true crime is bad

[@Southboundpachyderm]

The thing that bothers me most about true crime is the arm chair psychology that gets done and it ends up just reaffirming and ignoring everything that’s wrong with the justice system. People watch like 3 episodes of true crime shit and think they know everything about criminal psychology and half the comments on those videos end up being “this wouldn’t have happened if we just executed the person” and the other half of them are just taking whatever the Podcaster says and repeating it without any critical thought.

[@whisperingleaves]

Truly understanding and critical thought on these processes and policies, would take months if not years for people to process and learn. The typical person would be woefully bored 15 minutes in, when actually learning how much policy and bureaucracy actually affects policing procedures.

[@jho7659]

@@whisperingleaves ok and? So either spend the time learning or stfu bout it and stay offline

[@jackiealexander92530]

Yesss you hit it on the nail. I am a school counselor and I took many psychology classes, including criminal psychology. I am also into true crime, and I watch many shows on ID like The Murder Tapes, and it’s interesting for me to see the process of investigation, and the uncovering of the story and of course motive. But it gets so annoying to see people who all of a sudden think they understand what a personality disorder is or how pleading insanity works.

[@namelesslang5909]

I know this feeling all too well. I've watched some True Crime stuff from time to time when I get interested and I've made it a goal to never look at the comments sections again. At least one person on one of the videos I watched came to the conclusion that the left was responsible for serial killers, and there's an overabundance of people who just shout about the importance of the death penalty or ignoring due process, even when the videos show the effects of ignoring due process.

[@saudade7842]

JCS is true crime, just with a focus on the interrogation process, the psychology behind the process, and on the actions of the cops/the suspect's reactions to the cops' actions

[@maryedmonds4350]

He always interested me

[@zettatrigger]

Jcs it's top tier KZbin content. The editing research and skips for those videos is so superb.

[@ComptonFalcon]

I think JCS is the least predatory of these kinds of channels and they seem to pick cases where the cops didn't act in bad faith/the perpetrator was clearly in the wrong That said I can't shake the feeling that it's copaganda when I watch him talk fondly about police interrogation techniques and other stuff

[@captainjoy8976]

Dreading is a very similar channel content wise. They're showing interrogation footage and play emergency calls etc. I like that style of content that is almost not at all focused on the victim rather on the perpetrators and what might've driven them and what their background is

[@RetroRockGamer]

JCS was short lived, didn't they make like 17 videos and haven't posted in a year?

[@hieithefox]

Honestly there is actually a subset of the true crime community that agree with you and call out the bad practices especially the people who do investigations and harass family’s well as people who idolize murders

[@hoathanatos6179]

Yeah. These are the reasons why it is illegal in South Korea to release any information now on criminals.

[@FrostySumo]

I don't know why people call this just a subset. It's pretty much what the entire community is like that nowadays. Pretty much anyone that was really exploitive has been ran out or is marginalized. Respect of the victim is like rule number one for making responsible true crime content. The early days of true crime were like the wild west but things that happen now are really well researched and curated. The modern true crime community does far more good for humanity then bad.

[@hieithefox]

@@FrostySumo it’s definitely the majority who don’t support that behavior a subset just means a part of a larger group and we still unfortunately do have bad eggs and probably always will

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@FrostySumo Didn't Vaush point out that one of these cases literally involved someone talking about the Amber Heard trial with the exact voyeuristic approach that characterizes the actual problem at hand? Was he just factually incorrect about that? If not, then the point stands.

[@FrostySumo]

@@FelisImpurrator Sure but you can make that same argument for debate bros that copy Vaush. There's at least one out there that is toxic doesn't mean that vaush's style is bad or even that the majority of the popular debate bros are bad. If the community is policing itself I don't see a problem. People don't have to like it but the true crime community actually has done demonstratively good work. It is maybe a quarter of the people that sit around and essentially regurgitate Wikipedia at you. All the really popular ones actually do research and put spin on it. Go watch coffeehouse crime or something (yes JCS is true crime). Search popular true crime these days the podcasts actually delve deeper and do better research than the 50 minute documentaries. It's like arguing movies are bad because 33% of movies aren't great. If I went and saw morbius and then extrapolated that to every movie I wouldn't be making a informed take on a subject. Vaush has done no research about this and is stuck in 2012.

[@seaotter4439]

Honestly I wanna see more people like Coffeehouse Crime, someone who's actually respectful toward the victims and their families. Showing ample and genuine sympathy for them.

[@leovicious6992]

unless you smoke pot.

[@seaotter4439]

@@leovicious6992 ?

[@RyanStorey1231]

Kendall Rae is pretty good too. She often gets the victims' families involved and interviews them in her videos. Her vibes might seem too... "basic conservative white girl", but from what I've seen, she seems pretty based.

[@luvdisneyv]

Question would Mrballen count as True Crime?

[@ko2vo]

Yeah I'm glad I've basically never watched watched any of the true crime he's describing. Disturban is really somber and respectful about the stories he covers; I also enjoy the podcast Morbidology, though I am very behind but she has run her blog and published books on the subject and is always thorough and respectful. Both are also very upfront about calling out police or government incompetence. EDIT: Shrouded Hand is also another I would recommend for someone who impresses the gravity of the crimes he discusses.

[@cleardrop4531]

You’re just wrong vaush. There, did my yearly disagreement with vaush.

[@mariomario1462]

Sad tbh

[@QuartzIsAnOxide]

Iirc he thinks videogames should cost more because they're more expensive to make nowadays. Nevermind the fact that the potential market is larger today than it's ever been, and that companies dig themselves into that hole by overspending in marketing and photorealistic graphics. That's something you should have no problem disagreeing with lmao

[@hiderrsupbrah23]

I think this being a joke flew over everyone's head

[@internetanon952]

@@QuartzIsAnOxide Not the worst take but that would be implying companies would use higher potential profit to improve their games. We've all played a game from a company that made a boatload and the game is janky.

[@RenEmell]

@@hiderrsupbrah23 help explain, I’m dumb

[@dakodastevens8972]

Simon does a true crime podcast called the Casual Criminalist, and he always points out how utterly incompetent most the police are in these cases. I quite enjoy it.

[@Techyena]

Yeah! I love that podcast so much. Simon’s a cool guy, I always seem to share his frustration w the police, understandably. I love how you can walk into that podcast with a bingo sheet: Police incompetence, bad childhood, etc etc

[@revenge3265]

Tbh, that's a LOT of true crime I've watched and made me dislike cops more than I already do lmao. I feel like people go out of their way to watch anyone who's spouting copaganda (or pretend to/copy the opinions of a few people for some easy critique) to come to this conclusion. The biggest problem I've seen, is usually commentors (saying some questionable things) and certain big public cases (the shitstorm that was Heard V Depp).

[@lietz13]

It's pretty hard to tell a satisfying true crime story AND not explicitly endorse the police, because a satisfying story needs a resolution at the end. Unknowns are no good. That means lots of stories where the police were actually effective at what they are supposed to do for once, and that adds a hero/villain dynamic. The reality is they're lazy, slow, uncaring, ineffective, and expensive. They're only any good at hassling the poor and working class.

[@dakodastevens8972]

@@revenge3265 Oh yeah, I generally agree, The Casual Criminalist doesn't cover stuff like Heard V Depp though, its generally a deep dive into a lot of interesting/horrific/famous killers and kidnappings and such, and a running thread through a lot of them that Simon always points out is "This could have been solved way sooner or people could have been saved if the police only did their job". Not saying true crime is a great genre, even stuff like this there is certainly a large element of exploitation to it, but I also find it fascinating.

[@journeymanic9605]

Simon is also incredibly good at being respectful to the victims, and has only gotten better at it. And yeah the podcast does not hold back on how terrible the police are.

[@AlexAustralis]

Okay but unironicallythat very last thing Vaush mentioned about getting an email asking how to integrate leftist themes into D&D games (or storytelling in general) could be a really fun, chill segment for the Vaush pit like the Art Review thing from a few weeks back

[@LongshotLynx]

@DeltaFrost117 WTF does your comment have to do with irony or the lack there of? Do you also literally use “literally”, literally when you mean literally what you say?

[@jeremymr]

For an informative and thoughtful true crime podcast, I recommend The Philosophy of Crime by James Renner. It has episodes like... "How can lawyers defend guilty people?", "Does reward money ever help solve cases?", "School shooters and toxic masculinity", etc.

[@carolyntalbot947]

Excellent, thank you!

[@FelisImpurrator]

Oh hey. He has an episode called "Are killers just born bad". If the answer isn't no I will be very disappointed.

[@SirKemzyGodle]

@@FelisImpurrator how’d it go?

[@FelisImpurrator]

@@SirKemzyGodle Haven't seen it yet.

[@CSXIV]

"How can you defend the guilty?" This is the story that made me want to be a Public Defender: a former prosecutor turned public defender talked about how she was pressured to try a case where she not only felt the defendant was innocent, but the evidence she had (that she was pressured not to turn over which she is required to do) seemed to indicate that. This led her to leave the prosecutors office and join the public defenders office. In her own words "I felt better representing the guilty then prosecuting the innocent."

[@kurtallen12]

I think there's *some* truth to what you say, but my experience with true crime has not quite been how you describe. I've been listening to you for a few years now and I agree with the vast majority of your political takes, so I promise I'm not just being a moderate liberal lol. I actually think there is some political value to listening to true crime if you're acting in good faith. So many serial killers are the extreme conclusion of attitudes and behaviors our society did/does encourage. And I'd argue the majority of cases covered can, in some way, speak to the massive impact that poor socio-political circumstances can have on people. Not to mention the infuriating amount of police incompetence and indifference. I also find that at least the people I listen to are really mindful to be respectful of the victims, to avoid the sleazy sensational tone while covering the cases. And lastly, I think a lot of the appeal just comes from a curiosity of the strangest/darkest corners of life. Serial killers in particular are just so radically different than your average person, it's hard to understand them and that's interesting. And I understand that most people aren't connecting things in a socio-political sense, but I still think inklings of that can enter their thoughts as a result. Maybe I'm just biased bc I've loved true crime for a long time, but I just thought I'd share those thoughts here.

[@FelisImpurrator]

The issue is that most people tend to participate in these things with a sense of moralistic voyeurism. By that I mean, they use these stories to reinforce their belief that there are some people in this world who are just good and just bad, and those are different kinds of people, and that they're the good ones. They couldn't possibly do THAT horrible thing, because they're good people and they can single out some class of people (usually "psychopaths" or "sociopaths") as some essentially inhuman Ur-Villain archetype. Some convenient boogeyman that helps people avoid acknowledging the difficult reality that "evil" is indeed banal, that it is unexceptional and committed not by monsters but by people who are fundamentally and ultimately just like them. That's often the most difficult thing for people to accept: There is no Evil Gene or Criminal Disorder. People do harm due to underlying social and environmental forces that lead them to certain behaviors. And as it was said of the Unabomber (Alston Chase, The Atlantic, 2000): "It is true that many believed Kaczynski was insane because they needed to believe it. But the truly disturbing aspect of Kaczynski and his ideas is not that they are so foreign but that they are so familiar ... We need to see Kaczynski as exceptional-madman or genius-because the alternative is so much more frightening." And that leads to the root of many people's fascination with what they consider evil. It's an insidious but almost ubiquitous thought process that roughly goes, "No, don't blame society, because we're Normal and Normal is Good and Healthy! All of this must be rooted in the fundamentally sinful or broken nature of the individual who transgresses against us. We could never do that. Our ideas could never lead to that. Because we're the good ones. Right? Right?" Because the alternative is undergoing the long and difficult process of introspection, and maybe even having to face the conclusion that - as societies and as people - we create our own monsters by fundamentally failing them. By creating and reinforcing, or simply failing to challenge, systems and norms that lead to destructive ends if taken to their logical conclusion. We are Fucking Around, and when a serial killer or school shooter or QAnon gunman appears on the news, we are Finding Out.

[@FelisImpurrator]

Also, I can't make absolute statements, of course, because no sociological or psychological claim is really an absolute guarantee (and neither is any scientific claim but that's another story), but... Not once have I ever seen or heard of a single case in which it could reasonably be argued that someone was Just Evil. That they killed or exploited others for no reason other than because they could and wanted to, or that nothing could have been done to dissuade them. Even in research, it has been shown that clinical psychopathy does not impair someone's ability to make utilitarian decisions (i.e., decisions that benefit, not necessarily selfishly, but are generally beneficial to everyone) but rather impairs consensus/authority-based morality (do it because we say so) or deontological/harm-aversive morality (don't do it because it could hurt people). The latter generally correlates to low personal fear and self-consciousness, and thus indicates more so indiscriminate behavior (equal disregard for harm to others and self - not an active desire to harm others as the goal). The former simply means that the demands of authority are insufficient for compliance. But a psychopath can be taught to behave in ways that ensure mutual benefit just as well as any other human, and sometimes even better (because social comparisons, which psychopaths lack, can drive harmful behaviors such as discrimination or toxic competition - tribalism, as it were, is a hell of a drug). So it suggests to me that we are simply failing to teach people good, justified reasons why they should act in the interest of society rather than just themselves. It's also been argued that genuine sadism actually requires empathy, and it makes sense. If you are insensitive to other people's fear or pain it makes no sense to have an obsessive fascination with those feelings in others. Interesting side note. There's more, but this is the stuff I have actual research data on beyond my hypotheses.

[@sookendestroy1]

Casual criminalist is pretty good, basically every episode is like "and the police did nothing"

[@Nerobyrne]

Hey that's not true. They got paid

[@Anthropomorphic]

Is that part of the concept, or just the way it often turns out?

[@bluespaceman7937]

I hope the podcast is good.

[@David_Bower]

I remember Simon once mentioning something along the lines of every episode is where the completely incompetent criminal, finally gets caught by the only slightly less in incompetent police.

[@-sanju-]

Simon (and his writers/editors) is pretty good. I watch some of his other channels but not Casual Criminalist 'cause true crime stuff makes me kinda depressed and paranoid.

[@ASolidSnack]

I'll at least vouch for Last Podcast On the Left who are virulently anti-cop

[@EVMjimmy]

I absolutely love these guys, probably listened to every main episode

[@92Jdmsupra]

They are awesome!

[@crabohato4954]

vowch

[@greanbeen2816]

@@crabohato4954 Vowsh

[@BrandonL337]

Haven't listened to them in a while, but True Crime Garage is good about pointing out police misconduct, though I wouldn't call them anti-cop

[@ghengis423]

This just sounds like vaush doesn't like something and is coming up with reasons that its "objectively bad". Its just interesting to hear about crime stories, I'm sure a lot of people of all backgrounds would agree with that.

[@francescov.3610]

I gotta say, I love Vaush but sometimes he is so fucking annoying when he does that. Just because he doesn't happen to be a fan of something doesn't make it "objectively bad". People have different tastes and not everybody has to share the same tastes that he does.

[@Warsmith_The]

Not to mention the damage control of saying that JCS (which is probably the first thing any of us think of when we hear "true crime") isn't true crime, since he can't sincerely say that JCS is bad.

[@Saktoth]

I like true crime, but you can't say it's not totally gross to turn people's real life experiences into drama and scary stories. Like Tiger King, completely disgusting, even if you enjoyed it you have to admit that.

[@internetanon952]

Yep, he does this all the time and then adds "liberal" to it to make it sound bad. Unironically I feel like this entire opinion was crafted because that one tweet he mentions.

[@TheLithp]

There are some problems with true crime, but in true Vaush fashion, he overstates the case.

[@ScarlettR61]

Zodiac is a great film that deconstructs the true crime sensationalism and shows how cold cases are just random murders prolonged by media spectacle, police incompetence, and nightmarish bureaucracy.

[@darkforest4891]

Love that film I felt like it could of had another hour of Jake Gyllenhalls character just decending into madness

[@cyn1clcynide]

@@darkforest4891 Zodiac could have easily been a miniseries

[@isaacbenzing5686]

I love zodiac but i dont think that was the point of the movie, especially since it was directly based on the sensational true crime book about the zodiac written by robert graysmith. It actively rpomotes incorrect information from graysmiths book as if its fact. Like I said it is a great movie, but the movie has the same agenda as graysmiths book does; which is anything but a satirical take on true crime.

[@ScarlettR61]

@Isaac Benzing Yeah you’re probably right. There is a lot of misinformation. However I do think the way it’s presented specifically tried to downplay (with mixed results) the brutal nature of the killings and just showing the arbitrary and messy nature of it all in as unsatisfying and bleak a way possible. Especially since Se7en was way more gratuitous and sensational. But that’s just what I got out of it. I’m probably wrong

[@darciheadswillroll]

The true crime you’re talking about is the ultra specific genre, watching A KZbinr basically make a forensic files episode isn’t so bad, but I do see a few things in true crime communities I dislike, like racism when the victim and perp are of 2 different races (and it wasn’t a hate crime) some KZbinrs making light of real people who’ve died and suffered etc etc. The white women tea crime podcast I don’t condone, they glorify killers, disrespect victims, and think that’s just because they heard the story of John Wayne Gaycee they can solve a irl case

[@QT5656]

It sounds like you're referring to the My Favourite Murder podcast .

[@jdprettynails]

@@QT5656 No way....My Favourite Murderer Podcast is like that on purpose. Ever heard of satire?

[@QT5656]

@@jdprettynails oh yeah nudge nudge wink wink ha ha let's talk about the gory details again ha ha let's joke about being murdered big joke ha ha let's talk about how gross the murder was again ha ha my gut is telling me bla bla I can't remember what the evidence was again ha ha snort we're so unprepared ha ha nudge nudge ha ha just joking

[@QT5656]

@@jdprettynails I don't hate My Favourite Murder. I even like some episodes. However, they frequently do glorify killers and cross the line of sincerity regardless of whether or not they are being satirical.

[@jdprettynails]

@@QT5656 What you call "glorifying" is actually spreading awareness. A friend of my sister's boyfriend was murdered by one of those killers and she said My Favourite Murderer actually gave her closure after her death!

[@zoologygirl252]

maybe I'm just on the weird side of true crime but I've never developed an anxiety disorder from enjoying it? I typically watch people who are more respectful about the subject though

[@madeline5493]

We’re in Hell did a good analysis of how many (not all) true crime podcasts advertise home security systems, which is kind of gross. I think it’s what Vaush is referring to

[@bobtheball5384]

Nah you're not, I feel like vaush is just conflating the people who watch true crime as in the more damning reason as to why you would consume content like this is to worry about your neighbors or anyone around you who could be a murderer, rather than just people who are just curious.

[@8bitdiedie]

@@bobtheball5384 Tbf I know a lot of people who watch these and seem to get off on the anxiety it gives them. They develop a weird addiction to these shows just like people who develop weird addictions to doomscrolling. Obviously not all of them but you can tell a lot specifically watch this like someone watches a horror movie and loss interest it if its not “scary enough”

[@NostalgiaUnicorn]

Same. I've just always had an interest in the subject. I have PTSD, the last thing I want to do is fixate on anything that causes me anxiety episodes so any true crime video that goes over the top is an automatic "no thanks" and gets turned off. I don't want to be scared or paranoid and I don't want all the gory disgusting details. I'm not looking for true crime hints in real life. It's not a controlling force in my life. Tbf, I grew up watching Columbo and other murder/mystery shows and I'm pretty sure that's where my enjoyment of that content started. It might be why I can walk away from it without becoming fixated too.

[@MylesMarrero]

Last Podcast on the Left is the only true crime podcast worth listening to imo, the older episodes (pre episode 150ish) are hit or miss but ever since then it's been nothing but well-researched bangers imo. They're not scared of calling out police in plain terms either, in many series they pin them as elements of multiple people's deaths due to incompetence or laziness.

[@EmotionsNeverLie]

I love Last Podcast on the Left. I started listening to them in 2012 and I'm still following them.

[@soptop1641]

They taught me about the concept of the "less dead" in the eyes of law enforcement

[@MariattaAino]

LPOTL is so fucking good. Same goes for Someplace Under Neith, a podcast on the Last Podcast Network, hosted by Amber Nelson and Natalie Jean (Henry's wife). It focuses on missing women (and to them women means transwomen too).

[@pokeholicmaster]

That whole network is amazing. LPOTL, Abe Lincoln's Top Hat, Wizard and the Bruiser, they're all bangers

[@narikobeilschmidt]

hail yourself comrade! the john list series (438) starts with the boys talking about the rise of capitalism contributes to anomic type familicides - because the perpetrators associate their family with their economic failings and financial stress. things which certainly comes with that good ol' ruthless american corporate lifestyle!

[@trashrabbit69]

*watches a whole group of people get dismembered and beheaded before my very eyes as a serial killer decimates the community and i'm next in line* "Whoa dude! This is just like my favorite true crime podcast!!! Where's the newspaper clippings!??"

[@Meladjusted]

Watching/listening to true crime over my lifetime has shown me how incredibly incompetent the police are-regardless of where it's produced, honestly. The cops SO often neglect to help someone in any way from being victimized by their future murderer, neglect to follow up on credible leads, they foolishly compromise crime scenes, etc, etc. It genuinely doesn't matter if you're watching on something like Discovery ID or listening to various podcasts, you're gonna repetitively hear this. It's part and partial to true crime... I'm sure there are YT channels, etc, who are pro-cop out there, who angle their retellings, but they're definitely not the majority. I would have _never_ said true crime is just angled towards making cops out to be heroes or making the justice system seem totally competent. Ever, lol. But ok, Vaush. Sounds like you don't listen to true crime, don't know what the overall feel of it actually is, and formed an opinion based on the stereotypical listener base. 👍

[@bugmancer]

That's exactly what he did...this vid is just clickbait atp

[@rainbowkrampus]

parcel*

[@QT5656]

There are some crappy KZbin channels that do exactly what he says but overall I agree with you - that's not what all true crime is. Shreds, Black Hands, and the Teacher's Pet all cover police incompetence.

[@QT5656]

My Favourite Murder is also sometimes similar to what he's describing.

[@LoneWulf278]

THAT LAST PART. 👏🏽

[@zebraskin]

There is a true crime podcast about the incompetence of cops, well at least in an area. It's called algorithm.

[@xRickAstleyx]

i just like learning about how detectives solve murders. its really interesting to me

[@jidk6565]

My dad who is now a year away from 60 loves true crime things It's kinda hilarious And since he's such a kind guy it makes the entire thing seem less paranoia inducing for me

[@carsoncarothers2282]

I listen to a lotta true crime. i listen to it at night. I like the girl talk vibes, they make me feel alright. I like scary storries in the morning, and I like 'em at night.

[@estebandelasexface8193]

I feel like this is a thing where the bad/disrespectful stuff is far and away the minority but that's what gets clipped. I've never once in my life encountered any of that. Coffeehouse Crime, Mr Ballen, Disturban, Shrouded Hand, That Chapter, Eleanor Neale etc etc. These are the big names in True Crime and none of them do any of that shit. And they certainly don't downplay police incompetence lol. There are many many many videos showcasing how badly the police fuck up.

[@yan_dj]

I agree, doing fake crime like Grand Theft Auto is much more ethical

[@Spongebrain97]

There is some cringe that comes out of True Crime but one thing that should be stated is that crimes against non white people is often more highlighted there than it is on actual tv shows. An example that comes to mind is crimes against Native American and Canadian women which always gets swept under the rug

[@aug1014]

Couldn’t disagree more. As someone with no interest in true crime, the only true crime content I see out in the wild is about white women

[@lava172]

I'll recommend a good true crime channel, MrBallen does a great job telling the story and respecting the victims and their privacy

[@bohemondiofantioch539]

I also like the fact that he covers a lot of accidental deaths. For some reason they're more interesting to me than killers.

[@brownbear112]

I love MrBallen 😊

[@brownbear112]

@@bohemondiofantioch539 I agree ☝🏽

[@shuumatsunojoshua]

MrBallen is based

[@Takokujin07]

The only based way to do true crime, tbh

[@cnvrgnt]

Matt Orchard did a great video about the history and efficacy of the polygraph, and generally does JCS-videos about all sorts of topics, not just crime. Definitely recommend checking him out

[@imaniscott8535]

Hey Vaush, love you, dearly, you’re wrong, my dude. There are levels to the true crime community/group/genre. There are groups that focus on cases that are about abuse or that start in abuse and end in other cases. Others for just cults. Others for white collar crimes. I can go on forever, but I feel like you listened to like two or three episodes of various podcasts or KZbinrs (all female) and landed on that conclusion. There are so many podcasts and KZbin channels, and though most true crime is separated into “solved,” “unsolved,” and “on-going,” you can find many, many sub-interest for true crime and you’d be surprised about the different walks of life of people that are in the community. I believe, you don’t have to be into true crime to be progressive or just NOT conservative, but I do believe you can’t be conservative and be into true crime. You learn too much, and it will either break you away from a lot of bullshit beliefs, or it’ll give you the ammo to not want be conservative anymore. But that’s an opinion I have.

[@FelisImpurrator]

You could easily be into true crime and be hardcore conservative. All it takes is the willingness to constantly attribute crime to the essential moral failing of evil people who are fundamentally not like you. That's a thing that also... Well, happens all the goddamn time. There are a lot of good channels that don't do that. But then there's shit like mainstream crime shows that do that.

[@imaniscott8535]

@@FelisImpurrator call me gatekeeper, I'm probably coming off as gakekeepy anyway, and I can't help that. But I've never once met a conservative, a far right lunatic that claimed that our legal system was perfect (as they do until they lose an election) while being fully aware of cases where the system failed, in some cases by design, and others by pure incompetence. What I have seen are people that look fore cases that are on msnbc or fox new and they ramble about the latest victim of a crime more concerned about the offender and not the victim, and placing the offender on pedastall for being "so messed up." but again, I'm sure I'm just coming off as gatekeepy. I've been into true crime for over two decades, and as a former bigot myself seeing the injustices in those cases helped me understand how wrong my view points were. And I've met others who have felt the same. And some tried to hold on tight, but ironically, Trump's stupid Border wall and the injustices around brown people at the border helped push them over the edge. But again, that's what I believe based on conversations, and things I've seen. I'm not saying this is something set in concrete.

[@narikobeilschmidt]

i think the only vaguely true crime topic a conservative would follow would be Q ... but that stuff aint exactly "true" lol

[@pri2x0x]

@@imaniscott8535 gatekeeper

[@imaniscott8535]

@@narikobeilschmidt yeah. To put it bluntly, they only care about true crime if it is directed towards them. As I said in another reply, if one thinks they can be into true crime but their consumption is just what shows up on the news I wouldn't say they're into true crime. As I believe based on various things, conservatives cannot be into true crime, it would blow holes it so much of their "ideals" that they couldn't continue to be in true crime. They're into morbid stuff. Which is very different. Or, at least, in my opinion, it is.

[@Hawkwood96]

I can see how being hyper fixated on specific details can be voyeuristic and anxiety-producing. That being said, I think your aversion to the genre might be from your potentual lack of exposure to good creators and an overexposure to the worst of the community. For one thing, watching political podcasts can be anxiety inducing, and can be slightly voyeuristic in its own way. For another, toxic anime fans make all anime appear super cringey (a lot of it is, but there are some real gems). So while I agree that true crime can be toxic and unhealthy, i don't think it's a rule that it is.

[@GustavTremendous]

The Last Podcast on the Left is the best true crime podcast, because it’s also cults, and conspiracy theories. Also it’s done by three men.

[@ROBOTPETER101]

They're very good on both making sure killers aren't romanticized and calling out how many cases would be quickly and easily solved if the police were competent or cared.

[@domenicgalata1470]

They are also hilarious, inappropriate and crass ( Henry mostly )with Marcus getting it back on the rails. Marcus’ other podcast with his wife No Dogs In Space is one if the better music podcasts I’ve heard in a while.

[@misanthropicmusings4596]

Unfortunately, it's owned by Spotify and they have the worst app for playing podcasts.

[@GustavTremendous]

@@misanthropicmusings4596 they ended their exclusivity deal earlier this year. They are on everything now.

[@misanthropicmusings4596]

@@GustavTremendous Sweet -- thank you!

[@dipsheets]

I had someone in my family murdered and I would honestly hate it for some true crime podcast to discuss it. Sometimes its so fucking disrespectful because they never give insight on the victims and only focus on the murderers :/

[@slackershrub8923]

FINALLY!! A CORRECT MEDIA TAKE!!

[@grimmrgoodbar6401]

Something about a broken clock…

[@fhennerius276]

If anything, true crime like JCS and EWU show just how important it is to NEVER talk to the cops. There are lots of interrogations that go from “I’m not saying shit to any of you” to “I killed her because she said no to sex and here’s where I buroed her.” Once the cops suspect you, they’ll use so many tactics to get a confession out of you.

[@CSXIV]

These are the magic words you should say in police interrogation: "I want a lawyer." Repeat until you get a lawyer.

[@mgamble1081]

Boze is best true crime youtuber. Mostly because she's not a agent of paranoia.

[@internetanon952]

Vaush call something bad without calling it liberal challenge.

[@Laura-oe2dl]

I feel like he's already concluded he doesn't like True Crime because a lot of women like it and then he just put together some BS post-hoc justification for why it's bad...like just because it's not political, it has no value to people who may just have an interest in the subject?

[@internetanon952]

@@Laura-oe2dl Your mistake was thinking because Vaush is a leftist that he isn't sexist. Every time he's doing "ironic" sexism or homophobia it's not actually ironic at all. This is fine, but he never admits as such which makes it frustrating because the way he always tries to legitimise his argument in the end.

[@nixien1496]

Man vaush's media takes are consistently terrible. Like SO bad. He's not exploring or understanding why women like this kind of media is a tedious failure in empathy. But the galling hypocrisy is when he claims that JCS which is just true crime geared towards a male audiences consumption isn't the same thing. There is certainly a reason why he can't do video essays on media analysis. If his political analysis wasn't useful for refining my own rhetoric then I would unsub.

[@internetanon952]

You know when Vaush is "ironically" sexist and homophobic? That's not ironic.

[@hexogramd8430]

Agreed

[@zking2929]

True, while true crime does have issues I don't entirely agree with vaush

[@MichaelVII_]

also on the point about police. I swear, 90% of true crime boils down to "the police shit the bed so many times, you can't even take this to court."

[@vylbird8014]

My objection to true crime isn't lack of sympathy for the victims. It's lack of sympathy for the offenders. True crime carefully avoids ever touching upon the wider social factors around what pushes a person towards crime. No mention of the pressures of poverty, or issues of mental health, or toxic cultural elements. It simplifies all that to a very childish morality: The criminal is just a bad and evil person, and we should all be happy that the state is going to lock them away, because they deserve to suffer. They even present the criminal like a cheesy TV villain - with slo-mo grainy footage and ominous villain-sting musical chords. It's utterly dehumanising, by intention. America has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, and part of the reason for that is a general refusal to implement rehabilitation programs or social policies that might prevent crimes. That is not what the population wants: They want the criminal scum to suffer, slowly and painfully.

[@JAMEXXORZ]

Then you're listening to the wrong true crime podcasts. All the ones that I frequently listen to *unequivocally* go into great detail to describe what background and hardships that lead to a person doing these horrible things.

[@belford6670]

Ya idk man. Nobody is doing a true crime podcast on the jailing of a person caught with a gram of weed. Most true crime focuses on heinous acts. While I agree that America has ridiculous incarceration rates it's not because of the people that most true crime podcasts focus on. I agree that mental health could be brought up more often but at some point, some acts disqualify you from humanity and most of these podcasts focus on these people. They might not deserve to be executed but given the lengths that their unfettered mental health issues take them to they would need to be supervised.

[@clark6318]

Very obvious you have never listened to any true crime podcasts or books, almost all of them focus heavily on the mental and societal issues that push the offenders towards their crime. That's like... a very big part of true crime. Horseshit Opinion.

[@loreleimonn3220]

It’s always bugged me the way people act abt true crime. It’s like fetishizing the situation, it’s so weird. Tbh, the only true crime I like is stuff on heists and stuff like that. Frank Abagnale Jr., D.B. Cooper, etc. That stuff’s cool

[@silversnailor]

DB Cooper doesn’t exist smh my head

[@strongbone9471]

@@silversnailor bro I'm literally D.B Cooper

[@midgelionhart]

Its just like any genre you like..its not weird..its educating..its also humanized the victims..and not to glorify the murderer etc..

[@loreleimonn3220]

@@silversnailor ??

[@loreleimonn3220]

@@midgelionhart in my experience, it’s not handled well. It’s often treated flippantly and revels in the speculation. Obviously, if it’s done in a way that is sensitive to the victims and their families and it’s not trying to capitalize on dramatization, then that’s good, but I haven’t come across that. The primary goal of true crime is to be entertaining, and when dealing with as serious of a crime as murder (when it’s a true story), it’s nearly impossible to do that. For example, those makeup true crime podcasts are really weird. Where a girl is just doing her makeup as she talks about truly heinous acts in an overly dramatic tone. This isn’t a good way to treat these issues. Or Buzzfeed Unsolved. Some of their videos are fun, but when it comes to murders and such, I find it incredibly distasteful. I haven’t seen much beyond that which has stuck with me bc my general response is disgust when I hear the way true crime podcasts/channels deal with these topics. Not to mention the fans who treat it especially flippantly. It’s “entertaining”, sure. But at what cost?

[@matthewatteberry8711]

I like watching cold case true crime murders that are later solved.

[@akkere4052]

I do wonder if the True Crime television deserves more critique for building the culture that True Crime podcasts festered in, especially when there are times when they sometimes dabble into investigations or invite investigations being done. Think Dateline NBC type shows.

[@JRexRegis]

IIRC didn't Dateline NBC cause a lot of predators to get off scot free because they grossly mishandled evidence by editing and releasing it on TV?

[@nervousbreakdown711]

If true crime is wrong, I don’t want to be right Though I stick mostly to documentaries

[@flowermom3507]

Uh oh Bailey sarian slander….. I kind of agree her Twitter was cringe. But she started a new pod in addition to the true crime one, that’s called “dark history “ where she goes over a lot of things that American schools don’t teach. I think it’s a good thing

[@RyanStorey1231]

Bailey Sarian is generally pretty based from what I can tell. She's hella funny as well.

[@flowermom3507]

@@RyanStorey1231 oh yeah I love her. I just know she had a couple tweets people were mad at her for. Which, I thought was pretty silly

[@RyanStorey1231]

@@flowermom3507 Yeah, she just admitted what every normal person thought: That the Depp/Heard trial was very entertaining. And it was. I guess Twitter was mad that she didn't see it as this very serious affair when all I saw it as was two toxic, divorced rich people being incredibly stupid and making their business everybody's business.

[@Katharoni]

I might be a white woman, and I may enjoy true crime, but I enjoy it because it's psychologically fascinating. The only stuff I watch are the stuff like jim cant swim and inspired stuff, where both sides are criticized and covered. I also watch That chapter, who really dives into the info, but he doesnt bother the family if the victims. He's super respectful to the victims but is still entertaining because of his personality. He's regularily talked about how cops suck ass, and absolutely calls out bad behavior of the police's part when they're failed to do their job.

[@carolyntalbot947]

My mother has always loved true crime, it's not for me. Too depressing, too real.

[@hyperboliccancers3269]

Then you are incompatible with the flow of life.

[@elloingo]

LPOTL true crime episodes are good and they largely pin it to police incompetence but they are on the level

[@lennycuellar]

yeah they were really critical of NY police for ignoring the serial killer that targeted sex workers. they also paint the killers as mediocre human failures and not big scary demon monsters

[@Laura-oe2dl]

Basically he doesn't like it because a lot of women (and not just white women btw) like it....how about attempting to understand why there is a strong gendered element to this interest in it

[@ihavenoideawhatgoeso]

Vaush idk what you're on about but lots of true crime is very responsible, often highlighting cop wrong doing and the disappearances of bi poc people. The big ones (like Crime Junkie yeah come for me) also spread awareness and assist in investigations. They can direct legitimate tips to help cold cases reach resolution. As long as the people are responsible and it doesn't make you paranoid I feel like it's important work.

[@TheBossBros73]

Vaush’s media takes are always confidently asserting stuff he doesn’t know and insulting the people who have different taste’s then him. Worst media takes in existance

[@internetanon952]

That's all of Vaush's takes though

[@hyperboliccancers3269]

Nah that's basically him on anything other than grooming the mentally ill.

[@wiggledixbubsy98]

Except this time he is right

[@hyperboliccancers3269]

@@wiggledixbubsy98 Not really. His take on this was sad and confused.

[@wiggledixbubsy98]

@@hyperboliccancers3269 how

[@peepance1799]

I've been saying this for years. I used to watch tons of documentaries that attempted to have a dispassionate 3rd person perspective, but for a while now "true crime" has gotten so big when its its basically just a soap opera. Not only that, but they often avoid any discussion of what or why the perpetrator acted in that way and just character them as cartoon villians.

[@cryb0rg]

Most of the big names in true crime are pretty respectful.

[@hexogramd8430]

Vaush being an r slur about all media he personally doesn’t like arc now-∞

[@MZSking]

As someone who used to consume alot of true crime, he isn't wrong.

[@hexogramd8430]

@@MZSking I do engage with true crime media but it’s not because I’m scared of the world, it’s because I find killers interesting. What makes their brain tick motivation etc. anyone who engages in true crime and it’s not primary because they are curious on the psychology of the killer is doing a disservice to themselves. True crime shouldn’t be anxiety inducing. I also know vaush has friends who do true crime podcasts so he clearly doesn’t care enough to stop being friends with them. Not to mention vaush has reacts to true crime before (JCS)

[@bigdopamine9343]

We call it Informative Murder Porn, or IMP now.

[@InnsmouthAdmiral]

This is the opinion of a person who hasn’t listened to last podcast on the left. But it’s another banger Vaush media take that sucks.

[@someone_stole_my_handle]

The one and only one good true crime channel is Elanor Neal, she: - doesn't do any weird stuff like apply makeup or eat a mukbang while talking about a case - doesn't put scary or dramatic music (or any music for that matter) in the background - doesn't play into people's paranoia -doesn't engage in wild speculation -doesn't cover super recent cases -doesn't give weight to junk science like polygraphs and body language - is respectful to the victim, their family and everyone involved - never victim blames -criticizes the police when they fuck up and when they discriminate against people of color, sex workers, etc - constantly covers hate crimes against poc, lgbt people, disabled people, etc - shows compassion to the perpetrator if they suffer from metal illness or were previously victims of abuse, without excusing their actions

[@Paper_Smith]

Why does Vaush look so sad in the thumbnail? 😭

[@sky-magnet]

That Chapter all day. Let give it a gooooo

[@bobbobsled8843]

Incoming people defending their one podcast fav

[@gur262]

So? If you are going to condemn something it seems very important to make that kind of destinction. Reality tv Formats are usually just awful and fake. Do they need to be though? No. There was a long running one in Germany about family Ritter. I can't say it wasn't voyeuristic etc. Perhaps exploitative. But it had value in showing how some sweet kids grew up to be drunks, thieves and neonazis due to their environment. And how authorities kinda failed em too.

[@mathiasschoenning]

This is not the rule. The true crime i listen to (not american?) does criticize the police when they feel they did their job bad

[@guywiththepanzerhausf6478]

Not helping some one who is in need of immediate help is an actual crime in Hungary, for example if you stand next to a guy and he collapses on the street, the law says you must provide him with at least some medical attention(as long as it does not risk your own health)and call ambulance, if you don't you could go to jail

[@tequilasunset8628]

Vaush still on his anti women arc I see

[@twilotealeaf1714]

Eh I like true crime. Also JCS is true crime. Can't backtrack on it because you personally don't like the genre. Listen vaush has good political takes but God are his media takes weird. "Because I don't enjoy it, it must be objectively bad". Lacks all nuance and respect to the channels that honor and respect the victims and raise funds for women's organizations, family's in need, and legal fees.

[@timothymcqueen3408]

I like listening to true crime the same way people like reading creepy short stories.

[@r.i.pmydog7723]

I like to listen to real people suffering and trauma as fun interment

[@hostomelhorsehoarder]

@@r.i.pmydog7723 what is interment

[@ChillingTales12]

@@r.i.pmydog7723 Why judging?

[@midgelionhart]

@@r.i.pmydog7723 you are reaching..🤡🤡

[@mattatr0n677]

True Crime suffers from the same repetitive BS all documentaries have. There's always a moment where things seem hopeless, but due to, let's say "grit and gumption", the protagonists or whoever the story is centering around persevere. IRL that hopeless moment might've amounted to a drop in a bucket, but if it gives us drama, put it in!

[@erickschusterdeoliveira2662]

100% agree, never has Vownsh been so right.

[@et734]

5:18 that’s why we need more platform screen doors!!

[@vargsvansify]

Vaush: True Crime is problematic Comments: Here’s five hundred True Crime shows that’s not like the others.

[@lx4079]

Well it's more like Comments: vaush doesn't actually know any true crime and instead imagines what it's like

[@rainsmith331]

I don't think anyone who consumes true crime podcasts and media to the level that he's referring to actually believes polygraphs to be an accurate measure of truth/lie. I listen to a couple of different true crime podcasts and the hosts regularly bring up the falsehood of lie detector tests and how they don't really work. Also it's like pretty common knowledge among the general masses that polygraphs are not even 80% accurate, and there are very easy ways to fake your way through one.

[@Tenwaystospoildinner]

A true crime podcast tried to get my mom on to talk about my missing brother. My mom... with brain damage. Whole thing felt so fucking scummy and manipulative.

[@higgs_kitten9878]

Some True Crime people I recommend: JCS Lazy Masquerade That Chapter Wendigoon Stephanie Harlow Danelle Hallen They all usually focus on crimes where there is some valid point to make surrounding the crimes. For instance, most if what they cover are cases of mishandling by police which is usually the focal point. Or they go through how the case has been solved.

[@RuSosan]

No Ciffeehouse Crime?

[@higgs_kitten9878]

@@RuSosan not one I actually watch, are they a long form podcast? I kinda struggle w those

[@RuSosan]

@@higgs_kitten9878 He makes videos, much in the vein of That Chapter or Lazy Masquerade. Similar average video length as well.

[@darkplace5032]

Damn wait until the infamous criminals I write to sell their letters here about this

[@iloveyourunclebob]

Kendall Rae is about the only True Crime content I consume.

[@krieginphernjacobson]

You know, I used to think that Vaush actually believes all the media takes he makes, but then I realized that it's all actually just one of the best acted trolls/pranks on a large scale I've ever seen. He's hinted at it before, talking about how the art of actual trolling is gone. He's said that, in the past, he would say things he knew were incorrect just to get people upset. That actual trolling is funny and all these alt righters have twisted the word's meaning. They would just be Nazis online, then, when confronted on it, would say something like "haha I got you, I'm just trolling you idiots" to wave off any criticism. Vaush is just trying to do the ultimate troll to take back the word from the alt-right. This bit he's doing, where he says a bunch of really dumb things about media, he's just doing it to beat the fascists. His political takes are always anti-fascist first and foremost, he even says that the most important job of socialists isn't necessarily to gain power, but to prevent fascists from gaining it themselves. Think about it, consider how hard it is to have an objectively wrong media take. Media is basically all subjective after all, so it would take real effort to be objectively wrong multiple times. Now imagine a person where 75% of their media takes are objectively wrong, and the times where they aren't there are still massive caveats. That person is Vaush. There's no way he actually believes all the crazy things he says. So in conclusion, consider that when you criticize Vaush for any of his media takes, you're supporting his anti-fascist efforts and thereby making the world a better place.

[@bertrandkane9678]

While I enjoy some true crime content it can very easily come across a gross or exploitative depending on the creator. While there are obviously cringey genre mashups such as "true crime makeup", "true crime ASMR" or "true crime mukbangs" (yes these are real), even supposedly "serious" true crime content creators can easily fall into this trap.

[@LordTonzilla]

Ok, but can we get a video on that D&D question?

[@luminousghosts]

I watch Eleanor Neale & That Chapter, dreading and a few others. They definitely call out the police bullshit.

[@misanthropicmusings4596]

Ranks of true crime are rife with stories of cops who cleared a suspect because they passed a polygraph only to have to come back months or years later to discover the suspect indeed did it.

[@hoathanatos6179]

Yeah. It wouldn't even work on someone with antisocial personality disorder since the areas of the brain that produce feelings of anxiety and fear are literally understimulated for them. They wouldn't cause a change in the standard if they lied while someone with severe anxiety problems would be all over the place and it wouldn't be possible to use one on them.

[@slingobobingo9322]

everything is bad if we're being honest. *blares murder noises through headphones*

[@churchofthelambofsat]

I've never encountered what you're describing after a year of being in the true crime fandom.

[@morg2040]

There are many subsets of the community I think you could overlook if you are not the main demographic I think he meant the people who cover the cases in a less-serious aspect and treat it like they are gossiping with a friend rather than recounting the case. Like there are ones who will joke around constantly and be sat there doing their makeup or having a whole mukbang There are also people in true crime who get involved in cases and try to solve it themselves or harass families of victims and such.

[@MissXHiem]

let's get started

[@lloroshastar6347]

Pfft, I say live and let live. It makes millions of women happy (why mainly women I am unsure), let them have nice things, the patriarchy is bad enough as it is.

[@shepherdbrooks7609]

I actually really want a Leftist Themes in D&D video though lmao

[@HRDRZ]

Wow great take Vaush. Thank you.

[@higgs_kitten9878]

I’m just writing a comment to say that in countries other than the US: train tracks are often electrified. If you do find a person unconscious on the tracks and try and lift them off you will have TWO unconscious people on the tracks. The correct course of action is to contact the railway to stop the train/deactivate the tracks and an ambulance to assist the injured. You should not touch them yourselves.

[@itsbeatrixie1616]

ever since monster dropped on Netflix, it has refueled my re-discovered hatred for true crime fans

[@FoxxyFire-HellFrost]

I listen to a podcast (Parcast) about serial killers who have already been sentenced. The podcasters aren't professionals so they read the cases as the events happened and make comments on the actions they took as a laypeople. For example, they'd lay out the facts of Ted Bundy, stating who he killed and when, then talk about what actions led up to that murder and how he may have felt or why he might've taken the actions he did. The podcasts are pretty short (5-7 minutes), so they keep it as concise as possible. But, still enjoyable.

[@theculling497]

Shit, That Chapter getting called out by Vaush. Let's give it a go!

[@thepotato513]

Okay, but when's the segment on how to run a dnd campaign with leftist themes?

[@RememberingGames]

True crime where they laugh at police expense: Small Town Murder

[@RevolutionaryLoser]

I think the fact that the inventor of the polygraph went on to write a comic about a dominatriz who's superponer was a lasso that forced people to tell the truth is evidence enough for how ineffective it was as a forensic tool.

[@RyanStorey1231]

I'll admit, I have a bit of a guilty pleasure when it comes to watching True Crime content on KZbin. A lot of that content has a bit of a right-wing flare to it and I realize that a lot of it is very exploitative. As well as insensitive to victims and their families. But it's like watching Law & Order. You know a lot of it is conservative propaganda, but damn it if it isn't entertaining.

[@yoredeerleader]

Obviously true crime is bad. True bad.

[@widdershinscryptid]

True Crime podcasts definitely have a niche beyond being salacious. They can be really useful for visibility on cases that the regular news won't bother with: anyone that's not a middle/upper class, pretty white woman. Visibility can (sometimes) push the cops to do their jobs.

[@void-creature]

*False Crime* podcast: About people who have been wrongfully convicted by police and why

[@vampirebot3265]

I always felt an Ick with true crime stuff. It’s just the way people seem to enjoy and get entertainment from hearing about what terrible things someone was a victim of that rubs me the wrong way. It will usually be centred on the perpetrator and not on the victim, which I find distasteful. To make the perpetrator the main character feels disrespectful to the victim.

[@Overonator]

It's kind of sick to exploit victims of murder in true crime podcasts for people's entertainment.

[@internetanon952]

You mean like Vaush laughing at the queen dying and saying bye bozo? It's all the same game.

[@Overonator]

@@internetanon952 That was probably overboard.

[@colt9836]

Define "entertainment." Do you think people who find true crime interesting to be "kind of sick"? How about the people who actually do this for a living? Are JSC or Matt Orchard "kind of sick"? It's called morbid curiosity, Kyle. As long as they giving the situation due respect, why does it matter?

[@Overonator]

@@colt9836 Exploiting tragedy

[@lx4079]

@@Overonator this whole channel is about exploiting the tragedy that is US politics

[@spaceelfdimp4852]

The worst offender is SVU In my opinion but its more of a cop show

[@Kellfiree]

Would 100% recommend Uncover Podcast by the CBC (Canadian broadcasting channel). It goes into the political reasons why these cases are unsolved/were mishandled.

[@jennifertodd1093]

Not me actively watching true crime only to get called out by this video!

[@realearthly2214]

Vaush has been having some bad takes lately huh

[@semirrahge]

WTYP GANG! Seriously, it's the perfect blend of social and historical awareness and juvenile irreverence to keep some of the horribly grim stories from being crushingly depressing (Texas City #1, Bhopal, Byford Dolphin come to mind).