Triggered by Snaps/Flatpaks Destroying Linux! (CONSPIRACY THEORY)

[@LukeSmithxyz]

URGENT! Read this: lukesmith.xyz/deletion

[@xBZZZZyt]

404 Not Found nginx

[@msor6108]

@@xBZZZZyt He probably removed it from his website.

[@geezlouis7561]

“I don’t want to live in this universe anymore” - Luke Smith 2020

[@8w73]

He said what I always wanted to say but didn't know that I had to

[@8w73]

@@serial_sequence2k God, I wish

[@howhow54321]

*snap* yep, this is going into my home directory

[@ridhowijaya7959]

@@marioschroers7318 yes, snap creating loop partition and y can't even remove that thing XD

[@Mipetz38]

When you are so much of a boomer you just got to know Snaps and Flatpaks on August 2020

[@typeunknown1540]

20 year old boomer here, never knew these things existed until 2021.

[@Gurj101]

if you are new to linux flatpak and snaps isn't the first thing you learn. Its something you learn when you can't find a software in your package manager or any repo link for distro etc. I have never personally felt a need to use them.

[@flip4119]

@@typeunknown1540 2022, im not gonna use em

[@Twtgod]

@@flip4119 2023 this is my first time hearing it.

[@indestructible247]

@@typeunknown1540 14 year old boomer here, never knew what snaps were for until 2022

[@RockawayCCW]

Snaps are just Ubuntu trying to solve a problem they created in the first place. Debs were well on the way to world domination in 2004, when Ubuntu came along and fucked it up by making incompatible debs.

[@abstractapproach634]

.deb is worse than a snappack in a flatpack ..... they don't even work on debian. Portage or Github 4 the win.

[@xBZZZZyt]

@@abstractapproach634which deb are you using?

[@kekistanimythology5833]

Hey Luke, can you say something like "you have a message" in your Soy-Dev voice? Would like it as a ringtone.

[@potatolord2858]

also a "ring ring ring" would be cool to have

[@0x7A69]

"I'd just like to interject for a moment..." would be awesome as well.

[@martinprochazka3714]

This needs to happen.

[@tuluwa]

gay

[@lizardstuff9541]

Luke I even may pay for it

[@aleksanderkrauze9304]

I know it may sound silly, but Ubuntu's heavy integration with snap and messing the output of lsblk was one of the main causes I've switched to Arch. I haven't regret it for a minute! :)

[@Eletronicafg]

can you elaborate on the lsblk issue?

[@aleksanderkrauze9304]

@@Eletronicafg sure. lsblk was intended to list you block devices. But on Ubuntu it additionally lists all installed snap packages. And on freshly installed system there's like 5 of them by default.

[@drstrangecoin6050]

Obamalinux and its effects have been a disaster for the FOSS race.

[@marciomaiajr]

@@drstrangecoin6050 Lol.

[@daniloscapellato]

Let's hope Arch doesn't get magically infected by snapcrap and fatpak.

[@rothbardfreedom]

DT said if he would make a distro, the distro would be 100% AppImage-based.

[@LukeSmithxyz]

That must be satirical. I had to check. He also said fish should be the default shell, so there's no way that's not a joke.

[@justinsuvoy]

Lmao

[@nan0m373r]

I don't think you can make _everything_ an AppImage, but all userland desktop apps -- absolutely. Then normies would only deal with those, and the conventional package manager would be reserved for the system stuff.

@Alex Hucker That was serious and they actually agree on that. And so do I. Also don't forget grandmas.

[@MrHaomich]

@@LukeSmithxyz Speaking of Fedora, there is actually an official version of it called Fedora Silverblue where all packages are installed ONLY through Flatpacks.

[@Floturcocantsee]

Appimages are the only kind of these packages that make sense because it let's developers release snapshots and beta versions of their software without the user needing to compile it against their current system's library versions.

[@ejkozan]

And also AppImages give opportunity to pack and archive old software not possible to run without dependency hell.

[@tiberiusmagnificuscaeser4929]

It’s literally just .app for linux. Which is good tbh. One of the things OS X did right was how it packaged userland applications

[@zyan983]

Exactly.

[@avongil]

@@zyan983 These are awesome. You just download the app and run it. Just like OSX. Linux would be awesome if everyone would package their application in one.

[@swagar]

And even then, that has limited appeal. Developers who test beta software are less likely to run an LTS distro with conflicting libraries, not to mention they have access to containers and VMs for that sort of thing.

[@fullscale4me]

I went SNAP free this month. Wiped out Ubuntu and installed MX Linux. I got tired of my web browser of choice taking >35 seconds to open on an i5 machine with 6 Gb of memory. Much happier!

[@anonymouscommentator]

6 gb of memory is crazy my guy

[@vetrixfx9264]

​@@anonymouscommentatorI dare to say that for casual use even 4GB *should* be fine. nowadays everything is some JS-Chromium-app anyways so less than 8GB is not very viable unfortunately

I am pretty sure that applications installed through these container-based package managers also increase RAM usage. Dynamic libraries are on unixes called shared objects for a reason, once they are loaded they are stored in the same physical memory for any process using them. This is negated by the fact that each package uses slightly different version of the same library, or even if they use the same version kernel does not know that as they are not the same file in the file system.

[@daniloscapellato]

You're right. Also, snap increases the boot by creating a lot of services and the Snap Store uses an amount of RAM even when it is not being used, there is also the fact snaps update in the background and they are very hard to fully control them.

[@ianhamilton350]

Dynamic linking of libraries has a host of its own issues, though. Most applications only use a fraction of the utility in a library yet the entire library gets loaded, wasting time and often space. Along with that, none of the library code can be inlined, massively impacting speed (modern cpus are optimized around accessing contiguous data in memory). And then there's the well known issue of 'DLL Hell' where two installed applications expect different versions of a library. There are security concerns, too, but they aren't specific to dynamic linking (see "On Trusting Trust" by Ken Thompson). Applications can't ensure that the library it's linking against has the code it expects. However, you would need permission to write to the root filesystem, and if you have that there's a lot worse you could do than replace some object files.

[@arunabhamukhopadhyay7755]

you are absolutely right. I tried vlc with snap, and it was such bad experience that i uninstalled everything related to snap from my ubuntu machine. this particular machine only has 8gigs of ram, and every time i launched vlc, the ram usage shot up to whopping 60%, even android studio didn't need that much ram to operate as needed by vlc.

[@linux42069]

I actually removed the brave install I had on an older box in favor of it's snap recently. surprisingly it ran faster while using less resources. I'm sure this isn't true in every instance, but it makes it clear to me that snap is not a hog if accounted for properly

[@dougbeney6399]

Snap/Flatpaks were created because other package repositories couldn't git gud like Arch/AUR

[@xombsd3396]

Arch is arch debian is Debian. Ubuntu is trying to figure it out. The thing I like about Linux is all the choice. What I can't stand is the constant whining. Openbsd for most everything I do. Arch gentoo for everything else.

[@DmitriyZelinskiy]

"git: 'gud' is not a git command. See 'git --help'", it didn't work, any suggestions? :P

[@tokiomutex4148]

@Alex Hucker You can have Debian acting as a rolling release, just switch branches

[@FeedScrn]

Why should everybody who has a different distro - have to deal with unique package managers? One or two is better.... Maybe they are not perfect, but it's a good concept in theory.

[@guilbaultfrederic440]

IMO it's Cuz devs are too lasy to go throu the quality review process of getting their app approved by the debian and prefer distribute low quality snaps. Those process ARE huge PITA and time consuming... but that's what quality is.

[@Eyetrauma]

“You should be going to your image folder and getting that one xkcd...” No you should never be doing that.

[@u7w2]

I just got Xubuntu, and did an "apt install chromium".... the "apt-get" command installed chromium using snap... tf?! haha I came from debian where I was used to one simple package manager or make files/binaries in a tar.gz... considering Manjaro next lol, should I?

[@hotpil7020]

You can use Debian repo and install chromium from there. Ubuntu has decided to use snap for Chromium ubuntu.com/blog/chromium-in-ubuntu-deb-to-snap-transition

[@douwehuysmans5959]

>using Chromium

[@andreasklindt7144]

In Manjaro you can tell the package manager NOT to use flatpack or snap - in fact it is deactivated by default (as is aur).

[@noided9381]

ᶠᵉᵈᵒʳᵃ regards, an ex manjaro/arch/tumbleweed user

[@u7w2]

update... now using gentoo and arch. Fuck Ubuntu

[@mavhunter8753]

I thought I was the only one feeling this way... I remember Lennart Poettering advocating for universal package managers five years ago.

[@mavhunter8753]

@@marioschroers7318 I agree. It's just something about him...

[@doxanthropos]

If Poettering advocates for something I instantly get suspicious. Everything he touches, even the things that go well, seem to move Linux into a direction that is very different from both GNU and Unix and more like the two main commercial OSs.

[@mavhunter8753]

@@doxanthropos Yeah, like his silly comments about getting rid of POSIX...

[@happygofishing]

​@@doxanthroposGNUs not Unix

[@kaywee]

systemd-pkg

[@FranLMSP]

2:40 Linus Torvalds uses Fedora lmao

[@PixelTrik]

@NOZY I don't have any idea on people hate on it either since Gentoo works for me, I did not tried it.

[@vrilgod4176]

@NOZY Fedora also has RPMFusion which is like AUR except everything is checked and audited.

[@Bo15307]

@@vrilgod4176 The problem is that there is not nearly as much packages there as there is PKGBUILDS in the AUR

[@partsmob8663]

The CS department at my uni dual boots OSX and fedora on 2011 imacs :-)

[@FranLMSP]

I know that Luke was just joking, but it was funny for me because the creator of Linux uses Fedora with Gnome, a DE that is also hated, lol

[@livb4139]

Never heard of them either. Turning off video here 1:45 unironically

[@_MPP_]

So glad I don't need any of these bullshit packages. Pacman + couple packages from AUR has been enough for me as a CS student.

[@tokiomutex4148]

And some docker images

[@tokiomutex4148]

@solarMan I am sure docker has better documentation

[@ezio934]

@@tokiomutex4148 At this point KVM machines are literally perfect. You can run macOS with all their service, windows 10 for games, I even use it for programming. I don't think I will ever use docker.

[@pt8306]

Docker is it's own special brand of hell, especially when you deal with things like user permissions for your containerised files. I use it on my server and it definitely sucks in many ways. Was thinking of switching to "native" apps instead

[@josecuevas28]

Luke as a long time supporter (I changed accounts) I can pretty confident tell you not to change your equipment. Your boomer aesthetic keeps me back to your channel, 4K ultra lighting with suit and animations and shit is ultra cringe.

[@klimenkodr123]

If I could like a comment twice, I would have liked this one. I also like the webcam footage in mpv (or whatever it is). Video editing aka post production is super cringe too. Better invest the time into that garden of yours than improving your "content creator" set up. P.S. I'm not telling Luke what to do with his life, I'm just clarifing that the way he makes videos is perfect as is.

[@xslayer91]

Seems like a lot of times when people get into increasing video image quality, the video content quality decreases.

[@Filaxsan]

@@xslayer91 The YT resolution paradox.

[@Gornius]

I'm pretty sure AppImages work a bit different. It's not package manager, but a file you can run that have all needed dependencies that run independently from your OS.

[@gplastic]

Yeah they're annoying but idk why he's lumping it in with them. It doesn't break anything.

[@nan0m373r]

@@evertonsap They can be turned into portable applications very easily, but it is not their default behavior. They still keep their data in your normal XDG paths. Yes, the lack of easy updating is an issue for now, but they have something planned for that.

[@swagar]

That still would have the issues with outdated and insecure dependencies and the instability due to not using system libraries, wouldn't it?

[@KETZERLORD]

this was actually one of the major reasons for me to stay on arch, as you had to look up on a per program basis whether it was ppa/snap/flatpak/appimage that actually shipped a somewhat recent version, and of course that would change over time. a true nightmare

[@camberwellcarrot420]

That Brodie guy looks like Rasputin trying to bend you to his will with his gaze.

[@headphonejack9479]

The "dumb soy dev" voice never gets old.

[@raleighcunningham2538]

For most consumers/everyday users, yes, I agree (enough). But deployment/testing etc for corporate dev teams these are valuable. Just depends on use case. Just like any tech

[@SpookySkeleton738]

One thing I've always noticed is that anything intended to make something "more convenient" invariably ends up causing a lot of problems because it's taking upon itself all the complexity that is usually delegated to the user. For example, when my audio's not working on my Arch install, I dart straight for the ALSA config file because I know that's what's controlling all the audio. On Ubuntu? I'm lost as I attempt to navigate the hellmaze of Pulse and its relationship with ALSA and maybe Jack as well if I'm especially unlucky. The "system" may be more convenient, but when something goes wrong (which it will) the added complexity of that convenience makes it ten times more frustrating.

[@ari-athbadminton0301]

The Real convenience is the simplicity to TROUBLESHOOT.

[@swagar]

Everyone blew their load getting annoyed about Snaps five years ago, but no one thought they would catch on unless they worked for Canonical. I feel like there would be more outrage but we keep forgetting these formats still exist, because like, they're a dumb idea that should have died off by now.

[@classicrockonly]

Linux package management is one of the reasons why I recently switched to FreeBSD

[@0x7A69]

FreeBSD is SoyBSD, OpenBSD is ChadBSD.

[@classicrockonly]

Lol I figured the Linux fanboys would get triggered

[@Ganerrr]

i wouldn't put appimage in there, its literally just a binary that's slightly more compatible

[@supergamer1123]

I've been waiting for someone to point this out. Thanks for being a voice of reason

[@ScaryHutmanPictures]

"BSD is what you get when a bunch of Unix hackers sit down to try to port a Unix system to the PC. Linux is what you get when a bunch of PC hackers sit down and try to write a Unix system for the PC." This becomes more and more true from year to year

[@vincentbentley1079]

I have been a FreeBSD user since summer of '94, Linux a few months later. I didn't really have a preference until systemd. Now I rarely use Linux at all.

[@vincentbentley1079]

@@1d10tcannotmakeusername To some degree yes. There is a Linux binary compatibility option available when compiling a FreeBSD kernel. If you can build your system entirely from source natively on FreeBSD there is not much of a need for it.

[@vincentbentley1079]

@@1d10tcannotmakeusername I just upgraded to Gnome 3.38 on a 32 bit FreeBSD 12.1 that I have on an 11 year old Samsung netbook. It has 2GB RAM, SSD, ZFS with Boot Environments and jails. There is a learning curve, best way is to use Poudriere to get maximum customisation and install from pkg. I use Ansible for config management.

[@AzVidsPro]

I agree. But one or 2 appimages won't hurt. Also screw electron. Why don't people just learn c, c++, python(optimized and not write lazy code),rust and not use bulky frameworks.

[@AmirulAbu1]

i can't wait till luke smith discovers docker 😲

[@crinklywrappr]

I think Bryan Lunduke is driving a lot of the AppImage love. He's billing it as a way to give packages a longer lifespan: eg 15 years or more. Personally, I wish more thought had been given to Linux backward compatibility from the start, but maybe this is a solution going forward. There doesn't appear to be a large organization behind AppImage, so maybe it's less suspect in that regard?

[@personanongratis]

Lunduke sucks!

[@lukasblacklock8494]

@@personanongratis Mature and helpful criticism!!

[@douwehuysmans5959]

So when are you switching to OpenBSD?

[@luiscruz149]

Premieres are incredibly annoying please don't use them

[@daniloscapellato]

At first I thought it was a livestream, but okay. What annoys me the most are the comments because it makes us not pay attention to the whole video and makes us miss the points he talked about.

[@prostagma3132]

wth is a premiere?

[@luiscruz149]

@@prostagma3132 it's a feature that when a video is published, it forces everyone to watch at the same time (like a livestream) so you can't skip, change the view speed, and there's an annoying chatbox next to the video

[@thelavasailor]

It is always amazing how XKCD represents these kind of things so well. Also: Snappopolis? LOL!

[@elementalnova7418]

>Fedora? Do people even use that? What do they have, yum? dnf and oof

[@mr.squishy5024]

I still use yum because of habit.

[@zackinator1439]

"Do people even use that?" Well, Linus Torvalds does I believe.

[@DmitriyZelinskiy]

Nice, gonna switch to Fedora! cuz it's faster to type dnf than pacman.

[@Jothinantha]

@@DmitriyZelinskiy haha Just Alias pacman to p and sudo pacman to P

[@4.0.4]

Look, I get the appeal. If it's 3 in the morning and I need some stubborn software to just work, I much rather this than editing some makefile to get some snowflake software to compile into a working version.

[@LloydLynx]

I think you might be from a different universe, I swear you were talking about these a year or so ago, yet you've only heard about them in the last few months.

[@Karuso33]

Im fairly sure AppImage is just a way to bundle all of your dependencies into one executable, which sometimes is really convenient. There is no "permanent install" on your system in that sense (at least not one im aware of).

[@pt8306]

The only "permanent install" is that it can store configuration files etc in your $HOME and $HOME/.config directories.

[@powerfulaura5166]

I really don't mind them, they ensure simple cross-distro deployment & backwards compatibility (one of GNU/Linux's bigger weaknesses).

AppImage is actually useful for companies making a simple tool. (F.e. for special keyboards, wooting uses appimage for their config tool and it actually works fantastic. This way they don't need to setup a repository and the user just downloads a single file. Like the way it works over on windows). However these shouldn't become an extra package manager/platform, agreed.

[@migtrewornan8085]

I purged snap from my computer after the last major upgrade and I suddenly started seeing all this crap appearing in lsblk - didn't know what snap was but one look at that and I knew I didn't want anything to do with it.

This channel has the best thumbnail generator ever.

[@busterbrown8830]

Maybe Luke should checkout the NIXOS & GUIXOS to be really GNU compliant.

[@РустемФахрутдинов-ш8ш]

This

GUIX + hurd. I'd love to see that 😂

[@MrBiky]

>Do people in the world actually exist who use Fedora? Linus Torvalds, Wendell from Level1Techs, some other folks and this person over here on my work laptop (my distro of choice is Void).

[@dankwarrior211]

I am having Flatpak on my Arch. The thing is the Spotify package from AUR is flagged out of date and you can't actually download it. That's why I use it.

[@ropersonline]

10:00 Oh hey @Luke Smith: It actually gets worse: Once a sizeable part of the Linux crowd moves to these "container" technologies, you may easily find that often it won't be the case anymore that the maintainers just keep traditional repos up to date. So there's a brain drain too where the "just use flatsnapspaks" siren song may well lure people away and undermine things and reduce the actively repo-maintaining volunteer workforce.

[@michaellk2254]

Reason why you should use fedora: it has a fantastic blue light filter. This should be enough for the switch.

[@LukeSmithxyz]

Redshift runs on every distro.

[@mrmysteryguest]

Both Flatpak and Snaps are relatively new (~4-5years), Appimage were rebranded or forked from Klik / noinstall / click-n-run which were around in 2006 or so, pretty sure Lindows / Linspire and others used them

[@AngeredKabar]

I'll say about 15 years ago when I was running Slackware and was building custom binaries for my box, the process of hunting down dependencies kinda gave me the idea of installing everything for a package to its own root and distributing a tarball. If you think about it for longer than a second it's dumb.

[@AsciiWolf]

Flatkill.org is full of crap and as far as I know was made by a Canonical employee that on the other hand recommends using Snap. Also, there are many problems with traditional Linux packages and Flatpak resolved some of the biggest issues.

[@osgrov]

First we got SystemD.. Then we got SnapD.. What's next from our Linuxy overlords? I really don't want to know.

[@ezio934]

SystemD Linux....

[@guilbaultfrederic440]

They are coming with a systemD based configuration manager.... Im not even joking.

[@gustavojoaquin_arch]

inmutable distro xd, this is even worse

[@5slight]

This is such an important angle on the topic that other youtubes don't seem discuss! I've heard people talking about these package formats for a few years but not even considered using them as on the desktop I'm using arch and it just has everything. On a server I use Debian as I want stability and then I just add third party repos for things I want more up to date. Why would I need snaps or flatpack? Surely there is a lot of people that feel like this.

[@somethingsinlife5600]

Long story short: Flatpaks and snaps are apps that basically come with their own "Operating system". These apps pull in their operating system with the dependencies. That's how you end up with multiple security risks because you didn't update all of your operating systems. You should be updating only one Operating System.

[@ishanagarwal475]

Do even know what an operating system is?

[@noided9381]

@@ishanagarwal475 apparently the same as a package manager (also flatpak uses the same dependencies as the base system if they are installed)

The problem they were trying to solve was the classic dependency hell. The problems they brought about was an even worse dependency hell, and now policy hell too. The only reason dependency hell happened in the classic package managers was that people installed repositories for different distributions.

[@GhostlyTeehee]

2:56 Petition for Luke Smith to do a video on fedora

[@dlarge6502]

In the 25 or so years I've used GNU/Linux I have never got Fedora to boot, live, even once :D It never seemed to like my choice of hardware and would crash during boot.

[@combat3252]

I think there's a disconnect here on who flatpaks are for, as there is no reason that any Arch user would ever use a flatpak other than troubleshooting or that being the only option. When you're on Linux Mint or a more normie distribution with minimal core customization the flatpaks you pull from the "store" are generally going to run fine and stick a pretty icon in your programs menu like everything else. Snap is cancer and needs to die though, performs worse than flatpak and requires SystemD for no reason.

[@musthavechannel5262]

On ubuntu my mouse cursor is terrible in snap apps and I can't seem to change it. AND Firefox installed through snap cannot access internet when expressvpn is running, there is no solution for it for now. About snap/flatpack adoption, you are 100% correct. I came across snap/flatpack when I wanted to install latest version of a software on my ubuntu machine but I had old version of dependencies which some other app depended on.

[@paulo.manrique]

No Luke, the first point for these formats is to distribute software with libs and not having a problem with outdated (or updated) conflicting libs. Also, Snaps and Flatpaks run applications on isolation. I suggest you take a look on Fedora Silverblue, the concept of immutable systems, etc.

[@Rustyuoiman]

I find it humorous this boomer has a chalkboard and not a whiteboard . I find it comforting I'm not the only one.

[@adamkoxxl]

@@killaken2000 that's for internal use only

[@cmatthew91]

I feel the same in my work: containers everywhere, no thinking. I hate snap as well

[@ashishthapa529]

In beginning I distro-hopped a lot, Settled in manjaro just because or AUR. and i'm stuck in Arch and Artix things just because of AUR. I love it. :)

[@lukej7856]

1:08 Lol I only found out about flatpaks like a few months ago and now it seems like they're everywhere. I think they've just gained a ton of traction rly quickly - especially in tutorials for some reason (possibly for standardization? idk).

[@yoshikhurazi1769]

The only point that I needed to hear to completely write off this whole concept is the fact that these alleged sandboxing managers allow applications to have write permissions to your home directory without your explicit permission. Yikes. That's abysmal. Literally worse than the permission model you get in the most recent versions of Android or iOS and those are bloody smartphones/telemetry toys.

[@benjaminbras7475]

This is exactly one of the reasons i moved from Ubuntu to arch. Instead of everything being packaged for apt. Then everytime i had to install something i had to figure out where i could install a package that actually worked and was being maintained.

[@adarshiyer4805]

I 100% agree with Snap Flatpak, but AppImages imo are worth the extra thing to worry about bc u literally have to only know chmod +x and run the file. Doesn't hurt and it could be good for getting certain large corporate applications I need for school that are the only reason I keep a dual booted windows with linux, since its easier for the corp to just make the one AppImage

[@eta0carinae]

appimage is not a package manager, it's a portable binary format. you just chmod +x it and start the program. easily the best solution imo

[@TAUROSish]

Now you can download your program from a website. Download the installer and packages you won't need. You can install multiple versions of the same library. This is just as easy as downloading an executable and using the installation wizard on Windows. Very innovative!

[@justinsuvoy]

😂🤣😂🤣😂 This is outstanding!!! 🤣 Best yet...my side hurts from laughing soooo much! 😂 Luke I watched a live stream of yours when you were asked about Fr. Seraphim Rose- next week I'll upload a video about him if you're interested(it won't be Flat or Snappy though). I'll also talk about my experience w/ West Coast Orthodoxy and direct involvement with monastics etc. that knew Fr. Seraphim. Keep up the great content and hang loose in the 4th demension!!!💥👊😎👍💥

[@ethanbroussard]

The single program I still keep windows 10 around for provides an appimage file for linux, the problem is it only works on ubuntu. Why in all hell would you have an appimage that only works on one distro?? Defeats the whole purpose of appimages

[@nly8286]

Akfuly its a GNU/Linux based conspiracy theory

[@wesleyrm]

2:44 BRO I got into your channel to learn vim recently. This last day I asked a 'coworker' which distro he had, the GUI seemed like yours. Turns out he uses fedora, didn't go into details lol

[@TheGruselmops]

Yeah, I was hoping you were going more into it!

[@volt8399]

No Thanks. Any OS that enforces this in the future will be ignored.

[@FeedScrn]

Snaps / Flatpak provide a common approach - no matter what distro you are on..... In theory I believe that it's a great idea.... Give them some time and I'm sure that they will iron out the wrinkles.

[@volt8399]

@@FeedScrn No thanks, I am not looking to bring a commonality to the distros. I enjoy the diversity.

[@FeedScrn]

@@volt8399 - The story is that - they all started with a common code set- Linux... then as soon as they got it, they all developed different package dist. systems... To me this smacks of chaos and a lack of communication / competitiveness between them... really to all of their detriment, including the users.

[@dubbeltumme]

tl;dr : If these things where used correctly they could keep the normal package repositories leaner and cleaner. But they are not used or pushed correctly, and it will as you say, just get worse... I think the main reason for these things are that Ubuntu/Fedora noticed a lot of users switching to Manjaro because vidya is impossible to install on a "stable" (old) linux distro and kernel. Especially if you want to play newer windows games through wine. Installing proprietary games the regular way, would mean pulling tons of packages just for one thing to work. And in that context I think there is a reason for these things to exist. And maybe in the future, it might be possible to install like "Adobe CS" or some pro windows only DAW, with this method. That would be better then: pacman -S photoshop

[@ulissemini5492]

on my ubuntu server snapd came preinstalled, taking up 1.3GB wtf

[@knightrider585]

In general I agree, putting evey app in a container is dumb. But for some use cases containerisation is great. It solves lots of problems around having various apps with diferent dependencies running in an enterprise environment. And I use a plex container running in docker for my media server. This means I can have a cron script that updates the container weekly and I don't have to worry about managing the host system it runs on.

[@mahdi7d1rostami]

And then Ubuntu suddenly decides to ship Firefox (The main thing I use on my computer) as a snap. Breaking everything. I couldn't simply install Gnome extensions the way I used to do and wrestled with selenium (automation library) for a day because when I tried it recently it wouldn't work with the Firefox that is shipped with Ubuntu.

[@buntun3670]

waiting for Luke to actually play the video

[@tohur]

3 years later I can say from expirence of creating my own distro the past couple months ALL the pain points for flatpak were in FACT not a flatpak issue but a distro issue.. I have figured out its on the distro to preconfigure things so its super transparent to the user.. integrating themes to flatpak... A distro issue, making sure there are sane defaults on permissions so the user very rarely ever has to open a app like flatseal or what not.. a distro issue. the various distros out their need to start preconfiguring things for flatpak if they are aiming to be a distro for "dummies"

[@d3stinYwOw]

Second thing - what if your application depends on feature which was on earlier version of library, and then it was removed? AppImages solves that, but package manager will left you with not working software.

[@porky1118]

I kind of agree, but AppImages are nice, since AppImage is just an executable, a single file, which does include all of it's dependencies. So it's good to supply software, which you would not update regularly, like games. UnityHub is supplied as an AppImage, and it's probably the best they could do.

[@mattias3668]

If every snap package pulls in a new copy if each dependency, are does it at least statically link the binaries?

[@ianhamilton350]

I think that's up to the developers of each package to decide

[@mattias3668]

@@ianhamilton350 Yes, but do they? I would only expect soydevs to package their software for snap, but I wouldn't expect them to do so unless told to do so.

[@PatrikKron]

I think flatpak and simular help with a few problems: conflicting dependencies (where you need more than one version), old only security patched dependencies on “slow release” distribution and with proprietary software only packaged for Debian based distributions. That being said, with snap the programs can become huge just because of duplicate dependencies. I also have had problems with AppImage packaged software that “should” include all dependencies, but still did not work, in the end I ran it from a docker container instead (still the appimage, since that was the only way the software was packaged, but with all dependencies tacked on).

[@daniloscapellato]

Fun fact: you still need the repo to install snap and flatpak support. Cool, eh?

[@porky1118]

Some program I'd like to install, but it has two problems: * it uses systemd * it's only supplied using snap by default (which also requires systemd) (and my system was not based on systemd, so it does not have snap nor the program in the repos)

[@ilyasazonov3901]

As far as I understand all that stuff is not about The One True Package Manager, but about having several version of a software installed simultaneously. You can't do that with apt or with yum or whatever

[@VictorRodriguez-zp2do]

Appimages are not hard at all. You can pretty much see them as a really big executable that works in pretty much any system. Flatpak is also quite easy to use, you just install flatpak and then whichever package you want. I use arch but I also use some flatpaks. The reason being because browsing flathub I found something interesting, I thought "Why not try it?" and just went ahead and installed it. You might argue that it would have been better to install it from the AUR, but that's not always the case some packages from the AUR are either outdated or can cause problems - this is not often the case but it happens sometimes, and for those few cases having an easy alternative is simply a plus in my opinion.

[@hanes2]

What’s also happens nowadays is that more and more use wrappers to a repo to actually use NPM Or PIP for their software.

[@Filaxsan]

Upgrading the camera?! What's next, installing fedora?

[@user-ex6xc5ox3k]

Been waiting for this vid for a while. These drive me up the wall.

[@marcosiedentopf8203]

Flatpack is awesome. You can get Chrome with it. And spotify, discord and minecraft!

[@guilbaultfrederic440]

you seeing shining features and missing the point. You should try the microsoft store, im sure you gonna love it.

[@marcosiedentopf8203]

@@guilbaultfrederic440 seems like you don't see the sarcasm

[@guilbaultfrederic440]

@@marcosiedentopf8203 oh crap, sorry. my bad lol

[@anukranan]

What if the universal package manager is just an extra tool that helps you compile unavailable packages from source...

[@tingxyu]

AppImage is designed for developers in mind to run an app across distros, so the developers no longer need to render several packages for different distros. The outdated dependency issues is wholly depends on developer's choice, it has nothing to do with AppImage itself. I hope this can justify a bit of misunderstanding from the video.

[@justinhall3243]

I am a 25 year Linux user that started out compiling my packages on Slackware. I am 52 now and just do not have the patience for that kind of thing. I have long since moved on to SuSE, then to open SuSE and finally Tumbleweed. I ran into a problem. SuSE for legal reasons wont ship proprietary codecs. It is what is and I am not losing sleep over it, I understand their reasoning. The solution these last 15 years or so is to add in the packman repo. That is great except this two repos get out of sync, carry many of the same packages and essentially stomp all over each other. I have run into them both fighting over Mesa so many times I am sick of it. My solution, install the media playing apps that need those codecs like VLC from flatpak and just don't even use packman. So yeah this old Linux veteran finds flatpaks an acceptable solution.

[@michaelplaczek9385]

Isn't the point of a universal packaging systems (like snap and flatpak and appimage) is to allow packages to run on most distros?

[@aereleus3262]

sup luke. In your previous video you showed how you had the monero blockchain and was thinking about getting the ethereum blockchain aswell. now i could be considered a data hoarder like you (downloading huge amount of movies or TV shows instead of streaming) but never thought of downloading blockchains. Why would you download them?

[@quickapp4795]

If you cant handle dependencies in your project offer a static build if possible, next big project is to make a script that pre links these and throws away the source image but optional dependencies might throw a wrench in that.

[@absolutelyproprietary6896]

2:45 Linus torvalds uses fedora