome light huge when compared size by size to the TOS? [If you already touched on these issues, I apologize.]

[@peccatumDei]

It's better than the JJprise, and better than the Defiant wireframe in season 1, but it's a reimagining, and that's that. Unless I hear differently from John Eaves himself, I'm going to assume that understands that fans wanted this ship to be as true to the original as possible, and that the Producers forced the changes we see. Television executives and most television Producers don't understand Science Fiction, or science fiction fans, and this is a good example of how they fail. The changed Enterprise isn't a fatal flaw, but it certainly breaks continuity, and damages immersion, that suspension of disbelief that is so important. To me, it's like filming a remake of Bonnie and Clyde, with Glocks instead of revolvers, and Corvettes instead of a Ford Model 18. One could argue I suppose that it was the original series that misrepresented the 23rd century, not the current series, but that's a very weak argument when everyone knows that it's all fiction.

[@peccatumDei]

Okay, Gunsmoke then. Or how about a Back to the Future 1.5, all about Doc Brown on his first trip to the future, but the car is a McLaren instead of a DeLorean.

[@peccatumDei]

Of Course I'm aware. I chose them because you had a problem with my Bonnie and Clyde analogy. The analogies are not perfect, but the point is, when you take an established story, and then throw in something that doesn't fit, it damages the entire story.

[@dotmatrix7383]

Honest question though, if we ignore the Cage Enterprise model, does this model make more sense? This could be the original configuration, and sometime in the next 10 years, it's refitted into the TOS configuration we see in the series.

[@dotmatrix7383]

They cannot really reboot TOS. What's shown in TOS, TNG, and DS9 is still canon. I can accept the show as a separate entity, but the producers still claim this to be prime canon.

[@Arlyon9999]

Lady Wanderer Nah, I’m with SC. You need to get over it. It’s a beautiful modernized Enterprise using technology the TOS producers wished they had at the time.

[@chrissonofpear3657]

I just treat it as a third separate timeline by this point. Temporal Cold War, Borg and Nero timetravelling can't fully explain the Klingons now though.

[@Arlyon9999]

Just one of many who disagree with you.

[@Cathoray2012]

When you can't get enough of Star Trek, there is "TREKYARDS". Thanks for what you do guys. I always loved the original design of the Enterprise when I first saw it on the little screen so many years ago. And then when Star Trek: The Movie came out, I loved that version as well. So this new one having features from both styles is a fine looking ship. I look forward to seeing it animated.

[@icey_matty]

I like this disc design it looks like the ideas before what it became on tos version I think it looks like its nx plating before an upgrade

[@darthdraco3052]

Question, am I wrong do the three lights around the bridge look like something that is around the sensor dome on the bottom of the saucer on the refit?

[@grayman404]

Is everybody just forgetting that Kirk's Enterprise was all ready 20 years old when he got It In TOS??

[@xanderguldie]

I really love the original Connie but the new one makes more sense actually

[@xanderguldie]

MonkeyZorr I didn't say it looks better I said it makes more sense. Nothing can replace the original Connie.

[@Nebula1701]

Should have had the TMP Refit up for comparison as well

[@ravissary79]

I have to say, I like this ship, though I wish it had the white iridescence of the motion picture and JJ 2009 ships had... such glorious white shiny perfection, like a billion dollar naval yacht.

[@telecleez]

I like it. I like how it seems like a cross between the original and the refit.

[@Allegheny500]

Copper color and hull paneling did not bother me as an upgrade could have been adding the gray color as a material coating over the original hull, sort of like vinyl siding a house. As for scaling... is it me or does the turbo lift at the back of the bridge look the same size on both?

[@oldatarigamer]

I like hearing you guys say "visual reboot". I think this Enterprise is as good as TOS fans could have hoped for. I don't see why STD cannot be Prime and be a visual reboot as well. Its not like going from Christopher Reeve to Nicholas Cage wearing the Superman suit ;)

[@scytheseven9173]

What I want to see is a comparison between these two ships and the Constitution Refit.

[@stevenewman1393]

🖖😎👍Very nicely well done and very well informatively executed and explained very well as always guys indeed, The Discovery Enterprise looks more like a refit than to the original Enterprise for sure👌...

[@bradleycalvert8630]

The scaling doesn't bother me as they never give numbers during the show, so I can ignore any behind the scenes scaling information as that's easily fixed by hitting the backspace and then typing in the correct number. This is a cool re-imagining that I would have loved to have seen in 2009. Updated but also respectful to the ships origins, with a touch of love for the Connie Refit splattered in there. Well done, can't wait to see this thing kick ass alongside the Discovery.

[@kenminick]

I wish they'd stop saying "Prime timeline." It's NOT. It's just not. Just say it's a reboot already.

[@michaelwaugaman1579]

Just wanted to let u guys know I love the show I am such a star trek purest it's so nice to see someone else who loves the TOS conny as much as me ty for what u do and keep it ip

[@tamasmasable]

I know you guys can’t get the CG model from the show for pictures but do you think you will do a review of the Crossfield Class?

[@lukerope1906]

One biggest strengths of Star Trek ship designs is the incredible continuity of the ships. The designers took great pains to make each ship look and feel like it was the logical upgrade to the previous. The ships of Discovery breaks that continuity, hard. Visual reboot be damned, you don't just retcon 52 years of the Enterprise lineage.

[@jdmarx28]

Can the split in the pylon help with atmospheric entry? Any way you can compare Gabriel koerner's 1701?

[@MrXon]

Love the new look, modernized to the newer Star Trek, has some similarities to the NX-01 which makes sense. I'm one of those who believe the timeline changed a bit because of First Contact, with the Borg and crew of Enterprise E changing things, why the NX-01 exists and is similar to the E since Cochrane saw the ship with his own eyes and helped design the NX-01. The Enterprise XCV-330 ringship (from Motion Picture painting) no longer exists and replaced by the NX-01 in this post First Contact timeline.

[@David_B_Dornburg]

They can claim all They want this is the "Prime Timeline", but that's BS. It's "Their Timeline", whatever They want to call it, but it's not the one that runs from TOS to VOYAGER as far as I'm concerned. I'm going with the Temporal War during Captain Archer's era screwed up the original TOS era as shown and what we're left with is this DISCOVERY mess. That way it can still be 'canon' technically.

[@David_B_Dornburg]

Even I'm not that harsh about it. By adding in the Temporal Antics from the "ENTERPRISE" series, it certainly could be a slight off-shoot of the Original show's timeline. It gives me anyway, enough wiggle room to explain all the visual changes and even the "Cloaking Device" shenanigans. YMMV

[@FishDS9]

Enjoyed this review! I noticed Stuart's volume was lower than Samuel's. Keep up the great content!

[@RetroBerner]

They're not gonna evolve this into the TOS version. TOS is dead.

[@darthkurland]

MonkeyZorr watch your mouth! “Star Trek” is NOT dead, nor will it ever die! As long as the fandom exists, the voyages will continue. “Boldly going where no one has gone before...”

[@joshuaperrine2019]

You guys are overly dramatic.

[@The2ndQuest]

Scaling aside, picturing the evolution of NX -> NX-Refit -> DSC Connie (as a substitution for "what we were really seeing" in TOS/classic Connie appearances) -> Refit Connie -> Excelsior, etc actually works really well, visually. Arguably better than NX -> NX-Refit -> Classic Connie -> Connie Refit. As iconic as classic TOS designs were, they were always a bit of a bump in the road in terms of visual design for the franchise as a whole, since many details (strut angles, lack of nacelle grill lights, etc) were born out of production limitations of the time and don't align as well with the designs set before and after its time period. At the very least, this could retroactively replace just The Cage incarnation of the ship (since it was a pilot, etc) so you'd only have to do one post-DSC refit to make it look like a classic Connie (again, scaling issues aside) instead of doing unnecessary back-and-forth "war refits" and the like.

[@JosephWiess]

Everything changes in 50 years. I have a feeling that if the technology had existed in 1950 to 1960, Gene would have approved of this design. It looks sleeker and more defensible. We don't really have to guess, because he redesigned the Enterprise for TMP.

[@SJgolf891]

Joseph White was clearly speaking from a out-of-universe perspective. Plus, the TOS ship couldn't realistically be 'refit' into the refit Enterprise. It's basically a way to explain away a visual change...but it's an entirely new ship if you really examine it

[@maybetoby]

I live by one simple rule: "never put more thought into it than the showrunners." That's why the scale and look of this Enterprise doesn't phase me at all. I love this design. Never liked the TOS version, this is on my Eaglemoss display of Enterprises. This is my Enterprise (No bloody A, B, C, D, E, or F) lol

[@lesliewilson2122]

Is there a trekyards where you detail the differences between the TOS 1701 refti and the 1701 A?

[@alexpalmer9101]

I love what they did with the Enterprise. They made just enough changes to update the design so it would fit in with the visual effects and the show of today while still keeping the original design mostly intact. One of my favorite parts is the secondary hull. The Kelvin Enterprise's hull looked underdesigned, especially around the shuttle bay. Here, it looks perfectly proportional to the rest of the ship. I hope they make this into a model kit.

[@videosforbruce]

Here's another question. ... How close side by side, ( ignoring scale, the skin, replace the nacelles and deflector dish ) is the NCC 1701 USS Enterprise from Discovery and the NCC 1701 USS Enterprise from the first 3 movies. Would be interesting to see just how close they might be

[@IfWeShadows]

It must be exhausting to have to constantly try to make 1964-66 designs done on no budget fit with 2018 production values. Discovery works so much better if you compare to TMP designs and onward instead of pounding a square peg into a round hole.

[@orionslaver432]

Design has nothing to do with budget. You can design whatever you like for nothing. Budget only affects the quality of the model you can build. The original '66 Enterprise model was designed by Matt Jefferies, who was a flight test engineer as well as an artist, whose design work was heavily influenced by his knowledge of aviation. The budget of the show led to the original studio model being somewhat lacking in close up detail, but considering it was being shot with 60s cameras for 60s television screens that wasn't seen as a problem. Today any 3D modeler with talent can do a faithful but updated Enterprise, and in my opinion the design really holds up.

[@CybershamanX]

Sure, it works better. That is, if you ignore all of the efforts to maintain the look and aesthetic of the original series' eras throughout all the other series pre JJ. Every time the original ship appeared in other the series it looked like it did before. The TOS has (or rather _had_ ) its aesthetic, the TMP era has own its and the TNG era has its as well. STD is just too hooked into JJ's vision and now they're trying to force its aesthetic on the entire timeline. If they had just picked up sometime after Voyager this wouldn't have been a problem. Almost _anything_ about STD wouldn't. But, whatever. They're dead set on doing it, so... :/

[@jetfowl]

Then maybe you ought to ask the producers why they set this series in the Prime universe at roughly the exact same time as the TOS. You want the TMP era ship designs, you set the series during the TMP. It's not hard. It's not rocket science.

[@JasePow68]

While I like the new design (and the sizing makes more sense, in terms of housing 430 crew), it's an unnecessary change. The producers obviously did it for licensing issues. In giving Trek production to people who don't care about canon, they've ruined it,... I will never accept STD as canon.

[@marleymcleay9228]

The Angled struts were practically introduced in Enteprise with the NX-01. of course if we got that fabled 5th season we would have seen the NX01 re-fit. and the first real introduction of angled struts from a secondary hull. So this design here really fits that lineage of design.

[@lucideandre]

Actually, about the window thing. I was watching DS9 and the Runabouts actually had a blast shield to close the window. They could just say they had that stuff already, and for Starships. It’s not complicated tech or anything like that, to have a closing blast shield in/behind a window.

[@ricknick5318]

Could the size increase b armament and once the armament is removed it would reduce the size of the ship all the way around

[@logiticalresponse9574]

Oddly i never noticed before but is that a species 8472 bio-ship in the intro

[@johnjohns1654]

I almost wonder if the definition of the saucer, along with the bigger section for the impulse Tech, actually houses a Spore drive that was added after Discovery started showing promise with it and during the war

[@VEN0M415]

For me the only way I can accept starfleet ships going from the rustic look to the flat white TOS look is that starfleet made new advancements in armor tech and applied it to its fleet go protect them from future enemies. Maybe the new armor had changed the materials used which in turn changed the color as well

[@Samantha_was_here_first]

When Sisko's Defiant got destroyed in DS9, they transfered the registry number over to a sister ship. The same fate may occur here. The new design, like it or not is a good example of updating. They could have done worse. IThis enterprise does look like a prototype version of the original, so my hope is they distroy it in season 2.

[@orionslaver432]

The old Enterprise was designed by an atual aviator. It's a clean, sleek and elegant design inspired by the aesthetic of the aircraft that broke the sound barrier and, frankly, I think it holds up despite its age. This DSC Enterprise has been designed by a CG artist who was told to make it look like the Entperise, but different. I think the lack of inspiration shows. It's far from the worst design in DSC so far (those Klingon ships, ugh) but I honestly think the original is the better design.

[@creepyrobot23-50]

Guys. The turbo lift hatch doesn’t have to line up with the bridge, it could just be any turbo lift. No reason the bridge’s lift has to be the one that leads to the hatch.

[@dylanlewis3038]

The Refit is my favorite Enterprise design, and one of my favorite sci-fi designs in general. The Discovery Enterprise has many elements of the Refit, which I like. I’d like to see the Discovery Enterprise design with either the TOS grey hull or the Refit white hull. It almost looks like another step between the TOS and the Phase 2 designs. Like it would go TOS, Discovery Design, Phase 2, and then Refit.

[@Phillguy]

I think the Captain is right about the struts. If it had straight ones this would be an excellent update and be perfectly acceptable as the Original Enterprise.

[@dotmatrix7383]

Why is the ship bigger? Do we have a source for that? It seems to me the two should be the same size.

[@ericreese7792]

It would seem like a bit of a runt compared to all the other classes in Discovery if it weren't. Not really what you want if you want it to still be seen as THE prestige assignment of the day. Sure, they probably shouldn't have made the Discovery classes as large as they did, but what's done is done and ship's dimensions are rarely terribly important (or even consistently depicted) anyway.

[@power543]

The ships designer and lead production designer for the show have both confirmed the upscale

[@dotmatrix7383]

Ah darn.

[@AdamFaulknerVideos]

I mean, I love it. I much prefer the shorter neck and swept-back struts, but I probably wouldn't have gone with the exelcior-esque bit at the back of the saucer.

[@GamePar]

Will you be reviewing the 'Bonus Scene'?

[@armymatt83]

You're just going to have to accept that this series is not prime timeline regardless of what the producers say. Its more like a alternate reality version of the prime timeline were everything is almost exactly the same but just a little different.

[@GabrielGABFonseca]

I think it's a very cool design. It feels like a true homage to the Connie, Refit and NX. My only quarrel with it, is my only quarrel with Discovery: if only CBS were to came forward and publicly admit: "It is a visual reboot", I'd be at peace. That, of course, doesn't change the fact that this is a killer design. However did it made a good job.

[@grantalbrecht4577]

I think a good portion of what is giving it a older grungier NX look, is the very obvious high iso noise and the visible pattern of the vinyl it was printed on. Need to see it in equal quality as the Defiant model.

[@darthkurland]

Like I said before, now that we’ve seen the new Enterprise from different angles, I’d like to see it rendered in CG and try to replicate something like the Original Series opening sequence. But whose voice should deliver the famous monologue, “Space: The Final Frontier?” I think you guys at Trekyards should be the ones to decide. The way I see it, there are three possible deliveries of that monologue: 1. William Shatner, 1966: the delivery that appeared at the start of the entire Original Series. 2. Leonard Nimoy, 1982 or 2009: another very famous delivery of the monologue, which was used at the end of the films. 3. The Kelvin Cast, 2016: used at the end of “Star Trek Beyond” as the Enterprise was being rebuilt. 4. Shatner, Nimoy, Walter Koenig, Nichelle Nichols and George Takei: various recordings of their voices from different times/sources edited together as seamless as possible. Including the background sound effect of the Enterprise whooshing past (vocal effect by Alexander Courage) and the Original Series Theme Composed by Alexander Courage (Arrangements by Gregory Smith and Jeff Russo.) Basically, Greg’s start of the theme which transitions (using Courage’s whoosh effect) into Jeff’s adaptation of the main theme.

[@andrewperkin7192]

The disocerys enterpise is to me a perfect up to date model. I think lore die hards need To understand that disovery is a visual update to the franchise, that's aiming for modern audiences. With them using Thier bigger budget to show off what star trek can look like If they used the original enterpise I think most audiences wouldn't be happy So I'm glad they managed to make a Desgin that suited canon and the update look Remember star trek is not a period piece it's a vision of the future I still love the original series and the original ship But I understand were in 2018

[@PJsFirstChannel]

i no wat you mean i also dont no how to spell or use puncutationee neether

[@Trygvar13]

Every other series stayed true to the TOS version, which is perfect in my opinion. In fact you look at the Into Darkness deleted scenes you will notice that admiral Marcus has a huge TOS Connie model in his office hanging from the ceiling. Even JJ stayed true to the Connie... This new version does not suit canon except in CBS' twisted mind. You say it is aimed at a new generation and I have no problem with that. Where I do have a problem is when they keep saying it is set in the Prime timeline and that it is not a reboot. My kids (16 and 12) are the new generation but they grew watching Star Trek with me. They don't like Discovery. In fact they stopped watching after the 4th episode and I can't blame them. Don't get me wrong. I think the ship looks great. It's just not a TOS Connie. Why would most audiences be unhappy that did something right?

[@andrewperkin7192]

Patrick Marchand on the other side I work along side people who never seen anything star trek and keep up with discovery and tell me how great the effects are and how good the story's are Yh it's not the deepest trek but it can be in time But star trek is not a period piece .

[@andrewperkin7192]

Gareth Fairclough no ... Having the original enterpise wouldnt suit modern Desgin styles The tos look is very much the 60s Not 2018 Why can't people seem to get over that

[@michaelkeha]

Pu3r 360 Because this is the prime timeline as in the cannon the Enterprise looked like what it did in ToS there is no if ands or buts that's exactly what it looked like changing something because muh visual update is a shitty excuse more so when the design looks like a very lazy chinese knock off you don't see star wars changing how a cannon ship looked when they revist it years later in a different movie no matter how much more budget they had also quite frankly for a ship from the 60s in design the original enterprise still looks better it looks more sleek more futuristic and better built.

[@porko882]

How do we know its bigger?

[@rhrpov916]

While using the phone to illustrate how technology gets aesthetically simpler and SMALLER, nobody has considered the TV, which is simpler but ever growing. (Maybe in the future, it will be wall-sized.)

[@Seccc]

Looks better than the TOS version to me, I don't have any sentiment with the original, I like this new look.

[@Hiluxtaco]

It looks like something that is a gap between the Excelsior and the Refit Enterprise..

[@mikep1592]

Forgot to mention that the saucer section looks a little like the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-B because of the way they designed the impulse engines.

[@giftheck]

I'm starting to think that if they say the Enterprise is significantly larger than TOS, they'll explain it by pulling a 'Defiant' and saying that they just transferred the registry and name between ships.

[@michaeljohnson7063]

i would love to see a side by side comparison of the Tos Enterprise next to the TMP refit. And see how much of the original remained. The silhouette remains, but everything Tos is replaced. Traditional naval practice of a refit typically means key systems are upgraded. But the overall hull of the ship remains. When the Tos refit to TMP happened, everything, including the hull/shell of the ship is lost.

[@Morality124]

May want to try a comparison of the Disco-prize with John Eaves' original NX-concept.

[@ssjbattleship1425]

I’m probably going to get a lot of hate for this, but I kinda like the discovery Enterprise, it shows her with a different build and looks like what she was in her early days

[@Divertedflight]

The look over the last few decades to give the surfaces of Star Trek spaceships the impression of lots of little section/plates of metal welded together like a present day warship, is one day going to look as dated as the rivets and bolts of 1930's Flash Gordon rockets. The more seamless surface look of the 60's Star Trek will probably look less dated and more modern when our large scale production methods take a leap forward in technology.

[@TheXev]

In regards to the "refinement down" or "squashing" of the design, I imagine these design changes were made purely for the aspect ratio of televisions now being commonly 16:9. The Enterprise was originally designed for a 4:3 style TV, so some of these changes were likely done to make the Enterprise "fill the screen" better @ 16:9. I have no real bases for that but it is just my thoughts on the matter. As for the original ToS model, let us not forget that the model was designed to be "upside down" from what we know it today, and likely many of the design choices were more in line with that in mind. I have to wonder if any changes were made to the model because of the decision to "turn the model upside down" as we know it today and throughout all series, but perhaps some of the ToS models intent is still rooted in its original orientation? Overall, I think it really nails the point home that DISC is at least TRYING to respect the prime timeline, even with though the Enterprise has been visually upgraded.

[@TwinPeaksIndustries]

Same thing for the transition from the D to the E

[@Pulprat]

I think the original looks more advanced. Technology supposed to make things simpler not more complicated. Look at the stereo systems we had in the 70s and the 80s and look at what we use now. Definitely can say that thing's got a lot simpler.

[@darthkurland]

My only real problem is the color scheme of the Enterprise from DISC. I prefer the original silvery paint job from TOS than the copper version seen on “Discovery.” I would ask the VFX team that rendered it to use the original 11-ft. model at the Smithsonian for color reference for its next appearances on “Discovery.”

[@lucideandre]

The more I think about it, the more it seems like Discovery, in much of its visuals and tech, would perfectly fit in if there were no TOS, or TAS. Between ENT and the films. I like it. A lot. But I’m just saying it connects Enterprise to the movies better than Enterprise to the Original Series.

[@DavidNicholson101]

Honestly, if you look at the original and compare it to the Discovery version, the original looks like it could be a refit of the discovery version. Smaller more efficient impulse deck, redesign warp nacelle pylons, new paint job, I could see the original being a refit of discovery version.

[@Carwyn.Morris]

I look at the new design and for some reason I keep wanting to add an extra deck to the neck height. I love the design but it's just a bit squished. I will say though for me the TOS E always rules, it's not supposed to be the sleekest, fastest, baddest ship in the fleet. The Tos E always looked like it had real mass and weight a heavy beast of a ship something that needed a big turning circle. The Enterprise was a work horse not a race horse.

[@SkyStarNova]

The ship is not the problem, its the series itself. To me that ship is the same size as the original, even the JJprise. If the STD producers get their shit together, season 2 will be worth buying.

[@CaptRobertApril]

This needs a follow-up comparison with the two pilot versions on either side, especially once we know the scale of the Discoprise.

[@boydmerriman]

I believe that the swept back pylons are very important because straight ones would be far weaker structurally than the back swept versions. I'm sure had real engineers had looked at the E before the Cage, they would have suggested backswept pylons before building the original ship.

[@knightmoritz1895]

you know how modern CGI is made? You make the model and scale it to fit the scene. Upscale or downscale. It happened with USS Vengeance and it happened with Ent-E in First Contact. I recently realised that it wasn't the defiant that got downscaled, it was 1,5 or 2km 1701-E. Why? to make an imposing, dramatic entrance. Cinematography differs from real world because it manipulates emotions. Every filmmaker will choose a better emotional response over size-continuity.

[@chriskenth1192]

Scaling is an issue, but I like the visual reboot. Modern Special effects guys should be able to evolve designs as new tools become available to them.

[@Durakken]

Hey don't say if they hate std they hate the Enterprise design. I despise std, but I like the Enterprise model. The problem I have with it, as I said before on a video here, it makes me mad because they've shown that they can do well but decided not to on purpose.

[@thelifedyslexic]

I don't find the scale issue of new Enterprise a big problem, as the USS Defiant's and Delta Flyers scale where often all over the place. Scaling is something Star Trek has always has a loss approach to. I think the TOS Enterprise design would have held up fine in DISCO it worked great in A Mirror Darkly. But if they had to redesign it this the best redesign I seem on screen.

[@lawrencehaguewood5857]

The TOS version represents high tech ideas in 1964. I’m fine with the 2018 version. BTW the side view new is reversed... intentional or oops on your part?

[@Maxvla]

The original picture had it flipped to read the registry correct (the port side (or left side) of the ship). To compare to the original (starboard side), they flipped the picture so you were seeing the 'same' side.

[@CrazyChemistPL]

Well, that's how JJ-prise should look like. I'm in the minority that actually really likes the JJ-prise but I have a big problem with its nacelles. This version seems fairly similar in general shape to JJ-prise but fixes the engines. Well, to be fully honest, JJ-prise's saucer, neck and secondary hull with these nacelles would be a perfect modern Consitution class for me.

[@CrazyChemistPL]

You have a right to your opinion just as much as I have to mine.

[@chuc98]

I really like the updated design and agree that this is how the ship should have looked in the JJ movies. Having said that, I wish the design wasn’t so squat looking, and the secondary Hull seems slightly undersized.

[@EditsandStuff350]

Based on the windows, I think your scaling is right.

[@RailfanJason]

What's the actual size difference supposed to be? New version is beautiful, but I don't see how it logically fits in the Prime timeline.

[@darthkurland]

USS Enterprise NCC-1701 Constitution-class Original Series Design by Matt Jefferies “Discovery” Update by John Eaves Launched 2245, San Francisco Fleet Yards Crew Compliment: 430 max. “To Boldly Go Where No Man Has Gone Before...” Based Upon “Star Trek” Created by Gene Roddenberry “Star Trek: Discovery” Created by Bryan Fuller & Alex Kurtzman (C) 1966, 2019 CBS Studios

[@Blade_Runner_79]

Michael Kurland 2019 canceled due to botched concept, requiring a subscription to watch it, and a resounding rejection and repulsion from fans who expected and deserved a series that paid proper attention to existing Cannon and was written in an interesting, consistent, and intriguing way. Which will be followed probably by decades or never having another Star Trek series because they will use this as an example that it isn't popular enough to make a series. R.I.P Star Trek on TV.

[@darthkurland]

BladeRunner I actually spoke to the people at CBS All Access to voice that problem of cutting off the rest of the Trek Nation. I actually used the words of Spock to make the point: “The Needs of the Many outweigh the Needs of the Few, or the One.” I even pitched an idea for Season 2. It’ll still debut on Sunday night at 8:00pm on CBS All Access, but later in the week, like Wednesday night, then the Network will show it. That way all Trekkies can have their cake and eat it, too. The person who answered definitely said that my idea made sense and he saw the logic in my proposal. He said he would forward the proposal to the heads of CBS as well as the teams behind “Star Trek: Discovery.” That’s proof that they are still willing to listen. If possible, we might even find out when Season 1 will arrive on Blu-Ray and DVD.

[@darthkurland]

BladeRunner Already corrected that date.