TROGDOR NTSC NO DUALSHOCK PROOF OF CONCEPT

[@redgh]

This is extremely unoptimized and it is most definitely possible. People have fc'd up to the orange before without tas. All someone would need to do is pause on the orange recalibrate once and then time their inputs well. some people i talked to thought they wouldn't be able to pause during the strumming. A method I came up with to get around that is basically you grab two guitars, go into pro face off mode and lay the other guitar on the ground. Then you can hit the pause button with your foot and use it as a pause foot pedal.

[@GlawiPawi]

I don't think you even need a second guitar, I feel like that pause menu could be seen as a score squeeze star power activation, getting the timing down with enough practice.

[@acai28]

This is absolutely insane. This would be an out of world achievement

[@aWiseMoose]

I KNEW LAG ABUSE WOULD MAKE THIS POSSIBLE! Awesome to see that theory proven right, this is pretty fucking sick to see

[@jnackmclain]

This is vile and incredible

[@cicabeot1]

I know this is never gonna happen in a real, TAS-less run. But that is insane.

[@redgh]

This is extremely unoptimized and it is most definitely possible. People have fc'd up to the orange before without tas. All someone would need to do is pause on the orange recalibrate once and then time their inputs well

[@supermarble94]

@@redgh I've FCed to about 1/3rd of the way in the orange streak before. I'm genuinely tempted to try this. I'd have to get some hardware for it but this looks doable, even without the pro face-off guitar pause "footpedal".

[@redgh]

Yeah, I think it's probably possible without proface off mode too it's just multiple people I've asked about It were skeptical that they would be able to pause during the strumming so it's just an alternate strategy for those who don't think they can.

[@tStevester83]

HE'S BEGINNING TO BELIEVE

[@parkourboio1062]

slippi on your desktop, based

[@redgh]

Someday I will switch off of playing ult and start playing melee. I find both games really fun it's just My controller has some bad snapback issues

[@CyanCrayonGH]

I was talking about this with aWiseMoose not too long ago, cool to see it on video haha

[@ElysaraCh]

i see a lot of discussion around the pausing like it's hard to pause during the streak but really the hard part is UNpausing and resuming strumming frame perfectly. I don't see this being done in real time any time soon, even knowing now that it's possible.

[@ElysaraCh]

also, if you have working TAS tools for GH2, can you test if the last SP in Psychobilly Freakout is possible, that's another mystery from the old days that I'd love to see confirmed or disproven

[@redgh]

1. gh2's hit window is 100 milliseconds. you can set the delay up to around 250 milliseconds. if you fc up to the orange then set the delay to like 150 milliseconds, the whole hit window is moved back by more than 1x itself. this means that you would have 50 miliseconds untill you could hit the notes. that gives a decent bit of wiggle room and not frame perfect. 2. I don't really have good tas tools. the frame advance on pcsx2 has a 4 frame advance delay meaning i have to advance 4 times for inputs to register. it also the input replay desyncs really easy also i do not know about this activation i would need some more information. i wish you luck if you deside to embark on that challenge but i do not have much interest in using pcsx2 again at the moment.

[@ElysaraCh]

@redgh the thing about frame perfect isn't just the unpause, you also have to resume strumming frame perfectly at the correct speed from nothing, since you can't be strumming in the pause menu. (Also this isn't me saying no one will ever do it, just that this is crazy hard!) The activation is the last SP in PbFo, the old tools claimed it was possible to get half a gauge off just that phrase for an additional activation but nobody has ever done it.

[@supermarble94]

I've successfully gotten the unpause without breaking streak, a couple times in fact. it works. I posted a video of me doing just that, though it was on a -2 run.

[@supermarble94]

👀 Do I need to break out my old Xbox 360 and start grinding?

[@redgh]

YOOOOOOOOO I WAS HOPING YOU WOULD SEE THIS!!! I haven't tested this on xbox360 but it probably works.

[@supermarble94]

​@@redghCan confirm it works. Got a couple runs with the whole orange streak fced, and a couple runs fced up to the end of the blues. Only a matter of time.

[@nicco77rams]

HOLY SHIT WHAT????? Incredible find holy hell

[@broran_]

You think this is possible on Xbox 360? I guess the adapter I got for my Wiitar allows me to plug it into my 360 via an Xplorer, as weird as that sounds, and I'm able to use the pause button on the Xplorer with my foot while using the Wiitar to actually play in solo quickplay... 🤔

[@redgh]

This is most likely also possible on Xbox 360. I've heard various times that this strum limit is just a bit trickier on Xbox 360 compared to PS2, but it should still be possible

[@notsubbydude]

I love this

[@qwomp]

no shot this is crazy LOL whoever pulls this off will have to train for a thousand years

[@redgh]

I made a pinned comment explaining how this is a lot more possible than most people believe If you're interested

[@Sam_Hue]

Obligatory Technoblade reference

[@redgh]

@@Sam_Hue oh my God I didn't even catch that

[@andrewsrgt4879]

GENIUS

[@JasperTV]

Are the super old videos of people doing it fake?

[@redgh]

yeah most likely

[@jdsmitty325]

Iconic

[@donutdunker7294]

Nah this is ridiculous 💀 If anyone actually finds a way to do this in a real run i will personally send them $10,000 USD

[@redgh]

You should not make that bet. This is actually not that hard. This is completely unoptimized

[@donutdunker7294]

@redgh Lol I know, I was just joking, but still, I'd hope you're right when you say it's not that difficult! 👀

[@redgh]

​@@donutdunker7294 I made a pinned comment explaining a little bit more

[@MTN6516]

Red what in fucks name have you discovered

[@Bradmasta]

Excuse me what???

[@pndaMobby]

what

[@DougSalad]

If you're asking seriously: Guitar Hero 2 has a very tight timing window that shrinks when notes get closer together. It ALSO has a strum limit. This means the game limits how fast it will read strum inputs from the controller. The fast strumming in Trogdor is right at or slightly beyond the strum limit. Couple that with the precise, shrinking timing window, there is almost ZERO room for error for hitting these notes, literally down to thousandths of a second, and maybe not even possible at all. It's possible for sure on PAL region, because of 50hz shenanigans I don't understand. But the game ALSO allows you to re-calbrate for lag mid-song without restarting. Which means that with perfect timing (literally frame by frame seen in this video), you can hit some of the notes, re-calibrate (which moves the timing window to be beyond the time the strum limit is in effect), then repeat as needed to hit them all.

[@redgh]

​@@DougSaladI would not say it needs perfect timing as this is kind of unoptimized as pcsx2 has a lot of input delay. I could have definitely used the hopos sooner and paused sooner. Still very precise but there are definitely a couple frames of wiggle room.

[@DougSalad]

@@redgh yeah my B, I overgeneralized that TAS-ness of it all when I said "perfect timing". I more meant that it requires timing that is incredibly unlikely, though I guess not technically impossible, for a human to achieve. Maybe "near perfect" or "superhuman" would have been a little more appropriate wording.

[@redgh]

​​@@DougSaladI just made a pinned comment explaining how this is more possible than most people believe if you're interested

[@Damstructions-funny]

Can someone catch me up? I have no clue what's happening ;>;

[@Ivanfesco]

same

[@galacticboy2009]

Same, no idea what I'm looking at. Playing Guitar Hero 2 in an emulator, with a keyboard AND a guitar controller.. frame by frame as to create a tool assisted speedrun. That's about all I've got.

[@chastermief839]

Trogdor in Guitar Hero 2 is infamous for being impossible to Full Combo (FC) because of oversights with how the note timing windows interact with the strum limit. The NTSC version of GH2 has a strum limit of 15.5 notes per second. The fast strumming part at the end of the solo (where Strong Bad says, "Squeedly Wins!") goes just over that, so it's impossible to hit on NTSC. This isn't an issue on some versions of the game, just the NTSC (the one released in North America), it's been proved to be possible on the PAL version for some time now. As far as I'm aware, the prevailing opinion for the last couple decades or so was that this song was literally impossible to complete on this version of the game with the original guitar controllers that came with GH2. IIRC it was FC'd about 3 years ago, but the person was using a modded controller to bypass the strum limit (because this was believed to be literally the only way to get the FC, it's still impressive). Obviously the song chart isn't actually that difficult (if you load it up in Clone Hero it's a breeze) but back in 2006 when American kids were opening up their copies of GH2 for the first time, there was literally no way to beat the song FC. Or, so we thought, I guess. This video disproves that theory. This person is using a technique to reset the strum limit by using the calibration tool in the menu, thus bypassing the issue. It's only a proof of concept, because they've artificially slowed down the rate the game plays, but in theory a human could execute all of these inputs. It just requires some really precise timing of pressing pause during a section where you're strumming orange notes really fast. People tap the back (or select, on playstation) button to activate star power all the time so this seems very feasible, it's not like a TAS-only strat or something.

[@Ivanfesco]

@@chastermief839 very cool! I'm very much a tourist here I got recommended this randomly by the algo but this is very interesting, thanks for the info!!

[@redgh]

​​@@chastermief839very good explanation but one note. It isn't resetting the strum limit but rather moving back the actual hit window. This manipulation of the hit window lets you hit the notes a lot later than you would normally be able to. It's basically just making hit window bigger

[@SearedBite]

lol