'Troubled' Ajax armoured vehicle could still be another 18 months from service

Britain’s new armoured vehicle Ajax might not enter service for another 18 months, after years of delays over technical difficulties.
The Ministry of Defence project to build 589 of the state-of-the-art vehicles has prompted severe criticism having been running for nearly 13 years without yet providing a single deployable vehicle.
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[@pvtmalo3217]

I hope the crew's affected by injuries/damage will be supported short AND long term.

[@DaLizMs]

🤣

[@Tim9999999991]

We all know they wont.

[@jamesamas5527]

just got a pay-out and that was it

[@i.jwilson2885]

Modifications to the seats and headsets doesn't exactly scream, 'We've fixed the problems'

[@1966babysnakes]

Yep... covered it up because they can't fix it.

[@v4skunk739]

@@1966babysnakes The Spanish welded up the hulls out of spec. I'm talking jigs not set up to spec or even used at all. It's industrial sabotage and 100% there were / are people at the Spanish factory that sabotaged the hulls. This isn't from poor quality control. I'd also argue Ajax is a money laundering program because the government refuses to talk about why the Ajax has vibrations in the first place and the lack of investigation on the Spanish manufacturing. If Ajax fails and we don't sue Spain it proves money laundering imo.

[@VanderlyndenJengold]

@@v4skunk739 Sounds unlikely. Any proof? They were moving the assembly to the UK in 2015.

[@Ianmundo]

Major Noise/Vibration and Harshness issues, you think they’ll change engine mounts, add anti-NVH material, softer bushings, modified dampeners, springs, change hydro-pneumatic suspension components, but no. They modify the seats and add more hearing protection… worrying

[@TheBooban]

@@Ianmundo Yeah, sounds like they just tightened some screws. After a few years of use, or even worse, under rugged conditions of a real war, same problems crop up again.

[@darrenjosephgregory]

So for the same money (roughly) we could have 700 odd CV90 up and running by now, no?

[@aquillandscroll6428]

That too with greater interoperability and upgrade options into the future. The cv90 itself has a recce variant with a telescopic mast… something the ajax lacks and yes drones are more prevalent but a mast won’t be jammed as easily. That too we could replace our aging warriors with a normal ifv cv90 as well to save on costs and buying in bulk. Furthermore we’d be supporting BAE a uk company whereas general dynamics uk is just a branch of the American manufacturer that set up a subsidiary with subpar resources and employees just to win a contract that seems like it had no care in the world to look out for the fabrication issues on the hull. Not to say MOD have no fault but BAE would’ve gotten us farther, who knows how many would be operational by now.

[@terrytumble162]

@@aquillandscroll6428good points, and we could then have sent the Warriors to Ukraine. The decision to pick Ajax over CV90 has weakened British security, Ukrainian security, European security. Reckon we’re now pinning our hopes on tracked Boxer and IFV Boxer module. Could work.

[@Jarran91]

The orderbook is long now for the CV 90 in Sweden but I quess that if they had gone with the Cv 90 the production could have been started in Brittain aswell. The are trying to expand the production capacity in the Swedish plant but it will take alot of time. // From a Swede

[@aquillandscroll6428]

@@Jarran91 Yes, I am aware of the order backlog as well, but we started this program in 2010, had we gone with bae we’d be receiving it very shortly. Not to mention the fact that as you’ve mentioned production could be easily expanded to uk as BAE is a uk company so technology and skill transfer wouldn’t be that difficult to set up another production line in the UK. We’d also have a future facility for the warrior replacement as well but leave it to mod procurement and gduk to sell a faulty product, a ‘gimmick’.

[@Jarran91]

@@aquillandscroll6428 Yeah it's a shame but I hope they sort it out. The soldiers deserve a decent vehicle. Europe needs to be strong.

[@zapbrannigan9770]

The Aussies asked the british army what they thought of the vehicle in relation to there own IFV procurement. The british reply was run away. This was clearly a bone thrown to GD after we de selected piranha V in favour of boxer when we really should have selected CV90. This will always be a polished turd.

[@Paranomasia12]

I was a young naïf when I first heard that the British Army was going to adopt the Ajax and Boxer. I thought the Boxer variants were going to partially replace their aging CVR(T) and FV430 counterparts, whilst the Ajax was an infantry fighting vehicle replacing the old Warriors. But then I learnt more about what was going on, especially with Ajax, and it made me a bit sad.

[@scratchy996]

I still don't understand why the UK didn't just get the CV90 ? BAE is a British company, they could have built it in the UK, problem solved. The problem with the Boxer is its own success. They have so many orders, they literally can't build them fast enough, and now there are tensions on who has priority on the Boxer deliveries. A second production line needs to be built. Europeans should finally get their act together and make common platforms. The British should have teamed up with the Germans, Italians, Swedes and Dutch, since they have always built great projects together. The French are difficult to work with, since they want access to tech, but they don't want to share their tech with their partners, yet at the same time they are selling tech to Russia.

[@overcorpse]

@@scratchy996 Boxer manufacturing starts in the UK this year. So that won't be an issue.

[@scratchy996]

@@overcorpse That's good news.

[@MrRambo438]

@@scratchy996 the answer is because of bae

[@scratchy996]

@@MrRambo438 Because of BAE what ?

[@bbbb98765]

More importantly... apart from the program and development problems ... how good is it for it's role over the next 20 years or so?

[@OpenViewsToWorld]

Send them to Ukraine they can use them as decoys !! not worth the money invested as usual !! can't trust Americans to make good weapons for export ! go buy the Cv-90 !! A waste of money again and the solutions are ridiculous .... better helmet ?! General Dynamics should pay the overdraft cost rather than the British public ! procurement in shambles ...not the current MOD fault indeed !

[@Fenrir.Gleipnir]

Just buy cv90

[@matthewwalker5430]

To be fair, it’s unquestionable that the Ajax program has had difficulties but I’d much rather they take their time, properly try to fix the problems and bring it into service ONLY once they have a machine that is truly capable instead of rushing it into operation in order to avoid criticism and avoid taking the financial hit. Ultimately the hope is that, once it is in service, this thing would have been put through years of vigorous testing and so will actually work once it is on the battlefield.

[@whitescar2]

CV90 Mk 4s available from a BAE land systems near you.

[@johnmcclainejriii5829]

When will the MoD learn?... Just buy proven, reliable, decent technology, in quantity, with sufficient munitions. It's not as hard as they make out it is.. most of the procurement team behind this disaster (one would hope) regularly go to the supermarket with an idea of what to make for dinner, buy the correct ingredients within budget, follow the recipe and eat the prepared food at a normal dinner time... They just need to pop on their big boy pants, learn their lessons from what they did at dinner time and take that revolutionary mindset to work with them each day.

[@bencarver8164]

I thought after Afghanistan with the UOR purchases the MoD had learnt that off the shelf stuff is a great way to go. Wouldn't it have been much easier and cheaper to get BAE Hagglunds to design a CV90 variant that would fit our requirements that we could then buy a production license for?

[@thijshagenbeek8853]

Its called off the shelf for a reason mate. It should be good enough when you buy it as is. If it gets people forward safely. And can violently change annyone's mind about trying to touch your troops its doing the job. Its all this customizing that got the Ajax where it is.

[@Bob10009]

@@thijshagenbeek8853 exactly.

[@carlb4741]

So its the SA80 in a vehicle format. No overseas sales due to bad publicity.

[@EnglishScripter]

R.I.P

[@peterfeeney721]

Can it. Take CV90 instead. Commonality and great performance off the shelf. Refuse BOWMAN fit, tell BaE what comms are needed,, the requirements and Hagglunds will make it so

[@peterwait641]

Bowman is supposed to be replace by Morpheus , this project is late , underfunded and difficult to achieve without Microsoft or Apple resources which GD does not have !

[@whya2ndaccount]

Eventually the RAC will receive a platform with at least 13 years between commencement and IOC. They will receive it just in time for its "mid life" update. Great example of Defence procurement for various Staff Colleges around the world.

[@SuperChudley]

I thought the initial procurement started back in approx 90/91 with the concept of TRACER, which was either to be wheeled or tracked, it underwent numerous changes including name changes before AJAX was decided.

[@da90sReAlvloc]

God bless all our brave soldiers,. Your still the best army in the world 👍🇬🇧

[@yamahaevo]

Why in the name of... did not buy CV90?? Whyyy?

[@johnhudson1965]

Oh c'mon, it's nuts .... go for the modern cv90- a proven British/Swedish ifv , truly magnificent, and support British industry with a top ifv!

[@ffenixfubuki]

Watching this shortly after it was actually accepted into service and put into mass production :D

[@ThatCarGuy]

At this rate the UK should have just bought the Bradley or CV90 and modified them to British standards.

[@Nainara32]

Why do the British armed forces need bespoke kit for everything? There are dozens of APC and AFV designs already in production out there to choose from.

[@stevem-h3562]

Because it means more easy money for the Prime contractors who the procurement civil serpents hope to get jobs and kickbacks from. Not to mention that the MOD civil servants from the early 2000's on arent capable of managing their way out of a paper bag.

[@1guitarlover]

Why didn't they purchase the Spanish Pizarro, which is a trusted fighting vehicle? Pizarro was developed in accordance with Austria and later on purchased by General Dynamics. So why this AJAX mess??? 😮😮😮

[@andrewcampbell3321]

Keep up the good work guys ,we will make it work if anybody can ,i really like it think it will be good on the battlefield💪 🇬🇧RULE BRITANNIA 💯❤🙏🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@georgegeorgakopoulos5956]

In Forces News we trust

[@eseetoh]

Was the MOD asking too much from the base design back then? And who it completing against during the competition?

[@xmindk]

What is the difference between Ajax and Ascod2?

[@RalphEllis]

The Spartan was ok. Why not just update it? R

[@evillabrador1]

As long as the tea machine is working.

[@muleyman68]

I bet Britain wishes they picked the Swedish 90/40 system.

[@AS-yc3wp]

How can you have a recce vehicle thats so noisy you need double hearing protection, so the noise issue has not been resolved then? it defeats the purpose of a recce vehicle, they should scrap this thing, and whats with the drivers hatch on a single hinge, as soon as that thing takes a hit, the hatch will blow off. You need something relatively small and quiet, this is not it.

[@tonys1636]

Maybe if the UK was at war things would be different. Nothing like bombs falling on one's head or an invasion force a few miles away to focus the mind. Equipment was developed and perfected in weeks and months not years during the last two World Wars. Admittedly not everything worked as thought but some inventions were brilliant and completely out of the box thinking.

[@bobjackson4720]

In WW2 vehicles were innovated and created in very little time. Why are military systems so inefficient and incompetent now?

[@GJS65]

Ironing out problems isn't the vehicle it's a failure of R & D but at least they're making sure its fit for purpose before it hits the battlefield, which is an improvement on the past.

[@Alsayid]

Why does it vibrate and cause so much noise?

[@blageyanee]

The way Poland is doing now, Combining a redback vehicle with its own turret is the answer.

[@MSkallywagg]

CV 90 now it's not rocket science also what do expect when you get the yanks involved

[@pilgrim....]

Military procurement must be a nightmare job.Geneal Dynamics have been unbelievably slow here. Are they delivering a message. So much blame, everyone can have some.

[@ryanc00p3r3]

As far as i concern, the ASCOD 2 | Sabrah Light Tank variant by Elbit system, The Philipine Army haven't expirience problem on vibration and hearing issue during trials today. Meanwhile the ASCOD 2 | AJAX variant did get that issue already. While the Pizzaro and Ulan variant fielded by Spaniard army and the Austrian army didn't. Why is it then? They all use the same platform but why the British expirience such bad during trials? why they get the worst one? also why they didn't choose the CV-90 instead?

[@peterwait641]

Perhaps Israel have manufacturing quality control instead of ISO box ticking paperwork quality control ?

[@benwilson6145]

Too noisy, better earmuffs, I can see its a well thought out and engineered solution.

[@whyno713]

Maybe contractor could ease of stock buybacks and dividends and use the $ for core business product.

[@rambler241]

Ivan! I can hear a whole battalion of tanks behind that hill!..... No, cancel that - it's one of those Ajax tommy-cookers.

[@RoperGaming]

18 month is nothing compared to the 14 years we've waited already.

[@californiadreamin8423]

Should we be relieved ?

[@70agrr]

Once they are given to the squaddies the real testing begins

[@Lobo204RHF]

Meanwhile the CV90 is making this look stupid.

[@philipturner8557]

Just get the CV90 mk4!

[@ClawsNGloves]

During peace time no mic want's a speedy development.

[@ruuman]

In this day and age these are embarrassing problems. Modern diesels are so refined and with modern CAD these issues just shouldn't happen. Climb into any new heavy plant and you hardly know it's running!

[@jdoe3006]

If they cant handle that extra noise, then I dont think they can handle much worse experiences in the battlefield.

[@peterwait641]

118 db lol

[@andrewpease3688]

Extremely unconvincing If ear muffs and seat cushions actually cured the problem, why wasn't this simple fix done 10 years ago?

[@mattm7007]

The thing looks like the yanks APC in Vietnam, a box on tracks with a "penetrate here" sign.

[@tolitsdterrible4785]

How in the world a project like that got an approval? Don't they have a development and evaluation phase?

[@gordonlowe7157]

As soon as it was found that the sides were of different sizes and welding was sub standard it should have been cancelled and money demanded returned .this is what you get when you don't run trials to see who makes the best kit ( bae systems have one ready to go but we're not considered , smells of backhanders, ) there is a company in England reported that they could stabilise the rarden cannon and upgrade warrior to near ajax standards for a fraction of the cost but the MOD went with a company who have been accused around the world of bribery.

[@KONAMAN100]

When the product was named after the famous Toilet cleaner, the signs were there money was to be flushed away. My own Ajax stands by for "immediate deployment", whenever a challenging task arises.

[@WeeJockMcPlop]

Just cut the losses and buy CV90s

[@Bear_on_pawz]

How can a company the size and with the history of GD make such a hash of this thing?

[@peterwait641]

The Bradley and M113 had problems !

[@Bear_on_pawz]

@@peterwait641 weren't they relatively new platform types at the time? I would have thought that by know making a functioning tracked vehicle would be straightforward, with the issues coming from integration of new technology and electronics. I'm no engineer though.

[@peterwait641]

@@Bear_on_pawz The original ASCOD design by Steyr - Daimler- Puch in 1982 , first prototype in 1992. weight grew from 18.8 to 25.2 and then Ajax grew to 38 ton.

[@MrDregNET]

Scrap it and get CV90

[@californiadreamin8423]

General Dynamics…..is that a US Company ? Don’t we have the design or manufacturing capability in this country ? Did I see a portacabin in the B&Q car park in Newcastle where the Vickers tank factory used to be ? How much taxpayers money greases General Dynamics and I just wonder if there is any link to the Tory party ?

[@BAmalakas]

Strip the extra armour off and the problems will be solved

[@davidphillips8674]

Ben Wallace is awesome

[@tellyboy17]

The Poles order their APC's in South Korea. Those seem to work pretty well...

[@blackdow9581]

It’s almost as if nobody had any project management and procurement skills

[@jeffreyprezalar220]

What I dont get is that the austrians and spanish have not had anywhere near the amount of problems u brits have had with this platform,granted I know they are different but the main chassis is the same,the us version known as the griffin is just as heavy as the brit one and only 6 wheels and from what I've read no where as many problems,don't get it

[@peterwait641]

Perhaps all the experienced staff who made the others retired !

[@Joe90V]

Anybody know why the politician had to wear camouflage, and at one point what looked like a flak jacket?

[@markpengell23]

If this was a horse it would have been shot already. All when CV90 is sitting there performing like a dream.

[@Tomo-hb2tq]

It’s just a updated warrior that’s all it is cos it looks like it

[@bangdoll4500]

No quality control, which is the basic of the machinery industry. Vibration and noise due to poor suspension compared to excessive demand weight. Design faults, production and assembly defects. A basic flaw that cannot even be thought of in Western developed countries.

[@peterwait641]

ISO 9001 is a paperwork exercise , companies who pay for this tend to steer the inspectors to areas they want them to check and give them nice lunches , They never talk to workshop staff about quality or ask any questions !

[@hartsymk1]

Should never have bothered with this lemon, should have gone with the try'd and tested cv90 system

[@jp92382]

lol the only thing successful about this procurement is the obscene amount of money it has made General Dynamics. wait, what did you say? that was the only goal of this procurement from the beginning? oh ok, gotcha.

[@andrewcampbell3321]

Guys just poly bush everything, problem solved ,shouldn't be a problem for the British Army ,i personally think we should be putting adleast 10%gdp into the military and also a big recruitment drive loads of good jobs for British boys and girls ,they are the reason we all sleep safe and sound at night !!!

[@danwoodward7738]

I'd say it's a joke, but it's not funny.

[@untrust2033]

Buy m2a3 cmon

[@reidakted4416]

"WHERE'S FRANCIS?!?!"

[@NoOne-hq9cp]

I'd rather drive a tescos shopping trolly mounted with 303

[@franklongwill9178]

Should give up and just by something foreign that actually works properly

[@EppingBlogger]

If they delivered a vehicle (modified from one that already had been in service elsewhere) with such vibration and noise that it could not be used, then it is a dog and no amount of fiddling will ever put it right

[@allenseeallendo5844]

Imagine green lighting a project before even seriously testing it. You have a vehicle shaking the people inside so bad it cause physical damage to the people and so loud it causes hearing damage. I guess my British ancestors aren’t know for their vehicle manufacturing skills. BAE on the other hand, that’s just embarrassing.

[@DeanPattrick]

MoD procurement team should all be fired.!

[@xotvi]

GD needs to be severely fined and Ajax cancelled.

[@jordizee]

British military equipment not very good? That is totally unusual 😂😂

[@Whiteplane]

I DONT TRUST THIS GUY AT ALL LOOK AT THE STATE OF HIM!

[@timothyortiz2222]

Ajax, should be scrapped.

[@chrisbrown4002]

Total disaster, "new progress" is just rubbish, increased noise & vibration protection for the crew ....DOES NOT SOLVE THE MECHANICAL FAILURES THAT CAUSE THE PROBLEMS IN THE FIRST PLACE. So will will supply noise protection to the enemy so they can't hear it coming ?

[@needmorecowbell6895]

Can't we have joint European vehicles and aircraft? How about Korean or American kit? I'm not sure why every nation needs it's own weapon systems to spit out NATO standard ammunition.

[@norb0254]

Waste of money ,i would ship them out to the ukraine

[@clockmonkey]

Thirteen years, Billions of pounds and it still won't enter service before the next election.

[@FucklesTheDog]

His ukraine/union jack flag is on upside down.

[@Swift-mr5zi]

Joke

[@Whisky_Four-Three]

Shambollick

[@KONAMAN100]

Ajax is literally fit for the toilet

[@andrewhayes7055]

Typical UK balls up.

[@strikezero01]

even at the game (AW) its not even available, same as PUMA. General Dynamic... Rheinmetall... what happen? ooh this company will end up demoted into Major Dynamic if this issues continue ):

[@swunt10]

A relatively useless and toothless rolling box that has all sorts of unfixable engineering problems. Why even bother? Why not instead buy off the shelf a real IFV with some guns, missiles and crew carrying capacity that also actually works without putting the crew into hospital from noise and vibrations problems.

[@heybabycometobutthead]

How does changing the seats and giving better ear plugs solve the problem? are there any actual engineers in the procurement team that can understand this nonsense is General Dynamics trying to slime their way out of multi Billion pound reimbursement payments, unbelievable.

[@peterwait641]

Wonder how long before vibration makes the hydraulic mounts leak ?

[@bio7377]

Why dont we just build and develop them in the uk, build the infastructure capable for us to build and maintain our own ifv's mbt's ect and ammunition and sack off paying general trash for there appalling workmanship and inability to correct faults they themselves caused...

[@inch6074]

Tell you how to compress the trials time down , send some to Ukraine for real world war usage b,I'm sure the Ukrainians will oblige and give back real world date good/ bad and niggles to be ironed out ,18 months down to 6 months hard use when the new offensive kicks off

[@MrWorldwide00]

waste of money. it would have been more effective to acquire an off the shelf purchase

[@paulfarr7]

Absolute shambles 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@medic7698]

I sincerely hope General Dynamics are made to pay compensation to those soldiers with hearing damage and long term effects caused by vibration. It's the only way to keep these people honest.

[@JammyDodger45]

GD aren't to blame. The MoD added literally dozens of 'enhancements' to the requirements so the vehicle weight and centre of gravity rocketed without any changes you the suspension and drives to compensate and it's that which produced the issues. The MoD is, as ever, not up to a procurement task.

[@medic7698]

@@JammyDodger45 who fitted the enhancements?

[@tankie2ndrtr]

@@JammyDodger45 requirements are the prime's responsibility to integrate. A fundamental issue with track alignment and poor track tensioning is an engineering issue, not an MOD one. GDUK are absolutely to blame.

[@JammyDodger45]

@@tankie2ndrtr - if a requirement is not in the original scope and that requirement ups the weight of the vehicle by circa 25% then the suspension design will not cope with it. That's down to the MoD changing things not GD. This isn't an issue of track tensioning, we're not talking about running a Chally 1 over Soltau and getting a bit of track slap. When the C1 became the C2 did they stick with the same drives and track or was it redesigned to cope with the different mass and dynamics? Should that cost have been born by Royal Ordnance Factory as they built the C1?

[@korma9732]

​@@JammyDodger45 rubbish, you wouldn't buy a new car with a few factory extras only for the dealer to turn round and state the warranty is void when you've got a problem

[@Swatmat]

CV90 says hi