USS Archimedes - Full Breakdown (Lower Decks)

[@coreross]

This ship feels like the federation rebuilding the fleet after the Dominion war, something they build fast to get the backbone back to strength that was originally filled by the Excelsior class's lost in the war

[@sethcourtemanche5738]

Well the federation lost hundreds of ships warships and what not to jem'hadar Battlecruisers and battleships

[@shanenolan8252]

@@sethcourtemanche5738 probably thousands of ships during the war . They lost a third of the combined fleet at cardassia prime final battle.

[@xXxLegolas007xXx]

Makes sense. After the dominion war you have so many damaged and destroyed ships of Miranda and excelsior classes that could be easier and faster refitted and upgraded to strengthen your fleet while you develop new ship designs and begin Testing and so on.

[@sethcourtemanche5738]

So those two classes were wrecked the hardest the excelsior class is ok and the miranda is absolute shit

[@KertaDrake]

I could see this being a testbed for the Sovereign-class engines that also happened to work well enough to be put into production as a discount Sovereign class with simplified build that can be mass-produced while the Sovereign remains the small-production super-ship of the time with all of the best parts and tech.

[@willroberts3991]

The ship designs on Lower Decks have been orders of magnitude better that any other recent Trek offering. Love this ship as well as the Parliament class. Can't wait for the Eaglemoss version of both.

[@grimm_comics]

Yes.

[@seemeslegit3765]

I quite like the USS discovery but I can see why others dont, I think the rest of the ships from Discovery did fall flat a bit though.

[@willroberts3991]

@@seemeslegit3765 The Discovery and the Europa are solid designs, my only complaint of the two would be that they look too advanced for the era.

[@lilkris3008]

Yes unfortunately for now hero collector has ended its ship series. I’m still waiting to hear anything on the rocianante and Donnager that was supposed to drop spring of this year

[@MonCappy]

@@willroberts3991 I never really liked the Discovery's design (specifically its exterior). It just clashes too much with the established Star Fleet aesthetic. I do like the design of the ship's interiors. My favorite ship design in Discovery is actually the Ship of the Dead. I liked both its interiors and its overall design. It's likely not a universal opinion, but I found it to be a pretty standout design. The Star Fleet ships seen in the Picard finale were particularly bad designs. Which is a shame since La Sirena was a pretty sweet design. I suspect that production issues were involved with the uninspired design of those ships. At least I hope so. The Romulan warbirds we see in Picard are also underwhelming but not quite as bad.

[@DerCharacter]

As someone who is a huge fan of the excelsior, seeing this for the first time was so amazing!!

[@iamoctonate]

I've been dying to see an Excelsior in action again since I guess Endgame? So seeing this beefed up new "variant" (even though its a new class) made me so happy.

[@dembones5005]

Looks like an Excelsior that went through a refit and 'came out looking all Soverign-class' to my amateur eyes. :)

[@thethirdchimpanzee]

YES!! EXACTLY!!! :)

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@thethirdchimpanzee It's also basically ST: Online's Excalibur-class crossed with the Vesper-class, too.

[@chloekaftan]

it makes sense though, its probably originally an excelsior class that had a refit after taking severe damage, and the refit just happened to use technology from the sovereign class because the sovereign is the most advanced ship at the time of this ships retrofit, i wouldn't be surprised if they made an entirely new class based on this refit tbh.

[@ZS-bg7jo]

Gotta say I love the full 360 spin they did in the show after it got hit by the shockwave. The differences really stand out there. I could see why the Excelsior frame design would continue. It may be the right size and layout for the mission profiles it would be on. Like the F15 or B52. 50 and 70 year old (respectively) designs, but very different planes from when the design was new. Sometimes you just get a design that is right.

[@KertaDrake]

It's got the bulk to take a big hit and survive, the short and narrow profile to make it less of a target from the front, and likely has entire shipyards already dedicated to making most of the parts for the frames and would only take some mild changes to the production lines to shift to the new class, while all the fancy internal computers and stuff are likely mass-produced for all ships and can just be added in with ease. Just slap the new Sovereign engines in so it can keep up because a fleet is only as fast as it's slowest ship!

[@terranempire2]

It’s kinda like the Startrek version of the Airbus NEO or Boeings 8 series. They take a proven overall airframe and then add the new engines, new wings, new systems. It’s scaled up to meet the modern wants yet keeps the “If it ain’t Broken”

[@XTINFILM]

Sigh. Has everyone forgotten the Ambassador class was built to replace the Excelsior class? Then the Galaxy after that? There are already three generations of "new Excelsiors!" The only one that should continue to be produced/upgraded is the Galaxy, as it is built for a significantly different mission than the Sovereign, and with the Dominion and Borg defeated the Galaxy class may be needed more than the Sovereign class.

[@terranempire2]

@@XTINFILM *Eye roll* Well sorry, yet clearly Star Trek doesn’t work like that. Fact is We SEE Excelsior class ships in canon well into DS9 along side Ambassador and Galaxy class ships. Clearly this ship is Excelsior based so how? Ambassador class it always seemed to me was meant to make a new niche in the fleet as a means of keeping the peace well the federation poured resources into the Klingon mission during the lost era. When Starfleet was put on a very tight R&D budget even regressive. Well the bulk of the heavy cruiser mission remained with Excelsior. We see no new ship classes clearly from that era. Ambassador class was probably not built in significant numbers before Nebula class emerged leading to Galaxy. Galaxy was meant for 10 year missions. Deep in unknown space after the successful Kitomer mission. Galaxy though was cursed as it was the right ship at the wrong time. With the short lived peace of the 2360s followed by the strife of the 2370s. Sovereign emerged as Starfleet was now moving to a defensive bias to deal with all the brush fires. So where does this come in? Starfleet post war needs ships for a number of missions the Excelsior served well in peace, well in war and was aging out. It needed a workhorse so If it ain’t broke. Updated with tech from the newer ships.

[@SuperGamefreak18]

@@XTINFILM the Excelsior design is considered retro so it makes sense for the design to come back

[@Riceball01]

A simpler idea based on real life is that they took the base Excelsion hull, made some mods to come up with the Obena. This is sort of like what the US Navy did to created the Ticonderoga class cruisers, They took a Spruance class destoyer hull, lengthened it, and gave it a new superstructure. This is probably how they got go the Obena, to a degree. It's clearly based on the Excelsior hull but modified because they already know that the basic hull design works so modfiying would be quicker and easier than coming with something from scratch. But I doubt that it's upascaled though. That doesn't really work in real life. You can't simply take a frigate and scale it up to make a battleship, that doesn't work. What works at one size won't necessarily work larger or smaller And scaling something up means that you have to completely rework the deck layout unless you want decks that are now 2 or 3 ttimes the size of the original.

[@terranempire2]

@@Riceball01 trek has upscaled a number of ships in the past but generally I agree elements of this ship seem to line up with the established class. My original comparison was aviation where airliners have plugs inserted to lengthen the fuselage. The saucer and drive section may have something similar.

[@randybentley2633]

A reason perhaps for why the bridge area is so large is that like the Probert Ambassador class the whole bridge assembly may detach into an independent vessel. It would certainly explain why there is an impulse deck attached to the bridge beyond more specific impulse capacity.

[@katherineberger6329]

My theory on the Archimedes' design is that Starfleet had a bunch of Sovereign-class propulsion systems at the end of the Dominion War, but also the Sovereign is kind of harder to build (because its design is so sleekly integrated and packaged), so Starfleet turned to a scaled-up version of the Excelsior hull to attach those propulsion packages to.

[@Twitchguy]

I’m with ya but more of the thinking it’s ships badly damaged in the war yes but still during the war that just haven’t been withdrawn yet but just star fleet just using salvage parts they can use to get the ships in the fight no matter what ship the parts came from. Like taking the frame of a modern car because they’re available in good supply but throwing a body of a classic car on top because you can’t get the original frame for that car anymore thing also maybe but still I loved the ship! Do more more! Like a defiant in more sovereign style

[@daedalus25]

It's just smart use of modular parts. Starfleet has always used the same nacelles on multiple ships. This was evident from the very beginning with the Constitution-class ships. Even the refit Constitution and Miranda from the movies had the same nacelles. Then the TNG era had Galaxy-class, Nebula-class, and several other classes all using that nacelle. It would make sense that the Sovereign wasn't the only class using its particular nacelle.

[@ReaverLordTonus]

I'd like to think the Excelsior's design has been around over 100 years and not necessarily the ships themselves. It's an efficient and versatile design so why stop building it? The Obena is just the latest version using up to date engines.

[@Jack_Stafford]

Just like the 747 has been around for about 50 years, but not the same planes they keep building new versions using the same essential design.

[@XTINFILM]

@@Jack_Stafford 747 production will end in 2022, as improvements in turbofan technology have made 4 engine jets obsolete. The "new Excelsior" is the Ambassador class, which itself is obsolete by two generations.

[@SmartSmears]

McMahan did make a note that the Execlsior Class is still around, they probably already wrote one into season 3

[@jackmorris7755]

To be honest, I wouldn't have been surprised to see an Excelsior or two in Discovery S3. lol

[@benn454]

Not unusual to have ships and aircraft serve for decades. The real Enterprise served from the 60s to the 2010s. The B-52 has been flying since the 50s.

[@effervescence5664]

It feels like they had an Excelsior secondary hull left intact after the Dominion war and just used Sovereign warp nacelles and a new design saucer. Then added what the needed to the secondary hull as it lines up quite well on the side profile to the original and would explain how they built up the fleet in a timely fashion after losing so many ships which is exactly what was done during and after ww2 with ships/aircraft/tanks and other vehicles to bolster forces quickly.

[@MonCappy]

My head fanon is that the USS Archimedes design is of a ship that is intended to fulfill the role of the Excelsior class. Basically, its class designation is the direct 24th Century successor to the Excelsior's design. My thinking is that we got to the Archimedes design after a number of revisions to the Excelsior's design as new builds were constructed over the decades and new technology incorporated into it. My thinking is that there are like 3 to 5 different builds of the Excelsior's class over its lifetime (analogous to Boeing's various revisions of the 747 design) until technology reached the point where a new class was required. At which point we get the USS Archimedes. My head fanon is that the Obena class is a post Dominion War or early Dominion War design. Basically, my thinking is that its primary mission is military in nature, with the primary purpose being a combat platform. My guess is that subsequent to the Dominion War, I could see these ships being outfitted with more scientific equipment and labs once the peace is establish (in this case adding the capability to make them better platforms for exploration and research without sacrificing combat capability).

[@thiagoolive28]

The first time since Discovery that Trek shows us a new very beautiful new "canon style" ship.

[@tra-viskaiser8737]

I have to agree... all the nu trek std ships just feel wrong. Its all wrong in the jar jar abrahms timeline. Idk why they can't make a decent ship design. Almost like it should be on a different scifi series.

[@Jack_Stafford]

Canon style, definitely. Unfortunately this show cannot be Canon just based on the fact that it is a comedy cartoon. But it could be a show that Canon characters watch in universe.

[@MechaTrekAD]

I am definitely with Capt. Foley on this one. Never a big fan of the Excelsior, I grew to like it a bit more with the Enterprise-B version but this is where its at. I really like the Obena Class. Nice overview gentlemen!

[@Salgood]

Going on window and bridge size I think the Archimedes is a smaller ship, like half the side of the B. They throw the impression by marking out more rows of windows on the saucer, but the area on the B with stipes isn't the full thickness of its saucer while it is on the Archimedes

[@katherineberger6329]

Depending on you you scale the Cerritos, the minimum size for the Obena-class is about equal to the Excelsior (450 ± 25 meters), and the maximum is OMGWTF huge (~1300 ± 25 meters, literally the largest Federation starship we've ever seen, though the D'deridex-class Warbird exceeds it at 1,410 meters). Cerritos has an 8-deck thick saucer and each deck including interdeck crawl spaces is about 4 meters (2.5 meters clear height + 1.5 meters crawl space) so my scaling based on saucer thickness to saucer length in the MFD is about 300 ± 25 meters for the saucer and 250 ± 25 meters for the nacelles, so somewhere around 500 ± 50 meters for the whole ship put together, but I've seen estimates as small as 300 and as large as 750 - the latter being Eaglemoss' seriously ridiculous overestimate. Also, Cetacean Ops is somewhere around 6 decks deep. It is a SERIOUSLY ridiculously high space for how narrow it is. No wonder those belugas are pervs - they're probably BORED!

[@jonuiuc]

I get this same feeling. Like maybe they wanted to produce a lot of cruisers quickly, say during after/dominion war, so they start with old standbye Excelsior to speed development, keep the proportions and layout to save on warp geometry engineering work, update the nacelles, adapt a modern saucer layout and put it together to the smallest scale needed to match the minimum performance required. Then churn them out. Sorta like a modern Federation attempt at the mass production of the Galor. Maybe they started, but never fully went this route or changed their mind, so only a few of the production run is out there.

[@katherineberger6329]

The bridge module is the one place where the scaling cues get messed up - all of the scaling cues EXCEPT the bridge module indicate a ship about on scale with the Sovereign, but that bridge module indicates a ship on-scale with the Constitution; except that would make the scaling to the Cerritos not work!

[@Capt.Marco-Hawk-L.L.A.P]

I like the Excelsior class a lot, I also like the Obena class I'm wondering if the Obena class is bigger than the Excelsior, Obena class neck does look great. I always like the sensor extensions on the Enterprise B Hull section makes the ship look far better than the U.S.S Excelsior, i built a model of the U.S.S Excelsior NCC2000 with the sensor extensions as i saw it as a great upgrade for the ship

[@defies4626]

The Obena class is MASSIVELY bigger than the Excelsior class, easily a good 200-300 meters larger.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

@@defies4626 Although I've often felt the Excelsior was bigger than she looked, considering deck height, etc - perhaps even over 533 metres. But we are approaching Sovereign-scale with the Archimedes, I suspect.

[@larqven0192]

The Nova class had the 'Sovereign' class - esque nacelles as well. Since that class was clearly released at least a year or two before Voyager was launched, it wouldn't have been odd for this ship to have been developed about the same time. The big, oval insignia on the primary hull does suggest a pre-Dominion War construction as well. It might also be that the development, construction issues and so on delayed the ship's release as well? That might explain the older insignia on the hull?

[@boxtears]

Excelsior pylons always bothered me, the L-shape felt like a step back from the diagonal pylons of the Constitution so it's great to see the Obena-class adopt diagonal pylons.

[@Jack_Stafford]

Agreed, also the Galaxy class had that silly 90 degree bend in the struts. Always thought the Excelsior would look better with traditional struts and here we get to see it! It makes sense that you would want the most direct pathway from the warp core to the nacelles, and that dictates a straight strut.

[@KertaDrake]

Indeed. The L-shaped pylons always seemed like a deliberate attempt at being inefficient. Running those conduits from the warp core through an L-shaped bend has to involve some kind of ridiculous unnecessary waste of resources to make the contents of those pipes change direction in such an extreme manner! Straight pylons seems like the most logical choice in all cases!

[@blairbrown4812]

The L-shaped pylons were presumably designed to withstand the greater stresses tremendous accelerations involved with transwarp drive. Just as the the wings of the Douglas DC-3 used a new "multi-cellular, stressed-skin" construction, resulting in a wing of legendary strength and safety,the pylons on the Excelsior-class was a major part of the ship’s longevity,as the struts were likely quite stronger,and thus,longer-lived than expected.

[@chrissonofpear1384]

The Archimedes is also based maybe on the USS Ingraham blueprints...

[@retromillenium]

I just briefly looked back at the DS9 season 4 episode, "The Way of the Warrior", and near the very end, there is a shot of the Galaxy Class USS Venture docked at DS9. There are 2 very interesting things you will notice: 1) The Galaxy Class USS Venture has an extra structure on top of the warp nacelle's. If you go to Memory Alpha and type in USS Venture and scroll to the bottom, or look up the Galaxy Class, you will find out that those 2 structures are Phaser Arrays. It's the only Galaxy Class ship other than the Improved Enterprise in "All Good Things..." that has those extra Phasers. The Venture was the last physical model DS9 used. All subsequent models were CGI. 2) There is an Excelsior looking starship behind the Venture, but if you look close enough it looks more like an Obena!

[@rbdaviesTB3]

Looking at these, the Obena almost feels like a ship that came 'between' the Excelsior-Refit and the Sovereigns, so you see the circular saucer stretch into an oval, the deflector dish changing, and of course those different nacelles.

[@jasonjulian1]

So, with the TNG Era delta on the saucer, and the sovereignty bits... Perhaps this was a highly modified test bed for Sovereign prototyping... But it worked so well Starfleet decided to make it it's own class and put them in production.

[@richardjohnson9543]

If I had to guess, I'd say it's roughly the size of a Sovereign class or slightly smaller. Definitely much bigger than an Excelsior though. How does this animated series keep upstaging the live action ones?

[@adambrown6669]

Less limits with animated stuff, they can do things like grandiose battles, fancy ships, crazy stunts and amazing scenery far easier when nothing needs to look super realistic and no real life elements are involved. Cetecean ops for example would have been very tacky in live action, but animated it works well. Showing different ships is easier too because you don't need to make a whole set for every bridge and interior shot, just have it animated

[@kdrapertrucker]

Well the animated show is produced by actual Star trek fans, while the live action shows are produced by far leftists who are not fans and are on a mission to debase and destroy all previous mythos.

[@BlueSideUp77]

I forget the term in the U.S. Navy, but I think this ship is Class/Batch 3 or 4, of the Excelsior. Same hull, but built with lessons learnt from earlier Batches. They do this often in Navy production runs.

[@BlueSideUp77]

@Gareth Fairclough it doesn't make sense to me. Why not design a new ship, instead of copying the Excelsior?

[@ravendagrey]

The bump in front of the deflector is the quantum torpedo launcher like on the Enterprise-E, the secondary impulse under the main impulse could be for saucer separation, as for the bridge dome being so big is does have an impulse drive so id imagine the bridge is deck one and the impulse drive is on deck two.

[@chuckt9us]

They reached into my brain and took the refit I've been drawing for 30 years.

[@florianN132]

Take a look at the side profile and from low behind comparison again: I would say the secondary hulls of Excelsior and Obena Class might be the same size, as their basic shape and proportions (not considering the humps and the underslung bit on the Obena) are very similar. It would make perfect sense - McMahan already stated that the Obena is a bigger Ship, and that's what you get, when you scale the secondary hull to the same size as the Excelsiors. It's bigger mainly because of its larger saucer section. "In Universe" they could actually be of a very similar construction - in other words, the Obena just got a heavily updated and improved and modernized Excelsior secondary, thats what the whole Ship is based upon. Then, they designed a completely new, and significantly bigger saucer section, connecting neck section and new warp naccelles for it... Definitely enough to be a proper new Ship Class :)

[@Exploder11]

I wonder if the Archimedes bridge dome is scaled incorrectly of its supposed to be a huge removable escape pod, explaining the impulse engines looking detail.

[@haroldchase1881]

I always loved the Enterprise B , this new ship looks great too

[@TheVentrexian]

Obena fixes all the things I didn't like about the excelsior. Those 90° angle pylons just kill it for me lol

[@Adam_Boots]

Trying to work out how the delta on the bottom of the saucer is lit. Since they changed the number of lights around the sensor dome from six to four the lights are off by 45 degrees.

[@Mu-podcast]

I've never cared for the extended shape on the Ent-B engineering hull. I prefer the "jowls" on this new ship if they want to have some kind of extension. And the huge shuttle bay in the belly actually has a closing door. Was that bay on the Excelsior ever closed?

[@fatenabu1]

the bit in front of the deflector looks like a STO slipstream generator

[@sw-gs]

Two red stripes on both sides of secondary hull are ended with TOS Starfleet delta instead of TNG one.

[@LoT945]

to be honest I view the Archimedes as an Excelsior Refit, much like how the Connie was refit towards the end of its life span. there wasn't anything overly wrong with the Excelsior it just needed updating after the end of the war and mass producing Sovereign nacelles and pylons wold have been easy with the production lines already setup

[@richardcolgrove19]

love how much effort and care y'all put into these videos...as a fellow trek shiplover I can't click fast enough!

[@svsguru2000]

Maybe that nubbin in front of the deflector is a quantum slipstream module, like is common on newer STO ships.

[@kanaric]

This was one of my favorite ships i've seen from trek in quite a while

[@jenniferstewarts4851]

The US Navy does something call'ed FRAM - Fleet Rehabilitation and Modernization. They have pulled old ships out of "reserve fleets" or decomission yards... and "rebuilt them". in some cases the rebuilds looked almost nothing like the origional ship... in the case of old carriers, having their flight decks changed to angled flight decks with catapults, and such to operate jets. removing of guns for more modern point defense weapons and missiles. So yeah, after the Dominion war, i can see the federation pulling some of old excelsior out of mothball fleets, bringing some of the old inservice excelsior in, and doing a full modernization program on them.

[@jamesmagill5433]

Another variant of the Excelsior. Agree there’s enough changes to give it own class name.

[@empressadria7009]

The round saucer was swapped out for the newer oval one.

[@JTeam45]

My main issues with this class are the weird emblem print on the bottom of the saucer, the 'pimple' by the deflector, the red glowy impulse engine(?) on the bridge, and how short the nacelles are. The nacelles, man. If they were longer it would look fine.

[@empressadria7009]

Could it possibly be just a refit? The neck is curved to accommodate the lengthened saucer. Engineering hull just updated. 2370s Sovereign nacelles. A 2nd refit to the Excelsior.

[@joshmccarthy9605]

When I first saw it, I wondered if Starfleet did a FRAM (Fleet Rehabilitation and Modernization) program like the US Navy did with upgrading WW2 ships.

[@christopherdobinson710]

The detail in the underside scoop out is actually the same details the the NX excelsior had in front of the shuttle bay.

[@Digikidthevoiceofreason]

I love the new EXCELSIOR class.

[@TheCharlie1701]

I've always liked the Excelsior, and must say I freaked a bit when I saw the Archimedes. Then I looked closer and was so confused as to what the heck this ship actually is. Thanks for the awesome breakdown, another ship for the Lego fleet!

[@Citiprime]

I believe the Lower Decks production team have said and put out numbers indicating the Cerritos is about 2/3rds-ish the size of the Enterprise-D. Given the size of the Obena-class in comparison to the California-class, it would have to be much larger than the Excelsior-class ships, and bordering on bigger than the Galaxy-class.

[@PaulGuy]

My in-world lore is that the designers used the Excelsior silhouette because it's been around for a century, so it's a design that countless species associate with Starfleet and the UFP. It's a brand new ship down to the bones, but they used the shape for recognition purposes. Kind of like how Klingon ships all have the long neck with wings thing, and they have multiple Bird-of-Prey classes of different sizes.

[@Optimistprime.]

It is definitely Excelsior inspired but I agree with you guys. There's enough difference to make it it's own ship anyway. I also agree with Stewart on this too. The Excelsior has never been my favorite. The B really helped the design for me and this new ship also does fix some of the problems I've had. But either way. I do love this ship!

[@MoonjumperReviews]

I would say that this update of the Excelsior-class (even while technically being a newer, different class) looks a lot more like the Excelsior than the Disco-prise looks like the Enterprise (while claiming to be the exact same ship, exact same class) because canon or something.

[@Phantom19913]

all they changed was the ship size and added more detailed textures to the hull

[@MoonjumperReviews]

@@Phantom19913 - Changing the SIZE of the ship is what’s most significant. Imagine if Mr. T drove up in a double decker bus, insisting that you’re not crazy. You really are looking at the exact same A-Team van our heroes have always driven. “Uh…you mean you bought a new vehicle.” “No fool! You blind!? It’s the exact same van! Don’t you see the red stripe on it!?” “Uh…okay.” Now in our head canon, we can assume that Mr. T is just getting a bit up in years and didn’t quite remember that he dove the old van into the bay and in his confusion bought a double decker bus that seats eighty. Out of pity, someone painted it black with a red stripe on it. “It really is the same van, just a little more detail.” (In a way, that’s basically The Motion Picture, and we just accept it as a refit, because it is a sequel and at least the ship didn’t double or triple in size, despite some structural tinkering.) But along comes CBS saying we’re hiring Michael B. Jordan to play a young B.A. Baracus (formally played by Mr. T back in the 80s) to star in an A-Team PREQUEL, which we insist is set in the same exact continuity as the 80s TV series. It is NOT a reboot; it is a direct prequel. “Okay, that should be fun. What’s it about? How the team first came together in the military and disobeyed orders?” CBS: “Nah, we don’t know what you’re talking about. We haven’t actually watched The A-Team. But we know that everyone knows and loves the van! It’s iconic! So, we’re going to do a direct prequel to the TV series, set in the same continuity, the same timeline as this old ass show we’ve never watched because it’s lame, and it’s going to be an origin story about how B.A. first got his iconic van! Ka-ching!” Uh, okay, sure, we’ll watch that. It should be fun. So, we turn on the TV and the whole movie is dedicated to making a big deal about how B.A. got his iconic van. Not just any van-but THE van! The van that CBS insists is the exact same van The A-Team road around in back in the 80s. But, instead, after a series of massive CGI ‘splosions and humanly impossible stunts, we’re all confused when Michael B. Jordan climbs behind the wheel of…a double decker bus that seats eighty. He paints it black and adds not one, but two red stripes with a slit in the middle (because “modern audiences” will not accept the lack of detail that is one measly stripe). Fans are confused and angry. There’s no universe in which you can say that double decker Mercedes bus that seats eighty is the same Chevy van that seats eight-even after they accidentally sheered off the top deck because it didn’t fit under the damned bridge they were speeding under. Now it only seats forty. And that, my friends, is the origin story of The A-Team van. (That’s Discovery.)

[@Phantom19913]

@@MoonjumperReviews just to remind you mr t’s van is a van with actual dimensions and production. The enterprise was a design on paper that someone said how big will this thing be someone threw out a number and they went with it.

[@MoonjumperReviews]

@@Phantom19913 - That's not entirely true. Matt Jeffries, who designed the Enterprise, wasn't just a Hollywood guy who got in because he was someone's nephew and had taken a course in graphics design. Matt Jeffries was an aviation engineer. Like many of the designers of his era, he relied on math, science, and experience to create designs that were as realistic as possible. These guys created detailed blueprints with exacting measurements, so if he said that something was X amount of feet and inches, you could believe that if you built for real, it would be exactly X amount of feet and inches. If Matt Jefferies said the Enterprise was about the same size as an aircraft carrier, you can bet that's accurate, because his World War II-era background was in military engineering. The man knew what he was talking about. Along comes J.J. and Kurtzman and company, with no such background or skill; they got a young kid out of college who wouldn't know an inch from a centimeter if you showed him on ruler, but he can make things LOOK COOL on a computer. The producers arbitrarily decide that a ship, manned by a relatively small crew of 200-400 people, and is the size of an aircraft carrier (which is manned by thousands) is just way too small. That's not COOL enough! We gotta say it's WAY BIGGER, DUDES!! --THAT'S COOL! Uh, wait a minute. But you just said that this is supposed to be the same ship, set BEFORE the original series--and its size is well established. "Doesn't matter! It's BIGGER!! IT'S COOL!" But then that doesn't make sense either. Because if you line up the old version and new version, and line up the windows as closely as possible, you find that there isn't all that much difference--meaning the new version couldn't possibly be as big as they say it is. It's mathematically impossible. In other words, I don't believe the "new" Enterprise is that damned big, neither the JJ-prise, nor the Disco-prise. I think they're both roughly the same size as the original. (And I don't think the Discovery is all that big either, just based on the size and layout of the windows.) The only reason they are supposedly bigger is because the producers and Eaglemoss say they are. And even if they're right, that these ships are really that HUGE all of the sudden, there's no mathematical explanation for the Space Mountain roller coasters inside them--because they're still not THAT big. The Death Star would barely qualify--and it would take the Death Star to house the number of shuttles and fighters seen shooting out the Enterprise's aft by the literal hundreds. It's beyond ridiculous. It's embarrassing. There's no mathematics or legit engineering involved with these people, just mindless spectacle which doesn't have to make sense as long as it looks cool. And yet, the one piece of actual onscreen canon we have is a computer panel behind Michael Burnham saying the Enterprise is actually only 200-something meters (the same as the original TOS Enterprise). So, what now?

[@Phantom19913]

@@MoonjumperReviews it’s called a retcon when they were designing the new enterprise they had decided it had to be 25% bigger. Also the the designer for the new enterprise was John Eaves he had been designing and redesigning ships for Star Trek longer then some of us have been alive.

[@81ECM]

I happen to like the Excelsior refit (NCC-1701-B) a lot, one of my favorite designs.

[@loganholmberg2295]

I agree with allot of what you guys are saying but didn't the Enterprise A get bigger with its refit too?

[@prion42]

I dig it. You guys going to look at the other ships at the end of the show?

[@S1nwar]

out of all parts the nacelle STRUTS are like a perfect hybrid between excelsior and sovereign. nice design

[@Bordermonkey1]

What I want to know is where is the Letter after the reg number ? memory alpha says USS Archimedes in the 23rd century was served on by then Lieutenant Philippa Georgiou. Left side not talking to the right side maybe.

[@raw6668]

I feel like the necells are little on the small side of the Archimedes.

[@cosmictyger]

I love this class… period. Love it. Love it. Love it. … now, among my favorites.

[@Nightbringer2000]

It makes sense to have an updated ship class based on the Excelsior. Based on what we've seen on screen, the Excelsior has to be one of, if not the most successful ship designs by Starfleet, given the lifespan and numbers of Excelsior class active well in to TNG. Taking the basic design queues and then updating it with the modern technologies of Starfleet seems like a logical choice and a way to fast track a new line of ships.

[@jonuiuc]

The undersaucer sensor domes lights, not being aligned with a light in the center just looks so wrong to me.

[@stevenstocker9873]

Is the saucer larger in diameter with a smaller secondary hull, which would fix all my problems with the excelsior class...

[@bjvincent8786]

Excellent video, I will be when we start seeing fan art and ship orthographs of the Obena class starship Archimedes on Deviantart.

[@anthonylowder6687]

The photo of the EXCELSIOR Class (Enterprise B) is actually the U.S.S INGRAHAM Class. The bridge dome remains me of the Enterprise bridge dome from The Cage. I have never bought anything from EagleMoss but if they come out with this I would definitely buy it.

[@kjh5578]

Think of it like this, everybody in and out of the Federation instantly recognizes an Excelsior class and what its purpose is...like a '69 Camaro. But you can only mod it so much before the original frame can't handle the stress. So you build a brand new ship with retro design and structural tweaks to handle the new tech...and bam, Obena class (or '21 Camaro).

[@keirfarnum6811]

So the Obena is just a mid life crisis ship for Starfleet? 😁

[@kenwynn3871]

Looks like the new version of the Ambassador class concept; an intermediate step between excelsior and sovereign, when ambassador was between excelsior and galaxy

[@christenorio9555]

Warp plasma venting system?

[@eXcommunicate1979]

Could be the last batch of Excelsiors, built during the Ambassador class age as escorts for the Ambassadors. Then later after the Dominion War outfitted with Sovereign nacelles. This would be the final upgrade for the final batch of Excelsiors.

[@johnbockelie3899]

What's so funny, is I have a model of both Enterprise B, and E. One day I was wondering what it would be like to switch the warp engines around. And this came along. It's like this ship answered my question.

[@wuushew]

I think the construction is much newer based on the registry number. This hull appears to have been built after Voyager.

[@bcluett1697]

I love this class. They don't need to change anything for me. I would guess the sizing closer to the refit Enterprise or an Ambassador but of course smaller in width at the saucer. I don't mind the Delta. Gives it an Oberth less tactical feel like it's a different division/purpose. I like the idea it's an ambassador's ship which might explain the stripped down appearance. I really like the designs Lower Decks has been coming up with. I wish Paramount would use those designers on the other shows.

[@michaelwilliams3648]

Looks like a clear replacement class for the Excelsior, phaser strips, new deflector and new engines but building on the existing experience making it simpler for ship yards, common ancestor as we have done with ship building. Clues in to the Sovereign class nicely and likely not many built as dominion war would make the need to jump to the even newer and combat focused ships. The excelsior class was still a main stay and active ship of the dominion war so timings for development and build would be quite close together, another replacement that becomes obsolete and low numbers due to events moving faster than planning.

[@MetallicaFan1442]

Thanks for the video, I really like this ship design.

[@hankthepatriot3733]

I like it! It looks to me an updated Excelsior design, which looks great.

[@ReelMeurik]

The Obena Class is definitely a bigger ship than the Excelsior. For starters, it has 3 rows of windows in the saucer edge (up from 1 on the original Constitution Class, up from 2 on the Constitution Refit and original Excelsior)

[@al28854]

haven't seen the episode yet, but I remember in the opening of 'Generations' where the new Enterprise-B, the one with Ferris Bueller's best friend played by Alan Ruck plays the Captain of the.......anyways, just saying the unique design feature I noticed was there was a couple of shuttle bay doors that made up part of the 'neck' part of the ship. Hope the Archimedes doesn't follow suit with that feature also. It's like they got rid of the old parking lot space and put some more apartments to replace the more valuable real estate area.

[@jakem5037]

Its a fine refit/redesign.. I only miss that bright blue a white paint job of the original line

[@chriseasterbrook9228]

The bit in front of the deflector looks like the torpedo launcher on the underside of the Enterprise E

[@CaptRobertApril]

I agree with Stuart, it takes everything that bugged me about the Excelsior and fixes them.

[@-randychasechase2660]

I wonder how many adversary mistake it for the Excelsior. Then find out it has a bigger punch

[@JosephofWalton]

I guess this was recorded before the Picard episode where we see the Excelsior refit.

[@SGUDistantHope]

Yes, it was recorded just as the ship came out, long before Picard S2 :)

[@serina3872]

For me the class seems like they once again tried to upgrade the Excelsior class but finally reached its end point of it can't be upgraded anymore so because the class did so well, they made a class to resemble it.

[@christenorio9555]

Faster sovereign warp core increasing size?

[@mikestoast]

Samuel, you stated that they stopped building Excelsior Classes, yet and correct me if i am wrong. In the one episode of Voyager when the go to the ShipYards on Mars, we see Excelsior Classes being built (and Reliant) do we not? Why would they stop building Excelsior or any class, if the ship class works keep the shape and just upgrade the tech, maybe even the size. As a big fan of the Excelsior Class, there are some things i like with this redesign; The neck, and how it attached to both hulls, the swept back pylons, the increase saucer size. Some things i don't like; the straight pylons, the location of the impulse engine behind the bridge, the oval shape of the saucer, the impulse engine under the main impulse engines the massive bridge dome

[@athane8358]

This reminds me of the Daedalus/Olmypic and the NX/Akira situation. Where Starfleet remade old designs with modern styles and technology. It is a nice reference to canon. I can imagine after the dominion war Starfleet opted to replace the lost Excelsiors with an updated and remade design on the same space frame.

[@David_J_B]

Seeing this full breakdown, I think maybe if the neck sloped backward more to balance out the forward sweep it would look better on the profile view...and I think the nacelle pylons could have been perhaps more hybridised, maybe with a subtle curve up to the nacelles, instead of just a diagonal (Ent-E) or a right angle (Ent-B). Also, I think the pimple was them attempting to have the sovereigns sweep up to the saucer torpedo launcher, though it could perhaps have been a little smaller and less pimple like :) Other than that though, it's a great design, and shows mixing of design elements like some of the old kit bashes (like the New Orleans and Centaur).

[@ababab28]

This is one of the most beautiful ships in star trek... I love it!

[@adrianengland6354]

If i remember rightly the ship you showed as a concept for the Enterprise B was named the Ingram Class. Which had many addons and parts changed! Also it was more of a warship. Space control ship? again if memory serves me. Still i think the Obena Class looks cool :)

[@srmparadigm]

I initially thought this was a call back to the line " I hate it when a ship get's repair and comes out looking all soverign class"

[@samuelcallejo1268]

The creators of Lower Decks have confirmed the new class of ship Obena is a new class ship and it is larger than the standard Excelsior. Assuming there nacelles are the same type (not scaled down version) the ship appears to be in the 600 meter ranges

[@keirfarnum6811]

The ribs and lack of windows on the Excelsior neck make it look like it’s a bendy part that should flex and move; like a toy.

[@Jack_Stafford]

This ship is far more similar to The Excelsior than the Enterprise in the motion picture was to the Enterprise from the TV show. Yet people accept almost without exception that it is exactly the same ship even though it is clearly different with different shapes that cannot be reconciled. And those both are live-action of course, this is just a slightly exaggerated non-canon cartoon version of Excelsior with new struts and nacelles that make more sense without a point was 90° Bend in the strut. We can't scrutinize small details too much in a cartoon, just like we wouldn't compare the characters to real humans and discuss how skinny the necks are on the show compared to the characters on other Star Trek TV shows. It's clearly meant to be a cartoonish Excelsior, there are far more similarities than there are differences.

[@howardhowe3453]

It could also be an early production Prototype ship.

[@thedarklordrevan]

Looks to me that it’s a excelsior secondary hull with sovereign saucer and nacelles and new neck

[@rinzler9171]

Aircraft Carrier USS Midway in San Diego looked ridiculously different from commission to decommissioning. This sort of thing is likely over now and they just churn out new ships to replace old ones

[@Sybok51288]

using the sovereign nacelles kind of supports the 600m+ excelsior length theory which fixes a lot of problems with interior, model details, and on screen contradictions that come with it being 450m

[@JosephDillman]

Came here as this ship has come out as the Winter 2024 prize ship for Star Trek Online. Great comparisons, guys!

[@scytherpodcasts]

Looks like the Excelsior and the Soverign had a love child.

[@beejcarson]

a love that dare not its name

[@gorgonzola86]

Maybe after the Dominion war they tried to use old drydocks at the fleetyards that were once constructed for the excelsior class. So they based a new ship on an old proposed second refit for the excelsior and incorporated some new technology.

[@mattmilsop4003]

I like the colors of this ship. Maybe the navigational deflector would have been better off blue, but it's still good.

[@panelvixen]

"I hate it when a ship gets repaired and comes out looking all, Sovereign class."

[@cosmictyger]

Ovens interiors?

[@LostMercenary99]

I want more of this class so bad. You can damn well bet I'm buying the Eaglemoss model.

[@AsylumEscapade]

You know the guys of Star Trek Online is scrambling to get it integrated into the game.

[@Ithirahad]

That "bridge dome" would constitute a large conference hall or a small stadium if it really were that size :D

[@kevlarchicken]

I like the new design I could easily see it as an overhaul of the excelsior the way the constitution was overhauled that said the Enterprise b/Lakota will always be my favourite