Trolled by a Flat Earther - Objectivity 280

Brady and Keith investigate how an experiment to prove the Earth's curvature led to years of death threats and libel for the scientist involved. More links below ↓↓↓
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Filmed at the Royal Society
Royal Society website: bit.ly/Royal_Society
Films by James Hennessy and Brady Haran
In 1870 Alfred Russel Wallace FRS proved to John Hampden that the Earth has curvature, by undertaking the Bedford Levels experiment. Hampden refused to acknowledge the results, and spent much of the next decade defaming and threatening Mr Wallace and his family.
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[@margathapai4010]

Imagine being so wrong that someone digs up your tweets two hundred years from now and puts them on display to show others how wrong you are.

[@sethpeck7179]

The fact that I've never heard of Hampden before today lends a lovely thought that modern trolls and idiots will be forgotten with time.

[@73standard]

It definitely does give one hope.

[@fatsquirrel75]

Alternately, it's a little depressing that flat earther's from so long ago are still being heard today.

[@wishusknight3009]

@@fatsquirrel75 That and they have not actually found any new arguments in 300 years.

[@landspide]

"Trolls always hang around the bridge" solid gold.

[@mynamemylastname7179]

😂😂😂

[@viliamklein]

True to form, flerfs haven't moved past complaining about gravity to this day. And they continue to fail to pay up on bets they lose.

[@Nanomusheens]

Toon's 2nd Law Of Flerf -- "Flerf challenges are fake. No exceptions."

[@JACKHARRINGTON]

Which you wouldn't expect much responsibility from a flerf. They're not exactly scientists.

[@qkqk6954]

Check my playlist titled "ab" to see why this experiment doesnt prove a globe.

[@viliamklein]

@@qkqk6954 simply repeating the word "perspective" does not make observations of Earth's curvature go away.

[@qkqk6954]

@@viliamklein did you watch the part where he compared the girl's photos with and without zoom? Around halfway through the video.

[@MisterTingles]

who'd have thought the guy who's allergic to science and logic and reason would resort to verbal abuse and intimidation at the first sign of trouble... some things truly never change.

[@patricescattolin43]

Brady and Keith, like Batman and Robin. We tend to ignore it, but Keith's delivery is definitely part of the success of these episodes. A nice story well told.

[@brycechristensen2296]

I think Keith is Alfred. Brady is Robin. The Royal Society archive is definitely the Batcave. Isaac Newton is Batman.

[@oclipa]

When your epic troll gets recorded in the archives as a historical artifact...

[@adamplace1414]

My dad was fond of quoting Harry Truman's line: "The only thing new in the world is the history you don't know."

[@elago98]

Objectivity started uploading when I was still in high school and now I've got a grown-up job. Always a good time when Brady uploads here.

[@Qermaq]

Holy macaroni, Brady had a hand in raising you. Not sure how I feel about that but you definitely turned out interesting. ;)

[@wtspman]

Moral of the story: never take up surefire bets with people who are intellectually dishonest.

[@cj548]

Big cash prize if you can show one proof earth is a moving ball. Has been to u.s. court of law twice, both judges ruled the claimer had no proof. (As cleary stated by dozens of famous physicists) but hey I guess you don't want $100,000 right

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@cj548 You missed the point of the OP's comment, and still managed to prove it at the same time. You clumsy clown.

[@cj548]

@@ar_xiv i have the hidden valuable knowledge and the understanding. Since you didn't insult me I will give you one single channel. 'Witsit gets it'

[@jpe1]

@@cj548fyi, whatever you wrote in your original reply to the OP got your comment shadow banned, or outright deleted

[@cj548]

@@ar_xiv i have 200+ proofs earth is flat / stationary, fyi all you need is one proof for PROOF. There is not one single proof earth is moving or a baal. As stated by dozens of famous physicists

[@Jonassoe]

Hampden sounds exactly like modern Flat Earthers. If he had been alive today, he would have probably run a relatively succesful KZbin channel.

[@sunny_muffins]

Sadly but true.

[@deliciousrose]

It's fascinating to learn that we still face the same problems centuries apart, even with advancements in science and technology now. Makes me wonder if the flat earthers will still be found in space travel era.

[@susanne5803]

I'm curious with what they'll come up when leaving Earth. But maybe they'll stay behind believing everyone rocketing away will die.

[@PeterPete]

That's so funny. Everyone rocketing away can only happen in one's imagination - you can only dream it or see it on a screen. Human beings can't leave the Earth. We're all stuck here and we all have to live with it and put up with each other 👍👍👍@@susanne5803

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@PeterPete And how are you spending your vaulable time on this planet? By pretending the earth isn't a globe. Pitiful.

[@SAOS451316]

The thing is that they already don't believe that space travel is real even when nearly a thousand people have been to space and come back whole and hale. They believe that the Earth is flat while every other body is round, and that any evidence to the contrary is a trick, a mistake, an illusion, or explainable in a flat-earth framework. It's a deep-seated anti-intellectualism that evidence can never break through. It's very much the same with bigotry; there are people who consider themselves above logic, reason, evidence, and even faith, for their hatred and membership in the club is enough for them to not care. There is a significant overlap between flat-earthers and fascists for this very reason.

[@ramdynebix]

My current theory is that at least some of the flat earthers don’t believe things they have seen for themselves and are blinded by their one prejudices

[@blindleader42]

The number one go-to argument of FE to this day. "Proof by incredulity"

[@yommish]

That’s absurd!

[@lidular]

Haven't seen Brady on screen for a long time, that fit'o'tron 5000 lifestyle has worked wonders

[@forthrightgambitia1032]

9:53 "Seldom has so much boldness and force of invection been combined with gross ignorance" - ah, had he seen 2023

[@romanticbrain18]

Science worshippers will never be able to understand that no amount of peer reviewed papers, scientific research, testifiable expirments or expert community consensus is going to overcome pure philosophical and irrefutable truths. Because the above mentioned methods are mere tools of human experience and simply can not be imperative of societal behaviour. While the ethical axiom of private property ownership (aka owning your own body) regardless of your feeble personal opinion is not only the truth, but also imperative by nature. Any attempts to go against ethics would be discussed in the realm of metaphysics (in which they not even acknowledge, let alone understand it), leading into argumentative self-refutation due to the application of imperative and universal oughts derived from personal and time-limited human experiences.

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@romanticbrain18 May I have some Balsamic with that word salad?

[@johnopalko5223]

Flat Earthers: How can you possibly believe the Earth is round?!? Me: Because I understand physics and navigation.

[@Qermaq]

Flat Earthers: How can you possibly believe the Earth is round?!? Occam: Lemme give you a trim.

[@ReinoGoo]

Me: How can you possible believe the earth is not round? The shape and rotation is inscribed on the maps. The rotation is compensated for in the movement of the telescopes. The angle of level from the axis of rotation is changing with the latitude.

[@oldoddjobs]

Awful meme format used awfully, well done

[@DeathlyTired]

14 Hatherley Grove, Bayswater still exists, and is a rather nondescript three storey townhouse. There is no blue plaque commemorating it as the one-time residence of Mr. John Hampden.

[@TheRealInscrutable]

I'd have liked a deeper explanation of what was wrong with his anti-vax ideas. Were his statistics poor or were his samples bad? Or did he use data on same failed vaccines and apply it to the whole area?

[@Dziaji]

See: “Died Suddenly” or “Excess Deaths” or “vaxxed 2”

[@TheOwlman]

6:35 And when the flerfs repeated this experiment in modern times with the same result, the line in the video was "interesting" - nothing else, no explanation of how this worked on the magic pizza, and especially no admission that they are wrong. For my part, I shall ignore them until they produce a working map - architects planning a circular building don't switch to an AE projection to draw the plans so there is no reason for the flerfs to be using an AE projection for their map.

[@Chicken_Little_Syndrome]

No working map and making up and down Universal constants are two of the most obvious Flat-Earth flaws. The better argument (as Einstein knew) had to do with motion, not shape. If we didn't live in a yellow-journal, tabloid virtual reality, subjects like Flat Earth and curved space would be in the dustbin where they belong. Nikola Tesla and Pierre Duhem were right.

[@b4ux1t3-tech]

Does the Royal Society submit its works to the Internet Archive for digital archival? If not, is there a RS digital archive where we can see some of these things ourselves? I would love to share the opening poem with my wife, she'd get a kick out of it!

[@therealzilch]

Wonderful. As a shameless Darwin and Wallace fan I of course knew of this incident, and of Wallace's involvement with seances. But not in this detail, and I didn't know of his antivax views. Bravo. Glad I'm subscribed. Cheers from cool Vienna, Scott

[@synchronos1]

7:35 "[Hampden] trusted his referee, and his referee simply said 'Well, the Earth is flat, that's it'". Keith probably meant to say "round"?

[@qlqnen]

No, Hampden is the flat earther, so he had a "referee" who said it's flat and Hampden refused to even look through the telescope. At least that's how I took it.

[@synchronos1]

@@qlqnen no, that's not how it went. Both referees agreed on the result. You can see it in the text below the picture at 7:43. And the referees declared Wallace the winner.

[@synchronos1]

But it's somewhat unclear from the story how the winner was determined in the end. It's possible the referees only agreed that the drawn diagram was correct and did not agree on what it meant.

[@j0nthegreat]

just want to say, Brady, great job reading aloud. it's was excellently done.

[@drosprey]

Love the look Keith gave to the camera at the end

[@knifetoucher]

£500 in 1870 is equivalent to £75,000 today

[@MusicFanatical1]

Yes it struck me too that £500 must have been a huge sum back then.

[@markyager4357]

Very well filmed

[@RocketboyX]

Everything old is new again. Also nice to see that the Laws of Flerf have more or less always applied.

[@SAOS451316]

The flat earth types didn't deserve attention then and they still don't now. Anti-intellectualism is a big problem and talking about it in the way this video does is helpful; arguing with modern flat-earthers is not.

[@offdagrid877]

Pure historic scientific brilliance. love your videos with Keith

[@gsniroshan]

Fun and interesting video as always. Thank you!

[@scrotiemcboogerballs1981]

Thanks for sharing

[@Rubrickety]

Darwin and Wallace were fierce rivals- not regarding natural selection, but on the Best Beard competition circuit.

[@InforSpirit]

Age old stories of inflated egos, that wanted glory without any work. and True classic: I met charismatic fellow in a local pub...

[@andrewkepert923]

Brady’s love for dogs has extended to doggerel.

[@BLenz-114]

I LOVE Keith's glasses frames! Any chance we could get the make and model?

[@olafb7499]

"really quiet a nasty piece of work" 😮 that is some serious language I did not expect from this gentleman - I trust him in this matter regardless 😅

[@Paul71H]

Impressive that you got rock guitarist Steve Howe to be in your video. 🙂

[@juppipeltola5678]

I've been watching Objectivity for ages and since I first saw Keith, I haven't got rid of the thought he is a copy of Steve Howe 😅 As is Steve the best in his profession so is Keith. I just love the videos presenting him. Keep up the good work Brady (all of your channels 🫶🏼)

[@hebl47]

That's the problem with such fanatics - they have too much free time and they're prepared to waste it all on making your life hell.

[@theemissary1313]

Nice to know the behaviour of fundamentalists hasn't changed over the centuries.

[@teeteetuu94]

They stuck to their guns unwaveringly, just like how the text is deemed to be the absolute "unwavering truth". I guess you can say they have great fundamentals.

[@andie_pants]

Some things just never f%&#ing change.

[@mynamemylastname7179]

You havefrom a chick to a pork

[@peterfireflylund]

Depends on the vaccine and the disease. Some vaccines are miraculous, some are nice, some are not worth the trouble. Some vaccines are unexpectedly good - it turns out that some of them protect against more than they were designed to.

[@leoismaking]

I don't know what Sir Isaac was drinking that day... but whatever it was, I want one!

[@MikeAben]

"The more things change ..."

[@michaelwright2986]

Wallace's interest in spiritualism wasn't anti-scientific in his time, any more than astrology and alchemy were anti-scientific in the 1500s (well, some sorts of astrology, anyway). The anti-vaccination is a bit of surprise--was it a question of interpretation of statistics (the words used in the video were "less effective than claimed" which might easily be the case, since the immunity provided by smallpox vaccination even with the most modern vaccines didn't last more than a few years), or was it serious woo?

[@gerontodon]

What discoveries do you think have been made since Wallace's time that changed the status of spiritualism from scientific to unscientific?

[@xliquidflames]

I watch people like scimandan and mctoon that debunk flat earth and it seems the flat earthers have not changed at all in 200+ years.

[@brianlhughes]

Sundials operating the way they do at different latitudes isn't enough proof? If the Earth was flat we'd be seeing lots of Lahaina Noons instead of just 2 a year

[@markksargent]

Long Live Flat Earth

[@biggusdoggus]

Have you checked your emails recently?

[@EmersumBiggins]

Gotta lie to flerf 🌎

[@MrEjwheeler]

Flat earth died over 2000 years ago, didn't you get the memo?

[@peternakitch4167]

And Newton himself was not averse to a bit of trolling. Hampden shows that fundamentalism and trolling has always been with us. I suppose people don’t change much.

[@TomSnyder--theJaz]

Ya gotta love Keith. (you too, Brady ;) Cheers

[@robertpearce8394]

Nice Bamber Gascoigne tribute act.

[@PeterGaunt]

Have you ever thought of doing a video where Keith interviews you? Just a thought.

[@icepick117]

Trolls tend to hang around bridges!!!! Take that John Hampton you dead guy! Super interesting video!

[@ASSamiYT]

Keith: the sound of recorded truth. In that order.

[@Jallamedalla]

Interesting...

[@polares8187]

Brady you look incredibly healthy 💪💪 Nice going

[@Olhado256]

Not gonna lie, I saw the title and I immediately wondered why Objectivity is doing a video on Internet culture

[@MusicFanatical1]

Great episode. There's nothing new under the sun, eh? Easy to imagine that short letter to Wallace's wife as a tweet these days.

[@2009mouser]

8:59 Wow, and we thought modern KZbin comments were bad. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[@pyglik2296]

The same "arguments" as today: "How can you say something so stupid, when I know I am right?"

[@mcol3]

Keith's look at 13:11!

[@NoahSpurrier]

The volume on this video seems very low.

[@caesiumhklenn5845]

Though not a flat earther myself, what bothers me the most why as we stand on earth's surface, the earth looks flat into our own eyes? Is it some kind of optical illusion?

[@mikestewart4752]

I suspect, future theologians will discover that trolling has been practiced since the times of actual trolls. “Nice bridge ya got there!”

[@nexpro6985]

Many flat earthers to this day act in this manner.

[@WarpRulez]

Not much has changed in two hundred years.

[@ColinFlowers]

There are very very few people who genuinely believe Earth is flat. They get off on people desperately trying to explain why they are "stupid". "Flat earthers" mostly have the last laugh.

[@bigsarge2085]

My wife had a coworker who was a vehement flat-earther. When he learned we WEREN'T flat-earthers he aggressively referred to us as Sphere-tards every chance he got and patronizingly insulted our intelligence. We started intentionally asking him leading questions just to hear his absurd defense of flat-earth with wild "facts." 😄 Needles to say we don't associate with him any more.

[@mynamemylastname7179]

He couldn't have insulted your intelligence. That is none existant😂

[@GrandDawggy]

Yea my uncle seemed a bit mad when I brought up trig stones here in the UK until he calmed down and assured me that, though he can't remember there definitely an explanation as to how trig points accurate measurements can coexist with a flash earth. I gave up after that.

[@bigsarge2085]

@@GrandDawggy Talking with a true-believing flat earther is always a trip!

[@GrandDawggy]

@@bigsarge2085 😂 big true

[@WilliamBlakers]

Hmmm apple cider in the orchard? Not a bad idea.

[@sivansharma5027]

Wow! Electronic Dance Music Halley!

[@ReX-xt2q]

Damn Brady, you look good with white gloves.

[@EricPauker]

"There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics" Made famous by Mark Twain, who attributed it to British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli

[@brainhurts1]

If the earth was flat, maps would be accurate!

[@zekeslavens]

Keith looking great in the Gucci 🔥🔥

[@apcolleen]

14 heatherly Grove is a big townhouse

[@jonathanrichards593]

...with six letterboxes, so divided into little apartments, each probably worth well over £½m. Welcome to 21st century London! It seems Hatherley Grove was quite new in 1870, when Hampden was selling his pamphlets. The 25" survey done in 1862-65 shows that area where Hatherley Grove is now, as the rear gardens of houses on Pickering Place (now Queensway). The Pickering Place houses have in turn been replaced by much newer blocks of flats.

[@kidmohair8151]

this sort of behaviour has a long history going back to ancient Greece and beyond. Socrates was mocked by Aristophanes in The Birds.

[@sheltongolden4394]

Two reasons why people insist the Earth is flat: 1) They can't wrap their head around the idea / ignorance. 2) In their view, accepting that the world isn't flat challenges the existence of a creator. This is simply unacceptable to them, so the idea is denied without consideration.

[@SAOS451316]

A lot of them just think it's funny and will insist it's flat even though they know it's not. It's difficult to get actual statistics when people find the lie amusing but it seems to be at least half.

[@svenlima]

@Objectivity Maybe your design of a flat earth is wrong - maybe it's not a disc. Maybe it's a inverted cone (?). Let's make a compromise and design the world in a way that the region/area/surface that we inhabit is *exactly* the way the flat earthers say: 100% flat and circular with mountains of ice around that cyrcle etc. However: that aera would be a cut out part of a round planet of the size of the sun ... This theory would please both parties :-)) (Please don't write any comments about the physics of such a world - I know it).

[@tolkienfan1972]

Why didn't they have third parties without knowledge of the purpose describe what was seen?

[@pavelmiranda5359]

I only managed to find the source of the videos that flat earthers use to propagate the belief that the moon landing was a hoax, which is the movie 'First Man'. Does anyone know of any other sources? There's a scene where the astronaut is descending from the Eagle module, and it appears that the lighting is falling, and it cannot be distinguished from which movie or series it was taken.

[@stamfordly6463]

De Chelonian Mobile

[@tinyderppotato5410]

keith!!!🥰🥰🥰

[@sjs260563]

Now I - even I, would celebrate In Rhymes unapt the great Immortal Syracusan rivalled never more, Who in his wonderous lore Passed on before, Left men his guidance How to circles mensurate.

[@mateuszcielas3362]

how th someone cant believe in gravity?

[@kimbitschlarsen7095]

Wonder how many descendants that Hampden guy has?......

[@farpointgamingdirect]

The world can't be flat because if it were, cats would have knocked everything off the edge by now

[@culwin]

Tune in next week, to the John Hampden Show only on FOX News!

[@NithinJune]

9:22 reminds me of trump 😂

[@randyhavard6084]

I wish Keith hadn't cut Brady off and let him finish reading the poem. I liked it too even if it was pure fiction written by a nasty man.

[@pavelmiranda5359]

I've only managed to find the source of the videos that flat earthers use to propagate the belief that the moon landing was a hoax, which is the movie 'First Man'. Does anyone know of any other sources?

[@leftpastsaturn67]

'A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Moon' by the low rent conman Bart Sibrel is a favourite 'source' for the tin foil hat clowns. If you're going to watch it, wear protective headgear and don't look at the comments.

[@ExpatZ266]

So he makes a wager, gets called on it and loses as he should have known he would so immediately denounces the results and spends the rest of his days trying to avoid paying the bet out at all by slandering the experimenter tthat won the bet, his family/colleagues, the very principles upon which the bet was won and the scientists who articulated them. That's quite a lot of effort to renege on a bet.

[@UncleKennysPlace]

Interestingly, psychologists say that trolls are mentally ill, often with one or more personality disorders. _Sadistic psychopath_ seems to be a popular combo.

[@PeterPete]

I think the people who think the Earth is a globe, the air has constituents and water is made of hydrogen and oxygen are suffering from pychosis 👍They are the ones who are mentally ill because they think something to be true that cannot be proved to be true 👍

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@PeterPete Nobody (apart from your unquestioning drooling 'followers') believes that you believe the earth isn't a globe. Nobody. Grow up.

[@oldoddjobs]

Psychologists say

[@PeterPete]

so you too think something to be true when that very thing cannot be proved to be true? @@oldoddjobs

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@PeterPete Pitiful.

[@vincentpelletier57]

SciManAlfred?

[@faenethlorhalien]

Flat earthers in the 1800s? And I thought that the bane of low IQ scores was a modern thing.

[@oldoddjobs]

Gibberish

[@leftpastsaturn67]

@@oldoddjobs Yes, anything said by a flat earther is gibberish.

[@SolaceEasy]

Hampden - a man of god.

[@NG-VQ37VHR]

Another video taking this concept, but expanding it might be interesting. Instead of using documents for a scientist who was wrong that went against the accepted contemporary ideas, like anit vax. You could instead find documents for scientists that went against contemporary beliefs, but were correct and in line with our current understandings. It would be even more interesting if you could locate documents from respected scientiists or contemporary media that were critizing the person that ended up being correct. Human beings throughout history tend to forget that science follows facts, not concensus. Even people in our own scientific community forget this occasionally. This video was great on its own, btw.

[@Qermaq]

To my recollection Brady's videos generally are demonstrably pro-science, and certainly in this series Keith shares a LOT of the drama behind the science. If you haven't seen a lot of Objectivity videos, you are in for a treat.

[@Sora_Halomon]

it's always "awesome" seeing thought-provoking dives into history like this, with a comment section full of people (who watched the same video) writing the least thought-provoking comments. calling flat-earthers morons is such a low bar to set for yourselves. there are so many other options for improving the world but you people (not objectivity) just pull out the fish barrel and start blasting and getting fish guts all over the ground. if you think people who believe in this stuff are stupid, why don't you do something about it? or do you not actually care about what you're saying you care about beyond posting online about it?

[@camkuhl]

12:02 Wallace does some “independent research”

[@zerksus]

I have actually measured the curvature of earth. It is round.

[@PaulG.x]

Should have stuck to eating billy goats

[@jimdillinger7757]

Tha Analemma proves beyond any doubt that north of the equator and south of the equator are not two equal hemispheres, check out Nikon P900 and P1000 footage over long distances.

[@MrEjwheeler]

The analemma does no such thing, and only forms a figure eight because of the tilt of the spherical earth. "check out Nikon P900 and P1000 footage over long distances." Seen plenty, none of them can bring back the sun into view right after sunset, or the bottoms of ships beyond the horizon.

[@leftpastsaturn67]

Grow up Jim.