How Dennis Prager, Jordan Peterson and some Protestants get P*rn Wrong

In this episode Trent examines some recent comments from Dennis Prager and Jordan Peterson that argue for p*rnography in moderation and compare them to Protestants who condemn porn but defend masturbation.
To support this channel: / counseloftrent
The P*rn Myth - ignatius.com/the-porn-myth-po...
Delivered: True Stories of Men Who Turned From Porn to Purity - shop.catholic.com/delivered-t...
Covenant Eyes - www.covenanteyes.com/
Timestamps
00:00 - Introduction
01:49 - Prager on Lust
06:45 - Prager and Peterson on P*rn
08:19 - My 6 thoughts in reply
13:33 - Pageau on P*rn
18:29 - Anti-porn resources
19:13 - Prager on looking at women
21:13 - Why masturbation is wrong
24:26 - Protestants on masturbation
32:13 - Sola scriptura and masturbation
35:30 - Are Catholics united on this issue?

[@TheCounselofTrent]

For any Protestants commenting, what I mean by "some Protestants get P*rn wrong" is that some say it is ONLY p*rn that is wrong but masturbation itself is not wrong. See 24:32 in the episode.

[@Paul-el4zd]

To be fair, Protestants such as Confessional Lutherans, they would classify masturbation as mortal sin, etc. These Protestants are severely misguided. Excellent video. Prager U 👎🏻

[@TheCounselofTrent]

@@Paul-el4zd Agreed, but this goes to my point that Protestants disagree on really important issues. The Protestants I cited in this video are fairly popular.

[@enshala6401]

Yeah, when I was a Protestant, I read that book "Preparing for Adolescence" by Dr James Dobson ("the Focus on the Family" guy), and I remeber that snipet you shared Trent. This is the result of Sola Scriptura. It leads to a very prominent Protestant elder to teach their adolescents that God is silent about self-abuse. Horrifying.

[@mitromney]

Hi Trent! As your protestant viewer, thank you for these insightful comments on a very important issue! I have just a few comments, hopefully, constructive, not destructive 🙂 22:25 This as a rule, simply doesn't work. At the very least, not in the context of sex and human body. Tell me please, mr, Trent, what are female breasts for? Are they intended to give sexual pleasure for the husband or rather are they designed for feeding a child? Obviously the latter. And yet, Catholics seem completely fine with breasts partaking in all kinds of sexual acts between a husband and a wife. And what's worse for your case, the Bible seems to agree with that. Proverbs 5:19 for example. And we can take that even a step further, outside of marriage. Bible, obviously acknowledges kissing in many places. But what are lips for? Are they for kissing, for exchanging saliva with another person? Not in any way we can tell from physiology alone. Lips have no part in life creating process of intercourse. A couple can never kiss, and love each other perfectly well, and have plenty of kids. For all that we know, based on science and physiology alone, lips aren't meant for kissing either. They're for eating and speaking, because they have teeth and tongue for digestive purposes, and vocal organs for speech purposes. Nothing that would indicate kissing with another person is orderly. And yet, Catholics do accept it as moral between two loving people. Outside of marriage even! What I'm trying to say is this - Catholic rule about bodily organs only being used for the purposes they are designed for just doesn't work. That's not how the Bible views human body in the context of sex and love, and that's not how Catholics themselves view human body in the context of sex and love if you dig beyond most controversial examples. 32:50 I don't think this is a fair assessment of protestants, even those you showed struggling with finding an answer to these issues. Like you've just read from the book quotation, protestants can not be DOGMATIC about things that aren't in the Bible. But they most certainly can have OPINIONS about these issues. And they have (and they often build them, taking their founders as a basis for their claims!). There are many protestants who shout from the rooftops that any and all masturbation and pornography is wrong and evil. And they do it even though they have Sola Scriptura rule, it does not restrain them from having these opinions. And even the pastors and preachers you did mention, are strictly opposing pornography and masturbation, and quoting them having doubts about some small, specific cases does not change that. 33:26 - From what I know, both Pope Francis, and Pope Benedict, publically allowed the use of barrier methods in specific circumstance, for specific peoples. So it is my understanding, that Catholics aren't no so set in stone either. Just like protestant pastors, who would see some exceptions to commonly acknowledged sins being acceptable, Catholics also go out of the orthodoxy for specific situations, and you see nothing wrong in doing so. And it's the case for the magisterial instruments as well as random priests and theologians, it would seem.

[@Paul-el4zd]

@@TheCounselofTrent You’re right. It’s not my high church confessional Lutheranism that I have an issue with, it’s the rotten fruit of every other protestant sects that’s leading me to rethink “scripture alone”. As much as conservative confessional Lutherans distance from themselves from every other protestant sect, but their own (for good reason), they are still Protestants. My point, they are not like the other protestants. That is why I’m considering Orthodoxy. :) Anyway, love the video, keep up the good work.

[@Mac1996_]

You don’t need to be a theologian to understand the immorality about porn

[@DerPinguim]

My personal experiences alone would honestly make me anti-porn just by themselves. Every time I used (and unfortunaly still use, God help me), I'd reflect on what I did objectively and despair over what I caused myself to do over another person. How I thought of the women involved. It's disgusting. Fundamentally. Yet it has a way to trap people, as it does with me, as it does with most people today. There is no more apparent sin, a more apparent thing that turns you away from Christ than to willingly use a person you do not know, a person that might be in suffering, both physically, mentally and spiritually, for your own pleasure, and it is such a shame to admit I haven't yet mastered my desires to fight against it.

[@marvalice3455]

One would think. But the allure of vice is powerful.

[@jotunman627]

@@marvalice3455 true, that is the easy and wide road....bearing one's cross is a heavy and a burden. People naturally refuse to carry their cross. "Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple." Luke 14-27

[@femaleKCRoyalsFan]

@@drjanitor3747 I believe fertility awareness methods can be used in grave situations. For example, if the mom had a C-section the last pregnancy delaying the next pregnancy a few months would be OK to allow for healing or if the mom has diabetes, they might have to space the children out a little bit because that is more high risk. By the way, I’ve heard of NaPro technology doctors using it to find the source of an infertility problem. Sometimes they can find out if they have like an ovarian cyst or endometriosis.

[@JulioCaesarTM]

@@drjanitor3747 Nah, No Such thing in the church.

[@tuav]

This is one of the reasons why I became more interested in the Catholic Church. Very consistent moral teachings.

[@Golfinthefamily]

as long as you recognize there are protestant traditions that have it as well.

[@ultimatebros923]

Okay, who’s gonna tell him about the death penalty problem?

[@K-tl7ym]

I agree! It’s so clear.

[@twitherspoon8954]

_"Very consistent moral teachings."_ Explain why you worship cannibalism and ritual human sacrifice.

[@billrupert7560]

@@ultimatebros923 don't tell me you are going to compare murdering innocent babies to sentencing criminals to death... Hopefully you are speaking of something else

[@volusian95]

"Conservative Inc." being lukewarm and limp-wristed? Imagine my absolute bewilderment. Hearing this makes me so thankful for the Church

[@skitsschist11]

No way, another amoral/immoral Jewish-owned media outlet! that's craaaaaaaaaaaazy

[@pchuck1439]

As a Conservative, Conservative Inc. is very suspect on some moral issues. There's a Conservative KZbinr who doesn't believe Jesus is God and another Conservative who considers himself a "Gay Christian". And of course Dennis Prager's error on this issue. Thank God we have the Church.

[@danvankouwenberg7234]

Sounds like they all have at least one wrist in good shape.

[@tompinkerton8099]

You can accuse them of many things, but having a limp wrist does not seem to be one of their problems...

[@jhoughjr1]

@@danvankouwenberg7234 this needs more likes

[@KSTrekker]

I was shocked when I heard this. Good in moderation? Are they insane? Do they realize that today’s porn is nothing like what a Playboy centerfold was 40 years ago? It was sin then and still sin today. I was addicted to porn for most of my adult life as a practicing Baptist. It was not until I converted to Catholicism that I finally controlled my lusts and reconciled to God.

[@flamingdragon3861]

I agree, this was not a good representation of how serious an issue they essentially greenlit in moderation (at least Mr Prager)

[@hughsalter7769]

repent of your idolatry and Pope worship and return to the True Faith

[@flamingdragon3861]

@@hughsalter7769 swing and a miss

[@sliglusamelius8578]

@@hughsalter7769 Pope worship? What? I can’t stand this pope, but the papacy is the only glue that holds the ship together. You Protestants are fragmented into a million pieces. That’s really stupid.

[@LoveMuffin800]

@@hughsalter7769 There's no idolatry or Pope worship.

[@catholicguy3605]

Big W for Trent for pushing back against this

[@KSTrekker]

And a big, fat L for Jordan Peterson on his “in moderation” view. I was thinking how far he’s come from saying he doesn’t believe in God to now. In some ways, he still doesn’t get it. He still thinks he’s in control and he can bargain which facets of his life are controlled by God.

[@johnbrion4565]

@@KSTrekker I remember at one point when Peterson was just coming back into the public and in the midst of great suffering I thought he was going to become Catholic. Then he seemed to get better physically and seemed to be less focused on growing closer to God.

[@KSTrekker]

@@johnbrion4565 - yeah, I know. I had hoped that he would draw closer to God and maybe the Catholic Church. He came back from a terrible drug addiction so I don’t see why he doesn’t see how damaging a porn addiction can be. Especially as a clinical psychologist. I think some people think if they take a hard line on pornography they will get cancelled. The spirit of our age tells everyone, “if it feels good, do it”.

[@el.vicho.de.la.sierra]

common trent W

[@Jack-uo7gz]

W for Jonathan Pageau as well. Props to him for pushing back on Peterson and Prager's terrible takes on this issue while also being respectful and kind-hearted. He's like the Orthodox version of Fr. Mike Schmitz.

[@laurahorn]

I went to comment that this episode made me so grateful for Jesus and His Church, but I'm glad others beat me to it!

[@alqoshgirl]

And to be married to men that genuinely are strong, moral, faithful and leading their family properly. Can’t imagine being married to men that think like that.

[@ChachiTelevision1979]

Turning "OK, Creepo" into a meme.

[@alainamolnar2199]

I felt the same way!!! especially after hearing Prager's views 🙄

[@Jack-uo7gz]

You and Trent are the definition of couple goals.

[@BigPhilly15]

I have a feeling Laura will do a satirical re-enactment of the roundtable discussion.

[@firmbiz000]

20:26 “excuses to commit vice instead of opportunities to grow in virtue” well said Trent ! 💯

[@kell_checks_in]

That should be "excuses to commit murder." P*rn kills children and women. When are we going to talk about that?

[@SailorSabol]

Wanna know if pornography is wrong? Ask yourself if you’d be fine with one of your close female relatives being that girl doing it. If it’s wrong for the woman to do it then it’s wrong to create an incentive for it at the very least, and it’s just wrong in general too

[@Goodkidjr43]

Correct. If porn is so such a societal good, then we should convince our mothers, daughters, sisters to become prostitutes, adult actresses etc.

[@covonedigrano7491]

Exactly. “Love your neighbor as yourself” Matthew 22:39, the second most important commandment tells us to make no favoritism. If we don’t want ourselves or our relatives to be publicly humiliated and degraded as porn actors are, then we should wish the same also for other people and avoid watching porn completely.

[@vermontmike9800]

With that logic, if I didn’t want my daughter to be a cop, that makes that profession wrong for women?

[@justhair17]

Yeah. And also, almost everyone who watches porn and masturbates does it in secret. You never talk about it publicly, because you think its shameful. That already suggest it is wrong

[@joeschultz3116]

@vermontmike9800 you’re missing the point. You most likely don’t want your daughter to be a cop because of the dangers that come with that profession not because it’s shameful or degrading to be in law enforcement. Conversely when it comes to porn people don’t want their loved ones to be a part of the industry because of the degrading sub-human nature of it. This comparison only works if you’re opposed to your daughter becoming a cop, not out of concern for her physical safety, but out of concern for her dignity.

[@louis559]

I cannot even begin to understand how watching porn isn't widely considered to be a form of cheating.

[@tylere.8436]

If you are married and watching porn, that would be a logical statement to make. Now how about someone not married yet?

[@r.a.panimefan2109]

Ok so we both agree that stealing is wrong christ even clarified your thouts are a sin if u think it Now if u can tell me the differences between seeing your neibors car and can go darn I wish I could drive that. Vs. Ithinking about how ull take his car One is admiration. And before u swing envy. Again wrong if u begin stealing what isn't yours. But if your envy sparks u to go get a better job. So u can by that same car. Is that envy still sin When u can see the difference about that with adultery which actually means a women who.breaks wedlock. Mathew was about coveting a niebors wife in your heart. Lust means Any desire thar is not allowed. Or a covetness. Pual defines lust ad coveting In romans kjv. Other versons hide the first word list with a second covet.

[@Artaxian_Debacle]

This is where American “Conservatism” fails its full of inconsistencies and is just a more limited liberalism. That’s one of the reasons I look the church for guidance rather than these “men”

[@2righthands816]

That's because American "Conservatism" is built on a bastardised version of Christianity, Judaism and individualism.

[@adolfogarza8934]

Same here, glad I got out of the whole turning point/prageru influence

[@cardboardcapeii4286]

@@soapyacreshomestead2226 without the church, you have no guidance.

[@KobaJack]

@@adolfogarza8934 Then you choose to close your eyes.

[@tab8803]

And your church is run by men, who behind closed doors, are as vile as your imagination can conjure or compare to the men you dislike lol.

[@cardinalbubxiii803]

This is extremely aggravating. As long as I’ve been alive, this addiction is the worst mistake and regret of my life. I hope one day, this scourge is wiped from the earth. There is no debate here, it’s evil, both pornography and self stimulation.

[@MariChambers]

I hope you can heal and recover!

[@bairfreedom]

Same here.

[@Wolffur]

It takes a lot of strength to admit that. I went to confession to admit this. And that started my road to recovery.

[@MinteRed]

As a convert from evangelicalism, the longer I am Catholic the more clearly I see how the Protestant model negatively reinforces immaturity. Asking if something is okay or not is the mentality of a child. Whereas, asking if something will make us holy is the mentality of a mature Christian. Holiness is where the Church has set its sights in giving us guidance on these issues and we would do best to get in sync with HOW the Church is thinking.

[@junoirdabom8188]

That’s a false dichotomy, God teaches both in the Bible. He says at the same “don’t do this because it is wrong and sinful” and “do this to pursue righteousness, so that the Holy Spirit may sanctify you”

[@brando3342]

Generally when a Christian asks “Is this okay to do”…. They just mean “Is this something God wants me to do”, which is the same as saying “Is this something that will contribute to my sanctification”, which in turn just is asking if it will make me holy. I don’t know who you were talking to that gave you the impression these aren’t the same thing.

[@corbincastle9264]

Why would Catholics take bible advice from a Talmudic Jew and a Jungian psychologist?

[@johnhenry1791]

As a catachumen, I have tuned out a lot of these "competing voices" who are not teaching the truth, or the fullness of the truth. At this stage, I'm just trying to learn the teachings of the Catholic Church. Watching things like Peterson's new series would not be a wise use of my time if I'm trying to learn about Scripture and Tradition. I would much rather study the Catechism of the Catholic Church (which I have now read in full) and pray the Liturgy of the Hours (the readings from which have helped me a great deal in learning).

[@corbincastle9264]

Wise move. This other stuff is just noise.

[@twitherspoon8954]

@@corbincastle9264 _"Why would Catholics take bible advice from a Talmudic Jew and a Jungian psychologist?"_ Yet you worship cannibalism and ritual human sacrifice.

[@alqoshgirl]

Agreed! I don’t like prager and don’t listen to his content. I really don’t get why he’s praised so much among conservatives

[@2righthands816]

This is, unfortunately, very American and many Catholics follow such twisted way of looking at Jews (or even Protestants in many cases) as 'fellow God worshippers' or 'friends in faith'. It's simply wrong and one should actually avoid listening to them when they try and give a piece of advice, especially when it comes to morals or, God forbid, theology. Why take advice from people who openly reject Jesus Christ?

[@kevin6596]

I was also shocked at their rationalization. I currently struggle with watching p*rn, and I could argue that it isn't "hurting" my marriage... but of course it is. Even if it isn't hurting my marriage in any observable sense, it's a stain on my heart and mind. Not to mention supporting an industry that is responsible for SO much evil - from adultery to human trafficking. It's a bummer to hear these men I admire say, "watching p*rn is actually just fine" when I know it's not and I struggle to stop the temptation. I used to think p*orn was just fine when I was a self-proclaimed atheist and it was just in the last couple years, engaging in Catholic theology/philosophy, that I have come to understand how terrible it actually is. I have been corrupting my heart and mind for 15 years, and it's incredibly difficult to reverse the damage done and resist the temptation... especially in the world we live in - world that is constantly saying "sin is good" in one way or another.

[@animgreat2719]

With the Grace of God you will finally overcome it.

[@fruzsimih7214]

Keep up the good fight! Praying for you!

[@andreichira7518]

It is a struggle of mine every day as well, brother. Kyrie eleison! May God have mercy on us sinners and bring us out of the darkness.

[@covonedigrano7491]

Stay strong brother. You will make it, it’s a hard battle but it’s not impossible. On the fact that they believe porn is fine, that says a lot about them, I don’t think they are worthy of admiration.

[@anastasiya256]

I would challenge your assumption that you need visual stimulation or any sort of feelings of lust as a prerequisite to masturbation. To divorce masturbation from pron, try to masturbate without thinking about anything other than the act itself. IMO, the thing that makes masturbation wrong is lusting after other people, which really does pervert even their personhood. However, small children and babies engage in self-stimulating play with their genitals, even though they have no concept of lust, so the act itself cannot be wrong.

[@slow9573]

I have found a disturbing lack of understanding of sexual morality in many of my Protestant friends in general. Wives will feel used and taken advantage of, but they don’t have any recourse because, well, the Bible doesn’t speak against what’s going on, so it must be ok. And all that along with the ruinous consequences of sterilization and contraception. Also, Jordan Peterson ought to know better. The psychological literature about the damage of porn use is vast.

[@alqoshgirl]

I’ve noticed that too! A lot of Protestants think that a woman should also put out regardless if she’s interested because it’s her duty and her body is not hers alone. It’s a very twisted and selfish way of looking at the sacred bond of sex. As Catholics we believe it’s supposed to be a joint act. Meaning both enjoy and love each other. Not use your spouse as an object for your own pleasures. When I read Protestants view on sex it makes me so grateful we are Catholic and my husband has so much respect and love for me and our marriage.

[@sfappetrupavelandrei]

In Jordan's defence, the common position of professionals in therapy is that masturbation or porn is not bad as long as it is in moderation.

[@tianamenezes7548]

You're so right regarding the Protestants lack of understanding of sexual morality. I have noticed it quite a bit also when they try to rationalize the evil of IVF and surrogacy. They don't see anything wrong with it, and thus willingly use IVF to "solve" infertility and grow their family. I'm so grateful to have the Catholic Church and the Cathecism to instruct us that sex is supposed to be both unitive and procreative and that you can't separate one from the other. No matter how desperately you want a child it is not right to conceive them outside of the conjugal act between the husband and wife and try to manufacture them in a lab!

[@ironymatt]

​@@sfappetrupavelandreigreat argument for not entrusting the most intimate aspect of married life to "professionals". The entirety of a person isn't reducible to the sum of their parts

[@K-tl7ym]

@@alqoshgirl prior to converting to Catholicism from Protestantism, I was taught that it is almost a guarantee that your spouse will cheat on you if you don’t say yes every single time he wants to have sex.

[@chrisg0001]

Thank you for addressing this. When I watched that episode I was taken aback by Prager's comments. Porn is a cancer that's becoming uncontrollably

[@r.a.panimefan2109]

Porn is a symptom of the society cancer not a driving force. It's a effect not the cuase. That's why the churches can't beat it. We keep throwing regulations at it And testing it with. But wait to know why it's a. Thing. 1 prostitution is illegal why It's immoral of course to us. If u take God out of scenarios and we look at things through are world. Prostitution might seem ok at premise of u have a right to earn money and your body's your own. ... if God is removed. Without God it can not be recognized as issue. So why don't states ban porn ? It's becuase the states get a tax made pay check. Porn is regulated and therefore taxed. That's why govs let it slide but prostitutes on the street they arrest. Both are the same thing. Christian morality let's us see that. So we start treating it as we would prostitutes That's why porn is wrong is becuase with each click on those porn actresses u r paying them. Once that connection with prostitutes is made it falls into place. But why is promiscuity a issue. Are laws insentivises divorce. It insentivises abortion. Single parent homes. Black communities are fatherless. Now consider 1 /3rd of men are sexless. 80 percent of women now are competing over 20 percent of men now. There is courtship delusion from feminism going on. So we have a ever growing group of young men who can't have sex. Any other time in history if this kinda thing occurred we'd see bloody revolution. Porn and sex in media. Is in a way serving as enouph distraction that men haven't gone postal yet. But that wound is getting infected. Society is sicker. We need to remove the bandaid(porn) And start getting rags isopropyl And sutures. For this society. Women also have huge numbers of abortions stds. Etc Trent may have a vid on pearl. But the dating app sites and girls interviewd the stats show. This world has a loniness issue now. St pual is clear that when evil men ban marriage and men and women stop marrying passions left to burn sexual immorality issues. Now masterbation seperate issue. But porn will only stop when are society starts being society😅

[@bethanyjohnson8001]

Thanks for putting this out there. I am continually upset by the number of Christians or conervatives justifying the use of p*rn.

[@Jerome616]

And sadly it just boils down to capitulation . We need to stand firm in these things.

[@stcolreplover]

Probably has to do with not being in the One True Church

[@stephenjohnson7915]

It’s one result of having a”big tent” so we can make common cause on certain political issues. We find ourselves disappointed because our political allies turn to be morally whack.

[@461weavile]

I agree that there's probably more major impact from the protestant movement. Lack of authority is responsible for so many evils.

[@5BBassist4Christ]

Who are these Christian conservatives trying to justify it?

[@brians7100]

The Catholic Church is so clearly ahead of all the other churches and religions on this particular issue.

[@rightinthedome9973]

We got 2000 years of tradition to guide us

[@resvero8342]

We are the only church.

[@rightinthedome9973]

@Phlebas who claimed it was?

[@OnTheThirdDay]

I would say that dogma on this issue is generally good for this issue, however in practice it is allowing all sorts of immorality. The fact that many bishops and even the pope have not recanted or been excommunicated just shows there is a lot of rot.

[@lois2997]

@Phlebas your protestant religious is clean as snow bs

[@ajbahus]

Thank you, Trent. Because of your wise words along with people like Matt Fradd, Jason Everett and Father Mike (not to mention the grace of God), I've been porn-free for nearly 3 and a half years.

[@gravytopic]

Porn free, as free as the wind blows?

[@supernerd8067]

Please pray for me and all who struggle from p^#@. It truly is a terrible thing. EDIT: Thank you all for the prayers. Praying for you as well. Not giving up on sobriety no matter what.

[@jpesmar]

Will pray for you, as I am in the same process. I am ready to let the Lord clean me from my perversion. My whole life since adolescence has been damaged by it, and that includes my previous marriage. I started this lent with the purpose of not watching none of that filth, nor engaging in self indulgence, and I soon found myself trying to negotiate with sin. Thinking well, just a couple weeks longer and that's it. But that's not how it works, once you start letting Jesus make you into a new creature, there's no going back. Turns out the more I shed of myself and let the Lord work in me, the more things I realized I need to shed. I already fall once during this Lent, and I have no excuse, I knew what I was doing and how much I would sadden the Lord to see me love my sin more than what I love him. I feel ashamed to the point i haven't been able to ask for forgiveness in my prayers, much less Confession, because I feel like a total hypocrite. I'll probably struggle with those thoughts and temptations for the rest of my life, but I'm sure Jesus Christ will help me, I just need to let him. The good news is, the Lord knows how weak me and you are, and we aren't meant to be strong, we are meant to trust in Him, obey Him, and let His strength be the one that pushes us through our fallenness into our Father. God bless you my brother in Christ.

[@Igor-hk1zd]

Hey, sorry to hear it. I've struggled for almost 18 years with porn. I started to pray rosary daily, and after a while started going to mass and later went to confession, + listening and reading to good catholic stuff and being mindfull of triggers. I know people have different experiences and paths how they stopped with porn, but I cannot recommend enough the rosary. Temptations are still present but you can overcome them. Mary will intercede.

[@supernerd8067]

@@Igor-hk1zd thanks. I've struggled with the Rosary for 5 years, sadly. I'm never consistent and always put it off. I know there is power in it, and I need to do it, even if I'm not in the mood or frustrated with it. Please keep praying. I will pray for you. P.S.: Not quitting trying to pray the Rosary daily.

[@Melek0al0Kebir]

@@supernerd8067 Praying for you man! Also look for fraternity that you can trust and anchor that lifts you up. Covenant Eyes mentioned in the video is good thing. Here in germany we have freeIndeed as a provider for those fraternitys. You don't have to struggle alone!

[@supernerd8067]

Thanks @Michael K ! I was told by my counselor to join SA, and I have been infrequently attending meetings virtually and have a sponsor. Unfortunately, I am not a fan of it. I was also not the best attendee last week. I have been toying with the idea of doing Strive 21 instead. Part of me thinks God is telling me, "Suck it up and go to SA," though.

[@timboslice980]

How can coveting your neighbors wife not include lusting? No way God is only referring to your neighbors wifes personality traits.

[@GarthDomokos]

great comment. lust is an intense sexual desire by definition, where coveting does not necessitate a deep sexual desire. Definitely a great point of discussion.

[@timboslice980]

@GarthDomokos yeah I would find it nearly impossible to covet your neighbors wife to not include lusting for her. Imagine the scenario where you actively plan on stealing her from your neighbor but don't intend on any sexual advances. Likewise I can't imagine a scenario where you lust for your neighbors wife but don't covet her. The act of imagining her doesnt seem possible to me without actually wanting to commit the act. I think jesus is just pointing out the practical nature of our actions coming from our desires. Trying to justify it exposes the selfish nature of looking for loopholes in the law so that we can continue to sin without guilt.

[@eddardgreybeard]

Precisely why the Church divided it into two commandments because women aren't possessions.

[@timboslice980]

@eddardgreybeard725 I don't follow your logic. Adultery is wrong because married couples belong to each other. Women are possessions of their husband's and men are possessions of their wives. If you mean to say they aren't objects, then I'd agree. We have the commandment to not covet your neighbors goods... if I thought women were objects to own then they would just be under that commandment. If you covet your neighbors goods, then you want them for your own. If you want his wife then you want her for your own. We have the commandment about adultery and the commandment for stealing. Why do you think jesus didn't make another law saying that stealing begins in the heart? That it's root is greed or something? It's because we know that stealing begins by coveting someone's goods. Jesus had to explain adultery because too many people of that time misunderstood the law and obviously they still do.

[@LauraBeeDannon]

Maybe she is sweet and bakes very good pies and dotes on the children and the guys wife is just a boss babe who refuses to cook?

[@adam12732]

John Doyle did an amazing dissertation on this issue and he basically explains that porn is the same thing as having having sex in terms of how your brain reacts to it.

[@DM_Curtis]

If only that were true!

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

Definitely agree! His video on the topic was fantastic!

[@dom9593]

John GOYle

[@psyopatcman2109]

I appreciate you talking about this issue. Ever since I was 10 i've always had a struggle with pornography and masturbation. During puberty I was handed james dobsons book about it but I was still confused about it. My parents never offered an explanation and always hip-hopped around it. I agree with the Catholic stance on the issue (though my mom who used to be catholic is heavily anti catholic now) so finally at age 27 I am offered a solid answer on the issue. Again, I thank you for this video.

[@enshala6401]

I was given the James Dobson book "Preparing for Adolescence" when I was a Protestant kid. I remember how disgusted I was about his take on self-abuse. Just... ewwwww. Even while being Protestant through no fault of our own, for the faithful to God, He gives us the proper instruction in our hearts (Rom 2: 15). This is why you know sex outside of marriage (including self-abuse) is contrary to His plan for us as children of God. The Catholic Church will always be here when you need us. God bless you. 🙏

[@psyopatcman2109]

@@enshala6401 Yeah when it was brought up in the book that's when the confusion started. I would have asked my mom but she would overreact to anything. Brought it up to my dad and he was like "Well theres a verse about dropping your seed or something." Didn't help at all. Even at 21 I bought josh mcdowell's seminar on the subject matter and it was even MORE confusing. They can't give a straight answer because if they did it would crumble their sola scriptura argument since it doesn't mention it specifically in scripture alone. I thank trent horn and my best friend for 12 years for finally opening my eyes to Catholicism where my questions were answered.

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

​@@psyopatcman2109 it has nothing to do with sola scriptura, that's wrong. You shouldn't use disagreements to throw stones, especially when it's unrelated. The reason _some_ protestants don't have a straight answer is simply because they don't have an answer. They haven't thiught about it as much, or they don't have a dogmatic standard position. In reality, it's because _some_ Protestant Christians don't use catechisms or maintain a high level of detail in their confessions. Many of the Protestant denominations were founded particularly around the idea of removing dogma around non-essential teachings. For some, that includes everything but the central Gospel message. Anyways, you should be more careful about your words. It's that kind of unnecessary meanness that kept me from listening to Catholics most of my life, and it's this sort of ignorant infighting that still keeps me from taking it more seriously. When you are right about something, you can make an argument without slandering or misrepresenting your opponent, and you will never build any bridges to the other side when you don't try to understand them. I get that most of the people around here are Catholics... but I shouldn't be able to say that I expect this kind of thing in these spaces. Nor should ya'll have to deal with the accusations of Pope or Mary worship.

[@psyopatcman2109]

@@josephbrandenburg4373 I wasn't throwing stones at all. I was just pointing out that relying on the Bible only for answers for topics like these can be a slippery slope. For protestants we rely on pastors to tell us "well the bible doesn't tell us about X so what is your take on it?" Different pastors have differing opinions on the matter and it gets extremely confusing and makes you question "well am I going to hell because of this? Will I lose my salvation?". I am very new to Catholicism, started last year. What I like about it and what trent horn mentioned is that there is a council that gives a direct answer to questions on topics that aren't in the Bible specifically. There's no differing opinion. Masturbation is a sin as stated by them, no matter what scenario it is in. That is a whole lot better than one pastor saying "Well it's a sin unless it's mutually agreed on if you are married and you are doing it together." That is like having your cake and eating it too. Again, wasn't throwing stones, just pointing out that we need an authority here on earth that can tell us what the stance is on the issue. Without that, we can interpret the Bible on our own and come up with a totally false answer.

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

@@psyopatcman2109 Eh, I agree that there's a lot of bad, wrong, or missing answers. But blaming sola scriptura is nasically saying the Bible doesn't have the answer. That's something that all of the Protestants Trent Horn brought up in the video had in common- a reticence to make an authoritative statement about what the Bible says. There _is_ wisdom in refusing to say somethinf you aren't certain about. And there's great folly in placing burdens on others when you aren't certain- something many Protestants feel the Catholic dogmas do. So it makes sense that they would avoid a hard answer to a touchy subject. The underlying problem is a lack of understanding of what the Bible really says. That's all. It isn't in relying on the Bible for our answers. The Catholic church's dogma about this subject is rooted in scripture, even if a lot of it was only fully discovered by the late, great St. John Paul II. I also want to say that i have a lot of sympathy for the question of assurance of salvation- one of the reasons I'm still Protestant. I was never taught the fuzzy lines of "earning" or "losing" salvation, nor the equally crazy idea that you can lose by disobedience what you did not gain through obedience! Any Protestant that teaches that sinning can take away salvation simply doesn't understand their own tradition, let alone the Bible's teaching. Probably the second biggest concern for me, after the whole praying to Mary/saints thing, is the idea of mortal sin, venial sin, and purgatory. I would be just like Martin Luther - constantly in the confessional over every tiny, inconspicuous transgression. I don't want to have to worry so much over whether God will be faithful, even when I'm not. What good is a God who can't hold on to me? Anyways, I don't really expect an answer, since that was all beside the point, but that's my perspective on that.

[@theonewhomjesusloves7360]

There is only one reason a MAN would argue FOR porn and lust

[@alqoshgirl]

Prager is a twice divorced man. Makes you wonder why he can’t keep a marriage working. I can’t take him serious

[@sfappetrupavelandrei]

I would say the same about bishops or priests encouraging any type of blessings of gay marriage. 😂

[@theonewhomjesusloves7360]

@@sfappetrupavelandrei they are men so that proves it

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

Eh, this is a dangerous line of reasoning. There's only one reason a woman would argue against witch trials- you know? She must be a witch. I think it's good to take the devil's advocate position, at least subjunctively, when thinking through an issue. As for Prager, yeah, I think he's pretty transparently confessing to using porn to relieve his sexless marriage. But Peterson was being more thoughtful.

[@OnTheThirdDay]

To be fair, I think you need to consider the passage from Romans 1: 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. I am saying that some people approve of wickedness because they are in need of truth and may be rejecting it. May God count me and you righteous in His sight when he comes. God help us lest we also fall. However that said, you make a good point. It is the first thing that came to mind because conservatives really should know better. I have found conservatives often do not care about immorality in media (TV, music, etc ) except some fundamentalists and traditionap catholics. For instance, Klavan (Protestant and kinda on the edge of conservative and liberal), Shapiro (Jewish), Knowles (Catholic) seem OK with this stuff but Walsh (Catholic) is right that trash in media is evil. As a protestant myself, it is sad to see mainstream conservatives be so wrong on something very conservative and obvious.

[@TestifyApologetics]

I'm gonna try and dance around KZbin's comment moderation here but a long time ago I read a book written by an evangelical named Kevin Lehman called Sheet Music who encouraged solo acts as perfectly healthy within marriage(!) and encouraged using is as a way to "last longer" if a guy struggles with premature eja____ Pretty appalling and disgusting. Catholic teaching on this topic is 100% correct.

[@grosty2353]

I’ll just say stick to the historicity of the gospel buddy 😳😂

[@TestifyApologetics]

@@grosty2353 LOL trust me I know my lane.

[@grosty2353]

@@TestifyApologetics it’s definitely your lane! You do great work, I’ve really benefited from it as I’ve become more of a fan of historical arguments.

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

@@grosty2353 Why would you say that? Do you disagree?

[@RobertButler1]

How would you suggest someone deal with a "premature" issue?

[@husq48]

I'm back in "Sexaholics Anonymous" and am grateful for such a fellowship. Years ago I took a Protestant course on sexual purity, in one section wives were rebuked for denying their husbands because they were sick. I'm not talking about "not tonight honey, I've got a headache!" I mean genuinely sick. They cited the passage of St. Paul where he sez spouses may abstain for the purpose of prayer and fasting. So being sick was an "unbiblical reason" for abstaining. Help, common sense anyone??? 😱

[@maryangelica5319]

The simple response is to present the passages about how husbands are to treat their wives. While wives are taught submission with respect to husbands (particularly in terms of decision making), husbands are taught to be deferrent and gentle in their treatment of their wives. The least you can do with these passages is to argue that the husbands who are demanding sex in those times are actually hurting their wives, and they should stop. 1 Peter 3:7 "Ye husbands, likewise dwelling with them according to knowledge, giving honour to the female as to the weaker vessel, and as to the co-heirs of the grace of life: that your prayers be not hindered." Peter tells husbands to in particular to be considerate of their wives as a "weaker" (i.e., more delicate) vessel. A husband who demands sex from his sick wife despite her sickness is going against this due deference to her well-being. He is not being gentle with her and not regarding her greater sensitivity/ delicateness. Ephesians 5:28-30: "In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. " We should love our spouse as we love our own body. This includes especially being their for your spouse as they are sick. A husband who demands sex from his wife while she is seriously sick rather than focusing on helping his wife get better is acting with hatred to his body.

[@resvero8342]

The correct response is "Your a man, not a animal. Exercise a ounce of self control you bonobo"

[@OnTheThirdDay]

Not common sense. Common descency. God have mercy on me and you lest we also fall.

[@nightyew2160]

The simple solution is to fast and/or pray when you're sick. A lot of illnesses make fasting a good idea anyway. ;)

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

@@maryangelica5319 phenomenal comment response! God bless.

[@BastianHelena]

When you mentioned that Pragar is using the left’s logic, I smiled because that was literally what my husband and I were talking about upon hearing his take.

[@Aryanne_v2]

He's using Jewish logic, which is what the left's ideology comes from.

[@spuzzgekk]

Trent, I am a fiery Baptist, you and I disagree on very many things but we are in complete agreement on this one. Pornography is a terrible evil, so thank you for making and explaining this is thoroughly as you have.

[@johnbrzykcy3076]

I agree that pornography is an evil although I don't understand why our minds have such a strong influence on our bodies. My addiction to porn disappeared when I came down with cancer ! God bless you...

[@sttrategic]

same. Protestant here that is one fire with his faith and though I disagree with a lot of Trent’s takes, I also agree with many things this being one of them. For me, scripture directly addresses the sexual depravity issue. We are to take every thought captive to obey Christ. 2 Corinthians 10:5. More than that, we can simply follow the conviction from the Spirit. We know better as christian’s filled with the Spirit. We know the answer and any attempt to justify the sin is just that, a justification attempt to desperately indulge in your flesh while trying to convince yourself scripture is giving you the nod. It’s not and you know it. It is hard and takes constant taking thoughts captive, but that is why Paul wrote it that way. We must beat our bodies into submission as he expounds upon.

[@jd3jefferson556]

Pragers take on this truly discussed me. So many conservatives don't want to destroy the roots of evil in this country because they love their own sins too much.

[@gch8810]

If he really wanted to destroy the roots of evil, then he would first convert to Christianity.

[@2righthands816]

One might say his line of reasoning is very Talmudic.

[@eddardgreybeard]

​@@2righthands816 He admitted as much

[@YiriUbic3793]

That is why they stay in the heresy of protestantism to justify their sinful lifestyle, they only pretend to be good and moralistic in front of others but in the dark their level of perversion is unbelievable

[@bebeglazer3541]

He often annoys me, especially when it comes to his attitude towards women. I would be heartbroken if my husband said the things he does. How dismissive of women, and of his wife in particular.

[@atgred]

I stopped watching porn when I realized that not only was I hurting my wife and myself BUT the same women and men that portray such acts. As economists say, as long as there is demand there will be an offer. Many of those who are in those pictures and videos may well be victims of sex traffickers. It is pure evil, because the sex act not only is only for hetero married couples but also it should be a very private matter. The sexual act has never been something to “show off” to anybody. Just by making it “public” it turns the original act that is a gift from God to an evil act from Satan.

[@supernerd8067]

God bless.

[@SaintJoseph911]

This was awesome. I find it disturbing hearing these people act like it's no big deal. Even saying it's fine as long as you aren't lusting... well idk about the rest of you but I think that's impossible. Before I came back to the Catholic faith and gave my life to Christ, I couldn't even go 4 days without dealing with masterbation/porn addiction. After just a few months I'm going 3 weeks strong. A priest I saw for confession once told me to pray for freedom of these addictions. It's been working. Keep going strong people. This is a battle. When we fall, go to confession. Just keep battling. Even if you lose a battle, aim go win the war!

[@gabrielethier2046]

Yet again Jordan Peterson equates Christianity to a mere self help movement

[@sfappetrupavelandrei]

Are you surprised? I never felt any from the Peterson family really accepted Christ as a Person.

[@Molotov49]

Peterson is basically a conservative atheist.

[@gabrielethier2046]

@@Molotov49 it's hard to say, he claims to believe in God, but in practice he seems to thinks Christianity is more useful than it is true

[@Molotov49]

@@gabrielethier2046 He believes in God only as a fictional character. Typically he dodges the question entirely.

[@LauraBeeDannon]

​@sfappetrupavelandrei his wife is a devout Catholic, but we don't hear from her much. His daughter is still on a journey.

[@no_prisoners6474]

Also, he is literally giving us context for why Jesus referred to the followers of law as 'washing only their hands and not what's on the inside' Suggesting that adultery is merely an external act. A Whole grown man with silver hair. It's shocking.

[@HappyAmerican]

I was absolutely appalled (to use a favorite Dr. Peterson phrase) when I heard about this. What are these men even thinking?!? It just goes to show that grand intelligence does not always equal good morals.

[@DUZCO10]

I don't get tired of praying it: God bless Mr. Trent Horn

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

I assumed Prager was Christian but it makes sense now that he isn't since he's a bit too big on blaming poor people for all ills. Not that I'm against personal accountability but he lacks the elements of Christian charity and humility stemming from a "have mercy on me the sinner" attitude in a lot of his sociopolitical positions.

[@2righthands816]

He's a practicing Jew.

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

@@2righthands816 Yeah I didn't realise until hearing him say this.

[@OnTheThirdDay]

Prager always markets himself as a Jew. I just guess you are not very familiar with him. That's why he is even there discussing the Exodus, as giving a Jewish perspective.

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

@@OnTheThirdDay Yeah I follow him but don't watch a majority of the videos so I'm not surprised I missed it.

[@OnTheThirdDay]

@@colmwhateveryoulike3240 yeah, that's odd because I am like you but he mentions jewishness all the time.

[@youtubecharlie1]

Good job, Trent!!! Thank you for sharing the fullness of truth, which is only found in the Catholic faith!

[@rolandovelasquez135]

Being that you mentioned Protestants, as usual, just gotta say. Some of the biggest porn consumers are Roman Catholic men. And here is the official Protestant teaching porn. Porn is lust is sin. And before pointing any fingers, speaking of lust, you need to look at your own Roman Catholic clergy. Sodomy and abuse of young Catholic males (the numbers are staggering) by your own priests, bishops and cardinals. Here we're talking about behavior a bit worse than masturbation. Think.

[@kgpspyguy]

I personally couldn’t take much more of this hogwash. Some good points, pornography and “self consumption” are a terrible, and consuming sin, but all the rest is Pegan catholic nonsense. Roman popery in its most wretched form. This utter plank of wood is REALLY out here criticizing Christians for treating the HOLY BIBLE as the one and only authority. Absolute madness. Revelations 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. There is NO authority beyond the gospels. No catholic pamphlets, or imagined psalms written whilst enraptured in worship to a graven image of your pagan may queen Mary. No finance focused scribblings written by boy lovers in the treasure packed halls of the Vatican. No rabid mutterings scrawled on a napkin at the Banquet of Chestnuts. Utter pish. I couldn’t care less what else he has to say. I couldn’t care less what the conclusion of his message is. This is a man who claims to be within the body of Christ, while actively evacuating his blasphemous BOWELS across the holy scriptures, only to go off and prey to his pagan saint icons, ignoring the revelation given to us that NOBODY comes to the father except through Christ. Utter pish.

[@LSC63]

The problem with Jordan Peterson that nobody ever acknowledges because nobody likes to criticize him, is that he tries to pander to multiple audiences at once. I have no idea what that man actually believes because he says just enough good things about the Bible to get Protestants and Catholics excited, but then will pander to Muslims and practicing Jews as well. I'm not saying to be disrespectful to other people, but the man won't make a definitive stance on anything, and I believe it's because he wants to remain popular with everyone. That's not a principled person in my book, that's an opportunist.

[@blairpham9429]

Honestly, everyone wants J.P on their side. I agree that he doesn’t take any definitive stances, but I don’t know if “popular” would be the word, if by popular you mean for personal gain rather than the quantity of his audience. I believe that his psychological background causes awareness that he has to be tactical in order to come off as unbiased, or at least unbiased to the extent of losing much of his audience. This is how he’s pointed numerous people back to the Christian faith to begin with. His overwhelming mention of the importance of suffering, defense towards an objective standard for right/wrong, and the mentioning of how his wife has experienced miraculous healing and how that’s influenced his outlook on Christianity leads me to believe that he is a follower of Christ. He may not be explicit on where he stands regarding his faith, but over the years, it’s becoming more and more clear that he has developed a relationship with God. There’s a video on KZbin of him talking in depth about what he meant when he said that he lives as if God exists. Just my two cents though.

[@gregeichhold8562]

We shouldn’t just focus on culpability. Even if our culpability is diminished, the effects of evil behavior still takes affect. Just as with alcoholism or gluttonous behavior. Even if we aren’t sinning in the eyes if God, we are still causing harm to ourselves and those around us. Something to remember for those struggling and need motivation to stop.

[@annb9029]

Porn for women went rampant with 50 shades of grey I had women talking about that book at church

[@DM_Curtis]

Pr0n is rampant in most fiction written by women.

[@firmbiz000]

16:58 I think this in fact was Pageau’s point. These passions enslave us, just as the example you make here. I get your point that he could come down harder on the fact that it is a sin. However he does a few minutes later in the conversation when asked directly by prager if it’s a sin and Pageau’s response is in absolute, yes masterbation is a sin.

[@enshala6401]

Thanks for the context! I am tempted to watch the whole episode on DW+, but I am kindof afraid to. 😅

[@sfappetrupavelandrei]

I agree. I didn't get to that episode but I feel that Trent misrepresented Jon's position. He never said that porn is normal, he said that sexual desires are normal. This is a big difference. Without having the context I feel that his point was that we don't need to start the conversation with don't do that because it is a sin. There needs to be a process in which we will arrive to the point where we will reject these sins by our own decision. There was a story said by a monk about some Russian guy who would do exorcises and after that you may see him smoke a cigarette. For those who are not Eastern Orthodox, smoking is a sin. So this monk quickly added: this doesn't mean that I recommend people to smoke. It means that this is not where the conversation needs to start from. I also can see Trent's point. There are these youngsters who idolize people like Jordan Peterson so saying stuffs like that would offer them excuses to continue watching porn. And, of course, this is not right.

[@robynabbott5254]

My argument has always been the same on the subject of pornography. I ask people if they would feel the same if it was their son or daughter resorting to this to make money? Or it's okay as long as it happens to other people's children or loved ones and not yours? I used to have a great deal of respect for Jordan Peterson and Dennis Praeger. This casts them in a different light now. They aren't as morally upright as they say are they? Keep these men in your prayers. God bless you Trent. 🙏🕊

[@oraetlabora2024]

God Bless you Trent. This is one of the best explanations ever.

[@ProjectMysticApostolate]

Thank you Trent. As a father myself, this was amazing content. God bless you always!

[@GratiaPrima_]

I just don’t get it. I don’t know about Prager, but at least Peterson knows better than to let lust into his own life and heart, clearly. I think the intention was to be a bit gracious and non-condemning to people who struggle and don’t “get it”. But wow, they really just set the bar low and gave them a moral “green light” in the process. Not great. Hope Peterson gets back to his usual or calling men higher, because this wasn’t it. And hope Prager comes to Christ.

[@nuca5104]

You shouldn't be surprised at all... one is jewish, the other is gnostic. Matter of fact you should *expect* this mediocrity.

[@m.935]

And yet he made a public criticism video calling Catholic Church out for not keeping men on higher standards.

[@ika7622]

Very interesting topic.... Thanks for your work.

[@theradiantknight9771]

Thank you for your work Trent, God bless you and your family.

[@ZekeMagnar]

Job had lust in mind in the Old Testament since the 31st chapter of Job begins with him making a promise with his own eye never to *_look_* lustfully at a young woman. I mean it seems clear that the implication there is that it’s not a righteous thing to do and that our eyes do in fact play a role when it comes to being guilty of the sin of lust.

[@bibibuu6646]

Thank you for this sound commentary and catholic perspective on the matter.

[@willie-wilz5267]

God bless you Trent. Thank you for using your brain, heart and soul! This was helpful!

[@malloryanderson724]

I think it's interesting that they're only talking about men and porn - because women struggle with different kinds of porn addictions. Especially because our 'organs' are mostly internal. There's a whole type of fiction that's called 'bodice-ripper's' for a reason.

[@DM_Curtis]

Women get a pass because no seminal organs, no build-up, no urgency, and no evidence. Indeed, female porn need not even be explicit, thus flying under the radar.

[@AngelineProductions]

Women struggle with “regular” porn, too…

[@malloryanderson724]

@@reasonablebro True, but I'd love to see an honest discussion about the women's struggles with it. Especially with smut being so common.

[@schmoedanz7809]

You hit it out of the park. I struggled for a long time and only with God's strength did I stop. God bless my friend in Christ

[@bringontheworld]

This is phenomenal. Nice job Trent.

[@Nicholas_TheDrumShed]

Thank you so much for this episode Trent!

[@thomasjorge4734]

Love People, Use Things; Right. Love Things, Use People; Wrong.

[@kaetlinhermes423]

Thanks for this video. I’ve been watching the Exodus series and was very surprised to hear them say this. Two great thinkers getting something so wrong

[@2righthands816]

It's not that surprising given neither of them are actual Christians: you've got a practicing Jew and a confused (religion-wise) psychologist.

[@Xristophero]

I wish we would stop consulting fallen men like Petersen and Shapiro for morality. They’re not really “great thinkers” for stating the blatant obvious truths on SOME grounds. A great mind worships God in full. Any other intellectual bit is rendered moot by the mind that denies Truth. No respect for any such person.

[@johnchacko1425]

Jordan Peterson should become a catholic

[@Joker22593]

The thing that got me about that video, besides the obvious, was that Prager said that Christianity was basically ideas or a philosophy instead of a practice, and that is so totally wrong. It's so wrong, in fact, that I started writing a book about it a month ago. Maybe I'll finish it eventually.

[@NJHProductions512]

interesting

[@ForwardTalk]

Trent, you always give very thoughtful responses. Well done.

[@NequeNon]

Trent's reaction @6:12 perfectly expressed exactly what I felt about it! I think that "conservative" voices like Prager saying such things are gravely contributing to social decay, in a way which may be more severe if it came from more liberalizing forces. If the forces that are supposed to sometimes say "no" are treating something so important to our soul are saying "meh" or even "yes", it's the thin end of the wedge. I'm actually surprised a psychologist like Peterson, a man I find intelligent and interesting, doesn't see the alarm bells going off on this topic. Porn is a devastating vice, it's inflicting social and psychological trauma and at an early age! This should be an easy one, an easy one even for our political authorities to ban it! Unfortunately, I think Americanism and its developments are at the source of much of the erroneous ideas that are pervasive now, in places we wouldn't initially expect. Trent, thanks for making this video.

[@crystellesaleh4800]

Trent: “I can be wrong about stuff” Me: I highly doubt that lol. Trent is literally so on point about pretty much everything. He is only human so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, that he can of course be wrong. But I’m pretty sure that by the time he comes out and says something on KZbin he has made sure that he is right about it. Thanks for being such an excellent reference for us 🙏🏻

[@michajaneroy]

As usual, when I’m confused about a statement that someone I respect made, Trent sets it all straight.

[@salonsarwar4557]

Excellent session! Truth is truly objective!

[@boojasmine]

Excellent Trent, thank you.

[@alqoshgirl]

Thank you for doing this video. I have discussed this for years with my husband now about pragers views. You put all my thoughts in this video perfectly!

[@mortensimonsen1645]

Hi Trent - thanks for a great episode! As a recent convert to Catholicism (I am 49 now) I have a few points to even strengthen your case! 1. As a protestant (a committed one I would say) I struggled with masturbation. I knew it was wrong and disordered through my consciousness, but I got *no* help from protestant leaders/books. They were all vague or allowed it. My point is that Protestantism, in this case, is uncharitable. It makes it *harder* to quit - because my faith depends on what I am taught and because the teaching is also something I want to hear, but at the same time I am suspicious of it. 2. Since no Protestant I knew of would condemn masturbation, I did not know of anyone that had conquered the vice. At some point, I fully believed that it was not possible to overcome this thing. That led me to believe that even those claiming to live celibate (that is, catholic priests/bishops/etc), really couldn't do it completely since it was impossible. 3. I suspected that the lack of victory over this vice was the reason for the Protestant view on this issue. It's very hard to respect leaders if you suspect them of cowardice and weakness. I needed clear teaching and trustworthy role models. In short, I needed a church that really was a Church. As soon as I entered the Holy Catholic Church (I admit the Eucharist also had something to do with this) - I was finally able to conquer this vice. To be sure, I have fallen since, but now rarely and I also believe it is possible to win (which is a colossal shift from before). I no longer believe my body is conspiring against me. When I fall is because of the choices I make about what to focus/think about. The bottom line is this: Out of CHARITY the Catholic Church must be clear about this wonderful teaching. The wonderful thing is that it is possible to live without masturbation - it's not like we're a pressure cooker, God didn't make us that way. Also, those that allow what is disordered are UNCHARITABLE.

[@eddardgreybeard]

Couple that with the faith alone gospel, and there's little reason to quit. Add once saved always saved, and there's no reason to quit.

[@gedat5538]

Human welcome or feeling good in a welcoming community is not sufficient for you! You should follow the WILL of Jesus, the Christ. God has given us his WORD and a CHURCH to guide us! In spite of all its unfaithful members through the centuries, the Catholic Church is still the only Church that Jesus built for us. Now that you are an adult, your baptism does not depend on your parents faith. Join the RCIA at the nearest Catholic Church! God bless you and I will pray for you!

[@AJ_Jingco]

​@@gedat5538 I'm a cradle Catholic, and I do NOT masturbate, because I play video games. And of course of my belief in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ ✝️, but I still STRUGGLE with Lust. Because I read Erotic Fanfictions.

[@tomasidh]

Thanks for speaking up on this, Trent.

[@jacob5283]

Good video, thanks for this. I do want to say though, Pageau may not have responded the same way you would have, but I don't think he was trying to be soft on the issue. I think he was annoyed by the same theological/textual/linguistic hair-splitting that you were also criticizing. He's trying to say that Prager's impulse to figure out how far you can go without it technically being a sin according to some framework that he came up with is missing the point, from a Christian perspective. The point is to put on Christ, and the intended implication is that no amount of hair-splitting can make porn/masturbation/other disordered acts conducive to putting on Christ.

[@nutritionnut3975]

Couldn’t have said it better myself. I thought that Trent at least somewhat misrepresented Pageaus position. I understood him to be saying asking if something is a sin or not is already approaching the situation wrong. It is better to ask if this could ensure me, or does this bring me closer to God/further theosis

[@robstvn]

In all honesty, I don't have a problem with what he said, I have a problem with what he didn't say. As a member of the church, he should have been way more firm and strict to denounce the sin of lust, particularly because Peterson and Prager are figures that young and confused men look up to, many of which are in grave danger of losing their souls because of this sin. I sure would not laugh or even joke when talking about it.

[@jacob5283]

@@robstvn Western Christianity has used the strategy you describe for hundreds of years now. How's it working out so far? The problem isn't that people don't know Christianity condemns lust. The problem is that people don't understand the story or telos of Christianity, so they don't see why Christian teachings are important or relevant to their lives. You can repeat moral precepts until you're blue in the face, but if people think Christianity is basically a list of arbitrary rules, they're not going to care. Pageau's strategy isn't to endlessly recite lists of rules (although in every case I've heard him speak on, he supports the traditional positions on moral issues). His strategy is to help people understand the meaning of Christianity so that they care enough to take it seriously.

[@housecry]

​@@jacob5283 Well said.

[@OnTheThirdDay]

Jonathan got right to the heart of the matter which was something that Jesus pointed out that thr pharisees (the intellectual ancestors of Prager) did: ignoring the plain statements and also the heart of scripture for the laws they made themselves. They say that one should not carry around a tissue in your pocket on the sabbath because it is work, but somehow they are not giving plain teachings about guarding one's heart for the holiness of God, which is taught throughtout scripure. They add on extra things but miss the essentials. No eating milk and meat (some people say it is a fence to keep from the sole command of not boiling a kid (animal) in its mother's milk), having to walk to synagogue instead of driving, etc. So many things are obviously backward in the legalism and some obvious moral truths are backward. I am just saying that there is something seriously wrong with the priorities. I am not saying there are not many seemingly genuine people trying to please God or that I am free from all sin or even close. God help us all.

[@crazyedswonderfulworldofso9370]

Excellent! Excellent! Excellent! You nailed the Catholic position Trent! Well done!

[@jimbojackson4045]

Thank you for addressing topic Trent. I was appalled at that video too, given my respect for Prager. However, as a protestant, I don't see myself committed to the views of the protestants you mention. I don't see why I can't have scripture _and_ the theology of nature. I'm with the Catholics on this, but not bc it comes from a specific church; but bc it makes sense.

[@robstvn]

Great video Trent, thank you.

[@j2ko1]

Thank you for this video I never would have guess those KZbinrs came to that conclusion

[@AveMaria.GratiaPlena]

“In those days there was no king in Israel; every man did what was right in his own eyes.”

[@TH3MANWITHAPERM]

Not one single Catholic on that panel. Shameful given who provided the Bible to the world.

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

Thank you very much for addressing this issue. It’s such a widespread issue, perhaps that’s likely in part why so many are wary to come down on such a normalized habit. However, we’ve seen where that leads, it’s leads to today. Same for discussing abortion, destroying marriage, etc. There must be the strength and absolute moral conviction to come down firmly on the topic, along with all others. The teachings of the Catholic Church must be spread to the world properly again and again. God bless.

[@AshwinEAcharya]

This really is an excellent, rich response to the issues presented and intellectually muddied. Thank you, Trent.

[@hogandonahue9598]

Man Dennis Prager being spicey and not very based lol

[@phoult37]

Prager is a neo-Con, not a Conservative. He supports abortion in some circumstances and is pro-foreign war. He's also a hard-line free-market guy.

[@wholesome122]

Isn’t he an atheist?

[@hogandonahue9598]

​@@wholesome122 He's apparently Jewish *shrugs*

[@FrogEnjoyer33]

​@@wholesome122 jewish

[@toofrosty6344]

Well… he’s Jewish

[@juanortiz2937]

Thank you Trent for keeping some wacky people in check

[@holyinnocentslongbeachvide8197]

Excellent rebuttal to Prager & Peterson! God bless your work!

[@jaylaw.7660]

Good break down, Trent!!👍🎁😍😊❤️

[@mariab.774]

Thank you.

[@Imbetterthanpaulallen]

I wish Trent was with them. He would have done very well.

[@sfappetrupavelandrei]

No, he wouldn't. The discussions from the Exodus series are more from a symbolical point of view. Not from a Christian point of view.

[@guadalupeosnaya9953]

Muchas gracias, excelente explicación!

[@krysisadaughterofpaul]

Trent, it would be immensely helpful if you could post short, shareable clips from your longer videos! There's so much good content from this video that I want to share, but I know the length of the video would be a hurdle for many to get past. In any case, thanks for your work. Another great video.

[@josephbrothers4511]

Trent you absolutely crushed it!

[@Momof15plus]

Thank God for the Catholic Church and thank God for Trent Horn.

[@visitor5009]

Thank you Trent. Always being clear about the only one true faith, and not those ambiguous ones.

[@ericgatera7149]

Fantastic reflection. Food for thought

[@haydongonzalez-dyer2727]

Nice stuff

[@no_prisoners6474]

If this is what Jews believe then they need Jesus. Jordan Petersons lack of back bone won't end well. It's not 'cool' to have devotion to nothing.

[@jorge28624]

Refreshing, thanks, Trent!

[@praytojesuschristhelistens6231]

Fantastic episode like usual 🎉

[@johnchacko1425]

I wish Trent horn to write a book about the catholic church teaching on porn

[@mikemccarthy6719]

I'd love it if Trent had the opportunity to explain Natural Law and Aristotle's metaphysics to Jordan Peterson.

[@st.mephisto8564]

Aristotle's Natural Law is Irrelevant now that we know how there's nothing fixed, teleology or otherwise in nature. Everything is always evolving, mutations and change are the norm not static telos/forms.

[@kathleenirish]

Looking at porn, and enjoying it, is taking comfort and benefit from others’ sin. I am no scholar or professional but it strikes me as absurd to say it is fine, no problem.

[@danielcavi4917]

I had the exact same verbal reaction at 6:13. Thank you for posting this.

[@maximopablo4295]

Great video Trent 👍

[@TheJmlew11]

Praeger seems to really be bending the law to allow his eyes to wander wherever he wants to.

[@alqoshgirl]

Yes he does. I read an article of his one time where he said women should consider it a miracle when their husband comes home without cheating and how thankful they should be for that😮. He thinks it’s no big deal and women should just accept it. Just crazy! Then again he’s a twice divorced man that obviously doesn’t know how to keep a marriage successful

[@philc6068]

Judaism 101. The Talmud, their holiest book (not the Torah), is a bunch of lawyering God's laws to allow sin

[@motherbhaerbear3807]

@@alqoshgirl I was wondering if someone was going to bring up his multiple marriages.

[@jeremyheintz1479]

His kin are the biggest pornographers out there, corrupting the goy one shekel at a time.

[@gijoe508]

Excellent rebuttal

[@tonybennett08]

I broke this habit 1 year and 8 months ago by reciting the Rosary daily. I started off by saying 20 decades per day for almost a month. Although I haven't looked at it my dreams and thoughts are sometimes attacked and started effecting me more recently. So I kicked it up again and started saying the joyful in the morning sorrowful in the afternoon and glorious at night. Mama Mary will protect you, run to her and ask her to shield you in her womb.

[@menevar7529]

Thank you for a thoughtful video