Troy | Canadian First Time Watching | Movie Reaction | Movie Review | Movie Commentary

[@CineBingeReact]

Whos your favorite Greek God or mythical hero?

[@alexandersparf]

Cat Stevens.

[@JeffKelly03]

When I was a kid it was always Theseus. I just loved the labyrinth and the Minotaur (which is one of my favorite parts in AC Odyssey, not surprisingly).

[@joshgrobansdrymouth]

Bobby Moynihan

[@JeffKelly03]

Well now I'm kicking myself for not just saying Jason Mantzoukas.

[@Quallenkrauler]

As a kid: Heracles. He was just the Proto-Superman before I knew of Superman's existence. As an adult: Ödipus. He's got brains instead of brawns, it's a true tragedy (you know, even beside the mum stuff) and in the end, it's yet again the gods doing their greek gods thing, randomly cursing and gambling with mortal destinies. Everything an ancient greek legend needs.

[@keithmusselman6003]

Homer having a writing credit thousands of years after his death is the definition of Legacy. Haha

[@huyxiun2085]

It just was a way to make the buzz.

[@mr.k1611]

Too bad he will never know.

[@jac7895]

But Homer was famously illiterate and blind

[@tamberlame27]

Doh!

[@iamaronman]

He got credit in "o brother where art thou" too

[@GorgeousRandyFlamethrower-]

I saw this in the theater and I heard one of the funniest things in my life from the audience. When the Greeks were coming out of the horse, a woman sitting behind me whispered to her friend: "I knew it"

[@politicalmoderate190]

Sean Bean plays one of the few guys who, ironically, survive everything in the Trojan War and the fallout.

[@marcusfridh8489]

He does that in national treasure too

[@drafezard7315]

@@marcusfridh8489 That's incredibly low stakes compared to what happens in the Illiad and Oddesy.

[@politicalmoderate190]

@@drafezard7315 not to people stealing... stuff... :P

[@dansiegel995]

A rare role where Sean Bean does not die!!! Yeah!!!!

[@shykorustotora]

Glitch in the Hollywood Matrix

[@lsaria5998]

One of the reasons the physicality is so good is that Petersen (after having secured agreement from both Bana and Pitt to film the sequences themselves) spent time in the spin up to shooting calling them both and telling them how amazed he was at how ripped the other was getting in training. Since they knew no stuntmen would be used they were really competitive in getting prepared for the fights, and even agreed on a side bet to pay each other for every accidental missed mark or hit in their duel. Another thing to note about the fight scenes in this movie is that Petersen uses a favorite technique of Akira Kurosawa where separate shots from different angles are actually slightly overlapped in the timeline. This gives your brain a small window to adjust to the new angle and makes the scene much more fluid to watch in real time. It's something lost to the current generation of action films that have wildly chaotic shot sequences that leave the viewer reeling and slightly unsure of what just happened. Troy probably isn't going to be remembered as a classic for myriad reasons, but it is a beautifully constructed piece of cinema. Plus it has the sublime irony that Brad Pitt ruptured his Achilles tendon during filming...

[@drafezard7315]

That's not irony, that's happenstance.

[@kaffeeburger]

@@drafezard7315 That is like a textbook example of situational irony.

[@beesmitty3435]

Idk troy will be remembered if no other reason it's one of the best of it's genre. Most of the movies that depict ancient(b.c.) times/events are underwhelming. Troy has great performances and one of the best on screen face offs.

[@jd190d]

@@beesmitty3435 I always liked the idea that what if you took the god's influence out (basically actual life) you get an idea of why and how this war actually happened. When you actually read the Illiad the war is already going when it starts and the book ends when Achilles lets Priam take Hector's body back. It show that the war and fame is not what Achilles needs, killing his enemies and sacrificing to the gods does not give him rest, it's the forgiving of his enemy and honoring his opponents that brings him peace. When Achilles lets Priam take his son's body back to honor him, that is when Achilles finds peace and the Illiad ends when Priam has the 12 days for the funeral rituals and buries Hector.

[@drafezard7315]

@@kaffeeburger No it's not. Irony is supposed to involve the opposite of an expected outcome. If Brad Pit injured everything but his Achillies heel that would be ironic.

[@DanielOrion74]

It’s only briefly shown in this reaction, but Peter O’Toole’s scene with Pitt is an absolute masterclass in acting. O’Toole brings heft and emotion to that scene no one else possibly could. What an absolute legend.

[@marthapackard8649]

Agreed. I'm surprised that they didn't include the " you are still my enemy tonight" line. It gave me a chill.

[@Daveyboy100880]

He apparently agreed to do the film on the proviso that not one word of that scene be changed.

[@granadosvm]

Let them say we filmed in the time of legends. Let them say we filmed in the time of Peter O'Toole!

[@fallenhero3130]

I was about to say this. Every single review of this movie, whether positive or negative, always mentions the Peter O'Toole scene and how it's the best scene in the whole movie. It honestly could be a short film that they show in acting classes.

[@canonfodder2068]

I loved him in so many movies and younger generations don't really talk about his movies anymore.

[@choomah]

I like how in this version, Achilles isn't immortal, nor does he believe that he is. He's just a very, VERY skilled warrior. When Paris shoots an arrow through a distracted Achilles' heel, and then lands more shots on his body, Achilles pulls the arrows from his body. It gives the impression to those that found his body, that the arrow in the heel killed him. And with the theme of the movie literally being legend/legacy and stories passing through time, it works perfectly at showing how myth & legend can come about.

[@abc123tiktok]

I personally just like mythology stories being told in a more realistic way taking out fantasy. Its why I was a big fan of 13th warrior.

[@couch.patati-patata]

Achilles was a heel.

[@karlmortoniv2951]

There's some seriously cool god stuff that we haven't had the treat of seeing filmed though. There are a few things in the Iliad that don't necessarily fall easily into the category of brain activity or psychology or however one wants to describe it. Ares taking an active role in the battles would have been an amazing thing to see, and having other gods tilt the playing field in various ways might have been kinda neat. I wouldn't hate it if someone did this story as though the gods were like super strong aliens messing with the humans for fun, or for ego, or whatever the case may be. The challenge would be to not rob the humans of any dramatic depth while making them subject to the whims and caprices of the gods. Maybe. Fun to think about, anyway,

[@abc123tiktok]

@@karlmortoniv2951 Love the stories and have no issue with fantasy but I do think its very hard to do good cgi and special effects on such a grand scale. I think Super hero movies have done best job overall but even then it becomes more painfully obvious your watching a movie the more obvious the effects. I know they have made movies with greek mythology and personally I don't think their strong point was the special effects. Not against movies being made I just think its another hurdle that movie making has to overcome.

[@jamieosu]

@@karlmortoniv2951 You should check out the Ilium series by Dan Simmons. It's very similar to what you're describing here. You might like it.

[@worldsgreatestspy5836]

I read the Illiad in orgiginal ancient Greek and modern Greek. I grew up in Greece and it was part of 8th grade curriculum. Not a single time is it implied that Achilles and Patroclus were lovers. They are mostly portrayed as friends, it can be seculated that they were cousins. The misunderstanding comes from the misinterpretation of the words erastes (εραστης) and eromenos (ερωμενος). Unlike in modern Greek, back in the time of ancient Greece it was purely a tutor-pupil relationship (which Achilles and Patroclus shared) that didn't insinuate anything sexual

[@ruggerobelloni4743]

Finally Someone truly knowledgeable. I studied Homer as great literature in junior high in Italy and older Friends studied It a second time in Greek. This story Is told in the Odissey as a flashback making Homer a better film maker then these guys. You know Better than I that Achilles was dead before the final Attack and Agamemnon was murdered After his return. Hollywood even messed up the Gospel more than once! The european 60's production of the Odissey starring the great Irene Papas as Penelope Is The One.

[@xeno-andrew]

It’s “unfalsifiable” like a fanfic of things that aren’t covered. (Completely agree there is nothing in the original that even implies a romantic relationship) There are writings after that cover it both ways. Queer studies now covers it and push it as the narrative.

[@jculver1674]

The very large warrior that Hector fights is named Ajax, which is probably most familiar as the name of a cleaning product these days. In the old commercials for Ajax cleaner, its tagline was "stronger than grease!" which was a pun referring to the Iliad, in which the warrior Ajax was said to be "stronger than all of Greece".

[@hanskneesun123]

Also the name the antagonist takes in Deadpool, to cover for the fact his real name is Francis, I'm sure Ryan Reynolds and writers are aware of the origins but Deadpool pokes fun at Francis for choosing the name of a cleaning detergent as his cover.

[@applegeepedigree]

There were also two Ajaxs in the Illiad. Ajax the Great and Ajax the Lesser. Ajax the Great being the strongest, the Lesser being the swiftest.

[@unicyclist97]

​@@hanskneesun123 the Ajax name comes from the comics, before Ryan Reynolds was involved.

[@marcusfridh8489]

My grandparents had a dachshund(wienerdog) named Ajax

[@JBjopa8]

And the actor is really so big he is 6'11(211cm)

[@ATinyWaffle]

The condoms are named after the horse, not the city. Because it contains all your soldiers but still allows you to enter through the "walls"😆

[@SlytheyTove]

well, yeah, but then once inside, the soldiers emerge from the horse allowing them to go on a troy/life ruining rampage... again, that's pretty much the opposite result you'd want when using a condom, isn't it?

[@ATinyWaffle]

@@SlytheyTove You gotta know when to pull out after the soldiers arrive. Otherwise your horse may tear, allowing them to spill out. If the soldiers stay in the horse within the city too long, they get antsy and will try to break out.

[@SlytheyTove]

@@ATinyWaffle But that's not what happened in Troy! They didn't bring the horse in for a party, parade it around for a bit, and then put it back on the beach for all the soldiers inside to spill out on, the soldiers got out of the horse inside the kingdom, and opened the gates further for a full scale invasion! George is right, that brand of condoms picked the wrong horse to name their company after.

[@marktracy1721]

Ha haha that's funny 😅😂😊

[@SyntheticCK]

@@SlytheyTove No it gives you the opportunity to enter safely and go on a rampage with no averse affects.

[@calvin7485]

U guys need to watch Kingdom Of Heaven (directors cut) with Ed Norton and Orlando Bloom its such a great movie with excellent visuals.

[@strongereveryday8]

THIS!

[@huehue3687]

I concur. With emphasis on the Directors Cut! The theatrical release has some really odd scenes, plot holes and strange pacing that are thankfully fixed by the directors cut. There really is a huge difference in experience between the two cuts.

[@mikef2811]

Agreed. The Directors cut is great. With that said, rumor was that Mel Gibson wanted to do a 4-hour cut/Director's cut of "Braveheart" but sadly the studio declined to fund the project. I for one would have loved to see a four hour Braveheart movie.

[@AleksPizana]

I don't know. I recently re-watched it and felt terrible for not being able to find the theatrical cut anywhere to download (same with Terminator 2). It drags so much the more I watch it. I've always loved Saladin's portrayal on it but after finding out how the historical Balian of Ibelin really was... ugh it ruins the whole movie for me. I prefer the Theatrical cut cause "it gets to the food part" (XD).

[@Paperr12]

Funny seeing this now because they might actually watch this one soon (it was on one of their recent polls)

[@nunyabisniz8047]

There is no evidence beyond speculation of a few scholars (which includes Plato btw) that Achilles and Patroclus were lovers. What is known is that they were close friends, Plato thought that meant they were lovers but his other contemporaries like Xenophon which was a fellow student of Socrates, disagreed with him. Also worthy of note was that Plato thought they had a pederasty relationship where one of them is a young boy lover and the other an older man mentor.

[@yvonnesanders4308]

It was common for older men to 'adopt' a younger man/boy

[@jardam9466]

@@yvonnesanders4308 In the Iliad, Achilles was younger then Patroclus, but the difference was probably small. There in nothing in Iliad, that say's that they were lovers. In Iliad, he is treated more like a representation of the compassionate side of Achilles and when he dies, Achilles goes berserk on Hector. Iliad starts when Achilles refuses to fight in war and ends with Hectors funeral. It is set in 9th year of the war. There is no beginning with Paris and Helena and no end with Trojan horse. The whole myth as we know it today is from later versions of this story. According the myth they both grew up together and became friends. Patroclus killed his friend over a game of dice when he was a child. He was exiled and raised by Achilles's father. Some versions of the story of course say that they were lovers. Some sources also say that Patroclus was Achilles's first cousin once removed. You can choose your version but in Iliad, Achilles, Hector and Patroclus have they purpose and their relationship isn't really that important for the story. For example Hector knows, if he kills Patroclus, then he will die and if he dies, then Troy will fall. And Achilles knows that if he kills Hector, then he will die. Yeah, there is lot of prophecies in Iliad.

[@NestorCaster]

@21:10: the bushy red and blonde beard, older bear-like-height stature man that Simone asked about is the actor who played Jeor Mormont, in Game of Thrones-- as well as many credits for the last 30-40 years, including a role along side Mel Gibson, in Braveheart…. It’s Scottish film actor James Cosmo…

[@ciphernine7824]

James Cosmo also played "Angus," leader of the clan Macleod in "Highlander" (1986).

[@gordonoakley3893]

he also played Rentons dad in Train Spotting

[@dracoargentum9783]

I love how Hammish[Brandon Gleeson] is on one side, while his father[James Cosmo] was on the other...

[@NestorCaster]

Ya ppl are cool^^^^

[@zvimur]

..... and.... Father Christmas in The Lion, the Witch andvthe Wardrobe😂.

[@redjakOfficial]

The Odyssey with Sean Bean as the lead could've made an awesome movie, indeed.

[@Fordo007]

Aneas, the guy Paris talks to at the tunnel who he says to go find a new home... he goes to Italy and begins the Romans.

[@jleos0095]

😮 damn that’s a fun fact!

[@michaelterry3885]

Allegedly!, you're ignorant, that's ignorant, Allegedly..! -- In my best "Mr. Jefferson" voice from South Park--

[@nathanluz1218]

romans were germanic and french i think

[@suflanker45]

That is from Virgil's The Aeneid.

[@brankobogado6851]

why is your comment from 9 days ago??? wtf

[@HaganeNoGijutsushi]

Cassandra's curse wasn't that her prophecies wouldn't be heard, it was that they wouldn't be believed. Everyone being like "Oh sure, she was right the last 15 times she predicted misfortune, but this one? That's just ridiculous. Good old Cassandra, always a bummer! She should lighten up!"

[@shainewhite2781]

RIP James Horner for composing an epic score. RIP, Wolfgang Petersen for making this movie possible.

[@Thrui]

And Homer for writing a good series of stories

[@marcusfridh8489]

​@@Thrui including the sequal the Odyssey

[@terrylandess6072]

I was surprised but pleased when the extended version had a 'different' score in places.

[@fullmoonprepping4024]

@@Thrui Though Homer didn't write anything . . . . he was a blind poet and orater whos stories were transcribed.

[@BubblyRainbows]

I've seen a lot of people bash this movie for not being faithful to the source material, but actually, departing from the source material is why I liked it. In the original stories, the gods did everything. None of the humans contributed in any way to the story. Even Achilles being hit in his one weak spot was because a god guided the arrow. All of the major decisions were because of curses, spells, divine manipulation and the like. The fact that they stripped out all of the divine intervention and supernatural nonsense and tried to give a more grounded in reality version of the events was their best decision in my opinion. And yet they still left in nods to the original source material. My favorite part being that Achilles plucks all the arrows that killed him out of his body except for the one through his heel, so when the soldiers find him, he's only got that one arrow in him that superstitious solders might use to claim the legend as truth.

[@notenoughspaceto]

in the Iliad, Achilles and Patroclus are very close friends NOT lovers and they are related, that story was from a play written hundreds of years later. Achilles does fall in love with Briseis

[@lsaria5998]

The beginning of the story was the wedding of Peleus and Thetis; Achilles' parents. They neglected to invite Eris, the goddess of discord, because she was a known troublemaker. In her spurned anger she created a golden apple engraved with the words "to the most beautiful" and tossed it into the wedding party. Three goddesses (Hera, Athena and Aphrodite) claimed it as their own. Unable to decide between themselves they approached Zeus, who gave it to Paris to award as he saw fit. Hera offered power, Athena wisdom, Aphrodite love. It's a story that fully represents the words in Shakespeare's King Lear: as flies to wanton boys are we to the gods; they kill us for their sport...

[@flatebo1]

The beginning of the story was Zeus' lust for Thetis. But Zeus then heard a prophecy that Thetis' child would be greater than his father. And as Zeus had overthrown and killed his father Kronos (who had overthrown and killed his own father Ouranos) , Zeus was understandably reluctant to risk the same fate. Which is why Zeus arraigned for Thetis to marry a mortal king.

[@fullmoonprepping4024]

"Kallisti" was the word inscribed . . . . Hail Eris! All hail Discordia!

[@fullmoonprepping4024]

@Odysseus Monte Cristo That was a great portrayal . . . . of course Jason and the Argonauts with Ray Harryhausen in charge of effects is unparalled!

[@The_Bermuda_Nonagon]

“The whole earth is the tomb of heroic men and their story is not given only on stone over their clay but abides everywhere without visible symbol woven into the stuff of other men's lives.” ― Pericles

[@eduardolpz386]

There is no mention in the Iliad - or any of Home's work - that Patroclus and Achilles were lovers. Patroclus was older than Achilles but they grew up together and were childhood friends. It was only much later that writers speculated that Achilles was Patroclus's eromenos. But in The Iliad and The Odyssey they are childhood friends, like brothers or cousins.

[@woeshaling6421]

the speculation stems from context. greek society did not condemn homosexual relationships. it is easy to put modern religious values on ancient societies. but historians agree that greeks had many established social constructs around homosexual relations

[@brittoncain5090]

@@woeshaling6421 It was more accepted, but not anything like it is today. It was more or less 'ok' for the man who was the 'active' one, but the man who was 'receiving' was seen as basically emasculated and not a real man.

[@HAbarneyWK]

​@@woeshaling6421 that still doesnt imply that they were lovers

[@stuka80]

@@woeshaling6421 just because Greek society was open to homosexual relations doesnt mean every male friendships were likely also sexually intimate, no more than it is today. It was stated that they were friends, and thats it.

[@helvete_ingres4717]

@@woeshaling6421 'greek society did not condemn homosexual relationships' - it kind of didn't, but also it REALLY kind of did at the same time

[@andrewrawlings5220]

In the stories (that came before the Trojan War) Helen was so beautiful that all the kings of Greece were ready to go to war over who would marry her. Odysseus (who was actually one of the suitors, at that time) came up with a plan. Helen would choose and all the kings would swear an oath to defend her marriage to their last breath. She chose Menelaus. THIS is the real reason all of Greece sailed to get her back from Troy (rather than Agamemnon being powerful enough to order them all around).

[@kiarya7939]

You guys need to know that your thumbnails bring great joy and I love them lol🎉 Fantastic reaction as always!

[@CineBingeReact]

thanks Kiarya!! ☺️

[@kiarya7939]

@@CineBingeReact OMG DAY MADE!!! 🎉🎉

[@jayj4408]

Said it once and i will say it again Paris is low key the villain of this story tbh what he did is crazy af and the fact that he got to live makes me mad af lol.

[@thatonkgau5221]

The guy started a whole ass war because he couldn't keep it in his pants.

[@fgaitanm]

At least he does get killed in the Iliad by his rival archer Philoctetes!

[@weebleman6]

Helen chose to go as well

[@Tommieboy2009]

On the other hand...agamemnon did betray his wife on several occasions and she was trapped in an unhappy and unwanted marriage.

[@martinsandt1135]

Signed 👍👊

[@McPh1741]

I like how portrayed Achilles in a way that he wasn’t some invulnerable being but rather someone who was just very skilled. The myth of Achilles could be attributed to such a person but became so over exaggerated overtime. Also, I believe his death can be considered the first documented case of a poison arrow killing someone. I see the whole story of Achilles as there once was a warrior that was very skilled and won many battles. His fame grew and with that his exploits or rumors of his exploits. Eventually one day he’s wounded in battle, hit with an arrow in his ankle. Unknown to him or anyone else, the arrow was poisoned and it eventually killed him. Over time people ask “Well if he was great how can arrow to his ankle kill him?” The answer, “Well that’s where his mom was holding him when she dipped him in the River Styx so it’s to only part that wasn’t protected.” It’s like all the Chuck Norris jokes going around.

[@Mauther]

I actually like how they address it in this movie. If you notice when the Greeks find his body, the arrows in his torso have been removed and are laying next to him. Only the arrow in his ankle remains. So to a passing observer, it looks like the World's Greatest Warrior (tm) was killed by a single arrow to his heel. So the legend starts.

[@ShawnRavenfire]

I heard somewhere (can't remember where) that Greek armor didn't cover the backs of the heels, to make the soldiers more maneuverable or something, and this might have inspired the myth of Achilles being indestructible except for his heels.

[@ScarlettM]

6:48 - Hector is partially to blame. He should've tied up Paris and drop of Helen on the shore - let her come up with a story of a sudden need to pick seashells, alone. He should NOT have allowed Paris to take Helen to Troy.

[@BoredLittleLady]

I cried for the first time in a theater when Hector died. I was 12. It always gets me.

[@Soundtracks92]

Omg same here. And I was 12 as well

[@cyndigirl418]

Paris is to blame. He killed his brother!

[@FzNd]

Despite the deviations from the source material, I've always enjoyed this film. The duel between Achilles and Hector is my favourite movie sword fight to this day.

[@marthapackard8649]

That fight scene is fantastic. I get the annoyance about the deviations from the Iliad but the movie is called Troy, not The Iliad.

[@nathancollins1715]

Someone's probably already said this, but King Priam is Peter O'Toole, aka Lawrence of Arabia! He has a voice to rival James Earl Jones', so damn deep and soothing. And you can still see Lawrence twinkling behind those crystal blue eyes.

[@sthenx0r]

I really like how they handle the gods in the movie, giving normal events the seed of a story that would turn into legend over time with retelling. Like Achilles' death, he gets shot in the heel then three times in the chest, but he breaks those arrows so soldiers just saw his dead body with an arrow through the heel. You can imagine how in retelling it would spawn a myth that he was invulnerable except for his heel - it's actually very well-reasoned.

[@HonestOpinions4u]

He removes them don't he?

[@helvete_ingres4717]

you're touching on a concept called euhemerism

[@fgaitanm]

This is an extended version, for sure, it includes many small scenes I hadn't seen in the past!

[@manny75586]

The "Achilles and Patroclus were lovers" thing does not appear in the book by Homer, there he is just a close childhood friend. The lovers narratives are all inventions of later writers who re-adapted it. So the film is more true to the original source material than it is the latter day reimaginations.

[@DavidEllis94]

I was about to say this. Patroclus was Achilles's cousin, iirc, but the Iliad makes no implication of a romantic element. That was a later thing.

[@jmoore5716]

15:13 noon comes from the latin "nonus" for "ninth" meaning the ninth hour of the liturgical day. The first hour was at 6am so the ninth hour was at 3pm. It was customary to fast during Lent until the prayers held at the ninth hour but the prayers were held progressively earlier in the day to enable labourers to eat sooner hence "nonus" was associated with midday.

[@Zseventyone]

41:37 - George, that’s Peter O’Toole, man. One of the best actors of his generation. Look him up.

[@grumpynovelist]

I think it's a shame that they didn't make an Odysseus with Sean Bean.

[@TheGavrael]

Odysseus being crazy and salting his fields is not in The Iliad, neither is Achilles and Patroclus being lovers. Other writers have added a lot of that stuff, but since this is Homer's epic, those things aren't included.

[@Freyjafairholm8080]

My favorite part in the Iliad is that in the original Greek, when petroclis died, the word they used to describe Achilles' anger is a word that they only ever use for the rage of the gods

[@CChissel]

I always think of Stesichoros in regards to Helen of Troy. He composed verses that insulted her and she blinded him, then he composed ones that flattered her and she cured him. He’s probably my favorite Greek poet. “He came after Homer and before Gertrude Stein, a difficult interval for a poet.” I love that quote about him lol

[@thanasisv190]

Patroclus was never the lover of Achilles. That is not part of Homer's writings. He was his best friend.

[@WhackyRavenLand]

Fun fact: King Triopas at the very beginning (Remove your army from my land) is none other than Grand Maester Pycelle from Game of Thrones, aka the legendary Julian Glover, who also told Lord Vader he could begin his landing on Hoth =) Edit: The great bushy beard saying they can win because their walls have never been breached and that they have Hector is Lord Commander Mormont in Game of Thrones, the old bear and father to Ser Jorah Mormont =)

[@bookjunk]

I know the film tries to cast a bunch of things in a romantic light (and other things not so much) but Briseis might as well have been a fancy goblet, as far as Achilles is concerned. He isn't mad cause he cares about her; he's mad because Agamemnon took something of his, a part of his spoils of war.

[@greggibson33]

Agreed..... Achilles as shown in this mediocre film, is basically a selfish a-hole who doesn't give a sh*t about anyone or anything. Also, the only reason he's a good warrior is because he CAN'T DIE. So what? Anybody could be great if they were dipped in the River Styx. Give Hector the same advantage then it would be a fair fight. This is why there was literally no drama in ANY of the fight scenes.... even though the ending was obvious (because everyone knows the story), I was rooting for the Trojans and was glad when Achilles finally got hit by the fluke arrow.... Turns out, without the magic, he ain't so tough after all.

[@greggibson33]

@@callnight1441 Let me restate: I was more anti-Achilles. Not so much pro Trojans.

[@Johnny_Socko]

@@greggibson33 You do realize that there is a source material? All of your criticisms should be directed at Homer rather than the film. Even then it's clearly stated in both that Achilles is a supremely skilled warrior; he just happens to *also* be magical (stated in the book, implied in the film).

[@abc123tiktok]

I always thought that was the joke having Brad Pitt being Achilles. He looked nothing like the description in story but personality wise as celebrity at time he was perfect.

[@greggibson33]

@@Johnny_Socko I get Homer's illogical assertion that Achilles is a skilled warrior even though he can't be killed (That's why it's a myth and not real history). But the film amps up the reality and doesn't mention the myth. In the film, it makes all the showdowns with other rivals a complete waste of time (we know he can't lose) and I don't recall the film even mentioning why he's invincible.

[@TomorrowWeLive]

8:50 No, in the Iliad they're cousins, not lovers. Certain people in later times, both in Ancient Greece and today, interpreted them as lovers as well as cousins ;)

[@danilopapais1464]

So glad Simone remembered the story of the great hero Testicles.

[@adasga]

When it comes to Achilles and Patroclus being lovers and that being "oh they didn't want to make the hero gay for the film", I don't actually think Homer had them as lovers in his writing and it was later on with the likes of Plato who made that interpretation. So in actuality, the biggest change in their relationship might have been that Achilles was the younger of the two in Iliad.

[@ideologybot4592]

It's weird seeing people watch this and not even trying to think in terms of historical context, particularly in the case of Paris and Helen. George seems to want Paris to be a conventional modern villain, all mean and dangerous, when him being likable but deeply immature makes perfect sense for the story in the time period. And yeah, women were close to property and that's inseparable from the entire plot. It's better for not having good guys and bad guys, even if it doesn't pull you in with obvious good and evil takes. Then there's Simone, wanting Helen to have a talk with Menelaus about how "I don't love you anymore," or faking their deaths or whatever. That's... just adorable. Really, I think this film did a pretty good job of keeping the context of the time period intact while removing the gods and mysticism to make it more of a realistic, but dramatized, history.

[@jacklegend5798]

I love that line: "I want what all men want; I just want it more."

[@jaredragland4707]

His hamartia was what Menelaus, and Agamemnon, and later Odysseus and even Hector kept playing him with: that ego was his real soft spot.

[@BenedictWolfe]

Achilles and Patroclus are not explicitly lovers in Homer's text, though one may infer a relationship based on their tenderness. Also, Patroclus is supposed to be the older, more mature of the two.

[@scythianking7315]

They are not lovers in any way. It's just modern, Liberal gay propaganda. And it's getting really old. These people just cannot stop rewriting history to push their own ideology. There is not A SINGLE romantic moment between Patriclus and Achilles in the entire story, there are however, many romantic moments that they have with WOMEN. MANY ancient stories depict close Male FRIENDSHIPS. It shows a lot about our modern society that two Men having a true friendship and caring about each other gets sexualized and they get made out to be "gay". Honestly its sexist against Men to believe this, AND it's insulting to actual gay people. These are the same people that call Frodo and Sam from LOTR gay...... it's disgusting

[@clevelandcbi]

AFTER DISCUSSING SEX SCENE: George: "Keep both hands above the table." Simone: *Raises ONE hand* 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@ozzyhaye]

Paris is actually a tragic villain because his intentions and the outcome of his actions are so averse to each other...and there in lies his tragedy

[@victore6242]

The Cassandra metaphor is applied by some psychologists to individuals who experience physical and emotional suffering as a result of distressing personal perceptions, and who are disbelieved when they attempt to share the cause of their suffering with others.

[@dracoargentum9783]

And this is a perfect segue into them watching 12 monkeys.

[@vilefly]

The Cassandra complex. You beat me to it.

[@kingleech16]

In the army we used it as a reference to sending warnings and such up the chain only for it to be ignored.

[@pieceofgosa]

"the giant soldier is probably five (foot) seven" Said soldier was played by former WWE wrestler Nathan Jones & he is 6ft 11inches tall :D

[@WyvernXP]

The funniest thing ever commented about is when George said "delete my browser history". 😅 That shit had me cracking up for a good 10 minutes!

[@jonathanshaw1436]

Y'all should watch the 1997 two part mini series "The Odyssey" With Armand Asante playing Odysseus. Surprisingly well done for its time.

[@ruggerobelloni4743]

They left out the dog Argo dying after recognizing his master After 20 years and that Is unforgivable. The european version with Irene Papas as Penelope Is the only One. The american production ranks below most Xena episodes. The problem Is I studied Homer as great literature at the very core of western culture and my american Friends skimmed the surface under "Mithology".

[@FoxTrot2000]

El cabron de lentes no se calla la boca, ya sabemos que sabes el mito, no es necesario que repitas detalles absurdos

[@Ichthyodactyl]

To be fair, prior to being breached, the Trojan wall was famous for being impregnable. Maybe it's a subtle comment on condoms having an expiration date? xD

[@prabhatsourya3883]

46:10 I think that piece wasn’t from the primary source of Iliad, but came from its follow on text, Aeneid. It is doubtful that it was a canon event or a later fabrication. Also, in a separate rendition of Iliad, Menelaus actually survives till the end, and comes to slaughtering Helen. However, just as he was about to swing his sword to kill Helen, she drops down her robes, and the sight of her beauty made Menelaus drop his sword. This ending was confirmed by The Odyssey as well, where it was shown that Helen had reconciled with Menelaus. However, all the renditions of Iliad do agree that Helen was getting fed up with the weakness of Paris after staying in Troy. Even in the primary source, Homer wrote that Helen loathed herself for coming to Troy and bringing hardship to the country. She went on to regret having associated with Paris, and felt that Menelaus would have been a stronger man for her. However, mythology is always fun to think about.

[@prabhatsourya3883]

@Odysseus Monte Cristo That’s a great metaphor for the attraction of Helen towards Paris.

[@krisbrown6692]

"The Trojan wall was only breachable through deception, much like these condoms."

[@highlandergunn9240]

One of the reasons I like this movie is Sean Bean doesn't die RARE 😂

[@Tannhauser62]

Steven Fry was far from the first writer to interpret the gods as internal mental voices. For absolute mastery of making the gods ambiguous and inhabiting the ancient Greek mindset, read Mary Renault.

[@scipio7837]

The root of the story is Priam begging Achilles for Hector's return... Achilles is now able to grieve and an old man is able to forgive.

[@CameronJamesPhillips]

History fact for you. Noon originally meant 3pm as it derives from the Latin term Nona Hora, or also known as the canonical hour of nones, which means the ninth hour. As in the ninth hour from sunrise, which would be when the monks would wake up at 6am. It wasn't until some time after the medieval times that noon came to be synonymous with mid-day in English. The Romans specifically called noon Meridiem. It's what the M in AM and PM stands for. AM= Ante-Meridiem. PM= Post-Meridiem. Meridiem means Mid-Day. This is all a long way of saying that the Trojans saying noon is factually incorrect. Funnily enough on two separate levels one could interpret. The first being that the word noon had not been invented yet. The second being that Benioff 100% is likely referring to midday when he has the character say noon but in actuality is really saying 3pm. So yeah. He should have just said Mid-Day

[@kevinnorwood8782]

Very happy you guys jumped on the Troy reaction bandwagon as well! If you guys get the chance, PLEASE react to the Jerry Bruckheimer King Arthur movie that came out the same year as Troy starring Clive Owen and Kiera Knightley. As a lifelong King Arthur mythology fan, I can honestly say the 2004 King Arthur film is legitimately one of the absolute greatest movie adaptations of the legend. It's a film that tries to achieve the same objective as Troy does: make a centerpiece myth in world mythology seem like a historical story that actually happened. But of the two, I (and as it turns out, a lot of professional film critics as well) strongly feel that King Arthur actually achieves MORE success with that goal than Troy does! So far, to my knowledge, literally NOBODY has done a reaction video to this film, and I think such a video is LONG overdue, so I really hope you two will give it a reaction!

[@Cyberrat629]

2004 King Arthur and Tears of the Sun are the same movie...change my mind 👀

[@guntherpiedmont4529]

I didn't like how George kept bringing up the Iliad. This was trying to bridge the Iliad and the real war that took place. So it took out out the mythological stuff and portrayed the Iliad in a realistic way.

[@Xagzan]

A Sean Bean Odyssey would've been neat, but for my money the 2-part Armand Assante version from the 90s was very entertaining, and quite faithful. Even had Christopher Lee as Tiresias.

[@kingleech16]

Christopher Lee was good in everything. Even in really terrible drek he tried his best to make it fun to watch (look at you, Dr. Fu Manchu!). A legend.

[@Random-qo6br]

One of many resons I like this movie is because Agamemnon wages war against Troy not for his "brother" king of Sparta, but for his own political and economical reasons. Back in that time there where two options: eather greeks will rule over the aegean sea and trade, or the trojans. The same thing was during wars between Rome and Carthago. The same we have now between Washington and Beijing. Funny how people don't learn their history lessons.

[@PanzerShrek94]

That reference with Achilles decapitating the statue of Apollo In the Story it's Apollo who helps Paris shoot Achilles in the heel. so in a way he did take revenge in the movie.

[@nsasupporter7557]

Yes, what was so stupid in that scene was after he chopped off the statue’s head, he said “it’s too early in the day for killing princes.” Yet you’re gonna chop off the head of a statue that represents their god 🙄

[@PredicadorLC]

George kept saying all the time that Aquiles and Patroclus were lovers but the Iliad does not say that, they were very close friends since childhood. Men can have strong friendship relations without being homosexual but I guess that's something that George's generation can not understand.

[@jamesdawson2393]

I'm glad you mentioned Stephen Fry's books. Mythos, Heroes, and his latest installment Troy are all excellent reads I recommend them highly.

[@Spikeelsucko]

for something adapted by DB he didn't really deviate from the core narrative as badly as some people make out, while certain things are left out and certain characters are slightly "cartoonized", it's almost all in service of the movie not being 7 hours long (as badass as that would be) and all the characters serve the narrative purposes they originally did- I consider it a pretty decent adaptation objectively speaking.

[@koushikraja331]

Man, as much as I like extended versions of movies, I do love the original score they had composed during the hector vs Achilles fight, which was very minimal and very tense.

[@cafeabasedecinema]

Using Planet of the Apes score in this scene was a terrible choice. Too loud and distractive

[@danielhaynes2373]

Achilles did not love Briseis only for herself, he mostly prized her as a gift from his men and he did love his men and the common soldier. She was all the more precious to him for that.

[@jroldo8353]

I'm shocked that you are doing your best to absolutely tank the movies narrative by continuously reminding her 'they were lovers'. That's for the after discussion, not every 2 minutes in movie.

[@holdensmith2556]

This is your reminder that Achilles and Patroclus weren’t gay in the Iliad.

[@quicksimplebeauty]

They didn't change the familial relationship between Achilles and Patroclus. They were cousins. and maybe something else, too in the original, but they were cousins in the Iliad as well

[@danielwilliamson6180]

5:02 Troy is a classic. Diane Kruger was perfectly cast as Helen, and she should had got an Oscar nomination.

[@personatodo]

Watch The Odyssey starring Armand Arsante, it's really good and kept all the mythical elements. It may be Hallmark movie but a really good one and much more accurate than Troy during the Trojan war. Great performance, direction and writing.

[@hansolo1225]

Or the version starring Kirk Douglas from the 1950s

[@ruggerobelloni4743]

The Assante version left out the dog Argo greeting his master with his last breath and the Douglas movie has the Cyclop drunk on fresh juice just to show the Greeks stomping on the grapes. As someone points out below the 1968 version with Irene Papas as Penelope Is the only artistic one. Most of my american Friends did not realize that we are dealing with Great literature at the Core of western culture and not a Xena episode. ( Big crush on Lucy lawless , I confess).

[@choomah]

Discussing sex scenes; George: "Keep our hands above the table. 😅" Simone: "Hahaha omg, no!" *With her hand out of frame below. 🤨📸

[@Wyrmksc]

It all started when Eris was not invited to a wedding and she threw a golden apple with the word " KALLISTI" (For the most beautiful) into the party. This started the goddesses bickering and calling Paris to judge.

[@autowaagh99]

James Cosmo almost always plays a old guy with a beard that’s in the Middle Ages or earlier lol.

[@ThunderForce2000]

IMO Hector is the real hero of Troy. It’s hard for me to get invested in Achilles because his only motive is he want to fight for glory while Hector wants to fight to protect his people.

[@marthapackard8649]

In the question of whose side are you on my answer is HECTOR'S!

[@ebear2421]

Couldn’t get through this one. Seemed like the primary focus was the difference between the movie, a book and way more jokes about the dialogue. Oh well, looking forward to more reactions.

[@JulianP311]

I always get the sense that these guys don’t really like movies. They constantly mock them these days. For example, a movie that departs from the source material… 🤔 For this to be a point worth making, you’d have to show me a movie that doesn’t do that.

[@bpopa27]

The guy at 21:08 it's James Cosmo he's in a lot of these type of movies He plays Lord Mormont in GoT , Hanish's dad in Braveheart, so does Hamish/Menelaus (Brendan Gleeson) play in a lot of these kind of movies . Underrated actors

[@BlackCountrySoul1]

James Cosmo is also the head of the Clan Macleod in the original Highlander movie.

[@nicolasgde3817]

This is the long version, which gives more material and respects more Benioff's adaptation, and the decision to make Hector and Odysseus the good guys, and make the story about the madness of ambitious conqueror. But I don't understand why they changed the best themes from James Horner. The original score was more epic.

[@10Juran]

The Iliad is written from the Greek perspective so obviously Paris will be depicted as the ultimate villain but from the Trojan perspective, Paris and Helen were in love

[@kevinjs26]

This is one of the most underrated movies and one of my favorites. I love Greek stuff especially Iliad and Odyssey. This movie is a treat.

[@bcn1gh7h4wk]

15:20 technically mid-day is "high noon". dawn, sunrise, noon, high noon, afternoon, sundown, dusk, night. with each block being roughly 3 hours long, 3x8 = 24. that's what you use in an ancient era videogame where you don't have clocks and you need to make a daylight system :D

[@mito66]

For another retelling, I recommend The Song Of Troy, by Colleen McCullough. Each chapter is from another characters perspective. Odysseus really earns his rep.

[@Yora21]

Taking trophies from defeated enemies to display them in the temple was a common custom in Greece. The horse being taken into the city was perhaps not guaranteed to work, but it made sense to try it out.

[@derrickmarais]

In my opinion Hector(Eric Bana) is one of the only, if not the only really good characters in all of Greek mythology.

[@Fyrecide]

The lines you don't remember are from the extended cut, not present in the theatrical/original DVD cut. There's a bunch of them and they definitely add to the movie.

[@Valkyraw]

Just so theres no misunderstanding, Troy and Trojans are not greek, they were Anatolians like todays population in Turkey. The horse you see in the movie was gifted to Turkey after they finished filming, you can find the exact same horse from the movie in Turkey now.

[@morphman86]

There were a lot of pokes about Brad Pitt here, but he had an interesting time filming this. Yes, he did work out... but only for this role. He worked hard to get a body similar to that of the statues of Achilles. He also made a gentlemen's agreement with Eric Bana for that duel. They would not use stunt doubles and instead pay each other for any hits they made by accident. $50 for a light hit, $100 for a heavy hit. At the end of shooting, Pitt owed Bana $750 and Bana didn't owe Pitt anything...

[@xeno-andrew]

I thought the rest of that was that Brad owed himself 100 too…

[@Heathen9]

BraveHeart was the film back in 1995 the truly upped the ante when it came to grand scope Battles.

[@IcemenMike45]

6:04 you're watching the extended Director's Cut of this movie, which imo is far better than the theatrical version

[@Brendissimo1]

I would recommend that when one of you has seen the film before, that person ought to take a secondary role during the reaction itself, so the focus can be on the authentic reaction. Then during the discussion you can open it up more.

[@tremorsfan]

When Heinrich Schlieman discovered Troy he actually dug past the time when the war was supposed to take place. So in finding Troy he destroyed the Troy of Homer. Also, it looks like you watched the extended edition.

[@nopenahman7380]

27:15 Silly woman. Thinking marriage is about 'love' lol

[@definitelydelish]

Eric Bana and Brad Pitt's fight was entirely them, no stunt doubles and they had a bet to pay for each accidental hit. I believe Brad owed Eric several hundred after the fight and Eric owed Brad nothing. They both did amazing. The extended edition was a bit better then the theatrical version, no LOTR or even "Kingdom of Heaven" [Road Show--Extended Version] with Orlando Bloom, even. Def think you should check out Kingdom of Heaven Extended if you haven't seen it, Ridley Scott (Gladiator) [Definitely worth watching, with Liam Neeson, Eva Green, Michael Sheen, David Thewlis (Lupin), Brendan Gleeson, Jeremy Irons, Edward Norton, Alexander Siddig, and Marton Csokas (Equalizer)]